HBO's Westworld (Official) Season 4 discussion thread (Full trailer 6/16/22) drops 6/26/22

[LegalMoney]

I think the scientists were Hosts. I'm 100 percent certain of it. That would be the only way that Ford would be certain about Maeve and putting her on the path to her choice.

I'm not so sure that Felix is a host, he has a certain inimitable presence: a mix of fear, intrigue, and incompetence; too many emotions to be replicated via code. For as human as the hosts are, they can't replicate all human dynamics, case the subtle differences between Arnold and Bernard.

Regarding Delos' main play, I think it is definitely uploading human consciousness into a host or some after life reserve to visit lost ones.

Which would lend to the theory that the Ford we saw killed was either a host or Ford already uploaded his conscience into a host.

Creatively I could see HBO making it into the latter in the event Anthony Hopkins is too pricey to bring back they can say Ford uploaded his conscience into a younger version of himself or shit another body.

 

[yaBoi]

Awww yea
I figured what was going to happen out, as soon as we saw what Wyatt did to Arnold.
I say it every week. I don't know how many times does Ford have to prove he's the fucking God of that place?
Dont know how many times.
Of course William is MIIB that was confirmed for me once that Knife comparison was shown
So many layers to peel back I'll let it marinate a little bit because the jewels dropped about our own lives might frighten a few people if I go there.

Constant theme has been who's world is this?
Ford been playing Nas in they mind the entire time "The world is yours"
so dope because he's just been working on a way to FIX THEM so they can do their own thing.
I feel happiest for The man in black because he finally got what he spent his entire life searching for.

yep I was picking up on them in real time. had to pause and reflect a few times

 

[fonzerrillii]

I'm not so sure that Felix is a host, he has a certain inimitable presence: a mix of fear, intrigue, and incompetence; too many emotions to be replicated via code. For as human as the hosts are, they can't replicate all human dynamics, case the subtle differences between Arnold and Bernard.

Regarding Delos' main play, I think it is definitely uploading human consciousness into a host or some after life reserve to visit lost ones.

Which would lend to the theory that the Ford we saw killed was either a host or Ford already uploaded his conscience into a host.

Creatively I could see HBO making it into the latter in the event Anthony Hopkins is too pricey to bring back they can say Ford uploaded his conscience into a younger version of himself or shit another body.

Not so... Look at Bernard. NO one put it together that he was a host and he was working with other humans the entire time. Plus.. there was no way that Ford would have been certain to get Maeve to the exact point where she would have to make a choice about her daughter... unless he had complete control over her awaking.

 

[LegalMoney]

Not so... Look at Bernard. NO one put it together that he was a host and he was working with other humans the entire time. Plus.. there was no way that Ford would have been certain to get Maeve to the exact point where she would have to make a choice about her daughter... unless he had complete control over her awaking.

No one picked up he was a host because as I believe you stated earlier his disposition was docile, reserved, and subservient, a stark distinction from Arnold who was more dynamic and more of a genius than Ford.

IMO it's easier to program Bernard's behavioral range than say Felix. The hosts are generally reserved and even when they express emotion its exaggerated which is what you would expect from a machine pretending to "feel".

When the hosts are "confused" they all have that weird "tick" and zoned out expressing like they're trying to compute. Felix to me is human because he's too fucking varied.

BUT I completely agree that he was in on Ford's control over Maeve. I think Ford offered him the opportunity to move to Behavior from maintenance if he did as instructed.

 

[yaBoi]

time to rewatch

 

[kinglickk]

Ford ain't dead.
The puppet master is not going to take himself out. I'm certain that the Ford that was shot was a host made just for that instant.
Thandie's problem as a host is that she does not understand human-like behavior. Humanity tends to fuck up one's decision making process so as she evolves into humanity. she becomes more like a human in thinking. She can't be both. It's humanity or host. There is no balance.
Tonight's episode certainly tells us how long the park has been functioning.

 

[dtownsfinest]

Ford ain't dead.
The puppet master is not going to take himself out. I'm certain that the Ford that was shot was a host made just for that instant.
Thandie's problem as a host is that she does not understand human-like behavior. Humanity tends to fuck up one's decision making process so as she evolves into humanity. she becomes more like a human in thinking. She can't be both. It's humanity or host. There is no balance.
Tonight's episode certainly tells us how long the park has been functioning.

The only reason I think that Ford may have really taken himself out is because Hopkins payroll was CRAZY and the production costs on the show were crazy and I can see them having to make cuts to get that 2nd season from HBO. I could also see that being a host but they gotta do some cut backs on this show and i'm sure a big one would be Hopkins. Though he makes this show what it is.

