BGOL review .. BATMAN V SUPERMAN... (thoughts, summary, spoilers)
- Thread starter stretchwallz
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WowDamn they said Ben was like bat trump
Damn they said Ben was like bat trump
And he and Ben are boys.Damn they straight RIPPED that shit and Snyder.
I'm pretty sure Kevin called Ben and told him blunt truth before that interview we saw where Ben was looking at the floor for the whole thing
True to my word I saw the movie opening weekend despite hating the doomsday reveal and all the footage they crammed in the trailer.
BEFORE went in 1. I hoped the trailers did not give too much away 2. after recently seeing the awesome dialogue between the punisher and daredevil, that the psychological differences between Sup's and bats would be thoroughly hashed out and given a good amount of screen time 3. They would not make superman be a b*tch or weak since I really liked the man of steel 4. They would not cram too many plots into the movie. 5. They would introduce the members of the Justice League and not let it look cheap.
HOLY F*CK they gave me n.o.t.h.i.n.g. I am a comic book fan. Not a person who casually reads or goes to comic book movies just for the "action". On a scale of 1-10 this gets a 3. My reasons:
1. Batman kills. Wtf. If you liked it. Fine. The philosophical theme that - if they used it would have made senses for sups and bats to be at odds over was ignored. Batman: the killing vigilante vs sups: who does not believe in taking life after zod. A TOTALLY wasted plot point. this batman breaks away from the code that makes his brand of justice epic.
2. The horribly lazy and retarded introduction of the JLA. Wtf was that? I know dc said they don't want to be like marvel and it shows. I was not excited about any if the "videotape" footage, in the email, viewed by Diana price.
Who the f*ck cared about an Ant-man, the Guardians of the Galaxy or an iron man until Marvel developed and MADE YOU care? DC gave zero f's about the plot and growing the audience's interest in the new characters. Besides that, and being rushed, Cyborgs mystery scienct theater intro was a cheap visual debacle.
3. The damn trailers spoiled the movie for me. Seriously. It got so bad that the action sequences where batman was fighting the guys at the warehouse were not in like the first 2 hours. I started wondering where that scene was cuz I had seen everything else. Wonder woman's entrance - blown. Doomsday reveal - blown. Clark meeting Bruce for the first time - blown. Batman's (one and only) fight scene with criminals - blown. I just watched to see what was in the trailers. There were literally no surprises - except one…
4. The death of superman. Are you serious right now????? (in my best Kanye). Forget the fact that superman only had one movie and had to still gain emotional traction with audiences, forget you tried to stuff the doomsday, dark knight plots and the introduction of wonder woman and the justice league into ONE F*CKING MOVIE. You compound it by killing superman?.!?!?! I was done. Score went from a 6.5 to a 3 on the strength (or weekness) of that alone.
DC mortally crippled the brand. There is nothing to ever be worried for with Superman now cuz the death card - which took 50 years to get to - happened within the span of two movies. Wtf man?!? They would have had major comic capital if after the 2nd JLA movie or the 3 superman stand alone they did that and the ENTIRE DC universe they populated mourned. This is mind-blowingly stupid this early.
5. I get that you don't want to follow in marvels footsteps but if you gonna make your own tracks lead the audience somewhere. The wtf's I heard as there were no ending credit scenes after that dreary mess was hilarious. 5b. I mentioned this earlier but daredevil spoiled me. That punisher/dd roof scene was straight out of a comic book. No fighting no action just a psychological expose on the minds of two characters. It was brilliant. That debate "could have" redeemed "some" of the other things I mentioned. 5c. This movie was supposed to have come out last july. They sat on this all this time and STILL produced this garbage. 5d. Why does lex know about the damn motherbox?!?! I swear this should have been epic but because it had the resources, the time, 2/3rds of a year on a shelf with no one saying "we have a problem here" kills this movie. Should have gave up man of steel to send a solo bats movie. Got damn I wanted to like this.
BEFORE went in 1. I hoped the trailers did not give too much away 2. after recently seeing the awesome dialogue between the punisher and daredevil, that the psychological differences between Sup's and bats would be thoroughly hashed out and given a good amount of screen time 3. They would not make superman be a b*tch or weak since I really liked the man of steel 4. They would not cram too many plots into the movie. 5. They would introduce the members of the Justice League and not let it look cheap.
