Game Of Thrones: The Sopranos with swords or Dynasty in chainmail?

Game of Thrones’ "Battle of the Bastards" looked great, but it didn’t make any damn sense

Updated by Matthew Yglesias
June 22, 2016, 9:00 a.m.

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Since when is Ramsay Bolton such a military genius?


Matthew Yglesias: "Battle of the Bastards" is an exciting episode of television, especially from the standpoint of technical virtuosity, but as a piece of writing and storytelling it strikes me as borderline disastrous.

The biggest problem, to my mind, is the portrayal of Ramsay Bolton as some kind of tactical genius (not to mention Westeros’s greatest marksman). Everything we’ve seen of the character — and we have seen far too much of him — suggests he is an out-of-control sadist with no ability to restrain his vile appetites.

All he had to do to consolidate House Bolton’s control of the North back in season five was, you know, not rape and torture Sansa Stark. He didn’t have to stop raping and torturing people in general — just leave that one person alone — but he didn’t, because he can’t. Nor could he restrain himself from keeping Theon Greyjoy around as a psychologically shattered pet. That all blew up in his face, and as a result there's an army of thousands, including a giant and powerful sorceress, at the gates of Winterfell.

But now suddenly he’s a brilliant commander, despite a total lack of training, who can count on a loyal and well-disciplined army, even though he seized power by blatantly murdering his father and brother.

What’s most egregious is that presenting Ramsay as such a strong commander seemed unnecessary to hit the basic beats of the story. It was already well-established that the Bolton army was twice as big as the Stark army. What’s more, the Boltons had more horses. They also had the advantage of fighting on a prepared battlefield their forces were more familiar with, and the support of a well-supplied castle.

The stage was perfectly set for a battle in which the superior leadership of Jon Snow, Davos, and Tormund Giantsbane led a badly outnumbered force to hold its own beforenearly succumbing to the inexorable math of Bolton superiority until being rescued by the Knights of the Vale.

Instead we got Jon riding headlong into an obvious trap, Davos letting a mounted force be inexplicably encircled by pikemen, and Sansa forgetting(?) to mention that she’d ravened a letter to Littlefinger and a bunch of extra guys are heading their way.

Also, remember when Melisandre could birth demon assassins to help her favored side win battles? That skill would have been useful here, eh? Or maybe she could have deployed some kind of glamour to make it look like the wildlings had a couple dozen giants and terrify the Bolton troops into breaking ranks and fleeing?

She and Jon even had a conversation where they specifically discussed her magical powers. It would have been an ideal time for Jon to ask for help and for Melisandre to come up with some in-story excuse for why she couldn’t help. What’s a pre-battle chat for if not a little expository dialogue to set things up?

As Todd wrote last week, Game of Thrones’ writers are doing an excellent job of cutting some of the logistical knots that George R.R. Martin has written himself into. If the plot calls for the Greyjoys to show up in Meereen, their ships just show up in Meereen without the need for a 90-part exploration of the journey. But at times I feel the writers lose sight of what the story is about.

Why dwell so long across so many seasons on Ramsay’s stomach-turning pathology if it’s not going to play any meaningful role in his downfall?

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/22/11977800/game-of-thrones-battle-bastards-poorly-written-ramsay

Nothing in that episode makes/states Ramsey to look like a military genius.I'm guessing he was talking about the phalanx being used in the battle but he really doesn't say that. He used the same tactical behavior that he has shown through out the series. His Psychopathic behavior indirectly created tactical decisions created opportunities for him our those he fought for. The biggest tactical move being what he did with theon.

Second it has been stated or shown that Ramsey has had command of men/troops in the past, military genius or not its no more of a stretch than Jon Snow doing the same.before this battle Jon biggest command was at the wall when he took command. For Ramsey it would have been the fight vs Stanis that I recall.

As for him not being an expert marksman, he has been shown using bows, swords and daggers as weapons. Expert maybe not but again not that far off from what has been shown in the show.if anything the writer helps my point.why would Ramsey use a bow in close quarters combat.

I know what the writers opinion is but what are your thoughts?it's clear that the writer doesn't like the character based his statement of "seeing far to much of him", so how objective could he be on his thoughts on the character.also he forgot the part where the Boltons needed to get rid of the remaining Starks including the bastard and make it seem legitimate by marrying Sansa and having a child. Sansa didn't really want to get married or have a kid and Jon had to die ,so even without the extra shit, the fight was going to happen.
 
