There's a height/weight requirement for it anyway so...
‘Black Panther’ Is Not the Movie We Deserve (Colin Warning..No Porn)
- Thread starter Big Bang
- Start date
N'Jobu is the Son of the King of Wakanda and a Son of a Black Panther and he possesses the royal ring of his father.
He is the father of . . .
Erik is the direct descendant of of a Black Panther and he too possessed the ring of the King of Wakanda.
and he knows it . . .
His father shared their legacy with Erik when he was in the apartment.
When Erik arrived in Wakanda he wasn't interested in sightseeing. He wasn't trying to be loved on by the Royals or the people of Wakanda.
Erik came for the throne and his first order was to activated the WAR DOGS and provide them with Weapons.
Erik was not some sad, lost, broken boy seeking acceptance, inclusion or cultural identity.
Klaue wasn't taking Erik to Wakanda. Erik was taking Klaue to Wakanda dead or alive.
Erik baited Klaue with vibranium with every intention of taking Wakanda's most wanted home and the setup also showed the Erik knew a whole lot about African nations as well as Wakandan artifacts.
Erik had a plan. a great plan. A plan to activate a group of trained individuals, WAR DOGS, already embedded in multiple countries.
Erik got his mission from his daddy the son of a king and the son of a panther. Thus Erik was capable of drinking the heart fruit and he was able to wear the panther suit.
Zuri revealed to the King of Wakanda that his brother was dealing in Vibranium but he didn't reveal that NJobu had a son right down there in the parking lot.
The Black Panther killed N'Jobu because he had no intention of letting his inside info get back to Wakanda with his status to the throne.
This movie reveals that isolationism becomes elitism leading to the loss of empathy and compassion even for the 2,000,000,000 who are completely identical to you.
Last edited:
Nah. While Iron Man and Cap were beating each other bloody, Black Panther figured out that Zemo was the real baddie and captured him in Civil War.
Black Panther is literally being set up to replace Tony as the financial resources for the "secret" Avengers led by Cap. The Black Panther films are literally being set up in the slot of the Captain America films - the next possible leader. You gotta see the movie to really see what the story was.
Right. This is a point that some folks didn't get. The contest was only over once the challenger died or conceded. Killmonger chose death instead of conceding. Its a simple point. His final words were haunting. White girl next to me started clapping, I said damn.
Think about it, Joker gladly accepted death in The Dark Knight when Bats threw him off the roof. When Bats saved him, he was pissed off.
And to be honest... they left it open. Killmonger could still be alive. T'Challa could've saved him. Either way was a noble decision for T'Challa to make. That's just brilliant writing right there.
N'Jobu is the Son of the King of Wakanda and a Son of a Black Panther and he possesses the royal ring of his father.
He is the father of . . .
Erik is the direct descendant of of a Black Panther and he too possessed the ring of the King of Wakanda.
and he knows it . . .
His father shared their legacy with Erik when he was in the apartment.
When Erik arrived in Wakanda he wasn't interested in sightseeing. He wasn't trying to be loved on by the Royals or the people of Wakanda.
Erik came from the throne and his first order was to activated the WAR DOGS and provide them with Weapons.
Erik was not some sad, lost, broken boy seeking acceptance, inclusion or cultural identity.
Klaue wasn't taking Erik to Wakanda. Erik was taking Klaue to Wakanda dead or alive.
Erik baited Klaue with vibranium with every intention of taking Wakanda's most wanted home and the setup also showed the Erik knew a whole lot about African nations as well as Wakandan artifacts.
Erik had a plan. a great plan. A plan to activate a group of trained individuals, WAR DOGS, already embedded in multiple countries.
Erik got his mission from his daddy the son of a king and the son of a panther. Thus Erik was capable of drinking the heart fruit and he was able to wear the panther suit.
Zuri revealed to the King of Wakanda that his brother was dealing in Vibranium but he didn't reveal that NJobu had a son right down there in the parking lot.
The Black Panther killed N'Jobu because he had no intention of letting his inside info get back to Wakanda with his status to the throne.
This movie reveals that isolationism becomes elitism leading to the loss of empathy and compassion even for the 2,000,000,000 who are completely identical to you.
Good plan.
It was thorough.
It was as simple to see as day and yet when it happened, the whole audience was still in shock.
oNE
joker didn't want to rule Gotham - he was an agent of anarchyIn The Dark Knight... The Joker sent a message to all the Mobsters, Cops & even Batman himself... that he wanted to RULE GOTHAM.
"never let the truth get in the way of a good story... "
in this case -don't let the plot get in the way of a killer performance and closing statement
Last edited:
Yes, he was an 'Agent of Chaos'... but that doesn't mean he didn't want to Rule Gotham also.
At the 1:50 mark... he tells The Chechen Mobster: "Tell your men they work for ME now... This is MY City."
Which means he is Gotham's new Ruler.
He never said: "Tell your men they are free to seek employment somewhere else... Or get out the game completely"
Joker told all the Mobsters who control Gotham's Underworld... that HE is 'taking over'.
Whether he is 'taking over' just 'to cause anarchy'... or to 'get rich'... or to 'be a nice guy'... is debatable.
Taking Over is Taking Over.