HOLY F*CK they gave me n.o.t.h.i.n.g. I am a comic book fan. Not a person who casually reads or goes to comic book movies just for the "action". On a scale of 1-10 this gets a 3. My reasons:
1. Batman kills. Wtf. If you liked it. Fine. The philosophical theme that - if they used it would have made senses for sups and bats to be at odds over was ignored. Batman: the killing vigilante vs sups: who does not believe in taking life after zod. A TOTALLY wasted plot point. this batman breaks away from the code that makes his brand of justice epic.
2. The horribly lazy and retarded introduction of the JLA. Wtf was that? I know dc said they don't want to be like marvel and it shows. I was not excited about any if the "videotape" footage, in the email, viewed by Diana price.
Who the f*ck cared about an Ant-man, the Guardians of the Galaxy or an iron man until Marvel developed and MADE YOU care? DC gave zero f's about the plot and growing the audience's interest in the new characters. Besides that, and being rushed, Cyborgs mystery scienct theater intro was a cheap visual debacle.
3. The damn trailers spoiled the movie for me. Seriously. It got so bad that the action sequences where batman was fighting the guys at the warehouse were not in like the first 2 hours. I started wondering where that scene was cuz I had seen everything else. Wonder woman's entrance - blown. Doomsday reveal - blown. Clark meeting Bruce for the first time - blown. Batman's (one and only) fight scene with criminals - blown. I just watched to see what was in the trailers. There were literally no surprises - except one…
4. The death of superman. Are you serious right now????? (in my best Kanye). Forget the fact that superman only had one movie and had to still gain emotional traction with audiences, forget you tried to stuff the doomsday, dark knight plots and the introduction of wonder woman and the justice league into ONE F*CKING MOVIE. You compound it by killing superman?.!?!?! I was done. Score went from a 6.5 to a 3 on the strength (or weekness) of that alone.
DC mortally crippled the brand. There is nothing to ever be worried for with Superman now cuz the death card - which took 50 years to get to - happened within the span of two movies. Wtf man?!? They would have had major comic capital if after the 2nd JLA movie or the 3 superman stand alone they did that and the ENTIRE DC universe they populated mourned. This is mind-blowingly stupid this early.
5. I get that you don't want to follow in marvels footsteps but if you gonna make your own tracks lead the audience somewhere. The wtf's I heard as there were no ending credit scenes after that dreary mess was hilarious. 5b. I mentioned this earlier but daredevil spoiled me. That punisher/dd roof scene was straight out of a comic book. No fighting no action just a psychological expose on the minds of two characters. It was brilliant. That debate "could have" redeemed "some" of the other things I mentioned. 5c. This movie was supposed to have come out last july. They sat on this all this time and STILL produced this garbage. 5d. Why does lex know about the damn motherbox?!?! I swear this should have been epic but because it had the resources, the time, 2/3rds of a year on a shelf with no one saying "we have a problem here" kills this movie. Should have gave up man of steel to send a solo bats movie. Got damn I wanted to like this.
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So Batman is NEVER allowed to evolve (or in this case DEvolve)??? He's supposed to stay staunch and reasonable forever? This isn't 1950's. I think the character progression from a trust worthy protector of life into a shattered punisher type shows progression as well as tragedy.
They problem I have is that too many of you guys are stuck on tropes you grew up with. You want Superman to be smiling Superman, Batman to be the dark avenger that never kills even though the amount of fire power being thrown at him can level a mountain. Unbreakable and unwavering. Grow up. Let the characters be damaged..allow them to shift and maybe come back to where they were.
*and guess what? Each one of you fools will be there on the front row, pop corn in hand for The Justice League movie, forgetting totally all the rants you made 2 years earlier for this film.
The aspect of that criticism i find mostly problematic is that it typically comes from self professed comic heads. And they seemingly willfully ignore who and where Batman is in this current representation. Out of all the issues brought forth about the film, i find that one the least valid. Especially when you consider that the one thing the movie does a good job of explaining is just how battered, jaded, and completely wrecked Batman currently is.
not if Goyer writes and Snyder directs it... I'll wait
characters need to grow and evolve - but in this movie there is no rational for why he is the way he currently is... why is he different from his core myth? Superman's sacrifice and dying is going to make a kinder less lethal Bat? I doubt it.
