Do most BABY MOMMAS get pregnat for BOYFRIENDS or..

[Drayonis]

Dray, what kind of class of females are you asking this from?

Just basic broads that have kids Dayne. Actually the majority are saying the same thing. Out of 7 asked only 2 were "together-together" the rest were dudes that they had open relationships with.

The issue at hand is that the propaganda is saying that black men are abandoning their children.
This leads to the misconceived scenario that "black men are dating (girlfriend) and they live together and as soon as the woman tells him she's pregnant the black man bolts. When it's more or less women having kids for any Tom, Dick and Harpo.

But I find that more times than not "women are just having children with men that they aren't committed to even in the slightest!

We need to focus on fixing this problem by getting more "old heads" to start educating our young women about protecting themselves and their futures at all costs.

Our men need to understand that they need to ALWAYS wear condoms and really take the best advice given to me, "If you can't seeing yourself marrying her then you don't need to have kids with her"..i.e be more picky.

 

[Drayonis]

That's it. And then he girl wants to say he left her, but he was never with her, they were just fucking.

Right, Right...so it's time for the rhetoric to be changed. Whenever we talk about the issues facing the black community we put the "Onus" on the "black man" , we never take into account that many of these woman are just "having kids" with anybody and everybody. Really take a hard look at who has kids in our communities and ask them what the deal was. You'd be shocked to hear that the majority have kids with just a "fuck buddy".

But let the media tell it, and we are dumping our women when they have kids.

 

[Zyin]

Not married and not practicing safe sex = She got pregnant because they both were stupid! End of story!

the sad ass reality of our times

 

[water]

That's it. And then he girl wants to say he left her, but he was never with her, they were just fucking.

i.e he may have been an unknowing participant in her scheme to have a child.

 

[water]

Just basic broads that have kids Dayne. Actually the majority are saying the same thing. Out of 7 asked only 2 were "together-together" the rest were dudes that they had open relationships with.

The issue at hand is that the propaganda is saying that black men are abandoning their children.
This leads to the misconceived scenario that "black men are dating (girlfriend) and they live together and as soon as the woman tells him she's pregnant the black man bolts. When it's more or less women having kids for any Tom, Dick and Harpo.

But I find that more times than not "women are just having children with men that they aren't committed to even in the slightest!

We need to focus on fixing this problem by getting more "old heads" to start educating our young women about protecting themselves and their futures at all costs.

Our men need to understand that they need to ALWAYS wear condoms and really take the best advice given to me, "If you can't seeing yourself marrying her then you don't need to have kids with her"..i.e be more picky.

Dray, you see having the child as a problem.

I don't necessarily believe anything is wrong with having a child as a single parent.

My only issue is for women to be straight up on their reasons for being a single parent.

If single parenting was not frowned upon as much maybe we wouldn't get as much blame but it is face-saving on the part of some black women.


Man........... in the end we are reproducing in enough numbers to re-populate the earth with melanin.

 

[504nino]

Bro, she wanted a child because she is getting old.

The rich could afford to go sperm banks and get some, stay at a fertility clinic etc....

The poor chooses men who will stick and move i.e. they want just the baby.



Same desired outcomes........... different routes.


At the end of the day nature wins.................

the poor kid is just stuck with these two fools for the rest of his life.

 

[bigirl]

Thing is, if you ask a man for a baby or tell him you want one he RUNS so I could understand why women may do it more sneaky if they want a child.

 

[water]

Thing is, if you ask a man for a baby or tell him you want one he RUNS so I could understand why women may do it more sneaky if they want a child.

Have been that guy running several times so I understand the other side of the coin...........


The thing is...... women should really stop blaming men in those cases and accept responsibility............

 

[DarkCity]

Thing is, if you ask a man for a baby or tell him you want one he RUNS so I could understand why women may do it more sneaky if they want a child.

If someone is going to sneak and do anything then don't complain when you are left with the product of your decision.

For the record I don't believe any child should have to grow up in a single parent household. I think it gives a child the short end of the stick and it can be selfish to have a child knowing that the child will not have a father or mother in their life.

 

[Drayonis]

Dray, you see having the child as a problem.

There is a direct correlation between single parenthood and poverty. As long as people who don't have enough money to eat with include their children in the suffering we will continue you to have problems.