It means: "I RUN SHIT NOW". What Joker does with the city AFTER he 'takes over' is a whole different story.
It's 2 separate steps...
(Step 1) Take Over.
(Step 2) Do Something With Your Reign (like cause chaos)
Last edited:
Here is a pretty good (and also thoughtful) direct response to the original article I posted.....
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/02/black-panther-erik-killmonger/553805/
Black Panther is a love letter to people of African descent all over the world. Its actors, its costume design, its music, and countless other facets of the film are drawn from all over the continent and its diaspora, in a science-fiction celebration of the imaginary country of Wakanda, a high-tech utopia that is a fictive manifestation of African potential unfettered by slavery and colonialism.
But it is first and foremost an African American love letter, and as such it is consumed with The Void, the psychic and cultural wound caused by the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, the loss of life, culture, language, and history that could never be restored. It is the attempt to penetrate The Void that brought us Alex Haley’s Roots, that draws thousands of African Americans across the ocean to visit West Africa every year, that left me crumpled on the rocks outside the Door of No Return at Gorée Island’s slave house as I stared out over a horizon that my ancestors might have traversed once and forever. Because all they have was lost to The Void, I can never know who they were, and neither can anyone else.
The Provocation and Power of Black Panther
It is also The Void that creates Michael B. Jordan’s Erik Killmonger, the antagonist of Black Panther, cousin to Chadwick Boseman’s protagonist King T’Challa and a comic-book villain so transcendent that he is almost out of place in a film about a superhero who dresses as a cat. Black Panther is about a highly advanced African kingdom, yes, but its core theme is Pan-Africanism, a belief that no matter how seemingly distant black people’s lives and struggles are from each other, we are in a sense “cousins” who bear a responsibility to help one another escape oppression. And so the director Ryan Coogler asks, if an African superpower like Wakanda existed, with all its power, its monopoly on the invaluable sci-fi metal vibranium, and its advanced technology, how could it have remained silent, remained still, as millions of Africans were devoured by The Void?
“Two billion people all over the world who look like us whose lives are much harder, and Wakanda has the tools to liberate them all,” Killmonger scolds the Wakandan court. “Where was Wakanda?”
Killmonger has come to Wakanda as a conqueror. His father N’Jobu facilitated the theft of vibranium in an attempt to arm black people all over the world against their oppressors; N’Jobu is killed by T’Challa’s father T’Chaka for his insubordinate attempt to end the centuries of isolation that have kept Wakanda safe. T’Chaka abandons Killmonger in Oakland, California (the birthplace of the Black Panther Party), leaving Killmonger literally and figuratively an orphan, who sees in his lost homeland a chance to avenge the millions of black people extinguished in The Void, and those who still suffer in its wake.
Killmonger’s stated purpose, to liberate black people all over the world, has sparked a lively discussion over whether he is a bad guy to begin with. What could be so bad about black liberation? “I fist-pumped in the silent, dark theater when he was laying out his plans,” writes Brooke Obie at Shadow and Act. “IT’S A GOOD IDEA!” That Coogler’s villain has even inspired this debate is a testament to how profound and complex the character is.
“In the end, all comes down to a contest between T’Challa and Killmonger that can only be read one way,” writes Christopher Lebron in a well-argued piece in Boston Review, “in a world marked by racism, a man of African nobility must fight his own blood relative whose goal is the global liberation of blacks.”
This is not actually what happens in the film. Killmonger’s goal is, in his eyes, the global liberation of black people. But that is not truly his goal, as Coogler makes clear in the text of the script and in Killmonger’s interactions with other characters. Like Magneto, another comic-book character who is a creation of historical trauma—the Holocaust instead of the Middle Passage—Killmonger’s goal is world domination. “The sun will never set on the Wakandan empire,” Killmonger declares, echoing an old saying about the British Empire, to drive the point home as clearly as possible. He sees no future beyond his own reign; he burns the magic herbs Wakandan monarchs use to gain their powers because he does not even intend to have an heir.
It is remarkable that many viewers seem to have taken the “liberation” part at face value, and ignored the “empire” part, which Jordan delivers perfectly. They are equally important. Killmonger’s plan for “black liberation,” arming insurgencies all over the world, is an American policy that has backfired and led to unforeseen disasters perhaps every single time it has been deployed; it is somewhat bizarre to see people endorse a comic-book version of George W. Bush’s foreign policy and sign up for the Project for the New Wakandan Centuryas long as the words “black liberation” are used instead of “democracy promotion.” Killmonger’s assault begins in London, New York, and Hong Kong; China is not typically known as a particularly good example of white Western hegemony in need of overthrow.
There are other Wakandan characters who wish to end the kingdom’s isolation for reasons of their own. Lupita Nyong’o’s Nakia is seen at the beginning of the film rescuing people from a Boko Haram–type militia, and later urges T’Challa to take in refugees; T’Challa refuses, citing Wakanda’s tradition of isolationism. Killmonger seeks more than aid or revolution—he seeks hegemony. Here, there are echoes of the breakdown of the original Black Panther Party in its later years, as radicalized chapters sought a direct armed struggle to overthrow the U.S. government—a plan that most of the Party’s established leadership saw as folly. In so doing, the film’s conflict symbolizes, as my colleague Vann Newkirk writes, an old argument over “the nature of power and the rightness of its use” that has long “dominated black thought in the United States,” and even beyond.
