Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Economy?

Upgrade Dave

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So, let me get this straight *for the record* that both Upgrade, and Thought, sees nothing wrong with Fannie/Freddie?

Did I say that? For the record, everything can be improved but it's a fallacy, and I think a purposeful misdirection by some "Conservative" commentators, to act like Freddie and Fannie were causes of the housing crisis.
 

QueEx

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

fCIRQ.SlMa.91.jpg
 

actinanass

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Did I say that? For the record, everything can be improved but it's a fallacy, and I think a purposeful misdirection by some "Conservative" commentators, to act like Freddie and Fannie were causes of the housing crisis.

It's a misdirection to act as if nothing was wrong, and it was just greedy bankers wanting to destroy the financial system.

God forbid the left actually do something that's responsible for a fucking change. However, why fix the problem when you can blame big, bad, Wall Street? The left always find the easy scapegoat to the problems THEY created.
 

cheyisrameyah

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo


On the Right: Justices pictured toward the Right of the graphic.

On the Left: Justice pictured toward the Left of the graphic.

Unshaded pictures = the majority, in the particular decision

Shaded pictuers = the minority, in the particular decision

NOTE: Kennedy is pictured towards the middle, as some contend he is a 'swing' vote; but, in the major rulings of the 2009, 2009 term, where did he align when the Court splits 5-4, left-right ???



0701-nat-SCOTUS-web.gif

What do you think?


See, Roberts Court Shifts Right, Tipped by Kennedy




I know that smiley's are rarely used or discouraged but after looking at this chart, Clarence Thomas being the lone dissenting vote in the Voting Rights Act case is definitely a head shaker.

In answering the OP's question, yes I do. I don't think The GOP even cares about the long term blow back of their decisions in terms of risking future elections. You cant even really call it open class warfare, its been open season on unions and the working class for 30 years.

The Republicans bread and butter has been getting people to vote against their better economic interests by obfuscating political debates with superfluous dribble. You cant say that Americans are lazy, productivity per worker is at all time highs. As long as the Democrats continue to allow the Republicans to frame the discussion, we will continue to be mired in the current situation if not worse. A lot of blame can be attributed to Fox News and a lot can be attributed to the Democrats failure to frame the arguments they try to make and keep their foot on the pedal.
 

Upgrade Dave

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It's a misdirection to act as if nothing was wrong, and it was just greedy bankers wanting to destroy the financial system.

God forbid the left actually do something that's responsible for a fucking change. However, why fix the problem when you can blame big, bad, Wall Street? The left always find the easy scapegoat to the problems THEY created.

Personally, I'm blaming Wall Street for what they did, is that wrong? They screwed this up and it was with corporate Democrats and Republicans that enabled them to do it. No one on "The Left" that was supporting them, it was people who were sucking on the teat of the financial firms that weaken regulations and let them get away with all kinds of shenanigans and pulled us into this mess.
It's "The Left" who's proposing fixing this mess while it's Republicans and those who say their on "the Right" who are standinig against any changes or regulations.
 

Upgrade Dave

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I know that smiley's are rarely used or discouraged but after looking at this chart, Clarence Thomas being the lone dissenting vote in the Voting Rights Act case is definitely a head shaker.

In answering the OP's question, yes I do. I don't think The GOP even cares about the long term blow back of their decisions in terms of risking future elections. You cant even really call it open class warfare, its been open season on unions and the working class for 30 years.

The Republicans bread and butter has been getting people to vote against their better economic interests by obfuscating political debates with superfluous dribble. You cant say that Americans are lazy, productivity per worker is at all time highs. As long as the Democrats continue to allow the Republicans to frame the discussion, we will continue to be mired in the current situation if not worse. A lot of blame can be attributed to Fox News and a lot can be attributed to the Democrats failure to frame the arguments they try to make and keep their foot on the pedal.

:yes:
 

QueEx

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

I know that smiley's are rarely used or discouraged but after looking at this chart, Clarence Thomas being the lone dissenting vote in the Voting Rights Act case is definitely a head shaker.

In answering the OP's question, yes I do. I don't think The GOP even cares about the long term blow back of their decisions in terms of risking future elections. You cant even really call it open class warfare, its been open season on unions and the working class for 30 years.

The Republicans bread and butter has been getting people to vote against their better economic interests by obfuscating political debates with superfluous dribble. You cant say that Americans are lazy, productivity per worker is at all time highs. As long as the Democrats continue to allow the Republicans to frame the discussion, we will continue to be mired in the current situation if not worse. A lot of blame can be attributed to Fox News and a lot can be attributed to the Democrats failure to frame the arguments they try to make and keep their foot on the pedal.

