I Have A New-Found Respect For NBA Players. God Damn!
- Thread starter 8SD8-retired_member
- Start date
I try to tell people this on the regular... you have NO IDEA how good you have to be to play in the NBA. Just to be be a scrub, you have to have game that makes regular peopleif they saw you in a regular game. When you start talking about guys at the top of the game... Wade, Kobe, Lebron, and so on
you may laugh at a guy like JJ Barea or Carlos Arroyo, but they'll bust your ass if you see them at the Y
To me, I've always wondered what the real DIFFERENCE was between the ELITES and the average to below average players? I've seen some below average NBA dudes, and I just can't see how you can actually be any better - or that much more skilled.
It's like, if the average dude had a chance to see someone like Nate Robinson ball, they'd swear you can't get much better. How much more can the elite players do with their bodies and the ball - when these other motherfuckers are already on some next shit?
This is what blows your mind. I was at a Falcons practice when we had Vick, and I was friends with Brett Perriman when he played for the Lions. I watched these guys run full speed close up, and I walked away wondering why these guys weren't deemed illegal. It's one thing to be at the next level, it's another to be considered fast, elite, or great at the next level. Just like I was saying earlier, Mark Price saw dudes who were double covered as open. This was when he still played for Ga. Tech. That shit is scary.
Were you able to see the real separation?
Or do you think the biggest difference is in confidence and not ability? I guess I have a hard time thinking there is just a big difference between the greats and the average dudes because there has to be some human limit to this shit.
Chipper Jones once told me that most times the game "slows down" for him, and he can shit see almost before it happens. He said that it really wasn't that way, but it was how it seemed, and 7 times out of 10, he was right. When I ran point, I felt that even if you were on death row, I could get you the ball. Price was on some other shit. I think it was a combination of both confidence and ability.
Last edited:
there is a difference in overall talent. its more than just mental. people like jordan and lebron kobe magic etc the game is an extension of them that's why they're elite. like how the scrubs can knock down jumpers and do all this stuff and everyone is wondering why they're not stars. its because the stars are really that much better. its a part of them, its not shooting its just what they do. like how jason kidd dribbles the ball or how zeke dribbled like the ball is on a string. its cause they have ultimate control. to have ultimate control in your sport is what makes you better than those who just happen to be able to play.
in baseball...having played and been good at it this is true.
when you're up to bat its not rocket science how people think it is. honestly when the pitcher throws the ball, though from the outside it looks like half a second before it gets to the plate, when you're in the batter box it seems like forever. like i see the wind up, see the pitch, see the release, see the spin of the ball so i know what type of pitch it is, see where its going to end up, start my bat movement towards where it should meet at the plate, keep looking at the ball all the way until it actually connects with the bat..like literally looking at the ball when it hits the fat part of the bat, follow through and then see where it goes.
all of that is going on in your head in that 1 second from pitcher delivery to swing
I am from Chicago and played high school ball from 95-99 during the golden era of chicago hoops (93-01) and I'll tell you this, those average to below average motherfuckers were insanely good. My junior year we played against quentin richardson (whitney Young) when they were #1 in the country.
this nigga q-rich, who played the 3, was the most insanely good player i had ever been on the court with. he had an off day like 5-16 and ended up with 28 points and 24 boards.
that nigga was flat out stronger than everybody in the gym, i couldnt box him out and this nigga jumped out the gym. i vividly remember blocking his dunk at the rim. he kept going up and dunked on me. i mean i played only about ten minutes and fouled out. i never felt that helpless on the court as we were the same height. that nigga must've got 20 points on the line.
he turned out to be just an average player.
those were the days in chicago (Kevin garnett, Pierre Pierce, Melvin Ely, Leon Thompson, larry alaway, ronnie fields, michael wright, imari sawyer, shawn marion, paul mcpherson, quentin richardson, bobby simmons, lance williams and the list goes on. notice a lot of the niggas i mentioned never went pro.
Chicago was huge in high school basketball during that time. the bulls were winning championships but a nigga like ronnie fields had more pub than niggas on the bulls. i remember going to the IIT tournament in the summer and watching shawn marion, in high school, do scottie pippen.
