BGOL review .. BATMAN V SUPERMAN... (thoughts, summary, spoilers)

[fonzerrillii]

So i just saw an article that mentions Amanda Wallers voice over from the suicide squad trailer and in that voiceover she says... 'Maybe Superman was some kind of beacon that let them creep back from the shadows.'"

So this next movie definitely takes place after the events of Batman v Superman.... So now I would hope Suicide Squad that they will fill in some gaps.. Since they are reshooting shit.

1. If Batman fights joker, I need them to explain why he doesn't kill him. Definitely if it's a flashback ... And if he supposedly killed Robin

2. Why didn't Lex have files on the metahumans from this movie?

 

[chrislee]

Why didn't he fuckkng say a line about this in the movie... I damn line or flashback or dream.. Something. We just had 3 god damn batman movies that didn't have a robin in them and then you just randomly drop robin in this one.... Do we even know which Robin??? Nope.... Do we know when he died? Nope.... Do we know that this is why Batman is now Murdery???... Nope.... It's create your own robin day kids? Choose the one you like? The shit made no sense. I mean... This shit looked like a Robin Statute that Joker spray painted?

The first time I saw it, I thought... Well this was the costume that robin wore and Joker spray painted it on his dead body, but shit looks like a fucking concrete statute..... Why would he spray paint a fucking statute.. I know that Batman meets the joker in suicide squad, so is Suicide Squad supposed to be before Batman v Superman... Because I just don't see Murdery batman letting Joker walk and we all know from the trailers that the joker is alive and kicking. ????

You don't need a fucking video explaining how Robins death shaped Batman if your movie did a better job of explaining That robins death shaped Batman.

Side note... If suicide squad is either slightly before or after Batman v Superman.... Then they better explain why lex didnt have files on the metahumans from that movie.

Damnit now I'm fucking angry all over again. Fuck this movie so much.

It's kinda irrelevant to the story. It's not a Batman story. It can be explained in his solo film or even Joker can reference it in SS.

 

[chrislee]

Watched a few videos while at work I'm going to post when I get home. One video is about is DC will cast Alexander Luthor's father after the backlash of Eisenberg portrayal. They went on to say that Eisenberg auditioned for Jimmy Olson and the Riddler. They offered him the role of Luthor and he said he was going to portray him as the way he was going to protray Riddler and Olson.

Will WB bring Lex Luthor Sr. into future movies?

 

[chrislee]

Ben Affleck has written a Batman solo film

 

[chrislee]

KEVIN SMITH'S REVIEW OF DAWN OF JUSTICE!

 

[chrislee]

10 COOLEST Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Easter Eggs, References and Trivia



5 Reasons Batman v Superman Was Great

 

[raze]

Why didn't he fuckkng say a line about this in the movie... I damn line or flashback or dream.. Something. We just had 3 god damn batman movies that didn't have a robin in them and then you just randomly drop robin in this one.... Do we even know which Robin??? Nope.... Do we know when he died? Nope.... Do we know that this is why Batman is now Murdery???... Nope.... It's create your own robin day kids? Choose the one you like? The shit made no sense. I mean... This shit looked like a Robin Statute that Joker spray painted?

The first time I saw it, I thought... Well this was the costume that robin wore and Joker spray painted it on his dead body, but shit looks like a fucking concrete statute..... Why would he spray paint a fucking statute.. I know that Batman meets the joker in suicide squad, so is Suicide Squad supposed to be before Batman v Superman... Because I just don't see Murdery batman letting Joker walk and we all know from the trailers that the joker is alive and kicking. ????

You don't need a fucking video explaining how Robins death shaped Batman if your movie did a better job of explaining That robins death shaped Batman.

Side note... If suicide squad is either slightly before or after Batman v Superman.... Then they better explain why lex didnt have files on the metahumans from that movie.

Damnit now I'm fucking angry all over again. Fuck this movie so much.

This is why the motivations of the characters in Batman vs. Superman are mostly muddled or nonsensical. Snyder is a purely visual storyteller. He can dream up fantastic images but has a difficult time connecting other story elements in any meaningful way (character development, dialogue, motivation).

