A Real Man.

[BCAA2009]

Then those women aren't for him. And he needs to change his criteria for what he sees a "Woman" as. I personally find those kind of women childish and naive. I call it the "some day my prince will come" Syndrome. No matter how good a guy is. She thinks someone is out there better. Alot of decent guys will pass her by and she will let them go because "Some day my prince will come". Disney....Been fucking up relationships since 1934

To me they aren't women.............they are just females.

They haven't earned the title of being a "woman" because mentally, they haven't even left high school. Many women who are guilty of this are in their damn 30s and 40s.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

As much disdain as i have for wanna be so called MEN, i have for wanna be so called WOMEN. Both are screwing the pooch. You shouldn't look for either of the other when neither can see the benefits of you.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Let me check in, LI. You're post was really well thought out and I wanted to give it my full attention (this is a porn board and I get distracted). Some parts I agree with but others are the type of thing I feel women use in defining a "real man" that has nothing to do with manhood.

What does he value? Who does he value? Why does he value it? What are his strengths and his weaknesses. Devotion to his beliefs. Strength of character. How courageous he is to stand his own no matter what when he believes he is right. When he falls does he get back up? Or does he wallow in self pity and loathing? How hard does he have to be hit to break him? And if it doesn't break him....what does he learn?

All this ^^^^ These are important things a woman should look into and know about a man before she makes any real committment to him (marriage,kids).

Can he truly love? Can he keep his word? What does honor mean to him? When he makes a promise can i believe in it without a question?

This is where I go sideways on this. Most men can love just as most women but when a man chooses not to love a particular woman, he doesn't become less of a man. He just made a choice, a big one.
I do think it's important for a person to be trustworthy and to keep their word to the very best of their ability but broken promises are a part of life. Do I lose "man points" because I have to go against what I promised earlier? Personally, I rarely make promises so when I do, I know I can keep it. This is where forgiveness and understanding come in. Not saying a person should get infinite chances but there has to be some margin for error.

Does he love his family? How devoted is he to his childrens welfare? growth?

I'm with you there.

What about his extended family? Will he stop and really help an old lady across the street?

Not that meaningful at all. Some people aren't that close to extended family. Outside my own mother and siblings, I'm not close to much of my family. Every family has their own dynamic. It's not even fair to judge men on how they get on with their mothers without knowing the whole story.

Is he admirable? Is he giving? Is he honest? When i fall will he pick me up? How does he motivate me? Is he strong enough to carry me? Is he an upstanding man to whom others can look to for guidance? Wisdom?

Some of these are pretty good, but the others (the ones highlighted) are usually things that come with life experience. Again, has nothing to do with being a man.

Does he value me? What would he do for me? Is he willing to sacrifice for my happiness? Is he willing to defend me? How far is he willing to go to protect me? Us? His family? His friends? His neighborhood his people?

I really like and agree with this except the last part. The further that circle goes from my woman and my family, the less I'm willing to sacrifice. A man's first priority is his wife and family everything else is on first come-first served, I'll see what I can do basis. That may sound cold but I can't feed someone else if I'm hungry.

Can he remain calm in the heat of battle? Is he compassionate towards his enemies? does he seek understanding? Is he kind? Considerate? Does he hate black women? Does he view black women as the queen mothers of our species? Does he seek to help those who don't realize that themselves? What does he do for the young men of his community?

I can't see how any of this would make a man "real". Some of these are desirable traits but they shouldn't dealbreakers of any kind, with the exception of his feelings toward Black women.

How well does he understand human nature? How do you feel about humanity as a whole? Do you feel it's your duty to do what you can for them?

See my above response.

Do i have to tell you to mow the lawn? Trim the hedges? Put gas in my car?

Now this stuff was really petty and small. If I grew up in apartments my whole life and you grew up in houses, you might have to help a brother out with how to care for the lawn. And what if I get someone else to do it, do I lose "man points"?
So do I have to put gas in your car and my car or do we share a vehicle? Either way, you see that gas hand leaning on E, if you have it, put some gas in the car. Don't wait for me.

Do you remember important dates to me? Your children?

This can be important but it can also be very petty. After your birthday and our anniversary, why do I need to remember all those other dates? If they're important to you, you remember them and I'll celebrate them with you. Should a man expect his woman to remember the anniversary of the first time he saw a Mike Tyson fight live? Same with the kids. After the birthday, what else do I need to remember?

When you leave this world what have you done? What impression have you left on people? On your community? Who's life have you impacted in a positive way? How many people are working because of you? How many peoples lives have changed for the better because of you?

I do think legacy is important. It doesn't have to be grandiose but did you leave well adjusted offspring who aren't a burden on society? After that, nothing else really matters. You could leave a fortune to a thousand different institutions but if you're kids are messed up, you failed.

Many i presume/assume on this board would call my husband a simp. He loved his wife and kids. He loved his community and his people. He did everything he could for all of us. I loved that simp. And i try to be like him at all times. That's how he inspired me. So that's really what a real man is to me. My husband was all those things.

Nothing simpish about a man that loved and took care of his family. I think you misjudge the board (a little).

And he allowed me to be me. He didn't sweat the small things. He trusted me and i was able to trust him completely.

Then he did his job well.

I disagree with a statement that was made about a woman can't say what a real man is. And if she does she hasn't seen one. Why is this said?

Because when you ask them to define this mythical "real man" you find they don't know what they're talking about.
When the goal is to find a "real man", you'll always fail. Always. The goal should be to find the right man and good mate.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Let me check in, LI. You're post was really well thought out and I wanted to give it my full attention (this is a porn board and I get distracted). Some parts I agree with but others are the type of thing I feel women use in defining a "real man" that has nothing to do with manhood.

This is why the question is asked. This is why the thread was started. I wanted to see what women thought about this. It started from, a conversation i was having with my sisterwife and some friends of ours and my sisterwife is very much bisexual. She still finds men attractive. And i was basically being scolded from keeping her from ever being with another man again. TO WHICH...i vehemiently deny. Neither here nor there...But anyone it came up that my criteria for ever being with a man was too high. Now my belief is based in the fact that if 1 can do it? All can. There's no excuses. I EYE can do it? As a man...why can't you?

This is where I go sideways on this. Most men can love just as most women but when a man chooses not to love a particular woman, he doesn't become less of a man. He just made a choice, a big one.
I do think it's important for a person to be trustworthy and to keep their word to the very best of their ability but broken promises are a part of life. Do I lose "man points" because I have to go against what I promised earlier? Personally, I rarely make promises so when I do, I know I can keep it. This is where forgiveness and understanding come in. Not saying a person should get infinite chances but there has to be some margin for error.

If he doesn't CHOOSE that woman to begin with you mean? Or did he get into a relationship with this woman, make promises to her and then say, mmm NAH.?

