All you Deadbeat Dads Explain

This letter is in response to an Upscale magazine article, Are Fathers Being Pimped?

Dear Editor:

I picked up your July issue of Upscale after returning from a recent trip promoting my book, The Pain of Vengeance. The reason for the prior statement is because I was stunned by the number of email I received during my absence pertaining to the article, Are Dads Being Pimped? You see, I am founder and president of I Love My Children, Too, a parental rights organization designed to reunite fathers with their children. In writing this letter, I hope to respond to a few points in your piece as well as maybe enlighten your readers on what I call America’s dirty little secret, the attack on fatherhood. Thanks for your attempt to bring to light something that has been destroying millions of fathers across this country for decades while government bureaucracies, attorneys, and some ex-wives and girlfriends live like royalty.

Needless to say, I am a father of two, and my story is not unlike those men you spoke with. It got so bad for me at one point I was ready to take my life rather than continue living in forced servitude by a government that does not give a damn about my children particularly those with black skin even though this issue crosses all socio-economic lines.

I recently conducted a seminar in Los Angeles, CA, called healing hurting men with Dr. Jeffrey Gardere. What stunned the women who attended was the sheer pain and frustration many of the fathers shared with the group. When I speak on this issue, I always pose a question to the women in the audience. If you had two children, and could only see them every other weekend, call once a week, have no say in the school they attend, religious upbringing, and 29% of your salary will go to the other parent with no accountability as to where it goes, would you as a mother be willing to conform to those guidelines? I have done numerous seminars and am yet to get one woman to say they would agree to those terms. This is no exaggeration and all admitted they loved their children yet they would not do what many consider a man must do. I then ask them if they are not willing to conform to that criterion, how do they expect the father to do so? Therein lies your problem and as a father I can truly say I was never a slave but the current child support system has got to be the closest thing to modern slavery than I have seen in some time. Are fathers being pimped? No doubt but the mothers are only the agents and the government is the true cat daddy.

What you failed to mention in your piece the million dollar cottage industries that have sprung up in this push to "make dads responsible." State governments alone are filling there coffers with surcharges and administrative fees from fathers who struggle to make ends meet. Tennessee was collecting an extra 5% above the court ordered award for child support and was placing that money in the general fund to build roads and bridges. I testified before a subcommittee nearly six years ago advising them their collections were illegal and immoral. Recently, after a class action lawsuit, the federal government too determined the child support collection guidelines were being violated and Tennessee was forced to stop the collection of the extra 5%. None of those illegal collections have been return to fathers because the state is claiming sovereign immunity. I would submit that fathers need their money also and just two years there was a glitch in the system and mothers were not getting the child support checks and the media, and state officials went out of their way to get the problem solved yet they refuse to return illegally collected money to fathers who have abided by an unjust law and paid monies that could have went to second families, rent, car note, etc.

I do want to address a few things in your article which raised my brow a bit. The statement regarding mandatory guidelines which combine both parents income is wrong.

There are many states that are now considering changing the current guidelines that currently only look at a father’s income to a income sharing model but they are only looking. To date, child support is based on the fathers income only and that exist in most states with only a very few exceptions.

Gary Driggers states in your article that parents can challenge the system if they think payments are not equitable and I say to Mr. Driggers, that is typical of a bureaucrat in the system who has no clue how badly the system is failing fathers. What are they going to challenge with? Fathers who show up in court with an attorney challenging what he considers an unfair payment might as well run through hell with gasoline drawers on. I can hear it now, "If you can hire an attorney then you can pay child support." On the other end of the spectrum, what about the fathers who can not afford an attorney, how do they challenge? What agencies are available for fathers to right a wrong? They are few and far between and so many dads simply shut up and take their castor oil. Some drop out of society, some turn to drugs and others commit violence against new wives or girlfriends.

As far as working overtime, there too is a dilemma because yes the baby’s mama expects a raise when the father gets one but more importantly, the courts are reluctant to decrease any child support even if it is overtime because any decrease will affect the courts bottom line. One has to remember that federal matching dollars for state projects are determined in many cases by the amount of child support a state collects. The state has a vested interest to collect as much as possible and here is the money trail I spoke about earlier. Working overtime will do nothing but put a father in a higher tax bracket, increasing his obligation and ultimately working that father to death.

Accountability is one of the biggest complaints I get from fathers and I can second that emotion and concur with the statements of dirty clothes and overall lack of support from the mother when the child is in the fathers care. I have seen child support go for everything except the child. In your article, Ms. Shabazz says "It’s not a big deal where the extra money goes." It is if you are the father struggling to pay it and I dare say she would not be so cavalier if the extra money was coming from her paycheck. Here’s a novel suggestion, how about taking that extra money and putting it in escrow for college. Quite often mothers like Ms. Shabazz even refuse to send child support back to the father when the child is in his custody let alone pay the father child support. Afterall, children eat sleep and require recreation while in the fathers care as well.

The issue of fathers having to pay back the government because of false claims by the mother is the ultimate insult. This is one more example of the government not concerned about fairness and equity but more about money. What sense does it make to punish a father who was not aware of the fraud? It would seem not punishing the perpetrator emboldens that person to continue their deception, thus rampant fraud in the welfare system.