 

[Winslow Wong]

Why didn't he fuckkng say a line about this in the movie... I damn line or flashback or dream.. Something. We just had 3 god damn batman movies that didn't have a robin in them and then you just randomly drop robin in this one.... Do we even know which Robin??? Nope.... Do we know when he died? Nope.... Do we know that this is why Batman is now Murdery???... Nope.... It's create your own robin day kids? Choose the one you like? The shit made no sense. I mean... This shit looked like a Robin Statute that Joker spray painted?

The first time I saw it, I thought... Well this was the costume that robin wore and Joker spray painted it on his dead body, but shit looks like a fucking concrete statute..... Why would he spray paint a fucking statute.. I know that Batman meets the joker in suicide squad, so is Suicide Squad supposed to be before Batman v Superman... Because I just don't see Murdery batman letting Joker walk and we all know from the trailers that the joker is alive and kicking. ????

You don't need a fucking video explaining how Robins death shaped Batman if your movie did a better job of explaining That robins death shaped Batman.

Side note... If suicide squad is either slightly before or after Batman v Superman.... Then they better explain why lex didnt have files on the metahumans from that movie.

Damnit now I'm fucking angry all over again. Fuck this movie so much.

He is doing what I hate - well everyone already knows the backstory or have read the comics so I just have to throw in an Easter Egg - except of course showing Batman's parents death for the umpteen time - and young Bruce Wayne and the bats again...ugh

regards to Batman - you could have had Alfred say into his earpiece during a fight - you aren't to blame for his (Robin's)death, Bruce, its the clown's fault and you put him away for good.
then Bruce can say, I didn't do what I should have done to the clown the first time. I am not making that mistake again with the alien.

All it would have taken - a fucking single line - instead of just looking at the Robin costume. Ugh -

Hallucinations and dreams play such a big role in this world - gypsy must make a fortune here - So tell me more about your dream - oh and put the money in the jar. - ugh

 

[fonzerrillii]

It's kinda irrelevant to the story. It's not a Batman story. It can be explained in his solo film or even Joker can reference it in SS.

I think it would be relevant if this was what caused Batman to start murdering and distrusting criminals... It would give some context. Maybe I need to watch this a third time. I'm missing something.

 

[fonzerrillii]

He is doing what I hate - well everyone already knows the backstory or have read the comics so I just have to throw in an Easter Egg - except of course showing Batman's parents death for the umpteen time - and young Bruce Wayne and the bats again...ugh

regards to Batman - you could have had Alfred say into his earpiece during a fight - you aren't to blame for his (Robin's)death, Bruce, its the clown's fault and you put him away for good.
then Bruce can say, I didn't do what I should have done to the clown the first time. I am not making that mistake again with the alien.

All it would have taken - a fucking single line - instead of just looking at the Robin costume. Ugh -

Hallucinations and dreams play such a big role in this world - gypsy must make a fortune here - So tell me more about your dream - oh and put the money in the jar. - ugh

Exactly.... Directors take liberties with established characters every time. You can't go into a super hero movie knowing that the same rules exist. The previous Dark Knight movies were the best example of this. They are also most people's last view of a live action batman.... You can't just jump into a new movie with a new batman and just accept that people are going to know every single Easter egg.. Plus can you call something really an Easter egg if you say it is what shaped a character.

 

[playahaitian]

​

 

[chrislee]

I think it would be relevant if this was what caused Batman to start murdering and distrusting criminals... It would give some context. Maybe I need to watch this a third time. I'm missing something.

I'll rather they go into it during the solo film. Kinda like Alfred eluding to his downfall when he talked about the rage that turns good men cruel. 20 years in Gotham and how many guys are left? How many stayed that way?

 

[fonzerrillii]

I'll rather they go into it during the solo film. Kinda like Alfred eluding to his downfall when he talked about the rage that turns good men cruel. 20 years in Gotham and how many guys are left? How many stayed that way?

The biggest problem that I have on this is that I would be fine... if they had the Solo Batman film on deck to come out next year or any year for that matter. That way I could say... Oh yeah. They are going to explain this down the line. Right now you can't really say that, because DC doesn't have a clear plan. They scheduled all of these movies at the same time and didn't want to schedule a Batman, because they didn't know how people would react to Ben Affleck as Batman (i.e. George Clooney)... But then Shocker people loved Batman and now they have to scramble to fit Batman in a movie before Ben Affleck turns 50 years old.