“You want to see us become just like the people you hate so much,” T’Challa tells Killmonger during their climactic battle. “I learn from my enemies,” Killmonger retorts. “You have become them,” T’Challa responds. That the climactic battle in Black Panther is a bloodbath between Wakandan factions is no accident; it is Killmonger putting the never-colonized Wakanda through a taste of colonialism in microcosm. In one of many sly references to the Black Panther Party, it is Wakanda’s women—Nakia, Danai Gurira’s General Okoye, Letitia Wright’s Princess Shuri, Angela Bassett’s Queen-Mother Ramonda—who sustain Wakanda through its darkest moments. Where T’Challa cannot survive or triumph without Okoye, Shuri, or Ramonda, Killmonger is alone. His African American mother is absent from the story; Killmonger kills his own lover the moment her body stands between him and his ideological ambitions.
The following distinction is crucial: Black Panther does not render a verdict that violence is an unacceptable tool of black liberation—to the contrary, that is precisely how Wakanda is liberated. It renders a verdict on imperialism as a tool of black liberation, to say that the master’s tools cannot dismantle the master’s house.
Yet because Killmonger’s plans are rooted in a recognizable idealism and a wounded soul, the audience is supposed to empathize with him, even care for him. Viewers are meant to mourn him as T’Challa does when he dies, invoking his ancestors who chose to be consumed by The Void rather than toil in bondage. When T’Challa goes to the spirit world, he sees his ancestors. When Killmonger goes, in one of the most moving scenes in the film, he sees only his father; the rest of his ancestors have been lost to The Void. He is alone in a way T’Challa can never comprehend. So like his father N’Jobu, Killmonger is radicalized. “We can rule over them all the right way,” N’Jobu says during a flashback.
Killmonger himself is a kind of avatar of the BPP’s deterioration in its latter years, when rebelling against white supremacy gave way to internecine bloodshed. He embodies the Black Panther Party’s revolutionary possibility and noble intentions, but also its degeneration into fratricidal violence, and a sexism that persisted despite party doctrine. The film’s title thus has a double meaning, an indication of the gravity of Killmonger’s character—a Black Panther against the Black Panther. In one of the many subtle touches Coogler adds to a film in a genre not known for them, Black Panther ambiguously refers to either of them.
It is also a mistake, to, as Lebron does, view Killmonger as “as a receptacle for tropes of inner-city gangsterism.” Killmonger is not a product of the ghetto, so much as he is a product of the American military-industrial complex. Here too, the script is explicit. Noting Killmonger’s technical background (he studied at MIT) and his war record (tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, even in Africa where, he acknowledges, “ I killed my own brothers and sisters on this continent”). The CIA agent Everett Ross says of Killmonger, “he’s not Wakandan, he’s one of ours,” later observing that Killmonger’s coup is what the U.S. government “trained him to do.” The part of Killmonger that makes him a supervillain is not the part of him that is African.
Ross’s inclusion is perhaps the weakest part of the storyline—the history of the CIA in Africa is a history of the suppression of democratic movements like the African National Congress, the backing of brutal dictators, and opposition to racial equality in the name of anti-communism. Shuri hints at this history when she derisively calls Ross a “colonizer.” Nevertheless, Ross’s heroism in the film, even in a fantasy, feels like a kind of propaganda.
In spite of his ambitions for global domination, Killmonger does something remarkable and perhaps unprecedented for the superhero genre—he wins the argument. When T’Challa learns that his father killed N’Jobu and abandoned N’Jadaka (Killmonger), he is horrified: The truth shatters his faith in his father and in his father’s infallibility. On the spirit plane, T’Challa declares to the manifestations of his ancestors, the previous Black Panthers, “You were wrong. All of you, you were wrong.”
Where was Wakanda? Wakanda failed. Killmonger was right. He is blinded by his pain to the evil of his own methods, but he is correct that Wakanda abandoned its responsibility to use its unmatched power to protect black people around the world. They could have stopped the endless march of souls into The Void. They did not.
After defeating Killmonger, T’Challa ends Wakanda’s isolationism and, beginning in Oakland, starts to deploy Wakandan capital toward an international social-service project focused on impoverished black neighborhoods—again echoing the legacy of the Black Panther Party. Killmonger is dead, but he has changed Wakanda forever, ended the isolationism that defined its existence for all time, and unleashed a powerful new ally to oppressed black people all over the world. Is this inadequate? Too little, too late? Maybe. But it is folly to think that Killmonger’s preferred plan of Wakandan world hegemony through massive bloodshed, using a method that has never once worked as intended, is a preferable outcome.
Lebron laments that “Killmonger ... will not appear in another movie. He does not get a second chance. His black life did not matter even in a world of flying cars and miracle medicine.” On the contrary, Killmonger’s ascension and death is the event that catalyzes Wakanda’s redemption from its greatest failure, and his death ensures that unlike Loki, Thanos, the Red Skull, or any other of Marvel’s endless stable of world-conquering despots, the pathos of his tragic end cannot be infinitely repeated as farce. His death not only matters, it is also why he matters more than all the rest of them.
