Kirkland-Mollina, Garcia-Morales

[Upgrade Dave]

After watching last night's fights, a few thoughts came to my mind, chime in if you will



Kirkland was very lucky but I did think he was coming on and had figured out Mollina. His and Wolfe's honesty was refreshing.
I'm never mad at a ref for enforcing the rules but that fool went the whole fight letting Mollina grapple and push. I like the smothering but the blatant rulebreaking with no sanction was pissing me off.
They should fight again but I think James will be brawling from Rd 1 and we don't have to suffer through ten rounds of that shit.

While Erik was competitive, he did look old and fat. He should hold out for one fight with JMM in Texas or Mexico and walk away.
Garcia looked alright but he is not special. A truly special fighter would have finished Erik last night.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Kirkland has officially gone into my "Zab Judah" grouping. Meaning a fighter who has crazy talent but flaws that will prevent him from being great. I gave him a past with his knockout lose. I even gave him props in beating a limited Angulo. But it appears the real Kirkland was the one that lost a few fights ago. I think the excitement of his last win covered up what his potential really is. And that is basically is as a gatekeeper. He proved not to even be at the caliber of Molina. Sergio needs to make a fight with him if the Chavez fight fails through. Yes it is a smaller man. But if Kirk wants to make some money. He needs to do it before he loses at 154 again.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I disagree.

He, and his corner, made the tactical mistake of trying to box with a boxer and he was having a hard time making the adjustment when Wolfe was trying to get him to go back to his bread and butter, brawling. But when he did, he looked like the James Kirkland from the Angulo fight. I don't think Mollina was hurt from the first knockdown but I also don't think that was going to be the last time he went down.

 

[merce77]

Kirkland's biggest limitation is obviously his ring IQ and lack of it. Plus it wasn't like he made the adjustment when Anne told him - it took him about 9 rounds to finally get it through his dense skull. But I mean he was reaching, he looked slow, he let Molina bully him - and damn if he wasn't using his power hand to jab - c'mon son!! The uppercuts could have taken Molina down early. James seemed to me to take 2 steps backwards in this fight. My prediction is if and when they fight, Kirkland doesn't last 2 rounds with Sergio before being laid out.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Kirkland's biggest limitation is obviously his ring IQ and lack of it. Plus it wasn't like he made the adjustment when Anne told him - it took him about 9 rounds to finally get it through his dense skull. But I mean he was reaching, he looked slow, he let Molina bully him - and damn if he wasn't using his power hand to jab - c'mon son!! The uppercuts could have taken Molina down early. James seemed to me to take 2 steps backwards in this fight. My prediction is if and when they fight, Kirkland doesn't last 2 rounds with Sergio before being laid out.

I actually thought this could be a tough fight for Kirkland, because Molina is a decent boxer even though his resume doesn't reflect it. Kirkland is limit, but his strengths allow him to run through C list boxers. I would have loved to see how he would have look against Canelo, Sergio or Cotto, but this kills most of those fights. Kirkland needed to get this lesson, but it is really fucked up timing in his career.

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[Ninja05]

Mollina was beating him - but damn if he wasn't literally grappling and holding like a batch. The shit looked awful. Molina would hit and then grab and literally walk him to the other side of the ring.

By the way - Kirkland looked like he had cement in his shoes. This ninja has no side to side movement. I don't even think he can fully extend his arm. This muscle bound ninja looked like George Foreman in "Ali". Just wide ass punches. But damn if he didn't have Mollina fucked at the end.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Kirkland's biggest limitation is obviously his ring IQ and lack of it. Plus it wasn't like he made the adjustment when Anne told him - it took him about 9 rounds to finally get it through his dense skull. But I mean he was reaching, he looked slow, he let Molina bully him - and damn if he wasn't using his power hand to jab - c'mon son!! The uppercuts could have taken Molina down early. James seemed to me to take 2 steps backwards in this fight. My prediction is if and when they fight, Kirkland doesn't last 2 rounds with Sergio before being laid out.

