Joe Johnson

[xfactor]

Just finished catching the end of the Hawks @ Bucks game and Joe Johnson racked up 17 assists in the game.

JJ's been one of my favorite players since he played at Arkansas and I'm glad he's getting a chance to get some shine, eventhough its with the Hawks.

The question is, in a diluted pool of quality NBA shooting guards, where does Joe Johnson rank?

In my opinion, I'd put him at #4 with the stock rising...

 

[TimRock]

Just finished catching the end of the Hawks @ Bucks game and Joe Johnson racked up 17 assists in the game.

JJ's been one of my favorite players since he played at Arkansas and I'm glad he's getting a chance to get some shine, eventhough its with the Hawks.

The question is, in a diluted pool of quality NBA shooting guards, where does Joe Johnson rank?

In my opinion, I'd put him at #4 with the stock rising...

who do youb have at 1, 2 and 3?

 

[TimRock]

Just finished catching the end of the Hawks @ Bucks game and Joe Johnson racked up 17 assists in the game.

JJ's been one of my favorite players since he played at Arkansas and I'm glad he's getting a chance to get some shine, eventhough its with the Hawks.

The question is, in a diluted pool of quality NBA shooting guards, where does Joe Johnson rank?

In my opinion, I'd put him at #4 with the stock rising...

who do you have at 1, 2 and 3?

 

[DCMC]

Yeah, i'm a Hornets fan, but I watch a lot of Hawks games since i'm down here.

Joe & Josh Childress have been the most consistent players for them this year.

If the Hawks get a legit PF, they'll be a playoff team next year.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Well, it's kind of hard to rank the guy, since the line between
one guards and two has been forever blurred. I would rank
Wade above him if he were strictly an off guard, but Wade plays
the point too.

Also, while LeBron is a SF on the roster, he is for all intensive
purposes, a SG as well....JJ is closer to this type of player. A
hybrid SF/SG/PG. Definitely on the rise (and why I was trying
to trade for him earlier this season)

 

[RunawaySlave]

Yeah, i'm a Hornets fan, but I watch a lot of Hawks games since i'm down here.

Joe & Josh Childress have been the most consistent players for them this year.

If the Hawks get a legit PF, they'll be a playoff team next year.

I think the Hawks have what they need to compete already
They just need Woodson to make a choice on which 8 to
go with and stick with it. Larry Brown has the same problem

Also, they need a real center. Fuck that Zaza mofo and his
Mayor McCheese head

I think the Hawks gonna let Al Harrington walk. But they should
try to get a good big man in return. An intangible guy. Hawks
got enough cats to put the ball in the hole. They need a young
Mutumbo or even a young John Salley. Somebody to smack the
shit out of penetrators shots

 

[DCMC]

I think the Hawks have what they need to compete already
They just need Woodson to make a choice on which 8 to
go with and stick with it. Larry Brown has the same problem

Also, they need a real center. Fuck that Zaza mofo and his
Mayor McCheese head

I think the Hawks gonna let Al Harrington walk. But they should
try to get a good big man in return. An intangible guy. Hawks
got enough cats to put the ball in the hole. They need a young
Mutumbo or even a young John Salley. Somebody to smack the
shit out of penetrators shots

Zaza is cool, imo (Considering the lack of quality C's in the league)

I agree they need a tougher guy in the middle though.

Yeah, they need to let Al go.

He was cool for a lot of games, but I think he's jealous of the attention Joe's been getting lately.

 

[TrojansFan]

I like Joe Johnson, but top 4? Not in my book. Not even close.

Here's my top 5 SGs in the NBA right now... (in no particular order)
Dwayne Wade
Kobe Bryant
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Tracy McGrady

I don't think anybody in their right mind picks Joe Johnson over those 5!

I group Joe Johnson in the next 6...(once again in no particular order)
Jason Richardson
Joe Johnson
Manu Ginobili
Michael Redd
Richard Hamilton
Vince Carter


Now, to address the idiot that thinks the Hawks are a playoff team next year ...