One thing that sticks in my craw more that anything is the separation in the courts as it relates to child support and visitation. Both should be viewed as equal but unfortunately, most courts view them as separate issues often times ruling on the child support and setting another day in another court for visitation. Those fathers who are lucky enough to get a visitation order are often time subjected to a mother’s version of three card molly with the child being the card a father is looking for. Couple that with what psychologists now call the Parenting Alienation Syndrome and there is no wonder our children are in trouble. When contempt hearings are heard on this matter in court, the mother only receives a slap on the wrist and the father is viewed as litigious and vindictive. I witnessed an instance where the mother admitted on tape she would purposely ignore what the judge said and deny the father access to court ordered visitation. She also perjured herself on the stand by denying those comments. She held fast until the impeachable evidence was presented but only received a warning yet the father had just spent nine days in jail for failure to pay child support. Dad wasn’t a deadbeat; he had just been laid off his job. Child support can be made up but a missed visit or time can never be given back and that leaves fathers with no recourse except the courts who refuse to do anything. In fact, fathers are always viewed as the aggressor and usually leave whimpering after their court castration.

In closing, the current child support system is irreparably damaged and needs to be completed thrown out and rebuilt from scratch. It does nothing but pit fathers and mothers against one another with their children being the casualties. Of all the negative behavior our children participate in, the common denominator is fatherlessness. I dare anyone to ask a juvenile about his father and he will say, "I don’t know him." Ask a teen mother about her relationship with her father and most will say, "I don’t have one." With that being said here are a few statistics which should make anyone question a policy which contributes to so much societal pain.


79.6% of custodial mothers receive a support award
29.9% of custodial fathers receive a support award
46.9% of noncustodial mothers totally default on support
26.9% of noncustodial fathers totally default on support
20.0% of noncustodial mothers pay support on some level
61.0% of noncustodial fathers pay support at some level
66.2% of single custodial mothers work less than full-time
10.2% of single custodial fathers work less than full-time
7% of single custodial mothers work more than 77 hours weekly
24.5% of single custodial fathers work more than 44 hours weekly
46.2% of single custodial mothers receive public assistance
20.8% of single custodial fathers receive public assistance
—Technical Analysis Paper No. 42; US Dept. of HHS-Ofc. of Income Security Policy
90.2% of fathers with joint custody pay the support due
79.1% of fathers with visitation privileges pay the support due
44.5% of fathers with no visitation pay the support due
37.9% of fathers are denied any visitation
66% of all support not paid by noncustodial fathers is due to the inability to pay
—1988 Census “Child Support & Alimony:1989 Series P-60. No 173p.6-7 &usgao Report” GAO/HRD-9239fs Jan 1992
50% of mothers support not paid by noncustodial fathers continued contact with his children
—“Surviving the Breakup”, by Joan Berlin Kelly
40% of mothers reported that they had interfered with the fathers’ visitation to punish the ex-spouse
—”Frequency of Visitation” by Stanford Braver, American Journal of Orthopsychiatry
63% of Youth suicides are from fatherless homes
—-US DHHS Bureau of Census
90% of all homeless and runaway children are form fatherless homes
85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes
—-CDC
80% of rapist motivated with displaced anger come form fatherless homes
--Criminal Justice and Behavior Vol. 14, p 403
71% of all high school dropouts come form fatherless homes
—-National Principals Assoc. Report on the State of High School
70% of all juveniles in state operated institutions come from fatherless homes
—US Dept of Justice Special Report Sept. 19
88% of all youth sitting in prisons grew up in fatherless homes

TRANSLATED: THIS MEANS that children from fatherless homes are:

5 times more likely to commit suicide
9 times more likely to drop out of school
20 times more likely to end up in prison
10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances
32 times more likely to run away
20 times more likely to have behavior disorders
14 times more likely to commit rape
9 times more likely to end up in state operated institutions

Here’s the question. If our government already knew the detriment afflicted on children due to fatherlessness, why aren’t they doing more to encourage and support fathers? Could it be because there is more money in pain and suffering than in health and prosperity?

America should be ashamed of the way it views, values and treats fathers. If a mother can not take care of her child, she gets housing vouchers, job training, bus tokens, food, and anything else necessary to assist in the upbringing of a child. If a father can not take care of his children, he too gets government assistance…JAIL If this country truly wants to save our children, then we must begin with fathers.

Sincerely,

David W. Coleman
 
TREY-GA said:
....my point was that its about more than money given to the mother each week..its about TIME spent with your child!!!!, not how many pair of Jordans you bought him.......being a good father means spending time with YOUR child, teaching YOUR child, nurturing, loving, caring, and disciplining YOUR child...if YOU are not there YOU aren't doing YOUR job....sending money on b'days and holidays, and calling every few months will never make up for what the child is missing on a daily basis....I had a good father in the home growing up and I know for a fact I would be a totally different person if I was raised solely by my mom...

Ok I agree with that. I just thought you meant it took more cash than that. I make sure to take care of the time part every week. The system takes care of the money.
 
Damn Right said:
i got a homeboy whose baby mama filed for child support in TWO DIFFERENT COUNTIES and gettin support garnished for the same kid! tha beatch went to l.a county to file then THAT DAY drove to san diego county and filed. when my homeboy saw his check he was like 'AWW HELL NAW!' called and gave the info. they both was like 'we don't have nuthin to do with the other county. not our problem. u gotta pay.'

Your boy needs to get a lawyer.
 
