Are men important in the black community?

dHustla

Rising Star
Registered
I'm a Sopranos fan and in one episode Tony Sopranos' son, AJ, is having problems with depression and suicide. Specifically, I'm referring to season 6, episode 19, where Meadow and AJ have a brief exchange and Meadow says something to the effect of, "You're their son, you'll always be more important."

I can't find that particular DVD in my collection and it's not on Youtube.

What I want to ask is "Is this also true for the black community?" If not, when and where did we lose respect for the significance of the man in our community?

Was it when some men lost respect for their own significance?
Was it when some women, for whatever reason(s), developed bitterness towards men and began to discount the capacity for which a man can contribute?
Was it when mothers stopped making their sons a priority?
Was it when fathers felt it was easier for them to remove themselves rather than cope and carry on?


DISCUSS
 
Was it when some women, for whatever reason(s), developed bitterness towards men and began to discount the capacity for which a man can contribute?

"For whatever reason(s)?" Like they aren't real and justified???
 
I think i want to say the final Was it. When men stopped being men. When they took the easy way and just left and forgot their place in the world. In their childrens lives. Everything in society right now tells a black man he's not needed. Or wanted. And it's just a trickle down effect.

Are they important? I want to believe they are. They SHOULD be. But as they are right now? No.
 
I'm a Sopranos fan and in one episode Tony Sopranos' son, AJ, is having problems with depression and suicide. Specifically, I'm referring to season 6, episode 19, where Meadow and AJ have a brief exchange and Meadow says something to the effect of, "You're their son, you'll always be more important."

I can't find that particular DVD in my collection and it's not on Youtube.

What I want to ask is "Is this also true for the black community?" If not, when and where did we lose respect for the significance of the man in our community?

Was it when some men lost respect for their own significance?
Was it when some women, for whatever reason(s), developed bitterness towards men and began to discount the capacity for which a man can contribute?
Was it when mothers stopped making their sons a priority?Was it when fathers felt it was easier for them to remove themselves rather than cope and carry on?

DISCUSS


I like the first one and the third one (of the ones I highlighted, of course) but I think son's have always been their mother's priority, just not in a way that's often conducive to producing fully functioning, productive, self sufficient adults. Show me a "sorry ass nigga" and I'll show you a mother that overindulge him and his every whim. That can be neutralized by a present (not necessarily live-in) father. As I mentioned in another thread on the main board, in my experience, the opposite sex parent is the one who will spoil a child while the same sex parent is the stricter of the two.
 
As I mentioned in another thread on the main board, in my experience, the opposite sex parent is the one who will spoil a child while the same sex parent is the stricter of the two.

Better to be spoiled and taken care of than to set a poor example that is guaranteed to be emulated by the child.
 
POSITIVE BLACK MEN-Are CRUCIAL to the black community.

Yes ma'am. *head nods

I think i want to say the final Was it. When men stopped being men. When they took the easy way and just left and forgot their place in the world. In their childrens lives. Everything in society right now tells a black man he's not needed. Or wanted. And it's just a trickle down effect.

Are they important? I want to believe they are. They SHOULD be. But as they are right now? No.

Like what? can you elaborate?
 
I think i want to say the final Was it. When men stopped being men. When they took the easy way and just left and forgot their place in the world. In their childrens lives. Everything in society right now tells a black man he's not needed. Or wanted. And it's just a trickle down effect.

Are they important? I want to believe they are. They SHOULD be. But as they are right now? No.

This is what I'm talking about. Not everyone has that support system to offset everything the world is telling them. That positive support system is Essential to the growth, development, and progression of men.

Once he's grown, you can't just orphan him.
 
Better to be spoiled and taken care of than to set a poor example that is guaranteed to be emulated by the child.

First, there are no guarantees in life. None.

It's not better at all. The result is the exact same: an adult who lacks the skills to maneuver successfully in life.
 
First, there are no guarantees in life. None.

Your odds are vastly improved with TWO parents in the house.

It's not better at all. The result is the exact same: an adult who lacks the skills to maneuver successfully in life.

So being raised by a caring mother is the same as being raised by a non-caring, ABSENTEE domestic abuser, gang-banger or slacker (who sets a self-destructive example in life for the male child)???
 
Your odds are vastly improved with TWO parents in the house.

Agree but it's not a guarantee.



So being raised by a caring mother is the same as being raised by a non-caring, ABSENTEE domestic abuser, gang-banger or slacker (who sets a self-destructive example in life for the male child)???

Please argue with points I actually make. A parent that spoils and over indulges a child is NOT a caring parent (mother or father. I notice you have a slanted perspective. Get over it.). Caring parents do what's best for the child, not what's easiest for them.
No, in the situation you described, I'd go with the caring mother. But in what I'm talking about, both the overindulgent parent and the neglectful parent end up producing the same adults.
 
