Crazy Question: Who would win this battle: The Avengers vs The Justice League?

[WattDogs]

As if lightning is really gonna affect anyone you mentioned other than Bats.

C'mon...

And BTW, I forgot, we have a magical probability creator (Silver Sorceress) & a cosmic powered being (Scarlet Skier) with the JLA...I forgot all about them (thank you, Keith Griffen!).

Your only chance is the Hulks. Real talk.

 

[assmaster1]

dude bitches up at the first sign of a green rock.

superman pushes planets
thor's hammer in hand can shatter planets
world war hulk just walking can shatter planets
Doomsday is an imitation Hulk and beat supes to death.

you really have to ask?

Red solar radiation (hand guns that were used on New Krypton by Zod's miltary).
green and gold kryptonite.
keep him out of the sun for an extended period of time while fighting.
etc...

Umm who gonna stop Superman and how??? But im a big avengers/marvel cat. How do you kill superman?

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

You people have NO FUCKING IDEA what you're talking about. NONE. Absolutely NONE. Wtf? "I could say the same thing the hulk could toss Superman into the sun? " Wtf? What the holy fuck?! You don't know shit about thier powers or abilities and then just throw out the most insane shit. The Hulk could take out the entire Justice League? You people are frickin nuts. And i don't even have to go deep into the JLA rosters, i can use the Big 7 and end the entire discussion. This whole thing is over before it even begins because the Avengers have no telepaths.

I'm getting Grant Morrisons JLA
Superman - Post Zero Hour Superman back to moving planets type powers and using superspeed in fights.
Wonder Woman - Pretty much a female superman just a little bit weaker.
Aquaman - 2nd most powerful telepath on the planet, strength invulnerability - etc etc the regular aqua stuff.
Martian Manhunter - ALL THE POWERS OF SUPERMAN, even Strength, PLUS TELEPATHY AND HE'S THE MOST POWERFUL TELEPATH ON THE PLANET. And shapechanging
Orion - As strong as Superman, and a thousand years of battle experience, plus his Astro Harness that allows him to shoot holes through real big mountains if he has too. And it's powerful enough to block Darkseid's Omega effect
Barda - Pretty much Wonder Woman with a more kick ass attitude and strength
Steel - DC"s version of Iron Man
Zauriel - AN Angel, That's right. You heard me. A frickin ANGEL!!
Flash - And my favorite, Wally West. The God of Speed. Light Speed travel. Manipulation of the speedforce Wally West. Look up light speed. And then Look up Quicksilver and do the math there. Flash out paces Quicksilver by a million miles. He can also control kinetic energy.
Huntress - A bat substitute but she's aiight.
Oracle - Computer genius and ops center
Green Lantern - Kyle Rayner, outside of Parallax, the most powerful Lantern ever.

Please explain to me how the Avengers have this kind of power on the team? The only high level being that Marvel even has is Sentry and Blue Marvel. And Sentry wasn't an Avenger really. Superman and Wonder Woman and Martian can hang with Flash in speed for a little bit. That's 4 superspeedsters. Green Lantern can open up worm holes. He can pretty much teleport. You guys keep talking about Thor, Mjolnir doesn't do any extra damage to Superman unless Thor is doing a godblast. Which he's only done like 3 - 4 times in his entire history. Lighting isn't going to effect ANY of the superpowered members of the avengers. Not even Steel his armor absorbs the energy. Ya'll need to stay out of these threads if you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

You people have NO FUCKING IDEA what you're talking about. NONE. Absolutely NONE. Wtf? "I could say the same thing the hulk could toss Superman into the sun? " Wtf? What the holy fuck?! You don't know shit about thier powers or abilities and then just throw out the most insane shit. The Hulk could take out the entire Justice League? You people are frickin nuts. And i don't even have to go deep into the JLA rosters, i can use the Big 7 and end the entire discussion. This whole thing is over before it even begins because the Avengers have no telepaths.

I'm getting Grant Morrisons JLA
Superman - Post Zero Hour Superman back to moving planets type powers and using superspeed in fights.
Wonder Woman - Pretty much a female superman just a little bit weaker.
Aquaman - 2nd most powerful telepath on the planet, strength invulnerability - etc etc the regular aqua stuff.
Martian Manhunter - ALL THE POWERS OF SUPERMAN, even Strength, PLUS TELEPATHY AND HE'S THE MOST POWERFUL TELEPATH ON THE PLANET. And shapechanging
Orion - As strong as Superman, and a thousand years of battle experience, plus his Astro Harness that allows him to shoot holes through real big mountains if he has too. And it's powerful enough to block Darkseid's Omega effect
Barda - Pretty much Wonder Woman with a more kick ass attitude and strength
Steel - DC"s version of Iron Man
Zauriel - AN Angel, That's right. You heard me. A frickin ANGEL!!
Flash - And my favorite, Wally West. The God of Speed. Light Speed travel. Manipulation of the speedforce Wally West. Look up light speed. And then Look up Quicksilver and do the math there. Flash out paces Quicksilver by a million miles. He can also control kinetic energy.
Huntress - A bat substitute but she's aiight.
Oracle - Computer genius and ops center
Green Lantern - Kyle Rayner, outside of Parallax, the most powerful Lantern ever.