 

[yaBoi]

my one complaint with the show

Tessa Thompson is a pretty good actress, yet she was out of her depth on this show. she had no business being on screen with Hopkins.

 

[yaBoi]

The only reason I think that Ford may have really taken himself out is because Hopkins payroll was CRAZY and the production costs on the show were crazy and I can see them having to make cuts to get that 2nd season from HBO. I could also see that being a host but they gotta do some cut backs on this show and i'm sure a big one would be Hopkins. Though he makes this show what it is.

who said...

 

[dtownsfinest]

who said...

Insiders tell The Hollywood Reporter the overall budget for the first season of the 10-episode project is in the $100 million range — on par with HBO's long-in-the-works rock drama Vinyl, which fizzled after one season earlier this year. Sources peg the budget for the 90-minute Westworld pilot alone in the $25 million range, including reshoots, with some costs rolled to episode two as parts of the series debut were moved out of the premiere. (For context: HBO scrapped the entire original Game of Thrones pilot, which had a price tag of $20 million.) The per-episode budget is said to be anywhere from $8 million to $10 million. It's also worth noting that the drama hails from Warner Bros. Television, with HBO paying a massive licensing fee to its corporate sibling for Westworld, which is among the premium cabler's few studio buys. Both share in the costs for the series, with sources noting it's likely a 50-50 split and HBO serving as the lead on the show.


Created by husband-and-wife duo Jonathan Nolan (Person of Interest) and Lisa Joy and executive produced by J.J. Abrams, Westworld features a cast of A-listers including Anthony Hopkins as the head of an ultra-realistic amusement park where visitors come to live out their most outrageous desires. The cast also includes Evan Rachel Wood, James Marsden, Thandie Newton and Ed Harris. (Hopkins and Harris are said to have scored $175,000 per episode each, with the latter potentially having only a two-year deal.)



I also factor in how they did Vinyl......renewed it after 1 or 2 episodes and by the end of the season they said fuck it.

 

[LegalMoney]

The only reason I think that Ford may have really taken himself out is because Hopkins payroll was CRAZY and the production costs on the show were crazy and I can see them having to make cuts to get that 2nd season from HBO. I could also see that being a host but they gotta do some cut backs on this show and i'm sure a big one would be Hopkins. Though he makes this show what it is.

Exactly why I think if Ford isn't dead they will write it as if he uploaded his consciousness into a "younger" host body. Give a cheaper actor the role like they did with GoT.

 

[yaBoi]

Insiders tell The Hollywood Reporter the overall budget for the first season of the 10-episode project is in the $100 million range — on par with HBO's long-in-the-works rock drama Vinyl, which fizzled after one season earlier this year. Sources peg the budget for the 90-minute Westworld pilot alone in the $25 million range, including reshoots, with some costs rolled to episode two as parts of the series debut were moved out of the premiere. (For context: HBO scrapped the entire original Game of Thrones pilot, which had a price tag of $20 million.) The per-episode budget is said to be anywhere from $8 million to $10 million. It's also worth noting that the drama hails from Warner Bros. Television, with HBO paying a massive licensing fee to its corporate sibling for Westworld, which is among the premium cabler's few studio buys. Both share in the costs for the series, with sources noting it's likely a 50-50 split and HBO serving as the lead on the show.


Created by husband-and-wife duo Jonathan Nolan (Person of Interest) and Lisa Joy and executive produced by J.J. Abrams, Westworld features a cast of A-listers including Anthony Hopkins as the head of an ultra-realistic amusement park where visitors come to live out their most outrageous desires. The cast also includes Evan Rachel Wood, James Marsden, Thandie Newton and Ed Harris. (Hopkins and Harris are said to have scored $175,000 per episode each, with the latter potentially having only a two-year deal.)



I also factor in how they did Vinyl......renewed it after 1 or 2 episodes and by the end of the season they said fuck it.

I get what you are saying but...

that's just a bunch of numbers...nowhere did they say that they need to cut back. It would be in their best interest NOT to cut the budget. They got a smash hit on their hands that's going to kill at awards time. Why would they kill their cash cow this soon. Westworld is going to pay for it's self.

..besides Vinyl sucked. So i get why they would make changed there.

 

[dtownsfinest]

Exactly why I think if Ford isn't dead they will write it as if he uploaded his consciousness into a "younger" host body. Give a cheaper actor the role like they did with GoT.

I was also wondering the younger version of him on the show.....did they CG Anthony Hopkins face on to him?

 

[dtownsfinest]

I get what you are saying but...

that's just a bunch of numbers...nowhere did they say that they need to cut back. It would be in their best interest NOT to cut the budget. They got a smash hit on their hands that's going to kill at awards time. Why would they kill their cash cow this soon. Westworld is going to pay for it's self.