Wolfe saw what was and wasn't working but James isn't mentally agile enough to make a change on the fly.
He's a good way from being ready to fight a guy with the type of movement of a Martinez.

I actually thought this could be a tough fight for Kirkland, because Molina is a decent boxer even though his resume doesn't reflect it. Kirkland is limit, but his strengths allow him to run through C list boxers. I would have loved to see how he would have look against Canelo, Sergio or Cotto, but this kills most of those fights. Kirkland needed to get this lesson, but it is really fucked up timing in his career.

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Kellerman made a similar observation during the fight. Because they've invested so much time and money into him, HBO will be quick to jump off his bandwagon after a bad performance, like they did Paul Williams after the Quintana fight.
Mollina did guarantee himself so more nationally televised fights.

Mollina was beating him - but damn if he wasn't literally grappling and holding like a batch. The shit looked awful. Molina would hit and then grab and literally walk him to the other side of the ring.

By the way - Kirkland looked like he had cement in his shoes. This ninja has no side to side movement. I don't even think he can fully extend his arm. This muscle bound ninja looked like George Foreman in "Ali". Just wide ass punches. But damn if he didn't have Mollina fucked at the end.

That shit was incredibly frustrating to me to watch, especially the grappling which the ref didn't even warn him about.



Yo! Gail Van Hoy should not judge another fight.

 

[merce77]

Wolfe saw what was and wasn't working but James isn't mentally agile enough to make a change on the fly.
He's a good way from being ready to fight a guy with the type of movement of a Martinez.



Kellerman made a similar observation during the fight. Because they've invested so much time and money into him, HBO will be quick to jump off his bandwagon after a bad performance, like they did Paul Williams after the Quintana fight.
Mollina did guarantee himself so more nationally televised fights.



That shit was incredibly frustrating to me to watch, especially the grappling which the ref didn't even warn him about.



Yo! Gail Van Hoy should not judge another fight.

I never yell at the TV while I'm watching fights. But between the ref and Kirkland they had my barkin at my shit on Saturday.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I never yell at the TV while I'm watching fights. But between the ref and Kirkland they had my barkin at my shit on Saturday.

Same. By the third round, I couldn't believe Mollina was still getting away with that blatant armbar.

Ann, despite appearances, is a patient woman because I fully expected her to explode when James wasn't following her instructions. But when she whispered in his ear something about "fight him like he's got your kids", I knew she found that nigga's switch and it looked like she did.

I think Mollina would have gotten away with his corner jumping in but the guy in Kirkland's corner was super animated when he saw the infraction and I think that led to the ref making the ruling.

 

[merce77]

Same. By the third round, I couldn't believe Mollina was still getting away with that blatant armbar.

Ann, despite appearances, is a patient woman because I fully expected her to explode when James wasn't following her instructions. But when she whispered in his ear something about "fight him like he's got your kids", I knew she found that nigga's switch and it looked like she did.

I think Mollina would have gotten away with his corner jumping in but the guy in Kirkland's corner was super animated when he saw the infraction and I think that led to the ref making the ruling.

Yep, I pointed that out to my dad and the ruling was technically correct but very disappointing.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Yep, I pointed that out to my dad and the ruling was technically correct but very disappointing.

I can't knock a ref for following the rules but this was the same ref letting everything go for 10 rounds so he should have let that go too.

 

[merce77]

I can't knock a ref for following the rules but this was the same ref letting everything go for 10 rounds so he should have let that go too.

Same thing I said, except mine came out more like
"BULLSHIT!!!!"

 

[O.J PIMPSON]

And that's the guy ya'll were telling me would beat Mayweather??!!!

 

[merce77]

And that's the guy ya'll were telling me would beat Mayweather??!!!

Yeah, I take that back.

 

[O.J PIMPSON]

Yeah, I take that back.

LMAO!!!!

 

[Alaskanredman]

And that's the guy ya'll were telling me would beat Mayweather??!!!

yeah... I admit I was completely off on that one, but short of Floyd getting old... quick. I see no one beating him.