I think i want to say the final Was it. When men stopped being men. When they took the easy way and just left and forgot their place in the world. In their childrens lives. Everything in society right now tells a black man he's not needed. Or wanted. And it's just a trickle down effect.

Are they important? I want to believe they are. They SHOULD be. But as they are right now? No.

may i offer the following as evidence?

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/
 
So pessimistic...

how so?

you don't need us around, except for sperm (wait, can get that at a clinic)

you have your degrees, you have your jobs, you have kids outside of marriage (whether planned or unplanned) the man runs off (because it's always the mans fault) and y'all do a super job of raising your kids


and now we have a generation of boys and girls who have seen that mom duke did it, on her own, her way...and the masculine side isn't needed

right?
 
how so?

you don't need us around, except for sperm (wait, can get that at a clinic)

you have your degrees, you have your jobs, you have kids outside of marriage (whether planned or unplanned) the man runs off (because it's always the mans fault) and y'all do a super job of raising your kids


and now we have a generation of boys and girls who have seen that mom duke did it, on her own, her way...and the masculine side isn't needed

right?

There may be sistas who feel like that .. but it is not all of us

Some of you are pushing away good women and hurting us with your generalizations

But you will think how you want regardless so carry on
 
how so?

you don't need us around, except for sperm (wait, can get that at a clinic)

you have your degrees, you have your jobs, you have kids outside of marriage (whether planned or unplanned) the man runs off (because it's always the mans fault) and y'all do a super job of raising your kids


and now we have a generation of boys and girls who have seen that mom duke did it, on her own, her way...and the masculine side isn't needed

right?
I hope you're being overly pessimistic on purpose to prove a point.

If not, you might wanna go head and, I dunno. I dunno.
 
There may be sistas who feel like that .. but it is not all of us

Some of you are pushing away good women and hurting us with your generalizations

But you will think how you want regardless so carry on

"not all of us..."

like how it's not all black men that generalize black women?

like how it's not all black men that catcall black women?

like how it's not all black men that dissrespect or beat the sh** out of black women?

yet it's those BM that gets talked about...right?


i mean, BGOL is nothing but...


#imjustsayin:rolleyes:
 
how so?

you don't need us around, except for sperm (wait, can get that at a clinic)

you have your degrees, you have your jobs, you have kids outside of marriage (whether planned or unplanned) the man runs off (because it's always the mans fault) and y'all do a super job of raising your kids


and now we have a generation of boys and girls who have seen that mom duke did it, on her own, her way...and the masculine side isn't needed

right?


So much wrong with this. I'm going to refer you to LD's response about you being overly pessimistic and hope for the same thing.


But to answer your questions, we women do need men for more than just sperm.

Women do a good of a job as they can, (when they care), to raise their children but if the man is not around and alive, no it is not always his fault that he and the mother are not together.

Just because a woman can do it on her own doesn't mean that a man and what he brings to the familial unit is not needed. If a woman instills that in her children that just means she hates men and is one naked chick away from being lesbian.
 
how so?

you don't need us around, except for sperm (wait, can get that at a clinic)

you have your degrees, you have your jobs, you have kids outside of marriage (whether planned or unplanned) the man runs off (because it's always the mans fault) and y'all do a super job of raising your kids


and now we have a generation of boys and girls who have seen that mom duke did it, on her own, her way...and the masculine side isn't needed

right?

...
 
how so?

you don't need us around, except for sperm (wait, can get that at a clinic)

you have your degrees, you have your jobs, you have kids outside of marriage (whether planned or unplanned) the man runs off (because it's always the mans fault) and y'all do a super job of raising your kids


and now we have a generation of boys and girls who have seen that mom duke did it, on her own, her way...and the masculine side isn't needed

right?
...
 
Yes ma'am. *head nods



Like what? can you elaborate?

It's more of an institutional thing. Especially in the black community. All my life all i've seen around me were absentee fathers and mothers doing it on their own. 3 of my best friends are products of this.

And no, i'm not saying this is true everywhere. And i know someone will pop around and say, "well where i'm from...it's not like this..." Or they'll say, "it's just the people you know..."

But no i don't think so. My view comes from a pretty wide spectrum i believe. I speak to alot of people and have observed a great many occurances. Spoken to alot of guys raised by single moms. Spoken to alot of single moms and daughters themselves.

It's always pretty much the same effect. These past few generations are growing up without fathers, without positive black male role models. And are learning the wrong things in life. And it's all the black man's fault.

It's a double edged sword too. I think so, just my opinion not stating this as fact. But women aren't accountable because men weren't accountable. Men were placed under extreme pressures and they couldn't survive. They couldn't make it out and the black family was shattered.

Something i did with my kids a few months ago, i gave them stacks of magazines and i had them watch TV and pay close attention and catalogue the tv shows and commercials, to see how many black men were shown to be fathers or even around.

