‘Black Panther’ Is Not the Movie We Deserve (Colin Warning..No Porn)

[grownazzblakman]

And another thing I want to point out, in your little Wakanda vs everybody scenario, who is King? I'm thinking it would have to be Killmonger correct?

If that's the case, you really think Shuri and her team gonna work for him?

Incorrect. More like 'in your scenario'... you assumed Killmonger would be King.

Killmonger is dead. HOW could he be the King?

I'll give you ONE GUESS who 'would' be the King... Just one.

 

[geechiedan]

Or he's got shit-tons of Vibranium Technology & Super-Weapons at his disposal.... that can put 'whole Armies' to sleep.

Nah bruh, you just 'moved the goalposts'.

Scroll up.

The original debate was... the whole world was gonna SEND THEIR ARMIES at Wakanda... once they found out about Vibranium.

Not... Wakanda is planning to SEND THEIR OWN ARMY OUT 'to try to take over the world'.

There's a big difference between 'antagonizing'.... and 'defending'.

You think Captain America is gonna be all 'gung ho' to run up into Wakanda.... when they haven't 'done anything' at all... and was just minding their business? Not at all.

Especially when they have been SITTING on Vibranium for THOUSANDS of year... and NEVER tried to 'take over the globe' before today.

They could have taken over the whole planet... 200 years ago. Or more.

So yes, I think the Avengers probably WOULD sit that fight out.
Along with Professor X... and many others. (I even listed the 'reasons why'. )

Have a good night, sir.

dude you keep thinking its going to be a straight up fight when many of the countries in africa were conquered thru deceit, subterfuge and in-fighting remember the other countries in africa may not be happy about wakanda hording something that could have broken the imperialists and colonizers grip decades if not centuries ago.

Remember there was a reason they cloaked the country rather than openly declare they had something valuable and daring the world to take it.

 

[grownazzblakman]

dude you keep thinking its going to be a straight up fight when many of the countries in africa were conquered thru deceit, subterfuge and in-fighting remember the other countries in africa may not be happy about wakanda hording something that could have broken the imperialists and colonizers grip decades if not centuries ago.

Remember there was a reason they cloaked the country rather than openly declare they had something valuable and daring the world to take it.

And you keep thinking.... Wakanda is a 'real place'.
You are applying 'real world' politics, situations & circumstances.... to a (fictional) 'comic book book scenario'.

If some folks are not happy.... So what?
What are they gonna DO about it? Go to War? Take over?

Or will they just take the technology.... learn to use it... and 'start a new chapter'?

What would YOU do? Harbor ill feelings? Or 'move forward'? or BOTH?
You gonna 'pull up' on T'Challa? Try to 'catch him in traffic'?

 

[spider705]

Mmmaaaaannn I'm thru.

Just completely forgot about half the Avengers (Team Stark) working with the government after signing those papers, so they're likely getting sent off to fight.

Then we're supposed to believe that while America is getting it's ass handed to them CAPTAIN FUCKIN AMERICA is gonna be like "nah fam this not my fight....they got Bucky... I'm good."

I quit. You win, brotha...

 

[geechiedan]

And you keep thinking.... Wakanda is a 'real place'.
You are applying 'real world' politics, situations & circumstances.... to a (fictional) 'comic book book scenario'.

If some folks are not happy.... So what?
What are they gonna DO about it? Go to War? Take over?

Or will they just take the technology.... learn to use it... and 'start a new chapter'?

What would YOU do? Harbor ill feelings? Or 'move forward'? or BOTH?
You gonna 'pull up' on T'Challa? Try to 'catch him in traffic'?

actually Ryan Coogler applied 'real world' politics, situations & circumstances.... to a (fictional) 'comic book book scenario'.

You don't talk about slavery and colonizing and show the emotions and effects of those things then when scenarios are put forth about how the world works both IRT and in fiction go SIKE its all a gag

AGAIN THERES A REASON WAKANDA CHOOSE TO CLOAK THE COUNTRY RATHER THAN STAND AND FIGHT ON WHAT THEY HAVE...its a MAJOR part of the story that you keep overlooking.

 

[grownazzblakman]

Mmmaaaaannn I'm thru.

Just completely forgot about half the Avengers (Team Stark) working with the government after signing those papers, so they're likely getting sent off to fight.

Then we're supposed to believe that while America is getting it's ass handed to them CAPTAIN FUCKIN AMERICA is gonna be like "nah fam this not my fight....they got Bucky... I'm good."

I quit. You win, brotha...

Watch the clip again.



Some of the Avengers signed the Sokovia Accords because they were dealing with GLOBAL THREATS.
Not peaceful sovereign nations.

And they agreed to have some 'oversight'... when dealing with those THREATS.

Nobody ever agreed to literally be 'used as a Government Weapon'... against peaceful sovereign nations.

That's the difference.

In order for your scenario to even 'play out' they way you want it to.... FIRST.... Wakanda has to 'start invading' neighboring countries .... which they have NEVER done.

So no, Captain Fucking America is NOT running out to invade Wakanda. For no reason at all.
Why would he? Especially if they are not a THREAT?

Ever notice... Captain America always questions the 'reasons' of his superiors?
And if he doesn't like their answers... he does not do 'whatever' they want. Just because they 'said so'.

Skip to the 0:50 second mark. And Listen closely to what Cap says in Avengers: Age of Ultron.



Now pay close attention to the 3:30 mark. Listen to what he says in Winter Soldier.

Nick Fury says: "We're gonna neutralize alot of threats BEFORE they happen"
Captain America responds: "I thought the punishment usually came AFTER the crime."



So if Wakanda does NOT attack anyone first... then they have to be considered a 'threat' that might attack.
Somebody would have to convince Captain America that the USA needs to attack Wakanda... BEFORE Wakanda attacks them.

But Nick Fury ALREADY tried that whole (we need to attack them before they attack us) angle with him.
And what happened? Captain America destroyed SHIELD and all of those Heli-Carriers... in response.

He tore the WHOLE FUCKING PLACE down. Literally. Left Nick Fury homeless.
Fury was living out of a Portable Storage Pod at the end of the movie. Literally. Completely Off the grid.

C'mon, bruh.

Does that sound like a dude who's just gonna run out to 'invade' a peaceful sovereign nation??
And if he DOES... do you think it will 'go down' the way the Government wants it to?

 

[grownazzblakman]

actually Ryan Coogler applied 'real world' politics, situations & circumstances.... to a (fictional) 'comic book book scenario'.

You don't talk about slavery and colonizing and show the emotions and effects of those things then when scenarios are put forth about how the world works both IRT and in fiction go SIKE its all a gag

AGAIN THERES A REASON WAKANDA CHOOSE TO CLOAK THE COUNTRY RATHER THAN STAND AND FIGHT ON WHAT THEY HAVE...its a MAJOR part of the story that you keep overlooking.

Wakanda chose to cloak the country.... so they DID NOT have to fight ANY WARS. With Outsiders.
And also so they did NOT get colonized. By Outsiders.

That way.... they could focus on their own INFRASTRUCTURE.
And Education. And Science. And Medicine. And Technology.
And focus on 'building up' their own country. From within.

I never ignored any of that. What tf are you talking about?

They are so far 'ahead of the game'... that's exactly WHY outside Armies would LOSE BADLY in ANY war fought on Wakandan Soil.

In fact... they are so BADASS that THANOS himself gotta bring his whole Army to fight in Wakanda.

And by the looks of the trailer... it won't 'be a cakewalk' for him either.



Klaw & Killmonger are the only 2 'outsiders' who have been INSIDE Wakanda.. for any extended period of time.

But somehow you believe that Wakanda would tear itself apart... without ANY real communication whatsoever from the outside world.

You think the 'War Dogs' are gonna come back to Wakanda... and weaken the WHOLE country from the inside somehow?
Especially after what Killmonger just did?? C'mon bruh.

