I haven't seen Vinyl but surely they didn't spend THAT much on it. Did they?
HBO's Westworld (Official) Season 4 discussion thread (Full trailer 6/16/22) drops 6/26/22
- Thread starter fonzerrillii
- Start date
I haven't seen Vinyl but surely they didn't spend THAT much on it. Did they?
See Dtwnsfinest post on 22.
she isn't powerful - the only choice she made all season was to find her kid -EVERYTHING else was Ford's narrative
He was the only person that could give her the admin rights she had -
Now- I suspect Ford suspended all admin rights park wide when he put the park in lock down AND killed the command centers
He gave all the hosts in the park the power to choose "any killing will be by choice"
a list film directors
high production values
moderately expensive cast
Very expensive music licensing - probably paid upfront for resales
It doesn't matter who gives her the power, she was powerful lol. I didn't say more powerful than Ford..who is the GOD of the place. Just more power than the others.
NOW what you're saying could possibly be true. They could possibly ALL be given the code to choose and do what they want and have the advantage of control over other hosts wiped out from Mauve
but probably NOT arnold
look at the scenes in Ford's office - miniature models etc - you'll see stuff for the other parks...
the other parks are newer, with younger hosts...
based on the website, the entire facility is locked down now - I suspect the show will follow in the footsteps of the movie with a spreading "virus" with board members and guests trying to escape to the other parks and just stay alive - and the staff fighting to just survive in the facility
I think "Arnold" too - the show is saying the field is leveled now - but Bernard still doesn't know what are his thoughts vs Ford's
Mauve is figuring it out, Delores might not be fully woke either... she just said fuck it and merged with the Wyatt programming to serve the greater good of freeing the hosts
Ok that's cool if they develop it. I think a good thing would be the confusion of who is who and now not truly knowing who is who as far as guest vs host which will lead to alliances and betrayal..
to be honest, we haven't even conquered west world yet we ain't ready for the rest lol
but at the same time if they are human then some would have to be smarter than the others right?
should be...
“Mozart, Beethoven, and Chopin never died,”
“They simply became music.”
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: My impression from interviewing Anthony Hopkins was that he was signed for one season. A lot of our readers think he’ll be back. Can you say if he’s on board for season 2?
JONATHAN NOLAN: We were very lucky to have one amazing season with Anthony Hopkins. We loved working with him. As for the show, where it goes, the characters — we’ve well established we’re playing in a more advanced ruleset in terms of death and resurrection than other [projects] I’ve worked on. So I would say: Assume nothing.
“They simply became music.”
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: My impression from interviewing Anthony Hopkins was that he was signed for one season. A lot of our readers think he’ll be back. Can you say if he’s on board for season 2?
JONATHAN NOLAN: We were very lucky to have one amazing season with Anthony Hopkins. We loved working with him. As for the show, where it goes, the characters — we’ve well established we’re playing in a more advanced ruleset in terms of death and resurrection than other [projects] I’ve worked on. So I would say: Assume nothing.
“Mozart, Beethoven, and Chopin never died,”
“They simply became music.”
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: My impression from interviewing Anthony Hopkins was that he was signed for one season. A lot of our readers think he’ll be back. Can you say if he’s on board for season 2?
JONATHAN NOLAN: We were very lucky to have one amazing season with Anthony Hopkins. We loved working with him. As for the show, where it goes, the characters — we’ve well established we’re playing in a more advanced ruleset in terms of death and resurrection than other [projects] I’ve worked on. So I would say: Assume nothing.
Which could be multiple things
1 that was a clone
2 he uploaded himself into a replica host
3 he was just talking about the hosts being his children, immortal and living forever long after his physical body is gone
Cold thing is, it could be all 3 at the same time. For all we know the real Ford could've been dead for a while.
That's the scary part about trying to find yourself for them and for us. What if you just don't have "it" in you? What if you're a dreamer like me who has it but shit might not seem like it's working for you at the moment? What if you know your place but can't get to it? What if you feel lucky to have what you have knowing you shouldn't have made it this far for this long?
Imagine being a host and spending all the time doing what you're doing because in your mind, well what you think is your mind, you enjoy doing it only to find out you really had no choice in the matter? What would you do? what types of things would you explore? How do you reboot your entire frame of mind and what drives you as an adult?