Game of Thrones explains why Jon Snow's direwolf missed the 'Battle of the Bastards'
By Amon Warmann 4 days ago

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WARNING: This article is dark and full of spoilers.

Game of Thrones' epic 'Battle of the Bastards' had almost everything; Daenerys' fire-breathing dragons, Jon Snow going on a one-man killing spree, and the oh so satisfying death of Ramsay Bolton. One fan-favourite character who was noticeably absent however was Jon's direwolf Ghost, but the episode’s director Miguel Sapochnik has a good reason for leaving him out:

"[Ghost] was in there in spades originally, but it’s also an incredibly time consuming and expensive character to bring to life", Sapochnik told Business Insider. "Ultimately we had to choose between Wun-Wun and the direwolf, so the dog bit the dust".


"Anything with the giant is a challenge", continued Sapochnik, "because he's not there, and you have to shoot multiple layers for each shot, and get extras to react to something that doesn't exist, and then shoot the actual giant played by Ian Whyte months later on a green screen stage".

For those who may not recognize the name, Wun-Wun is the wildling giant who assists and ultimately gives his life for Jon during the battle for Winterfell. Here's hoping that the character's unfortunate fate means that more time and money could be devoted to giving Ghost - one of the few living direwolves - a little more screen time in future episodes.

Season 6 of Game of Thrones airs Sundays on HBO in the US, and Sky Atlantic on Mondays in the UK.

http://www.gamesradar.com/game-of-t...s-direwolf-missed-the-battle-of-the-bastards/

OK so this explains why Jon was just looking at Wun Wun as he was shot and killed, he didn't have anything to react to. I was wondering why it seemed like he was just waiting to let Ramsey finish doing what he wanted to do.
 
good reminder clip...I forget how battle-tested jon truly is...watching his and dany's rise is incredible...interesting to see what will happen if/when they meet
She will let the little guy live. If she can roll with the brother of the guy who killed her father, she will take kindly to the bastard whose son thought murdering a pregnant woman was deplorable.
 
OK so this explains why Jon was just looking at Wun Wun as he was shot and killed, he didn't have anything to react to. I was wondering why it seemed like he was just waiting to let Ramsey finish doing what he wanted to do.

It also explains why Wun Wun never directly interacts with the other major characters. If guess Ghost screen time is done unless its interior shots. If they can't afford to put him in scenes with other CGI characters (White Walkers, Dragons), he won't be making any major battle appearances.
 
It also explains why Wun Wun never directly interacts with the other major characters. If guess Ghost screen time is done unless its interior shots. If they can't afford to put him in scenes with other CGI characters (White Walkers, Dragons), he won't be making any major battle appearances.
Can you believe they just said, "they can't afford it."?
 
Can you believe they just said, "they can't afford it."?

Well I assume the show has an annual budget so the show runners, must run the numbers based on the amount of estimated screen time for CGI characters and be like, "We can only do so many minutes with CGI characters this episode". If this were a movie they'd just pump more money into it and market it more aggressively.

The only way HBO can measure the effectiveness of it's shows are in new subscriptions and retention of existing customers. And the costs keep going up to you got about 5 characters that are going to get 500k PER episode over the next 2 seasons.
 
come on now Jon got his ass whooped and the only reason he was able to win was because of his sword

No, Jon is battle-tested and WON against fierce opponents. It only made him better as a warrior. That's the point. His duel opponents that got in a punches/throws but are fucking DEAD. So that copped plea don't count. lol He won battles without (after being disarmed) his sword as well. Noble/Honor fighting alone would not have made him this good. Legendary warrior status.

As for him not being an expert marksman, he has been shown using bows, swords and daggers as weapons. Expert maybe not but again not that far off from what has been shown in the show.if anything the writer helps my point.why would Ramsey use a bow in close quarters combat.

Show where this non-swordsman has drawn a sword and used it in battle. A sheathed dagger doesn't count lol

You sound like Bernie Sparrow now!



Dany has never put in work herself. Jorah Mormont, Khal Drogo, Barristan Selmy, Daario, Grey Worm, Tyrion, Varys, and those dragons.........that's who deserves credit for Dany's rise. I guess she gets credit for burning the Khal leaders herself, but that's about it.

To be fair, Both Dany and Jon have accomplished great feats after essentially being exiled. Dany amassing a horde army of Unsullied, Dothraki, Second Sons mercenaries, 3 dragons, and two big fleets (from the Greyjoys and displaced Masters) is nothing short of major chess moves in the game.