Well said.

QueEx
 

thoughtone

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

source: Huffington Post


Ron Johnson Pledges To Bring The Senate To A Halt Over Debt Negotiations [UPDATE]

<!-- Large image -->
r-RON-JOHNSON-CPAC-large570.jpg


WASHINGTON -- Freshman Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) declared that as long as the debt ceiling negotiations are held behind closed doors, he will block all unanimous consent calls, effectively putting a stop on Senate business Tuesday in a one-man filibuster.

Johnson criticized the move to "decide the fate of America's ... financial future" in private.

"Unless we receive some assurance from the Democrat leadership that we will actually start addressing our budget out in the open, in the bright light of day -- I will begin to object," Johnson said on the Senate floor. "I will begin to withhold my consent."

When there was a request to relinquish a quorum call, Johnson objected, bringing several senators, including Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) and Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and aides of Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) over to discuss procedural moves.

Johnson is attempting to make negotiations over the debt limit his "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" moment, calling for an open discussion about making a debt ceiling deal as the closed-door talks are in doubt. Because the Senate operates much of its business on unanimous consent, a lone lawmaker can grind things to a halt.

When asked how long the senator intends to obstruct unanimous consent, Johnson's office did not immediately respond to The Huffington Post.

Lawmakers are negotiating with the White House on a debt-reduction deal in exchange for raising the government's borrowing limit, which the Treasury Department estimates must be done by Aug. 2 to avoid a U.S. default.

Opposition party representatives in the talks, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) and Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.), quit Vice President Joe Biden's bipartisan debt discussions last week over the issue of revenue-raising measures, which they have repeatedly said cannot be included in a final deal.

President Barack Obama started meeting with congressional leaders in closed to the public meetings to hammer out the details this week, although there have been continued disagreements over whether or not to include any tax increases on wealthy Americans.

Johnson also called on the Senate to pass a budget of only $2.6 trillion, an amount just below what the federal budget was in 2007. The dollar figure he proposed is the amount of projected revenue the U.S. would collect in fiscal year 2012.

"The Senate needs to pass a budget," he added. "It shouldn't be that hard."

"Republicans have it backwards," said Adam Jentleson, spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), to The Huffington Post. "Instead of finding new ways to block jobs bills, they should be working with us to create jobs and get our economy back on track."

UPDATE - 7:08 p.m.: Johnson's threat to shut down the Senate lasted a little longer than two hours, after a procedural move by Reid stopped the Wisconsin Republican in his tracks.

Reid ordered a vote to authorize the sergeant at arms to request the attendance of all absent senators just after 6 p.m. Tuesday. The motion passed 44-40 along party lines. However, Johnson was granted permission to speak for 10 minutes where he mostly reiterated his points from earlier in the afternoon.

The Senate should stay in session next week to deal with the budget instead of adjourning to a short recess with a pro forma session, Johnson suggested. Instead, the Senate is "waiting on the results of negotiations behind closed doors."

Johnson cautioned he wouldn't rule out pulling a move like that again if the Senate didn't get a budget passed soon.
 

cheyisrameyah

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Ron Johnson, you mean this same Ron Johnson?

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...s-10-million-payday-its-a-private-company.php


Legal experts say that whether Sen. Ron Johnson's (R-WI) $10 million parting gift from his company potentially violates campaign laws depends on when it was negotiated. But asked by TPM to directly address the timing, Johnson repeatedly ducked the question.

Johnson's collected $10 million in deferred compensation from his former company, Pacur, a figure that Wisconsin papers have noted lines up conveniently with the $9 million he spent on his Senate campaign in 2010 against incumbent Democrat Russ Feingold. The freshman lawmaker has offered few details on how or when the company worked out the $10 million number, but legal experts told TPM that if the package was negotiated after his Senate run it could potentially count as an illegal corporate donation to his campaign.

Asked by TPM before a Senate vote on Tuesday to clarify whether he worked out the agreement before or after his 2010 campaign, Johnson did not give a direct answer.

"It's a private company," he said. "We fully complied, fully disclosed [and] followed the law, complied with the spirit and letter of the law, and again it's a private company. Those financial matters end up being more complex."

Pressed again on the specific question of timing, Johnson walked away to vote.
 

Upgrade Dave

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Ron Johnson, you mean this same Ron Johnson?