Not that meaningful at all. Some people aren't that close to extended family. Outside my own mother and siblings, I'm not close to much of my family. Every family has their own dynamic. It's not even fair to judge men on how they get on with their mothers without knowing the whole story.

Personally there's a running theme around here that i actually agree with. If a guy doesn't get along with his mother then to me really he's going to be lacking in some form of dynamic. Some knowledge will be missed that he will need especially in dealing with me. He's either going to resent women or be overly zealous in trying to please them to the point of suffocation. Yes it needs to be looked into. He needs to be observed. But it's something for me to be wary of. The basic thing with that is...Does he take care of people?

I really like and agree with this except the last part. The further that circle goes from my woman and my family, the less I'm willing to sacrifice. A man's first priority is his wife and family everything else is on first come-first served, I'll see what I can do basis. That may sound cold but I can't feed someone else if I'm hungry.

It's not cold You do take care of your family and home first. You need a base. Without me being able to take care of him he couldn't go out and do what he did.

I can't see how any of this would make a man "real". Some of these are desirable traits but they shouldn't dealbreakers of any kind, with the exception of his feelings toward Black women.

Interesting because i think they're INTEGRAL.

See my above response.

I did.

Now this stuff was really petty and small. If I grew up in apartments my whole life and you grew up in houses, you might have to help a brother out with how to care for the lawn. And what if I get someone else to do it, do I lose "man points"?
So do I have to put gas in your car and my car or do we share a vehicle? Either way, you see that gas hand leaning on E, if you have it, put some gas in the car. Don't wait for me.

Small and petty can also be seen as concerned and loving/caring. Considerate. Honestly i added that in there because a friend of mine was complaining about her husband not doing house repairs. Chores around the house. My husband and i had just that understanding. He built the house for me he maintains the house for me. I make it a HOME for him. I do all those domestic duties. I cooked cleaned relaxed him. He took care of the house and the cars and made sure my tires were ok. If you got someone else to do it? I really wouldn't mind. No you don't lose man points. You do lose the me coming out and serving you lemonade in a bikini tho. PERKS BRUH!!!

This can be important but it can also be very petty. After your birthday and our anniversary, why do I need to remember all those other dates? If they're important to you, you remember them and I'll celebrate them with you. Should a man expect his woman to remember the anniversary of the first time he saw a Mike Tyson fight live? Same with the kids. After the birthday, what else do I need to remember?

He loves us to think about us and consider those things that are important to us. My husband remembered more anniversary dates than i did. And that's just 1 of the things i loved about him so much. It's the small things that REALLY matter. Mr. Upgrade. The remembering that your first time seeing a drive in movie together and planning a surprise to that same spot. It's the LITTLE things. When you remember the day your daughter took her first steps and you get her new shoes with a personal inscription on them for her. That's the little things that say, "hey i think about you. You're very important to me." Instead of grunting and saying hey i love you i'm here ain't i!

Nothing simpish about a man that loved and took care of his family. I think you misjudge the board (a little).

I don't know. I've been reading these spots for years now. Seems to be that way to me. Granted there's a few decent fellas around but for the most part? Hmmm.

Because when you ask them to define this mythical "real man" you find they don't know what they're talking about.
When the goal is to find a "real man", you'll always fail. Always. The goal should be to find the right man and good mate.

Why does he have to be mythical? I take this view and i try to spread it to my sistas as much as i can. Wait for what you want. And in the process make yourself a superstar. Become irresistable to the MAN you want. And when you are? He'll find you. Get your education on, get your grind on. Become worldly. Be productive. Be worthy of a good MAN. And he'll find you. The 1 you want. The issue comes in i believe when women feel they should get something they're not ready for.

 

[bootlegga]

I've come under fire lately about what my own personal views of what a real man is. It's not anything new. But what i'd like to do is see what other womens views of what a REAL MAN is. What do we think of when you say "I want a real man." I am told my basis for what a real man is, is unrealistic. And basically being told i want too much. I don't reallly WANT anything btw. Not for me personally. But i think for me to call you a MAN instead of a MALE? Then yes you need to meet certain criteria.

So ladies. Let me see what your view is. I guess if the guys want to chirp in as well. Feel free of course. I think it will be interesting.

being a dude, i never understood why females are so interested in defining a 'real man'. i don't sit around with my boys defining a 'real woman'...if anything, we discuss/observe 'women that would be right for us'...


but i suppose that a 'real man' is someone that doesn't break their word, that protects and provides for those most important to him, and who understands his role in this society, and his place in this world. if he wishes to change that, he has to will, the vision, and the focus to see it through to achieve what he desires.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

If he doesn't CHOOSE that woman to begin with you mean? Or did he get into a relationship with this woman, make promises to her and then say, mmm NAH.?

Either way. If we're in a relationship and I choose to end it because my feelings have changed, am I wrong? Or am I doing the honest thing?

Personally there's a running theme around here that i actually agree with. If a guy doesn't get along with his mother then to me really he's going to be lacking in some form of dynamic. Some knowledge will be missed that he will need especially in dealing with me. He's either going to resent women or be overly zealous in trying to please them to the point of suffocation. Yes it needs to be looked into. He needs to be observed. But it's something for me to be wary of. The basic thing with that is...Does he take care of people?

Maybe but you have to be careful on how tightly you scrutinize that situation as an outsider. There are and have been a lot of crappy mothers and that mother/son bond may be with a grandmother or another woman who raised him and who may already have passed on. The devil's in the details and before people slap that broad brush on a man, it's best to know what's going on.

Interesting because i think they're INTEGRAL.

Can't see it. Can't understand having any compassion for enemies (defeats the purpose of having enemies) or how my understanding of human nature matters at all. I need to understand my woman's nature, the rest of them will be alright.
I think people should have similar mindsets about life though. A pessimist is always a poor match for an optimist just as an idealist is a nightmare for a realist.

Small and petty can also be seen as concerned and loving/caring. Considerate. Honestly i added that in there because a friend of mine was complaining about her husband not doing house repairs. Chores around the house. My husband and i had just that understanding. He built the house for me he maintains the house for me. I make it a HOME for him. I do all those domestic duties. I cooked cleaned relaxed him. He took care of the house and the cars and made sure my tires were ok. If you got someone else to do it? I really wouldn't mind. No you don't lose man points. You do lose the me coming out and serving you lemonade in a bikini tho. PERKS BRUH!!!

Every couple should have an equitable and negotiable division of labor. But it has to be mutually agreed on and any changes have to be as well. Your friend backed herself into a corner and now she's stuck. Instead of complaining to you, she needs to talk (not nag or whine) to her husband.
That said, a man isn't born knowing how to fix cars and refrigerators anymore than a woman is knowing how to cook.
I understand perks but I'm not going under that car for nobody especially if you're only offering what I already get. I change flats and pump gas, I'm done. She knew I wasn't Mr. Meineke when she married me.