Please explain to me how the Avengers have this kind of power on the team? The only high level being that Marvel even has is Sentry and Blue Marvel. And Sentry wasn't an Avenger really. Superman and Wonder Woman and Martian can hang with Flash in speed for a little bit. That's 4 superspeedsters. Green Lantern can open up worm holes. He can pretty much teleport. You guys keep talking about Thor, Mjolnir doesn't do any extra damage to Superman unless Thor is doing a godblast. Which he's only done like 3 - 4 times in his entire history. Lighting isn't going to effect ANY of the superpowered members of the avengers. Not even Steel his armor absorbs the energy. Ya'll need to stay out of these threads if you don't know what you're talking about.

That's a tough team and they would beat most Avenger line ups.

But one thing:
Sentry was an Avenger. He was on Iron Man's team with Wonderman, Ms Marvel, and Ares.

 

[J Storm]

Hercules can be killed (see Sentry killing Ares) but Superman, the only guy who would be capable, isnt going to do it.

I actually think Namor > Aquaman and Flash > Quicksilver. But that Vision/Martian Manhunter fight could be good.

Namor = Can Fly
Aquaman = Can Communicate with Sea Animals for help


Flash = Fastest but needs Speed Force
Quicksilver = Naturally born that way.

 

[Damn Right]

all the superman stans are gonna say JL. but like homie said... depends on the lineup

and who would the avenger 'stans' say?

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Namor = Can Fly
Aquaman = Can Communicate with Sea Animals for help


Flash = Fastest but needs Speed Force
Quicksilver = Naturally born that way.

Namor is equally effective on land as he is in the water. Aquaman can command with sea animals but that doesn't do you any good on dry land and there aren't any animals that can turn the tide against Namor. Plus Namor can summon different sea beasts as well and has in the past and he can take on certain abilities of certain fish like electric eel and puffer fish.

Flash's power is based on the Speed Force so while Quicksilver is a mutant, Flash is much faster.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

That's a tough team and they would beat most Avenger line ups.

But one thing:
Sentry was an Avenger. He was on Iron Man's team with Wonderman, Ms Marvel, and Ares.

I forgot about that line up. But even still that's 1 DC level hero. Against 4 - 5 godlike beings. These people on that avengers stuff need to gtfo.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I forgot about that line up. But even still that's 1 DC level hero. Against 4 - 5 godlike beings. These people on that avengers stuff need to gtfo.

Agreed.

The two teams are just two different things. The Avengers are the best while the Justice League are the most powerful.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Namor = Can Fly
Aquaman = Can Communicate with Sea Animals for help


Flash = Fastest but needs Speed Force
Quicksilver = Naturally born that way.

You do know that Arthur is superstrong too right? He's got speed and all that other shit that Namor has. As well the ability to use telepathic attacks. Back then. Now we don't know. But back then he could. Wally West was mainlining the speedforce. It's not something that could take away from him. That's like taking away Quicksilvers mutantncy. Wally could move faster than light. Quicksilver i think, not sure and don't feel like looking it up could only go at Mach 2 - Ok revised. Apparently they're still using the terrigen mists thing with Quicksilver. So he can time travel. Wally can too.

 

[LordSinister]

You people have NO FUCKING IDEA what you're talking about. NONE. Absolutely NONE. Wtf? "I could say the same thing the hulk could toss Superman into the sun? " Wtf? What the holy fuck?! You don't know shit about thier powers or abilities and then just throw out the most insane shit. The Hulk could take out the entire Justice League? You people are frickin nuts. And i don't even have to go deep into the JLA rosters, i can use the Big 7 and end the entire discussion. This whole thing is over before it even begins because the Avengers have no telepaths.

I'm getting Grant Morrisons JLA
Superman - Post Zero Hour Superman back to moving planets type powers and using superspeed in fights.
Wonder Woman - Pretty much a female superman just a little bit weaker.
Aquaman - 2nd most powerful telepath on the planet, strength invulnerability - etc etc the regular aqua stuff.
Martian Manhunter - ALL THE POWERS OF SUPERMAN, even Strength, PLUS TELEPATHY AND HE'S THE MOST POWERFUL TELEPATH ON THE PLANET. And shapechanging
Orion - As strong as Superman, and a thousand years of battle experience, plus his Astro Harness that allows him to shoot holes through real big mountains if he has too. And it's powerful enough to block Darkseid's Omega effect
Barda - Pretty much Wonder Woman with a more kick ass attitude and strength
Steel - DC"s version of Iron Man
Zauriel - AN Angel, That's right. You heard me. A frickin ANGEL!!
Flash - And my favorite, Wally West. The God of Speed. Light Speed travel. Manipulation of the speedforce Wally West. Look up light speed. And then Look up Quicksilver and do the math there. Flash out paces Quicksilver by a million miles. He can also control kinetic energy.
Huntress - A bat substitute but she's aiight.
Oracle - Computer genius and ops center
Green Lantern - Kyle Rayner, outside of Parallax, the most powerful Lantern ever.