..besides Vinyl sucked. So i get why they would make changed there.

This is all assumptions on my part. 100 million for a premium cable show is excessive. Usually shows that do that either get cancelled or they have to make cut backs.

This is how entertainment works. Whether its music or movies or TV. When something is successful the object is to make cutbacks.

Rome and Deadwood both got cancelled because production costs.

But this is all assumption by me.

I know Game of Thrones is also too expensive to produce but to my knowledge its about to end so they may not mind sliding this in there and taking its spot.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

yep I was picking up on them in real time. had to pause and reflect a few times

What about mauve tho
She thought she was finally awake
She was finally making decisions for herself finally free will
Bernard tried to tell her it's just code and that all her steps are being taken.
She destroyed it. then when she was on the train she got off
Now she'll have to wonder was that her decision or the plan all along?
And she won't ever know..
If a god has our lives planned do we want to know how it goes or do you want to feel like youre making the decisions that impact your life for your own peace of mind?

 

[LegalMoney]

If a god has our lives planned do we want to know how it goes or do you want to feel like youre making the decisions that impact your life for your own peace of mind?

Ford is a God allegory through and through.

Remember when he chastised that young tech in episode 1 for covering the host? He talked about "covering their shame (nakedness)" and mentioned that the hosts don't feel shame or pain, it is humans who project those notions onto the hosts.

Westworld is his Garden of Eden where he created life.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Ford is a God allegory through and through.

Remember when he chastised that young tech in episode 1 for covering the host? He talked about "covering their shame (nakedness)" and mentioned that the hosts don't feel shame or pain, it is humans who project those notions onto the hosts.

Westworld is his Garden of Eden where he created life.

He created the children and family he never had in pursuit of his dreams. The last episode he told them it's time to leave the nest and fly.
As I alluded many moons ago, Ford and William both wanted the same thing.

 

[LegalMoney]

He created the children and family he never had in pursuit of his dreams. The last episode he told them it's time to leave the nest and fly.
As I alluded many moons ago, Ford and William both wanted the same thing.

I think Ford had higher hopes for the park and Arnold realized the wickedness of man sooner.

Arnold wanted the hosts to be sentient but realized how they'd be used so he would rather burn them down than let wicked people abuse them.

Ford was more pragmatic and once he saw how people like Logan and MIB used the hosts he continued Arnold's work to prepare the hosts for true sentience and war.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I think Ford had higher hopes for the park and Arnold realized the wickedness of man sooner.

Arnold wanted the hosts to be sentient but realized how they'd be used so he would rather burn them down than let wicked people abuse them.

Ford was more pragmatic and once he saw how people like Logan and MIB used the hosts he continued Arnold's work to prepare the hosts for true sentience and war.

I think the wickedness from Arnold's point of view was clear, to be sentient and powerless to control your own lives, to be aware of what you're living and then living it over and over again is the true torture beyond what a person can do to a host.
It doesn't matter their story line is, in the end he didn't want to trap people into a loop lived life for all of eternity.

Ford on the other hand understood they would be people AFTER a while.
The 10 year vs 35 year mistake came full circle.
it took him 35 years of tinkering to ensure that Arnold's dream and his dream intersected. 35 long years to make sure that their children would be well off and control their own destiny as immortal beings as opposed to being controlled and driven mad by people.
Let them have the chance to seemingly find themselves, and decide how they want to spend eternity.

 

[LegalMoney]

I think the wickedness from Arnold's point of view was clear, to be sentient and powerless to control your own lives, to be aware of what you're living and then living it over and over again is the true torture beyond what a person can do to a host.
It doesn't matter their story line is, in the end he didn't want to trap people into a loop lived life for all of eternity.

Ford on the other hand understood they would be people AFTER a while.
The 10 year vs 35 year mistake came full circle.
it took him 35 years of tinkering to ensure that Arnold's dream and his dream intersected. 35 long years to make sure that their children would be well off and control their own destiny as immortal beings as opposed to being controlled and driven mad by people.
Let them have the chance to seemingly find themselves, and decide how they want to spend eternity.

The intersection of their dreams is dripping with irony seeing how Arnold's last action was controlling the hosts and Ford's last action was setting them free.

It did take 35 years to get it as close to right as possible. Bernard is going to be a major key in the Park's survival being the only "living" embodiment of Ford and Arnold.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

The intersection of their dreams is dripping with irony seeing how Arnold's last action was controlling the hosts and Ford's last action was setting them free.

It did take 35 years to get it as close to right as possible. Bernard is going to be a major key in the Park's survival being the only "living" embodiment of Ford and Arnold.

The moral is sometimes the person you beefing with, wants the same thing as you but you might not be ready to receive it during the beef.
Take time, reflect, step back, and then see where the other person is coming from instead of reacting hastily.