What is need is a relentless, powerful brawler that can't be stopped.... A guy that would force Floyd into a brawl for his life. That isn't happening.

I try not to judge a fighter off one bad fight, but when talking about opponents for Floyd every flaw has to be under a microscope.

 

[merce77]

yeah... I admit I was completely off on that one, but short of Floyd getting old... quick. I see no one beating him.

What is need is a relentless, powerful brawler that can't be stopped.... A guy that would force Floyd into a brawl for his life. That isn't happening.

I try not to judge a fighter off one bad fight, but when talking about opponents for Floyd every flaw has to be under a microscope.

Pretty much.

 

[O.J PIMPSON]

Don't think there is anyone out there right now like u described. there is no Marvin Hagler. No Hearns or Sugar Ray to match his ability. So unless he gets old in the ring...........

 

[Alaskanredman]

Don't think there is anyone out there right now like u described. there is no Marvin Hagler. No Hearns or Sugar Ray to match his ability. So unless he gets old in the ring...........

agreed... I made the mistake of seeing Hagler-like qualities in Kirkland, but Hagler was a fucking machine that wasn't shook up like this and definitely not by a guy on Molina's level.

 

[merce77]

Damn. Ya'll mentioned Hagler and Kirkland in the same sentence. I.................................damn.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I disagree.

He, and his corner, made the tactical mistake of trying to box with a boxer and he was having a hard time making the adjustment when Wolfe was trying to get him to go back to his bread and butter, brawling. But when he did, he looked like the James Kirkland from the Angulo fight. I don't think Mollina was hurt from the first knockdown but I also don't think that was going to be the last time he went down.

Which is fine. But he had been exposed. It is more than a tactical misstep. This is something that he has made aware to all future foes. He has shown them that he is not a next level fighter. Sergio starts slow and finds that second gear. Because he is at that elite level. Kirkland doesn't have that luxury and that makes an inviting option for fighters that are on that level. I lost faith in this dude. Where are you with him?

 

[merce77]

Which is fine. But he had been exposed. It is more than a tactical misstep. This is something that he has made aware to all future foes. He has shown them that he is not a next level fighter. Sergio starts slow and finds that second gear. Because he is at that elite level. Kirkland doesn't have that luxury and that makes an inviting option for fighters that are on that level. I lost faith in this dude. Where are you with him?

I agree with a lot of what you said but the fact that is he's vulnerable and still exciting when matched with the right foe (a guy not determined to box and hold). Also his penchant for being dangerous and explosive in any round coupled with his resiliency will keep him on TV. But yeah, I thought I would see a marked improvement in his skills by this time especially with him being back with Anne but I guess he's not that dude. I can see him doing much better against guys like Canelo or Cotto - fighters who will brawl and open up when pushed but guys like Sergio or Floyd will take him apart easily.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I agree with a lot of what you said but the fact that is he's vulnerable and still exciting when matched with the right foe (a guy not determined to box and hold). Also his penchant for being dangerous and explosive in any round coupled with his resiliency will keep him on TV. But yeah, I thought I would see a marked improvement in his skills by this time especially with him being back with Anne but I guess he's not that dude. I can see him doing much better against guys like Canelo or Cotto - fighters who will brawl and open up when pushed but guys like Sergio or Floyd will take him apart easily.

Exciting like Gatti was. If they put him in matches he has a chance to make fight of the year type fights, I will watch him. But if they try to sell him as an elite fighter I will pass. He isn't ready for Canelo, Cotto, or PBF. He needs a Paul Williams match up next. At least that is my opinion.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Damn. Ya'll mentioned Hagler and Kirkland in the same sentence. I.................................damn.

I said Hagler-like, it's obvious Hagler was a better complete boxer.

 

[patscorpio]

real talk ive never heard the type of shit that ann wolfe was talking that night from a cornerman ever...shit i expected her to take james's gloves off herself and box molina lol

 

[Alaskanredman]

I agree with a lot of what you said but the fact that is he's vulnerable and still exciting when matched with the right foe (a guy not determined to box and hold). Also his penchant for being dangerous and explosive in any round coupled with his resiliency will keep him on TV. But yeah, I thought I would see a marked improvement in his skills by this time especially with him being back with Anne but I guess he's not that dude. I can see him doing much better against guys like Canelo or Cotto - fighters who will brawl and open up when pushed but guys like Sergio or Floyd will take him apart easily.

