Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Economy?

[Lamarr]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Need one? We got one with the compromise Obama made with the Republicans to extend the Bush tax cuts. While everyone on the Left was looking at it as a defeat, they missed all the stuff Obama got in small business, middle class and working class tax cuts and benefits and unemployment benefits extension. The second Stimulus will end up being bigger than the first. Unfortunately, since it's almost all tax cuts, it'll have far less bang for the buck.

We can't spend/stimulate our way out of this problem. We can't solve the issue of debt with more debt! We must produce our way out of this problem. Therefore, we must incentivize producers. That comes from legislating a business-friendly environment, and not from implementing anti-capitalistic measures to stifle production

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

We can't spend/stimulate our way out of this problem. We can't solve the issue of debt with more debt! We must produce our way out of this problem. Therefore, we must incentivize producers. That comes from legislating a business-friendly environment, and not from implementing anti-capitalistic measures to stifle production

And when you say that, you have to know that would be some type of spending.

 

[Lamarr]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

And when you say that, you have to know that would be some type of spending.

not necessarily; It starts with policy changes. ZIRP, to mention one, (Zero Interest Rate Policy) destroys savings & oppurtunity. Bush did it, now Obama is continuing it

1) reward those who save by raising interest rates
2) those "savers" who accumulate capital can invest in oppurtunities, therefore creating jobs. Capital accumulation is key to a healthy economy but Bernanke is not helping us with his monetary policy.
3) determine the proper 'role' of govt and allow the people to run the economy (freedom is popular)

Entreprenuers invest overseas simply because the return is greater. We need incentives to produce right here in the US

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

not necessarily; It starts with policy changes. ZIRP, to mention one, (Zero Interest Rate Policy) destroys savings & oppurtunity. Bush did it, now Obama is continuing it

1) reward those who save by raising interest rates
2) those "savers" who accumulate capital can invest in oppurtunities, therefore creating jobs. Capital accumulation is key to a healthy economy but Bernanke is not helping us with his monetary policy.
3) determine the proper 'role' of govt and allow the people to run the economy (freedom is popular)
Entreprenuers invest overseas simply because the return is greater. We need incentives to produce right here in the US

The first two are concrete steps but that last one is one of those things that people say that doesn't mean anything.
Like I said before, the idea of freedom is popular but the practive is not.

 

[Lamarr]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

The first two are concrete steps but that last one is one of those things that people say that doesn't mean anything.
Like I said before, the idea of freedom is popular but the practive is not.

But that's where the fight is, the role of govt! Markets perform better when the govt allows it to work. If interest rates were determined in the market as opposed to Bernanke, we could start getting out of this hole. Govt is not allowing the markets to work.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

But that's where the fight is, the role of govt! Markets perform better when the govt allows it to work. If interest rates were determined in the market as opposed to Bernanke, we could start getting out of this hole. Govt is not allowing the markets to work.

\

But that's where the fight is, the role of govt! Markets perform better when the govt allows it to work

Perform better for whom?

 

[actinanass]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

You're not too bright.

You not getting it.

Conservatives do not embrace Kennedy. You are calling Kennedy in which he is not.

Trust me thought, if conservatives really thought Kennedy was as conservative as Thomas, or Scalia, Roe v Wade would've been overturned.

Kennedy is as conservative as Arnold, or McCain. If you wanna call that conservative at all.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

You not getting it.

Conservatives do not embrace Kennedy. You are calling Kennedy in which he is not.

Trust me thought, if conservatives really thought Kennedy was as conservative as Thomas, or Scalia, Roe v Wade would've been overturned.

Kennedy is as conservative as Arnold, or McCain. If you wanna call that conservative at all.

McCain is and always has been very much a Conservative. He had a spell where he was mad at Bush and antagonized his administration but his voting record since he's been in the Senate is very conservative.
Kennedy isn't a hardline idealogue like Scalia, Roberts, Alito, and Thomas but he's at the least Right leaning. The fact that he's not a idealogue is why Conservatives feel betrayed.

 

[Lamarr]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Perform better for whom?