LOOK AT THE TRAILER AGAIN!!! They about to fight THANOS, dawg. He's about to 'get these hands'. In Wakanda.
But somehow... they should REALLY be worried about the 'other armies' on planet Earth, huh? C'mon bruh.

Ya'll cannot be serious. I'm done here.

 

[geechiedan]

Wakanda chose to cloak the country.... so they DID NOT have to fight ANY WARS. With Outsiders.
And also so they did NOT get colonized. By Outsiders.

That way.... they could focus on their own INFRASTRUCTURE.
And Education. And Science. And Medicine. And Technology.
And focus on 'building up' their own country. From within.

I never ignored any of that. What tf are you talking about?

They are so far 'ahead of the game'... that's exactly WHY outside Armies would LOSE BADLY in ANY war fought on Wakandan Soil.

In fact... they are so BADASS that THANOS himself gotta bring his whole Army to fight in Wakanda.

And by the looks of the trailer... it won't 'be a cakewalk' for him either.



Klaw & Killmonger are the only 2 'outsiders' who have been INSIDE Wakanda.. for any extended period of time.

But somehow you believe that Wakanda would tear itself apart... without ANY real communication whatsoever from the outside world.

You think the 'War Dogs' are gonna come back to Wakanda... and weaken the WHOLE country from the inside somehow?
Especially after what Killmonger just did?? C'mon bruh.

LOOK AT THE TRAILER AGAIN!!! They about to fight THANOS, dawg. He's about to 'get these hands'. In Wakanda.
But somehow... they should REALLY be worried about the 'other armies' on planet Earth, huh? C'mon bruh.

Ya'll cannot be serious. I'm done here.

see heres the problem with introducing real issue in a fictional story... in a world where wakanda and vibranium, capt america. the avengers and mutants exist why does racism and european hegemony still exists?

You can't rattle off a list of all those heroes and then say wakanda is unbeatable when theyve been hiding from the world..the only possible logical reasons for that is:

1. they don't give a shit
2. they're a bunch of cowards and small thinking people
3. racism and all the negative isms and issues are so endemic to human behavior and action that even superpowered beings and advanced tech can't defeat it.

500 years into european hegemony, 250 years into the US treatment of blacks and only NOW does wakanda grows some balls BUT in a particular way as to not upset the status quo too much.

So given how the Black Panther exists in a world of racism and other crimes against humanity (in fact its even MORE grounded in it than all the other characters in the marvel universe films or comics) and wakanda chose to hide itself away from those real acts of colonization and imperialism...you can only extrapolate from that they are NOT 100% infallible and taking on the world would only result in the destruction of the country.

you can't have it both ways..

 

[grownazzblakman]

see heres the problem with introducing real issue in a fictional story... in a world where wakanda and vibranium, capt america. the avengers and mutants exist why does racism and european hegemony still exists?

You can't rattle off a list of all those heroes and then say wakanda is unbeatable when theyve been hiding from the world..the only possible logical reasons for that is:

1. they don't give a shit
2. they're a bunch of cowards and small thinking people
3. racism and all the negative isms and issues are so endemic to human behavior and action that even superpowered beings and advanced tech can't defeat it.

500 years into european hegemony, 250 years into the US treatment of blacks and only NOW does wakanda grows some balls BUT in a particular way as to not upset the status quo too much.

So given how the Black Panther exists in a world of racism and other crimes against humanity (in fact its even MORE grounded in it than all the other characters in the marvel universe films or comics) and wakanda choose to hide itself away from those real acts of colonization and imperialism...you can only extrapolate from that they are NOT 100% infallible and taking on the world would only result in the destruction of the country.

you can't have it both ways..

Translation = I don’t think THANOS is stronger than all of the Armies of the World. Even with an Infinity Gauntlet. Wakanda has to lose to somebody. Either Racism, or the combined might of every nation. Or internal strife. They cannot be that powerful. That’s not fair.

 

[geechiedan]

Translation = I don’t think THANOS is stronger than all of the Armies of the World. Even with an Infinity Gauntlet. Wakanda has to lose to somebody. Either Racism, or the combined might of every nation. Or internal strife. They cannot be that powerful. That’s not fair.

if you think thats what I'm saying...

The reality the story is set in that Stan lee and jack kirby created the character in..that ryan coogler built upon address REAL issues. And their resolution to how T'Challa and Wakanda deals with those REAL issues is quite frankly weak as fuck. If wakanda is as powerful and infallible as you claim them to be then Killmonger was the only realest mofo in the whole movie. He understood how the world works perfectly and everyone else including T'Challa was and is STILL half assing it.

 

[grownazzblakman]

if you think thats what I'm saying...

The reality the story is set in that Stan lee and jack kirby created the character in..that ryan coogler built upon address REAL issues. And their resolution to how T'Challa and Wakanda deals with those REAL issues is quite frankly weak as fuck. If wakanda is as powerful and infallible as you claim them to be then Killmonger was the only realest mofo in the whole movie. He understood how the world works perfectly and everyone else including T'Challa was and is STILL half assing it.

Wakanda is not infallible. I never said that.

What I said is that... "Someone would need a strong-ass TEAM of (Avengers-level) Superheroes to defeat them". Which is TRUE.

And this is even further evidenced by the fact that the BIGGEST battles in the upcoming movie with THANOS (who is one of the STRONGEST VILLAINS in the entire Marvel Universe) ... is being FOUGHT in Wakanda.

You think T'Challa resolution to REAL issues... is 'weak as fuck'.

You act as though it was T'Challa's decision 'not to give Vibranium weapons to other black folks around the globe'. It was not.
That was T'Chaka decision. And his failure. And the failure of his predecessors. And the movie 'addresses it'.

But the problem is, that's NOT HOW YOU wanted the movie to 'end'. Ummm... So what?
That's YOUR issue. Coogler decided to take a different route.

Some folks look at it like...

- They fought for the Throne.
- Ultimately, T'Challa defeated Killmonger.
- Then he gave him the OPTION to save his life.
- Killmonger refused. And chose to die instead.
- Because he didn't want to be imprisoned.

And at the end of the movie... T'Challa decided to EMPOWER Black folks. And EDUCATE them.
Not just... 'give out weapons'. To facilitate warfare.

He 'armed' Black folks with information, knowledge, technology, history, math & science... directly from Wakanda.
So they will never again feel 'disconnected' from Wakanda. Or their roots. (Which may reside in a different part of Africa.)

Nothing 'weak' about that.

Honestly, I think that's why you consider it 'weak as fuck'... because in a discussion about the STRENGTH of Wakanda... You keep CONFLATING 'fighting White Supremacy'... with 'Raw Military Power'.

You seem to think: Whoever is BETTER at fighting Racism... should be considered the STRONGEST.

Newsflash: Nelson Mandela fought Apartheid. For YEARS. But he could never beat Muhammad Ali in a 'fist fight'.

Because those are 2 different things.

So Killmonger 'understanding how the world works perfectly'... has absolutely nothing to do with the actual STRENGTH of Wakanda.
Killmonger BEAT T'Challa.. mainly because he is one a strong-ass Wakandan. And they are Badasses, in general.

- Does Killmonger understand how the world works? Yup.
- Is Killmonger BETTER at fighting Racism & White Supremacy? Yup.

However, White Supremacy has 'no power' AT ALL in a fictional country like Wakanda... because white people DO NOT control it.

So Killmonger is 'the realest mofo in the film'. True.
But Black Panther is one of 'the realest mofos'... in the entire Marvel Universe.

And so is Wakanda.

You might disagree with the 'politics' in Wakanda... and the 'isolationist position' that the Wakandan Elders took, in regards to the rest of the black community & slavery.....

But stop confusing that with their 'ability'. (i.e. their ability to DEFEAT others)

They're not cowards. Or Small thinkers.
And they are not struggling with "racism and all the negative isms and issues are so endemic to human behavior."
Those are YOUR personal hangups with 'the movie' itself.