It should get really wild for a while in west world imo. Wild with experimentation and people trying to find what they're good at
But also.
There should be people doing what they are already programmed to do because even though there are other opportunities out there, it's all they know..
So again, what's the true difference between hosts and guests?
A while back you had a mini-debate during our interview about whether viewers would know the park’s location by the end of the season. Jonathan, you thought we would; Lisa, you said, no, we won’t. We had that rather big hint of Maeve heading out to the “mainland,” a word used in context to refer to an island. And also – and this is just rather embarrassing to admit – but I just realized this morning that there’s a real Greek island named Delos, although it’s too small of one to contain a land the size of the park. Should we just assume the park is on an island at this point, given what you’ve told us?
NOLAN: The key is to never disagree with Lisa. Always bet on Lisa being right.
JOY: I think part of the fun of figuring out where they are is something that we’re going to… it’ll be fun.
NOLAN: We don’t want to create the world’s largest mystery around it because we have equally interesting, or more interesting, character questions to ask. But I think the rule we’ve built from the beginning — whether it’s frustrating for the audience or not; hopefully it’s not — is you really only know as much as the host’s know. Our worldview is limited to theirs. They don’t know where they are yet. We tried teasing that in the finale, but it doesn’t seem fair that the audience would know if they don’t.
Speaking of teasing, I love the glimpse at Samurai World. Or perhaps it’s Shogun World or Sensei World? Anything you can tell us about this glimpse into the other park. We also got the other hint of “Park 1” being written the note telling Maeve her daughter’s location.
JOY: We’re definitely teasing there are other worlds. How many other worlds and what is the nature of the other worlds is something we’ll start to explore more in season 2. But it was definitely fun filming those samurai [scenes].
NOLAN: It was awesome. Something we’re constantly asked is, “Is there a Roman World and Medieval World?” We couldn’t say “no,” because we wanted to go in a slightly different direction. This samurai-shogun world, for us, has a very specific relation to the Western. Some of my favorite movies are the Sergio Leone adaptations of the Akira Kurosawa samurai films: The Seven Samuraiand The Magnificent Seven. In the period when the Western was the biggest genre in the world, the interplay between Westerns and samurai films in the domestic market in Japan was really cool. On that meta level, those two genres have this almost incestuous relationship with each other. We just couldn’t resist.
Is it definitively “samurai” or “shogun” in terms of what the “S” is for?
NOLAN: Those are good guesses.
Did Dr. Ford also run this “SW” world?
NOLAN: One of the things we’ve established is Westworld is the proto-park. It’s the first park. The other parks, you would imagine, are extensions. In the Disney universe, you start with a parking lot in Anaheim, California, and then you grow. We would imagine, yes, Ford has had a great deal of sway over everything we’re seeing.
I have to ask about the sidelining of Elsie (Shannon Woodward), who is being teased on HBO’s Delos website as being alive, and Stubbs (Luke Hemsworth). It felt like there might have been a non-storyline reason for her being offscreen, or that you got into a corner, writing-wise, and weren’t sure what to do with her for the final episodes. And with Stubbs, I was thinking he could have led the armed response team in the finale instead of having a team full of characters we didn’t know. It was a curious decision and I couldn’t tell whether it was creative or there was another reason they weren’t around?
NOLAN: Look, we love working with Luke and Shannon.
JOY: There were early incarnations where we tied up those arcs [in the finale]. I’m not saying how – I’m just saying we tied them up.
NOLAN: I wouldn’t say “tied them up.” I would say we unspooled them in an uncertain future.
JOY: Where we elucidated their fate more explicitly. But their fates — we know where they’re going and we’ll get there.
NOLAN: We dearly love both those actors. We also, you know, it was not our intention to spin out huge mysteries ad infinitum. We wanted to resolve some pretty important storytelling. But we didn’t want to answer every question.
Is there anything that fans are missing in the finale — in terms of a point or a small reference that no one is picking up on?
NOLAN: One of the incredibly gratifying things about making the show is that the audience is so in-sync with where the story is going. With certain members of the audience, some are frustrated at times. They’re picking up everything we’re laying down — Reddit in particular — are picking up all the details and spinning out beautiful theories, many of which connected to the show. But I think, for the most part, it’s Monday morning, but people really seem to have grabbed ahold of all the things were trying to accomplish. Which is hugely gratifying.