He loves us to think about us and consider those things that are important to us. My husband remembered more anniversary dates than i did. And that's just 1 of the things i loved about him so much. It's the small things that REALLY matter. Mr. Upgrade. The remembering that your first time seeing a drive in movie together and planning a surprise to that same spot. It's the LITTLE things. When you remember the day your daughter took her first steps and you get her new shoes with a personal inscription on them for her. That's the little things that say, "hey i think about you. You're very important to me." Instead of grunting and saying hey i love you i'm here ain't i!

I admit, I'm good with the anniversaries but it should be looked at as a bonus for your man (or whoever) to remember those little dates and not a prerequisite.

I don't know. I've been reading these spots for years now. Seems to be that way to me. Granted there's a few decent fellas around but for the most part? Hmmm.

Women should know not to listen/read into anything men say around other men when it comes to relationships because a lot of it is macho chest thumping. Many of them speak from either a lack of experience or bitterness (much like we accuse some women of doing).

Why does he have to be mythical?

Because he is. There are plenty of decent cats out there but your "real man" might be someone else's simp, buster, loser or whatever negative term they want to use. Even a guy who fit all the criteria as a "real man" still might not be a good fit so has he become less "real"?
The term "real men" has become a way to sell books to women to can't find or keep a man but don't want to make any changes about themselves. It must be the men's fault that I'm alone and lonely (two different things).

I take this view and i try to spread it to my sistas as much as i can. Wait for what you want. And in the process make yourself a superstar. Become irresistable to the MAN you want. And when you are? He'll find you. Get your education on, get your grind on. Become worldly. Be productive. Be worthy of a good MAN. And he'll find you. The 1 you want.

And learn how to be less about "me" and more about "we" and sometime be able to be about "he". A woman should never lose herself but if she wants a man who makes her a priority, she's got to be willing and able to do that for him.

The issue comes in i believe when women feel they should get something they're not ready for.

 

[dHustla]

any other ladies gonna comment?



Don't tell me there are only 2 brave souls willing to comment...

they some punks!

 

[melonpecan]

I think i see what you're getting at here. You're looking to me it seems on a very personal level. I could be wrong. I'd ask you to elaborate in due time when you're feeling better. Please?

I do understand though what i THINK you're getting at. To me my husband was so good he had all the qualities i wished i had in myself when we got together. I wished i had his nobility. His honor. His strength of purpose. His courage. His flat out WILL. His desire to keep going no matter what happened to him. A bit about me i saw(see) myself as so weak. So frail. And as a woman i know i have my strengths. I know i do. But i didn't see them the way i saw things in him. And seeing those things in him made me want to be a better me.

But he, he would always say he was those things so i didn't have to be. My own strengths are what pulled him to me. And we balance each other. As a woman i'm not supposed to be certain things that he is. It throws the balance of nature off. I have come to believe this through our travels and adversities together.

He was strong where i was weak. And vice versa. As nature intended it to be. We're both strong people. Just different balancing areas.

Let me make one of those addendums / side notes.

Relationships should be 50 whether it is a marriage, brother / sister, sister / sister, parent / child, etc. We have to know our weaknesses and our strengths and where to get what we lack, (and see what we can give), in our relationships with other people. It takes (to me) a real man or woman to recognize this and to navigate it mastefully in your network of people. Not everybody can do it but like most of us, (raises hand), it's a lifetime lesson. But like GI Joe said "Knowing is half the battle".

That brings me to another thing. You don't / can't be a real man / woman by the time you are 20. You have to live first. You can be damn on your way there but in order for you to be 'real' you have to be able to list what got you there...simply paying a bill or saying something profound once in a while doesn't cut it...sorry I'm ranting again.


LI you are almost right...part of what I said comes from just personal experience, (I have become very good at being unbiased), and part of it was just plain personal. Sometimes it takes some real shit, I mean REAL SHIT, for you to realize what is in you and what is in the people around you. You don't always know it and the people involved don't know it either. But if you can get through it and realize something a little wiser and live your life accordingly that is just one of those instances that you jot down as a life experience on the way to 'realdom'.


I hope I'm not all over the place with this.

 

[kjxxxx]

This definition can only be given within certain context, culture, history, lifestyle, etc.

For instance if a man is mentally or physically challenged to where he cannot carry out some of the functions most of you have stated a real man should do, does that make him not a real man?

Back in the days of slavery, since the men would have problems performing certain fuctions does that make him a fake man.

During economic downturns, famine, wars, etc, when peoples actions are sometimes forced and the desire for self preservation kicks in.

What about situations where religion kicks in, where one religion believe a man should behave a certain way which is contradictory to what some of you have said then who is right?

In the circle of a mobsters, pimps, gladiators, the definition of a real man would be somewhat different.

In the circle of gays that definition would be different.

One time the women would say a real man would not stand by and let a man disrespect his mom or his woman. Men lost their lives or got injured because of defending a womans honor.

To somewhat echo the earlier poster. It is more important that you look at people for who they are and how they matter or should matter to you. Appreciate the man as a person and if one has met the criterias you looking for in a mate then great.

 

[dHustla]

If he chooses to live his life as a drug dealer, selling crack to his people? Contributing to the destruction of his people? Killing them? I just don't see how this a MAN makes. This is Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn grown to adulthood. This is 1 point i disagree with.

You may not agree with his life choices, but he is still a MAN. He played/plays the hand that he was/is dealt.
Remember, no two individuals are going to agree on everything. This man may sell crack but still give back.
I realized when I lost a good homeboy and I would ask GOD, "why you take my homebody away and leave me here to stay/", that the good people aren't all the way good and the bad people aren't all the way bad.

You being judgmental of a man's choices speaks of your own character more than his.

I find this way of thinking not beneficial to the whole. While i do believe a man needs to make his own way in the world. If he chooses to have a family, heck even be PART of a COMMUNITY he needs to contribute. But how do i respect someone who's only here for themselves? Who has no regard for others?

I believe you're way off with how you responded to that. I think kwaz was referring to how some people need validation from their social environment even though their environment may not be going where they want to go or their environment doesn't share the same aspirations.

A selfish aspect of males that i find reprehensible.

Your definition....which i respect your opinion. I don't knock you for posting at all. I just dissgree with it fundamentally.

Let me tell you this... a man that takes care of those that don't have his best interest at heart is foolish with his resources, time, and energy. And will soon be bankrupt in whatever sense he was giving.

People that don't mean you well will only take, and never give back. These are the selfish people you are thinking about. I am only one man, I cannot save the world. I will contribute to it, but only to those that are also willing to contribute.

Think about it in these terms, how can I make progress as a builder if I'm giving to a destroyer. I build for a week, he destroys for a week..... we have accomplished NOTHING!