I don't necessarily believe anything is wrong with having a child as a single parent.

So how much child support do you pay Kay? I think feminism has rotted the brains of our community by telling women "you can do it alone". By the crime and drugs proliferating in some of our black neighborhoods we can see they were wrong.

 

[Drayonis]

If someone is going to sneak and do anything then don't complain when you are left with the product of your decision.

For the record I don't believe any child should have to grow up in a single parent household. I think it gives a child the short end of the stick and it can be selfish to have a child knowing that the child will not have a father or mother in their life.

Co-sign.

 

[BRUCE LEROY]

Bro, she wanted a child because she is getting old.

The rich could afford to go sperm banks and get some, stay at a fertility clinic etc....

The poor chooses men who will stick and move i.e. they want just the baby.



Same desired outcomes........... different routes.


At the end of the day nature wins.................

This sounds plausible and I tend to agree...in this situation. However, to answer the question...I think boyfriend. I can't see too many chicks getting pregnant (on purpose) by a fuck buddy. I do know chicks getting pregnant by boyfriends that shouldn't even be considered boyfriends.

For example, a chick (who has two adult children [18 & 20])I know has been with her dude for 11 years and knew he was married from day 1. She decides to not only have one kid, but two children from this cat (who already has 2 teenaged children and another one from a third chick). Now, the chick I know is complaining about being tied down with two youngins', no child support and him not being there during the holidays. I told her: he left 3 days before Christmas to be with his "real family"... I didn't say it, but that is what I was thinking.

 

[bigirl]

I agree if the woman wanted the child and did sneaky shit she got no business blaming or complaining.

Again I bring up the point of the couples that split up due to the pressure strain and stress of the child. It still is true alot of men just can't take it and bounce. Many men have 3 4 and 5 children by different mothers.

 

[Drayonis]

I told her: he left 3 days before Christmas to be with his "real family"...

COLD BLOOOODED!!!

 

[TRUFICTION]

BABY MOMMAS GET PREGNANT OUT OF STUPIDITY
NOTHING MORE ...NOTHING LESS.
PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT BRINGING ANOTHER LIFE INTO THE WORLD
AND CANT TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.
ANYONE THAT EVEN CONSIDERS IT IS IRRATIONAL AND
THEREFORE SHOULD NOT DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

IF A WOMAN CANT EVEN GET A MAN OR MAINTAIN A RELATIONSHIP
WHAT MAKES HER THINK SHE CAN REASONABLY RAISE ANOTHER HUMAN BEING
THAT WILL BE SOCIALLY CAPABLE OF NOT BEING JUST AS FUCKED UP AS THEIR MOTHER ?


SHE DIDNT THINK SHE WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO DEMAND
THAT THE FATHER BE HER HUSBAND. ....THERE GOES FAMILY STRUCTURE
IF EVERYONE IN A FAMILY DOES THIS IN TWO GENERATIONS
THAT SO- CALLED FAMILY REUNION SHOULD BE VERY INTERESTING.

ONCE AGAIN THIS IS ANOTHER THREAD WHERE NO ONE WANTS
TO ADMIT THAT MARRIAGE IS IMPORTANT.
WE HAVE YET TO SEE THE FALLOUT OR COST OF HAVING ALL THESE CHILDREN
WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF PROPER VALUES
NOR THE INSTALLATION OF INFORMATION AND EXPERIENCE FROM TWO
FULL TIME PARENTS THAT ARE THERE TO SHARE A CHILDS UPBRINGING
GOOD AND BAD .....UP CLOSE.
NOT ON THAT PARENTS ROTATING WEEKEND

CATS SAY FUCK MARRIAGE
A LOT OF CATS FEEL THIS WAY BECAUSE THEY ARE THE PRODUCT OF THE VERY SAME SCENARIO AND THINK THAT ITS OK.
WOMEN SAY I DONT NEED A MAN
BECAUSE THEYRE MOMS SAID THE SAME THING TO THEM AT AN EARLY AGE
AND CONTINUED TO TEACH AND PREACH THAT BULLSHIT
WHILE REMINDING THEIR DAUGHTERS
THEY THEY WERE BORN WHEN MOM WAS ONLY 16.