XXXplosive said:
I can understand not wanting to spend outrageous child support payments but there's no excuse to not wanting to spend TIME with your kids
Basically.......... The Question that WorldEx stated was about spending time and RAISING your kid and that is independent of monetary value
 
outlaw said:
This avatar is the absolute shit!!!
avatar17109_0.gif


:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

I'm jealous because I didn't think of it first...
:angry: :lol: :angry:
 
gameboy said:
it's a males natural role to "insemenate" the woman,,, and "provide" for his seed (exactly the role child support plays). women are the natural "nurturers" to the seed.

notice in the animal kindgdom,,, most males don't even stick around after the conception. therefore,,, if a man didn't purposely plan on having a child,,, he doesn't naturally feel the need to nurture his seed.

The funny thing about this remark, is that a man is in control from the start to get a woman pregant. If he does not want to have a child with her, withdraw and bust outside. You know if you do she will get pregant, thus you control it. Now if you bust inside regardless if it's one night stand, a chick you will never want get pregant and you did your nuts inside of her...STEP UP. iT'S YOURS BLOOD, DO YOUR BEST.
 
HandsSolo2K5 said:
Basically.......... The Question that WorldEx stated was about spending time and RAISING your kid and that is independent of monetary value

CO/SIGN
At the same time if you rolling on "24" and can not pay a dime, I can understand why she would chew your head off.
 
WorldEX said:
The funny thing about this remark, is that a man is in control from the start to get a woman pregant. If he does not want to have a child with her, withdraw and bust outside. You know if you do she will get pregant, thus you control it. Now if you bust inside regardless if it's one night stand, a chick you will never want get pregant and you did your nuts inside of her...STEP UP. iT'S YOURS BLOOD, DO YOUR BEST.

Not quite...

Pulling out is not a guaranteed method.

Many a man have gotten many a woman "preg-e-nant" because he had "leakage"(best way I could put it)
 
Deadbeat Dad can be a dad who spends time with his children.........just because you are around them does not mean that you are being a positive influence on them.

My cousin grew up with both his parents but he told me that he has more respect for his moms boyfriend because he took the time out to take him fishing, tell him about women, how to shave properly and alot more shit.

Now, his dad was supporting the family but I guess he didnt spend enough time to know my cousin.

Hearing that, I grew up with that story planted in my mind and not wanting some other man showing my children the quality time.
 
coolnmellow said:
I've got a story. My 19 year old son is enrolled in college courses 9 hours to be exact. He also has a full time job that pays him $24 an hour. I am still paying his Mom $1300 a month child support because he is considered a full time student. In Missouri cases you pay until they are 22 years old or drop out of school. He does not want to go to school but his mom pays for Juco. My other partner is paying child support for a grandchild because his son got a girl pregnant and he is 16 and a minor. The courts make the parents pay. I have a great relationship with my son but he does not want to make his Mom mad so he plays the game.

Missouri has some of harshest laws in the county.. that Title13 is no joke.. that why i'm not having kids. :smh:
 
Shit I'm glad my son was born in Michigan where both parents incomes are taken into account. And more so that my son's mother will soon be making about 10x as much as me and isn't a dumb broad. On the subject of being there for your child, I can see where many of you stand, as far as the I had a good father in the home and what not. But thats not an option for many people, and for many reasons. I recently took a job out of state, well pretty much on the other side of the country and being in MI everyday just isn't an option. Luckily for me my BM understands that if I am to support my child this is something I have to do, and we will try to work it out. Basically while it is true that most bm's will harbor some ill feelings toward the father for not being with them, If you chose the right one to knock up and you handle yours you should be fine.
 
My homeboy who is a sheriff always tells niggas to keep EVERY receipt of everything you brought for the child. He's always says that niggas fuck up because they either be buying alot of shit in cash and don't keep the receipt or they dont write checks. Even if you have to pay alot just to get a checking account or make a money order everytime you buy something DO IT. When you go to court you can say as much as you want about all the shit you got for the baby but wheres the receipts, checks, bill statements to prove it. Oh you have none? Case closed mother wins. Document ecerything!
 
TREY-GA said:
I don't know the facts of your particular situation but just in general,
....explain to me how a woman raising a child(or multiple children) alone is in better shape than you are as a single man and all you have to pay is child support..who feeds, clothes and takes care of that child 24/7, daycare, sickness, homework.etc.????...who comforts YOUR child when your child fears the bully at school, the violence in the street,the storms at night,etc...the cost of raising a child PROPERLY is far more $200/week...being a good father is something you decide TO DO or NOT DO..its not even about the money, A GOOD father spends time with his children, because he cares and loves them..bottom line is no CHILD ever asked to be here and if you call your self a real man you will take care of YOUR responsibility, and not leave it to YOUR girl, or the STATE(us, the taxpayer)...I know many cats complaining about paying child support, yet they have money to hang out 3-4 nites a week, in the club, tossing bills to strippers and wasting money all over town, but don't have time for their own children, theirr own blood...its sad....makes you wonder how our children make it anywhere in the world today when they aren't loved in their own home....WE NEED TO FIX THIS, TIME FOR BROTHAS TO BE STRAIGHT WITH EACH OTHER

Dude, take a deeeeeeep breath, wipe the tears out you eyes, and read your subject. I replied to the topic of financial support, not overall fatherhood. If that is the case, title it so. And I specifically used the figure I did solely for demonstrative purposes. And I said that when I posted it. I did not speak at all to the other aspects of parenthood, nor was that the original stated
thrust of my post.

SOOOOO, to more directly answer your post, what makes you automatically think that "deadbeat dads" may not be thinking about thier kids ? If you think there is a difference between economic and emotional support, what makes you think they don't think the same thing? Just because they may not be able to provide legally acceptable amounts of economic support that they aren't there otherwise for thier children?

