*********Official Lakers vs. Celtics NBA Finals Thread********

But what you don't seem to realize (a point that me and eewwll have already made) players aren't going to bust their ass on the defensive end of the floor if they know they are being let down time after time due to poor offensive efficiency.

Have you ever played the game before?:confused:

If guys are consistently frozen out on the offensive end of the floor, due to lack of ball movement, do you really think they'll continue to give full effort on the other end of the floor?

Well said.

The press will call it "Standing around waiting for Kobe to perform"

:confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
Re: Celtics NBA Finals Thread********

the most amusing part of the offense/defense question is that so-called fakers fans don't even comprehend how the triple post O properly sets up the fakers D.

but that's fakers fans for you.

if the shots are taken within the O, it leads to proper set-up for D.

but that's light years beyond fakers fans.

in the meantime, i'll continue rooting for tobe to continue taking more and more shots.

Exactly....

I figured the Lakers could win in 6 if they played the post.

My only hope for the C's was that LA would feel the pressure and Kobe would revert to form.......hijacking the O and blaming teammates.
 
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Re: Celtics NBA Finals Thread********

or if andrew bynum's word is no good.

Or if kevin garnett's word is no good.

How about glen davis' word?

q: How were you able to shut down the rest of the team outside of kobe?

davis: We just played ball. kobe took a lot of shots; so we were hoping he’d take a lot of shots to take away from everyone else. so that’s what happened. A lot of guys didn’t have the ball in their hands because kobe had the ball in his hands. If he can score, we’ll let him score. But we’ll make sure we try to hold everyone else defensively

!

end thread
 
Let Kobe Score - Bullshit...

Boston shot over 75% in the 3rd Quarter. If they shot 45%, Lakers would have won, but they didn't. Why is no one looking at that?

Game 4 - people complained that Kobe didn't do enough. Game 5- his team is shooting 33% and he took 12 shoots in the first half.

The problem for LA is defense. If they don't find a way to deal with the Pierce pick and Roll - its Boston.
 
Let Kobe Score - Bullshit...

Boston shot over 75% in the 3rd Quarter. If they shot 45%, Lakers would have won, but they didn't. Why is no one looking at that?

Game 4 - people complained that Kobe didn't do enough. Game 5- his team is shooting 33% and he took 12 shoots in the first half.

The problem for LA is defense. If they don't find a way to deal with the Pierce pick and Roll - its Boston.

none of that matters. its kobes fault, everytime they lose, its his fault. this will never change.
 
none of that matters. its kobes fault, everytime they lose, its his fault. this will never change.

I think yall look to defend Kobe so much that you arent getting what we are saying. I havent said anything negative about his individual performance.

Im just saying that the Lakers cant win with one player dominating the ball. They dont play their best that way. The Lakers, as a team, need to get back to the fundamentals and get the ball in the post...especially early. Their offense is getting less and less team-oriented.

Artest is playing like shit...but the other Lakers are not... they just arent getting enough touches on the offensive end.
 
I think yall look to defend Kobe so much that you arent getting what we are saying. I havent said anything negative about his individual performance.

Im just saying that the Lakers cant win with one player dominating the ball. They dont play their best that way. The Lakers, as a team, need to get back to the fundamentals and get the ball in the post...especially early. Their offense is getting less and less team-oriented.

Artest is playing like shit...but the other Lakers are not... they just arent getting enough touches on the offensive end.

im agreeing with you. debating about the lakers/kobe gives me a headache.
 
Lakers win game 3, Kobe takes 29 shots. Hits only 10.

Lakers win game 1, Kobe takes 22 shots, hits only 10.

Differences

1) Lakers actually play Defense
2) Gasol, Bynum dominate Glass

If I follow its all Kobe's fault logic, Celtics should have swept the Lakers.
 
Lakers win game 3, Kobe takes 29 shots. Hits only 10.

Lakers win game 1, Kobe takes 22 shots, hits only 10.

Differences

1) Lakers actually play Defense
2) Gasol, Bynum dominate Glass

If I follow its all Kobe's fault logic, Celtics should have swept the Lakers.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
an explanation is coming
 
Lakers win game 3, Kobe takes 29 shots. Hits only 10.

Lakers win game 1, Kobe takes 22 shots, hits only 10.

Differences

1) Lakers actually play Defense
2) Gasol, Bynum dominate Glass

If I follow its all Kobe's fault logic, Celtics should have swept the Lakers.
b-b-b-b-b-b.... those touches take everyone out the game!