Thanks to Cercei's never ending fuckups, Tyrion, Barriston Selmy, and Varys became additional resources for Dany. She put in major work going off on her own to acquire the Dothroki. She was never a damsel in distress lol
 
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Wonder if they are saving a bit of the budget to help the last season. I imagine that there will be tons of effects for the war with the White Walkers.
 
I wonder how many people are on the CGI team, and how much they got paid for the last episode. Between the giant and the dragons, that was alot of editing.
 
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A Lannister always pays his debts! This can be both negative and positive as you repay kindness as well as vengeance. You have something magnificent about you that draws people to you. It could be your wit, your charm, your beauty, or your physical abilities. You have it all!
 
Rightfully so....

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Ours is the fury. You're a fun and jolly soul who likes action, adventure, and indulging in your pleasures (perhaps more often than you should). A good fierce and loyal friend; people instantly like you because you're personable funny and get things done
 
Marjorie's house seem to be the most sane house in the land, they are rich, have a big army, and besides Lansel being s fag they have no drama.

All the male Tyrell's are beta men. Either idiots, cowards or homosexuals. Women are in complete charge of that family
 
Semi-BOLD PREDICTIONS

disclaimer: I've never read the books nor do I remember the first 3 seasons that well as I binged watched the hell out of them. For entertainment only. Feel free to drop your own.


Here's a 3 pack for the season finale.

1) Jorah finds the cure. Has to fuck a red witch without getting burned. Dany won't be pleased.

2) Okay Tommen dies, but at who's hands? Margery seems likely if Tommy came for her mirror box. But my money is on...Cersi (Jamie?) . Hell, she's already coddled him to death. She sends the Mountain to kill the king because he's fucking up house Lannister. However, Jamie finds out at the last minute. Fights and defeats the mountain. But in the process mortally wounds Tommen because his dumb ass was too close to the action. I would still love Margery to draw a dagger across his jugular like a finely bowed violin concerto.

3) The Many-Based God, Arya Stark, walked out the house of black n white with a few stolen faces. On her way back West, her boat breaks down (I know, motors don't exist yet. Hence, bold predictions). Yet, she manages to flag down another ship belonging to none other than Dany, Theon, Yara & 'nem while fully disguised. Pledges her services to the Mother of dragons double-agent style.
 
When has Dany ever confronted anyone one-on-one without one of the people I mentioned or a dragon by her side? Has she shown the bravery of a Yara or Brienne or Arya or the subtle manipulation of a Margaery? Point is that she hasn't shown that she can handle herself alone. She hasn't even shown why people should follow her. Her only power is that she looks good and she keeps running across people who want to marry her or fuck her, Yara included!

This season in episode 4 when she stood up to the Dothracki leaders
 
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A Lannister always pays his debts! This can be both negative and positive as you repay kindness as well as vengeance. You have something magnificent about you that draws people to you. It could be your wit, your charm, your beauty, or your physical abilities. You have it all!
y'all nigga mines ran dry, yall niggas us broke
 
No, Jon is battle-tested and WON against fierce opponents. It only made him better as a warrior. That's the point. His duel opponents that got in a punches/throws but are fucking DEAD. So that copped plea don't count. lol He won battles without (after being disarmed) his sword as well. Noble/Honor fighting alone would not have made him this good. Legendary warrior status.



Show where this non-swordsman has drawn a sword and used it in battle. A sheathed dagger doesn't count lol



To be fair, Both Dany and Jon have accomplished great feats after essentially being exiled. Dany amassing a horde army of Unsullied, Dothraki, Second Sons mercenaries, 3 dragons, and two big fleets (from the Greyjoys and displaced Masters) is nothing short of major chess moves in the game.

Thanks to Cercei's never ending fuckups, Tyrion, Barriston Selmy, and Varys became additional resources for Dany. She put in major work going off on her own to acquire the Dothroki. She was never a damsel in distress lol

Not a problem. He used a sword when fighting Stannis troops.he's also used a small mace or ax at some point in the series.

I wouldn't say anything just to be saying it and I typically can back up my statements with facts;not just theories or hyping up the truth to fit my narrative. If by chance Im mistaken, I have no issue saying so.
 
f7e5359c-0b91-43e7-8a97-e0ae0d55f470.jpg


A Lannister always pays his debts! This can be both negative and positive as you repay kindness as well as vengeance. You have something magnificent about you that draws people to you. It could be your wit, your charm, your beauty, or your physical abilities. You have it all!
Same
 
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