But look at the whole Codex thing from Man of steel and the fact that it is inside him..... There was zero mention of that in this movie.

 

[Drayonis]

Again. I don't think the movie sucked. I didn't like Luther but that Batman was a beast. We don't need a MCU clone where everything is "light hearted" and we get corny jokes about "language" Ala the last Avengers movie. I like the adult direction this Universe is taking to contrast Marvel's. We already have enough corny jokes on the Flash tv show and the totally UNWATCHABLE Arrow/Felicity hour. I stopped watching Arrow because of the corny departure from the first season.

I think you guys have gotten a heavy diet of Marvel films and you are starting to assume that's what every hero movie should look like.

Really it's the film division of the company. Whoever's in charge needs to go. They really need people from the comics side to take the helm or at least be in the fuckin decision making process. The fuckin bean counters are killing the brand.

These muthafuckas need to just take their time and develop a cinematic universe instead of trying to keep up with Marvel. They allready second guessing SUICIDE SQUAD. This shit they just released was pushed back a year. And now they goin forward with JLA in a couple weeks with fuckhead Snyder at the helm. I guarantee he finds a way to fuck up DARKSEID.

 

[Drayonis]

You are really stuck on an explanation for Batman. Like everything hinges on the answers you want.

The biggest problem that I have on this is that I would be fine... if they had the Solo Batman film on deck to come out next year or any year for that matter. That way I could say... Oh yeah. They are going to explain this down the line. Right now you can't really say that, because DC doesn't have a clear plan. They scheduled all of these movies at the same time and didn't want to schedule a Batman, because they didn't know how people would react to Ben Affleck as Batman (i.e. George Clooney)... But then Shocker people loved Batman and now they have to scramble to fit Batman in a movie before Ben Affleck turns 50 years old.

But look at the whole Codex thing from Man of steel and the fact that it is inside him..... There was zero mention of that in this movie.

 

[DAHITMAN]

Marvel's Netflix Series DareDevil with the Punisher and Captain America Winter Soldier is on point....Take notes DC....

 

[Drayonis]

Why can't they be setting this up for a later story? Why does it all have to be given to you right now? You know like "foreshadowing". They do that in comics all the time. How many stories tell you everything all at once? We didn't know Wolverine's story for 30 years or so and that didn't stop us from liking him as a character. You keep saying "why didn't they tell us what happened"...did they have to? It wasn't a solo Batman movie.

Why didn't he fuckkng say a line about this in the movie... I damn line or flashback or dream.. Something. We just had 3 god damn batman movies that didn't have a robin in them and then you just randomly drop robin in this one.... Do we even know which Robin??? Nope.... Do we know when he died? Nope.... Do we know that this is why Batman is now Murdery???... Nope.... It's create your own robin day kids? Choose the one you like? The shit made no sense. I mean... This shit looked like a Robin Statute that Joker spray painted?

The first time I saw it, I thought... Well this was the costume that robin wore and Joker spray painted it on his dead body, but shit looks like a fucking concrete statute..... Why would he spray paint a fucking statute.. I know that Batman meets the joker in suicide squad, so is Suicide Squad supposed to be before Batman v Superman... Because I just don't see Murdery batman letting Joker walk and we all know from the trailers that the joker is alive and kicking. ????

You don't need a fucking video explaining how Robins death shaped Batman if your movie did a better job of explaining That robins death shaped Batman.

Side note... If suicide squad is either slightly before or after Batman v Superman.... Then they better explain why lex didnt have files on the metahumans from that movie.

Damnit now I'm fucking angry all over again. Fuck this movie so much.

 

[fonzerrillii]

You are really stuck on an explanation for Batman. Like everything hinges on the answers you want.

I'm stating my opinion on it and yes I am.... Name me another non-sequel superhero movie other then Watchmen.... that didn't state the motivations of the character in it.