Shortly after he is crowned King, during his vision on the spirit plane, Killmonger sees N’Jobu and recalls a moment from his childhood, when N’Jobu expressed the fear that should Killmonger return to Wakanda, they would not accept him, but instead see him as lost. “Maybe your home’s the ones that’s lost,” a young Erik tells N’Jobu.
And thanks to Killmonger, now they are found.
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/02/black-panther-erik-killmonger/553805/
Black Panther is a love letter to people of African descent all over the world. Its actors, its costume design, its music, and countless other facets of the film are drawn from all over the continent and its diaspora, in a science-fiction celebration of the imaginary country of Wakanda, a high-tech utopia that is a fictive manifestation of African potential unfettered by slavery and colonialism.
But it is first and foremost an African American love letter, and as such it is consumed with The Void, the psychic and cultural wound caused by the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, the loss of life, culture, language, and history that could never be restored. It is the attempt to penetrate The Void that brought us Alex Haley’s Roots, that draws thousands of African Americans across the ocean to visit West Africa every year, that left me crumpled on the rocks outside the Door of No Return at Gorée Island’s slave house as I stared out over a horizon that my ancestors might have traversed once and forever. Because all they have was lost to The Void, I can never know who they were, and neither can anyone else.
The Provocation and Power of Black Panther
It is also The Void that creates Michael B. Jordan’s Erik Killmonger, the antagonist of Black Panther, cousin to Chadwick Boseman’s protagonist King T’Challa and a comic-book villain so transcendent that he is almost out of place in a film about a superhero who dresses as a cat. Black Panther is about a highly advanced African kingdom, yes, but its core theme is Pan-Africanism, a belief that no matter how seemingly distant black people’s lives and struggles are from each other, we are in a sense “cousins” who bear a responsibility to help one another escape oppression. And so the director Ryan Coogler asks, if an African superpower like Wakanda existed, with all its power, its monopoly on the invaluable sci-fi metal vibranium, and its advanced technology, how could it have remained silent, remained still, as millions of Africans were devoured by The Void?
“Two billion people all over the world who look like us whose lives are much harder, and Wakanda has the tools to liberate them all,” Killmonger scolds the Wakandan court. “Where was Wakanda?”
Killmonger has come to Wakanda as a conqueror. His father N’Jobu facilitated the theft of vibranium in an attempt to arm black people all over the world against their oppressors; N’Jobu is killed by T’Challa’s father T’Chaka for his insubordinate attempt to end the centuries of isolation that have kept Wakanda safe. T’Chaka abandons Killmonger in Oakland, California (the birthplace of the Black Panther Party), leaving Killmonger literally and figuratively an orphan, who sees in his lost homeland a chance to avenge the millions of black people extinguished in The Void, and those who still suffer in its wake.
Killmonger’s stated purpose, to liberate black people all over the world, has sparked a lively discussion over whether he is a bad guy to begin with. What could be so bad about black liberation? “I fist-pumped in the silent, dark theater when he was laying out his plans,” writes Brooke Obie at Shadow and Act. “IT’S A GOOD IDEA!” That Coogler’s villain has even inspired this debate is a testament to how profound and complex the character is.
“In the end, all comes down to a contest between T’Challa and Killmonger that can only be read one way,” writes Christopher Lebron in a well-argued piece in Boston Review, “in a world marked by racism, a man of African nobility must fight his own blood relative whose goal is the global liberation of blacks.”
This is not actually what happens in the film. Killmonger’s goal is, in his eyes, the global liberation of black people. But that is not truly his goal, as Coogler makes clear in the text of the script and in Killmonger’s interactions with other characters. Like Magneto, another comic-book character who is a creation of historical trauma—the Holocaust instead of the Middle Passage—Killmonger’s goal is world domination. “The sun will never set on the Wakandan empire,” Killmonger declares, echoing an old saying about the British Empire, to drive the point home as clearly as possible. He sees no future beyond his own reign; he burns the magic herbs Wakandan monarchs use to gain their powers because he does not even intend to have an heir.
It is remarkable that many viewers seem to have taken the “liberation” part at face value, and ignored the “empire” part, which Jordan delivers perfectly. They are equally important. Killmonger’s plan for “black liberation,” arming insurgencies all over the world, is an American policy that has backfired and led to unforeseen disasters perhaps every single time it has been deployed; it is somewhat bizarre to see people endorse a comic-book version of George W. Bush’s foreign policy and sign up for the Project for the New Wakandan Centuryas long as the words “black liberation” are used instead of “democracy promotion.” Killmonger’s assault begins in London, New York, and Hong Kong; China is not typically known as a particularly good example of white Western hegemony in need of overthrow.
There are other Wakandan characters who wish to end the kingdom’s isolation for reasons of their own. Lupita Nyong’o’s Nakia is seen at the beginning of the film rescuing people from a Boko Haram–type militia, and later urges T’Challa to take in refugees; T’Challa refuses, citing Wakanda’s tradition of isolationism. Killmonger seeks more than aid or revolution—he seeks hegemony. Here, there are echoes of the breakdown of the original Black Panther Party in its later years, as radicalized chapters sought a direct armed struggle to overthrow the U.S. government—a plan that most of the Party’s established leadership saw as folly. In so doing, the film’s conflict symbolizes, as my colleague Vann Newkirk writes, an old argument over “the nature of power and the rightness of its use” that has long “dominated black thought in the United States,” and even beyond.