This will tell you how good basketball was in chicago was during this era. A nigga like d-wade was virtually unheard of until his senior year and was only recruited to marquette, depaul and illinois state.
this nigga q-rich, who played the 3, was the most insanely good player i had ever been on the court with. he had an off day like 5-16 and ended up with 28 points and 24 boards.
that nigga was flat out stronger than everybody in the gym, i couldnt box him out and this nigga jumped out the gym. i vividly remember blocking his dunk at the rim. he kept going up and dunked on me. i mean i played only about ten minutes and fouled out. i never felt that helpless on the court as we were the same height. that nigga must've got 20 points on the line.
he turned out to be just an average player.
those were the days in chicago (Kevin garnett, Pierre Pierce, Melvin Ely, Leon Thompson, larry alaway, ronnie fields, michael wright, imari sawyer, shawn marion, paul mcpherson, quentin richardson, bobby simmons, lance williams and the list goes on. notice a lot of the niggas i mentioned never went pro.
Chicago was huge in high school basketball during that time. the bulls were winning championships but a nigga like ronnie fields had more pub than niggas on the bulls. i remember going to the IIT tournament in the summer and watching shawn marion, in high school, do scottie pippen.
This will tell you how good basketball was in chicago was during this era. A nigga like d-wade was virtually unheard of until his senior year and was only recruited to marquette, depaul and illinois state.
Dion Glover went to my high school (not at the same time), and I talked to Coach Dill, who said, "He'll make it to the NBA, but he won't stick. He's one of the best players I've ever had, but those guys in the NBA are scary good, and I don't think he's there."
And the way the athletes handle themselves when they're not playing plays a part with a lot of them. Some guys just stay in shape while others, especially as the years go by, don't. Or there are the players that coast on their natural ability, they've been the best player on the court for years and never challenged, and those that keep trying to improve and seek out challenges.
Never was a Jordan fan but when he said the year the Bulls met the Trailblazers in the Finals that he took it as a personal thing between him and Clyde Drexler, even though Clyde did not, that told me a lot about Jordan and what separates him.
I'm a huge boxing fan and on one hand you have Floyd Mayweather and Bernard Hopkins who stay in shape year-round, whether there's a fight or not. Then there are the Kelly Pavlik, Jermain Taylor, and Ricky Hatton, guys who have something but let themselves balloon up and have to get into shape.
Never was a Jordan fan but when he said the year the Bulls met the Trailblazers in the Finals that he took it as a personal thing between him and Clyde Drexler, even though Clyde did not, that told me a lot about Jordan and what separates him.
I'm a huge boxing fan and on one hand you have Floyd Mayweather and Bernard Hopkins who stay in shape year-round, whether there's a fight or not. Then there are the Kelly Pavlik, Jermain Taylor, and Ricky Hatton, guys who have something but let themselves balloon up and have to get into shape.
My theory on it is mental mixed with a bit of physical, what I mean is when you've been "the shit" for so long you almost have to adjust to areas of your game when you get to the NBA that you could ignore before because other areas of your game were just that dominant. In the league every team has a player just like you, but what sets you apart is what you work on in the off-season to come back better, something both Mike and that bitch Kobe (hate him but respect his game) did and look at how they are regarded. Have you ever peeped the NCAA scoring champs over the years, man some of these dudes can't hit shit in the NBA but just one level down they were scoring machines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_season_scoring_leaders
I grew up with AJ Guyton in Illinois and at about 9th grade we saw his ability reach levels every year after that until he went to Indiana we knew nobody locally (except Frank Williams) was coming close to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_season_scoring_leaders
I grew up with AJ Guyton in Illinois and at about 9th grade we saw his ability reach levels every year after that until he went to Indiana we knew nobody locally (except Frank Williams) was coming close to.
I agree. Got alot of respect for pros in all sports. Talent, discipline, focus & skill. Being able to block out the noise/crowd/distractions/intense pressure. Hell ... one of my funniest moments in high school was playing at the local church gym. They had an Olympic-sized court there. Great playing surface & hoops. We were playing rec' ball at lunch hour there for years and I remember going out one day and draining 9 straight 3's from the left corner. Straight nailin' those shots one after the other. People were in awe. Got myself on the court next day with a small crowd and the pressure of playing league play against REAL opponents and I got my first look and tried to pull a Jordan-over-Ehlo jumper at the top of the free throw line, and I bricked that shit OFF THE LEFT CORNER OF THE GLASS BACKBOARD and that shit went out of bounds. Straight garbage. I ran around for the rest of the time playing defense and didn't want to shoot anything ... nice shorties in the crowd and shit. Straight embarassing. And I called THAT "pressure"? I was ashamed of myself at 15/16yo
He is not an NBA player but when I was in high school me and the boys went into Okla St. gym to play ball and the starting pg for them Doug Gottlieb (guy that be on ESPN) was already in there shooting and wanted to play with us. Well Doug was known to suck at shooting if you saw him play for Okla St.