 

[fonzerrillii]

Why can't they be setting this up for a later story? Why does it all have to be given to you right now? You know like "foreshadowing". They do that in comics all the time. How many stories tell you everything all at once? We didn't know Wolverine's story for 30 years or so and that didn't stop us from liking him as a character. You keep saying "why didn't they tell us what happened"...did they have to? It wasn't a solo Batman movie.

Again... Because who is to say they are going to answer any of this stuff. WB/DC films has a horrible track record with explaining their shit. Does anyone else remember that there was supposed to be Man of Steel 2 before they just decided to make Batman v. Superman instead. Man of Steel was made in a way to make you feel that it was the first movie of a sequel. So I accepted the fact that Clark Kent, who didn't go to college in this world... had zero experience writing and didn't wear glasses the entire movie...Could suddenly be working for the Daily Planet as a reporter, because I felt that clearly the second movie would explore who Clark was and how he was able to get this job.... I'll just roll with it. BUT NOPE..... Now Clark is Dead. What was the point of him even working for the Daily Planet then? To please the fans... So there would be an Easter Egg for them. And again... I loved that movie.

I'm bitching because... I know that WB is going to do what WB does and fuck up their movie shit. I just don't see Shazam happening, because something is going to have to be bumped because they have to make a Batman movie now.

Also let's say... What if every single one of my problems with this movie are answered in the 3hr cut? Then people defending this movie would have to admit that they defended and paid for an incomplete movie.

I'm pissed off that the movie that I've been waiting for my entire life is likely coming out in July and last weekend I paid for the "The Life of Pablo" Jeezus Clothing line version of the movie.

 

[fonzerrillii]

But for now... I'm going to stop bitching about this film.. Unless another bombshell drops.

I still would like to discuss people's thoughts on the future of DC films after this movie and the direction that they feel that it should take.

 

[Amajorfucup]

I'm stating my opinion on it and yes I am.... Name me another non-sequel superhero movie other then Watchmen.... that didn't state the motivations of the character in it.

I just dont get how people- especially so called comic fans- continue to say they didnt explain Batmans motivations.. Its the most absurd criticism of this film.

 

[ViCiouS]

I just dont get how people- especially so called comic fans- continue to say they didnt explain Batmans motivations.. Its the most absurd criticism of this film.

dude - if you don't understand why the writing of EVERY character in the movie was incomplete...
as I said before if this was a novel it would be unreadable with characters of penny dreadful depth

If you think Batman was properly written, I'm happy you are satisfied

 

[Amajorfucup]

dude - if you don't understand why the writing of EVERY character in the movie was incomplete...
as I said before if this was a novel it would be unreadable with characters of penny dreadful depth

If you think Batman was properly written, I'm happy you are satisfied

Bro, you have to respond to what i actually said, and not put spin sauce on it.

I said nothing about complete. Nothing. Im saying to pretend as if the characters motivations wernt explained is horse shit. Incompletion is a valid criticism... Saying there was no explanation provided for motivations is not.

And what do you mean if this was a novel? Since when do we compare 2 hour films with 500 page novels?

 

[ViCiouS]

Bro, you have to respond to what i actually said, and not put spin sauce on it.

I said nothing about complete. Nothing. Im saying to pretend as if the characters motivations wernt explained is horse shit. Incompletion is a valid criticism... Saying there was no explanation provided for motivations is not.

And what do you mean if this was a novel? Since when do we compare 2 hour films with 500 page novels?

if the explanation is incomplete - how can you consider it explained?
we were given a small fraction of motive and rational but where did the rest come from?

Movies are compared to novels all of the time... most films lack the depth and internal dialogue, but the goal is still to present a complete story. No matter film or book - at the end you shouldn't be baffled how the characters got to the end of their arcs.

 

[Amajorfucup]

if the explanation is incomplete - how can you consider it explained?
we were given a small fraction of motive and rational but where did the rest come from?

Movie's are compared to novels all of the time... most films lack the depth and internal dialogue, but the goal is still to present a complete story. No matter film or book - at the end you shouldn't be baffled how the characters got to the end of their arcs.

Because it isnt an either or scenario for any reasonable person. Its not as if it has to be either completely explained OR not explained.. Theres room for nuance there. And i think its bullshit to watch the film and say there was no explanation. There was absolutely more than a "small fraction" there.. as i articulated on the prior page or so.