The hawks are a long way from being a legit playoff contender! The Hawks have holes everywhere except Small Forward. The Hawks don't have a quality Center, Power Forward, or Point Guard! What they do have are 3 good small forwards Childress, Smith, and Williams (I am assuming Al Harrington leaves in FA and Williams adjust to the NAB game soon); A back-up center Pachulia with no depth; no legit PF on the roster at all; a back-up PG Lue with no depth; and an All-Star caliber SG Johnson with no depth. How can you think this team is anywhere close to competeing???
There is a reason that only 2 teams in the conference have worse records (and to make matters worse those two teams are an injury plagued expansion team, Bobcats, and the current laughing stock of the NBA, the Knicks).

 

[RunawaySlave]

I think the Hawks are closer than you think.
Smith is a steadily improving morph between
the 3 and the 4. He is neither a true small nor
power forward. But he IS a forward and he is
a shot blocker/rebounder

Salim will make a nice morph between the 1
and the 2, depending on the opposing 2. Not
a starter (yet), but an explosive bench player

Johnson is ALSO a morph...but between the
1,2 and 3 spots. No where near a true point
but can handle PG duties against bigger guards
like LeBron, Josh Howard, Paul Pierce

Josh Childress is ALSO a morph between the 2
and 3 spots. Not a true guard, but can handle
certain duties against the bigger guys.

Last but not least there is Marvin Williams. Not
a true PF, but is only 19 and NO ONE knows how
much growing he has left. Wherever he lands, he
is still developing and will probably also morph
between the 3 and 4 spots


The Hawks have a very interesting array of talent
What they need is the coach to make a choice.....
Stop fucking around with 10-12 man rotations

That shit does NOT work. Ask Larry. Wait don't
ask that guy, he still thinks it will work

Yeah, the Hawks are shitty now, but I have seen
first hand how subtracting ONE negative influence
can catapult a team into contention


Any Nets fan can see it happening. Ask Larry, lol

 

[xfactor]

I agree with what Sista Luva said being that there is a fine line between PG and SG now with so many short SGs (or what the media likes to refer to as 'combo' guards) but there are still so natural shooting guards in the league that just have a more all around style (good rebounders and passers) to their game thats makes them more versatile than the traditional SG but I wouldnt call them a PG... or even go as far to call them a combo guard.

who do you have at 1, 2 and 3?

The players you named all play SG yes but the determining factor I used in choosing my list was what position that player was listed in the STARTING LINEUP and that would discount players such as LeBron James, (Ronald Murray) Paul Pierce, (Wally Szcerbiak) and T-Whack(David Wesley) from the list.

So my list of Top 5 is (in order)...

1) Dwyane Wade
2) Vince Carter
3) Ray Allen
4) Joe Johnson
5) Michael Redd

 

[xfactor]

The Hawks have a very interesting array of talent
What they need is the coach to make a choice.....
Stop fucking around with 10-12 man rotations

Coach Woodson has shortened the rotation to 8-9 players but as it was mentioned, their strongest talent is all at the same position.


They are set at SG with Johnson. They'll probably let Harrington walk because he'll demand the $$$ but once he realizes he'll never be a #1, he could be a good complimentary player to Johnson.

Zaza Pachulia sucks and should be a back-up C at best but he's all they got so he has to play. I dont know why Woodson starts Royal Ivey at PG but only plays him 10 - 15 minutes a game.

They have a strong young bench in Salim, Marvin Williams, and Lue (when he gets healthy).

Their lineup should be -

PG-Ivey/Lue
SG-Johnson
SF-Smith/Childress (depending on matchups)
PF-Harrington
C- ???

Bench

Smith/Childress
Stoudamire
Ivey/Lue
Williams
Pachulia

They get a good C and/or a true STARTING point then they can definitely make the playoffs... So yes, they are only 1 player away from doing it.