Keep these in mind, whenever you think about The Black Panther / or Wakanda's 'ability', or 'power'...

 

[Man_Of_STeeL]

 

[Mr. Met]

 

[grownazzblakman]

 

[THE DRIZZY]

You think Wakanda could NOT defeat all the armies of the rest of the planet... that do NOT have Wakandan Technology? Or Vibranium?



Did you watch the BP movie?? Or the Civil War movie??

ALL GUNS & BULLETS are completely useless against those BIG-ASS Shields that their Vibranium Blankets create... plus Wakanda got ADVANCED EMP TECHNOLOGY to nullify 'long-range missiles' before they even land... but let's say even if a few missiles DID HIT any buildings in Wakanda... they are all BUILT WITH VIBRANIUM... So NOTHING is getting knocked down, or blown up.

Even ALL the clothing of the soldiers is made of Vibranium.

The Wakandan Soldiers don’t even need a LEGIT Black Panther suit for themselves. They could wear some ole mismatch ‘bootleg’ shit... and still put a ‘whole foot’ in yo’ ass.

All they have to do is wear a hoodie, some gloves, plus grab a BASIC 'ski mask' & a pair of cheap sunglasses from the nearest 'Wakanda $0.99 Cents Store'.... and you cannot shoot them down.



They could even be on the battlefield... wearing du-rags.... while dressed like Chris & Snoop... and STILL open countless delivery trucks, filled with 'kegs of whup-ass'.





You can't blow up their strategic military targets... nor their buildings... or their jets.... and you can't 'gun down' their footsoldiers.

All those armies wouldn’t even be able to ‘topple a single hut’... in Wakanda. Forget about any ‘fortified’ military targets.

Now what???



SSssshhhhhheeeiiiiittt.... Every Army Soldier in the world would have to ‘crouch down’ & HIDE behind Captain America's Shield.... just to stand a 'fighting chance'.



They don’t want no smoke... from Wakanda. Trust.

The only real threats to Wakanda are Atlantis(Namor) and Latveria(Dr. Doom)
Secondary threats would be SHIELD(UN Special Force Army) also Hydra and A.I.M.(international terrorist organizations)

 

[geechiedan]

Wakanda is not infallible. I never said that.

What I said is that... "Someone would need a strong-ass TEAM of (Avengers-level) Superheroes to defeat them". Which is TRUE.

And this is even further evidenced by the fact that the BIGGEST battles in the upcoming movie with THANOS (who is one of the STRONGEST VILLAINS in the entire Marvel Universe) ... is being FOUGHT in Wakanda.

You think T'Challa resolution to REAL issues... is 'weak as fuck'.

You act as though it was T'Challa's decision 'not to give Vibranium weapons to other black folks around the globe'. It was not.
That was T'Chaka decision. And his failure. And the failure of his predecessors. And the movie 'addresses it'.

But the problem is, that's NOT HOW YOU wanted the movie to 'end'. Ummm... So what?
That's YOUR issue. Coogler decided to take a different route.

Coogler took a route that was comfortable for his bosses, the OWNERS of that character and story. I agree with the IG post that if black people created and owned black panther things would be MUCH different in how that character and those stories go. We just recognise that compromises were made.

Some folks look at it like...

- They fought for the Throne.
- Ultimately, T'Challa defeated Killmonger.
- Then he gave him the OPTION to save his life.
- Killmonger refused. And chose to die instead.
- Because he didn't want to be imprisoned.

And at the end of the movie... T'Challa decided to EMPOWER Black folks. And EDUCATE them.
Not just... 'give out weapons'. To facilitate warfare.

Nothing 'weak' about that.

Honestly, I think that's why you consider it 'weak as fuck'... because in a discussion about the STRENGTH of Wakanda... You keep CONFLATING 'fighting White Supremacy'... with 'Raw Military Power'.

You seem to think: Whoever is BETTER at fighting Racism... should be considered the STRONGEST.

Newsflash: Nelson Mandela fought Apartheid. For YEARS. But he could never beat Muhammad Ali in a 'fist fight'.

Because those are 2 different things.

So Killmonger 'understanding how the world works perfectly'... has absolutely nothing to do with the actual STRENGTH of Wakanda.
Killmonger BEAT T'Challa.. mainly because he is one a strong-ass Wakandan. And they are Badasses, in general.

- Does Killmonger understand how the world works? Yup.
- Is Killmonger BETTER at fighting Racism & White Supremacy? Yup.

However, White Supremacy has 'no power' AT ALL in a fictional country like Wakanda... because white people DO NOT control it.

So Killmonger is 'the realest mofo in the film'. True.
But Black Panther is one of 'the realest mofos'... in the entire Marvel Universe.

And so is Wakanda.

Empowering oppressed people thru outreach and education is fine....but EVENTUALLY its going to come down to fight. To a POWER STRUGGLE.

Its the inevitable next step that when whites write stories about blacks or HIRE blacks to write stories about blacks they ALWAYS STOP SHORT OF...OR END WITH POWER-SHARING WITH THE "GOOD" WHITE PEOPLE. And if its a share with good white people then we end up using the system already in place which is basically european/white hegemony..you know since its a system we're all familiar with anyway and too much change too quickly is NEVER good (for whom is the question that no one ever asks).

Killmonger understood that whether its now or years from now it will eventually come down to a fight...Tchalla is still making compromises and half measures. Empowering blacks and oppressed peoples to work within a white hegemonic system is tantamount to moving a bird from a smaller cage to a slightly bigger cage.

On multiple occasions in the history of this character he's had to fight the KKK.... once again using a REAL historical thing for the backdrop of a fictional story.

Now here's the problem...WHERE THE FUCK WERE THE FANTASTIC 4, CAPTAIN AMERICA, THE AVENGERS OR THE X-MEN??

If theres ANYONE who needed avenging its black people in the south...prof X can use cerebro to locate mutants world wide but can't detect evil doers in his own fucking country

Homie..in the face of that shit I could really give a shit about thanos and the skrulls or AIM and how powerful they are blah blah blah...What makes it WORSE is that if confronting racism and terrorism head on didn't convince T'Chaka to do something more drastic then it illustrates why wakanda HID from white supremacy.

Like I said this is why youre slowly seeing debate and a soft backlash to the story...black people are happy to see a big budget black superhero movie doing great BO...but once the hype of that is over and you really think about the story and the implications of it... you end up like a cross between this and this.

You might disagree with the 'politics' in Wakanda... and the 'isolationist position' that the Wakandan Elders took, in regards to the rest of the black community & slavery.....

But stop confusing that with their 'ability'. (i.e. their ability to DEFEAT others)

They're not cowards. Or Small thinkers.
And they are not struggling with "racism and all the negative isms and issues are so endemic to human behavior."
Those are YOUR personal hangups with 'the movie' itself.

Keep these in mind, whenever you think about The Black Panther / or Wakanda's 'ability', or 'power'...

keep in mind..

SILENCE CONDONES

CHOOSING TO NOT TAKE A SIDE IN THE FACE OF OPPRESSION IS IN FACT CHOOSING A SIDE.....THE SIDE OF THE OPPRESSOR.

 

[grownazzblakman]

If theres ANYONE who needed avenging its black people in the south...prof X can use cerebro to locate mutants world wide but can't detect evil doers in his own fucking country

Umm... Did you know that Cerebro is a Mutant Detecting Computer?
Built specifically for TELEPATHS?

You seem to think that Cerebro is something it is not.

Nobody ever uses Cerebro to find Bank Robbers, Muggers, Petty Criminals, Racists, Cross Burners, White-Collar Crooks, Alt-Right Members, Shady Politicians, People who disenfranchise black folks at the ballot box, ... or Purse Snatchers.

Cerbro simply distinguishes between MUTANTS and HUMANS. Period. End of Story.

So your whole: "Why can't Prof X can use cerebro to locate / detect 'evil doers' in his own fucking country?"... line of thinking is totally absurd.