 

[dHustla]

True story from a few weeks ago: the bitter, divorced afte less than 3 years of marriage cousin of my ex (my ex comes from a family where NONE of the women have or can keep a man, from my ex, her cousin, her aunts, and her mother) got mad & told me I needed to learn to be a man. Now (not bragging or seeking props for doing what I'm supposed to be doing) I go to work every day, pay taxes, bills, child support, and fight tooth & nail thru the courts for my rights as a father even though my ex tries to deny them from me. but I'm not a "real man" to them.

I told her she needs to learn what a man is and how to keep one first.

Damn!

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Either way. If we're in a relationship and I choose to end it because my feelings have changed, am I wrong? Or am I doing the honest thing?

This is 1 of those things i just do not see. Most ESPECIALLY if children are involved. This is a topic all on it's own really. But no i do not believe that you change your feelings. There's a reason why they changed. Something happened. Something took place and you(figurative you) didn't work at it. You let it fall to the way side. Something happened. So no i don't get with that at all. It would be honest to fix the relationship ahead of time. Work at it ahead of time. BUT..........to be fair. I will say stuff happens. But for ME personally? A divorced man? Is out of the running with me unless his wife was Pain Killer Jane or something. It would take an extreme circumstance for me to consider him worthy material. Because to me if he was in a relationship with a woman and he just changed his feelings? Well he's not very trustworthy and if he promised me things he's definitely not trustworthy. Why put myself and my family through it?

Maybe but you have to be careful on how tightly you scrutinize that situation as an outsider. There are and have been a lot of crappy mothers and that mother/son bond may be with a grandmother or another woman who raised him and who may already have passed on. The devil's in the details and before people slap that broad brush on a man, it's best to know what's going on.

Rewind selecta. My bad. We were talking about mothers. I take into account grands and any other female figures who raised him. My bad for misrepresenting that.

Can't see it. Can't understand having any compassion for enemies (defeats the purpose of having enemies) or how my understanding of human nature matters at all. I need to understand my woman's nature, the rest of them will be alright.
I think people should have similar mindsets about life though. A pessimist is always a poor match for an optimist just as an idealist is a nightmare for a realist.

This is something my husband taught me. Believe me where i'm from? I didn't believe in letting anyone remain breathing let alone having compassion for them. But it bleeds into other aspects of what a man is to me. Understanding. KNowing why they do what they do. lends itself into how best to deal with them. Holding a grudge. Being angry at them. Having anger towards them clouds his judgement. He strove for balance. He could go to war with you and at the end of the day let you survive when you'd already been beaten.

Every couple should have an equitable and negotiable division of labor. But it has to be mutually agreed on and any changes have to be as well. Your friend backed herself into a corner and now she's stuck. Instead of complaining to you, she needs to talk (not nag or whine) to her husband.
That said, a man isn't born knowing how to fix cars and refrigerators anymore than a woman is knowing how to cook.
I understand perks but I'm not going under that car for nobody especially if you're only offering what I already get. I change flats and pump gas, I'm done. She knew I wasn't Mr. Meineke when she married me.

Yeah she did. By getting with that sorry so n so in the first place. Complaining about him doing the house things is the LEAST of her worries in my view. Not under the car. I'm talking how good he looked out there mowing the yard. trimming the hedges. Cutting fire wood in the winter. Redo'ing shingles or building a shed. Bringing him something cold to drink while he did all that care for the home. For the family. It's how WE see it. Mr. Upgrade. We see him doing this for US. Women i mean. And if they don't? They should. Now taking care of my car? That's ensuring his woman's safety. Putting gas in my car? is making sure if i'm out running errands at night or some thing i had gas to make sure i don't have to stop and put gas in it at some stupid dark abandoned ole gas station somewhere where i could be raped and killed(It's happened). Stuff like that isn't a PERK to me. It's mandatory. The thought and attention to detail.

I admit, I'm good with the anniversaries but it should be looked at as a bonus for your man (or whoever) to remember those little dates and not a prerequisite.

I believe being attentive to us is a quality every MAN should have.

Women should know not to listen/read into anything men say around other men when it comes to relationships because a lot of it is macho chest thumping. Many of them speak from either a lack of experience or bitterness (much like we accuse some women of doing).

Good point. I know this and i always brushed over it before. I still do. But you know that was the drawback of this place. Alot of hate and bitter boys running off at the finger tips.

Because he is. There are plenty of decent cats out there but your "real man" might be someone else's simp, buster, loser or whatever negative term they want to use. Even a guy who fit all the criteria as a "real man" still might not be a good fit so has he become less "real"?
The term "real men" has become a way to sell books to women to can't find or keep a man but don't want to make any changes about themselves. It must be the men's fault that I'm alone and lonely (two different things).

Honestly what i believe it is? And i guess it's late enough in posting to say this? I believe alot of guys KNOW what they should be. They KNOW what they should do. They just don't want to be. They lack the courage to be MEN. So they say i'm weak take me as i am. Yeah i sell crack but i'm a cool guy. Oh yeah i just laze around the house and do nothing but hey i'm human...take me as i am. All i'm saying is males can do better. I believe they KNOW they can. They're just too cowardly to do so. Too selfish







[/QUOTE]

 

[dHustla]

Let me check in, LI. You're post was really well thought out and I wanted to give it my full attention (this is a porn board and I get distracted). Some parts I agree with but others are the type of thing I feel women use in defining a "real man" that has nothing to do with manhood.




All this ^^^^ These are important things a woman should look into and know about a man before she makes any real committment to him (marriage,kids).



This is where I go sideways on this. Most men can love just as most women but when a man chooses not to love a particular woman, he doesn't become less of a man. He just made a choice, a big one.
I do think it's important for a person to be trustworthy and to keep their word to the very best of their ability but broken promises are a part of life. Do I lose "man points" because I have to go against what I promised earlier? Personally, I rarely make promises so when I do, I know I can keep it. This is where forgiveness and understanding come in. Not saying a person should get infinite chances but there has to be some margin for error.


I'm with you there.


Not that meaningful at all. Some people aren't that close to extended family. Outside my own mother and siblings, I'm not close to much of my family. Every family has their own dynamic. It's not even fair to judge men on how they get on with their mothers without knowing the whole story.




Some of these are pretty good, but the others (the ones highlighted) are usually things that come with life experience. Again, has nothing to do with being a man.



I really like and agree with this except the last part. The further that circle goes from my woman and my family, the less I'm willing to sacrifice. A man's first priority is his wife and family everything else is on first come-first served, I'll see what I can do basis. That may sound cold but I can't feed someone else if I'm hungry.




I can't see how any of this would make a man "real". Some of these are desirable traits but they shouldn't dealbreakers of any kind, with the exception of his feelings toward Black women.