I'm glad you are so in love with your kids, and that will benifit them trmendously in life. But don't think that because others do not emulate what you do, that means they do not care. It seems, thankfully, that you have absolutely no idea what it means to go through babymommadrama. I pray that you never do, for it is some of the most heartwrenching pain a loving father will endure. I went through it when my wife and I were having difficulties some time back. And many of the brothers I talked with felt many of the same emotions, and we get so little support that I can see why some brothers break, for no one is omnipotent. So stop it with the "how could you"'s and all that other Essence magazine "say,brother" sappyness. Shit is real out here, and it is often not how it seems.
 
Damn,

I am a deadbeat dad. I have custody of my daughter whom I have raised ON MY OWN since day one of her life. The mother and I parted ways and she moved on to another state leaving my daughter behind. She returned years later and tried to take her from me. With no money, no attorney I defeated over 9 different cases in family court here in NYC. 6 Custody/Visitation, 2 Child Support and 1 Family Offense Petition. Through all of this I have had over 30+ jobs. I am the kind of man that if I get laid off on a Friday I will have work by Monday. Legal work. Though the mom was losing the cases in court the actual act of appearing was killing me emotionally, my ability to provide and take care of my daughter. I still have custody of my daughter but I am a deadbeat dad.

When you do a call out for deadbeat dads...What do you mean as per your local community standards or by the state? Or worst yet by the media? From my personal experience I have been in court for child support WHILE HAVING custody. Because the mother/public assistance officer gave the court a bogus address I was not informed and my wages were getting garnished.... 3 pay periods in a row.... by the time I got wind of it...I was on a list of NON INVOLVED MALES in OCSE. Through this my daughter was living with me and the Custody/Visitation court knew this but Child support did not.

I had to take the city to court and with the help of the public advocates office I was able to clear my name, arrears and have the mother arrested for welfare fraud. But technically speaking I am a deadbeat dad.... though my daughter is intelligent and well mannered.

There is more to this than I wrote but I did not want to bog down the flow of the thread. At the same time you ask the question about deadbeat dads...ask yourselves.... How does one man become a father legally? What happens when that man is not informed? And What about the numbers of deadbeat moms that dodge child support but get less time and more lenient jail time for arrears?

This is not a man vs. woman issue but a responsibly vs. irresponsibly with a mix of legality and system abuse.

Peace,
Megazell
 
Fuckallyall said:
Dude, take a deeeeeeep breath, wipe the tears out you eyes, and read your subject. I replied to the topic of financial support, not overall fatherhood. If that is the case, title it so. And I specifically used the figure I did solely for demonstrative purposes. And I said that when I posted it. I did not speak at all to the other aspects of parenthood, nor was that the original stated
thrust of my post.

SOOOOO, to more directly answer your post, what makes you automatically think that "deadbeat dads" may not be thinking about thier kids ? If you think there is a difference between economic and emotional support, what makes you think they don't think the same thing? Just because they may not be able to provide legally acceptable amounts of economic support that they aren't there otherwise for thier children?

I'm glad you are so in love with your kids, and that will benifit them trmendously in life. But don't think that because others do not emulate what you do, that means they do not care. It seems, thankfully, that you have absolutely no idea what it means to go through babymommadrama. I pray that you never do, for it is some of the most heartwrenching pain a loving father will endure. I went through it when my wife and I were having difficulties some time back. And many of the brothers I talked with felt many of the same emotions, and we get so little support that I can see why some brothers break, for no one is omnipotent. So stop it with the "how could you"'s and all that other Essence magazine "say,brother" sappyness. Shit is real out here, and it is often not how it seems.

Church, It's easy to criticize when not faced with the problem's of a B/M.
 
Megazell said:
Damn,

I am a deadbeat dad. I have custody of my daughter whom I have raised ON MY OWN since day one of her life. The mother and I parted ways and she moved on to another state leaving my daughter behind. She returned years later and tried to take her from me. With no money, no attorney I defeated over 9 different cases in family court here in NYC. 6 Custody/Visitation, 2 Child Support and 1 Family Offense Petition. Through all of this I have had over 30+ jobs. I am the kind of man that if I get laid off on a Friday I will have work by Monday. Legal work. Though the mom was losing the cases in court the actual act of appearing was killing me emotionally, my ability to provide and take care of my daughter. I still have custody of my daughter but I am a deadbeat dad.

When you do a call out for deadbeat dads...What do you mean as per your local community standards or by the state? Or worst yet by the media? From my personal experience I have been in court for child support WHILE HAVING custody. Because the mother/public assistance officer gave the court a bogus address I was not informed and my wages were getting garnished.... 3 pay periods in a row.... by the time I got wind of it...I was on a list of NON INVOLVED MALES in OCSE. Through this my daughter was living with me and the Custody/Visitation court knew this but Child support did not.

I had to take the city to court and with the help of the public advocates office I was able to clear my name, arrears and have the mother arrested for welfare fraud. But technically speaking I am a deadbeat dad.... though my daughter is intelligent and well mannered.

There is more to this than I wrote but I did not want to bog down the flow of the thread. At the same time you ask the question about deadbeat dads...ask yourselves.... How does one man become a father legally? What happens when that man is not informed? And What about the numbers of deadbeat moms that dodge child support but get less time and more lenient jail time for arrears?

This is not a man vs. woman issue but a responsibly vs. irresponsibly with a mix of legality and system abuse.