THE KIDS GET TO PAY FOR ALL THAT SELF CENTERED BULLSHIT
THE KIDS GROW UP
AND BECOME PART OF THE MIS EDUCATION THAT CREATED THEM
AND MORE OFTEN THAN NOT BECOME A PART OF THE PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX
AMONG OTHER THINGS.

THERE ARE SO MANY FACTORS THAT PLAY INTO THE LINE OF THINKING
THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO FEEL AS THOUGH
ITS OK TO RAISE KIDS ALONE JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN.
I HAVE THREE AND COULD NOT EVEN BEGIN TO IMAGINE ME OR MY WIFE NOT BEING HERE TO RAISE THEM THE RIGHT WAY.
BEING DIVORCED IS ONE THING.
IM NOT JUDGING ANYONE BUT,
JUST HAVING KIDS BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN SELFISH.........................


LET ME STOP CAUSE I WILL HAVE WRITTEN ANOTHER BOOK ON THIS SUBJECT
AND COLIN POWELL AINT FUCKIN WIT ME TODAY
TO EACH HIS OWN

 

[Drayonis]

I agree if the woman wanted the child and did sneaky shit she got no business blaming or complaining.

Again I bring up the point of the couples that split up due to the pressure strain and stress of the child. It still is true alot of men just can't take it and bounce. Many men have 3 4 and 5 children by different mothers.

It seems that you've given up on the notion of marriage in your personal life but you believe in the relationship a "child can bring"? If you are not willing to marry now because you believe it will fall apart as you keep saying, how do you know that you won't leave the child you have once the strain gets too hard? You'd short change your child by doing alone?

 

[Drayonis]

BABY MOMMAS GET PREGNANT OUT OF STUPIDITY
NOTHING MORE ...NOTHING LESS.
SHE DIDNT THINK SHE WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO DEMAND
THAT THE FATHER BE HER HUSBAND. ....THERE GOES FAMILY STRUCTURE
IF EVERYONE IN A FAMILY DOES THIS IN TWO GENERATIONS
THAT SO- CALLED FAMILY REUNION SHOULD BE VERY INTERESTING.

ONCE AGAIN THIS IS ANOTHER THREAD WHERE NO ONE WANTS
TO ADMIT THAT MARRIAGE IS IMPORTANT.
WE HAVE YET TO SEE THE FALLOUT OR COST OF HAVING ALL THESE CHILDREN
WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF PROPER VALUES
NOR THE INSTALLATION OF INFORMATION AND EXPERIENCE FROM TWO
FULL TIME PARENTS THAT ARE THERE TO SHARE A CHILDS UPBRINGING
GOOD AND BAD .....UP CLOSE.
NOT ON THAT PARENTS ROTATING WEEKEND

CATS SAY FUCK MARRIAGE
A LOT OF CATS FEEL THIS WAY BECAUSE THEY ARE THE PRODUCT OF THE VERY SAME SCENARIO AND THINK THAT ITS OK.
WOMEN SAY I DONT NEED A MAN
BECAUSE THEYRE MOMS SAID THE SAME THING TO THEM AT AN EARLY AGE
AND CONTINUED TO TEACH AND PREACH THAT BULLSHIT
WHILE REMINDING THEIR DAUGHTERS
THEY THEY WERE BORN WHEN MOM WAS ONLY 16.

THE KIDS GET TO PAY FOR ALL THAT SELF CENTERED BULLSHIT
THE KIDS GROW UP
AND BECOME PART OF THE MIS EDUCATION THAT CREATED THEM
AND MORE OFTEN THAN NOT BECOME A PART OF THE PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX
AMONG OTHER THING.

THERE ARE SO MANY FACTORS THAT PLAY INTO THE LINE OF THINKING
THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO FEEL AS THOUGH
ITS OK TO RAISE KIDS ALONE JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN.
I HAVE THREE AND COULD NOT EVEN BEGIN TO IMAGINE ME OR MY WIFE NOT BEING HERE TO RAISE THEM THE RIGHT WAY.
BEING DIVORCED IS ONE THING.
IM NOT JUDGING ANYONE BUT,
JUST HAVING KIDS BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN SELFISH.........................