Homie..in the face of that shit I could really give a shit about thanos and the skrulls or AIM and how powerful they are blah blah blah...What makes it WORSE is that if confronting racism and terrorism head on didn't convince T'Chaka to do something more drastic then it illustrates why wakanda HID from white supremacy.

Again, you completely ignore the fact that... WHITE SUPREMACY IS NOT WAKANDA's PROBLEM.

You are just UPSET because Wakanda wasn't 'passing out Vibranium Gats' to every black person in the HOOD... by the end of the movie.

You are UPSET that Huey Newton's nephew DOES NOT write comic book stories... and he's not 'confronting racism' and 'fighting Whitey' in every single panel of artwork, from cover-to-cover.

Negro.... That is YOUR problem.
Those are the stories THAT YOU want to see.

Personally, I don't look to 'comic books' to solve these REAL ISSUES.
And I don't get upset 'when they do not go the extra mile' to tackle these subjects, either.

But apparently... YOU DO.

SILENCE CONDONES

CHOOSING TO NOT TAKE A SIDE IN THE FACE OF OPPRESSION IS IN FACT CHOOSING A SIDE.....THE SIDE OF THE OPPRESSOR.

T'Challa DID 'take a side'. But you IGNORED it.
Because it wasn't 'the same side' you WANTED them to take.

There are MANY different sides of the Black Struggle.

Seems, the 'only side' YOU are singularly focused on is.... 'achieving change & overcoming white oppression using violence'.

Because the Malcom X / Huey Newton path.... is the ONLY Option that will ever work, huh.

As if the 'militant part' of the legacy of Malcom X & Huey Newton.... should always COMPLETELY OUTWEIGH any & all non-violent choices of other Black Leaders like: Martin Luther King Jr., Septima Clark, Dorothy Height, The Freedom Riders, etc., etc.

T'Challa ultimately understood the 'pain' that Killmonger felt from being disconnected from his heritage... and the GREATEST GIFT that Wakandan Heritage can give to those who felt 'abandoned' was.... KNOWLEDGE & EMPOWERMENT.

He chose an approach that you don't agree with. TOO BAD, Bro. Deal with it.

T'Challa chose to 'heal the wounds' of abandonment... but you wanted him to 'take over the globe from the White man', instead. I get it.

Tell you what, go pass out some Vibranium Gats to the Bloods & Crips. In Watts. Or locked up in Jail.

Holla back when 'Pookie Robertson' INSTANTLY forgives 'Rollo Jenkins' for killing his cousin last year, in a drive-by shooting... and they suddenly 'team-up' & run off to go fight White Supremacy.

Because ALL will be forgiven... as soon as they get their hands on some Vibranium.
No need to 'educate' them. Or give them any 'knowledge of self'. Just give 'em a Vibranium Gat.

That will solve all of their problems. Sure it will.

Killmonger understood that whether its now or years from now it will eventually come down to a fight...Tchalla is still making compromises and half measures. Empowering blacks and oppressed peoples to work within a white hegemonic system is tantamount to moving a bird from a smaller cage to a slightly bigger cage.

Right, because 'progress' ONLY happens after a WAR.... It can NEVER happen ANY OTHER possible way. Sure, I get it.

Just like the system of Apartheid LEGALLY ended & Democratic Elections started... right after the 'Battle of Capetown' was over, huh. Since he 'couldn't see the world' the way Killmonger did.... Guess Nelson Mandela had NOTHING to do with it, right?

Just like 'The Big Ass Wall' was destroyed... right after the 'Battle of Berlin' ended and they signed that 'peace treaty', huh.

Just like India gained their Independence.... right after that notorious 'Battle with Britain' that we all read about in History books... WITHOUT requiring anything from Ghandi himself, huh. (Because all those East Indians told him: "Step Aside Mahatma, We got this!! We GOTTA BLAST our way to Freedom from the White Man!!" )

Yup, there's NO OTHER POSSIBLE WAY to achieve progress.
It will always eventually come down to a FIGHT.

Everything else is a half-measure.

Sure, I hear ya bro.

 

[geechiedan]

Umm... Did you know that Cerebro is a Mutant Detecting Computer?
Built specifically for TELEPATHS?

You seem to think that Cerebro is something it is not.

Nobody ever uses Cerebro to find Bank Robbers, Muggers, Petty Criminals, Racists, Cross Burners, White-Collar Crooks, Alt-Right Members, Shady Politicians, People who disenfranchise black folks at the ballot box, ... or Purse Snatchers.

Cerbro simply distinguishes between MUTANTS and HUMANS. Period. End of Story.

So your whole: "Why can't Prof X can use cerebro to locate / detect 'evil doers' in his own fucking country?"... line of thinking is totally absurd.

Dude you skipped over all those heroes listed just to nitpick on what the computer of the most powerful telepath on the planet does.. meanwhile capt america, the avengers and the fantastic 4 apparently IGNORED a horrible condition happening in a whole region of the country.. A condition that only the ONE black hero in the whole marvel universe just happen to stumble across guess they were too busy waiting for galactus to show up

Again, you completely ignore the fact that... WHITE SUPREMACY IS NOT WAKANDA's PROBLEM.

You are just UPSET because Wakanda wasn't 'passing out Vibranium Gats' to every black person in the HOOD... by the end of the movie.

You are UPSET that Huey Newton's nephew DOES NOT write comic book stories... and he's not 'confronting racism' and 'fighting Whitey' in every single panel of artwork, from cover-to-cover.

Negro.... That is YOUR problem.
Those are the stories THAT YOU want to see.

Personally, I don't look to 'comic books' to solve these REAL ISSUES.
And I don't get upset 'when they do not go the extra mile' to tackle these subjects, either.

But apparently... YOU DO.

No YOU forget they hid the whole GODDAMN COUNTRY specifically to avoid imperialism and colonialism (aka white supremacy) they were very aware of the issue and choose to HIDE from it.
An no one is upset just pointing out the compromise and halfassness of the resolution thats all

T'Challa DID 'take a side'. But you IGNORED it.
Because it wasn't 'the same side' you WANTED them to take.

There are MANY different sides of the Black Struggle.

Seems, the 'only side' YOU are singularly focused on is.... 'achieving change & overcoming white oppression using violence'.

Because the Malcom X / Huey Newton path.... is the ONLY Option that will ever work, huh.

As if the 'militant part' of the legacy of Malcom X & Huey Newton.... should always COMPLETELY OUTWEIGH any & all non-violent choices of other Black Leaders like: Martin Luther King Jr., Septima Clark, Dorothy Height, The Freedom Riders, etc., etc.

T'Challa ultimately understood the 'pain' that Killmonger felt from being disconnected from his heritage... and the GREATEST GIFT that Wakandan Heritage can give to those who felt 'abandoned' was.... KNOWLEDGE & EMPOWERMENT.

He chose an approach that you don't agree with. TOO BAD, Bro. Deal with it.

T'Challa chose to 'heal the wounds' of abandonment... but you wanted him to 'take over the globe from the White man', instead. I get it.

Tell you what, go pass out some Vibranium Gats to the Bloods & Crips. In Watts. Or locked up in Jail.

Holla back when 'Pookie Robertson' INSTANTLY forgives 'Rollo Jenkins' for killing his cousin last year, in a drive-by shooting... and they suddenly 'team-up' & run off to go fight White Supremacy.

Because ALL will be forgiven... as soon as they get their hands on some Vibranium.
No need to 'educate' them. Or give them any 'knowledge of self'. Just give 'em a Vibranium Gat.

That will solve all of their problems. Sure it will.

theres only two sides to any struggle. And Malcolm X and Newton espoused DEFENDING themselves from violence...not taking ass whooping after asswhooping in the hopes the person doing it will feel guilty and stop. Or did you forget that Mr Nonviolence MLK got his head blown off...and that 4 little girls got blown up while in sunday school.