Please explain to me how the Avengers have this kind of power on the team? The only high level being that Marvel even has is Sentry and Blue Marvel. And Sentry wasn't an Avenger really. Superman and Wonder Woman and Martian can hang with Flash in speed for a little bit. That's 4 superspeedsters. Green Lantern can open up worm holes. He can pretty much teleport. You guys keep talking about Thor, Mjolnir doesn't do any extra damage to Superman unless Thor is doing a godblast. Which he's only done like 3 - 4 times in his entire history. Lighting isn't going to effect ANY of the superpowered members of the avengers. Not even Steel his armor absorbs the energy. Ya'll need to stay out of these threads if you don't know what you're talking about.

All valid points, however it depends on how the series is written, and who is on the Avengers.

IMHO Mjolnir should knock out Clark with one hit. Going back to pre-crises, Superman has always had a weakness with Magic. Hell, back when Krypto could ignite a dead world with his heat vision and make suns, Mordru was fucking him up.

The problem comes down to speed and telepathy.

If the Avengers have Quasar and Nova, they both have resistance to telepathy and both are fast. Quasar can jump light years in seconds, and the Quantum bands don't need recharging.

So, if the Avengers are:

Cap
Iron man
Thor
Hulk
Scarlet Witch
Quasar
Nova
The Vision
The Sentry
Binary
Sersi
Doctor Strange
Namor
Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman
And the Red Hulk

I say the question is a good one. My team under cap takes at least 55% of the fights.

 

[assmaster1]

My response below.

You people have NO FUCKING IDEA what you're talking about. NONE. Absolutely NONE. Wtf? "I could say the same thing the hulk could toss Superman into the sun? " Wtf? What the holy fuck?! You don't know shit about thier powers or abilities and then just throw out the most insane shit. The Hulk could take out the entire Justice League? You people are frickin nuts. And i don't even have to go deep into the JLA rosters, i can use the Big 7 and end the entire discussion. This whole thing is over before it even begins because the Avengers have no telepaths.

I'm getting Grant Morrisons JLA
Superman - Post Zero Hour Superman back to moving planets type powers and using superspeed in fights.
Thor
Wonder Woman - Pretty much a female superman just a little bit weaker.
Ms Marvel's invulnerability greater than WW bracelets
Aquaman - 2nd most powerful telepath on the planet, strength invulnerability - etc etc the regular aqua stuff.
Namor
Martian Manhunter - ALL THE POWERS OF SUPERMAN, even Strength, PLUS TELEPATHY AND HE'S THE MOST POWERFUL TELEPATH ON THE PLANET. And shapechanging
Vision
Orion - As strong as Superman, and a thousand years of battle experience, plus his Astro Harness that allows him to shoot holes through real big mountains if he has too. And it's powerful enough to block Darkseid's Omega effect
Sentry
Barda - Pretty much Wonder Woman with a more kick ass attitude and strength
Wonder Man
Steel - DC"s version of Iron Man
not eeven going to mention who you already know
Zauriel - AN Angel, That's right. You heard me. A frickin ANGEL!!
Hercules
Flash - And my favorite, Wally West. The God of Speed. Light Speed travel. Manipulation of the speedforce Wally West. Look up light speed. And then Look up Quicksilver and do the math there. Flash out paces Quicksilver by a million miles. He can also control kinetic energy.
Huntress - A bat substitute but she's aiight.
Spiderman will beat that ass all day every day and joke about it
Oracle - Computer genius and ops center
The Man called Pym
Green Lantern - Kyle Rayner, outside of Parallax, the most powerful Lantern ever.
a lantern really....I'll just let Moon Dragon or Scarlet Witch fuck with his mind have him attack all his allies then kill himself.

Please explain to me how the Avengers have this kind of power on the team? The only high level being that Marvel even has is Sentry and Blue Marvel. And Sentry wasn't an Avenger really. Superman and Wonder Woman and Martian can hang with Flash in speed for a little bit. That's 4 superspeedsters. Green Lantern can open up worm holes. He can pretty much teleport. You guys keep talking about Thor, Mjolnir doesn't do any extra damage to Superman unless Thor is doing a godblast. Which he's only done like 3 - 4 times in his entire history. Lighting isn't going to effect ANY of the superpowered members of the avengers. Not even Steel his armor absorbs the energy. Ya'll need to stay out of these threads if you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

My response below.