Savers, people who can bring American ingenuity back to the forefront so we can start to repair our broken economy. My pops taught me that diversity was this nations greatest strenghth. well no matter what your race; if you have the 'will' & a good idea, you can save and make a meaningful contribution to the REAL recovery. Once again, the people should run the economy, not these Bozo's in DC.

PS. Henry Sampson Jr, a black man, created the cell phone! We are resourceful, natural-born leaders. Get DC out of the way and let us lead

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Savers, people who can bring American ingenuity back to the forefront so we can start to repair our broken economy. My pops taught me that diversity was this nations greatest strenghth. well no matter what your race; if you have the 'will' & a good idea, you can save and make a meaningful contribution to the REAL recovery. Once again, the people should run the economy, not these Bozo's in DC.

PS. Henry Sampson Jr, a black man, created the cell phone! We are resourceful, natural-born leaders. Get DC out of the way and let us lead

Savers

You got that right. The people that are paying you to post are sitting on $3 trillion and want even more tax cuts and refuse to give up the corporate welfare they are already receiving. Trickle down has served them well since Reagan and they want even more on steroids!

All we have to do is end the military industrial stranglehold on our society and economy and just return to the Clinton tax levels and we will begin to recover from this republican/libertarian economic nightmare. We don't have a debt problem, we have revenue problem!

And don't try and placate me with your Black Man reference. Even in the best economic circumstances Black folk have not faired equally in this economic system.

 

[Lamarr]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

All we have to do is end the military industrial stranglehold on our society and economy and just return to the Clinton tax levels and we will begin to recover from this republican/libertarian economic nightmare. We don't have a debt problem, we have revenue problem!

You're only half right, return to Clinton spending levels! Even then, Clinton managed to increase the national debt each year of his presidency so it really isn't an accomplishment, however, compared to Bush, Clinton appears to be an ultra-conservative.

And don't try and placate me with your Black Man reference. Even in the best economic circumstances Black folk have not faired equally in this economic system.

What a defeated mindset! Blacks can't compete?

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

You're only half right, return to Clinton spending levels! Even then, Clinton managed to increase the national debt each year of his presidency so it really isn't an accomplishment, however, compared to Bush, Clinton appears to be an ultra-conservative.



What a defeated mindset! Blacks can't compete?

C'mon Lamarr, you know that's not what he said.

 

[QueEx]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Kennedy isn't a conservative either..

On the Right: Justices pictured toward the Right of the graphic.

On the Left: Justice pictured toward the Left of the graphic.

Unshaded pictures = the majority, in the particular decision

Shaded pictuers = the minority, in the particular decision

NOTE: Kennedy is pictured towards the middle, as some contend he is a 'swing' vote; but, in the major rulings of the 2009, 2009 term, where did he align when the Court splits 5-4, left-right ???

What do you think?


See, Roberts Court Shifts Right, Tipped by Kennedy

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

You're only half right, return to Clinton spending levels! Even then, Clinton managed to increase the national debt each year of his presidency so it really isn't an accomplishment, however, compared to Bush, Clinton appears to be an ultra-conservative.

Clinton slowed the rate of growth of the national debt below the rates of daddy Bush and Reagan, which was what the markets prefer. No sudden drop in the rate of growth for the economy which is what is/will happen to the economy under the Tea Bagger/Libertarian plan if they slash and burn the budget government. Look at the markets recently and the price of commodities. If the Clinton budget had been continued, many economist believe the then debt would have been paid down within 20 years post 1999, which means that we would currently be in the mists of an economic boom. But the GW tax cuts, Medicare part D, the wars and the privation of everything caused the debacle that we are experiencing today. See how much damage a stolen election can cause!

What a defeated mindset! Blacks can't compete?[/QUOTE]

Typical revisionism. Putting words in my mouth. Black folk have always competed. I can run off a whole lot more accomplishments of Black folk than you can, but I still say that the Tea Bagger/Libertarian mindset has very little benefit for us.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

What do you think?


See, Roberts Court Shifts Right, Tipped by Kennedy

You are asking aaa to critically analyze an article? If Limbaugh didn't say it he has no opinion.