 

[TrojansFan]

I think the Hawks are closer than you think.
Smith is a steadily improving morph between
the 3 and the 4. He is neither a true small nor
power forward. But he IS a forward and he is
a shot blocker/rebounder

Salim will make a nice morph between the 1
and the 2, depending on the opposing 2. Not
a starter (yet), but an explosive bench player

Johnson is ALSO a morph...but between the
1,2 and 3 spots. No where near a true point
but can handle PG duties against bigger guards
like LeBron, Josh Howard, Paul Pierce

Josh Childress is ALSO a morph between the 2
and 3 spots. Not a true guard, but can handle
certain duties against the bigger guys.

Last but not least there is Marvin Williams. Not
a true PF, but is only 19 and NO ONE knows how
much growing he has left. Wherever he lands, he
is still developing and will probably also morph
between the 3 and 4 spots


The Hawks have a very interesting array of talent
What they need is the coach to make a choice.....
Stop fucking around with 10-12 man rotations

That shit does NOT work. Ask Larry. Wait don't
ask that guy, he still thinks it will work

Yeah, the Hawks are shitty now, but I have seen
first hand how subtracting ONE negative influence
can catapult a team into contention


Any Nets fan can see it happening. Ask Larry, lol

You can't be serious!!!

How can you think Josh Smith is a 4? at 6-9 225 he can not guard any PF in the league (think about it Duncan, Nowitzki, O'Neal, Brand, Wallace, etc.)

Stoudamire is a good shooter, but a 6'1" he is a way undersized 2 and he doesn't have any playing qualitys of a 1! Good bench player? I'll agree.

Johnson being able to handle the 1,2, & 3? I agree! But unfortuantely, he can't play all 3 at once.

Josh Childress I agree can play 2 or 3, but if he is playing at the 2 then you have no outside shooting on the floor.

Marvin Williams is still developing I agree, but he is developing hopefully into a good a 3! He doesn't have enough growth left in him to grow into a 4, he currently is way too light in the ass and too short.

Once again, take another look at the talent the Hawks have or lack there of, this time is not even close and has needs everywhere except for wherever the Hawks ultimately decide where to play Joe Johnson. The fact alone that they have had to played him at 1, 2, and 3 this year lets you know just how weak the supporting cast is around him!

Look at any of the playoff teams in the East, and except for Joe Johnson, nobody else on this roster could start on any of them. That should help you put into perspective the talent on the Hawks!

 

[RunawaySlave]

Josh Smith couldn't hold Chris Bosh?? He couldn't guard Carlos Boozer??
Lamar Odom?? Nenad Krstic (don't answer that one)....

Let's see.....Al Jefferson?? Ryan Gomes?? Kenny Thomas?? Chris Wilcox
or Nick Collison?? Zack Randolph?? Kenyon Martin?? Should I go on??

For that matter, don't see how you could add Nitwitski to the list, being
that he would never even go to the paint against Smith. He would just
drift around the perimeter like he did against Bruce Bowen

The only matchup that Smith would have difficulty with is Duncan. And
Duncan give ALL PFs trouble. Not just the undersized ones. Duncan
isn't really a PF anyway.

Yeah, Josh would have problems with the longer, rougher PFs (maybe)
but in a couple of years, after he gains weight (age), he won't be 225
anymore and he is already among the leaders in block shots

Duncan, KG, maybe Jermaine O'Neal and Elton Brand may give him
some problems right now....

Please don't mistake this for me liking Josh Smith, I actually don't like
the guy. But he does have the potential and is getting better

 

[TrojansFan]

Josh Smith couldn't hold Chris Bosh?? He couldn't guard Carlos Boozer??
Lamar Odom?? Nenad Krstic (don't answer that one)....

Let's see.....Al Jefferson?? Ryan Gomes?? Kenny Thomas?? Chris Wilcox
or Nick Collison?? Zack Randolph?? Kenyon Martin?? Should I go on??