LET ME STOP CAUSE I WILL HAVE WRITTEN ANOTHER BOOK ON THIS SUBJECT
AND COLIN POWELL AINT FUCKIN WIT ME TODAY
TO EACH HIS OWN

PREACH BROTHER PREACH!

I too believe marriage is important. Many of the problems that we have is because people have abandoned marriage for the go it alone attitude. How can you begin to commit time and energy to your children when you aren't even willing to commit time and energy to a healthy relationship where you can raise your child together?

 

[Blu Diablo]

Dray you are asking for a generalized answer to something thats really a case by case situation.

 

[bigirl]

It seems that you've given up on the notion of marriage in your personal life but you believe in the relationship a "child can bring"? If you are not willing to marry now because you believe it will fall apart as you keep saying, how do you know that you won't leave the child you have once the strain gets too hard? You'd short change your child by doing alone?

Why are you putting words in my mouth? I never said anything even close to that. How could a woman leave her own child? Thats ridiculous. I am 37 years old and nobody asked me to marry them plus all I see is married people getting divorced after a few years and remarrying and then repeating the same cycle. Whats to believe in?

 

[CPT Callamity]

Interesting question.

I've seen too many chicks break up with their boyfriend shortly before or after giving birth. It's almost methodical.

I think the majority of these kids are being born via jumpoff sex that goes wrong. The finger pointing and slandering is real easy under those conditions. Regardless, unwanted pregnancies can be prevented but playing the victim is too convenient.

I don't want to hear the excuses. 13 forms of birth control for women, 2 or 3 for men. What's so hard to understand about that? Not understanding that means...drum roll...strong possibility for preganancy.

 

[Twistyaaliyah]

Id say boyfriend without a doubt.However, they are gonna b mistakes with the fuck buddy soo.....

 

[nyeleman]

Women are the only creatures that can tell themselves a lie and believe it. A woman can brand a guy she met one night and slept with a boyfriend who she clicked with at the club while t-pain was playing. The reason why they don't come outright and say the got pregnant by a fuck buddy who saw them as a jumpoff is because they want to have a story to tell the child and people around them so that it sounds close to legitimate. No woman will ever accept the fact that they got pregnant by a fuck buddy . They will see the dude as a fuck budy but the minute she falls pregnant her mind will convince itself that she had a relationship and was a damsel in distress that was in a relationship which suddenly chnaged the minute she got pregnant. Imagine telling a child that she was born because of sexual urges that were fueled by drink and music, sadly a lot of kids were born this way and are usually given the usual common story of which most of the board knows

 

[TRUFICTION]

Why are you putting words in my mouth? I never said anything even close to that. How could a woman leave her own child? Thats ridiculous. I am 37 years old and nobody asked me to marry them plus all I see is married people getting divorced after a few years and remarrying and then repeating the same cycle. Whats to believe in?

I DONT SEE WHAT YOU SEE OF COURSE....IM NOT WHERE YOU ARE
A CHANGE OF ENVIRONMENT MAY FIND YOU THINKING DIFFERENTLY.

 

[Legacyns]

Sister gets pregnant for her "boyfriend" and "boyfriend" abandons her and child!

VS.

Girl gets pregnant for "guy she hardly knows" and he DECIDES to not be with her after he finds out.

I don't know how we can quantify the percentages but let's be honest, there are way more in the latter than people are comfortable admitting. We all probably know a few in each category. However, in spite of a poor decision by a woman, if a man gets her pregnant, regardless of his initial intention, he's still got a responsibility to that child.

If someone is going to sneak and do anything then don't complain when you are left with the product of your decision.

For the record I don't believe any child should have to grow up in a single parent household. I think it gives a child the short end of the stick and it can be selfish to have a child knowing that the child will not have a father or mother in their life.

 

[Jack Spade]

I'm in Houston, Texas. The thing is when I question many (single women with children) about the relationship they had that resulted getting pregnant. More times than not, these guys "are not" their boyfriend but rather a dude they were just fucking and they got "pregnant".

In some cases they couldn't tell the difference between a man being their boyfriend or a fuck buddy.

One chick said she was with a guy for a whole year, yet had never been to his house, had never met his family and knew none of his friends. Every time they kicked it, she would meet him somewhere and they'd hit the motel afterwards. She gets pregnant and is upset that his people said he NEVER mentioned her ever. In fact he had a woman he lived with. Up till now she swears that was her Boyfriend.