“You want to see us become just like the people you hate so much,” T’Challa tells Killmonger during their climactic battle. “I learn from my enemies,” Killmonger retorts. “You have become them,” T’Challa responds. That the climactic battle in Black Panther is a bloodbath between Wakandan factions is no accident; it is Killmonger putting the never-colonized Wakanda through a taste of colonialism in microcosm. In one of many sly references to the Black Panther Party, it is Wakanda’s women—Nakia, Danai Gurira’s General Okoye, Letitia Wright’s Princess Shuri, Angela Bassett’s Queen-Mother Ramonda—who sustain Wakanda through its darkest moments. Where T’Challa cannot survive or triumph without Okoye, Shuri, or Ramonda, Killmonger is alone. His African American mother is absent from the story; Killmonger kills his own lover the moment her body stands between him and his ideological ambitions.
The following distinction is crucial: Black Panther does not render a verdict that violence is an unacceptable tool of black liberation—to the contrary, that is precisely how Wakanda is liberated. It renders a verdict on imperialism as a tool of black liberation, to say that the master’s tools cannot dismantle the master’s house.
Yet because Killmonger’s plans are rooted in a recognizable idealism and a wounded soul, the audience is supposed to empathize with him, even care for him. Viewers are meant to mourn him as T’Challa does when he dies, invoking his ancestors who chose to be consumed by The Void rather than toil in bondage. When T’Challa goes to the spirit world, he sees his ancestors. When Killmonger goes, in one of the most moving scenes in the film, he sees only his father; the rest of his ancestors have been lost to The Void. He is alone in a way T’Challa can never comprehend. So like his father N’Jobu, Killmonger is radicalized. “We can rule over them all the right way,” N’Jobu says during a flashback.
Killmonger himself is a kind of avatar of the BPP’s deterioration in its latter years, when rebelling against white supremacy gave way to internecine bloodshed. He embodies the Black Panther Party’s revolutionary possibility and noble intentions, but also its degeneration into fratricidal violence, and a sexism that persisted despite party doctrine. The film’s title thus has a double meaning, an indication of the gravity of Killmonger’s character—a Black Panther against the Black Panther. In one of the many subtle touches Coogler adds to a film in a genre not known for them, Black Panther ambiguously refers to either of them.
It is also a mistake, to, as Lebron does, view Killmonger as “as a receptacle for tropes of inner-city gangsterism.” Killmonger is not a product of the ghetto, so much as he is a product of the American military-industrial complex. Here too, the script is explicit. Noting Killmonger’s technical background (he studied at MIT) and his war record (tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, even in Africa where, he acknowledges, “ I killed my own brothers and sisters on this continent”). The CIA agent Everett Ross says of Killmonger, “he’s not Wakandan, he’s one of ours,” later observing that Killmonger’s coup is what the U.S. government “trained him to do.” The part of Killmonger that makes him a supervillain is not the part of him that is African.
Ross’s inclusion is perhaps the weakest part of the storyline—the history of the CIA in Africa is a history of the suppression of democratic movements like the African National Congress, the backing of brutal dictators, and opposition to racial equality in the name of anti-communism. Shuri hints at this history when she derisively calls Ross a “colonizer.” Nevertheless, Ross’s heroism in the film, even in a fantasy, feels like a kind of propaganda.
In spite of his ambitions for global domination, Killmonger does something remarkable and perhaps unprecedented for the superhero genre—he wins the argument. When T’Challa learns that his father killed N’Jobu and abandoned N’Jadaka (Killmonger), he is horrified: The truth shatters his faith in his father and in his father’s infallibility. On the spirit plane, T’Challa declares to the manifestations of his ancestors, the previous Black Panthers, “You were wrong. All of you, you were wrong.”
Where was Wakanda? Wakanda failed. Killmonger was right. He is blinded by his pain to the evil of his own methods, but he is correct that Wakanda abandoned its responsibility to use its unmatched power to protect black people around the world. They could have stopped the endless march of souls into The Void. They did not.
After defeating Killmonger, T’Challa ends Wakanda’s isolationism and, beginning in Oakland, starts to deploy Wakandan capital toward an international social-service project focused on impoverished black neighborhoods—again echoing the legacy of the Black Panther Party. Killmonger is dead, but he has changed Wakanda forever, ended the isolationism that defined its existence for all time, and unleashed a powerful new ally to oppressed black people all over the world. Is this inadequate? Too little, too late? Maybe. But it is folly to think that Killmonger’s preferred plan of Wakandan world hegemony through massive bloodshed, using a method that has never once worked as intended, is a preferable outcome.
Lebron laments that “Killmonger ... will not appear in another movie. He does not get a second chance. His black life did not matter even in a world of flying cars and miracle medicine.” On the contrary, Killmonger’s ascension and death is the event that catalyzes Wakanda’s redemption from its greatest failure, and his death ensures that unlike Loki, Thanos, the Red Skull, or any other of Marvel’s endless stable of world-conquering despots, the pathos of his tragic end cannot be infinitely repeated as farce. His death not only matters, it is also why he matters more than all the rest of them.