For that matter, don't see how you could add Nitwitski to the list, being
that he would never even go to the paint against Smith. He would just
drift around the perimeter like he did against Bruce Bowen

The only matchup that Smith would have difficulty with is Duncan. And
Duncan give ALL PFs trouble. Not just the undersized ones. Duncan
isn't really a PF anyway.

Let me answer that.
Can he hold Chris Bosh, Lamar Odom (eventhough he is SF not a PF), Kenyon Martin... HELL NO!
As for the rest of the names you mention... who cares? None of them are in the playoffs. You are making my point for me. If those are the PFs you think he can play with, then you have a PF that is not playoff caliber.

I actually like the Hawks franchise (been a fan since Dominique Wilkins) I have no reason to bash them, but they aren't close. Compare their roster to current playoff teams in East position by position (using Joe Johnson at only one position) and you will see what I mean.

 

[TrojansFan]

So my list of Top 5 is (in order)...

1) Dwyane Wade
2) Vince Carter
3) Ray Allen
4) Joe Johnson
5) Michael Redd

Are you really saying you would take Vince Carter (who plays no defense nor makes players around him any better) and Michael Redd (who plays no defense nor makes players around him any better) over Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant and Paul Pierce (who is listed as SG)??? Come on now? Please explain to me the qualities in their game that you feel make them better SGs than Kobe, Tracy, or Paul. If you really think Joe Johnson belongs there, I can see an argument for that, but I just don't see any logical way to place Carter and Redd on that list. Do you have justification or are you just hating???

 

[xfactor]

Are you really saying you would take Vince Carter (who plays no defense nor makes players around him any better) and Michael Redd (who plays no defense nor makes players around him any better) over Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant and Paul Pierce (who is listed as SG)??? Come on now?

The players you named all play SG yes but the determining factor I used in choosing my list was what position that player was listed in the STARTING LINEUP and that would discount players such as LeBron James, (Ronald Murray) Paul Pierce, (Wally Szcerbiak) and T-Whack(David Wesley) from the list.

Why are you asking questions about the criteria when I already stated the main criteria before I even posted my list?

But to answer your question... Would I take VC or Michael Redd over Wobe or T-Whack? Yes. That is why I made the list. I considered all factors about their games and impacts on the game before making my decision.

Please explain to me the qualities in their game that you feel make them better SGs than Kobe, Tracy, or Paul. If you really think Joe Johnson belongs there, I can see an argument for that, but I just don't see any logical way to place Carter and Redd on that list. Do you have justification or are you just hating???

Paul Pierce IMO is one of the more underrated players out of the group named. I dont get to see Boston games much because I'm not in the Northeast so I can only comment on what I've seen (which is limited) and I would take Pierce over Wobe anyday of the week. I would also take him over McGrady.

As far as Carter... I lost respect for him when he tanked that half a season in Toronto so he could get traded but the guy's talent and athleticism is what puts him in the upper echelon of NBA SGs. Michael Redd's ability to shoot the ball with accuracy off the dribble, off screens, and his quick release are what make me admire his game. He is the prototypical shooting guard.

McGrady is more of a small forward than shooting guard but he is a good all around player. He can score, drive and dish, but he doesnt elevate his teammates to a higher level (something almost all players that came out of high school cant do). If you want to group him in the SG category, I would place him over Wobe as well.

What's funny to me is that you claim Wobe is the best SG in the league (and possibly the history of the game behind Jordan) yet the same things you said about VC, Redd, etc... (doesnt play D, doesnt make his teammates better) are two of the MAIN characteristics of Bryant's game. Just because the guy will get steals because he doesnt man-up on D and tries to freelance by sticking in passing lanes does not make him a good defender. That is not good D because its a bad gamble and almost always handicaps his teammates.