Bruh man, I just got re-aquainted with a chick I used to kick it with real tough about 12 years ago. Lost contact with her for years and ran into her at a club. She had just moved back to my city and the story she gave me on why she came home was almost the exact same story as you told above.....almost to the tee....that's fuckin scary.

 

[BlackWolverine06]

I know of both situations. Chicks gettin pregnant to keep a dude and 2 fools just fuckin w/o a rubber and shit happens.

 

[xfactor]

Do most BABY MOMMAS get pregnant for BOYFRIENDS

This happens but...

....Niccas they are just fucking?

Sadly, this is the one that I think occurs more often.

From my experience, when a female gets pregnant in a relationship, the father will either marry the mother or he will keep a healthy relationship with her and the child.

On the other hand, if the man was just using the female as a side piece and she gets pregnant, he most like doesn't believe that it is his or decides to remove himself from the situation anyway from lack of trust with the bitch.

I believe if a man gets a woman pregnant and it is proven that it is his he should man up and take care of the kid. Sadly, a lot of brothas hold the fact that the kid's mother is a wreckless, lying bitch against the kid, and that's just not fair.

Which causes the cycle to keep repeating it self.

 

[Leeeeeee]

Thing is, if you ask a man for a baby or tell him you want one he RUNS so I could understand why women may do it more sneaky if they want a child.

Now that's fucked. You sneak in the house after yo ass should have been home at 10. You sneak the last piece of pie. But sneaking a child into this world....that's a fucked up bitch.

 

[DiamondDeuce]

I know that this will never happen but I wish the law would be changed:

That A woman can ONLY receive mandatory child support as a result of a divorce.

Or

If the man signed an agreement giving his signed consent to bring the child into the world.


A woman has the power to decide if a child is born into the world or not (abortion)...cuz women say its THEIR BODIES which is fine.....but a man should not have to pay for a decision you make without his consent.

See how many out-of-wedlock babies you have then.

 

[DAYNE]

Dray, you see having the child as a problem.

I don't necessarily believe anything is wrong with having a child as a single parent.

My only issue is for women to be straight up on their reasons for being a single parent.

If single parenting was not frowned upon as much maybe we wouldn't get as much blame but it is face-saving on the part of some black women.


Man........... in the end we are reproducing in enough numbers to re-populate the earth with melanin.

If their arn't two parents in a household certain kids go buck wild fucking crazy. They drop out of school, they run over their mothers, and they end up being a waste of fucking life. I've seen the shit all the fucking time.

 

[Dannyblueyes]

....Niccas they are just fucking? Settle this argument for me.

My homegirl over at my board believes in the old scenario...

Sister gets pregnant for her "boyfriend" and "boyfriend" abandons her and child!

VS.

Girl gets pregnant for "guy she hardly knows" and he DECIDES to not be with her after he finds out.
-------------------------------------------------------
My ex girlfriend just called me today (January 22nd 2008) to tell me she's 3 months pregnant. Hooray? When I inquired about when she was getting married she said, "Married? Me and old boy never even dated! I just want a healthy baby is all".

I asked another question, "Damn does he have any other kids?"
She replied, "I dunno..I think he said he had 3-4 others"
I asked, "where does he live"?
She replied "In Dallas..he's taking the bus down here to Houston this weekend to hang out"
I asked another one, "what are you going to do for money, I mean you don't make that much already"

Her reply, "I don't care about the money, I just want a healthy baby".
"Child support"? I asked...
"I don't care if he writes me a check or not, I got this, I'm 33 years old and getting older it time for me to have a baby of my own".

Right now I know 3 women in this SAME EXACT SITUATION, yet my homegirl is still sticking to the fallacy that black men are leaving their "girlfriends" vs women getting knocked up by "fuck buddies".

If he's taking a bus down all the way from Dallas to Houston just to hang out for a weekend then he's either a boyfriend or a simp.

 

[TRUFICTION]

If he's taking a bus down all the way from Dallas to Houston just to hang out for a weekend then he's either a boyfriend or a simp.

OR A BROKE CAT WITH NO CAR.........THE BUS ?

