He was a specialist though. Best rebounder discussion? Hell yea.
Best PF? Hell Nah.
Another specialist. Best shooting PF? Hell yea. A discussion about best PF? Hell nah.
Greatest NBA Power Forward
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Best PF? Hell Nah.
Obviously not the best but just saying he is one of the best
He would be in the discussion if we had won that Finals
And he has always battled KG very tough
9x Allstar
1x MVP
4x All NBA 1st team
Tim Duncan is a center.
That's a big part of why championships are so overrated...Obviously not the best but just saying he is one of the best
He would be in the discussion if we had won that Finals
And he has always battled KG very tough
9x Allstar
1x MVP
4x All NBA 1st team
If the Jazz won one of those series against the Bulls, the poll results would be totally different. Same for Barkley's Suns. But that wouldn't have made them totally different players or markedly improved over the course of their entire careers.
Obviously not the best but just saying he is one of the best
He would be in the discussion if we had won that Finals
And he has always battled KG very tough
9x Allstar
1x MVP
4x All NBA 1st team
Malone and Barkley lost championships to the greatest player ever. How can that be held against them? Dirk pulled two of the biggest choke jobs in NBA history. First his team was up 2-0 in the Finals and lost four straight games, the last one being at home. After his team won 67 games in the regular season and Dirk won the MVP his #1 seed team lost to #8 Warriors. Dirk couldn't even get his team to a seventh game at home. When its go time its up to superstars to get it done and Dirk has shown when the pressure is on him he crumbles.
These two things take him out of the discussion as the greatest ever.
Fuck outta here...Jordan shitted on everybody.
Stop feelin sorry for these nigguz..
They was garbage
Stop feelin sorry for these nigguz..
They was garbage
Kevin mchale invented the post game tho
lol @ John starks a superstar
pass that strong pack you smoking
lol @ John starks a superstar
pass that strong pack you smoking
Only player I give props to who got shitted on by Jordan was Clyde drexler
he got shitted on...I'm tombout straight doo doo'd on.
He went and got a ring during the 90's when mike was out with the snowbunnies.
Also I remember when Scottie got shitted on by Kobe back in the day
he got shitted on...I'm tombout straight doo doo'd on.
He went and got a ring during the 90's when mike was out with the snowbunnies.
Also I remember when Scottie got shitted on by Kobe back in the day
I didn't even see that Finals but I know some say it was horribly officiated, not to make excuses for Dirk.
My major point wasn't that any of these players, especially Nowitzki, necessarily deserve to be held in higher esteem (though it IS held against them)... My point was that if their teams won, they would definitely be held in higher esteem. Regardless of any change in their personal performance. Barkley's Suns and Malone's Jazz are just two examples-- If the aforementioned John Starks shot 9-18 rather than 2-18, Patrick Ewing would get a lot more respect. Seems silly to me.
clyde drexler >
Exactly...
ain't even close…
Damn ya'll shitting on Dirk, Bird, hell even Shawn Kemp.
Out of this decade 2000-10, it has to be:
Tim Duncan- a staple of the San Antonio offense, and defense.
Dirk Nowinski- Nearly unstoppable on the offensive end. Average on defense.
Kevin Garnett- Passionate, yet at the end of his career. Excellent defender. Average Offensively.
YEA I SAID IT...
Peep game, lets not forget how things was when Garnett was in Minnesota. His teams barely could get out of the first round. The West is way stronger than the east since MJ left. Dirk, and Tim has been the best 2 pf in the west for a decade CONSISTENTLY hands down. Wins and stats do not lie.
KG benefited from ONE good trade for his ring. I would argue that if you put ANY of the three in that Boston deal, Boston would of won anyway.
Out of this decade 2000-10, it has to be:
Tim Duncan- a staple of the San Antonio offense, and defense.
Dirk Nowinski- Nearly unstoppable on the offensive end. Average on defense.
Kevin Garnett- Passionate, yet at the end of his career. Excellent defender. Average Offensively.
YEA I SAID IT...
Peep game, lets not forget how things was when Garnett was in Minnesota. His teams barely could get out of the first round. The West is way stronger than the east since MJ left. Dirk, and Tim has been the best 2 pf in the west for a decade CONSISTENTLY hands down. Wins and stats do not lie.
KG benefited from ONE good trade for his ring. I would argue that if you put ANY of the three in that Boston deal, Boston would of won anyway.
That's crazy. I'm a little taller than that, and I couldn't imagine trying fuck around down low with Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett... especially since you can't just roughhouse a motherfucker in the NBA.