And the second part about making teammates better... If anything, Bryant makes his teammates worse. Did you not see how he lead the the lakers to a 34-48 with the exact same core that a then ROOKIE Dwyane Wade lead to the Eastern Conference Semifinals?

Wobe has talent no doubt. He can get to the rack, he has great range on his jumper, and he's a good FT shooter. That's about it. His lack of intelligent play is so great that he doesnt even deserve to be on the court more than 30 minutes a game. If it werent for the media hype, he'd be a 6th man or he'd have to play second fiddle to another player (where he is much more effective because he cant lead a team)

Another thing you said was that nobody complained about Wobe's shot selection and selfishness during the time they won championships? Well I dont know where you were but I know plenty of people that did. And you said you know of NBA players saying he is the best player in the NBA? Their name wouldnt happen to be Kobe Bryant would it?

 

[TrojansFan]

Hey X,

Arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall, so I will leave the opinions out of this post and simply state unrefutable facts...

1. Paul Pierce is listed a SG in Boston's starting lineup - so you contradict your own criteria.

2. Kobe Bryant has 5 NBA All-Defensive team honors. The man can play "D". Vince Carter and Michael Redd have 0 NBA defensive team honors between them. Kobe also has a better career FG% and APG than both.

@ the hatred

cranrab,

are u in agreement with your buddy x faker that Michael Redd & Vince Carter are better SGs than Kobe, T-Mac, and Paul Pierce???

 

[cranrab]

before i respond to the question directed specifically to me, thought i'd log a couple observations...

this thread was started by XF and made NO reference to tobe AT ALL... but oddly enough, someone found a way to make tobe a subject of this thread...

also, in this thread, XF has stated his selection criteria and submitted his preference of top 5 SGs, but is now accused of 'hating' (or rather, hatred)... god forbid that individuals be allowed their own choice in the matter...

cranrab,

are u in agreement with your buddy x faker that Michael Redd & Vince Carter are better SGs than Kobe, T-Mac, and Paul Pierce???

TF,

i don't see (in this thread) where XF actually made that specific statement, but i could not agree with it, because i find it to be flawed.

IMO, vince carter, tracy mcgrady, paul pierce and tobe are all true SF, not SGs. by default, michael redd therefore MUST be the best (and only) choice for SG.

 

[xfactor]

Hey X,

Arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall, so I will leave the opinions out of this post and simply state unrefutable facts...

1. Paul Pierce is listed a SG in Boston's starting lineup - so you contradict your own criteria.

[FRAME]http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2006031614[/FRAME]

It's kinda hard to debate with guys when even when they get hit with the concrete TRUTH they still are in denial. FYI in most box scores, the starting line-up is usually listed like this...

SF
PF
C
PG
SG

And Pierce started at SF next to Ryan Gomes who started at PF.

2. Kobe Bryant has 5 NBA All-Defensive team honors. The man can play "D". Vince Carter and Michael Redd have 0 NBA defensive team honors between them. Kobe also has a better career FG% and APG than both.

@ the hatred.

So the coaches voted him in(less times than you claim I might add)... Does that mean he's a top defender? I highly doubt it. Just another NBA popularity contest. Im sure you believe Steve Nash was also more important to his team than Shaquille O'Neal was last year huh?

That higher FG% and APG goes with having the luxury of playing with Shaquille O'Neal.

Vince Carter also has a higher career PPG, RPG, 3 point percentage, and BPG average than Wobe, with LESS TO's per game. And I dont think you want to even put playoff stats in the mix...But then again such Wobe is such a clutch performer and the playoffs are the ultimate test, Im sure his stats will make VC's look like a rookie's...


I dont expect Michael Redd's APG or RPG to be up around Bryant because 1) They have different roles and 2) Redd doesnt dominate the ball nearly as much as Bryant does.

 

[TrojansFan]

[FRAME]http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2006031614[/FRAME]

It's kinda hard to debate with guys when even when they get hit with the concrete TRUTH they still are in denial. FYI in most box scores, the starting line-up is usually listed like this...