Right, because 'progress' ONLY happens after a WAR.... It can NEVER happen ANY OTHER possible way. Sure, I get it.

Just like the system of Apartheid LEGALLY ended & Democratic Elections started... right after the 'Battle of Capetown' was over, huh. Since he 'couldn't see the world' the way Killmonger did.... Guess Nelson Mandela had NOTHING to do with it, right?

Just like 'The Big Ass Wall' was destroyed... right after the 'Battle of Berlin' ended and they signed that 'peace treaty', huh.

Just like India gained their Independence.... right after that notorious 'Battle with Britain' that we all read about in History books... WITHOUT requiring anything from Ghandi himself, huh. (Because all those East Indians told him: "Step Aside Mahatma, We got this!! We GOTTA BLAST our way to Freedom from the White Man!!" )

Yup, there's NO OTHER POSSIBLE WAY to achieve progress.
It will always eventually come down to a FIGHT.

Everything else is a half-measure.

Sure, I hear ya bro.

In south africa the whites still hold the economic purse strings for the most part. White people in South Africa still hold the lion’s share of all forms of capita

The Indian struggle for independence from british rule began around 1857 and lasted almost 100 years. in that time there MANY revolts and gandhi's contribution is just a small part of a larger set of circumstances that ended with independence...mainly WW2 weakened the british empire substantially:

The Second World War had reduced the economic, political, and military strength of the British Empire. They were also aware that after the war Indians would begin a larger movement for independence. The mood of the British people and the British Army had also changed. After the Second World War, most of them were no longer willing to support the British ruling class in India. That position was now clear to the leaders of the United Kingdom. By early 1946, those leaders set free all the political prisoners held in India and opened independence discussions with the Indian National Congress Party. On the 14th of August 1947 Pakistan gained independence and a day later on the 15th of August India gained its independence as well.

About the Berlin Wall...came down after decades of cold war maneuvers that included the US facing off with USSR in the cuban missile crisis...The bay of pigs...and proxy wars in Vietnam in the 60s and Afghanistan in the 80s.. along with other issues the campaign of those things essentially weakened russia enough to get movement on the wall. But thru it all blood was shed and lot of it..just not directly between the US and russia.

In all of these examples you cited violence plays a pretty big role in some form. You and T'Challa just espouse taking an asswhooping rather than fight back thats all.

 

[grownazzblakman]

Dude you skipped over all those heroes listed just to nitpick on what the computer of the most powerful telepath on the planet does.. meanwhile capt america, the avengers and the fantastic 4 apparently IGNORED a horrible condition happening in a whole region of the country.. A condition that only the ONE black hero in the whole marvel universe just happen to stumble across guess they were too busy waiting for galactus to show up

There are 'horrible conditions' that happen to everyone... in various 'regions of the country'... and all over the Marvel Universe.

Does Capt America, the Avengers and the Fantastic 4 get off their ass... to fight 'Poverty' in Bangladesh?
Does Capt America, the Avengers and the Fantastic 4 get off their ass... to stop 'forced child labor' in China?
Does Capt America, the Avengers and the Fantastic 4 get off their ass... to stop 'wage inequalities for women' in Mexico?
Does Capt America, the Avengers and the Fantastic 4 get off their ass... to provide 'Universal Access to Healthcare' in the USA?
Does Capt America, the Avengers and the Fantastic 4 get off their ass... to fist-fight Senators for 'Tougher Gun Laws' in the USA?

No. They do not.

You expect Superheroes to fight 'Social Injustice Issues'... instead of Super-Powered Beings & Evil Meglomaniacs.

See, when the Avengers fly off to Sokovia to fight Ultron... you ain't got no problem with that at all. You mad quiet.
But, when the Avengers don't do anything to topple White Supremacy & improve the Black Community... NOW it's a problem.

Sure, I get it.

No YOU forget they hid the whole GODDAMN COUNTRY specifically to avoid imperialism and colonialism (aka white supremacy) they were very aware of the issue and choose to HIDE from it.
An no one is upset just pointing out the compromise and halfassness of the resolution thats all

You still don't get it.




In the first video.. pay close attention to the first 20 seconds. Especially this text: "10,000 years ago."

10,000 years ago, bruh... THERE WAS NO 'WHITE SUPREMACY' IN AFRICA.
So your 'interpretation' of why Wakanda chose to HIDE FROM 'White Supremacy' is very misleading.

They chose to camouflage the country .... 'To protect their Vibranium'. Point. Blank. Period.

Yes, there IS a difference.

The Wakandan Elders (i.e. Bashenga & The original King T'Chaka) knew that the rare Vibranium would bring Wakanda MANY enemies.
Not just 'white supremacists' & 'colonizers'... but other African Nations, as well. And Asians. And East Indians.

Pretty much ANYONE who wanted some Vibranium... and wanted to 'take it by force'.
They were not EXCLUSIVELY hiding from 'White Supremacists'.

THAT's the whole point that just doesn't 'sink in' with you.

And that's because....

You expect Superheroes to fight 'Social Injustice Issues'... instead of Super-Powered Beings & Evil Meglomaniacs.

theres only two sides to any struggle. And Malcolm X and Newton espoused DEFENDING themselves from violence...not taking ass whooping after asswhooping in the hopes the person doing it will feel guilty and stop. Or did you forget that Mr Nonviolence MLK got his head blown off...and that 4 little girls got blown up while in sunday school.

You're moving the goalposts.
The original debate that you chimed into... was about 'the strength of Wakanda' and 'who could defeat them'.

Now you are arguing about black folks DEFENDING themselves from violence of White Supremacy.
You are very faaar off the topic.

And you are discussing all kinds stuff to SUPPORT your disappointed feelings about T'Challa/Wakanda's... perceived 'weakness'.

You continue to press various arguments about Malcom X & Huey Newton and MLK getting his head blown off... and 4 Little Girls... because you expect Superheroes to fight 'Social Injustice Issues'... instead of Super-Powered Beings & Evil Meglomaniacs.

You wanted The Black Panther to 'Fight Whitey'.... and 'Take it to the Man'.
Stop watching Comic Book Movies.

Your expectations are waaaaay off base.

In south africa the whites still hold the economic purse strings for the most part. White people in South Africa still hold the lion’s share of all forms of capita

The Indian struggle for independence from british rule began around 1857 and lasted almost 100 years. in that time there MANY revolts and gandhi's contribution is just a small part of a larger set of circumstances that ended with independence...mainly WW2 weakened the british empire substantially:

The Second World War had reduced the economic, political, and military strength of the British Empire. They were also aware that after the war Indians would begin a larger movement for independence. The mood of the British people and the British Army had also changed. After the Second World War, most of them were no longer willing to support the British ruling class in India. That position was now clear to the leaders of the United Kingdom. By early 1946, those leaders set free all the political prisoners held in India and opened independence discussions with the Indian National Congress Party. On the 14th of August 1947 Pakistan gained independence and a day later on the 15th of August India gained its independence as well.

About the Berlin Wall...came down after decades of cold war maneuvers that included the US facing off with USSR in the cuban missile crisis...The bay of pigs...and proxy wars in Vietnam in the 60s and Afghanistan in the 80s.. along with other issues the campaign of those things essentially weakened russia enough to get movement on the wall. But thru it all blood was shed and lot of it..just not directly between the US and russia.

In all of these examples you cited violence plays a pretty big role in some form. You and T'Challa just espouse taking an asswhooping rather than fight back thats all.

In all of these examples you have cited... you highlighted the violence & tremendously 'downplayed' the achievements of the non-violent aspects of 'progress'. For every SINGLE violent battle/conflict you have mentioned... there were THOUSANDS MORE 'non-violent' protests & displays of 'civil disobedience' which you completely ignored.

The violence ALONE never solved ANY of those events.
That's exactly WHY I mentioned them.

You claim that: "Me and T'Challa just espouse taking an asswhooping rather than fight back".