This white dude was killin us from behind the 3 point line. He would do a cross and just pull money almost every time. His team never lost that day. Made us realize a shitty D1 college player is still pretty good to regular/high school kids. DOUG FUCKING GOTTLIEB people.
This white dude was killin us from behind the 3 point line. He would do a cross and just pull money almost every time. His team never lost that day. Made us realize a shitty D1 college player is still pretty good to regular/high school kids. DOUG FUCKING GOTTLIEB people.
I have..and that shit is ridiculous... they will make your local playground legends look like straight bums and do it while half-ass playing and laughing...
In the pregame warm ups, Chuck Nevitt (look him up), used to knock down 20 footers like they were fucking layups....and that muthfuckas only got some burn when the Pistons were up by fucking 30
Confidence has lots to do with it..but some of them have more ability that has just been molded over years of dedication.
I went to an Isiah Thomas basketball camp as a good for a few days..even had a chance to play with him and just watch him play close up for days...other nba players were there as well..
His handles were just fucking ridiculous. His dribbling ability was just unparalleled. Im not talking about that God Shamgod playground shit.... just pure effective ball-handling...he did shit with the rock that other players just couldnt do in their wildest dreams and he did it with ease at the top level.
Ive seen Barry Sanders live several times up close.... dude is short but he is built like a fucking mack truck....he doesnt look `normal` physically...and again... the things he did on the football field were just not normal...that type of quickness and agility is really one in 100,000,000 humans man... some professional athletes are freaks of nature..
you have cats like Jerry Rice that are just perfectionists and it is their relentless dedication that does it...
but some athletes physically are just built definitely than the rest of us and are just physically more gifted than even other top athletes.
Last edited:
He is not an NBA player but when I was in high school me and the boys went into Okla St. gym to play ball and the starting pg for them Doug Gottlieb (guy that be on ESPN) was already in there shooting and wanted to play with us. Well Doug was known to suck at shooting if you saw him play for Okla St.
Yeah man..i remember hooping with some cats at Michigan that never got any burn while playing for the Wolverines and dude was out there acting out....doing 360s and shit during the game...mofo was a forward who never hit a shot beyond 16 feet his entire college career and was pulling fadeaway threes from the corner and shit like it was nothing
But what about a cat like Mahmoud Abdul Rauf?
Dude never averaged twenty in the league, and he's a 44 percent shooter...
...but dude had a mental disorder that made him shoot hundreds of shots, and he couldn't leave until he did everything perfectly. The ball not touching the rim was one of the ridiculous goals that his disorder set FOR him. Dude would CRY because he wanted to leave the court, but he couldn't.
Now Mahmoud was no slouch in the pro's, but how a dude with that level of dedication to the shooting - voluntary or not - shoots 44 percent is beyond me.
I think you are asking if some people, regardless of dedication, just have more ability than others.
I dont know if you can compare Rauf to Rice because supposedly Rice was one of the hardest working athletes ever...not just dedication to his craft(position)and during practive...but supposedly his offseason workouts were murder...
but i get your point..i think you are asking if some people are just inately better than others...
man...Iverson didnt start taking basketball seriously into late in high school...he wanted to play football and some cats said he is still the best football player they have ever seen play live..
and then look at how well he fucking played basketball...and that no caring about practice shit is real.... dude is notorious for not working out, horrible eating habits, etc.. and he could just run all fucking day... maybe the quickest player etc...
some cats just have more ability than others...and some also have the extra dedication wherethey just live the sport... M.J., Kobe, etc that really only cared about ball while playing professionally..
i dont think there is some magic formula...a bit different for everyone.... but some of these cats are just fucking gifted... fuckers
I think you are asking if some people, regardless of dedication, just have more ability than others.