The problem I have with your lineup is that's never been an active Avengers team. I didn't read Morrison's run on "JLA" when Superman went red/blue (which should be noted if you're going to use his team) so I don't know when all of those guys were on that team but I know Namor, Spidey, Herc, Ms Marvel and Sentry have never been on the same team at the same time.

 

[assmaster1]

you do realize that her team was not all one active line up either.
She was talking about pre-crisis Superman to start.

The problem I have with your lineup is that's never been an active Avengers team. I didn't read Morrison's run on "JLA" when Superman went red/blue (which should be noted if you're going to use his team) so I don't know when all of those guys were on that team but I know Namor, Spidey, Herc, Ms Marvel and Sentry have never been on the same team at the same time.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

you do realize that her team was not all one active line up either.
She was talking about pre-crisis Superman to start.

Since I wasn't a big DC fan, I couldn't say much about that lineup she offered. I was hoping someone with more DC/JLA knowledge would help out on that.
That's why my first post was "it depends on the teams". The JLA has had some killer teams and they've had some shitty and the Avengers the same.

 

[assmaster1]

This is true.
It depends on the writers and the teams in play.

I was just showing who could match her team that was or is an avenger without Hulk.

Since I wasn't a big DC fan, I couldn't say much about that lineup she offered. I was hoping someone with more DC/JLA knowledge would help out on that.
That's why my first post was "it depends on the teams". The JLA has had some killer teams and they've had some shitty and the Avengers the same.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

This is true.
It depends on the writers and the teams in play.

I was just showing who could match her team that was or is an avenger without Hulk.

Gotcha

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

All valid points, however it depends on how the series is written, and who is on the Avengers.

IMHO Mjolnir should knock out Clark with one hit. Going back to pre-crises, Superman has always had a weakness with Magic. Hell, back when Krypto could ignite a dead world with his heat vision and make suns, Mordru was fucking him up.

Superman doesn't have a weakness to magic. It effects him just like everyone else is all. That's not a weakness. Him being hit with mjolnir isn't going to do him ANY extra damage. People think magic is like kryptonite to him and it's not.

The problem comes down to speed and telepathy.

If the Avengers have Quasar and Nova, they both have resistance to telepathy and both are fast. Quasar can jump light years in seconds, and the Quantum bands don't need recharging.

So, if the Avengers are:

Cap
Iron man
Thor
Hulk
Scarlet Witch
Quasar
Nova
The Vision
The Sentry
Binary
Sersi
Doctor Strange
Namor
Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman
And the Red Hulk

I say the question is a good one. My team under cap takes at least 55% of the fights.

As a mod i would like for you to make it an edict for these types of threads to say people making them have to post teams and set rules for engagement. Otherwise this is all nonsense.

 

[darkninja7000]

I forgot about that line up. But even still that's 1 DC level hero. Against 4 - 5 godlike beings. These people on that avengers stuff need to gtfo.

you do know that thor and hercules are both gods right? not god like ... not angels... but gods right?

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Since I wasn't a big DC fan, I couldn't say much about that lineup she offered. I was hoping someone with more DC/JLA knowledge would help out on that.
That's why my first post was "it depends on the teams". The JLA has had some killer teams and they've had some shitty and the Avengers the same.

No i wasn't. It was a team. JLA when Morrison took over had all those people on it.

you do realize that her team was not all one active line up either.
She was talking about pre-crisis Superman to start.

No i wasn't, i said he was pretty much back to precrisis levels. And i don't care about who was on a team when. Thor doesn't out class superman in powers.


IF YOU'RE DOING THIS 1 ON 1.

Thor is not as strong as superman just on strength alone. Heat vision wouldn't hurt Thor but neither would lightning hurt superman. A god blast could probably hurt Superman but being that it's really just an energy blast it wouldn't do anymore more than some others. Superman takes this fight.

Ms Marvel is NOWHERE NEAR WONDER WOMAN'S INVULNERABILITY OR STRENGTH. You're seriously bugging. WW can go toe to toe with Superman, in high speed combat. Carol can't. Ms. Marvel possesses incredible superhuman strength and durability, can fly at roughly half the speed of sound, retains her Seventh Sense, and discharge explosive blasts of radiant energy, which she fires from her fingertips. She also demonstrates the ability to absorb other forms of energy, such as electricity, to further magnify her strength and energy projection, up to the force of an exploding nuclear weapon. When sufficiently augmented, she can withstand the pressure from a 92-ton weight, and strike with a similar level of force, although Hank Pym theorized that this likely was not her limit. Carol cannot absorb magical energy without consequence, though she aided Dr. Stephen Strange in the defeat of the mystic menace Sir Warren Traveler.

Namor's not a telepath and would be vulnerable to psionic attack from Aquaman, and it's the ONLY leg up i give to Aquaman. This is a pretty equalfight especially since they're basically the same character.

Vision doesn't stand a chance against MM. MM's strength level is on par with Superman. Visions is barely 75 tons. He can boost up to 100 tons but then he breaks down. You can't fuck with a shape changers density, that's kind of the whole point. MM in the end just rips Vision apart. The vision can't DO anything to MM either.