Gasol isn't getting the ball where he needs it, this is true though. What also is true is that the Celtics re getting away with a TON of contact on Gasol. A TON.

Bynum is more hurt now than he was earlier in the series.

LA still was close, but three missed free throws by Artest, a blown call by the refs, and a costly turnover sealed the game. LA has to play sharper down the stretch, but by that time they were playing from behind.

Certain posters only talk about the offensive side of the ball, and while I always feel Gasol could use more touches, this occurs even when Kobe is on the bench - but the bigger problem is defense. If you have a team in the FINALS, that can't play defense because they aren't getting enough shots then you have a team ready to lay down and lose.

Look at the Celtics - they damn near force fed Paul Pierce early in this game, KG a couple games ago, and Ray Allen in game 2. They still played with energy and tenacity.

When LA keeps Boston in the 40s, they have a chance. Boston shot 56% and LA 39%. That's the true story.
 
ahhh, fuck it, i'll answer this.

its not about the amount of shots:rolleyes: its when he takes them and how he takes them, meaning, what is the offensive set when he shoots the ball;)

That's pretty much it. In the third quarter you can't knock that really. The team was ice cold in the first half, including Kobe. He got hot, and was able to keep it from being laughable - because even if he moved the ball around, LA was still GIVING UP BUCKETS on the other side.

In the fourth, three of his shots came in desperation time. 30 seconds left LA down by 7. They needed a three - but Ron Artest has lost his shot, and Derek Fisher was off.
 
T.J. SIMERS
Lakers' Kobe Bryant has no use for teamwork



http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers-20100614,0,4142467,full.column


Their do-everything leader might not lead L.A. to a win, but it makes for some interesting entertainment when he tries to take over the game.
By T.J. Simers

June 13, 2010 | 11:20 p.m.
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From Boston

Finally some fun, the only disappointment — Our Ball Hog didn't take every shot. And score 93 points.

I just love Our Ball Hog when he puts on a one-man show like this, after all, this is only Sunday night entertainment unless you somehow think your life changes whether the Lakers win or not.

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He scored 23 straight points between the second and third quarters, many of them dancing off one leg and falling backward, the other guys on his team just running around and letting the Celtics score so he might shoot again.

This was superstar basketball, almost a made-for-TV movie, one against five in a dramatic shootout.

He scored the first 19 points in the third quarter for the Lakers, the Lakers down by 11 when he started ignoring the rest of his teammates and down by 11 when he had finished.

Over the years it doesn't always mean the Lakers are going to win when Our Ball Hog loses sight of everyone else, but you've got to admit it's the best in basketball entertainment.

In addition to scoring, he's also going to give dirty looks to any teammate who doesn't get him the ball, which is good for a chuckle if you're watching. And tell me you didn't grin or laugh when TV caught him coaching, pointing to himself and insisting he be the one to cover Paul Pierce.

Later, I heard he wanted to fly the plane home, too.

Our Ball Hog took 27 shots, maybe some of them were forced, but that's become a part of his game. He scored 38 points, the reason folks watch the NBA to see the game's best score.

I know Phil Jackson likes to emphasize teamwork and all that other nonsense that makes a coach think he has an impact on the game, but I expect we won't know how he really feels about Our Ball Hog until his next book.

For now, he said, "he's the kind of guy you ride a hot hand, that's for sure." And "we were waiting for him to do that."

But then as he often does, he offered contradictory remarks. He said, "You know, other than that, you look at the assists, we had 12; they had 21. That's a big differential in a game like this."

And that's because the ball was in Our Ball Hog's hands and he wasn't giving it up.

Jackson also opened his postgame remarks by saying the game turned on "a couple turnovers by [Our Ball Hog)," the Celtics then running out to a 10-point lead.

He's got a point there. Our Ball Hog can't play much better than he did in the third quarter, but the Lakers were down by six points when it started and after a few wild misses, he left just before the end of the quarter and they were losing by 10.

What do you want? A win, and in this series they have been ugly and not all that interesting, or a tremendous night of entertainment and athletic prowess you might never see again?

That performance in the third quarter was chilling.

Do you really care if a bunch of millionaires get another diamond ring? That third quarter was as good as almost any NBA player will ever have — one shocking shot atop another — just priceless.

I've been to a couple Lakers parades, and there is nothing in terms of excitement to surpass the show put on by Our Ball Hog here.