Peace,
Megazell


I do not think you are deadbeat dad from what you wrote here, it's tough either for man or woman raising a child on their own. Good that you are doing your thing. :)
 
Well, its just simply the amount of ethics violations. Yet we men have to behave honorably or get the brunt of the law. These laws were made by people who dont expect to be in this situation themselves. Consequently its done to appease women's advocate groups.
 
Fuckallyall said:
First of all, many deadbeat dads are so because of arrears, not current payments. And many of those arrears are not true arrears. Example:

I have a babymomma. I started out by giving her $100/cash/week and paying for daycare. A couple of years later, and we got beef. She now goes to court for support and finds out that she could have received 200/week along with the daycare. She now says I didn't give her SHIT! and just payed for daycare. So now I not only have to pay 200/week plus daycare I now immediately owe 25G's plus interest (200/week x's 128 weeks [2 years]).
All of a sudden, I'm a deadbeat dad. Pay gets garnished, credit's ruined, can't get any professional certifications, in some states, I can't get liscences renewed.

Or, cat's who don't have jobs to begin with get hit with support orders.

Don't get me wrong. There are straight up grimey mofos out there, but not as many as you think. The child support system is a vestige of the time when women did not have the economic or political power they have today, and many of the enhancements to the system are IMO, anti-father.
i FEEL YA BROTHER JUST STAY STRONG IT WILL GET BETTER... JUST WORK ON GETTING A BETTER PAYING JOB NOW... DONT LET THE BABY MOMA KNOW THIS ( OR SHE WILL BE BACK IN COURT ASKING FOR AN INCREASE) VERY SELDOM DOES THE COURT SYSTEM ( CAUSE THEY ARE ALL FUCKED UP ) GO BACK TO REVIEW YOUR INCOME ONCE THE ORIGINAL ORDER ISSUED... SO BE SMART SEVER TIES WITH THE EX PERMANETLY TRY AND PICK YOUR DAUGTHER UP ELSEWHERE AND BUILD A RELATIONSHIP WITH HER FROM THAT POINT. BUT NEVER NEVER EVER LET YOUR EX NO THAT YOU MOVING ON UP TO THE EAST SIDE.. CAUSE WHEN YOU DO SHES GOING BACK TO COURT. BE GRATEFUL THAT THEY AINT TAKING OUTTA YO CHECK 1200 ( FOR ONE KID ) LIKE THEY DOING ME IN CALI......
 
lakers32 said:
i FEEL YA BROTHER JUST STAY STRONG IT WILL GET BETTER... JUST WORK ON GETTING A BETTER PAYING JOB NOW... DONT LET THE BABY MOMA KNOW THIS ( OR SHE WILL BE BACK IN COURT ASKING FOR AN INCREASE) VERY SELDOM DOES THE COURT SYSTEM ( CAUSE THEY ARE ALL FUCKED UP ) GO BACK TO REVIEW YOUR INCOME ONCE THE ORIGINAL ORDER ISSUED... SO BE SMART SEVER TIES WITH THE EX PERMANETLY TRY AND PICK YOUR DAUGTHER UP ELSEWHERE AND BUILD A RELATIONSHIP WITH HER FROM THAT POINT. BUT NEVER NEVER EVER LET YOUR EX NO THAT YOU MOVING ON UP TO THE EAST SIDE.. CAUSE WHEN YOU DO SHES GOING BACK TO COURT. BE GRATEFUL THAT THEY AINT TAKING OUTTA YO CHECK 1200 ( FOR ONE KID ) LIKE THEY DOING ME IN CALI......


Thanks for the kind words, but that was just an example. I've been with my wife for 15 years and we have two kids. I have helped several peeps with domestic drama, and understand the system. Once again, thanks.
 
Part of the problem is that there's very little incentive for a father to be involved. Looking back on my own marriage I realize that the things I did to help out and be a family man are the things that put me in the hole I'm in now. On the other hand the asshole things I did saved me.

For instance, back when we were married and my wife had her second child she didn't feel like she needed to work. Meanwhile I was going deep into debt just to maintain family expenses, shit she should have been helping me with. Finally I put my foot down and said "Look, if you don't get a job by the end of the month I'm leaving. I've done the math and it's no longer cheaper to keep you." She got a job and kept it. Find out later that if I hadn't made that "dick move" I would have owed her alimony on top of child support.

On the other hand, when I left her all the utilities were in my name. So for the first 6 months I paid them all myself in leiu of child support. My reasoning was that a) The children were getting a direct benefit from those utilities b) it was one less burdon she would have to deal with as a single mom and c) It ensured that at least some of the money was going to something useful. Find out later that none of that counted as child support and now I'm in arrears for money that I already paid.

Legally speaking, if a man makes a woman pregnant his best option is to dump her, skip town and ask for a monthly invoice. Any kind of love, affection or actual responsibility he shows is only going to get him into trouble. IMHO THIS more than anything else is what turns men into deadbeat dads.
 
Dannyblueyes said:
Part of the problem is that there's very little incentive for a father to be involved. Looking back on my own marriage I realize that the things I did to help out and be a family man are the things that put me in the hole I'm in now. On the other hand the asshole things I did saved me.

For instance, back when we were married and my wife had her second child she didn't feel like she needed to work. Meanwhile I was going deep into debt just to maintain family expenses, shit she should have been helping me with. Finally I put my foot down and said "Look, if you don't get a job by the end of the month I'm leaving. I've done the math and it's no longer cheaper to keep you." She got a job and kept it. Find out later that if I hadn't made that "dick move" I would have owed her alimony on top of child support.