Sentry might take Orion after a long ass fight. But even then i'ts a 50/50 thing with me because Sentry's powers are still so vague.

Zauriel take hercules because he's just smarter. And he's got more powers than Herc. So fighting Herc in a hand to hand just wouldn't be smart. And plus superhuman demi gods aren't on the same level as Angels and if Zauriel was going of the kill he'd use his sonic scream to atomize Herc. Since it atomizes other Angels.

You have no answer for the Flash.

Pym and Oracle ... that wouldn' tbe a fight. She's handicapped.

Kyle Rainer was 1 of the most powerful GL's ever as Ion. Plus you can't just take over a GL's mind because the ring counters psionic attacks and mind control.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Gotcha

He didn't really match anyone up except 3. Sinister's team has a better chance at beating mine.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

you do know that thor and hercules are both gods right? not god like ... not angels... but gods right?

Thor is, and technically Hercules is a demi god not a full god. And thus weaker. His only power really is superstrength. Herc can be killed, through sufficient pummeling by a being strong enough and can be atomized. And you're bringing up still 2 to my 7.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

As a mod i would like for you to make it an edict for these types of threads to say people making them have to post teams and set rules for engagement. Otherwise this is all nonsense.

No i wasn't. It was a team. JLA when Morrison took over had all those people on it.

Cool. I'll take your word for it.

IF YOU'RE DOING THIS 1 ON 1.

Thor is not as strong as superman just on strength alone. Heat vision wouldn't hurt Thor but neither would lightning hurt superman. A god blast could probably hurt Superman but being that it's really just an energy blast it wouldn't do anymore more than some others. Superman takes this fight.

I disagree. Superman has an edge in raw strength but Thor beats him on the basis Wonder Woman does: thousands of years of combat experience with foes on his level or greater.

Ms Marvel is NOWHERE NEAR WONDER WOMAN'S INVULNERABILITY OR STRENGTH. You're seriously bugging. WW can go toe to toe with Superman, in high speed combat. Carol can't. Ms. Marvel possesses incredible superhuman strength and durability, can fly at roughly half the speed of sound, retains her Seventh Sense, and discharge explosive blasts of radiant energy, which she fires from her fingertips. She also demonstrates the ability to absorb other forms of energy, such as electricity, to further magnify her strength and energy projection, up to the force of an exploding nuclear weapon. When sufficiently augmented, she can withstand the pressure from a 92-ton weight, and strike with a similar level of force, although Hank Pym theorized that this likely was not her limit. Carol cannot absorb magical energy without consequence, though she aided Dr. Stephen Strange in the defeat of the mystic menace Sir Warren Traveler.

Binary could beat WW but Ms Marvel can't. I agree.

Namor's not a telepath and would be vulnerable to psionic attack from Aquaman, and it's the ONLY leg up i give to Aquaman. This is a pretty equalfight especially since they're basically the same character.

Absolutely not. Namor is much stronger than Aquaman and unless Namor becomes a real fish or they've tweaked Aquaman again (the real disadvantage for Marvel heroes is DC has retconned and changed their characters so many times, it's hard to keep up with what they can and cannot do), he's not vulnerable to his psi powers. So that one advantage doesn't help him in the slightest.

Vision doesn't stand a chance against MM. MM's strength level is on par with Superman. Visions is barely 75 tons. He can boost up to 100 tons but then he breaks down. You can't fuck with a shape changers density, that's kind of the whole point. MM in the end just rips Vision apart. The vision can't DO anything to MM either.

Maybe. But MM's weakness being as lame as fire puts him at a disadvantage against a guy powered by the sun who shoots heat beam.

Sentry might take Orion after a long ass fight. But even then i'ts a 50/50 thing with me because Sentry's powers are still so vague.

I got Sentry in a good, long fight.

Zauriel take hercules because he's just smarter. And he's got more powers than Herc. So fighting Herc in a hand to hand just wouldn't be smart. And plus superhuman demi gods aren't on the same level as Angels and if Zauriel was going of the kill he'd use his sonic scream to atomize Herc. Since it atomizes other Angels.

I guess. You underestimate Hercule's intelligence greatly, though. Like Thor and WW, he's got thousands of years of combat experience so going with Zauriel (a lame character) is okay but not in a walk.

You have no answer for the Flash.

Nope. Without telepaths, they don't. But then again, technically there never should be but there always is.

Kyle Rainer was 1 of the most powerful GL's ever as Ion. Plus you can't just take over a GL's mind because the ring counters psionic attacks and mind control.

I thought he wasn't Ion anymore and when he was, when I was reading the book, he was more on Oa with the GLs than with the JLA.
You don't need a psi to take over a GL ring, just someone with stronger will and that is Captain America.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Thor is, and technically Hercules is a demi god not a full god. And thus weaker. His only power really is superstrength. Herc can be killed, through sufficient pummeling by a being strong enough and can be atomized. And you're bringing up still 2 to my 7.