Highly Incorrect.

The correct answer is..... I don't expect Superheroes to fight various 'Social Injustice Issues'... instead of Super-Powered Beings & Evil Meglomaniacs.

 

[geechiedan]

The correct answer is..... I don't expect Superheroes to fight various 'Social Injustice Issues'... instead of Super-Powered Beings & Evil Meglomaniacs.

the only problem with this is...while all the other heroes are fighting Super-Powered Beings & Evil Meglomaniacs. T'Challa was busy fighting racist rednecks in alabama...and damn near losing

guess he didn't get the memo he should be ignoring that and fighting the silver surfer

 

[grownazzblakman]

the only problem with this is...while all the other heroes are fighting Super-Powered Beings & Evil Meglomaniacs. T'Challa was busy fighting racist rednecks in alabama...and damn near losing

guess he didn't get the memo he should be ignoring that and fighting the silver surfer

And the only problem with using this to SUPPORT your argument... is WHAT YOU DID NOT KNOW about this....

- Black Panther DID NOT go down south... with the intentions of fighting the KKK.
- He went down south to attend the funeral of the sister of his (then) girlfriend Monica Lynne.
- Angela Lynne had committed suicide... under suspicious circumstances.
- And it turned out... that she was MURDERED by some Klansmen.

- If Angela was killed by some NINJAS... then Black Panther would have been 'down south' fighting 'The Hand'... instead of the Klan.

- There was a whole 'side-story' that involved a Super-Powered Klan Villain, called the Soul-Strangler.

- AND THAT WHOLE (KLAN) STORYLINE WAS COMPLETELY ABANDONED BEFORE IT WAS EVER COMPLETED.
- AND 'JUNGLE ACTION' TITLES WENT DEFUNCT... RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS STORYLINE .
- BECAUSE IT WAS THE 'WORST-SELLING' STORY ARC FOR THE BLACK PANTHER.

But here's the kicker....

- The guys in white robes were actually a group called the 'Dragons Circle'.... disguised as the KKK... and NOT the actual Klan. (Look at the pic you posted. Notice the Circles on their Chest )

Here's another pic of the Dragon's Circle....

Now Let's recap.....

There was NO resolution to Racism.
Black Panther NEVER PUT A DENT in Racism in the deep south.

If you thought 'the BP movie' didn't address Racism & White Supremacy properly... THIS COMIC STORYLINE DID EVEN LESS.

But the cover is DECEPTIVE.

If it was soooooo important for Black Panther to fight the Klan... why didn't any of the Black Writers who penned stories for the Black Panther attempt to ever continue this storyline, somehow???

- Not Reggie Hudlin. Not Te-Nehisi Coates. Not Christopher Priest.

Guess YOU did not 'get the memo' that NOBODY wanted to see Superheroes fight these 'Social Injustice Issues'... instead of Super-Powered Beings & Evil Meglomaniacs.

Because, YES .... Everyone WAS waiting for Silver Surfer & Galactus to show up.

 

[Big Tex]

Damn, son in here typing novels with bold type, red type and emojis.

 

[HAR125LEM]

Reading all the debates in this thread has been involving to say the least.

But let me get this out of the way here..

Comics have always involved real world scenarios to their Characters. But that has always be dependent on the Writers and Editors willing to take chances. And when they did, it tended to be more metaphorical than blatant.

When Done McGregor wrote the character in the 70s and 80s, he did keep Black Panther's actions more domestic. That's not a slam in his work. Because I always loved how McGregor tried to make T'Challa above B-level.

But it wasn't until Christopher Priest took over the character that T'Challa became a Power Player in the MARVEL Universe. And Priest infused Real World issues and scenarios not only on a domestic scale, but international one as well. Priest gave BP major swag. And Wakanda became important on a major scale. Those changes also extended to other books. Especially "CAPTAIN AMERICA" and "THE AVENGERS". Vibranum for the former, the revelation that T'Challa entire time in the latter was to spy on them in case The Avengers ever became a threat to him and his nation.

Yeah. Comic Books are Fantasy. But they're also a Pop Culture medium. So Real World politics can apply.

 

[Capo]

The reality is that as long as we use their characters and funding, there is always going to be some bullshit. Hopefully someone will make a real black superhero movie where nothing is controlled by white people.

 

[geechiedan]

And the only problem with using this to SUPPORT your argument... is WHAT YOU DID NOT KNOW about this....

- Black Panther DID NOT go down south... with the intentions of fighting the KKK.
- He went down south to attend the funeral of the sister of his (then) girlfriend Monica Lynne.
- Angela Lynne had committed suicide... under suspicious circumstances.
- And it turned out... that she was MURDERED by some Klansmen.

- If Angela was killed by some NINJAS... then Black Panther would have been 'down south' fighting 'The Hand'... instead of the Klan.

- There was a whole 'side-story' that involved a Super-Powered Klan Villain, called the Soul-Strangler.

- AND THAT WHOLE (KLAN) STORYLINE WAS COMPLETELY ABANDONED BEFORE IT WAS EVER COMPLETED.
- AND 'JUNGLE ACTION' TITLES WENT DEFUNCT... RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS STORYLINE .
- BECAUSE IT WAS THE 'WORST-SELLING' STORY ARC FOR THE BLACK PANTHER.

But here's the kicker....

- The guys in white robes were actually a group called the 'Dragons Circle'.... disguised as the KKK... and NOT the actual Klan. (Look at the pic you posted. Notice the Circles on their Chest )

Here's another pic of the Dragon's Circle....

Now Let's recap.....

There was NO resolution to Racism.
Black Panther NEVER PUT A DENT in Racism in the deep south.

If you thought 'the BP movie' didn't address Racism & White Supremacy properly... THIS COMIC STORYLINE DID EVEN LESS.

But the cover is DECEPTIVE.

If it was soooooo important for Black Panther to fight the Klan... why didn't any of the Black Writers who penned stories for the Black Panther attempt to ever continue this storyline???

- Not Reggie Hudlin. Not Te-Nehisi Coates. Not Christopher Priest.

Guess YOU did not 'get the memo' that NOBODY wanted to see Superheroes fight these 'Social Injustice Issues'... instead of Super-Powered Beings & Evil Meglomaniacs.

Because, YES .... Everyone WAS waiting for Silver Surfer & Galactus to show up.

blah blah blah...it doesn't matter it was low selling or cut mid story...they did it and its a part of the lore of the character..also over the course of the story, T’Challa fights both a group of Klan imitators and members of the actual Ku Klux Klan. we see black heroes standing up against avatars of structural oppression who terrorize black communities. Hell theres an issue where TChalla fights APARTHIED in a fictional version of South Africa..

A 1988 miniseries by Peter B. Gillis and Denys Cowan bucked that trend and pit the Panther against apartheid once more. This story saw the Panther God severing its link with T’Challa because of the king’s inaction against the racist oppression in Azania. This fictional country was another thinly-veiled version of South Africa, one that had its own superheroes.

wait..is that yet another story that deals with social injustice???

And was the core of the movie's plot about.... social injustice??? ryan coogler is black and his take on black panther is now more mainstream and in line with those past attempts than anything

this track got started when I said that it was naive and a plothole for tchalla to allow a CIA agent access to their tech...

you said it didn't matter since wakanda can beat any and all human armies on the planet.

my contention is if thats the case and has been the wtf are they hiding for...why install spies all over the world if youre going to allow an outsider spy access to your shit. Why because he took a bullet for your ex girlfriend? well thanx for that and we'll that fix up BUT you have to sit in this nondescript cell while your here...now THATS a logical approach to that situation that makes since on why all the black panthers have been BATMAN LEVEL PARANOID about outsiders discovering their shit all these centuries.

But they didn't do that because there was a MANDATE to show a nice/good white person in a story where the only other white person is a racist asshole. So they had to balance that out.

And youve been trying to justify that plothole and why wakanda doesn't have to be paranoid and hidden since..