Shortly after he is crowned King, during his vision on the spirit plane, Killmonger sees N’Jobu and recalls a moment from his childhood, when N’Jobu expressed the fear that should Killmonger return to Wakanda, they would not accept him, but instead see him as lost. “Maybe your home’s the ones that’s lost,” a young Erik tells N’Jobu.
And thanks to Killmonger, now they are found.
Uhh...none of that is cooning. While I do agree cooning at times is used when someone doesn't have anything else to say or agree with what you're saying.....the above not cooning.
I see a lot of dishonesty in these statements.
Folks ain't see no N????? in the movie but they are still willing to preserve the usefulness of that word.
The Coon word is just a distraction.
I see I have to read this thread
It ain't to you. Maybe you're a coon. Lol see how that works ?
It's makes to much sense to look over a title and not enter.
I probably can count on one hand how my times I Entered a thread about Young Thug....
I didn't like the barking either..but thats my conditioning/hang up living under racism that says blacks are like monkeys....seeing that made me wince a bit tho..
Also I DID NOT LIKE the fact that they let that cac walk around there freely ESPECIALLY considering what kind of cac he was. This is the guy who TRAINED people like killmonger to go out and destabilize countries. And theyre letting him use and witness their tech??
That was not only too trusting it was naive and it undermined the whole point of concealing the country.
I started really thinking about this movie a bit more, watched it again and...
Can anyone tell me the importance of making Killmonger plans AFTER becoming king known?
Like, having him know his history, know who he is, an obsession with Wakanda, the culture, the crown, feeling he has a claim to the throne or that he's the rightful heir... All of that could have been enough to drive the movie and everything he did. But to tie it to an armed revolt against "the man" along with everything else seems excessive.
Who cares what he does AFTER getting the kingdom?
I think that was irrelevant, unnecessary, and is kinda lazy on the part of the writers. To me it's them taking the easy way out. It goes against everything they hyped Killmonger up to be. He's so intelligent, graduated college at like 19, proficient killer, knowledgeable of his culture, street smart, one of the best in the military, studied his enemy (the man), and the best plan he can come up with is to start a way against the entire fuckin world? In real life these cops are killing niggas on camera and getting away with it. They drop bombs like bad habits. They have no problem killing, so in real life that's a no go. It's worse in comic book world. You do that shit in the Marvel universe and they sending ALL the Avengers at you. Hell they might send the Russian Avengers too.
Somebody called The Joker from Dark Knight an "agent of anarchy," and IMO they built this great, complex, antihero/villain in Killmonger, then relegated him to The Joker.. An agent of anarchy...
Can anyone tell me the importance of making Killmonger plans AFTER becoming king known?
Like, having him know his history, know who he is, an obsession with Wakanda, the culture, the crown, feeling he has a claim to the throne or that he's the rightful heir... All of that could have been enough to drive the movie and everything he did. But to tie it to an armed revolt against "the man" along with everything else seems excessive.
Who cares what he does AFTER getting the kingdom?
I think that was irrelevant, unnecessary, and is kinda lazy on the part of the writers. To me it's them taking the easy way out. It goes against everything they hyped Killmonger up to be. He's so intelligent, graduated college at like 19, proficient killer, knowledgeable of his culture, street smart, one of the best in the military, studied his enemy (the man), and the best plan he can come up with is to start a way against the entire fuckin world? In real life these cops are killing niggas on camera and getting away with it. They drop bombs like bad habits. They have no problem killing, so in real life that's a no go. It's worse in comic book world. You do that shit in the Marvel universe and they sending ALL the Avengers at you. Hell they might send the Russian Avengers too.
Somebody called The Joker from Dark Knight an "agent of anarchy," and IMO they built this great, complex, antihero/villain in Killmonger, then relegated him to The Joker.. An agent of anarchy...
Yeah, this didn't make sense. I can understand saving him, but they did nothing to conceal their location or technology. They could have blindfolded him, saved his life, then sent him home without showing him shit. Instead, they let him operate the technology. As soon as he gets home, he's going to let his folks know and there will be an army showing up.
Killmonger was only half wakandan. They said his father fell in love and had a kid with an American, I'm guessing she was black.
Wakanda is a geographic place in central Africa. There is no Wakandan look or type. They are not a different race.
Black is a skin color designation it has no biological basis...black and white is a european social construct thats puts political and social value on skin color. Its a western concept that should really have no meaning on the African continent.
What is your point?
The response is because it was said that his ancestors weren't slaves because he was from wakanda.
I'm saying since his mother wasn't from wakanda it is possible that he has ancestors that were slaves.
Last edited:
Then T'Challa is an naive as killmonger
T'Challa is not worried about the Colonizer's Armies.
Or he's got shit-tons of Vibranium Technology & Super-Weapons at his disposal.... that can put 'whole Armies' to sleep.
Last edited:
I ain't finna read all that shit. 
You think America and the rest of the world only gonna send armies at Wakanda?Or he's got shit-tons of Vibranium Technology & Super-Weapons at his disposal.... that can put 'whole Armies' to sleep.