The results were just insurmountable in favor of the idea that there's no black male presence. 1 thing that sticks out in my mind specifically was seeing the magazines, Family magazines and things like that. Where you'd find black mothers with children, white families together. The black men with their families? Almost NONE.

What message does this convey? On television i can count...maybe 2? Black family shows? Maybe 3? White family shows? Just off the top of your head? Shows with a mostly white cast? How many people are together?

Shows with a mostly black cast? How many people are together?

This recent rash of "where the good black man at?" Specials and CNBC and all that's going on? There's an issue somewhere. Crime dramas? Where's the father?

How are black people generally shown? Loving at home together mom and dad?

Black women if they say they need a man...What happens to them?

A little about me? This is my deceased husbands account. I'll tell anyone who'll listen. I NEED my husband. I MISS my husband. If i could turn back the hands of time and get my husband back i would. Because i need him. My balance is off. My everything that HELPED make me ME.

I need my black man. My point of view purely comes from the idea of what my sons are being shown. What my husband has been shown. All the male friends i discuss how they feel. What they feel like. There's a few black men here who are saying the same thing.

I've seen alot of things coming up to make me have these ideas. I've seen women berate their kids fathers, especially in front of boy children. I don't know what to do to change this. I just know that i keep MY sons in the knowledge they are loved and wanted by ME. If no one else.
 
It's more of an institutional thing. Especially in the black community. All my life all i've seen around me were absentee fathers and mothers doing it on their own. 3 of my best friends are products of this.

And no, i'm not saying this is true everywhere. And i know someone will pop around and say, "well where i'm from...it's not like this..." Or they'll say, "it's just the people you know..."

But no i don't think so. My view comes from a pretty wide spectrum i believe. I speak to alot of people and have observed a great many occurances. Spoken to alot of guys raised by single moms. Spoken to alot of single moms and daughters themselves.

It's always pretty much the same effect. These past few generations are growing up without fathers, without positive black male role models. And are learning the wrong things in life. And it's all the black man's fault.

It's a double edged sword too. I think so, just my opinion not stating this as fact. But women aren't accountable because men weren't accountable. Men were placed under extreme pressures and they couldn't survive. They couldn't make it out and the black family was shattered.

Something i did with my kids a few months ago, i gave them stacks of magazines and i had them watch TV and pay close attention and catalogue the tv shows and commercials, to see how many black men were shown to be fathers or even around.

The results were just insurmountable in favor of the idea that there's no black male presence. 1 thing that sticks out in my mind specifically was seeing the magazines, Family magazines and things like that. Where you'd find black mothers with children, white families together. The black men with their families? Almost NONE.

What message does this convey? On television i can count...maybe 2? Black family shows? Maybe 3? White family shows? Just off the top of your head? Shows with a mostly white cast? How many people are together?

Shows with a mostly black cast? How many people are together?

This recent rash of "where the good black man at?" Specials and CNBC and all that's going on? There's an issue somewhere. Crime dramas? Where's the father?

How are black people generally shown? Loving at home together mom and dad?

Black women if they say they need a man...What happens to them?

A little about me? This is my deceased husbands account. I'll tell anyone who'll listen. I NEED my husband. I MISS my husband. If i could turn back the hands of time and get my husband back i would. Because i need him. My balance is off. My everything that HELPED make me ME.

I need my black man. My point of view purely comes from the idea of what my sons are being shown. What my husband has been shown. All the male friends i discuss how they feel. What they feel like. There's a few black men here who are saying the same thing.

I've seen alot of things coming up to make me have these ideas. I've seen women berate their kids fathers, especially in front of boy children. I don't know what to do to change this. I just know that i keep MY sons in the knowledge they are loved and wanted by ME. If no one else.



I paused when I read the bolded text.

I continued to read your points that there is a problem across and throughout our entire demographic. I agree that there is a problem... but baby, the problem didn't manifest itself, nor did it happen overnight.

The problem of absentee men in the household is one that is a culmination of individual equations that are, themselves, inequitable.

I'm sorry for your loss, dear, I really am. But women play a part in these equations as well. There is no one entity or group that bears the burden of blame for our broken homes.

Women and men alike share responsibility because, if for no other reason, without them both there would be no family unit.

With that said, I'm reminded of another movie scene that maybe more have seen. "Raisin in the sun", the scene where Phylicia Rashad (I know it ain't the original) was talking to Sanaa Lathan about Puffy's recent bafoonish behavior. Phylicia Rashad, playing the mother of the family, told her daughter that "it's the times when men are at the lowest point that they need to be loved the most."

This was profound to me for personal reasons, but let's apply it to this discussion.

I'm aware that this is hard for anyone to do, man or woman, and that we are all the product of our experiences.
So, how many times have you seen a woman love a man the most at his lowest point?

How many times have you seen a woman fail to do this?


***Disclaimer***
We're on SOL do I DO NOT expect or intend for this to dissolve into a woman bashing ball. Only discussion that works towards the progression of Our community and solutions to problems.
 
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