 

[Lamarr]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Clinton slowed the rate of growth of the national debt below the rates of daddy Bush and Reagan, which was what the markets prefer.

Thought is tellin us about the market now......

"slowed the rate of growth" what BULLSHIT! Dawg look, the National debt increased every fuckin year of his presidency.

09/30/1999 ----- 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 ----- 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 ----- 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 ----- 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 ----- 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 ----- 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 ----- 4,411,488,883,139.38

Look at the markets recently and the price of commodities.

the f*ck can you tell me about commodities, really?

If the Clinton budget had been continued, many economist believe the then debt would have been paid down within 20 years post 1999, which means that we would currently be in the mists of an economic boom.

"many economist"......these the same muhfuckaz that didn't see the housing bubble being formed. Thanks Greenspan, Summers, Geithner, Paulson!

But the GW tax cuts, Medicare part D, the wars and the privation of everything caused the debacle that we are experiencing today.

yeah, we want Pres Obama to correct the mistakes, not continue them. We had 2 wars......now we have 4! Moreover, anyone who votes for the Patriot Act is NOT liberty-minded, therefore, keep that GOP/Libertarian 'connection' garbage. Check this out, Repeal every piece of legislation introduced from the Bush admin, that would be cool with me but...........

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

year......receipts..........expenses..........difference
1995----1,351,790--------1,515,742------ -163,952
1996----1,453,053--------1,560,484------ -107,431
1997----1,579,232--------1,601,116------ -21,884
1998----1,721,728--------1,652,458------ 69,270
1999----1,827,452--------1,701,842------ 125,610
2000----2,025,191--------1,788,950------ 236,241
2001----1,991,082--------1,862,846------ 128,236
2002----1,853,136--------2,010,894------ -157,758
2003----1,782,314--------2,159,899------ -377,585
2004----1,880,114--------2,292,841------ -412,727
2005----2,153,611--------2,471,957------ -318,346
2006----2,406,869--------2,655,050------ -248,181
2007----2,567,985--------2,728,686------ -160,701

from the charts; the expenses from the govt are rising at a faster pace than the receipts. We bout to spend 3.8 trillion this year as we incrementally move towards communism

Typical revisionism. Putting words in my mouth. Black folk have always competed. I can run off a whole lot more accomplishments of Black folk than you can, but I still say that the Tea Bagger/Libertarian mindset has very little benefit for us.

And I bet most didn't involve the assistance of the Fed Govt!

 

[actinanass]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

McCain is and always has been very much a Conservative. He had a spell where he was mad at Bush and antagonized his administration but his voting record since he's been in the Senate is very conservative.
Kennedy isn't a hardline idealogue like Scalia, Roberts, Alito, and Thomas but he's at the least Right leaning. The fact that he's not a idealogue is why Conservatives feel betrayed.

Perhaps so, but I rather call him an Independent that leans slightly to the right.

McCain is whatever he wants to be at that particular time. This is why Republicans stayed home in 2008.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Thought is tellin us about the market now......

"slowed the rate of growth" what BULLSHIT! Dawg look, the National debt increased every fuckin year of his presidency.

The debt has increased virtually every year since we were a country! You always parse my statements to try and fit your arguments. It's as if you read half of it and then respond with those same statements I debunked. I said slowed! I have posted charts like this at least three times resulting in you disappearing for a couple of days, only to return with same old crap. I said slowed. You may have not liked Clinton and the things he did while in office, but he did hand GW a balanced budget with the prospect of paying down the national debt. You don't eliminate debt within one year. The economy will blow up. just like it is threating to do now. The chart below is linear so none of that percentage of GDP stuff. I said slowed!

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Perhaps so, but I rather call him an Independent that leans slightly to the right.

McCain is whatever he wants to be at that particular time. This is why Republicans stayed home in 2008.

You can call him whatever you want, his record stands as it is.

McCain is and always has been a Conservative but he's also a bitter, vengeful man. So when he got beat by Bush, he worked hard to go against Bush and he pulled the same stunt on Obama.
Republicans stayed home? Maybe, but he's the guy they chose through their primary system. Rush and FNC should have spent more time getting by their guy than trying to pull down Obama.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

source: Las Vegas Sun


Senate blocks bill that included ethanol repeal


<!-- END .story-header -->The Associated Press
Tuesday, June 21, 2011 | 3:07 p.m.