You think Wakanda could NOT defeat all the armies of the rest of the planet... that do NOT have Wakandan Technology? Or Vibranium?You think America and the rest of the world only gonna send armies at Wakanda?
Did you watch the BP movie?? Or the Civil War movie??
ALL GUNS & BULLETS are completely useless against those BIG-ASS Shields that their Vibranium Blankets create... plus Wakanda got ADVANCED EMP TECHNOLOGY to nullify 'long-range missiles' before they even land... but let's say even if a few missiles DID HIT any buildings in Wakanda... they are all BUILT WITH VIBRANIUM... So NOTHING is getting knocked down, or blown up.
Even ALL the clothing of the soldiers is made of Vibranium.
The Wakandan Soldiers don’t even need a LEGIT Black Panther suit for themselves.
They could wear some ole mismatch ‘bootleg’ shit... and still put a ‘whole foot’ in yo’ ass. All they have to do is wear a hoodie, some gloves, plus grab a BASIC 'ski mask' & a pair of cheap sunglasses from the nearest 'Wakanda $0.99 Cents Store'.... and you cannot shoot them down.
They could even be on the battlefield... wearing du-rags.... while dressed like Chris & Snoop... and STILL open countless delivery trucks, filled with 'kegs of whup-ass'.
You can't blow up their strategic military targets... nor their buildings... or their jets.... and you can't 'gun down' their footsoldiers.
All those armies wouldn’t even be able to ‘topple a single hut’... in Wakanda.
Forget about any ‘fortified’ military targets. Now what???
SSssshhhhhheeeiiiiittt.... Every Army Soldier in the world would have to ‘crouch down’ & HIDE behind Captain America's Shield.... just to stand a 'fighting chance'.
They don’t want no smoke... from Wakanda.
Trust.
Last edited:
You think Wakanda could NOT defeat all the armies of the rest of the planet... that do NOT have Wakandan Technology? Or Vibranium?
Did you watch the BP movie?? Or the Civil War movie??
ALL GUNS & BULLETS are completely useless against those BIG-ASS Shields that their Vibranium Blankets create... plus Wakanda got ADVANCED EMP TECHNOLOGY to nullify 'long-range missiles' before they even land... but let's say even if a few missiles DID HIT any buildings in Wakanda... they are all BUILT WITH VIBRANIUM... So NOTHING is getting knocked down, or blown up.
Even ALL the clothing of the soldiers is made of Vibranium.
The Wakandan Soldiers don’t even need a LEGIT Black Panther suit for themselves.
All they have to do is wear a hoodie, some gloves, plus grab a BASIC 'ski mask' & a pair of cheap sunglasses from the nearest 'Wakanda $0.99 Cents Store'.... and you cannot shoot them down.
They could even be on the battlefield... wearing du-rags.... while dressed like Chris & Snoop... and STILL open countless delivery trucks, filled with 'kegs of whup-ass'.
You can't blow up their strategic military targets... nor their buildings... or their jets.... and you can't 'gun down' their footsoldiers.
All those armies wouldn’t even be able to ‘topple a single hut’... in Wakanda.
Now what???
SSssshhhhhheeeiiiiittt.... Every Army Soldier in the world would have to ‘crouch down’ & HIDE behind Captain America's Shield.... just to stand a 'fighting chance'.
They don’t want no smoke... from Wakanda. Trust.
Ok so again, you think that they'd only send armies? I mean you're acting as if they are the only ones with super powers on the planet.
Yeah their tech is amazing, but c'mon man... There's more than just Wakanda we're talking about here
Umm... ok, so WHO exactly are they gonna send? Spider-man? The Avengers?
You'd definitely need a TEAM of Avengers-level superheroes (Or better) to take over ALL of Wakanda.
You really think the Avengers are gonna invade Wakanda............. on behalf of the US Government? C'mon son.
Even if the Avengers WANTED to do it (which is doubtful
)...- The Hulk HATES (and does not trust) US Military Generals who have tried to imprison/kill/control him.... so count him out.
- Black Widow and Hawkeye would 'get their asses handed to them'... so count them BOTH out.
- The Wakandans are saving Bucky's life... so Captain America ain't gonna do shit to fuck that up
.... so count him out. - The Falcon ain't going nowhere.... WITHOUT Captain America
... so count him out too. - Ant-Man's suit would get melted by Wakandan Tech... and he knows it... so count him out.
- Spider-Man is 'not enough'... plus he got too much homework... so count him out.
- Thor just lost Asgard... he's worried about 'finding a new home' for his own people... so count him out.
- Shuri would nullify whatever 'weapon of mass destruction' Tony Stark could even invent... so count him out.
- War Machine ain't going nowhere.... WITHOUT Iron Man
... so count him out too. - The Scarlett Witch lost Sakovia... she knows what it's like to be 'invaded' by (robotic) colonizers... so count her out.
- Vision ain't going nowhere.... WITHOUT The Scarlett Witch's 'permission'
... so count him out too. - The Guardians of the Galaxy don't even live on Earth, so they don't GAF about Wakanda
... so count ALL of them out too. - The Defenders have a hard enough time controlling NYC... they definitely NOT BUILT for Wakanda... so count ALL of them out too.