Kirkland didn't "look" like the usual Kirkland... holding or not... He had the wrong tactic or something was going on with him mentally or maybe even physically, but he would not adjust for shit and Molina did what I expected him to do. He boxed, but Molina knows he had a powerful guy in front of him so he tied him up as much as possible and used his movement to get out the way. The ref should have taken a point for holding but even if he did and w/o the ending... Molina was comfortably ahead and all he had to do was stay on his feet.

If this Kirkland shows up in front of Canelo or Cotto... it would be a long night for him. With that said this is the second time he has looked like this so it isn't just a bad night type thing. It's a vulnerability that can be exposed by a good boxer. Cotto would probably be the best opponent for Kirkland at this point, but Cotto doesn't need to give a shot. Kirkland will get back on TV, but he will have to find another Angulo to raise his stock again to even be considered for a big payday.

 

[Alaskanredman]

real talk ive never heard the type of shit that ann wolfe was talking that night from a cornerman ever...shit i expected her to take james's gloves off herself and box molina lol

She was telling him everything he needed to hear.

I don't know what else a fucking trainer could do.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Same thing I said, except mine came out more like
"BULLSHIT!!!!"

And that's the guy ya'll were telling me would beat Mayweather??!!!

I would take it back but it would go against my nature so let me think of an angle and I'll come back.










Okay (watched a little Ed Schultz, ate a bowl of Cheerios with strawberries, took a nap)
I did say he needed some more fights and the earliest he could even get Mayweather would be next year and he would be more experienced and Mayweather would be older.
Kirkland needed to get dazzled a little by a superior boxer much like Mayweather had to get blitzed by a pressure body puncher to get better. Now we'll see what happens in a rematch with Mollina.

How was that?

yeah... I admit I was completely off on that one, but short of Floyd getting old... quick. I see no one beating him.

What is need is a relentless, powerful brawler that can't be stopped.... A guy that would force Floyd into a brawl for his life. That isn't happening.

I try not to judge a fighter off one bad fight, but when talking about opponents for Floyd every flaw has to be under a microscope.

True. Kirkland getting caught with right hands had me flashing back to Floyd popping Ortiz with overhand rights with impunity.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Kirkland would be a fool to fight Molina again. If this fight went the distance. He would be 1-2 against non elite level fighters. To me that speaks volumes of what to expect from him. Maybe he should be a middleweight. Because the weight loss has been put up as an excuse. But I see more serious issues that are not being addressed. Maybe he needs freddie or nacho. But I see the same dude with no improvement at all.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Kirkland would be a fool to fight Molina again. If this fight went the distance. He would be 1-2 against non elite level fighters. To me that speaks volumes of what to expect from him. Maybe he should be a middleweight. Because the weight loss has been put up as an excuse. But I see more serious issues that are not being addressed. Maybe he needs freddie or nacho. But I see the same dude with no improvement at all.

With this type of non-win win, he should, and probably has to, fight Mollina again.

Neither Freddie or Nacho have looked like elite trainers lately and he's already tried not working with Ann Wolfe so it's not the trainer that's faulty.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Kirkland would be a fool to fight Molina again. If this fight went the distance. He would be 1-2 against non elite level fighters. To me that speaks volumes of what to expect from him. Maybe he should be a middleweight. Because the weight loss has been put up as an excuse. But I see more serious issues that are not being addressed. Maybe he needs freddie or nacho. But I see the same dude with no improvement at all.

No, he would be a fool not to fight him again. Running from Molina to go where? There are guys like Molina all over the fucking place if he can't beat those type of fighters... His career is over anyways. He should go back to the drawing board and figure out what happen. If he loses like this again then that is what it is. It may be a weight issue but fuck that... He's already ran from one unavenged "L" so he should get in the best shape he can get in and stand his ground with a new game plan.