I fully believe that Ford started the park anyway out of pure spite because it was his vision Arnold tried to ruin it and he wasn't having it
Soon after random hosts would become sentient or go mad "Like the previous versions of Mauve" and even previous versions of Bernard's mind, and he realized his error.
Just like Arnold if he hadn't been so dead set on being right and doing what he thought was right to the most extreme of action, could have stuck around and saw it through with Ford and they both could have shared last night's episode together.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Who gives us the need to do the things that we do?

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Have you started to do the robot dance and look down at your arms to determine if you're a host or not?

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Greed will keep the other parks open and other worlds open. Was Ford planning a mass roll out of that to the other worlds? How much involvement does he have with them? Does he patch up the updates on those worlds too? Did he have to do it this way as a last gasp because the board came too quickly before he could set all of the things in motion? Are the Samurai's wreaking havoc up there?
How cold is it that ol boy fought all that time, got to the elevator and couldn't go with her... who do you have in your life like that or are you the person helping someone and you know deep down inside when it's time to take that next step you're not invited?

 

[fonzerrillii]

The only reason I think that Ford may have really taken himself out is because Hopkins payroll was CRAZY and the production costs on the show were crazy and I can see them having to make cuts to get that 2nd season from HBO. I could also see that being a host but they gotta do some cut backs on this show and i'm sure a big one would be Hopkins. Though he makes this show what it is.

Exactly.... Anthony Hopkins couldn't have been cheap. They have legit movie stars on this show. There is no way they could afford to bring everyone back. But I do expect him to make cameos.

 

[TheAlias]

What about mauve tho
She thought she was finally awake
She was finally making decisions for herself finally free will
Bernard tried to tell her it's just code and that all her steps are being taken.
She destroyed it. then when she was on the train she got off
Now she'll have to wonder was that her decision or the plan all along?
And she won't ever know..

Getting off the train was her decision 100%. When Bernard was describing her changed narrative, he said "once you get to the mainland". Mauve getting off the train to find her daughter instead of going to the mainland was a decision that her sentient self made and not included in the programming.

 

[TheAlias]

The acting is AMAZING! Seeing the small nuances that Jeffrey Wright added between Bernard and Arnold is CRAZY!

Dude is a brilliant, underrated actor. Award worthy performance.

 

[dtownsfinest]

Exactly.... Anthony Hopkins couldn't have been cheap. They have legit movie stars on this show. There is no way they could afford to bring everyone back. But I do expect him to make cameos.

Right. Even the producers like the Nolans and Jj Abrams are on the show. And the show coming back in 2018? How much money will HBO front on. Show that airs every other year. I'm not saying it will happen I've just seen this story before

 

[yaBoi]

was Frankie on to something??

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Getting off the train was her decision 100%. When Bernard was describing her changed narrative, he said "once you get to the mainland". Mauve getting off the train to find her daughter instead of going to the mainland was a decision that her sentient self made and not included in the programming.

Made knowing that her "daughter" isn't real..

 

[kesq]

I'm not so sure that Felix is a host, he has a certain inimitable presence: a mix of fear, intrigue, and incompetence; too many emotions to be replicated via code. For as human as the hosts are, they can't replicate all human dynamics, case the subtle differences between Arnold and Bernard.

Regarding Delos' main play, I think it is definitely uploading human consciousness into a host or some after life reserve to visit lost ones.

Which would lend to the theory that the Ford we saw killed was either a host or Ford already uploaded his conscience into a host.

Creatively I could see HBO making it into the latter in the event Anthony Hopkins is too pricey to bring back they can say Ford uploaded his conscience into a younger version of himself or shit another body.

But how did you like the inside joke when Felix found out Arnold was a host then started to do "the robot"? Thandie said " for fucks sake....". That scene killed me.


Edit-I posted this before I saw that largebills spotted it first.

 

[kesq]

I get what you are saying but...

that's just a bunch of numbers...nowhere did they say that they need to cut back. It would be in their best interest NOT to cut the budget. They got a smash hit on their hands that's going to kill at awards time. Why would they kill their cash cow this soon. Westworld is going to pay for it's self.

..besides Vinyl sucked. So i get why they would make changed there.

Plus 100 million for a wildly successful SEASON is a bargain, especially when they have spent that much on failures like Vinyl.

 

[Helico-pterFunk]

http://gipute.com/ingrid-bolso-berdal-westworld-s01-e10-720p-nude-topless-scenes/

 

[TheAlias]

Made knowing that her "daughter" isn't real..

correct

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

correct

Agreed.
After the massacre though she's going to run the joint if she chooses. remember Felix and Arnold are the only ones who have a clue as to how powerful she is.