I dont know if you can compare Rauf to Rice because supposedly Rice was one of the hardest working athletes ever...not just dedication to his craft(position)and during practive...but supposedly his offseason workouts were murder...
but i get your point..i think you are asking if some people are just inately better than others...
man...Iverson didnt start taking basketball seriously into late in high school...he wanted to play football and some cats said he is still the best football player they have ever seen play live..
and then look at how well he fucking played basketball...and that no caring about practice shit is real.... dude is notorious for not working out, horrible eating habits, etc.. and he could just run all fucking day... maybe the quickest player etc...
some cats just have more ability than others...and some also have the extra dedication wherethey just live the sport... M.J., Kobe, etc that really only cared about ball while playing professionally..
i dont think there is some magic formula...a bit different for everyone.... but some of these cats are just fucking gifted... fuckers
I feel you, but...
...can you REALLY be gifted to the point that you can be a STAR in the NBA and not have a work ethic? When you consider that the NBA is loaded with talented people that DO have a work ethic...
...it's hard to believe that Iverson didn't put in the work - especially considering his size. I guess it's possible, it's just hard to wrap my mind around that.
Maybe Iverson should've practiced more. He was a POOR shooter throughout his career.
Ive made tons of arguments about how poor of a shooter Iverson was throughout his career so you dont need to tell me. His lack of dedication ruined what could have possibly been a really spectacular career...now he wont even be considered up there with the real greats
However, considering how late in age he actually considered basketball as a profession, his size, and lack of real dedication,etc.... that illustrates just how physically gifted he was in terms of speed and athleticism because it certainly wasnt his size, pure shooting ability, or basketball IQ that was putting him over the top
This is not work habit but Chris Carter said he knew Moss was a freak of nature when he came to the game after partying all night and he got to the stadium just before cut-off time and pulled out a paper bag....and Carter was like WTF are you doing? and he was like having lunch (because he hadnt eaten all day)...and he drank a coke ate a bag of chips and threw his gear on....and went out and scored 3 TDs and had over 200 yards...
some athletes really are just that much better than everyone else where their 50 percent effort is better than MOST of everyone at 100 percent..
That's damning with faint praise.
here's my take on NBA players...
one of my best friends was a b-ball player for SMU back in 87 - 90.
he would let me watch their practices, and one day, they practiced against the dallas mavericks... mark aguire, rolando blackman, etc.
during the practice... i bullshit you NOT... dat nicca mark aguire missed his first shot.
not a free throw, layup, mid-range jumper, 20 footer. NOTHING.
i had the opportunity to ask him, "hey aguire, how did you do that?" he said, "i'm a professional... i can make them when i want... but i can also miss them when i want.
"
bottom line: the NBA is full of sharp shooters. it's DEFENSE that culls mofos out the league. and it's a LACK of defense for why i don't like players like carmelo anthony: he didn't play defense in college, and he doesn't even TRY to play defense in the pros, and because of that, he'll never win a title-not as the leader of any team.
one of my best friends was a b-ball player for SMU back in 87 - 90.
he would let me watch their practices, and one day, they practiced against the dallas mavericks... mark aguire, rolando blackman, etc.
during the practice... i bullshit you NOT... dat nicca mark aguire missed his first shot.
and for the next 2.5 hours, that nicca did NOT miss a single shot.
not a free throw, layup, mid-range jumper, 20 footer. NOTHING.
i had the opportunity to ask him, "hey aguire, how did you do that?" he said, "i'm a professional... i can make them when i want... but i can also miss them when i want.
"bottom line: the NBA is full of sharp shooters. it's DEFENSE that culls mofos out the league. and it's a LACK of defense for why i don't like players like carmelo anthony: he didn't play defense in college, and he doesn't even TRY to play defense in the pros, and because of that, he'll never win a title-not as the leader of any team.
What we often forget is the dedication (aside from your natural talents) it takes to maintain your place on an NBA roster. Never mind the insane amount of practice & work habit it takes to also maintain being the best at what you do.