 

[Mr. Met]

This chick gets it.

 

[grownazzblakman]

blah blah blah...it doesn't matter it was low selling or cut mid story...they did it and its a part of the lore of the character..also over the course of the story, T’Challa fights both a group of Klan imitators and members of the actual Ku Klux Klan. we see black heroes standing up against avatars of structural oppression who terrorize black communities. Hell theres an issue where TChalla fights APARTHIED in a fictional version of South Africa..

"We see black heroes standing up against avatars of structural oppression who terrorize black communities."

That's not Black Panther's PRIMARY FOCUS.

That's the part that doesn't sink in, for you.
Black Panther is not out there 'Fighting Whitey' in every issue.

Just because it happened ONCE... does not necessarily mean it should translate over into the first movie.

Seems like your thinking is...
- "If Black Panther once fought the KKK.... then T'Chaka/Wakanda shouldn't hide from White Supremacy."
- "If he fights the avatars of structural oppression... then Wakanda should be vulnerable to the endemic problems that plagued Africa"
- "Why don't the Avengers help out. This is some bullshit.'

A 1988 miniseries by Peter B. Gillis and Denys Cowan bucked that trend and pit the Panther against apartheid once more. This story saw the Panther God severing its link with T’Challa because of the king’s inaction against the racist oppression in Azania. This fictional country was another thinly-veiled version of South Africa, one that had its own superheroes.

wait..is that yet another story that deals with social injustice???

There are well over 625+ comic books/appearances of the Black Panther in Marvel comics since the 1960's.

This Apartheid story arc lasted about 4 issues.
The Klan story arc lasted about 3 issues. Maybe more.

That's a total of 7 issues... out of at least 625+ different issues

Which equals 1.12% of stories.
And that's 1.12% of the WORST-SELLING storylines of the series.

So Yes, It DOES matter whether they sell, or not.

Especially if you are bitching about... 'how the movie should have ended'... 'or what should have happened in the movie'.

Fighting Super-Powered Villains & Evil Meglomanics..... THAT's WHAT SELLS.
So in turn, THAT's what they make the movies about.

For example....

Marvel once spent 6 or 8 issues turning Capt. America into a Werewolf. (That literally barks).
It was the deemed one of the WORST-SELLING storylines in the history of Capt. America comics.

Now they've made 3 separate Captain America movies, so far.... but you don't see Marvel rushing out to turn Capt. America into a Werewolf on the 'big screen' now, do you? Of course not.

Instead, they bring out The Red Skull... the Winter Soldier... And Civil War storylines.

They put Captain America's BIGGEST, most-popular story arcs & rivals into his movies.
BECAUSE THAT's WHAT SELLS.

And that's the same thing they are doing for The Black Panther.

You see they bring out Killmonger. FIRST.

The Klan storylines. The Apartheid storylines.

Those storylines would take a backseat to stuff like...

Killmonger. The Secret Wars. The Super Skrulls. The Silver Surfer. Kraven The Hunter. White Tiger. Shuri becoming the Black Panther. The Dora Millaje.

And was the core of the movie's plot about.... social injustice???

The core of the movie's plot was about VIBRANIUM. And who controls it.

Killmonger wanted to control the Vibranium.

The social injustice of slavery was ONE OF his 'motivations/reasons' to defeat T'Challa and become King of Wakanda... so he could control the Vibranium. Slavery wasn't his 'only reason'. It was just... ONE OF... his reasons. (The death of his father was ANOTHER reason.)

If there was NO VIBRANIUM in Wakanda... then Killmonger would not have been fighting T'Challa (specifically) over slavery / social injustice issues.

Remove Vibranium from the whole equation... and ask yourself if Killmonger 'even shows up' in Wakanda.

If you think he would still go to Wakanda... then what is his 'motivation'? The death of his father. That's it.

Killmonger would not travel all the way to Wakanda to fight T'Challa over the throne... because of the social injustice of slavery... if Wakanda NEVER had any Vibranium to begin with.

The core of the movie's plot is all about VIBRANIUM. Don't kid yourself.

The Social Injustice of Slavery adds 'motivation' for the Villain.... that we as black folks can relate to.

ryan coogler is black and his take on black panther is now more mainstream and in line with those past attempts than anything

No, not really. I just explained why. Scroll up.

Granted, Coogler's version 'has a few elements' of some of the past stuff. I would agree with that. But overall, his version is more in-line with putting the biggest rivals & most-popular storylines into the film. (i.e. The things/villains that are the REAL 'money-makers'. )

this track got started when I said that it was naive and a plothole for tchalla to allow a CIA agent access to their tech...

you said it didn't matter since wakanda can beat any and all human armies on the planet.

my contention is if thats the case and has been the wtf are they hiding for...why install spies all over the world if youre going to allow an outsider spy access to your shit. Why because he took a bullet for your ex girlfriend? well thanx for that and we'll that fix up BUT you have to sit in this nondescript cell while your here...now THATS a logical approach to that situation that makes since on why all the black panthers have been BATMAN LEVEL PARANOID about outsiders discovering their shit all these centuries.

You're not really thinking it thru...

If a CIA Agent DIES overseas, in South Korea... during a Casino gun battle with a Notorious Smuggler.... who was trying to buy Vibranium off "the Black Market"... then ALOT of questions are gonna get asked.

Questions T'Challa/Wakanda might NOT want to answer.

Someone very high-up in Rank.... with a much Higher Rank than Ross himself.... is gonna ask simple questions like...

- "Who's dead? Where did he die? On American soil? Overseas?"
- "Who else was involved? Was this an act of War? "
- "How did he die? Selling Vibranium? Gunshots? In a Casino?"
- "Which Interrogation Room? Explosion? Klaw? You mean Ulysses Klaw?"
- "What the Hell is Vibranium, in the first place?"
- "Where does it come from? Wakanda? That's Impossible. "
- "Find King T'Challa. Call the Embassy. We need to talk."

That's how it starts.

However, if you take Ross to Wakanda & he stays alive.... he's becomes an 'Inside Man' who can deflect these types of questions & help to cover shit up, in the future. Every superhero needs an 'Inside Man'.... even Batman has a Commissioner Gordon to cover his ass, from time to time.

And the ‘Inside Man’ and the Hero usually share the same goals.

But they didn't do that because there was a MANDATE to show a nice/good white person in a story where the only other white person is a racist asshole. So they had to balance that out.

And youve been trying to justify that plothole and why wakanda doesn't have to be paranoid and hidden since..

Ooooorrrrr maybe they used a character that Christopher Priest invented.
A character who provides comic relief / sarcasm in the movie... the same way he does in the comic books.

Ross To Klaw: "Well, I see you brought quite the entourage.... do you have a mixtape coming out?"

That's a different explanation. Not a plot hole.

And btw, a minute ago you was bitching about how Capt. America, The Avengers and the Fantastic Four DO NOT SHOW UP to fight ‘the pillars of White Supremacy that plague the Black Community’....

Meanwhile, you also bitch about how a white CIA Agent was such an integral part of the Black Panther storyline... "and he really was not needed.”

So which is it gonna be???

Do you want White Folks to appear/help out in Black Panther storylines? Or Not?

You cannot have it both ways, bruh.

Seeems you want to ‘pick & choose’ When, Where, Who, Why or How Much..... ’white folks’ should 'be involved’.

- The Avengers ain’t nowhere to be found in the comics... This is some bullshit.
- The White CIA Agent is TOO INVOLVED in the movie... he’s just there for balance... This is some bullshit.

Negro please.

You can’t complain ‘when white folks show up & contribute’.... BUT ALSO... ‘complain when they don’t’.

Be consistent.

If the Avengers show up to fight White Supremacy... they gonna get portrayed as the ‘major force’ in eliminating it. And Black Panther would take a 'backseat' to THEIR contributions.