Republicans blocked a Senate jobs bill on Tuesday that included a repeal of the ethanol tax credit. Yet ending that tax break remains a live option for budget cutters looking for ways to reduce massive federal deficits.

The Senate voted 51-49 against allowing a final vote on the overall bill, which would have renewed the Economic Development Administration for five more years. All 47 Republicans were joined by four Democrats in derailing the bill. Democrats fell 11 votes short of the 60 they needed to end the delaying tactics and move toward a vote on final passage.

The bill had attracted more than 80 amendments, mostly from Republicans, doing everything from blocking President Barack Obama's health care law to barring the prairie chicken from becoming an endangered species. Republicans complained that amendments weren't considered, while Democrats said GOP senators were opposing a measure that would have created hundreds of thousands of jobs at a time when the economy has been painfully weak.

While most amendments were never voted on, senators did vote last Thursday to end ethanol tax credits. The strong 73-27 tally to repeal the $5 billion annual subsidy, supported by majorities of both Democrats and Republicans, seemed to signal a willingness by lawmakers to end the tax break.

That was viewed as a strong message to Vice President Joe Biden and top lawmakers of both parties who have been negotiating over budget savings that could be coupled with a vote this summer to renew the government's expired authority to borrow money.

 

[actinanass]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

You can call him whatever you want, his record stands as it is.

McCain is and always has been a Conservative but he's also a bitter, vengeful man. So when he got beat by Bush, he worked hard to go against Bush and he pulled the same stunt on Obama.
Republicans stayed home? Maybe, but he's the guy they chose through their primary system. Rush and FNC should have spent more time getting by their guy than trying to pull down Obama.

I think McCain got the nomination because of a weak field that campaign season. Romney would of gave Obama a better showing. Hell, he probably had the best chance of winning.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

I think McCain got the nomination because of a weak field that campaign season. Romney would of gave Obama a better showing. Hell, he probably had the best chance of winning.

More of your learned prognostications. The field is even weaker this time around, if that's even possible. Romney's wishy wash ass would get destroyed in the generals. The media is groping for some type of legitimate republican to appeal to the national electorate. I have never seen so much media exposure given to so many extreme candidates, even during the George Wallace presidential campaign run. Wait till Mitt Runny is in an open debate with President Obama and he has to explain his prediction about the auto industry and his part in ObomneyCare.

I would like to see how ignorant I will be when Palin is running against Obama.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

I think McCain got the nomination because of a weak field that campaign season. Romney would of gave Obama a better showing. Hell, he probably had the best chance of winning.

Okay. Romney was right there and the GOP chose McCain and it looks like they're not rushing to jump on the Romney bandwagon this go around.

 

[actinanass]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

You're not too bright.

You are nitpicking my statement. Lets talk about Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac.

Why Pelosi didn't work on fixing that program that help fuck up OUR economy?

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

You are nitpicking my statement. Lets talk about Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac.

Why Pelosi didn't work on fixing that program that help fuck up OUR economy?

Let's talk about unpaid for tax cuts and wars.

 

[Lamarr]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Let's talk about unpaid for tax cuts and wars.

let's talk more debt & more Wars!

 

[actinanass]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Let's talk about unpaid for tax cuts and wars.

Deflection 101... lol

The wars were going on when jobs were around. When the banks *because of the house loans* went under, that's when it all started...

Let's talk about Pelosi failure to fix Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac...

Don't run Thought... It will only just sting....

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Deflection 101... lol

The wars were going on when jobs were around. When the banks *because of the house loans* went under, that's when it all started...

Let's talk about Pelosi failure to fix Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac...

Don't run Thought... It will only just sting....