See my above response.



Now this stuff was really petty and small. If I grew up in apartments my whole life and you grew up in houses, you might have to help a brother out with how to care for the lawn. And what if I get someone else to do it, do I lose "man points"?
So do I have to put gas in your car and my car or do we share a vehicle? Either way, you see that gas hand leaning on E, if you have it, put some gas in the car. Don't wait for me.



This can be important but it can also be very petty. After your birthday and our anniversary, why do I need to remember all those other dates? If they're important to you, you remember them and I'll celebrate them with you. Should a man expect his woman to remember the anniversary of the first time he saw a Mike Tyson fight live? Same with the kids. After the birthday, what else do I need to remember?



I do think legacy is important. It doesn't have to be grandiose but did you leave well adjusted offspring who aren't a burden on society? After that, nothing else really matters. You could leave a fortune to a thousand different institutions but if you're kids are messed up, you failed.



Nothing simpish about a man that loved and took care of his family. I think you misjudge the board (a little).



Then he did his job well.



Because when you ask them to define this mythical "real man" you find they don't know what they're talking about.
When the goal is to find a "real man", you'll always fail. Always. The goal should be to find the right man and good mate.

Da muthafuckin' truf!

*stands next to Dave arms folded in b-boy stance*

 

[dHustla]

This is why the question is asked. This is why the thread was started. I wanted to see what women thought about this. It started from, a conversation i was having with my sisterwife and some friends of ours and my sisterwife is very much bisexual. She still finds men attractive. And i was basically being scolded from keeping her from ever being with another man again. TO WHICH...i vehemiently deny. Neither here nor there...But anyone it came up that my criteria for ever being with a man was too high. Now my belief is based in the fact that if 1 can do it? All can. There's no excuses. I EYE can do it? As a man...why can't you? ...

the fuck is a sisterwife?

 

[dHustla]

Why does he have to be mythical? I take this view and i try to spread it to my sistas as much as i can. Wait for what you want. And in the process make yourself a superstar. Become irresistable to the MAN you want. And when you are? He'll find you. Get your education on, get your grind on. Become worldly. Be productive. Be worthy of a good MAN. And he'll find you. The 1 you want. The issue comes in i believe when women feel they should get something they're not ready for.

I agree. Too many women want and feel they deserve what they haven't and are not willing to work for.

 

[True Real Info]

nobody is in a position to define anyone else as "real or fake" until they have a total grasp on themselves....looking for something "Real" in others implies fakeness on the lookers part, because we are what we attract, and if someone attracts wack mates....thats gods way of saying look in the mirror....

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Let me make one of those addendums / side notes.

Relationships should be 50 whether it is a marriage, brother / sister, sister / sister, parent / child, etc. We have to know our weaknesses and our strengths and where to get what we lack, (and see what we can give), in our relationships with other people. It takes (to me) a real man or woman to recognize this and to navigate it mastefully in your network of people. Not everybody can do it but like most of us, (raises hand), it's a lifetime lesson. But like GI Joe said "Knowing is half the battle".

That brings me to another thing. You don't / can't be a real man / woman by the time you are 20. You have to live first. You can be damn on your way there but in order for you to be 'real' you have to be able to list what got you there...simply paying a bill or saying something profound once in a while doesn't cut it...sorry I'm ranting again.

I've spent the better part of all morning explaining this to a youngin....smh

LI you are almost right...part of what I said comes from just personal experience, (I have become very good at being unbiased), and part of it was just plain personal. Sometimes it takes some real shit, I mean REAL SHIT, for you to realize what is in you and what is in the people around you. You don't always know it and the people involved don't know it either. But if you can get through it and realize something a little wiser and live your life accordingly that is just one of those instances that you jot down as a life experience on the way to 'realdom'.


I hope I'm not all over the place with this.

Sis this is what i'm sayin. smh. I can't be with someone who hasn't been in LIFE. I can't be with no caged bird. I can't be with nobody who can't take a punch in the gut when life decides to buck up. When my husband passed i had 2 ladies stick by me. Through my EXTREMELY hard time. And they're still with me. Refusing to back down from all the shit that gets thrown at me.

Adversity makes your stronger. Adversity makes you wiser. Adversity i believe even makes you a better person. Through trials and tribulations is when you see what you're made of. I believe alot of people get into the shit in life and realize, yeah i'm not all that strong after all. Lemme sit my ass back down here and whine a bit about it. Maybe i can leech onto someone walking by.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

This definition can only be given within certain context, culture, history, lifestyle, etc.

For instance if a man is mentally or physically challenged to where he cannot carry out some of the functions most of you have stated a real man should do, does that make him not a real man?

Back in the days of slavery, since the men would have problems performing certain fuctions does that make him a fake man.

During economic downturns, famine, wars, etc, when peoples actions are sometimes forced and the desire for self preservation kicks in.

What about situations where religion kicks in, where one religion believe a man should behave a certain way which is contradictory to what some of you have said then who is right?

In the circle of a mobsters, pimps, gladiators, the definition of a real man would be somewhat different.

In the circle of gays that definition would be different.

One time the women would say a real man would not stand by and let a man disrespect his mom or his woman. Men lost their lives or got injured because of defending a womans honor.

To somewhat echo the earlier poster. It is more important that you look at people for who they are and how they matter or should matter to you. Appreciate the man as a person and if one has met the criterias you looking for in a mate then great.

Thanks for the post. It's posts like this that i wanted to see. Things to spark angles of thought. Thank you. And i agree with you. Different times did call for different values.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

You may not agree with his life choices, but he is still a MAN. He played/plays the hand that he was/is dealt.
Remember, no two individuals are going to agree on everything. This man may sell crack but still give back.
I realized when I lost a good homeboy and I would ask GOD, "why you take my homebody away and leave me here to stay/", that the good people aren't all the way good and the bad people aren't all the way bad.

You being judgmental of a man's choices speaks of your own character more than his.

Understood. We just differ.

Let me tell you this... a man that takes care of those that don't have his best interest at heart is foolish with his resources, time, and energy. And will soon be bankrupt in whatever sense he was giving.

I disagree. But my view of best interests could be different. The family is tight, you help out Roscoe. Roscoe doesn't really care about you. But you help out Ros simply because you can. You're not bankrupted for it. You've got it to give. And just MAYBE Roscoe may do the same thing to someone else 1 day.

People that don't mean you well will only take, and never give back. These are the selfish people you are thinking about. I am only one man, I cannot save the world.

You can try. 1 soul at a time. lol jk.

Think about it in these terms, how can I make progress as a builder if I'm giving to a destroyer. I build for a week, he destroys for a week..... we have accomplished NOTHING!

Not quite sure of the angle you're taking here....Why would you be building for a week and letting someone destroy it? What way were you thinking i was speaking of?