SF
PF
C
PG
SG

And Pierce started at SF next to Ryan Gomes who started at PF.



So the coaches voted him in(less times than you claim I might add)... Does that mean he's a top defender? I highly doubt it. Just another NBA popularity contest. Im sure you believe Steve Nash was also more important to his team than Shaquille O'Neal was last year huh?

QUOTE]

You say box scores usually lists the starting line-up in that fashion? Well, I hope usually doesn't mean always, because if so you are telling me Wally Szerbiack started at PG. Try watching games sometimes instead of just looking at box scores online and maybe you will see what position Pierce starts at.

Kobe was selected to the NBA defensive team 5 times. 3 1st team, 2nd team, look it up. Why would the coaches be involved in a so-called popularity contest (which the NBA All-Star starters are)? They are the main ones harping on playing the game the right way no popularity contest there. But they are the ones who have to coach and game plan against him and they know how good of a player he is.

Lastly yes I thought Nash was more important to his team than Shaq. Shaq isn't even the MVP of his own team... Dwayne Wade is!

 

[RunawaySlave]

Damnit
If you're gonna quote the man, take the damn Yahoo page out
first.
I knew Kobe was gonna appear in this thread. Therefore, I am
now dropping out

Let me just say on the subject of positions....There are a bunch
of players who could be classified as either a SG or SF. The positions
have become somewhat skewed in the Michael Jordan one-on-one
basketball age

 

[xfactor]

You say box scores usually lists the starting line-up in that fashion? Well, I hope usually doesn't mean always, because if so you are telling me Wally Szerbiack started at PG. Try watching games sometimes instead of just looking at box scores online and maybe you will see what position Pierce starts at.

If you saw the game on TNT last night (Which I surely missed b/c I'm only a box score reader ) I'm sure its no way I wouldve seen Paul Pierce listed at the top of the starting lineup as a forward in the starting line-up graphic. But maybe they just mixed his name up with Wally Szczerbiak's huh?

Kobe was selected to the NBA defensive team 5 times. 3 1st team, 2nd team, look it up. Why would the coaches be involved in a so-called popularity contest (which the NBA All-Star starters are)? They are the main ones harping on playing the game the right way no popularity contest there. But they are the ones who have to coach and game plan against him and they know how good of a player he is.

There are much better defenders in the league than Bryant that would never get a mention in an award such as being on the All NBA Defensive Team. Bruce Bowen is claimed to be the 'best on the ball defender' in the league and he just started to make the team in '01.

Yeah, I take it that it isnt a coicidence that Bryant got selected to the ALL-D Team during the time that the lakers were making their championship run. But I am 100% sure that that had nothing to do with the voting in the coach's eyes and he is a lock down defender on D and 'he always guards the opposing team's best player'

Lastly yes I thought Nash was more important to his team than Shaq. Shaq isn't even the MVP of his own team... Dwayne Wade is!

I'm not even going to respond to this one because now you are trying to undermine Shaq which clearly states that all you do is look at the statistics on a player's NBA.com page.

 

[cranrab]

a question

Lastly yes I thought Nash was more important to his team than Shaq. Shaq isn't even the MVP of his own team... Dwayne Wade is!

TF,

you are not the first (and probably not the last) to make such a claim.

but your position has me puzzled... what is the foundation of your position?

the miami heat without shaquille o'neal on the floor this season are 9-9 (.500)

the miami heat with shaquille o'neal on the floor this season are 35-12 (.745)

for perspective:

a current winning percentage of .745 is good enough for the 4th BEST RECORD OVERALL in the NBA...

a current winning percentage of .745 is better than the regular season mark the miami heat set last season (59-23 is .720)

a current winning percentage of .500 is worse than the regular season mark the miami heat set pre-shaquille o'neal (42-40 is .512)

 

[TrojansFan]