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[Jordan Diddy Buk]

With this type of non-win win, he should, and probably has to, fight Mollina again.

Neither Freddie or Nacho have looked like elite trainers lately and he's already tried not working with Ann Wolfe so it's not the trainer that's faulty.

I think he knows he got beat. He got out boxed and most likely the results would be the same. He should look at the loser of the shane-canelo fight next. I would be blown away if they fight again. It makes no sense for kirkland. It is to risky.

Freddie and Nacho are still elite. No other trainers are even close to doing what they are doing.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I think he knows he got beat. He got out boxed and most likely the results would be the same. He should look at the loser of the shane-canelo fight next. I would be blown away if they fight again. It makes no sense for kirkland. It is to risky.

Freddie and Nacho are still elite. No other trainers are even close to doing what they are doing.

He acknowledged he was behind and Wolfe did too. But there have been guys who were beaten soundly in fights and won rematches. Since he hasn't avenged the Ishida loss, he can't walk away from this one.
C'mon man, I thought we were in favor of guys looking for tough fights? If he loses, he loses but he shouldn't avoid a fight because it's going to be tough. No one is going to offer him a better fight with this one hanging around his neck.

Freddie and Nacho are considered elite based on what they have done not on anything they've done lately. Just like a fighter, the barometer I go by is their last fight and Freddie's fighters haven't looked all that impressive lately. The same holds for Nacho.

 

[merce77]

I think he knows he got beat. He got out boxed and most likely the results would be the same. He should look at the loser of the shane-canelo fight next. I would be blown away if they fight again. It makes no sense for kirkland. It is to risky.

Freddie and Nacho are still elite. No other trainers are even close to doing what they are doing.

But it seems you're forgetting that Molina was allowed by the ref to fight in his comfort zone all night. When Kirkland finally started doing what Anne wanted he dropped Molina rather easily. Had he been popping the jab and countering with the uppercut anytime Molina got close, that fight wouldn't have gone 6 or 7 rounds. I guarantee you that if a rematch happens, Molina will not be able to get away with everything he did, the reason why he looked so great was that he was allowed to do so, plus the fact that Kirkland seems a bit bull headed.

As far as trainers, imho neither Freddie or Nacho are that far ahead of the pack right now as you make it seem. Khan and Manny have both looked like shit lately and were given no advice to switch up in between rounds and Nacho telling Marquez that he had the last Pac fight won in the 11th and 12th was just . And didn't Linares get ko'd in his first fight with Freddie?

But I completely agree that Paul Williams is an ideal opponent for Kirkland, I was gonna bring it up earlier but you beat me to it.

 

[Alaskanredman]

But it seems you're forgetting that Molina was allowed by the ref to fight in his comfort zone all night. When Kirkland finally started doing what Anne wanted he dropped Molina rather easily. Had he been popping the jab and countering with the uppercut anytime Molina got close, that fight wouldn't have gone 6 or 7 rounds. I guarantee you that if a rematch happens, Molina will not be able to get away with everything he did, the reason why he looked so great was that he was allowed to do so, plus the fact that Kirkland seems a bit bull headed.

As far as trainers, imho neither Freddie or Nacho are that far ahead of the pack right now as you make it seem. Khan and Manny have both looked like shit lately and were given no advice to switch up in between rounds and Nacho telling Marquez that he had the last Pac fight won in the 11th and 12th was just . And didn't Linares get ko'd in his first fight with Freddie?

But I completely agree that Paul Williams is an ideal opponent for Kirkland, I was gonna bring it up earlier but you beat me to it.

I agree somewhat... I don't know if it would be an easy fight for Kirkland to adjust and dominate in, but talking like dude has no chance of turning it around is crazy.

As far as trainers, Wolfe didn't fuck up in the corner and there is no way of knowing if pre-fight training was fucked up, but I see no reason to replace her.

Paul Williams is a good opponent for anyone with a powerful overhand right, but I don't think beating him means much at this point.