this is my bet..JR Smith
Jim Buss: Bynum is untouchable and Kobe felt he should have been consulted
- Thread starter killa kadafi191
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this is my bet..JR Smith
No one is arguing against the usage of statistics.
But you have to use them in the context they belong in.
You cannot call a guy who plays spot minutes who's advanced statistics are better than a star's advanced statistics a better player. Or a role player who's not even an option on offense to a star player who's the first option.
Because you fall into the trap of assuming everyone plays in a vacuum and how they perform in one role will translate into another role.
Some people here sound like fans who use the per 36 minutes or per 48 minutes to show how a role player is putting up numbers at rates similar to star players, and then are baffled when said player gets more minutes and does not have the same rate of production.
And then to say everyone else is using a straw man argument when you decide to use hyperbole in the manner you do? Ridiculous.
Even more funny is when you see another poster say that Kobe wouldn't play the defense required by Thibodeau, but trying to support the poster who's arguing solely using the statistics, which ironically show that Kobe is a BETTER defender than Bogans.
So which is it fellers, are we going to use the statistics only whn it suits your argument and then ignore it when it doesn't, or will you try to remain consistent?
Use that advanced metrics to your heart's content, but only compare players of similar stature when using it.
Just remember - CONTEXT.
But you have to use them in the context they belong in.
You cannot call a guy who plays spot minutes who's advanced statistics are better than a star's advanced statistics a better player. Or a role player who's not even an option on offense to a star player who's the first option.
Because you fall into the trap of assuming everyone plays in a vacuum and how they perform in one role will translate into another role.
Some people here sound like fans who use the per 36 minutes or per 48 minutes to show how a role player is putting up numbers at rates similar to star players, and then are baffled when said player gets more minutes and does not have the same rate of production.
And then to say everyone else is using a straw man argument when you decide to use hyperbole in the manner you do? Ridiculous.
Even more funny is when you see another poster say that Kobe wouldn't play the defense required by Thibodeau, but trying to support the poster who's arguing solely using the statistics, which ironically show that Kobe is a BETTER defender than Bogans.
So which is it fellers, are we going to use the statistics only whn it suits your argument and then ignore it when it doesn't, or will you try to remain consistent?
Use that advanced metrics to your heart's content, but only compare players of similar stature when using it.
Just remember - CONTEXT.
nah he's a head case.. I say Lee
I would have said JR until he told his home town paper he would love to return back to Jersey and is looking to start.
I don't think JR being close to his friends is a good idea.
I think the nets would throw money at him because they need a player like him.
I'm hoping chi gets him. He could be worth the risk but idk
Im not saying he is the best move but I think that is the player chicago wants and they could get that deal done...and i think he wants out of denver too
I would have said JR until he told his home town paper he would love to return back to Jersey and is looking to start.
I don't think JR being close to his friends is a good idea.
I think the nets would throw money at him because they need a player like him.
I'm hoping chi gets him. He could be worth the risk but idk
this accusation is the most laughable of all positions i've ever seen you posit on BGOL.
because it is usually you and killakadafi (sp?) entertaining all these fantastic and exotic player personnel moves. all these fictional player and team pairings based on what? nonsensical suggested player performance in your fantasy vacuum and how they allegedly would perform in new surroundings, new coaches and new facilities.
and all these admonitions and allusions about context and circumstances from you are more babble and mummery. for example, instead of manning up and owning that you didn't know what xfactor was referring to, you backtracked and googled. bravo.
after all, if you DID understand what xfactor was VALIDLY pointing out in the andrew bynum/dwight howard post, you would understand andrew bynum's value IN THAT REGARD. but you don't, and gave vapid remarks about how FT shooting can be improved. you mean like wilt chamberlain, bill russell, tim duncan or shaquille o'neal did in their careers?
but it's cool. i know you cats on BGOL like to feign knowledge and fish for co-signers. your fragile egos need the validation.
Where was it said that Wobe was rated higher than Bogans defensively? The Defensive Rating clearly shows that Bogans gives up less points than Wobe.
Wobe wouldn't be capable of changing his game. That'd require team play and basketball IQ.
Which player do you think has more pressure to perform. The one that will get yanked if he plays poor D and doesn't make shots or the player that has the green light to shoot and led the NBA in Usg despite not posting the efficiency level to merit it?
For the record, I'm not a fan of Keith Bogans and have already said the Bulls need an SG that can create his own shot and knock down the 3. All I said here is that the proposed replacement is a downgrade and the stats will show it.
caping up for a fellow stan, i see.
in the thread supremegizzle/thurgood/8supremodivino8 was referring to, i pointed out tobe's 40+ point performances v. winning teams and 40+ point performances v. losing teams.
in THIS thread, supremegizzle/thurgood/8supremodivino8 built a flimsy straw man by suggesting i had made an argument which pointed out tobe's 40+ point performances v. "strong defensive teams".
winning/losing teams does not equal "strong defensive" teams.
that's textbook straw man.
shhhhh.... after all, someone who understands statistics already knows this.
he already told you you're wrong because you're not considering context or circumstances properly.
the misunderstanding is clearly on you, because he obviously can't even deciper these powerful magical metrics.