IMO the best portrayals of Batman have been as an highly disciplined detective and borderline victim of ocd -to - a troubled vengeful and methodical genius.
Any well written version of him as a more damaged person shows why...
If they told this story like this AFTER Batman and Wonder Woman movies established the current characters... show Lex communicating with Steppenwolf at key points in the movie - and this might have been hailed as one of the best ever...
Batman in BvS is not a vengeful agent that uses fear as a tool - this Bat is a terrorist
If you cross his path it is pretty much an automatic death sentence - if he doesn't kill you, other criminals will because he branded you.
If you are going to present such a radically different character from the core myth- please tell me why-
if Sherlock Holmes is going to be emotional, happy go lucky bloke or solve mysteries serendipitously - please give me a reason for the change
Well first off, you're being dramatic as fuck labeling the guy a terrorist. He isn't that by any reasonable definition. He hunts the depraved and criminal specifically and with purpose.
Secondly, his reasoning was clearly explained. You either ignored it or refused to accept it as adequate. And that's your choice. But to say it wasn't present just isn't true.
you are being myopic
the movie spelled out his methods and the consequences for branded criminals and showed Bats had full knowledge but continued to use the same methods...
look at the psychology of it - Bat catches you and either cripples or kills you and if you are lucky enough to only be branded you are then slaughtered in jail
as for his rational - there is nothing in the movie showing me why he is different from the core myth - he suffered the same trauma had the same support system - so where when how did the left turn to lethality come in?
I'm not sure how myopia plays a part in my assertion that his characters motives and motivations were articulated successfully.
Has nothing to do with what you're saying above.
I'm saying it was well communicated that he is a grizzled, beaten, jaded old man that suffers from depression, guilt, regret, and rage issues. I'm saying that the brutal loss of Robin changed him. I'm saying he questions the purpose of his past methods of being lenient on criminals and is thus far less forgiving.
This was all painfully obvious watching the film.
Batman choosing to kill bad guys when compromised is the least appalling aspect of the film. Contrarily I think it's a positive, from a narrative perspective.
I'd like to see how he came to bend his cardinal rule, it must have to do with The Joker and Robin.
Batman and Affleck were the strong points of this joint no problems there.
I'd like to see how he came to bend his cardinal rule, it must have to do with The Joker and Robin.
Batman and Affleck were the strong points of this joint no problems there.
just to be clear here I'm not arguing there is a right and wrong here - just a creative debate
I'm saying you are looking at it in a very limited way if you can't see the terror campaign in this movie
They showed a tired etc... Batman, but not why - his core myth is a damaged orphan that grew up to be an obsessed vigilante - it goes against the core myth and psychology of Batman to have the character become murderous - as it currently is he more likely would become a hermit after murdering Joker and a few others than fall into the pattern in BvS...
But I would love to see a story that logically developed Batman around from core myth to being no holds barred lethal - with a real on going mission. That is a story I would camp out to see on film AND buy the book
Understood. But I see the terror campaign. Just think it's different from being a terrorist. Two distinctions there.
And I agree that I would enjoy an entire story dedicated to that premise. But in this context I thought it was well explained as allowed in the provided timeframe.
Also- as it pertains to his core mythology- I thought the change reflected a real perspective of how life, age, loss, and guilt can change us fundamentally over the course of our life. And how ones ideals can be altered through different stages of life and adulthood. I loved that shit personally.
I went in expecting what I got. The reason I did not initially like the Watchmen was because my expectations were different. After repeated viewings I grew to love the flick. As Snyder said, he was continuing some of the themes explored in Watchmen. Some critics lambasted him for that saying that the Watchmen is not Superman/Batman. My answer... Does it matter? I say it doesn't. I say what matters is the content at hand and not whether someone has a different take on a fictional work. I see it as a take on what it would actually be like if these characters existed in this world as we know it. Batman would have most likely killed many times over. It is possible in the comics but we have to be real. There would be religious worship of Superman. We already have people who believe other people (alive and dead) are deities.
I have listened and read some of the reviews and one of the main problem is that characterizations. I realize that there is this religious attachment to the characters and that people's rose colored glasses are on which limits them to seeing a different take. What if? You can have a comic book character exist in this world or a pretend world. For the most part, Marvel does a good job at creating a comic book world that is separate from the real world. We know that even though they use real places, these places are not real. Also, they are light-hearted and fun. I can get with that. There are no overarching themes about what it would mean for these people to exist in the world as we know it.