Hercules is a god. He died and Zeus granted him immortality. But the Olympians can be killed, just as the Sentry killed Ares, who was nearly as strong as Hercules.

But the JLA doesn't play on that level so that's a moot point. It's the Justice League, not the Authority or Stormwatch.

 

[darkninja7000]

Hercules is a god. He died and Zeus granted him immortality. But the Olympians can be killed, just as the Sentry killed Ares, who was nearly as strong as Hercules.

But the JLA doesn't play on that level so that's a moot point. It's the Justice League, not the Authority or Stormwatch.

Hercules is also an Olympian thereby being an immortal, and as true immortals, the Olympian gods do not age and are not susceptible to disease. Although they can be wounded in battle, they cannot die by any conventional means, and have a rapid healing rate. Hercules has a greater resistance to physical injury than any other Olympian god except for Zeus, and possibly Neptune and Pluto


Hercules is virtually tireless. His supernaturally enhanced musculature produces no fatigue poisons. He can even survive unprotected in the vacuum of space for a brief period of time. Only an injury of such magnititude that it incinerated him or dispersed a major portion of his bodily molecules could kill Hercules. In at least some such cases, Zeus or one of the other gods might still be able to resurrect him.>

now i didnt read the series when Ares was killed but Hercules is on a different level than his brother. Only Olympians more powerful or durable is Zeus,Neptune and Pluto.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Cool. I'll take your word for it.

JLA
This team was formed in the September 1996 Justice League: A Midsummer's Nightmare written by Mark Waid and Fabian Nicieza. The JLA series, by Grant Morrison, was a return to the "Big Seven," with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash (Wally West), Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner), Aquaman and J'onn J'onzz. New to the team were: Green Lantern Kyle Rayner
Tomorrow Woman

Aztek
Green Arrow Connor Hawke
Oracle
Plastic Man
Steel
Zauriel
Wonder Woman Hippolyta of Themyscira
Big Barda
Hourman
Jade
Antaeus
Jesse Quick
Dark Flash
Proof

I disagree. Superman has an edge in raw strength but Thor beats him on the basis Wonder Woman does: thousands of years of combat experience with foes on his level or greater.

I'll say it's CLOSE. But i give it to Superman because he's much more likely to take a fight to his advantage and end it quickly than Thor will. Thor gets into his berserker lust thing and will want to stand there and punch and punch punch all day. But i'll give, and say 50/50.

Absolutely not. Namor is much stronger than Aquaman and unless Namor becomes a real fish or they've tweaked Aquaman again (the real disadvantage for Marvel heroes is DC has retconned and changed their characters so many times, it's hard to keep up with what they can and cannot do), he's not vulnerable to his psi powers. So that one advantage doesn't help him in the slightest.

No he isn't. Aquaman is just as strong as Namor and that still puts him on the weak side against the other JLA members. And Yes Grant Morrison or Mark Waid i don't remember, made him fully use his telepathy. They even discussed it once that he doesn't know how to fine tune it like J'onn. So he just hammers people with it.

Maybe. But MM's weakness being as lame as fire puts him at a disadvantage against a guy powered by the sun who shoots heat beam.

Did away with that. He doesn't have that fire weakness anymore. He basically went through fire fear therapy with Scorch.

I guess. You underestimate Hercule's intelligence greatly, though. Like Thor and WW, he's got thousands of years of combat experience so going with Zauriel (a lame character) is okay but not in a walk.

You guys are thinking of Herc as you want him to be or as if you'd do him. Herc has never been a bright guy and all of his fights come out to... i'm just gonna hit you real real hard! Herc doesn't outsmart ANYBODY. And Zauriel isn't 1 of the warrior host of Angel's but he has that sonic cry that basically atomizes matter.

I thought he wasn't Ion anymore and when he was, when I was reading the book, he was more on Oa with the GLs than with the JLA.
You don't need a psi to take over a GL ring, just someone with stronger will and that is Captain America.

Nnnnnnnot quite. He was still Ion and serving on JLA for that time. And the thing about Ion though which i found funny is that all it REALLY meant as him being Ion was that he had no restrictions on the amounts of power he could use. Even as a regular GL he held a planet from exploding by sheer will. I think it was Rann? Don't remember. I mean the planet was exploding and he held it together. And if Batman doesn't have the willpower to operate a GL ring, Cap doesn't either.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Hercules is also an Olympian thereby being an immortal, and as true immortals, the Olympian gods do not age and are not susceptible to disease. Although they can be wounded in battle, they cannot die by any conventional means, and have a rapid healing rate. Hercules has a greater resistance to physical injury than any other Olympian god except for Zeus, and possibly Neptune and Pluto


Hercules is virtually tireless. His supernaturally enhanced musculature produces no fatigue poisons. He can even survive unprotected in the vacuum of space for a brief period of time. Only an injury of such magnititude that it incinerated him or dispersed a major portion of his bodily molecules could kill Hercules. In at least some such cases, Zeus or one of the other gods might still be able to resurrect him.>

now i didnt read the series when Ares was killed but Hercules is on a different level than his brother. Only Olympians more powerful or durable is Zeus,Neptune and Pluto.