On the other hand, when I left her all the utilities were in my name. So for the first 6 months I paid them all myself in leiu of child support. My reasoning was that a) The children were getting a direct benefit from those utilities b) it was one less burdon she would have to deal with as a single mom and c) It ensured that at least some of the money was going to something useful. Find out later that none of that counted as child support and now I'm in arrears for money that I already paid.

Legally speaking, if a man makes a woman pregnant his best option is to dump her, skip town and ask for a monthly invoice. Any kind of love, affection or actual responsibility he shows is only going to get him into trouble. IMHO THIS more than anything else is what turns men into deadbeat dads.

Bruh, i feel your frustration, but disagree with your conclusion...I notice you used the phrase "my wife had her 2nd child"...its your child too, right???, maybe "our" is more appropriate...and there was a time when a man got a 2nd or 3rd job to make ends meet, its not a permanent thing, just a big challenge for you to make it until things get better...that would be the "BIG MAN" move in my opinion...."Any kind of love, affection or actual responsibility he shows"...( isn't that the main reason you married the woman and had 2 kids with her????) ....why cut and run and leave children without a father or is it simply a way to run from your responsibility and have it both ways...A FAMILY over there and something on the side OVER HERE...to me it sounds like selfishness on your part...how do you just pick up and leave emotions, and attachments to people so easily??? :confused:
 
TREY-GA said:
Bruh, i feel your frustration, but disagree with your conclusion...I notice you used the phrase "my wife had her 2nd child"...its your child too, right???, maybe "our" is more appropriate


Seems like in the legal system, he may as well have not even been in the same room at the time conception occurred. The man has absolutely no voice as to what happens to the child and yet, he's expected to give a damn about a child whose mother's soul purpose is to make his life as miserable as she damn well pleases.

I'm not saying the woman is the one to blame here. Honestly it's the whole judicial system. It's just ridiculously inefficient. Sure there are blood sucking women out there, but with lawyers and judges that pretty much hold the man down for her, it doesn't make sense to point the finger only at the mother. After all, she's not the one that has the gravel in court.

TREY-GA said:
...and there was a time when a man got a 2nd or 3rd job to make ends meet, its not a permanent thing, just a big challenge for you to make it until things get better...that would be the "BIG MAN" move in my opinion.... ....


Dannyblueyes said:
For instance, back when we were married and my wife had her second child she didn't feel like she needed to work. Meanwhile I was going deep into debt just to maintain family expenses, shit she should have been helping me with. Finally I put my foot down and said "Look, if you don't get a job by the end of the month I'm leaving. I've done the math and it's no longer cheaper to keep you." She got a job and kept it. Find out later that if I hadn't made that "dick move" I would have owed her alimony on top of child support.

Sounds like the mother had no intentions of getting a job, and the whole situation would've been a total loss for this brother had he not made the move he did.

TREY-GA said:
why cut and run and leave children without a father or is it simply a way to run from your responsibility and have it both ways...

Until you've been in the situation, it's best not to speak on it. It's like trying to blame someone for being attracted to someone of the same sex. Sure you could talk about how "wrong" they are and how abnormal it is, but at the end of the day, you aren't them and you really don't know what they've had to deal with in life.

TREY-GA said:
A FAMILY over there and something on the side OVER HERE...to me it sounds like selfishness on your part...how do you just pick up and leave emotions, and attachments to people so easily??? :confused:

I could be wrong, but I don't recall reading anything on the side.

TREY-GA said:
"Any kind of love, affection or actual responsibility he shows"...( isn't that the main reason you married the woman and had 2 kids with her????)

Believe it or not, not every couple gets married for emotional reasons. Some get married because it wouldn't look right for either of them to have a child outside of marriage.
 
DMXtreem said:
Well here is one for the class. I have never met my father, although I know were he curently is. My mother never took him to court but took care of me and all my older sisters, bought her own home and finished school. I am now married and have children of my own. I never gave my fatherless situation much thought until I started having my own children. He has never looked me up or tried to contact me. For some strange reason, recently, I just feel like showing up at the doorstep like "suprise MoFo" and just totaly destroy any peace and tranquility he has left on this earth. Would I be wrong????????


As I read posts like this... I wonder if you ever took the time to ask yo mama why she had a kid with a man who wasn't even thinking about marrying her...

In the old days (maybe 30 to 40 years ago) the father usually married the woman whom he impregnated. Now that women proclaim there sexual freedom to do as they please and loudly proclaim "my body, my choice"... the children are the "new" victims of not only the father but equally the "mothers" choices.

I don't for one minute "excuse" men for going along with this kinda crap... but women make "choice" to carry a child to term whether they are with or without the father. For example... a woman who "who" chooses artificial insemination automatically makes a declaration the father will not be a part of the childs life.

Is he too... someone the child should hate?


Women are playing a "dangerous" game with their reproductive choices. This is what truly needs to stop. I'm not saying your mom is at fault... but making a child is easy (it takes more effort to get a drivers license than have a child).... takin care of children is the part that some women do not think about while feeling they are so happy cause they are pregnant. It costs lots of money to raise 1 kid let alone more than 1....
 