I am not sure if it is a mistake, or is it before its time, that this take on Superman/Batman will garner more appreciation as time passes. It is not a comic book movie. MOS was not a comic book movie just as the Nolan Batmans weren't comic book movies. The stakes are higher in these Snyder movies and the events have serious consequences in this world.
Imagine if there were a Superman or Meta Humans. Would humans be able to trust them? Superman does benevolent things, but what if he decides to not do it. Much of the lore relies on Superman being this all good guy. Great for the comics. Shitty for the real world.
So, I see the DC universe posing questions about "what if the comics were real." People may not want to see that. Well, at least they don't want to see it now.
I have listened and read some of the reviews and one of the main problem is that characterizations. I realize that there is this religious attachment to the characters and that people's rose colored glasses are on which limits them to seeing a different take. What if? You can have a comic book character exist in this world or a pretend world. For the most part, Marvel does a good job at creating a comic book world that is separate from the real world. We know that even though they use real places, these places are not real. Also, they are light-hearted and fun. I can get with that. There are no overarching themes about what it would mean for these people to exist in the world as we know it.
I am not sure if it is a mistake, or is it before its time, that this take on Superman/Batman will garner more appreciation as time passes. It is not a comic book movie. MOS was not a comic book movie just as the Nolan Batmans weren't comic book movies. The stakes are higher in these Snyder movies and the events have serious consequences in this world.
Imagine if there were a Superman or Meta Humans. Would humans be able to trust them? Superman does benevolent things, but what if he decides to not do it. Much of the lore relies on Superman being this all good guy. Great for the comics. Shitty for the real world.
So, I see the DC universe posing questions about "what if the comics were real." People may not want to see that. Well, at least they don't want to see it now.
Bingo. We aren't looking at Batman, young and idealistic. We are looking at a broken Batman that changed his methods because he believes his methods have failed him.
Do any of us know every story that gets people to where they are? Maybe that's a story that they'll explain at a later date. But YOU DO ADMIT something has happened correct? So why rail against it because they didn't feed you what happened? They already said this was a darker Batman than the one we are accustomed to. He's darker, older and damaged from too many wars he couldn't win.
And they showed us a tid bit when he turns to Robin's costume. But dudes are crying like they failed because they didn't show you how??? It was implied!! Just like the grey in his hair is to show this is years later from his beginning.
Ya'll been watching Punisher stack bodies for years and all of a sudden a hero turns deadly and tears start forming?
Great post. People are holding on to hard rules. He doesn't kill. The movie is too dark. How come Superman killed Zod. You don't realize that the nit killing mechanic was used partially because of the comic code back in the day. You can be a vigilante but you can't kill. All of those ideas were made to protect kids and as we got older people held onto those core beliefs as kids. We are not children. People evolve, characters have depth. Breaking someone arm and nose then sending them off to a jail (they'll only escape later) gets tired. If they survive make it based on their own wits and skill not because of some corny "code of honor".
And not to keep harping on this but it wasn't like Batman was killing hordes of villains like Punisher!
He clearly killed dude holding Martha Kent hostage but even that was like a rock and hard place situation.
If he didn't save her then all his fears of a rogue Superman are realized. And he just went against a Superman who wasn't even trying to fight and it nearly killed him!
Man at that point the fate of the world depended on him saving her. Pragmatic solution.
He clearly killed dude holding Martha Kent hostage but even that was like a rock and hard place situation.
If he didn't save her then all his fears of a rogue Superman are realized. And he just went against a Superman who wasn't even trying to fight and it nearly killed him!