 

[kwazdog]

If he chooses to live his life as a drug dealer, selling crack to his people? Contributing to the destruction of his people? Killing them? I just don't see how this a MAN makes. This is Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn grown to adulthood. This is 1 point i disagree with.

In my view a man devoid of excessive vanity and ego would never consider being a drug dealer, yet alone injure or harm another human being aside from self defense or the preservation of others. If he were to deal drugs (most likely weed or drugs with low toxicity) it would be for his immediate survival (food) and the needs of those with his well being in mind.. His clients mostly so called recreational users. how ironic. Me personally, it would take some serious shit for me to even consider selling drugs...

I find this way of thinking not beneficial to the whole. While i do believe a man needs to make his own way in the world. If he chooses to have a family, heck even be PART of a COMMUNITY he needs to contribute. But how do i respect someone who's only here for themselves? Who has no regard for others?

There is no whole externally the only whole is through the self. If one is "right" with his or herself one can effortlessly be "right" with his surroundings I.E. community. If one "loves" himself as a priority he is capable of loving others without internal bias or contention. I guess it boils down to the age old debate of what love is or means. When I say love or self in most cases I am referring to higher/deeper human consciousness.

A selfish aspect of males that i find reprehensible.

I think you are confusing "self fullness" with selfishness... we are not too familiar with this ideal in the west because externality is promoted in nearly every aspect of our lives.

Why would any rational human "take care" of any adult that does not have his or her best interests mind? Children and handicapped folks are the only exception, because they do not have the ability to survive on their own.. The irony is I've spent the better part of my life being highly compassionate to most people without discretion and it only lead to suffering and loss of "center/self".Poster child for the nice guy! The only reason I was driven to be "compassionate" was because i did not believe in myself and my own abilities on a subconscious level. Most humans seem too preoccupied with external acquisition, weather it be a man, woman, finances etc... We are the the directors of our collective realities independently (confucian aint it!? lol), I find many many women to exude SEEMNIGLY selfish qualities and I used to find it equally reprehensible. I have grown to find women's behavior less bothersome over time in relation to how much I cater to the welfare of my own mind. I believe self fullness" is the pathway to true compassion. I believe once "we" become self-full as a race (human race) then there will truly be a "WE".

Your definition....which i respect your opinion. I don't knock you for posting at all. I just dissgree with it fundamentally.

We agree to disagree and thats awesome in its own right.

 

[kwazdog]

You may not agree with his life choices, but he is still a MAN. He played/plays the hand that he was/is dealt.
Remember, no two individuals are going to agree on everything. This man may sell crack but still give back.
I realized when I lost a good homeboy and I would ask GOD, "why you take my homebody away and leave me here to stay/", that the good people aren't all the way good and the bad people aren't all the way bad.

You being judgmental of a man's choices speaks of your own character more than his.



I believe you're way off with how you responded to that. I think kwaz was referring to how some people need validation from their social environment even though their environment may not be going where they want to go or their environment doesn't share the same aspirations.



Let me tell you this... a man that takes care of those that don't have his best interest at heart is foolish with his resources, time, and energy. And will soon be bankrupt in whatever sense he was giving.

People that don't mean you well will only take, and never give back. These are the selfish people you are thinking about. I am only one man, I cannot save the world. I will contribute to it, but only to those that are also willing to contribute.

Think about it in these terms, how can I make progress as a builder if I'm giving to a destroyer. I build for a week, he destroys for a week..... we have accomplished NOTHING!

Bingo, Bingo and Bingo!!!


we seem to share congruent points of view.

 

[kwazdog]

I've spent the better part of all morning explaining this to a youngin....smh



Sis this is what i'm sayin. smh. I can't be with someone who hasn't been in LIFE. I can't be with no caged bird. I can't be with nobody who can't take a punch in the gut when life decides to buck up. When my husband passed i had 2 ladies stick by me. Through my EXTREMELY hard time. And they're still with me. Refusing to back down from all the shit that gets thrown at me.

Adversity makes your stronger. Adversity makes you wiser. Adversity i believe even makes you a better person. Through trials and tribulations is when you see what you're made of. I believe alot of people get into the shit in life and realize, yeah i'm not all that strong after all. Lemme sit my ass back down here and whine a bit about it. Maybe i can leech onto someone walking by.

C/S

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

nobody is in a position to define anyone else as "real or fake" until they have a total grasp on themselves....looking for something "Real" in others implies fakeness on the lookers part, because we are what we attract, and if someone attracts wack mates....thats gods way of saying look in the mirror....

Interesting take Thanks.

 

[BCAA2009]

Damn shame none of the other ladies chimed in. Oh well, you tried homie.

 

[OnnaReal]

Jumpin' in late...

Appreciate MelonPecan and L.I. for taking this on.

This definition, to me, is rhetorical. There can be no definitive answer. At best, it is the term meant to get an emotional response in an argument.

It's slang.

It's the term that turns the argument without an equivalent response. i.e. "You're not a Real Woman" just never equates.

So, searching for a definition is as big a waste of time as explaining that food stamps, rent subsidy and child support ain't a "come up" to a closed mind [male or female].

By the time a man gets to "I'm a get me a White Girl!" as a retort, it's clear there's no real conversation going on anyway.

In my experience, when having conversation about relationships with a woman that I'm interested in [who shares some interest in me], the measurement of my manhood or her womanhood doesn't come up. We're too busy with figuring out if we can really get along well enough to want to keep getting along.

1

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

In my view a man devoid of excessive vanity and ego would never consider being a drug dealer, yet alone injure or harm another human being aside from self defense or the preservation of others. If he were to deal drugs (most likely weed or drugs with low toxicity) it would be for his immediate survival (food) and the needs of those with his well being in mind.. His clients mostly so called recreational users. how ironic. Me personally, it would take some serious shit for me to even consider selling drugs...

I think there's confusion. I was disagreeing with what you had said about a man basically does what he wants. When he wants and how he wants he is free. I disagreed with it because in my view a REAL MAN(to those who don't like it oh well) does not have this attitude. Does not have this feeling that he can do whatever he wants to whomever he wants. A real man acts responsibly in respect to his enviornment. But here you say you believe a man would never consider being a drug dealer. I agree with you there. Very much so. There is no honor in it.

There is no whole externally the only whole is through the self. If one is "right" with his or herself one can effortlessly be "right" with his surroundings I.E. community. If one "loves" himself as a priority he is capable of loving others without internal bias or contention. I guess it boils down to the age old debate of what love is or means. When I say love or self in most cases I am referring to higher/deeper human consciousness.

I see where you're going. I understand it. I believe that we are the whole. We're part of many wholes. A man must truly be whole...so i agree with you...in order to make everything around him whole. Or at least attempt too. I personally...just don't like to call it love. Maybe it's just semantics? I don't know yet.