This Ray Allen article says it all.. Dude's eyes are like a cyborg. He can instinctively zoom in on the distance & perfect angle to the rim in order to get off a shot effortlessy, picture perfectly all in a matter of milliseconds
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...6&format=&page=1&listingType=celt#articleFull
WALTHAM — Ray Allen needs 27 3-pointers to pass Reggie Miller for the most in NBA history. At 35, he’s posting the best shooting percentages of his career. And he’s connecting on an absurd 63.6 percent from long range this month.
Considering those numbers and observing his picture-perfect form, it would be understandable to think Allen’s shooting success has come easy. It also would be a mistake.
Doc Rivers says the first mistake is focusing on Allen’s release. The Celtics [team stats] coach said Allen’s success begins much lower.
“Everyone always looks at the form, but I think the key to Ray Allen is his footwork is absolutely tremendous,” Rivers said. “Ray’s feet are just amazing — how well he can come off a pick (and) in little time get his feet set and still get the shot up.”
Allen always had good footwork, but he improved it after he had surgery to remove bone spurs in his ankles in 2007. During his rehabilitation, Allen’s physical therapist wanted to tweak his running style to limit the pounding on his ankles. In the process, Allen made an important discovery.
“We actually went on the court and he wanted to see when I’m coming from the left side and when I’m coming from the right side and how I’m turning,” Allen said. “As I was going through that, I understood that using my right eye how much quicker I am from one side to the other.”
Allen’s right eye is dominant, which makes it easier for him to size up shots when his right eye is closer to the basket. That’s why he doesn’t need his body completely squared up when he comes off a pick on the left side of the court.
Armed with that knowledge, Allen worked to be equally adept on the opposite side of the court.
“Once I understood that, shooting became so much easier because I knew where I needed to be quicker,” Allen said. “Then to level it off I did the same thing on both sides so I wouldn’t have any deficiencies on one side or the other.”
It’s impossible to find a deficiency now. Allen added the footwork to a lightning-quick release he learned he would need early in his career.
“In college you might not have to shoot as fast — you get more space, but they play faster,” Allen said. “Guys are bigger in the league so you try to see where screens come from, you see the gaps and you have to get there quick and you have to get your shot up. You know what you’re going to get and you just work on it over and over again.”
With Allen, it always comes back to his work ethic. Rivers has gained a deeper appreciation for Allen’s consistency during their four years together.
“You appreciate the work more, and obviously that’s what brings the consistency,” Rivers said. “I knew Ray, but I didn’t know a lot about him until I coached him. Ray is just a pro.”
It was fitting that as Rivers delivered those words, Allen was putting up some post-practice shots.
“I’ve been doing this for 15 years now in the NBA, and the court hasn’t changed. Nothing’s changed,” Allen said. “I just have to stay ahead of the game a little bit more because I may not be as quick as I used to be.”
This Ray Allen article says it all.. Dude's eyes are like a cyborg. He can instinctively zoom in on the distance & perfect angle to the rim in order to get off a shot effortlessy, picture perfectly all in a matter of milliseconds
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...6&format=&page=1&listingType=celt#articleFull
WALTHAM — Ray Allen needs 27 3-pointers to pass Reggie Miller for the most in NBA history. At 35, he’s posting the best shooting percentages of his career. And he’s connecting on an absurd 63.6 percent from long range this month.
Considering those numbers and observing his picture-perfect form, it would be understandable to think Allen’s shooting success has come easy. It also would be a mistake.
Doc Rivers says the first mistake is focusing on Allen’s release. The Celtics [team stats] coach said Allen’s success begins much lower.
“Everyone always looks at the form, but I think the key to Ray Allen is his footwork is absolutely tremendous,” Rivers said. “Ray’s feet are just amazing — how well he can come off a pick (and) in little time get his feet set and still get the shot up.”
Allen always had good footwork, but he improved it after he had surgery to remove bone spurs in his ankles in 2007. During his rehabilitation, Allen’s physical therapist wanted to tweak his running style to limit the pounding on his ankles. In the process, Allen made an important discovery.
“We actually went on the court and he wanted to see when I’m coming from the left side and when I’m coming from the right side and how I’m turning,” Allen said. “As I was going through that, I understood that using my right eye how much quicker I am from one side to the other.”
Allen’s right eye is dominant, which makes it easier for him to size up shots when his right eye is closer to the basket. That’s why he doesn’t need his body completely squared up when he comes off a pick on the left side of the court.