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GeeZnu said:
it all goes down to not fucking a bitch raw that u dont want kids by. do like i do go to hospitals get free condoms they even have free condom websites that will ship them shits to you. and u keep them mo fos in your car , your locker , your wallet and your socks trust me you will be better off.
condoms break.
 
youngfocus said:
I was in a crafty situation at one point of my life with child support b.s. I started out paying her "cash" ( I used money orders to keep a paper trail on her ass just in case she tried to pull some shit) my son was 1 at the time and I was droppin 375 a month on her/him just in that not to mention the money I just gave to her besides that. Then she found out her moms could get paid for "baby sitting" him so she threw the child support up which turn the money into 225....I was like cool...Then my job went under a major construction and I tried to relocate but I wasn't making enough money to make ends meet so I filed for unemployment and shit went to hell after that. I got backed up and I got court documents saying I Owe over 15,000 I called the courts they have no record of me calling stated that I went under unemployment so I'm stuck paying this bullshit back support I had her take off the support recently because received a job in different country making $800 U.S. dollars while im here still paying back support, and taking care of him full-time and she nor her family hasn't given me shit. So I say I wasn't being a dead-beat dad I fell on hard times like some people do. But I'm back on my feet trying to mend the situation with my debt. And really upset at her ass for leaving her son for 8 months out the year. But thats a different topic

You are not a "deadbeat" dad regardless of what the courts or anyone who is inexperienced with the child support system has to say. The system is grossly inefficient and creates a lot of problems for non custodial fathers.

Keep your head up high and keep on keepin on. Your issues affect many men black white green and brown..... Men both rich and poor.... I've seen it first hand. You would be amazed at the number of "professional" men who have similar issues.

What I have learned.... is some children when they reach age.... become a lot smarter than the mom and begin to see through the web of "deceit" crafted by the courts and even the mom. It takes time.... but eventually.... what goes around comes around.
 
I AM A DEAD BEAT DAD. And in response to the question "How can we do it?" its hard to do but at the same time its easier to be a deadbeat than it is to deal with the situation. I dont know about your state but in Ga if you have a child and are not married you can give it up. You only have a right to pay child support nothing else. Its easier to be a deadbeat than it is to beat yourself over the head and go crazy trying to be part of your childs life. So for my sanity I stay away.
 
TREY-GA said:
....my point was that its about more than money given to the mother each week..its about TIME spent with your child!!!!, not how many pair of Jordans you bought him.......being a good father means spending time with YOUR child, teaching YOUR child, nurturing, loving, caring, and disciplining YOUR child...if YOU are not there YOU aren't doing YOUR job....sending money on b'days and holidays, and calling every few months will never make up for what the child is missing on a daily basis....I had a good father in the home growing up and I know for a fact I would be a totally different person if I was raised solely by my mom...

Dude.... I wonder what you "really" understand about these situations. There are some real "scoundrels" out there... but ..... thats all media and what women "choose" to talk about.

For example... a woman can take a child and move to another locale or state... You can stop her from doing that.... but its gonna cost you more money cause you have to go to court to take action against that.

Mounting debts and child support will drive the mother crazy but it will also "force" the father to make "difficult" decisions as well. In the end... its the child that misses out. Dad is out tryin to make cash to not only take care of himself but his child as well. If he has to take on a second job.... that means it cuts into his time with the child.

Tough decisions have to made.... do I make the money to keep the child support people off my back.... or do I keep my weekends free to spend it with my kid.... chances are... you go after the money.... at least the kid gets his/her check....and its a lot smarter move in the "long run." Why.... the consequences are jail if you get behind on child support... you don't go to jail for missing a weekend visit with your kid.
 
GaBoi said:
I AM A DEAD BEAT DAD. And in response to the question "How can we do it?" its hard to do but at the same time its easier to be a deadbeat than it is to deal with the situation. I dont know about your state but in Ga if you have a child and are not married you can give it up. You only have a right to pay child support nothing else. Its easier to be a deadbeat than it is to beat yourself over the head and go crazy trying to be part of your childs life. So for my sanity I stay away.

You're not a deadbeat dad... get that out of your head....

Your choices are.... either pay the child support or go to jail....its "economic extortion" and a modified form of "black mail" of which women are the primary benefactors.

Our court systems even know it... (they have men in there families that are going through the same bullshit) but they don't have the "stones" to tell you that. Thats why its easier just to go with the general idea that if you're behind.... then you're just another deadbeat.
 
HandsSolo2K5 said:
Basically.......... The Question that WorldEx stated was about spending time and RAISING your kid and that is independent of monetary value

Yep.... sounds like he's been spendin his time only talkin to women..... women will completely "brainwash" you if "believe" everything they tell you.

He needs to spend more of his time talkin to men...
 
bromack1 said:
As I read posts like this... I wonder if you ever took the time to ask yo mama why she had a kid with a man who wasn't even thinking about marrying her...

In the old days (maybe 30 to 40 years ago) the father usually married the woman whom he impregnated. Now that women proclaim there sexual freedom to do as they please and loudly proclaim "my body, my choice"... the children are the "new" victims of not only the father but equally the "mothers" choices.

I don't for one minute "excuse" men for going along with this kinda crap... but women make "choice" to carry a child to term whether they are with or without the father. For example... a woman who "who" chooses artificial insemination automatically makes a declaration the father will not be a part of the childs life.

Is he too... someone the child should hate?


Women are playing a "dangerous" game with their reproductive choices. This is what truly needs to stop. I'm not saying your mom is at fault... but making a child is easy (it takes more effort to get a drivers license than have a child).... takin care of children is the part that some women do not think about while feeling they are so happy cause they are pregnant. It costs lots of money to raise 1 kid let alone more than 1....

