I have a valid question.
- Thread starter actinanass
- Start date
Absolutely wrong!!!
Healthcare is one services that if left totally to free market dictates, almost no one would be able to afford it. Unlike car insurance, buying a care, a house, food etc, as you grow older or actually participate in life, your olds of using health care rises. A 25 year old general has less use for medical services as compared to a 55 year old, given they both lead equally health existences. The 25 year old is the customer the heathcare industry markets least to, except if recreational drugs become legal and then, watch out for the bombardment of marketing and then corresponding drugs to counter the dissipation (ain't capitalism grand!)
Not that I agree with it, but health insurance was designed to spread the risk around of the costs. It is inefficient and it does ad layers of bureaucracy to the system, but barring the most efficient method of distributing health care, a national single payer system similar to what the Veterans Administration or Medicare uses, it is difficult to cover everyone efficiently. That is why the republicans can never offer an alternative to their system President Obama got implemented. A single payer system would be the best way to distribute the cost of health care.
Yep. But the one way they could make health insurance more similar and affordable like car insurance is lifting their anti-trust exemptions.
Yea, there are a number of things they can do. Allow the government to negotiate directly with the drug companies. This has been expressly forbidden in Medicare Modernization Act of 2003. This would substantially lower drug prices in Medicare because of the large bulk purchases by Medicare.
No doubt protections given to health care concerns do raise costs. Obamacare is not perfect by any means, but at least the conversation is been moved forward.
responding to EVERYTHING you post would contradict the fact that I do not want to debate health care anymore. That's why I'm not responding to everything. I meant what the fuck I said.
We're talking about you're vision of reality. If a person does not agree with you're vision, they're not seeing the "true" reality. Typical wording...
That's cool man... we don't need to debate this stuff. On my "reality" comments... I mean it. This isn't a religious debate about issues that have little to no facts that are available for corroboration. In matters of spirit... faith makes sense. In matters of policy and politics, where there are actual facts available for inquiry and investigation "faith" seems kind of inappropriate. Either your pov is solid enough to withstand inquiry or it isn't.
I apply this to myself as well.... if a political/policy idea doesn't stand up to scrutiny then it's not worth supporting.
Yo Actin,
I have a valid question (whatever a "valid question" means):
If the fee the Affordable Care Act imposes for failure to obtain insurance is a tax instead of a penalty, doesn't that mean that Mitt Romney taxed the shit out of the people of Massachusetts through RomneyCare which has a similar individual mandate ? ? ?
Perhaps he did. It does not make it right. Unlike Obama, I know that my side can pressure Romney into doing the right thing. Thus, not making them the same like you are trying to make a case for.
It was a yes or no question (if the penalty is a tax, Romney either taxed the shit out of Massachusetts or he didn't) -- but you tried desperately to nuance it. Once again, I knew when you said this:
I knew . . .
Pressure him into doing what they want? Maybe but, like EVERY other President, a President Romney would drift to the center because he would have to. Anyone believing different is absolutely politically ignorant.
cute. Did you do that one by yourself?
It was a yes or no question (if the penalty is a tax, Romney either taxed the shit out of Massachusetts or he didn't) -- but you tried desperately to nuance it. Once again, I knew when you said this:
I knew . . .
To me, a penalty, and a tax is the same thing. So, therefore, Romney did tax the citizens of Mass. However, with the current structure of the Republican party, and the fact that majority *in nearly every poll out right now* does not support the health care act, Romney will have to repeal it. If not, it would literally destroy the republican party. Yeah, it's that serious.
Pressure him into doing what they want? Maybe but, like EVERY other President, a President Romney would drift to the center because he would have to. Anyone believing different is absolutely politically ignorant.
No one is saying that he would stay to the right ALL the time. Quit with the straw man arguments.
Most polls show the public to be against the health care reform bill but all those same polls show each portion of it to be very popular so when he talks about repealing it (which is HIGHLY UNLIKELY unless the Republicans regain the Senate as well with a 60 vote majority), the fact that he and his party have no answer to how they'll replace those laws (the only part that's unpopular is the mandate) leaves them vulnerable.
The hard swing to the right is a far greater threat to the Republican party than anything else.
No one is saying that he would stay to the right ALL the time. Quit with the straw man arguments.
No straw man argument at all, just countering what you typed. So what would be the "right thing" if not a "conserative" answer from your perspective?
Most polls show the public to be against the health care reform bill but all those same polls show each portion of it to be very popular so when he talks about repealing it (which is HIGHLY UNLIKELY unless the Republicans regain the Senate as well with a 60 vote majority), the fact that he and his party have no answer to how they'll replace those laws (the only part that's unpopular is the mandate) leaves them vulnerable.
The hard swing to the right is a far greater threat to the Republican party than anything else.
So what would be the "right thing" if not a "conserative" answer from your perspective?
1. This is why I don't want to talk health care on here. The whole premise that the republicans do not have a counterpart to Obamacare is ridiculous. Now, I've been on this forum long enough to know how this game is played. I post something that contradicts you're statement. That's when either Thoughtone, or Que would get tagged in on how bad that position would work. Thus, back to stage one.
2. If you say so...
3. I believe a free market solution is the best solution. I'm sorry that I have more faith in the American people than you. It must suck being cynical all the time.
What is the alternative, specifically? I wouldn't talk it either if the person I'm debating is speaking specifically and all I have are big general proposals with no specifics.
What does that even mean?
We have a free market solution right now and it's one of the worst in the word and the worst in the developed world (unless you're rich).
Believing in free markets has nothing to do with faith in the American people (what the hell does that mean, too?) but I would loved for you to show me the connection.
You obviously think I'm stupid, or you didn't read what I typed a post ago. There's no point in bringing out the alternative because you, thought, and que will only talk it down. It's rather clear what you three want. Not to mention, I said I wasn't going to talk health care. I meant what I said.
There we go with the "if you are rich" comment. Don't call yourself an independent dude.
I read it and while I don't think you're stupid, your posts can be.
Can't speak for Que or thought but if you put forth an alternative, I will look at it critically. Should I not? Should I just co-sign it to make you feel better? If ideas can't stand up to a challenge, they aren't good ideas.
I'm very much indepedent and I'm an Independent. Where am I incorrect when stating that if you're rich, you have great health care? Is this not true? Do rich people not have greater access to better care than working class people?
LMAO @ the woe-is-me stance of the "persecuted".
Republicans claim they are victims of the so called Main Stream Media, yet they tell everyone else to take responsibility of your own actions.
Hypocrites!
Dammit Thought, it's hard enough to get him to participate.
Oh, you can bet he reads these posts. All of the republicans/libertarians/conservatives do. Next time look at a thread's views and then the number of posts. The truth scares them off. Ideology is a muthfucka!
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