How exactly did BOYZ II MEN fall off?

[prowess]

Its bigger than anyone mentioned imo. Even if you are Prince and you write, compose, produce, arrange, and perform everything, all recording companies these days are up against publishing and promotion costs versus me you and bit torrents et al. Profit margins squeezed r&b groups out

 

[4 Dimensional]

the 90's was a good era for r&b,,, but if you notice, r&b really died after the year 2000,,, after that, rap dominated the Black music charts,,, so they were really just casualties of 90's r&b (along with so many other good singers from the 90's),,, outside of mary j & usher, not too many others made it past 2000

my sentiments as well

 

[geist]

Rap and R&B became indistinguishable and they didn't adapt.

 

[TEN]

Rap and R&B became indistinguishable and they didn't adapt.

Thank God they didn't.

by the way Boyz II Men are still going now, still touring and releasing albums.

more than can be said for a lot of their peers of that era.

 

[daman200]

Shawn should have done a solo CD....He had a few singles that were tight.

 

[unknownsoldier]

1. they had poor management (say hello to Mike Bivins, the secret 5th member of b2m) which lead to reasons number 2 -4

2. they signed with Motown

3. they signed with Motown

4. they signed with Motown

If B2M had proper management and signed with Sony or Arista in the 90s it is very likely they woulod still be cranking out music direct to soft rock /lite fm radio stations

The beef w/ Motown is what did them in.

 

[Blunt]

The beef w/ Motown is what did them in.

More like a lack of fresh hits (and aging). Same as with anyone.

 

[the artist]

One of the things that contributed to their decline wasd the fact that they got in fights with Mike, and eventually kicked him out the group...The even worse part about it is, Big Mike developed MS if Im not mistaken..Its a sad ironic type of thing, because he used to always come out with the cane, and nowadays he really needs it

He actually needed it when he used it on stage back then. He'd medicate prior to coming to stage. He has scoliosis which gave him severe back pain.

 

[The Pope]

once they started hitting the casinos and putting out cds with nothing but remakes on it, it was a wrap for them but they are still together which cant be said for a lot of groups these days.

 

[Joe Money]

Neo has that classic R&B vibe, but other than that, I can't really think of too many cats right now who are unequivocally R&B artists without any gimmicky vibe to it. I'm like Steve Harvey, "nobody sang about looove no mo!"

Maxwell, Raheem DeVaughn...there are a few still out there.

 

[Joe Money]

Shawn should have done a solo CD....He had a few singles that were tight.

He did but it was never released.

 

[richlove]

I won't go through this whole thread to see if anybody said this already..but after the On Bended Knee and End of the Road mega success..and I remember this because I remember thinking how dumb they were being...B2M wanted more creative control over their projects as far as producing, writing, ideas period. In other words making maybe 1 million to every Babyface's 4 or 5 got to their ego's. They should have just road the gravy train instead of trying to be the conductors.

 

[Brother Blaque]

Why hasn't Prince had a hit since the mid-'90s, or Stevie Wonder since the mid-'80s???

It's because Prince and Stevie Wonder are legends and don't have worry about having to produce hits records anymore.

BOYZ II Men are not even close to being in the same category as Stevie Wonder or Prince.​

 

[Blunt]

It's because Prince and Stevie Wonder are legends and don't have worry about having to produce hits records anymore.

But they keep trying, by releasing singles that no one wants to listen to. They'd LOVE to have another hit single. But their audiences have aged and moved on. Same with Boyz II Men's.

BOYZ II Men are not even close to being in the same category as Stevie Wonder or Prince.

You're right, they've actually had BIGGER hits then either of them.

 

[catalina74]

i dont know but they sold over 60 million and have been doin crazy work in vegas at the flamingo. and if you got a spot in vegas youre doin ok. i dont why they fell off the charts

 

[Brother Blaque]

But they keep trying, by releasing singles that no one wants to listen to. They'd LOVE to have another hit single. But their audiences have aged and moved on. Same with Boyz II Men's.

You're right, they've actually had BIGGER hits then either of them.​

That's not even debatable....Stevie Wonder's music catalog is on par with the Beatles.

Both Prince and Stevie can live comfortably off the music they've written for OTHER artists not just themselves.

Boyz II Men can't say that.

I don't know about Stevie or Prince but I'd bet Boyz II men would LOVE to have a hit single right about now. ​

 

[BigDaddyBuk]

It's called in fighting, drugs, ego, bad song selection, ego, money mismanagment, ego...did I say ego?

agreed. emphasis on GREED. they kicked Mike out the group cause he was sick for ONE performance. karma is a bitch.

 

[c_commander]

You had groups like Dru Hill that came on the scene. I don't think they fell off at all. In our generation the top groups were Dru Hill, Jodeci, Boyz II men, and Jagged Edge. After Jodeci and Boyz II Men stopped making albums to take time off Dru Hill held down the crown. At this point music as a whole started to shift.