No he's not. He's just in terms of strength. Have you even read Hercules in the past year? And you gave the answer on how Zauriel beats him. Sonic scream atomizes stuff. That's sufficient energetic possibility dear.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

JLA
This team was formed in the September 1996 Justice League: A Midsummer's Nightmare written by Mark Waid and Fabian Nicieza. The JLA series, by Grant Morrison, was a return to the "Big Seven," with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash (Wally West), Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner), Aquaman and J'onn J'onzz. New to the team were: Green Lantern Kyle Rayner
Tomorrow Woman

Aztek
Green Arrow Connor Hawke
Oracle
Plastic Man
Steel
Zauriel
Wonder Woman Hippolyta of Themyscira
Big Barda
Hourman
Jade
Antaeus
Jesse Quick
Dark Flash
Proof

Woman
Didn't I say I'll take your word for it. Take the "W" and walk away.
Though I'm now doubting they had a full time 20 member JLA cast.

No he isn't. Aquaman is just as strong as Namor and that still puts him on the weak side against the other JLA members. And Yes Grant Morrison or Mark Waid i don't remember, made him fully use his telepathy. They even discussed it once that he doesn't know how to fine tune it like J'onn. So he just hammers people with it.




Did away with that. He doesn't have that fire weakness anymore. He basically went through fire fear therapy with Scorch.

This is exactly what I'm talking about with DC and why they need gimmicks like whole universe reboots to beat Marvel. Two characters at least 40 yrs old a piece and they completely switch up what they can and can't do, almost at a whim. J'onnz just got beat because of his fire weakness in the Final Crisis.

You guys are thinking of Herc as you want him to be or as if you'd do him. Herc has never been a bright guy and all of his fights come out to... i'm just gonna hit you real real hard! Herc doesn't outsmart ANYBODY. And Zauriel isn't 1 of the warrior host of Angel's but he has that sonic cry that basically atomizes matter.

Nope. I ceded you the Zauriel victory but I'm talking about Herc as he was written by Greg Pak, who is a great and intelligent warrior who had to get by without his super strength and just his wits and ability.

Nnnnnnnot quite. He was still Ion and serving on JLA for that time. And the thing about Ion though which i found funny is that all it REALLY meant as him being Ion was that he had no restrictions on the amounts of power he could use. Even as a regular GL he held a planet from exploding by sheer will. I think it was Rann? Don't remember. I mean the planet was exploding and he held it together. And if Batman doesn't have the willpower to operate a GL ring, Cap doesn't either.

Batman just overpowered Hal Jordan, the greatest GL they say, in their first meeting in the current Justice League book. You don't have to control it, just take Jordan or whoever out of the fight.




The current Avengers hammer the shit out of the current JLA.

 

[tical]

GotDamn for the rest of us not-as-deep comic-book fans can we get a profile on some of these obscure characters outside of the ones everyones knows(supes,bats,MM,thor etc). shittt.....

Who/what is a sentry? Hercules? Namor?

Come on fam.

 

[darkninja7000]

No he's not. He's just in terms of strength. Have you even read Hercules in the past year? And you gave the answer on how Zauriel beats him. Sonic scream atomizes stuff. That's sufficient energetic possibility dear.

cmon ma.... you actin like they gonna stand face to face with HERC sayin "have at thee" and zauriel instantly atomizes him. thats like saying superman freezes hulk... hulk breaks free and pummels him into unconsciousness. there is gonna be a battle. you keep referring to hercs intelligence but he has a millenia of battle experience.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

cmon ma.... you actin like they gonna stand face to face with HERC sayin "have at thee" and zauriel instantly atomizes him. thats like saying superman freezes hulk... hulk breaks free and pummels him into unconsciousness. there is gonna be a battle. you keep referring to hercs intelligence but he has a millenia of battle experience.

Yep. He just hasn't been written that way until very recently.

 

[darkninja7000]

GotDamn for the rest of us not-as-deep comic-book fans can we get a profile on some of these obscure characters outside of the ones everyones knows(supes,bats,MM,thor etc). shittt.....

Who/what is a sentry? Hercules? Namor?

Come on fam.

Herc n Namor been around since the 60's They have appeared in countles Thor n Avengers issues throughout the 60's - present.

 

[darkninja7000]

Yep. He just hasn't been written that way until very recently.

people forget that Herc fought n beat Thor... Fought the Hulk to a standstill. and i totally agree with DC and their bullshit constantly editing their characters to make them almighty foh.