As I said to Nobody, the stats show that your proposed replacement would be a downgrade. I won't even post the playoff comparison, because the disparity is even higher.
I'm not talking about the Bulls v. Heat. I'm talking solely about a comparison of the proposed replacement and current starter for Chicago at SG. The same starter at SG that helped the team win an NBA high 62 games.
obscure stats because the metrics debunk what you think you see on the court. right
But J Jack was clearly the Hornets best defender this year. Didn't you see what the stans said about the opposition?
J Jack will be the first to let you know he'll lock a MF down on D too. Especially the "greatest since Jordan"
As a basketball fan, I see your bullshit from a mile away.
yeah, like when i called dallas after only 20 games as playing the best ball in the NBA?
while all you other "fans"
were hollering about the fakers, spurs and celtics?bullshit like that? that was supported with SPECIFIC identifiable reasons (that still hold true now), and not some always vague claims about chemistry or some such?
right.
man, if only daryl morey knew as much as BGOL "basketball" fans.
what a waste of an MIT education.
dumb ass statisticians.
metrics and analytics in basketball? impossible.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/28/sports/basketball/28morey.html
Have you attended the Sloan Sports Conference at MIT? There was was good stuff in the transcripts that I've seen from it.
i posted video from the one here in california a couple years ago.
it explained among other things, how those scary wizarding statistics are used to decide which free agents to pursue and which trades should be considered.
dallas maverics, boston celtics, houston rockets and denver nuggets were all present.
What did I tell you all?
Those dudes hate Kobe so much, that anyone who takes his side must be a Stan, or something close to one. Basically, unless you're willing to say Kobe is the worst player that ever played in the NBA, you're a Stan.
I would LOVE to see these dudes get on TV and try to make this argument. You guys are making Skip Blayless seem like a Lebron fanboy by comparison.
Howard can basically dictate where he wants to go, because he could just stay like Shaq, and they get nothing in return. Also if they trade him a team would want to make sure he signs and extension.
I'll give you durability and defense but Howard better than Bynum on O?
Bynum produces .06 more points per possession than Howard on offense and their TS% is the same. Bynum is a better passer and won't turn it over like Howard will.
Bynum's not as good a rebounder but he's a better shot blocker than Howard. Bynum's injury problems and playing with a black hole at SG will prevent him from reaching his full potential which would be the best C in the league.
Your basketball knowledge is on E without 82games.com
What was Kobe's SG% for the year
Question, do you have a favorite team or is your hobby hanging from Kobe's nuts?
/Thread
Dwight Howard: Orlando is first choice
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6609008
Dwight Howard is not planning on following Shaquille O'Neal's lead and bolting the Orlando Magic via fee agency.
"I want to start my own path and I want people to follow my path and not just follow somebody else's path. I want to have my own path, and I want to start that here in Orlando. But I can't do it alone. Not only do I need the right teammates, but I need the city behind me. That's the only way it's going to get done. We can change this small city that we have -- this small market that we have -- and we can make it a big market."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6609008
Dwight Howard is not planning on following Shaquille O'Neal's lead and bolting the Orlando Magic via fee agency.
"I want to start my own path and I want people to follow my path and not just follow somebody else's path. I want to have my own path, and I want to start that here in Orlando. But I can't do it alone. Not only do I need the right teammates, but I need the city behind me. That's the only way it's going to get done. We can change this small city that we have -- this small market that we have -- and we can make it a big market."
C/S. Like someone was comparing Pau's and Amare's FG% as a raw stat, well, no shit why.
LOL @ dudes with their smokescreens trying to pretend they understand statistics when they clearly don't.
on BGOL you can find cats who insist that tobe won back to back defensive player of the year awards.
on BGOL you can find cats who feign knowledge of NBA business practices, but don't know the difference between salary cap and luxury tax threshold.
on BGOL you can find cats who will utter generic protests to the introduction of statistical data, but only present speculative hypothetical (as opposed to FACTUAL references) allusions to bias.
i'm glad there are threads on BGOL that dispel the ignorant claims of those individuals.
for example, these should assist the individual alleged moments ago to have only referenced raw FG%:
http://www.bgol.us/board/showpost.php?p=9742886&postcount=1
on BGOL you can find cats who insist that tobe won back to back defensive player of the year awards.
on BGOL you can find cats who feign knowledge of NBA business practices, but don't know the difference between salary cap and luxury tax threshold.
on BGOL you can find cats who will utter generic protests to the introduction of statistical data, but only present speculative hypothetical (as opposed to FACTUAL references) allusions to bias.
i'm glad there are threads on BGOL that dispel the ignorant claims of those individuals.
for example, these should assist the individual alleged moments ago to have only referenced raw FG%:
http://www.bgol.us/board/showpost.php?p=9742886&postcount=1
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