I think you are confusing "self fullness" with selfishness... we are not too familiar with this ideal in the west because externality is promoted in nearly every aspect of our lives.

I like this. And i agree very much. People are entirely too external in their way of living

Why would any rational human "take care" of any adult that does not have his or her best interests mind? Children and handicapped folks are the only exception, because they do not have the ability to survive on their own.. The irony is I've spent the better part of my life being highly compassionate to most people without discretion and it only lead to suffering and loss of "center/self".Poster child for the nice guy! The only reason I was driven to be "compassionate" was because i did not believe in myself and my own abilities on a subconscious level.

To your question. About why would you take care of any adult. What are you meaning by this? I've got to go look how these words were meant originally.

How i mean it. If i'm the 1 who said it....How i take it is like this. I used an example earlier. Lets say you needed something. A muffler for your car to get to work. I had the ability to help you with that muffler. I give you the money for that muffler. I'm not expecting nor do i WANT anything in return. You're a grown man. I don't expect you to have my best interests in your person. You obviously have your own problems and issues to deal with. This is all i mean. Giving a helping hand to your fellow man because you can.

We agree to disagree and thats awesome in its own right.

No insults. No childish behaviour. Listening to points, discussing and disagreeing. Ain't life grand? Maybe even learning something along the way!

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Damn shame none of the other ladies chimed in. Oh well, you tried homie.

In due time bro.

 

[kwazdog]

I think there's confusion. I was disagreeing with what you had said about a man basically does what he wants. When he wants and how he wants he is free. I disagreed with it because in my view a REAL MAN(to those who don't like it oh well) does not have this attitude. Does not have this feeling that he can do whatever he wants to whomever he wants. A real man acts responsibly in respect to his enviornment. But here you say you believe a man would never consider being a drug dealer. I agree with you there. Very much so. There is no honor in it.




I see where you're going. I understand it. I believe that we are the whole. We're part of many wholes. A man must truly be whole...so i agree with you...in order to make everything around him whole. Or at least attempt too. I personally...just don't like to call it love. Maybe it's just semantics? I don't know yet.





I like this. And i agree very much. People are entirely too external in their way of living




To your question. About why would you take care of any adult. What are you meaning by this? I've got to go look how these words were meant originally.

How i mean it. If i'm the 1 who said it....How i take it is like this. I used an example earlier. Lets say you needed something. A muffler for your car to get to work. I had the ability to help you with that muffler. I give you the money for that muffler. I'm not expecting nor do i WANT anything in return. You're a grown man. I don't expect you to have my best interests in your person. You obviously have your own problems and issues to deal with. This is all i mean. Giving a helping hand to your fellow man because you can.




No insults. No childish behaviour. Listening to points, discussing and disagreeing. Ain't life grand? Maybe even learning something along the way!

I like the way you think, you seem like a "truth seeker". In the grand scheme of things thats all that matters, as long as you try (To seek truth in all things).

I used to have a saying:

"There are two types of ppl in the world, those that seek comfort and those that seek truth." You seem like the latter.

I hope you understand your value as a minority amongst your female peers.

 

[dHustla]

To your question. About why would you take care of any adult. What are you meaning by this? I've got to go look how these words were meant originally.

How i mean it. If i'm the 1 who said it....How i take it is like this. I used an example earlier. Lets say you needed something. A muffler for your car to get to work. I had the ability to help you with that muffler. I give you the money for that muffler. I'm not expecting nor do i WANT anything in return. You're a grown man. I don't expect you to have my best interests in your person. You obviously have your own problems and issues to deal with. This is all i mean. Giving a helping hand to your fellow man because you can.

But black woman... the problems lies in you giving to a cause that is not your own. Shawty ain't got a muffler for a reason, and for whatever other reason he can't afford one. He wasn't trying his best, he wasn't/isn't applying himself.
I don't ask people to do things for me that I can do for myself. Why? Because I have a sense of responsibility to myself. I don't get much help... it's overrated anyway. I get shit done on my own, and if I can't, no one should suffer or be inconvenienced but me. Why? Because I'm no one's responsibility but my own.

Let that nigga walk to work until he can get his own muffler, it builds character. You 'paying it forward' in hopes that he does the same won't contribute to building his character. In fact, it's more handicapping than anything else.

Be a help meet, not a hindrance.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

But black woman... the problems lies in you giving to a cause that is not your own. Shawty ain't got a muffler for a reason, and for whatever other reason he can't afford one. He wasn't trying his best, he wasn't/isn't applying himself.
I don't ask people to do things for me that I can do for myself. Why? Because I have a sense of responsibility to myself. I don't get much help... it's overrated anyway. I get shit done on my own, and if I can't, no one should suffer or be inconvenienced but me. Why? Because I'm no one's responsibility but my own.

Let that nigga walk to work until he can get his own muffler, it builds character. You 'paying it forward' in hopes that he does the same won't contribute to building his character. In fact, it's more handicapping than anything else.

Be a help meet, not a hindrance.

Hey thats your view of things. Appreciate the posts.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

This is 1 of those things i just do not see. Most ESPECIALLY if children are involved. This is a topic all on it's own really. But no i do not believe that you change your feelings. There's a reason why they changed. Something happened. Something took place and you(figurative you) didn't work at it. You let it fall to the way side. Something happened. So no i don't get with that at all. It would be honest to fix the relationship ahead of time. Work at it ahead of time. BUT..........to be fair. I will say stuff happens. But for ME personally? A divorced man? Is out of the running with me unless his wife was Pain Killer Jane or something. It would take an extreme circumstance for me to consider him worthy material. Because to me if he was in a relationship with a woman and he just changed his feelings? Well he's not very trustworthy and if he promised me things he's definitely not trustworthy. Why put myself and my family through it?

Just on marriage (on basis boyfriend/girlfriend relationships with no children, people's feeling change all the time but let's narrown our topic), I don't think most people change just to be doing it. People allow their marriages to die by not working on them as hard as they work on their careers or whatever else they put before it.
Being married, I'm a big fan of good marriages and I think spouses should work to save them (if salvageable) but much like what we were discussing with mother/son relationships, no one knows what happened in a failed marriage but those two people and any judgement should be reserved until you can get as much of the whole story as you can get.

Rewind selecta. My bad. We were talking about mothers. I take into account grands and any other female figures who raised him. My bad for misrepresenting that.

Then we're straight.

This is something my husband taught me. Believe me where i'm from? I didn't believe in letting anyone remain breathing let alone having compassion for them. But it bleeds into other aspects of what a man is to me. Understanding. KNowing why they do what they do. lends itself into how best to deal with them. Holding a grudge. Being angry at them. Having anger towards them clouds his judgement. He strove for balance. He could go to war with you and at the end of the day let you survive when you'd already been beaten.