Are you fucking delusional or are just trying to be an asshole!

source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey



<TABLE style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px" class=regular-data><CAPTION>
Series Id: LNS14000000
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Seas) Unemployment Rate
Labor force status: Unemployment rate
Type of data: Percent or rate
Age: 16 years and over
</PRE></CAPTION></TABLE></P>

 

[actinanass]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Are you fucking delusional or are just trying to be an asshole!

source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey



<TABLE style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px" class=regular-data><CAPTION>
Series Id: LNS14000000
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Seas) Unemployment Rate
Labor force status: Unemployment rate
Type of data: Percent or rate
Age: 16 years and over
</PRE></CAPTION></TABLE></P>

You still deflecting.

You are trying to tell me that two wars had more to do with the economy than two financial collapses. Your argument makes no sense.

I'll ask you this. Do you think Fannie, and Freddie should stay the way they are?

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

You still deflecting.

You are trying to tell me that two wars had more to do with the economy than two financial collapses. Your argument makes no sense.

I'll ask you this. Do you think Fannie, and Freddie should stay the way they are?

Obviously not. Fannie Mae has existed since the 1930s, Freddie Mac since the 1970s, so they had been operating in some sort of positive capacity. Fannie Mae was created to encourage home buying during the Great Depression because private banks would not readily make home loans to the average buyer. The loans were guaranteed by the federal government which meant it was ripe for corruption by speculators, just like the Savings and Loans were during the late 1980s and just as the $2 trillion Social Security tranche is now! The corruption of Fannie and Freddie surely didn't cause the Bush depression, but it didn't make it any better.

What caused the Bush depression was the unpaid for tax cuts, massive dereguation, the wars and the unbrideled specultion of Wall Street.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Obviously not. Fannie Mae has existed since the 1930s, Freddie Mac since the 1970s, so they had been operating in some sort of positive capacity. Fannie Mae was created to encourage home buying during the Great Depression because private banks would not readily make home loans to the average buyer. The loans were guaranteed by the federal government which meant it was ripe for corruption by speculators, just like the Savings and Loans were during the late 1980s and just as the $2 trillion Social Security tranche is now! The corruption of Fannie and Freddie surely didn't cause the Bush depression, but it didn't make it any better.
What caused the Bush depression was the unpaid for tax cuts, massive dereguation, the wars and the unbrideled specultion of Wall Street.

Exactly. Fannie and Freddie weren't the causes of the housing crisis but victims of it.

 

[actinanass]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

Obviously not. Fannie Mae has existed since the 1930s, Freddie Mac since the 1970s, so they had been operating in some sort of positive capacity. Fannie Mae was created to encourage home buying during the Great Depression because private banks would not readily make home loans to the average buyer. The loans were guaranteed by the federal government which meant it was ripe for corruption by speculators, just like the Savings and Loans were during the late 1980s and just as the $2 trillion Social Security tranche is now! The corruption of Fannie and Freddie surely didn't cause the Bush depression, but it didn't make it any better.

What caused the Bush depression was the unpaid for tax cuts, massive dereguation, the wars and the unbrideled specultion of Wall Street.

Exactly. Fannie and Freddie weren't the causes of the housing crisis but victims of it.

So, let me get this straight *for the record* that both Upgrade, and Thought, sees nothing wrong with Fannie/Freddie?

 

[QueEx]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

You are trying to tell me that two wars had more to do with the economy than two financial collapses. Your argument makes no sense.

If economic collapse is the subject, then you concern is what caused the economy to collapse, right ??? The two wars could be a cause; but how could the economy be a cause of the collapse of the economy ???

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo

So, let me get this straight *for the record* that both Upgrade, and Thought, sees nothing wrong with Fannie/Freddie?

I'll ask you this. Do you think Fannie, and Freddie should stay the way they are?

Obviously not.

It is interesting to use an understatement that when you have latched on to a right wing talking point you think is valid and you think is a "gotcha question"without thinking it through and you cannot interpret the answer properly.

But get this straight the unfunded tax cuts, Wall Street speculation, unfunded wars, unfunded Medicare Part D and out sourcing of American jobs are the main reason the economy went to shit!

Do you think the Pentagon budget should stay the way it is?

 

[QueEx]

Re: Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo


Is It In The Best Interest Of The GOP/Libertarians For Them To Sabotage the Econo



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