JOY: I haven’t read the comments, so I don’t what they’re saying.
Do you have a tease for season 2 you’re willing to make at this point?
NOLAN: No [laughs].
JOY: I’m trying to think!
NOLAN: We talked about the idea that the first season has been the hosts expanding understanding of the situation they’re in. There is an awful lot left to explore.
JOY: I think part of it is we’ve looked at the hosts trying to become aware of the reality of their situation and who they are. To hear their own voices. That’s where we’ve gotten to at the end of this season. Now the thing we get to explore is once they’ve heard their own voices and once they’ve embraced who they are, what choices will they make? It speaks to a thing of how identity constantly evolves. They were steeped and raised in violence. These violent delights did indeed have violent ends at the end of the season. And I think we’re going to see how that pendulum swings going forward.
This first season, there were so many intricately plotted mysteries that led to so many explanations and revelations at the end. Now that this group of characters and park history has been established, do you anticipate the second season to be somewhat less mystery driven in terms of the number of questions you raise and then have to explain along the way? Or will season 2 be every bit as much a puzzle box as season 1?
NOLAN: The puzzle of it all was never the focus for us. We had a unique opportunity here with a set of protagonist hosts whose situation is unique. They don’t age the way we do. They’re not really equipped to understand the distinction between their memories and the present tense. The show is not about people, it’s about these creatures whose cognition and understanding the world around them is markedly different from ours. And it suggested a form of storytelling that – hopefully in a pleasurable way – allowed the audience to find themselves in at the deep end in our story. As every season moves forward, the audience hopefully has more of a connection to our hosts and how they understand the world. We take that mechanism — which, in the first season, caused Dolores in particular so much hurt and betrayal — to realize she’s been conflating the one person who represented a glimmer of hope for her with her worst enemy, and all the emotional wreckage of that. Then we’ll take a character who can explore her past and future with that level of understanding and continue to explore how that storytelling works. Not with an eye toward a puzzle, but with an eye toward hopefully delighting the audience. It’s not for everyone, but this is the sort of stuff Lisa and I love. We want to continue to grow our ambition in terms of how this form of storytelling works.
UPDATE: During the showrunners’ Facebook Live event talking about the finale, the producers hit a few more questions.
– Asked for three words each to describe season 2, Nolan says “total f–king mayhem,” while Joy added “madness and transcendence.”
– One fan asked the top reader question below this post: Could the host that Ford is printing when Theresa is killed be a copy of himself, one that Dolores actually shot? The producers called the question “really, really good” and wouldn’t answer it directly, but did note that Ford’s “sacrifice is real.”
– Did Dolores actually become aware or is that part of Ford’s narrative? “In the finale, when she pulls that trigger on Dr. Ford, that is her choice, and it’s a big difference. It’s not that Ford couldn’t have anticipated it … he knows he could have predicted this outcome, but it’s absolutely her call. It’s a bold new starting point for her character.”
NOLAN: The key is to never disagree with Lisa. Always bet on Lisa being right.
JOY: I think part of the fun of figuring out where they are is something that we’re going to… it’ll be fun.
NOLAN: We don’t want to create the world’s largest mystery around it because we have equally interesting, or more interesting, character questions to ask. But I think the rule we’ve built from the beginning — whether it’s frustrating for the audience or not; hopefully it’s not — is you really only know as much as the host’s know. Our worldview is limited to theirs. They don’t know where they are yet. We tried teasing that in the finale, but it doesn’t seem fair that the audience would know if they don’t.
Speaking of teasing, I love the glimpse at Samurai World. Or perhaps it’s Shogun World or Sensei World? Anything you can tell us about this glimpse into the other park. We also got the other hint of “Park 1” being written the note telling Maeve her daughter’s location.
JOY: We’re definitely teasing there are other worlds. How many other worlds and what is the nature of the other worlds is something we’ll start to explore more in season 2. But it was definitely fun filming those samurai [scenes].