The Lakers still get a chance to win a championship, and have a pretty good chance at that if they just play to their level of talent, which from the start this season should have been better than any other team assembled.

Las Vegas odds makers already have them a seven-point favorite in Game 6 because they will be home, and because more than anyone else, Our Ball Hog wants to win it.

We know this because of the look on his face, his serious demeanor during postgame news conferences and because he's always telling us he wants to win more than anyone else.

Some folks might worry his teammates might object to everything always being about him. But as you might expect, the wimps, otherwise known as his teammates, were fine with him after the game because they had to fly home with him.

They don't get a ring if Our Ball Hog isn't the guy dictating the opposition's terms of surrender, so they really are just along for the ride. They're just going to have to adapt to whatever game he chooses to play.

I think we would all agree if Our Ball Hog has the ball, it means Ron Artest does not, which is a very good thing for the Lakers.


I might not go this far

If the Lakers win Game 6 and Kobe hits the game winner he will have a different tune.
 
All that crying and complaining from LA Fans about 56 FG% ... :rolleyes:

You know that Yall shot 26 Free Throws vs Boston Shooting only 13FT??

Oh and that INCLUDES the end of the game when LAKE SHOW tried to foul to get the ball back??

:itsawrap:
 
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I might not go this far

If the Lakers win Game 6 and Kobe hits the game winner he will have a different tune.

Yeah this is just hatred...if the Celtics blow that lead in the 4th quarter Jackson is a genius for letting Kobe loose in the 3rd when the lakers were flat and Kobe is the second coming for putting his team on his back...

Keep it REAL:
The problem in Game 5 was that no one stepped up in the fourth quarter....Gasol, Artest, Odom was absent and so was fish...Kobe is not getting a decent look that late in the game after what he did in the 3rd so one of those guys need to step up

A lot of those shots in the 3rd came after 2-3 passes or the clock winding down iirc...

Funny thing is Lebron gets criticized for NOT doing what Kobe did
 


Yeah this is just hatred...if the Celtics blow that lead in the 4th quarter Jackson is a genius for letting Kobe loose in the 3rd when the lakers were flat and Kobe is the second coming for putting his team on his back...

Keep it REAL:
The problem in Game 5 was that no one stepped up in the fourth quarter....Gasol, Artest, Odom was absent and so was fish...Kobe is not getting a decent look that late in the game after what he did in the 3rd so one of those guys need to step up

A lot of those shots in the 3rd came after 2-3 passes or the clock winding down iirc...

Funny thing is Lebron gets criticized for NOT doing what Kobe did

they couldnt step up because they were cold from kobe chucking them in the 3rd.:cool:
 
All that crying and complaining from LA Fans about 56 FG% ... :rolleyes:

You know that Yall shot 26 Free Throws vs Boston Shooting only 13FT??

Oh and that INCLUDES the end of the game when LAKE SHOW tried to foul to get the ball back??

:itsawrap:

The refs are trying to hand the lakers the game, and they still can't win
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Re: Celtics NBA Finals Thread********

They are showing a replay of the game right now on ESPN and in the 3rd qtr there wasn't one time that Kobe was the only one to touch the ball during his shooting spree. It was just like another poster said all his shots were taken in the rotation of the ball

or maybe he's right.

or if you don't care for andrew bynum's perspective, maybe you'd prefer NBA champion and NBA MVP kevin garnett's view:

Q. You've seen Kobe have a hot hand many times. For a defense, how much is that something to dread, how much is that maybe a good thing if other guys fall out of rhythm on his side, and how much is that something to ignore and stick to your own game plan?

KEVIN GARNETT: From the standpoint that he's providing points for his team and he's in a rhythm, it's a bit dangerous. But for the rhythm of his team, then it works in our favor.

:cool:

Q. Big game for you tonight, but talk about the ability to limit LA's big men to 26 points.

KEVIN GARNETT: Well, like I said, I thought Kobe for the most part provided a lot of the offense. He provided a lot of scoring. They usually run the triangle, and it really wasn't typical for what they did tonight. Our thing was to come in and rebound. That's the thing for these Finals. We've definitely got to do better on the boards as a group.

But for the most part those guys ‑‑ you know, I thought Pau did a good job when he did have it. He tried to get aggressive towards the end or whatever. But like I said, Kobe provided a lot of points for them. He was in a rhythm, and that's what it was


:lol:

or if andrew bynum's word is no good.

or if kevin garnett's word is no good.

how about glen davis' word?