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...s-10-million-payday-its-a-private-company.php


Legal experts say that whether Sen. Ron Johnson's (R-WI) $10 million parting gift from his company potentially violates campaign laws depends on when it was negotiated. But asked by TPM to directly address the timing, Johnson repeatedly ducked the question.

Johnson's collected $10 million in deferred compensation from his former company, Pacur, a figure that Wisconsin papers have noted lines up conveniently with the $9 million he spent on his Senate campaign in 2010 against incumbent Democrat Russ Feingold. The freshman lawmaker has offered few details on how or when the company worked out the $10 million number, but legal experts told TPM that if the package was negotiated after his Senate run it could potentially count as an illegal corporate donation to his campaign.

Asked by TPM before a Senate vote on Tuesday to clarify whether he worked out the agreement before or after his 2010 campaign, Johnson did not give a direct answer.

"It's a private company," he said. "We fully complied, fully disclosed [and] followed the law, complied with the spirit and letter of the law, and again it's a private company. Those financial matters end up being more complex."

Pressed again on the specific question of timing, Johnson walked away to vote.

As I said in another thread: Republicans/Conservatives really think ethics and integrity are for other people.
 

QueEx

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo



The question asked at the top of this thread is simple: <SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">

Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians
For Them To Sabotage the Econo[my] ???​
</span>


As I look back over the responses, none appear to address the issue as straight forward as the reply at Post No. 7:




It's not in the best interest of the Republican constituency but apparently they feel it is in the best political interest of the Republican Party to do everything possible to hinder recovery. While the private sector has been gaining jobs for well over a year, the public sector has been shedding jobs at a faster rate and it was Republicans leading the charge to cut aid to states, forcing them to have massive layoffs.

It was the Republicans who were most vocal about not making loans to GM and Chrysler. Not out of some philosophical stance about private industry and big government but to destroy the automaker unions. Those two companies sudden collapse would have had a huge effect nationwide, not just in Michigan.

The most important thing to them right now is defeating Barack Obama, the rest of the country be damned.


There have been 79 replies in this thread, 73 of which have been since Post No. 7, but not a single reply or response, not even from the usual suspects, responding to Post No. 7.





:confused:



 

Fuckallyall

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo



The question asked at the top of this thread is simple: <SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">

Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians
For Them To Sabotage the Econo[my] ???​
</span>


As I look back over the responses, none appear to address the issue as straight forward as the reply at Post No. 7:





There have been 79 replies in this thread, 73 of which have been since Post No. 7, but not a single reply or response, not even from the usual suspects, responding to Post No. 7.





:confused:




Please define who the usual suspects are?
 

QueEx

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Is The GOP Sabotaging The Economy? Schumer:
‘They Give Us No Choice But To Answer Yes’



"It's a thought you just don't want to believe in, because that would be
[horrible]," Schumer said. "But every day they keep giving us more and
more evidence that there's no choice but to answer the question 'yes.'
They give us no choice but to come to that conclusion."








 

QueEx

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Please define who the usual suspects are?

Ill let them define themselves. But, I'm sure they know who they are. I just threw the rock; we'll know who it hits, by the one(s) who yelp!
 

Upgrade Dave

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo



The question asked at the top of this thread is simple: <SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">

Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians
For Them To Sabotage the Econo[my] ???​
</span>


As I look back over the responses, none appear to address the issue as straight forward as the reply at Post No. 7:





There have been 79 replies in this thread, 73 of which have been since Post No. 7, but not a single reply or response, not even from the usual suspects, responding to Post No. 7.





:confused:




I've been waiting too.

Ill let them define themselves. But, I'm sure they know who they are. I just threw the rock; we'll know who it hits, by the one(s) who yelp!


They know how to dodge rocks, Que.:D
 

thoughtone

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

source:. The Wall Street Journal

cantor.jpg


Eric Cantor Is Short Treasurys (Sort Of)


What do Bill Gross, Evan Newmark and Rep. Eric Cantor have in common? They’re all betting against Treasury debt!

But only one of these men has been involved in heated negotiations over the government’s debt ceiling, and that’s Eric Cantor, No. 2 Republican in the House.

Mr. Cantor, who walked out of debt discussions with Vice President Joe Biden last week, owns up to $15,000 in shares of the ProShares Trust Ultrashort 20+ Year Treasury ETF, Salon notes today, updating a Wall Street Journal report on this from last year.