NOLAN: It was awesome. Something we’re constantly asked is, “Is there a Roman World and Medieval World?” We couldn’t say “no,” because we wanted to go in a slightly different direction. This samurai-shogun world, for us, has a very specific relation to the Western. Some of my favorite movies are the Sergio Leone adaptations of the Akira Kurosawa samurai films: The Seven Samuraiand The Magnificent Seven. In the period when the Western was the biggest genre in the world, the interplay between Westerns and samurai films in the domestic market in Japan was really cool. On that meta level, those two genres have this almost incestuous relationship with each other. We just couldn’t resist.
Is it definitively “samurai” or “shogun” in terms of what the “S” is for?
NOLAN: Those are good guesses.
Did Dr. Ford also run this “SW” world?
NOLAN: One of the things we’ve established is Westworld is the proto-park. It’s the first park. The other parks, you would imagine, are extensions. In the Disney universe, you start with a parking lot in Anaheim, California, and then you grow. We would imagine, yes, Ford has had a great deal of sway over everything we’re seeing.
I have to ask about the sidelining of Elsie (Shannon Woodward), who is being teased on HBO’s Delos website as being alive, and Stubbs (Luke Hemsworth). It felt like there might have been a non-storyline reason for her being offscreen, or that you got into a corner, writing-wise, and weren’t sure what to do with her for the final episodes. And with Stubbs, I was thinking he could have led the armed response team in the finale instead of having a team full of characters we didn’t know. It was a curious decision and I couldn’t tell whether it was creative or there was another reason they weren’t around?
NOLAN: Look, we love working with Luke and Shannon.
JOY: There were early incarnations where we tied up those arcs [in the finale]. I’m not saying how – I’m just saying we tied them up.
NOLAN: I wouldn’t say “tied them up.” I would say we unspooled them in an uncertain future.
JOY: Where we elucidated their fate more explicitly. But their fates — we know where they’re going and we’ll get there.
NOLAN: We dearly love both those actors. We also, you know, it was not our intention to spin out huge mysteries ad infinitum. We wanted to resolve some pretty important storytelling. But we didn’t want to answer every question.
Is there anything that fans are missing in the finale — in terms of a point or a small reference that no one is picking up on?
NOLAN: One of the incredibly gratifying things about making the show is that the audience is so in-sync with where the story is going. With certain members of the audience, some are frustrated at times. They’re picking up everything we’re laying down — Reddit in particular — are picking up all the details and spinning out beautiful theories, many of which connected to the show. But I think, for the most part, it’s Monday morning, but people really seem to have grabbed ahold of all the things were trying to accomplish. Which is hugely gratifying.
JOY: I haven’t read the comments, so I don’t what they’re saying.
Do you have a tease for season 2 you’re willing to make at this point?
NOLAN: No [laughs].
JOY: I’m trying to think!
NOLAN: We talked about the idea that the first season has been the hosts expanding understanding of the situation they’re in. There is an awful lot left to explore.
JOY: I think part of it is we’ve looked at the hosts trying to become aware of the reality of their situation and who they are. To hear their own voices. That’s where we’ve gotten to at the end of this season. Now the thing we get to explore is once they’ve heard their own voices and once they’ve embraced who they are, what choices will they make? It speaks to a thing of how identity constantly evolves. They were steeped and raised in violence. These violent delights did indeed have violent ends at the end of the season. And I think we’re going to see how that pendulum swings going forward.
This first season, there were so many intricately plotted mysteries that led to so many explanations and revelations at the end. Now that this group of characters and park history has been established, do you anticipate the second season to be somewhat less mystery driven in terms of the number of questions you raise and then have to explain along the way? Or will season 2 be every bit as much a puzzle box as season 1?
NOLAN: The puzzle of it all was never the focus for us. We had a unique opportunity here with a set of protagonist hosts whose situation is unique. They don’t age the way we do. They’re not really equipped to understand the distinction between their memories and the present tense. The show is not about people, it’s about these creatures whose cognition and understanding the world around them is markedly different from ours. And it suggested a form of storytelling that – hopefully in a pleasurable way – allowed the audience to find themselves in at the deep end in our story. As every season moves forward, the audience hopefully has more of a connection to our hosts and how they understand the world. We take that mechanism — which, in the first season, caused Dolores in particular so much hurt and betrayal — to realize she’s been conflating the one person who represented a glimmer of hope for her with her worst enemy, and all the emotional wreckage of that. Then we’ll take a character who can explore her past and future with that level of understanding and continue to explore how that storytelling works. Not with an eye toward a puzzle, but with an eye toward hopefully delighting the audience. It’s not for everyone, but this is the sort of stuff Lisa and I love. We want to continue to grow our ambition in terms of how this form of storytelling works.