I don't think the only two options are being compassionate and holding a grudge. I think one of the worst sayings is "I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy". Bullshit. That the one person I would wish it on. But grudges do bleed over so I've always just managed to walk away after whatever happened to make us enemies has passed and give them as little as possible. Your husband had a good idea though in trying to understand the other person's motivation. It's easier to combat them if you understand them.

Yeah she did. By getting with that sorry so n so in the first place. Complaining about him doing the house things is the LEAST of her worries in my view. Not under the car. I'm talking how good he looked out there mowing the yard. trimming the hedges. Cutting fire wood in the winter. Redo'ing shingles or building a shed. Bringing him something cold to drink while he did all that care for the home. For the family. It's how WE see it. Mr. Upgrade. We see him doing this for US. Women i mean. And if they don't? They should. Now taking care of my car? That's ensuring his woman's safety. Putting gas in my car? is making sure if i'm out running errands at night or some thing i had gas to make sure i don't have to stop and put gas in it at some stupid dark abandoned ole gas station somewhere where i could be raped and killed(It's happened). Stuff like that isn't a PERK to me. It's mandatory. The thought and attention to detail.

I gotcha on the idea, I just think a woman should appreciate how her man expresses that instead of thinking he has to do it a certain way.
I definitely try to handle the maintenance on the car because I worry about something happening while my wife's in it alone but boy, your husband had a gene I definitely lack. That wood would have been safe in my yard. And I swore off cutting grass and lawncare as soon as I moved out of my mother's house. But I can clean a kitchen like nobody's business.

I believe being attentive to us is a quality every MAN should have.

Agreed.

Good point. I know this and i always brushed over it before. I still do. But you know that was the drawback of this place. Alot of hate and bitter boys running off at the finger tips.

Honestly what i believe it is? And i guess it's late enough in posting to say this? I believe alot of guys KNOW what they should be. They KNOW what they should do. They just don't want to be. They lack the courage to be MEN. So they say i'm weak take me as i am. Yeah i sell crack but i'm a cool guy. Oh yeah i just laze around the house and do nothing but hey i'm human...take me as i am. All i'm saying is males can do better. I believe they KNOW they can. They're just too cowardly to do so. Too selfish







[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I'll get back to this when I get home from work.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

I like the way you think, you seem like a "truth seeker". In the grand scheme of things thats all that matters, as long as you try (To seek truth in all things).

I used to have a saying:

"There are two types of ppl in the world, those that seek comfort and those that seek truth." You seem like the latter.

I hope you understand your value as a minority amongst your female peers.

Very much so a truth seeker. Reality has slapped me in the face TOO many times to sit around and pretend and want to act like the world is made of Palm Trees and Blonde bitches. Fantasy has never had much use for me. Looking to be comforted doesn't do anything for you long term. And of all the things my husband taught me was to think LONG TERM.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Just on marriage (on basis boyfriend/girlfriend relationships with no children, people's feeling change all the time but let's narrown our topic), I don't think most people change just to be doing it. People allow their marriages to die by not working on them as hard as they work on their careers or whatever else they put before it.
Being married, I'm a big fan of good marriages and I think spouses should work to save them (if salvageable) but much like what we were discussing with mother/son relationships, no one knows what happened in a failed marriage but those two people and any judgement should be reserved until you can get as much of the whole story as you can get.

If this were to happen yes a few points would be deducted from my "man" index defintion chart. Wouldn't completely disqualify. I do make allowances for temporary lapses. lol.

I don't think the only two options are being compassionate and holding a grudge. I think one of the worst sayings is "I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy". Bullshit. That the one person I would wish it on. But grudges do bleed over so I've always just managed to walk away after whatever happened to make us enemies has passed and give them as little as possible. Your husband had a good idea though in trying to understand the other person's motivation. It's easier to combat them if you understand them.

He had a belief that to conquer what you hate.fear.love Seek to understand it. Seek understanding in all the things. Everything he didn't like. He wanted to understand it. He wanted to understand himself. He was always digging and trying to figure things out.

I gotcha on the idea, I just think a woman should appreciate how her man expresses that instead of thinking he has to do it a certain way.
I definitely try to handle the maintenance on the car because I worry about something happening while my wife's in it alone but boy, your husband had a gene I definitely lack. That wood would have been safe in my yard. And I swore off cutting grass and lawncare as soon as I moved out of my mother's house. But I can clean a kitchen like nobody's business.

lol Nah uhmmmmm No. Getcha ayuss out MY kitchen. You gonna mess something up. I have it just how i like it. I like it how i like it cleaned. This is woman's work. Go outside, if you can't find nothing to do go somewhere. Don't be over here till it's time to get your plate. lol

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Honestly what i believe it is? And i guess it's late enough in posting to say this? I believe alot of guys KNOW what they should be. They KNOW what they should do. They just don't want to be. They lack the courage to be MEN. So they say i'm weak take me as i am. Yeah i sell crack but i'm a cool guy. Oh yeah i just laze around the house and do nothing but hey i'm human...take me as i am. All i'm saying is males can do better. I believe they KNOW they can. They're just too cowardly to do so. Too selfish

I agree with that to a certain degree. Part of it is also not knowing any better and not having anyone expect any better. If I can half-ass it with you, why should I change? If, as a woman or a man, you don't expect your spouse to do shit, don't be mad when they live up to expectations. That's why I hate the idea of romantic "unconditional love". It sets people up to be abused in some way by the other person because they should love them no matter what.
As a big fan of marriage, I always tell my friends and family before they do to imagine that thing the person they're in a relationship with does that annoys you to no end and imagine them doing it forever. That's reality. If you marry someone who cheats or is bad with money or abusive or whatever, marrying them only tells them that it's okay and you really don't mind that much.

I've spent the better part of all morning explaining this to a youngin....smh


Adversity makes your stronger. Adversity makes you wiser. Adversity i believe even makes you a better person. Through trials and tribulations is when you see what you're made of. I believe alot of people get into the shit in life and realize, yeah i'm not all that strong after all. Lemme sit my ass back down here and whine a bit about it. Maybe i can leech onto someone walking by.

Hell yeah.

 

[BCAA2009]

lol Nah uhmmmmm No. Getcha ayuss out MY kitchen. You gonna mess something up. I have it just how i like it. I like it how i like it cleaned. This is woman's work. Go outside, if you can't find nothing to do go somewhere. Don't be over here till it's time to get your plate. lol

Sadly, many, many females nowadays consider such things as OPPRESSION. You obviously enjoy doing what you do. It's also obvious that you were raised right and take pleasure in providing for your family. Hats off to you and the few women left that are like you.



She squirts on her husband and then cooks him meals........the foundation of any lasting marriage. Good shit L.I.