And novels are not compared to films as far as equal expectations of detail and minutia.

 

[Drayonis]

I just dont get how people- especially so called comic fans- continue to say they didnt explain Batmans motivations.. Its the most absurd criticism of this film.

]You didn't explain it to me so now it's ruined? People are really just projecting. fonzerrelli himself said he'd "waited his whole life for this movie" so his expectations where higher than Jesus' forehead. They wanted a certain kind of movie walking into the theatre where I walked in a blank slate. I already knew DC was trying to play catch up so I just wanted to have fun and watch Batman kick some ass. Batman evolved for whatever reason (something to do with Robin's death) and I'm not mad they didn't explain it to me. Why should they? This is their Batman. I don't need bread crumbs handed to me to explain (SOMETHING HAPPENED)....it didn't break this film but they are acting like all is lost.

 

[fonzerrillii]

I just dont get how people- especially so called comic fans- continue to say they didnt explain Batmans motivations.. Its the most absurd criticism of this film.

Because every movie has a slightly different version of Batman in it and I don't want to leave a movie trying to figure out if this Batman was a continuation of what I already know or is this a different take on the Character. And the first time I watched it none of that was clear....

Who wants to leave a movie saying... I think I know what happened.. I didn't get some of it, but I'm sure after my second viewing all of this will make perfect sense? Like I said.. I had no idea going in... that this was a grizzled Batman that had given up was tired and was now murdering people... and the first time I left.. I only knew that Batman was killing people.... Why exactly..
The second I did... but that was only because of everyone's details about the movie on this board and reading spoilers.


I completely missed the part about this being the Lex that we know's .. Son.. Since they were both called Lex and Lex is typically short for Alexander. I just assumed it was Lex and I never really paid attention to Actual lex Luthor's fathers name.. Like I've never paid attention to the name of Batman's mom until this movie. I would have had a completely different view of Lex in this movie if I knew that one simple thing.

Damn it.. I told myself that I would stop bitching. Man I can't believe that I'm this emotionally attached to this movie.

 

[Drayonis]

if the explanation is incomplete - how can you consider it explained?
we were given a small fraction of motive and rational but where did the rest come from?

Okay, here's what I don't understand. Bruce Wayne stops in front of the Robin outfit and looks distraught. I SEE IT and it gives me explanation. YOU SEE IT and you say "THAT WASN'T ENOUGH"...they NEED TO SPELL IT OUT FOR ME. That wasn't enough for you? That broke the film because they didn't verbally say "Robin was killed by the hands of the Joker and that changed him"? That wasn't enough??? Why can't what happened be a mystery to solved at a later date? I think that ADDED to the movie. It causes us to want more. To wonder what exactly happened. Why does it need to be explained to you right there and right then? I'm not understanding you dudes. Movies leave mysteries all the time...things that are left out on purpose. But SOMEHOW this movie fails because they didn't tell you why?

 

[fonzerrillii]

Because it isnt an either or scenario for any reasonable person. Its not as if it has to be either completely explained OR not explained.. Theres room for nuance there. And i think its bullshit to watch the film and say there was no explanation. There was absolutely more than a "small fraction" there.. as i articulated on the prior page or so.

And novels are not compared to films as far as equal expectations of detail and minutia.

I think that none of us would be arguing the exact same thing if the nuances within the movie were better explained. I would get it if it was just me, but alot of people are saying the exact same thing and questioning the exact same gaps in logic. It is an ADMITTED incomplete movie.

 

[Drayonis]

Because every movie has a slightly different version of Batman in it and I don't want to leave a movie trying to figure out if this Batman was a continuation of what I already know or is this a different take on the Character. And the first time I watched it none of that was clear....

Let me help you out with what you're struggling with. THIS WAS A DIFFERENT TAKE ON BATMAN.

 

[ViCiouS]

Because it isnt an either or scenario for any reasonable person. Its not as if it has to be either completely explained OR not explained.. Theres room for nuance there. And i think its bullshit to watch the film and say there was no explanation. There was absolutely more than a "small fraction" there.. as i articulated on the prior page or so.