UPDATE: During the showrunners’ Facebook Live event talking about the finale, the producers hit a few more questions.
– Asked for three words each to describe season 2, Nolan says “total f–king mayhem,” while Joy added “madness and transcendence.”
– One fan asked the top reader question below this post: Could the host that Ford is printing when Theresa is killed be a copy of himself, one that Dolores actually shot? The producers called the question “really, really good” and wouldn’t answer it directly, but did note that Ford’s “sacrifice is real.”
– Did Dolores actually become aware or is that part of Ford’s narrative? “In the finale, when she pulls that trigger on Dr. Ford, that is her choice, and it’s a big difference. It’s not that Ford couldn’t have anticipated it … he knows he could have predicted this outcome, but it’s absolutely her call. It’s a bold new starting point for her character.”
I expect we'll find out
I also expect some of the hosts to fight against choice and complain things were better when they were under human control
Gotta love a show that can get BGOLers to question the meaning of their existence. We met up over fucking porn.
You know it's coming. Now we're going to see that they're people
Also, who's going to fix them or are they just dead?
Will they have access to the supplies that let them get killed over and over again?
If so, who decides who gets to live forever? What if jail is shutting down your processor for x amount of time until you learn better?
Could you get an 100 year sentence, do your time then come back into the society?
Nobody ages.. everything will look the same sans whatever developments they make
Will they form cliques and start religions?
It's right there for the taking. I ain't saying I'm some kind of snob or I watch on a different level of understanding, that's that bullshit. But I will say that I see the way it is congruent with what we don't even realize we go through.
Now was that the writer's intent POSSIBLY.
But it's there.
You should read some of my Mr. Robot thoughts. Then go take a few drinks lol
before any of those questions get answered - they first have to earn the right to exist
How will the human race react to a new life form? violently
Will the members of the board who weren't there even bother with reacting to a new human race when they can just lock down the facility and move on leaving them to their own devices?
If William survived.. he is the majority share holder and this world is the world that he wanted all along.. so..
You know I will. As soon as I catch up on Mr. Robot. And just to be clear, I approve of and encourage BGOLers engaging in existential discussions. Best threads on the board.
I approve too. But try to stay somewhat on topic so that it makes sense.
my guess is the entire board was there - more importantly the majority share holder is in the park... these are not people that get written off -
Imagine Bill Gates and Buffet or the board of Disney or Exxon Mobile and GE get trapped in Disneyland with terrorists...
I would bet a years salary that every NSA resource and a Marine division get tasked to support Delta Force on a rescue mission
That would happen after a while but like i said if William survives and gets out through some miracle- which means he probably got clapped up- then he's going to say everything is good and leave the park as it is lol
dude - no one is getting out anytime soon- Ford planned this out
(side note: - I'm sure Charlotte's insurance didn't get out either...)
If they write this right - some external characters have to try to break in the park next season cause as a group these are not people who get to disappear for +24 hours
Hey, you're the one questioning the meaning of life. That sorta of deviates from the topic, but I'm just saying it's cool.
by out i just mean survives not out of the park yet. they gotta make it by wyatt first lol
so was that fords plan?... if so to what end...
IF delores/wyatt killed him of free will, then Ford HAD to see that coming.
if not, why kill yourself if you are a "god"
Was ford so pissed he would nuke the place with him in it?.. did he leave before everything happened.
The whole Ford death is puzzling.
The free will is that it's their world. Fords plan is the same as Arnold's, to not hold the hosts prisoner any longer. Let them be free to do them.
It wasn't about him it was about his vision and legacy. His lasting legacy is his children- the hosts who will live on forever.
So he could die so that his children could live on is a decision any real parent would make for their children.
wow!!..the season finale was crazy!!!...its a twist on every episodes this season!!..Man, Ford runs everything thats goes on in that world and the host as well..this is a damn good show!!
Cant wait for Season 2..
Cant wait for Season 2..
so his death was a crucifixion