Singers no longer had to sing and rappers no longer had to be lyrical. Then you got your B2K's of the world who could only dance and look cute but very limited vocal ability. No one is pushing fortrue talent. You got rappers bragging about how they don't write and R&B artists who entire routine is to take off their shirt. Is there any R&B group out that is signed?

That's the thing that has me disappointed.During the 90's there were good male and female R&B groups coming out consistently to the point where good groups would break up after 1 or 2 CDs due to in fighting and not reaching stardom because other groups were in the way(Jade who couldn't overcome TLC for example).Now there's nothing.I can think of 2 female groups RichGirl and Electrik Red and that's it as for groups who could be labeled R&B.I guess this is part of the major price to be paid for music thinking money above all else and devaluing talent.

 

[Blunt]

That's not even debatable....Stevie Wonder's music catalog is on par with the Beatles.

Not even close.

Both Prince and Stevie can live comfortably off the music they've written for OTHER artists not just themselves.

That's not the question. They haven't "retired," so they're still looking to sell albums and have hits. And the point was that both of them "fell off" as well from their prime hitmaking years way back in the '80s (for Stevie) and early '90s (for Prince). They were still trying back then to keep up the pace, and didn't. Very few artists can maintain the same status decade after decade. Boyz II Men were more successful and have lasted longer than 99% of R&B groups.

Boyz II Men can't say that.

They've sold 27M albums in the U.S. alone (same as Jay-Z), so they've done pretty well.

I don't know about Stevie or Prince but I'd bet Boyz II men would LOVE to have a hit single right about now.

Boyz II Men HAVE had a POP hit as recently as '99 and an R&B hit as recently as 2007. Neither Prince nor Stevie can say that.

 

[BGLR1212000]

Name the last time a group stayed together.

 

[B-Witty]

Music changed.. people change the game has changed... simply put groups ae not in no more...... once 2000 hit groups hit the road! look at music today... can u name 5 groups in r&b male or female that make current albums and get steady radio play? NOPE

Times have changed and its a shame becuz groups are needed big time in music. .dis young generation is so lost its not even funny... They dont know what REAL MUSIC IS or what a real SANGING GRoup is..... argh I digress... smh

 

[Blunt]

Times have changed and its a shame becuz groups are needed big time in music. .dis young generation is so lost its not even funny... They dont know what REAL MUSIC IS or what a real SANGING GRoup is..... argh I digress... smh

Typical old man rant. Heard it every decade from the '50 through the '00s.

 

[DiamondDeuce]

Every group has a season.

Music changed.

Rap & R&B became indistiguishable as someone mentioned earlier. The R&B groups that were popping up in the late 90's early 2000's were more HARDCORE hip-hop influenced

• Jagged Edge
• Dru Hill
• 112
• Blackstreet
• Silk

Boyz II Men didn't fit this new "image"..... and they didn't try.

Also around this time, if you were and R&B singer but didn't want to do the HIP HOP influenced thing........you were burdgeoning on NEO SOUL.

Unfortunately for Boyz II Men, Neo Soul was about individual artists........and NOT GROUP ACTS.

 

[unknownsoldier]

More like a lack of fresh hits (and aging). Same as with anyone.

Ironically after the Motown issue they couldn't work with the same producers that supplied those hits...

 

[DiamondDeuce]

Not even close.



That's not the question. They haven't "retired," so they're still looking to sell albums and have hits. And the point was that both of them "fell off" as well from their prime hitmaking years way back in the '80s (for Stevie) and early '90s (for Prince). They were still trying back then to keep up the pace, and didn't. Very few artists can maintain the same status decade after decade. Boyz II Men were more successful and have lasted longer than 99% of R&B groups.



They've sold 27M albums in the U.S. alone (same as Jay-Z), so they've done pretty well.



Boyz II Men HAVE had a POP hit as recently as '99 and an R&B hit as recently as 2007. Neither Prince nor Stevie can say that.

Blunt,

Prince's album MUSICOLOGY went platinum in 2004

 

[Blunt]

[
Unfortunately for Boyz II Men, Neo Soul was about individual artists........and NOT GROUP ACTS.

They never actually went away. White boy bands replaced them on the Pop charts (and sold mega-millions), but Boyz II Men have continued to release singles and have charted every now and then on the R&B side through the '00s.

They're an "oldies" act now.

 

[B-Witty]

Blunt,

Prince's album MUSICOLOGY went platinum in 2004

exactly... that waste of life trying to tell me i made an old man rant speaking the truth.. i think it talks out the side of its tail.. this site is fool of attention characters....foolishness

 

[Blunt]

Blunt,

Prince's album MUSICOLOGY went platinum in 2004

Who's talking about ALBUMS, knucklehead??? Barry Manilow went Platinum in 2004 too (and he didn't give away freebies at concerts to pad his sales the way Prince did with that album).

We're talking about hit singles and being a major force in the market. The last time Prince cracked the Top Twenty on the R&B Chart was in '97, and the POP chart in '95.

 

[DiamondDeuce]

Who's talking about ALBUMS, knucklehead??? Barry Manilow went Platinum in 2004 too (and he didn't give away freebies at concerts to pad his sales the way Prince did with that album).