Salon argues this means Mr. Cantor has a conflict of interest in the debt negotiations. Conventional wisdom holds that letting the talks fail would roil the bond market, hurting Treasurys, which would benefit Mr. Cantor. The TBT is up 3% since Mr. Cantor walked out of debt talks.

But to be fair to Mr. Cantor, he also owns a lot of Treasury debt (updated to add: as part of his pension), and the TBT merely hedges some of that exposure, his spokesperson tells Salon.

And so far the Treasury market has seemed decidedly not roiled by the debt debate, which most observers regard as so much Kabuki theater anyway.

Correction: The initial version of this post incorrectly said Mr. Cantor owned up to 15,000 shares of TBT. Instead, he owns up to $15,000 in shares of TBT.
<!-- article end -->
 
Last edited:

Lamarr

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The GOP don't have to sabotage the economy, Bernanke & Obama are doin all they can to devalue the dollar. The smart money is in gold & silver. Gold doubled under the Bush admin, and it has again doubled under the Obama admin. It only reconfirms my thinking that neither party understands monetary theory or the "screamin fundamentals" of a healthy economy!

Have fun with these phony-azz republican / democrat arguments.
 

Upgrade Dave

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The GOP don't have to sabotage the economy, Bernanke & Obama are doin all they can to devalue the dollar. The smart money is in gold & silver. Gold doubled under the Bush admin, and it has again doubled under the Obama admin. It only reconfirms my thinking that neither party understands monetary theory or the "screamin fundamentals" of a healthy economy!

Have fun with these phony-azz republican / democrat arguments.

Now sounds like a good time to be selling gold, not buying it. That sounds like a bubble waiting to burst.
 

QueEx

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The GOP don't have to sabotage the economy, Bernanke & Obama are doin all they can to devalue the dollar . . . [blah, blah, blah].

Have fun with these phony-azz republican / democrat arguments.
Okay, this time without dodging the question by attempting to change the subject, Is it in the best interest of the GOB/Libertarians to sabotage the economy [at this stage of the game leading up to 2012] ???

Is it your contention that they are not attempting to sabotage the economy ???

QueEx
 

Lamarr

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Okay, this time without dodging the question by attempting to change the subject, Is it in the best interest of the GOB/Libertarians to sabotage the economy [at this stage of the game leading up to 2012] ???

Is it your contention that they are not attempting to sabotage the economy ???

QueEx

define "sabotage the economy"? I mean, Are we operating under the premise that the "jobless recovery" has been deemed a success?

Does anyone see QE1 / QE2 as a mechanism to "sabotage the economy"?
 

Lamarr

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Personally, I'm blaming Wall Street for what they did, is that wrong? They screwed this up and it was with corporate Democrats and Republicans that enabled them to do it. No one on "The Left" that was supporting them, it was people who were sucking on the teat of the financial firms that weaken regulations and let them get away with all kinds of shenanigans and pulled us into this mess.
It's "The Left" who's proposing fixing this mess while it's Republicans and those who say their on "the Right" who are standinig against any changes or regulations.

yeah, Wall Street got drunk........but so did Main Street. People were gettin houses (no money down), flippin houses - thinkin this would last forever. The whole damn country was drunk! Why is it no one ever asks how this happens? It happened because the Fed Reserve pumped a lot of "cheap money" into the marketplace. Why is no one is wanting to regulate the Fed?

How is "The Left" proposing to fix this mess when they don't have the power to control the Money Supply? Just recently, Bernanke started QE2, without congressional approval. He injected $600 billion into the marketplace and no one on "The Left" said sh*t about it.
 

QueEx

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

define "sabotage the economy"? I mean, Are we operating under the premise that the "jobless recovery" has been deemed a success?

Does anyone see QE1 / QE2 as a mechanism to "sabotage the economy"?

Well now, instead of answering the question, you now ask an interesting question to a question. I wouldn't presume to know whether the OP's OQ (original question) "operates under the premise that the jobless recovery has been deemed a success" or not.

I read the question as an accusation that Republicans and Libertarians are trying to sabotage the recovery -- or at least stall it -- by blocking all short-term measures to boost the economy, even ones they previously supported.

So, I'll let the OP clarify (if that is even necessary) -- because, the whole notion of sabotage rests just as comfortably atop preventing economic recovery as it does destroying an economy that has presumably recovered.

However, if you misunderstood the question, why did you wait 90 posts to seek clarification ??? Rock struck ???
 

Lamarr

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Well now, instead of answering the question, you now ask an interesting question to a question. I wouldn't presume to know whether the OP's OQ (original question) "operates under the premise that the jobless recovery has been deemed a success" or not.