I do not see the point of why the child would hate his dad. The man is more of sperm donor, but that is the power of woman's choice to decide on her reproduction who and what genes traits she wants her child to have. I know few bisexuals women who have this done. They can cherry pick the type of man such as intelligence, race, height,bla-bla....Now the child sooner or later would want to know who am I one day. That only leave the woman to tell the true of all she knows about the sperm donor. Besides there are internet webpages of such children looking for that connection.


The reason why I post this question, is two incidents happen past xmas to two beautiful kids I personally know, both without a dad; and both mothers refuses to talk to them about their dads.
The first child is a girl, age 11. Never met her dad...Super deadbeat, I heard he had over 10 kids and do not take care of any of them. He saw her mother early last yr and could not remember his own daughter's name. Never paid a dime. Anyhow the little girl was talking to her male cousin whose dad is also a deadbeat dad, I should not say 100%, he did try, but got fedup with fights...but never-the-less, somewhat deadbeat. The two kids were over heard asking each other if they know their dad's. And they did ask questions to their mom's and both mothers refuse to tell them anything..not even the dad's name. I just think that was wrong, so I said saying the name is ok, but be truthful to the kids about it all. To make a long story short they did and the kids now knows the truth and will decide for themself how to handle that face chat with their respected dad.

Im defence of the women I know who refused to speak of the child father's name, one dad kick her down the stairs when she was pregant so she can lose the child, and the other was beaten and raped by her boyfriend few times.....I can understand why they do not want the child to know these things, it was hard for them to remember the past...but that what it is..the past.
 
WorldEX said:
I do not see the point of why the child would hate his dad. The man is more of sperm donor, but that is the power of woman's choice to decide on her reproduction who and what genes traits she wants her child to have. I know few bisexuals women who have this done. They can cherry pick the type of man such as intelligence, race, height,bla-bla....Now the child sooner or later would want to know who am I one day. That only leave the woman to tell the true of all she knows about the sperm donor. Besides there are internet webpages of such children looking for that connection.


The reason why I post this question, is two incidents happen past xmas to two beautiful kids I personally know, both without a dad; and both mothers refuses to talk to them about their dads.

The first child is a girl, age 11. Never met her dad...Super deadbeat, I heard he had over 10 kids and do not take care of any of them. He saw her mother early last yr and could not remember his own daughter's name. Never paid a dime.

Anyhow the little girl was talking to her male cousin whose dad is also a deadbeat dad, I should not say 100%, he did try, but got fedup with fights...but never-the-less, somewhat deadbeat.

The two kids were over heard asking each other if they know their dad's. And they did ask questions to their mom's and both mothers refuse to tell them anything..not even the dad's name. I just think that was wrong, so I said saying the name is ok, but be truthful to the kids about it all. To make a long story short they did and the kids now knows the truth and will decide for themself how to handle that face chat with their respected dad.

Im defence of the women I know who refused to speak of the child father's name, one dad kick her down the stairs when she was pregant so she can lose the child, and the other was beaten and raped by her boyfriend few times.....I can understand why they do not want the child to know these things, it was hard for them to remember the past...but that what it is..the past.

And if the dad already had 9 kids.... then why is this new mother having his 10'th kid...

You are proving my point when I say you spend too much time talking to women when you should be just sitting back and observing the situation. You're blaming the dad and the mother has no responsibility whatsoever...

There are "tons" of women out there who do "stupid" things and expect men to "pay" for it..... and when they don't .... they just wanna sit back and "bitch" about it....

Take some advice.... stay away from the babysmamadrama.... Its not healthy for the kids... and its not healthy for you.

If a man already has 5 kids.... then its shere stupidity for the woman to have another one of his kids.....Its just plain ol stupid .... no "if's, ands or buts about it.... Stupid is as stupid does....
 
bromack1 said:
And if the dad already had 9 kids.... then why is this new mother having his 10'th kid...

You are proving my point when I say you spend too much time talking to women when you should be just sitting back and observing the situation. You're blaming the dad and the mother has no responsibility whatsoever...

There are "tons" of women out there who do "stupid" things and expect men to "pay" for it..... and when they don't .... they just wanna sit back and "bitch" about it....

Take some advice.... stay away from the babysmamadrama.... Its not healthy for the kids... and its not healthy for you.

If a man already has 5 kids.... then its shere stupidity for the woman to have another one of his kids.....Its just plain ol stupid .... no "if's, ands or buts about it.... Stupid is as stupid does....

To set the record staight, the child was his first that I know...after her came 9+ others. It had nothing to do with baby mother drama, it was two kids talking among themself wondering where daddy was. How can you blame the mom for not having responsilbity when she raised the child on her own? Maybe she was stupid in having his child, but the reality is there is a child and that child is asking questions.
 
bromack1 said:
And if the dad already had 9 kids.... then why is this new mother having his 10'th kid...

You are proving my point when I say you spend too much time talking to women when you should be just sitting back and observing the situation. You're blaming the dad and the mother has no responsibility whatsoever...

There are "tons" of women out there who do "stupid" things and expect men to "pay" for it..... and when they don't .... they just wanna sit back and "bitch" about it....

Take some advice.... stay away from the babysmamadrama.... Its not healthy for the kids... and its not healthy for you.

If a man already has 5 kids.... then its shere stupidity for the woman to have another one of his kids.....Its just plain ol stupid .... no "if's, ands or buts about it.... Stupid is as stupid does....

And I do agree with your points too. :D
 
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