Q: How were you able to shut down the rest of the team outside of Kobe?

Davis: We just played ball. Kobe took a lot of shots; so we were hoping he’d take a lot of shots to take away from everyone else. So that’s what happened. A lot of guys didn’t have the ball in their hands because Kobe had the ball in his hands. If he can score, we’ll let him score. But we’ll make sure we try to hold everyone else defensively


:cool:

:lol:

pookie, i have to say, i do admire your tireless willingness to be the stooge patsy every time. you always come in these basketball threads, put your ignorant foot in your mouth, and are simply too dumb to realize how foolish your co-signing of fellow fakers fans is. bravo!

What does this have to do with me saying that the ball was passed around in the 3rd quarter, i know you recorded the game so all you have to do is go back and watch that 3rd quarter. For Garnett to say Gasol did a good job is BS because not only did he get his shit stuffed THREE TIMES but most of his shots were from out of the post because he allowed Garnett to push him out of there time after time. Oh yeah what day does your vacation start?:lol:
 
The refs are trying to hand the lakers the game, and they still can't win
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

The refs tried to hand the Lakers a game???...U mean w/ 1:05 left giving Boston an extra possession when Allen threw up a shot that didn't hit the rim?..That turned a 2 to 1 opportunity in possessions into complete anarchy..u cant be fuccin serious???
 
The lakers made a big mistake by signing artest for one. He looks like he's out of place or doesn't belong. They should have gotten rid of bynum years ago. He's going to always have knee problems. The next game should be interesting. Hopefully the celtics can take care of this one man show like they did in 2008.
 
Here's the video from the 3rd quarter last night and how the Kobe haters don't wanna talk about the defensive end because it doesn't fit into their "its Kobes fault" cases. Someone point out to me how he froze his teammates out and caused them to be cold when they were cold the whole game. At the 6:28 mark you'll see Gasol was like 1-6
 
The refs tried to hand the Lakers a game???...U mean w/ 1:05 left giving Boston an extra possession when Allen threw up a shot that didn't hit the rim?..That turned a 2 to 1 opportunity in possessions into complete anarchy..u cant be fuccin serious???

The ball did hit the rim and the refs all agreed on that:yes:

Now the foul call discrepancy for the Lakers is just ridiculous:smh:
 
The ball did hit the rim and the refs all agreed on that:yes:

Now the foul call discrepancy for the Lakers is just ridiculous:smh:

Yeah they showed it CLEARLY on low angle and then they zoomed out and kept showing it from bad angles...WITHOUT the back board cam :smh:
 
Here is a great point made by J. Hollinger of ESPN. If the Celtics win, WHO THE FUCK IS THE FINALS MVP?

From ESPN Insider
yeah yeah, Colin, whatever…
BOSTON -- In an odd Finals filled with statistical oddities and in which each game has borne virtually no resemblance to its predecessor, it's perhaps fitting that through five games we're left with another unusual situation: There is no clear-cut choice for series MVP. In fact, if Boston were to close things out with a win in Game 6 on Tuesday, as many as four Celtics could garner serious consideration.

Of course, the MVP doesn't have to come from the winning team. While this isn't the letter of the rule it's been an unwritten law for the past four decades -- every Finals MVP since 1969 has come from the winning team. Alas, every rule has its exception, and after Sunday night's 38-point effort we may be looking at one in the form of Kobe Bryant.

While the Celtics deserve their 3-2 lead in the series, there's no question who the best player has been over these first five games. That point was driven home with a sledgehammer in Game 5 when Bryant scored 19 points in the third quarter only to find the Celtics' lead had increased when he was done.

This continued a Finals in which Bryant has had at least 20 points in every game, has had only one game that possibly could be construed as somewhere close to ordinary (Game 2), and has had a pair (Games 1 and 5) in which he was absolutely spectacular.
For the series, Bryant is averaging 30.2 points per game; no other player is averaging more than 19. He's done it reasonably efficiently too, with a 55.2 true shooting percentage in a series in which the average has been 53.4. That's amazing considering the difficulty of the attempts he's taken, especially in Game 5.

Bryant has filled the stat sheet in various and sundry other ways, too. Bryant leads all Finals players in steals, is second in assists and has yanked down six rebounds a game. About the only quibble one could make is that he's been a bit turnover-prone; of course, he's playing against the league's top turnover-forcing defense, so this shouldn't come as a huge shock.