Then it becomes an Avengers Movie (featuring Black Panther) in the eyes of the fans of the MCU.
Not a (full-fledged) Black Panther solo-movie.

So if you dont want that to happen, then stop complaining about their absence.

Otherwise, when they make the Black Panther 2 sequel, you will be right back here saying shit like...

“They made the Avengers out to be the real heroes... they wasn’t concerned about White Supremacy for over 40+ years... now they just run in and 'save the day' ... they were too involved in the story... This is some ole bullshit.”

 

[nate1477]

great article

 

[geechiedan]

"We see black heroes standing up against avatars of structural oppression who terrorize black communities."

That's not Black Panther's PRIMARY FOCUS.

That's the part that doesn't sink in, for you.
Black Panther is not out there 'Fighting Whitey' in every issue.

Just because it happened ONCE... does not necessarily mean it should translate over into the first movie.

Seems like your thinking is...
- "If Black Panther once fought the KKK.... then T'Chaka/Wakanda shouldn't hide from White Supremacy."
- "If he fights the avatars of structural oppression... then Wakanda should be vulnerable to the endemic problems that plagued Africa"
- "Why don't the Avengers help out. This is some bullshit.'

dude i'm just talking about what the movie set up and what was consistent with that set up. It doesn't make sense to have a CIA agent in you're R&D facility period.. T'challa is a leader of a country and countries don't have allies they have INTERESTS and considering T'challa was reluctant to bring him back in the first place and refused to accept in kidnapped africans because "they bring with them their own problems" (refused sanctuary for africans but gave the white spy a grand tour of the mining shafts..hmmm) it makes no sense that he would allow him into what one would assume is top secret areas of the kingdom. Now I don't care what their relationship is T'Challa's position and the interest of his country supersede that shit or at least SHOULD if youre writing the story with any consistency.

There are well over 625+ comic books/appearances of the Black Panther in Marvel comics since the 1960's.

This Apartheid story arc lasted about 4 issues.
The Klan story arc lasted about 3 issues. Maybe more.

That's a total of 7 issues... out of at least 625+ different issues

as you pointed out it happened more than once. But thats besides the point. Whoever was writing the title decided that BP given the circumstances of the times and history of africans and black people that the character should acknowledge that reality in some way..hell capt america fought nazis and magneto is a concentration camp survivor. I'm sure jewish comic fans have had many discussions about the treatment of their real historic issue in comic book form.

The core of the movie's plot was about VIBRANIUM. And who controls it.

Killmonger wanted to control the Vibranium.

The social injustice of slavery was ONE OF his 'motivations/reasons' to defeat T'Challa and become King of Wakanda... so he could control the Vibranium. Slavery wasn't his 'only reason'. It was just... ONE OF... his reasons. (The death of his father was ANOTHER reason.)

If there was NO VIBRANIUM in Wakanda... then Killmonger would not have been fighting T'Challa (specifically) over slavery / social injustice issues.

Remove Vibranium from the whole equation... and ask yourself if Killmonger 'even shows up' in Wakanda.

If you think he would still go to Wakanda... then what is his 'motivation'? The death of his father. That's it.

Killmonger would not travel all the way to Wakanda to fight T'Challa over the throne... because of the social injustice of slavery... if Wakanda NEVER had any Vibranium to begin with.

The core of the movie's plot is all about VIBRANIUM. Don't kid yourself.

The Social Injustice of Slavery adds 'motivation' for the Villain.... that we as black folks can relate to.



No, not really. I just explained why. Scroll up.

Granted, Coogler's version 'has a few elements' of some of the past stuff. I would agree with that. But overall, his version is more in-line with putting the biggest rivals & most-popular storylines into the film. (i.e. The things/villains that are the REAL 'money-makers'. )

The vibranium is just a means to an end homie... understand that eriks heritage was revealed to him as a child...he grew up knowing the truth about who he was and where he came from and what they had. How else would he know about the true nature of some african artifact. His father N'jobu was incensed at the injustices he saw around him that black people had to endure so much so that he risked exposing wakanda 2 decades earlier to try to help black people in america. Killmonger was just trying to complete his father's mission. This has nothing to do with the slavery it has every to do with the current situation happening today...police brutality, economic disparity, etc etc. Killmonger traveled the world and saw suffering and oppression some of it he was ordered to participate in. The way coogler wrote that character he wasn't just some heist supervillain bent on being some kind of arms supplier his motivation was to right all the wrongs that happened to him,his father and black people all over the world. That's why people don't hate the character because his quest was really noble at its core...his methods were jacked up.

You're not really thinking it thru...

If a CIA Agent DIES overseas, in South Korea... during a Casino gun battle with a Notorious Smuggler.... who was trying to buy Vibranium off "the Black Market"... then ALOT of questions are gonna get asked.

Questions T'Challa/Wakanda might NOT want to answer.

Someone very high-up in Rank.... with a much Higher Rank than Ross himself.... is gonna ask simple questions like...

- "Who's dead? Where did he die? On American soil? Overseas?"
- "Who else was involved? Was this an act of War? "
- "How did he die? Selling Vibranium? Gunshots? In a Casino?"
- "Which Interrogation Room? Explosion? Klaw? You mean Ulysses Klaw?"
- "What the Hell is Vibranium, in the first place?"
- "Where does it come from? Wakanda? That's Impossible. "
- "Find King T'Challa. Call the Embassy. We need to talk."

That's how it starts.

However, if you take Ross to Wakanda & he stays alive.... he's becomes an 'Inside Man' who can deflect these types of questions & help to cover shit up, in the future. Every superhero needs an 'Inside Man'.... even Batman has a Commissioner Gordon to cover his ass, from time to time.

And the ‘Inside Man’ and the Hero usually share the same goals.

and youre OVERTHINKING it..
1. Why would Tchalla give a fuck that the US was asking questions if wakanda (according to your position) can whoop any army's ass on the planet???
2. youre example is very US is the leader of the world oriented and therefore wakanda should be wary of drawing their attention in negative way.. again youve been going on and on about how badass wakanda is...remember this:

Or he's got shit-tons of Vibranium Technology & Super-Weapons at his disposal.... that can put 'whole Armies' to sleep.

3. Ross was on a mission to buy vibranium...the govt knew that..that was his assignment..if he died on the mission then that's par for the course of the spylife. Remember T'Challa was going to leave his ass and the ONLY reason he brought him back was because Nakia CONVINCED him to because he took a bullet meant for her. THAT'S IT.

no questions..no inside man necessary...why would that be necessary when wakanda has spies all over the world.

Ooooorrrrr maybe they used a character that Christopher Priest invented.
A character who provides comic relief / sarcasm in the movie... the same way he does in the comic books.

Ross To Klaw: "Well, I see you brought quite the entourage.... do you have a mixtape coming out?"

That's a different explanation. Not a plot hole.

And btw, a minute ago you was bitching about how Capt. America, The Avengers and the Fantastic Four DO NOT SHOW UP to fight ‘the pillars of White Supremacy that plague the Black Community’....

Meanwhile, you also bitch about how a white CIA Agent was such an integral part of the Black Panther storyline... "and he really was not needed.”

So which is it gonna be???

Do you want White Folks to appear/help out in Black Panther storylines? Or Not?

You cannot have it both ways, bruh.

Seeems you want to ‘pick & choose’ When, Where, Who, Why or How Much..... ’white folks’ should 'be involved’.

- The Avengers ain’t nowhere to be found in the comics... This is some bullshit.
- The White CIA Agent is TOO INVOLVED in the movie... he’s just there for balance... This is some bullshit.

Negro please.

You can’t complain ‘when white folks show up & contribute’.... BUT ALSO... ‘complain when they don’t’.

Be consistent.

hows this.. ross was UNNECESSARY for the last hour of the film.
and the whole avengers showing up was an example youre blowing waaay out of proportion. Go reread what I wrote.

 

[The Plutonian]

I say: fuck you kiss my ass whatever mf do better and let me know, dueces!