I'll wait to see the OP justify Bernanke's "jobless recovery" rhetoric.
 

thoughtone

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

yeah, Wall Street got drunk........but so did Main Street. People were gettin houses (no money down), flippin houses - thinkin this would last forever.

LOL! That's capitalism Lamarr! Unless you are all for those dreaded regulations that prevented this sort of shit from happening under socialist Clinton! But more to the point, if you are implying that Wall Street and Main Street are at equal fault, then why is Main Street paying for Wall Street's hangover?

I'll wait to see the OP justify Bernanke's "jobless recovery" rhetoric.

Republicans block bill to prevent jobs from moving overseas

Your political brethren are fighting the President at every step, tooth and nail. You have labeled it honest political debate
 

QueEx

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I'll wait to see the OP justify Bernanke's "jobless recovery" rhetoric.

About what I thought. You'd like to answer a question other than the the question that was asked. But I was forewarned! Another poster said there are those who know how to dodge rocks. :yes:
 

Lamarr

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LOL! That's capitalism Lamarr! Unless you are all for those dreaded regulations that prevented this sort of shit from happening under socialist Clinton! But more to the point, if you are implying that Wall Street and Main Street are at equal fault, then why is Main Street paying for Wall Street's hangover?

Wrong again Thought, It was a bubble created by the Federal Reserve and not a result of capitalism. Where were you when Ron Paul stood before the House Financial Services Committee, September 10, 2003 and correctly predicted this housing debacle?

Your political brethren are fighting the President at every step, tooth and nail. You have labeled it honest political debate

GTFOH! I aint defending Repubs but I aint defending Dems either!


U.S. To Train 3,000 Offshore IT Workers


Now It's Armenia: USAID Funds IT In Eurasia
 

thoughtone

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Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Wrong again Thought, It was a bubble created by the Federal Reserve and not a result of capitalism. Where were you when Ron Paul stood before the House Financial Services Committee, September 10, 2003 and correctly predicted this housing debacle?



GTFOH! I aint defending Repubs but I aint defending Dems either!


U.S. To Train 3,000 Offshore IT Workers


Now It's Armenia: USAID Funds IT In Eurasia

USAID has been doing this stuff since JFK and before. Don't try and make it seem that this something different from any other administration.

QueEx was spot on when he said you are famous from deflecting from the original topic and not answering it.
 

Upgrade Dave

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out of curiosity, what makes you say that?

Because I've seen this episode before except it was labeled "the housing bubble" and an earlier episode was called the "dot com bubble".
If gold's value is that hot, the smart move is to sell it, not buy it because you don't want to be on the bottom when it comes back down.

yeah, Wall Street got drunk........but so did Main Street. People were gettin houses (no money down), flippin houses - thinkin this would last forever. The whole damn country was drunk!


So you've seen this show, too?
 

ballscout1

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Last time I checked, Dems run 2/3's of the government.

wrong the democrats run 1/3 the white house

GOP has congress

Senate is a wash because nothing can go to vote without the GOP threat of filibuster.


GOP also still has the supreme court.


the answer to the question is that the vast majority of the politicians in Washington are financially wealthy.They can weather any turmoil with the economy.

So yes they believe that if the economy improves then Obama keeps the White House and the GOP will loose congressional and senate seats because they will be seen as constructionist.

If the economy stays the same or gets worse then nobody will care why and the president will take the weight and loose 2012.

Yes it is their strategy and in their interest.

Their whole agenda is not to help the country or see the country improve but to make Obama a one term president by any means
 

Lamarr

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About what I thought. You'd like to answer a question other than the the question that was asked. But I was forewarned! Another poster said there are those who know how to dodge rocks. :yes:

OK................lets see where this takes us. :)

No, it's not in anybody's interest to sabotage the economy!
 

Upgrade Dave

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OK................lets see where this takes us. :)

No, it's not in anybody's interest to sabotage the economy!

I agree and it shouldn't be but Republicans' actions make it appear that they think it is in their own.
 

Lamarr

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I agree and it shouldn't be but Republicans' actions make it appear that they think it is in their own.

So Bernanke creates $2 Trillion through quantitative easing, without congressional approval, and the actions of Republicans appear to be "sabotaging the economy"?

Printing money "out of thin air", to finance 6 Wars around the globe does not have a negative effect on the economy?

Can someone list an economic policy change taken by the Obama admin. that has put us on the road to recovery.
 
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