And while the league doesn't award extra points for degree of difficulty, part of the reason Bryant has been forced into such challenging attempts is how little help he's received from the cavalry. Again, this point was hammered into our consciousness in the second half of Game 5 -- Pau Gasol was the only Lakers starter to score a basket after halftime, and the Spaniard's play was positively repulsive throughout (among his other assorted flubs, did anyone else catch him standing in the paint watching as Nate Robinson flew by for an easy fourth-quarter layup?).

If you're not sold on Bryant's MVP case yet, then consider the alternative. If not Kobe, who?

Rajon Rondo, who has yet to have a 20-point game and is 4-for-15 from the free throw line in the series? Ray Allen, who made a record eight 3-pointers in Game 2 but is 0-for-18 from distance in the other four games? Paul Pierce, who didn't become a factor in the series until Game 4? Kevin Garnett, who had only six points in Game 2 and has played only 30.8 minutes a game for the series?

The fact is Bryant has been by far the most productive player, and the only reason the Celtics are ahead is because five of the next six best players (the four above and supersub Glen Davis) have been wearing green. If series MVP voters are using their heads and not their hearts, Bryant is an obvious pick even with his team trailing.
There's an irony here, of course. I mentioned above that only one player has won Finals MVP in a losing effort; it was Bryant's idol and mentor, former Lakers star Jerry West. Wait, there's more. It came in the 1969 Finals … against the Celtics … against a veteran Boston team, in fact, that had won only 48 games and was seeded just fourth in the Eastern Conference at the start of the playoffs. L.A. ended up losing Game 7 at home despite 42 points, 13 rebounds and 12 assists from West.

A lot of water still has to go under the bridge for Kobe to join West, but suffice it to say that if Kobe goes for 42, 13 and 12 in a losing effort in the finale the award is probably his regardless of what anyone on the Celtics does.

Of course, Kobe would only join West if the Lakers did, in fact, lose the series. He could also go down in history more happily if the Lakers win the final two games. At this point I'd say it's a foregone conclusion that he'll win the award if that happens, with Gasol having essentially eliminated himself from further consideration with his performances in Games 4 and 5 and no other player coming close to Bryant statistically.

Alas, the odds of L.A. winning both games are not great. While the Lakers pulled the feat off against Detroit in 1988, historically teams trailing 3-2 in the Finals have lost the series 34 times out of 40. The last team to win in such circumstances was Houston in 1994; since then the past eight teams to lead 3-2 have won the series (Chicago in 1996, 1997 and 1998, L.A. in 2000, San Antonio in 2003 and 2005, Miami in 2006 and Boston in 2008).

However, optimists will point out that only Miami in 2006 and Chicago in 1998 were playing on the road in those final two games. Since the league went to a 2-3-2 format, teams coming home with a 3-2 deficit have won twice (Houston in 1994, L.A. in 1988) and lost four times (Dallas in 2006, Utah in 1998, Boston in 1985 and Phoenix in 1993).

Nonetheless, it's hard to be encouraged about the Lakers' plight right now, as one wonders where additional help may come from for Bryant. Most crucially, center Andrew Bynum has to play on a short turnaround after a six-hour flight; flying tends to hurt players recuperating from injuries because it encourages swelling and stiffness (the Celtics won't practice on Monday before heading to L.A. for that exact reason).

And few have forgotten that it was Bynum's absence that allowed Boston to bully Gasol, Lamar Odom and any other Lakers not wearing No. 24 in the 2008 Finals.
Thus, the odds are looking long for the Lakers' hopes of claiming a repeat championship, and all the talk about Bryant joining Magic in L.A.'s five-rings club may be wasted breath. Instead, there's a decent chance Bryant will join another legendary Laker in the history books, in a way that he probably wished he wouldn't.
 
Hahahahahhaah take whatever victories you can. So Tim Duncan is the greatest player of our generation.

Like Jordan he doesn't lose in the finals.

Two mvps

Three finals mvps

Four rings.

Oh and think bout this a Lakers team that is suppose to be stronger and better lose to the same older team two years later. Minus PJ brown cassell powe and posey.

While LA just spent money to lock on this core.

:yes:
 
Here's the video from the 3rd quarter last night and how the Kobe haters don't wanna talk about the defensive end because it doesn't fit into their "its Kobes fault" cases. Someone point out to me how he froze his teammates out and caused them to be cold when they were cold the whole game. At the 6:28 mark you'll see Gasol was like 1-6

let it go bruh. theres no point in arguing with some people. just get ready for game 6.
 
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