Armed with that knowledge, Allen worked to be equally adept on the opposite side of the court.
“Once I understood that, shooting became so much easier because I knew where I needed to be quicker,” Allen said. “Then to level it off I did the same thing on both sides so I wouldn’t have any deficiencies on one side or the other.”
It’s impossible to find a deficiency now. Allen added the footwork to a lightning-quick release he learned he would need early in his career.
“In college you might not have to shoot as fast — you get more space, but they play faster,” Allen said. “Guys are bigger in the league so you try to see where screens come from, you see the gaps and you have to get there quick and you have to get your shot up. You know what you’re going to get and you just work on it over and over again.”
With Allen, it always comes back to his work ethic. Rivers has gained a deeper appreciation for Allen’s consistency during their four years together.
“You appreciate the work more, and obviously that’s what brings the consistency,” Rivers said. “I knew Ray, but I didn’t know a lot about him until I coached him. Ray is just a pro.”
It was fitting that as Rivers delivered those words, Allen was putting up some post-practice shots.
“I’ve been doing this for 15 years now in the NBA, and the court hasn’t changed. Nothing’s changed,” Allen said. “I just have to stay ahead of the game a little bit more because I may not be as quick as I used to be.”
Last edited:
here's my take on NBA players...
one of my best friends was a b-ball player for SMU back in 87 - 90.
he would let me watch their practices, and one day, they practiced against the dallas mavericks... mark aguire, rolando blackman, etc.
during the practice... i bullshit you NOT... dat nicca mark aguire missed his first shot.
and for the next 2.5 hours, that nicca did NOT miss a single shot.
not a free throw, layup, mid-range jumper, 20 footer. NOTHING.
i had the opportunity to ask him, "hey aguire, how did you do that?" he said, "i'm a professional... i can make them when i want... but i can also miss them when i want.
bottom line: the NBA is full of sharp shooters. it's DEFENSE that culls mofos out the league. and it's a LACK of defense for why i don't like players like carmelo anthony: he didn't play defense in college, and he doesn't even TRY to play defense in the pros, and because of that, he'll never win a title-not as the leader of any team.
Hey this is a good thread... The above is some real shit
I also seen kenny smith make 20+ jumpers, miss one then make 20 more in a row... I caught the end of one his workouts at a houston gym when I was in high school back in the 90's, made me realize a lot... NBA cats gotta be automatic with the jumper
Kenny was making 3's like they was lay ups
Dam I had jump to jump in this thread and tell you cats my experience with Daniel Ewing (played with the Clippers) and T.J Ford (current NBA player). I grew up in Missouri City, Texas which is basically right next to Houston and went to Willowridge High School my freshman and half of my sophmore year. I'm a few years older than both T.J and Daniel but I had played a couple pick up games with and against these cats when they were still going to Willowridge and all I could say is these cats weren't human
Man I'm like 5'9 and T.J Ford was just slightly taller than me and this cat was lobbing the ball off the backboard and dunking like he was using one of those kiddie goals. And Daniel Ewing was a fucking beast with the handles and his shot. I actually thought that Daniel Ewing was going to be better than T.J but his size in the league wasn't good enough to play 2 guard (his better position). The thing that stick out with both T.J and Daniel was that these cats were just quicker than everybody and both could jump out the gym. There were some street ball legends and great players to come out of Missouri city but the shit I saw T.J Ford and Daniel Ewing do was beyond legendary and these cats turned out to be just average players in the NBA. Man to make it the NBA you truly have to be gifted.
Man I'm like 5'9 and T.J Ford was just slightly taller than me and this cat was lobbing the ball off the backboard and dunking like he was using one of those kiddie goals. And Daniel Ewing was a fucking beast with the handles and his shot. I actually thought that Daniel Ewing was going to be better than T.J but his size in the league wasn't good enough to play 2 guard (his better position). The thing that stick out with both T.J and Daniel was that these cats were just quicker than everybody and both could jump out the gym. There were some street ball legends and great players to come out of Missouri city but the shit I saw T.J Ford and Daniel Ewing do was beyond legendary and these cats turned out to be just average players in the NBA. Man to make it the NBA you truly have to be gifted.
Co-sign, except for Smush Parker.
Great thread, I'll have to read all the way through it some time.
Similar threads