And novels are not compared to films as far as equal expectations of detail and minutia.

as I stated before:
most films lack the depth and internal dialogue, but the goal is still to present a complete story

you are reaching- there is no nuance... . Nuance is in how you present or portray it- but a story is written well enough to convey a clear picture of events and motive or it isn't. If it was music it would be like bebop jazz, nuance allows you to improvise and add flourish go on a tangent even but its always around the core melody


for example- borrowed:
Having parents with the same name doesn’t negate ANYTHING presented about why Batman hates Superman. It’s not because he has parental issues, or that he doesn’t think Superman has parents for some reason. It’s because Superman has thus far been a hugely dangerous alien who causes more harm than good and holds the potential to destroy the world on a whim. Nothing about him having a mother named Martha changes that.

but the above was enough to stop the Bat, a character we see in this movie as being obsessed from killing supes because he has an opportunity to save a lady with the same name as his mother. There is nothing in the story that establishes he would break off anything for sentiment

 

[fonzerrillii]

Okay, here's what I don't understand. Bruce Wayne stops in front of the Robin outfit and looks distraught. I SEE IT and it gives me explanation. YOU SEE IT and you say "THAT WASN'T ENOUGH"...they NEED TO SPELL IT OUT FOR ME. That wasn't enough for you? That broke the film because they didn't verbally say "Robin was killed by the hands of the Joker and that changed him"? That wasn't enough??? Why can't what happened be a mystery to solved at a later date? I think that ADDED to the movie. It causes us to want more. To wonder what exactly happened. Why does it need to be explained to you right there and right then? I'm not understanding you dudes. Movies leave mysteries all the time...things that are left out on purpose. But SOMEHOW this movie fails because they didn't tell you why?

I saw it and I was like... Ok Robin was killed by the Joker in this Universe and I moved on.

Because they never mentioned this again...

Next time I see Batman in character... He is running down people and using cars like weapons...


Robin has died in plenty of other stories throughout the history of Batman..... did he immediately start killing people nope. He became Brutal against the Joker and almost lost it a bunch of times, but he stuck to his code.

How would anyone know from this movie... the type of batman presented to us.

Hell how would anyone know going in ... the Type of Superman that we would see. They changed so much about the character for the previous movie that there was no way to really tell.

 

[ViCiouS]

Okay, here's what I don't understand. Bruce Wayne stops in front of the Robin outfit and looks distraught. I SEE IT and it gives me explanation. YOU SEE IT and you say "THAT WASN'T ENOUGH"...they NEED TO SPELL IT OUT FOR ME. That wasn't enough for you? That broke the film because they didn't verbally say "Robin was killed by the hands of the Joker and that changed him"? That wasn't enough??? Why can't what happened be a mystery to solved at a later date? I think that ADDED to the movie. It causes us to want more. To wonder what exactly happened. Why does it need to be explained to you right there and right then? I'm not understanding you dudes. Movies leave mysteries all the time...things that are left out on purpose. But SOMEHOW this movie fails because they didn't tell you why?

here is the breach in your logic:
core myth Robin is killed by Joker - Batman doesn't really change over all
so in this myth why would Robin being killed by Joker automatically be the thing that changes Bats to a killer? Is it the event and an accumulation of other things or
maybe even... Batman and Robin was always lethal in this myth?

If these were unknown characters on a TV series that hole is ok - but for established myths on film you have to build a new framework to tell the story.

 

[fonzerrillii]

Let me help you out with what you're struggling with. THIS WAS A DIFFERENT TAKE ON BATMAN.

Duh... Look I hated the movie. You obviously love it. So what. I'm sure that there are people that love the fuck out of Green Lantern and there is nothing wrong with it.

But nothing is going to change my mind on this one...

 

[fonzerrillii]

here is the breach in your logic:
core myth Robin is killed by Joker - Batman doesn't really change over all
so in this myth why would Robin being killed by Joker automatically be the thing that changes Bats to a killer? Is it the event and an accumulation of other things or
maybe even... Batman and Robin was always lethal in this myth?

If these were unknown characters on a TV series that hole is ok - but for established myths on film you have to build a new framework to tell the story.

Man Vicious to be honest.. I don't even know why the two of us are even trying.

It's like people complete forgot what makes a movie... an actual movie and not just a bunch of scenes.