- The Fantastic 4 are STRUGGLING to even get back into the Marvel Universe VIP section... so count ALL of them out too.
- Doctor Strange would catch a few Vibranium Slugs... right in the middle of 'casting a spell'... so count him out too.
- Even if the Fantastic 4 decided to invade Wakanda 'on their own'.... 20th Century Fox would fuck it up... so count ALL of them out.
Again.- The X-Men only deal with Evil Mutants... they won't overthrow 'peaceful sovereign governments'.... so count ALL of them out too.
- There's no more SHIELD... and Nick Fury is living 'off the grid'... so count ALL of them out too.
- DC Comic book characters don't even exist in this Universe... so count ALL of them out too.
- All of the enemies that these folks have defeated are either dead, or locked up... and CANNOT be trusted (or controlled) by any Military Organizations whatsoever... so count ALL of the 'bad guys' out too.
Ssshhheeeeiiiittt.... Who the hell is left???
Last edited:
You really think the Avengers are gonna sit it out while a rogue nation attempts to take over the world? A nation of black people, on top of that?Umm... ok, so WHO exactly are they gonna send? Spider-man? The Avengers?
You'd definitely need a TEAM of Avengers-level superheroes (Or better) to take over ALL of Wakanda.
You really think the Avengers are gonna invade Wakanda............. on behalf of the US Government? C'mon son.
Even if the Avengers WANTED to do it (which is doubtful
- The Hulk HATES (and does not trust) US Military Generals who have tried to imprison/kill/control him.... so count him out.
- Black Widow and Hawkeye would 'get their asses handed to them'... so count them BOTH out.
- The Wakandans are saving Bucky's life... so Captain America ain't gonna do shit to fuck that up
- The Falcon ain't going nowhere.... WITHOUT Captain America
- Ant-Man's suit would get melted by Wakandan Tech... and he knows it... so count him out.
- Spider-Man is 'not enough'... plus he got too much homework... so count him out.
- Thor just lost Asgard... he's worried about 'finding a new home' for his own people... so count him out.
- Shuri would nullify whatever 'weapon of mass destruction' Tony Stark could even invent... so count him out.
- War Machine ain't going nowhere.... WITHOUT Iron Man
- The Scarlett Witch lost Sakovia... she knows what it's like to be 'invaded' by (robotic) colonizers... so count her out.
- Vision ain't going nowhere.... WITHOUT The Scarlett Witch's 'permission'
- The Guardians of the Galaxy don't even live on Earth, so they don't GAF about Wakanda
- The Defenders have a hard enough time controlling NYC... they definitely NOT BUILT for Wakanda... so count ALL of them out too.
- The Fantastic 4 are STRUGGLING to even get back into the Marvel Universe VIP section... so count ALL of them out too.
- Doctor Strange would catch a few Vibranium Slugs... right in the middle of 'casting a spell'... so count him out too.
- Even if the Fantastic 4 decided to invade Wakanda 'on their own'.... 20th Century Fox would fuck it up... so count ALL of them out.
- The X-Men only deal with Evil Mutants... they won't overthrow 'peaceful sovereign governments'.... so count ALL of them out too.
- There's no more SHIELD... and Nick Fury is living 'off the grid'... so count ALL of them out too.
- DC Comic book characters don't even exist in this Universe... so count ALL of them out too.
- All of the enemies that these folks have defeated are either dead, or locked up... and CANNOT be trusted (or controlled) by any Military Organizations whatsoever... so count ALL of the 'bad guys' out too.
Ssshhheeeeiiiittt.... Who the hell is left???
Ok...
Have a good night, sir.
Nah bruh, you just 'moved the goalposts'.You really think the Avengers are gonna sit it out while a rogue nation attempts to take over the world? A nation of black people, on top of that?
Ok...
Scroll up.
The original debate was... the whole world was gonna SEND THEIR ARMIES at Wakanda... once they found out about Vibranium.
Not... Wakanda is planning to SEND THEIR OWN ARMY OUT 'to try to take over the world'.
There's a big difference between 'antagonizing'.... and 'defending'.
You think Captain America is gonna be all 'gung ho' to run up into Wakanda.... when they haven't 'done anything' at all... and was just minding their business?
Not at all.Especially when they have been SITTING on Vibranium for THOUSANDS of years... and NEVER tried to 'take over the globe' before today.
They could have taken over the whole planet... 200 years ago. Or more.
So yes, I think the Avengers probably WOULD sit that fight out.
Along with Professor X... and many others.
(I even listed the 'reasons why'. )Have a good night, sir.
Last edited:
Lol that was NEVER my argument, how did I move goalposts? Read what I originally typed. I've asked from them the beginning, do you REALLY THINK they're only going to send armies?
The entire time I was thinking about the Avengers, I just never said it because I was hoping you'd eventually pick up what I was putting down...
The entire time I was thinking about the Avengers, I just never said it because I was hoping you'd eventually pick up what I was putting down...
Keyword: SEND
As in... Send Armies to Wakanda.
To take over.Not USE Armies to Defend against Wakandan Aggression.
There IS a difference.
And that difference is what motivates other Superheroes... to take action.
Similar threads