We're talking about hit singles and being a major force in the market. The last time Prince cracked the Top Twenty on the R&B Chart was in '97, and the POP chart in '95.

So you make my point even further. Ask any artist, would you rather have a hit single.....or a PLATINUM selling album.

Sure the singles of Musicology didn't crack the top 20 in the US. But HIS album still went Platinum less than a year after its release.

So PEOPLE PAID MONEY FOR THE WHOLE ALBUM.......and not just a single.

+ Prince just recently had a sold out tour in the US in 2011 !!! not to mention the one in 2004.

So I would say that PRINCE has has MUSICAL SUCCESS (actually a great deal of it in the 2000's)

 

[Blunt]

So you make my point even further. Ask any artist, would you rather have a hit single.....or a PLATINUM selling album.

You want both.

Sure the singles of Musicology didn't crack the top 20 in the US. But HIS album still went Platinum less than a year after its release.

It got a lot of help through the giveaways. So much so that they had to change the rules in terms of counting them as sales. Subsequent albums haven't approached Platinum.

So PEOPLE PAID MONEY FOR THE WHOLE ALBUM.......and not just a single.

They were GIVEN the album at his concerts. And it's not about BUYING singles. It's about being LISTENED to on a regular basis by the public.

+ Prince just recently had a sold out tour in the US in 2011 !!! not to mention the one in 2004.

So what?? He has lots of OLD fans. The question is why did he FALL OFF in the mid-'90s.

So I would say that PRINCE has has MUSICAL SUCCESS (actually a great deal of it in the 2000's)

No, he hasn't had a great deal of musical success in the '00s. He's just doing his thing playing to his fan base, just like Boyz II Men.

 

[D-TOWN REP]

the 90's was a good era for r&b,,, but if you notice, r&b really died after the year 2000,,, after that, rap dominated the Black music charts,,, so they were really just casualties of 90's r&b (along with so many other good singers from the 90's),,, outside of mary j & usher, not too many others made it past 2000

C/S...where are Donnell Jones, Jon B, Ruff Endz, Keith Sweat, Jodeci, Dave Hollister, etc. now?

yep

and to asmwer your question Toney a lot of the 90s and early 2000s R&B acts linked up and tour now

Silk, Avant, H-Town, and Ginuwine were just in Dallas a couple weeks ago

there have been similar type of tours that have came thru in the past

those types of artist no longer appeal to the mainstream I guess

 

[onyxfemme]

This........

New Edition itis

 

[DiamondDeuce]

You want both.



It got a lot of help through the giveaways. So much so that they had to change the rules in terms of counting them as sales. Subsequent albums haven't approached Platinum.



They were GIVEN the album at his concerts. And it's not about BUYING singles. It's about being LISTENED to on a regular basis by the public.



So what?? He has lots of OLD fans. The question is why did he FALL OFF in the mid-'90s.


Prince's 1996 Album Emancipation peaked at #11 on US charts, and went 2x Platinum.

Sure it aint PURPLE RAIN, but folks were still buying Prince's music in the mid 1990's blunt.
No, he hasn't had a great deal of musical success in the '00s. He's just doing his thing playing to his fan base, just like Boyz II Men.
IN the 2000's Prince has had a PLATINUM selling album... a critically acclaimed and sold out tour in 2004. A hugely successful Las Vegas show a few years back. A successful sold out limited city tour in 2011
I think Prince has had pretty good musical success in the 2000's. Granted he can't catch Purple Rain success... but he is still doing very well off his music. Why can't you just admit when you are wrong???? Quit trying to REDEFINE "Success". Success in the music business means the artist makes music that PEOPLE $PAY FOR. Prince has successfully done that in the 2000's

really

 

[godofwine]

1. they had poor management (say hello to Mike Bivins, the secret 5th member of b2m) which lead to reasons number 2 -4

2. they signed with Motown

3. they signed with Motown

4. they signed with Motown

If B2M had proper management and signed with Sony or Arista in the 90s it is very likely they woulod still be cranking out music direct to soft rock /lite fm radio stations

Most artists who sign on with ACTIVE artists' record labels usually fail. The ACTIVE artist they are signed to cannot focus on the new artists' career because they are still too focused on their own. See Mike Bivens, Keith Sweat, Bone Thugs and plenty more. Not to say these artists don't have success, but they fall off sooner than they should due to poor management.

 

[black&decker]

You had groups like Dru Hill that came on the scene. I don't think they fell off at all. In our generation the top groups were Dru Hill, Jodeci, Boyz II men, and Jagged Edge. After Jodeci and Boyz II Men stopped making albums to take time off Dru Hill held down the crown. At this point music as a whole started to shift.

Singers no longer had to sing and rappers no longer had to be lyrical. Then you got your B2K's of the world who could only dance and look cute but very limited vocal ability. No one is pushing fortrue talent. You got rappers bragging about how they don't write and R&B artists who entire routine is to take off their shirt. Is there any R&B group out that is signed?

what about 112?