Man at that point the fate of the world depended on him saving her. Pragmatic solution.
to bring up Punisher is a dishonest argument or you don't understand the core myth of Batman
Look a non lethal Punisher is the same as a lethal Spiderman - goes against both core myths
Its like a pacifist WonderWoman or facist Captain America... Batman with a high body count sounds sloppy or murderous, either way a change this different should have been written better especially since Snyder's starting point is the core myth. Or he should have created a totally different myth - look at how Bruce Timm created a new myth with a lethal Batman and Superman
damn!!! this movie was so bad that it made hans zimmer quit doing super hero movies
http://collider.com/hans-zimmer-retired-batman-v-superman/
http://collider.com/hans-zimmer-retired-batman-v-superman/
imo that final battle didn't need a score - but Snyder had Zimmer do one
to bring up Punisher is a dishonest argument or you don't understand the core myth of Batman
Look a non lethal Punisher is the same as a lethal Spiderman - goes against both core myths
Its like a pacifist WonderWoman or facist Captain America... Batman with a high body count sounds sloppy or murderous, either way a change this different should have been written better especially since Snyder's starting point is the core myth. Or he should have created a totally different myth - look at how Bruce Timm created a new myth with a lethal Batman and Superman
Of course I understand the core myth of Batman, I threw that out there to attack the notion that killing is bad. Lol
its currently incomplete...
If it was a novel they would be excoriated... 2.5 hours of film is too long not put together a complete story
Ben Affleck Has Definitely Written a Script for a Solo Batman Movie
We all suspected, but the William Morris Endeavor talent agency (in a lengthy interview with The Hollywood Reporter) has confirmed: Yes, Ben Affleck, the Dark Knight ofDC’s Cinematic Murderverse the live-action DC movie franchise, has written his own damn Batman movie.
Before you get too excited/relieved, it’s worth pointing out that Warner Bros. isn’t necessarily making this solo Batman movie or even choosing Affleck’s script for it, although they would be imbeciles of the highest order not to immediately agree to both. The news here is that the co-CEO of Affleck’s talent agency says Affleck has written a Batman movie script, and it’s “really cool.” Now this gentleman may be a touch biased, but it’s still nice to know that Affleck is genuinely invested in playing Batman beyond his contracted appearances in BvS and the two Justice League movies.
Also, I’m still 100% confident this movie will be officially announced, using Affleck’s script, as fast as WB can make it so. Besides the fact that Affleck is no slouch when it comes to screenwriting, WB very much doesn’t want to piss its new Batman off. Anyway, for those of you pleased with Affleck’s recent performance as the Dark Knight in Batman v Superman, or those of you who perhaps might have found the script somewhat.... lacking, this is absolutely good news.
We all suspected, but the William Morris Endeavor talent agency (in a lengthy interview with The Hollywood Reporter) has confirmed: Yes, Ben Affleck, the Dark Knight of
Before you get too excited/relieved, it’s worth pointing out that Warner Bros. isn’t necessarily making this solo Batman movie or even choosing Affleck’s script for it, although they would be imbeciles of the highest order not to immediately agree to both. The news here is that the co-CEO of Affleck’s talent agency says Affleck has written a Batman movie script, and it’s “really cool.” Now this gentleman may be a touch biased, but it’s still nice to know that Affleck is genuinely invested in playing Batman beyond his contracted appearances in BvS and the two Justice League movies.
Also, I’m still 100% confident this movie will be officially announced, using Affleck’s script, as fast as WB can make it so. Besides the fact that Affleck is no slouch when it comes to screenwriting, WB very much doesn’t want to piss its new Batman off. Anyway, for those of you pleased with Affleck’s recent performance as the Dark Knight in Batman v Superman, or those of you who perhaps might have found the script somewhat.... lacking, this is absolutely good news.
He's striking fear in the criminals. Remember the sex slaves? They didn't think he was human. They thought he was a monster not a man. That's exactly how I'd want to be seen of I'm striking fear in the hearts of men. That either they'd die or be severely injured if they came in contact with me vs. Being tied up with a batterang and left for the cops...whomp..whomp...I like this Batman better...he's broken...tired and very dangerous.
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See I respect this opinion and i completely agree with all of this.
Watch that movie again. Dude had mad body count. The scene when he came to the warehouse? He shot a dude up in a mounted gun flying in the batwing. Scene when he was getting the kryptonite? Crushed a thug in the corner of the truck with his batmobile. People are shooting military grade live rounds from mounted guns, shooting rpgs at him and ya'll want him to retaliate with what exactly? Shoot a baterang at a column, swing around and pull it on top of them? This ain't the 80's
used to be...
the ex wife Jennifer Garner didn't like him and Ben choose.
Supposedly they now cool since he divorced her but not like before
I was WAITING on this one
but I REALLY want to hear Fatman on Batman with my brother Marc.
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