 

[Laughing Man]

....Niccas they are just fucking? Settle this argument for me.

My homegirl over at my board believes in the old scenario...

Sister gets pregnant for her "boyfriend" and "boyfriend" abandons her and child!

VS.

Girl gets pregnant for "guy she hardly knows" and he DECIDES to not be with her after he finds out.
-------------------------------------------------------
My ex girlfriend just called me today (January 22nd 2008) to tell me she's 3 months pregnant. Hooray? When I inquired about when she was getting married she said, "Married? Me and old boy never even dated! I just want a healthy baby is all".

I asked another question, "Damn does he have any other kids?"
She replied, "I dunno..I think he said he had 3-4 others"
I asked, "where does he live"?
She replied "In Dallas..he's taking the bus down here to Houston this weekend to hang out"
I asked another one, "what are you going to do for money, I mean you don't make that much already"

Her reply, "I don't care about the money, I just want a healthy baby".
"Child support"? I asked...
"I don't care if he writes me a check or not, I got this, I'm 33 years old and getting older it time for me to have a baby of my own".

Right now I know 3 women in this SAME EXACT SITUATION, yet my homegirl is still sticking to the fallacy that black men are leaving their "girlfriends" vs women getting knocked up by "fuck buddies".

Dray, when that damn clock of there's starts ticking down, all sense is lost

This delusional type of entitlement to have a kid no matter what and by who has fucked over the black community severely, and now its spreading to everywhere else

Its all rosy until they see they have no freedom, and it all knocks them back down to earth

You're girl is just denying reality, because she may be a single mother herself, and dont want to be lumped into the category of these dirtbags bringing in kids into fucked up situations, and do it with sorry ass niggas and denying them proper fathers and have no backup as well

 

[max-dawg]

a better question:

DO MEN GET WOMEN PREGNANT OR DO WOMEN ALLOW THEMSELVES TO GET PREGNANT?

my point: women are in TOTAL control of when they get pregnant. they know their cycles, they know when they're ovulating, they know how long if they switch birth control pills, etc.

what's more disturbing is why do they let NICCAS SKEET RAW DOG WHEN THEY ARE THE #1 VICTIM OF HIV?

bottom line: women, esp. black women, need to take responsibility for THEIR own actions. period.

if the nicca has no rubber, he gets no pussy. how fucking hard is that to follow? otherwise, you're risking pregnancy and maybe your damn life.



and then they wonder why so many niccas are marrying outside their race... mufuckas tired of meeting women with all these damn kids by various, random, broke niccas.

 

[T. Hart]

....Niccas they are just fucking? Settle this argument for me.

My homegirl over at my board believes in the old scenario...

Sister gets pregnant for her "boyfriend" and "boyfriend" abandons her and child!

VS.

Girl gets pregnant for "guy she hardly knows" and he DECIDES to not be with her after he finds out.
-------------------------------------------------------
My ex girlfriend just called me today (January 22nd 2008) to tell me she's 3 months pregnant. Hooray? When I inquired about when she was getting married she said, "Married? Me and old boy never even dated! I just want a healthy baby is all".

I asked another question, "Damn does he have any other kids?"
She replied, "I dunno..I think he said he had 3-4 others"
I asked, "where does he live"?
She replied "In Dallas..he's taking the bus down here to Houston this weekend to hang out"
I asked another one, "what are you going to do for money, I mean you don't make that much already"

Her reply, "I don't care about the money, I just want a healthy baby".
"Child support"? I asked...
"I don't care if he writes me a check or not, I got this, I'm 33 years old and getting older it time for me to have a baby of my own".

Right now I know 3 women in this SAME EXACT SITUATION, yet my homegirl is still sticking to the fallacy that black men are leaving their "girlfriends" vs women getting knocked up by "fuck buddies".

Geeeeezzzz I know a few females like that in the Houston area, shit sounds gross as fuck but when you fuck em, and bust on em...when they play with shit between their thumb and index fingers..ni^^a they lookin for that thick white snot as Devin called it...if you pass the test you might be a baby daddy (next time). But alot of 30+ yr old women want just that a baby, then they claim I dont need you...ok you might not need the money but the child needs a father. It aint like havin a puppy or a pet bird thats the misconception these females have today.