 

[assmaster1]

So you really think pre-crisis power level Superman can beat Thor Odinforce level? (basically reality powers that can bring forth or destroy just about anything)

Wonder Woman is not invulnerable hence the magic bracelets.
Cheetah has scratched her skin many times. Also a bullet can kill her.
Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers) is invulnerable.
And hell, Muhammed Ali went toe-to-toe with Supes.....that's just the writer's perogative.

GL - I said Scarlet Witch (altering reality based powers) or did you forget she changed the whole world and the majority of heroes in House of M?
You really think any of those lanterns are that powerful?
Then explain why if their rings are only limited by their imagination, how come not one lantern can imagine a construct stronger than Superman? (even after they did away with the yellow weakness)

No i wasn't. It was a team. JLA when Morrison took over had all those people on it.



No i wasn't, i said he was pretty much back to precrisis levels. And i don't care about who was on a team when. Thor doesn't out class superman in powers.


IF YOU'RE DOING THIS 1 ON 1.

Thor is not as strong as superman just on strength alone. Heat vision wouldn't hurt Thor but neither would lightning hurt superman. A god blast could probably hurt Superman but being that it's really just an energy blast it wouldn't do anymore more than some others. Superman takes this fight.

Ms Marvel is NOWHERE NEAR WONDER WOMAN'S INVULNERABILITY OR STRENGTH. You're seriously bugging. WW can go toe to toe with Superman, in high speed combat. Carol can't. Ms. Marvel possesses incredible superhuman strength and durability, can fly at roughly half the speed of sound, retains her Seventh Sense, and discharge explosive blasts of radiant energy, which she fires from her fingertips. She also demonstrates the ability to absorb other forms of energy, such as electricity, to further magnify her strength and energy projection, up to the force of an exploding nuclear weapon. When sufficiently augmented, she can withstand the pressure from a 92-ton weight, and strike with a similar level of force, although Hank Pym theorized that this likely was not her limit. Carol cannot absorb magical energy without consequence, though she aided Dr. Stephen Strange in the defeat of the mystic menace Sir Warren Traveler.

Namor's not a telepath and would be vulnerable to psionic attack from Aquaman, and it's the ONLY leg up i give to Aquaman. This is a pretty equalfight especially since they're basically the same character.

Vision doesn't stand a chance against MM. MM's strength level is on par with Superman. Visions is barely 75 tons. He can boost up to 100 tons but then he breaks down. You can't fuck with a shape changers density, that's kind of the whole point. MM in the end just rips Vision apart. The vision can't DO anything to MM either.

Sentry might take Orion after a long ass fight. But even then i'ts a 50/50 thing with me because Sentry's powers are still so vague.

Zauriel take hercules because he's just smarter. And he's got more powers than Herc. So fighting Herc in a hand to hand just wouldn't be smart. And plus superhuman demi gods aren't on the same level as Angels and if Zauriel was going of the kill he'd use his sonic scream to atomize Herc. Since it atomizes other Angels.

You have no answer for the Flash.

Pym and Oracle ... that wouldn' tbe a fight. She's handicapped.

Kyle Rainer was 1 of the most powerful GL's ever as Ion. Plus you can't just take over a GL's mind because the ring counters psionic attacks and mind control.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Woman
Didn't I say I'll take your word for it. Take the "W" and walk away.
Though I'm now doubting they had a full time 20 member JLA cast.

I just wanted to give proof just in case there was any doubt and declarations i wasn't making things up.

This is exactly what I'm talking about with DC and why they need gimmicks like whole universe reboots to beat Marvel. Two characters at least 40 yrs old a piece and they completely switch up what they can and can't do, almost at a whim. J'onnz just got beat because of his fire weakness in the Final Crisis.

I don't remember who it was, but i'm learning more towards Mark Waid. You gotta remember Mark Waid just did the Flash and like superjuiced Wally to godlike levels. Then DC if i remember right he said he could make any character relevant again. And so he took on Aquaman. He went and destroyed Atltantis and cut off Arthurs hand and killed his son. Gave him a beard and a new costume. Long crazy hair and crazy killer eyes. And gave him telepathy and had him starting to do feats of strength. And in reality it shouldn't have been an issue because if you think about it, him and Namor are the same character relatively. Why shouldn't they have almost the same powers?

Batman just overpowered Hal Jordan, the greatest GL they say, in their first meeting in the current Justice League book. You don't have to control it, just take Jordan or whoever out of the fight.

That was a NEW Hal Jordan and he wasn't fighting Bats. Stop it. Totally not the same thing dude.

The current Avengers hammer the shit out of the current JLA.

I'm not quite sure. ONLY because we don't know yet how powerful this WW and this Superman is. And plus they're way outnumbered. And plus this is not your father's attitude type superman either. This superman gives a lot of fucks less than the other 1 did. To me if you don't have an ultimate guy on your squad you're not taking down Superman. Darkseid came to take superman. Had him occupied the whole fight. There's not Darkseid level threat on Avengers current roster.