Re: a question

TF,

you are not the first (and probably not the last) to make such a claim.

but your position has me puzzled... what is the foundation of your position?

the miami heat without shaquille o'neal on the floor this season are 9-9 (.500)

the miami heat with shaquille o'neal on the floor this season are 35-12 (.745)

for perspective:

a current winning percentage of .745 is good enough for the 4th BEST RECORD OVERALL in the NBA...

a current winning percentage of .745 is better than the regular season mark the miami heat set last season (59-23 is .720)

a current winning percentage of .500 is worse than the regular season mark the miami heat set pre-shaquille o'neal (42-40 is .512)

Cran,

You asked for the foundation for my position...
Last year's playoffs. Without Shaquille O'Neal the Heat were 2-0, without Dwayne Wade they were 0-1 and got blew out miserably! Clearly Shaq could not carry the Heat without Wade, but Wade did just fine without Shaq. Don't get me wrong, Shaq is crucial to that team but Wade is the most important player!!! (The same logic you used to prove to me that Odom is more valuable to the Lakers than Kobe)

 

[cranrab]

Re: a question

Without Shaquille O'Neal the Heat were 2-0, without Dwayne Wade they were 0-1 and got blew out miserably! Clearly Shaq could not carry the Heat without Wade, but Wade did just fine without Shaq. (The same logic you used to prove to me that Odom is more valuable to the Lakers than Kobe)[/B]

TF,

did you miss this part?

the miami heat without shaquille o'neal on the floor this season are 9-9 (.500)

the miami heat with shaquille o'neal on the floor this season are 35-12 (.745)

also, you arrived at your conclusion based on only a 3 game sample. my sample was 38 games (18 games for tobe and 20 games for lamar odom)...

FYI, with shaquille o'neal on the floor the miami heat went 9-4 (.692) in the 2004-2005 playoffs...

 

[TrojansFan]

Re: a question

TF,

did you miss this part?

the miami heat without shaquille o'neal on the floor this season are 9-9 (.500)

the miami heat with shaquille o'neal on the floor this season are 35-12 (.745)

also, you arrived at your conclusion based on only a 3 game sample. my sample was 38 games (18 games for tobe and 20 games for lamar odom)...

FYI, with shaquille o'neal on the floor the miami heat went 9-4 (.692) in the 2004-2005 playoffs...

I didn't miss any part. You asked how I came to my conclusion and I said I used last year's playoffs was the foundation for my opinion! You used this regualr season, I used last year's playoffs. Last I checked the playoffs are when it counts. I would think my playoff sample would be a lot more imortant than a regular season sample. Please don't try to tell me what happens in the regular season is more important than playoffs.
Thanks for pointing out that with Shaq on the floor in the playoffs last year that the Heat went 9-4 (.692).
But why not complete the comparison? Its o.k., I'll do it for you...
With Dwayne Wade on the floor the Heat went 11-3 (.786).
With a healthy Dwayne Wade the Heat went 11-2 (.846).
But the key is that when Dwayne was hurt and they needed Shaq to carry them he led the team to their worst playoff defeat in franchise history! Remember Dwayne had to come back and play hurt in game 7, because they knew without him they had no chance! In the playoffs is when you have to step up your game, when a teammate is hurt, you have to step it up even more... Wade did, Shaq didn't! You don't have to be right all the time, just admit you got this one wrong!

 

[cranrab]

a question

You asked how I came to my conclusion and I said I used last year's playoffs was the foundation for my opinion! You used this regualr season, I used last year's playoffs. I would think my playoff sample would be a lot more imortant than a regular season sample.

i never suggested that your conclusion was invalid, but i still maintain that with such a small sample, your conclusion is dubious at best...

for the 2 playoff game sample you used, wasn't shaquille o'neal playing hampered with an injury of his own? would that make your sample representative of what shaquille o'neal brings to the table?

hope you're enjoying the fakers v. cavaliers game...