Would the Timberwolves with the exact same personnel have been more successful with Tim Duncan instead of Kevin Garnett?
How would Kevin Garnett have fared if teamed with David Robinson from the beginning of his career?
Let's not forget that the Spurs were not a legitimate lottery team in terms of talent when they drafted Duncan...
The nigga was an 11x NBA Allstar with 23,757 career points and
12,546 career rebounds. That's impressive any way you want to cut it. Put down the pipe. There's probably an N.A. meeting someone in your town tonight.
if Duncan did commercials and displayed some emotion and some semblance of a personality, this would be unanimous.
if you had to pick an all-time starting five, hands down, Duncan would be your first PF. Scoring, rebounding, block shots, defense, passing, you name it, he does it and does it well. And he wins. period. he never had a superstar supporting cast (Parker and Manu are not superstars), but the man has 4 rings.
all the other players have at least 1 knock against them, whether it be defense or titles that you can hold against them.
if you had to pick an all-time starting five, hands down, Duncan would be your first PF. Scoring, rebounding, block shots, defense, passing, you name it, he does it and does it well. And he wins. period. he never had a superstar supporting cast (Parker and Manu are not superstars), but the man has 4 rings.
all the other players have at least 1 knock against them, whether it be defense or titles that you can hold against them.
I love Malone, but Elgin Baylor shits on all of these cats. Learn ya history niggas......
The Timberwolves would have been a flat out better team with Duncan... KG as good as a player as he is/was always, shy's away from pressure during the big games. He solely relies on other pressure players and defers to them 8/10 times during crunch time.
Malone, Duncan, Barkley and even Dirk took on the responsibility of being the man on their teams when push came to shove and they relish/relished in it, unlike Garnett who may be one of the best #2 option players in league history along with Pippen and McHale.
Makes a very good (and under reported) point about KG shying away in pressure situations. Other than the Dirk co-sign, i agree with the entire post. I just cannot put Dirk in the same category as Malone, Duncan, Barkley.
in the modern baskteball era, only charles barkley and shaquille o'neal have forced the NBA to create rules that limited their style of play.
not saying which way i vote 1 way or the other, but name another PF that changed the game in that manner. not excelled in the game, but changed it forever.
in the modern baskteball era, only charles barkley and shaquille o'neal have forced the NBA to create rules that limited their style of play.
not saying which way i vote 1 way or the other, but name another PF that changed the game in that manner. not excelled in the game, but changed it forever.
What was the rule change re: Barkley?
And what do you think of the scenario with Duncan drafted onto the Timberwolves and Garnett drafted onto the Spurs?
I think this is an important distinction-- I wrote "more successful," not "better."
The reason I think that the difference matters is that the basis for the comparison is that people are judging these players based on team success-- "rings"-- when the teams were on entirely different levels from jump.
It seems to me that Garnett would likely have more titles than Duncan in this scenario and that Duncan could very well be ringless to this day.
Also, don't forget the big conflict between Starbury and Garnett as to whose team it was re: his deference... Perhaps that could have been made worse with a more commanding or assertive Duncan?
i don't have a crystal ball for hypotheticals, so i prefer not to comment on those types of things.
however, i will say that i believe the minnesota timberwolves squandered kevin garnett's youth and 80% of his career by trying to convert him into a PF.
kevin garnett's game is and always has been that of a SF. but the people that strangely like to see lean athletes become bruisers advocated that he gain 30+ lbs and asked him to play the PF.
mistake.
Good question. I think the spurs still win in 99 with the shortened season and a still relevant and productive DRobinson. After that they dont win a fucking thing. Sure not in '03 with a on his last leg DRobinson and definately not in '05 with raw out of control Parker and Ginobili. The wolves would have won the title in 04 with Duncan at the helm and Cassell and Sprewell riding shotgun. He may not have won more titles but no Duncan led team would have made a career of getting hammered in the first round the way KG did on a yearly basis. As lead dogs and franchise players Duncan is simply the better player.
I picked Duncan too... but honestly, either you're too young to have watched Barkley play in the mid-80's through the mid-90's... or you're on crack
Like him or not, I can't understand how anybody who watched him over those years would say that shit down there. Yeah, it was mighty impressive that someone 6'5" could get up in there with guys a half foot taller than him and come out on top... but to say that his height is the only reason he was impressive is insane.
Like him or not, I can't understand how anybody who watched him over those years would say that shit down there. Yeah, it was mighty impressive that someone 6'5" could get up in there with guys a half foot taller than him and come out on top... but to say that his height is the only reason he was impressive is insane.
This question is tainted. First off Tim Duncan is a center and always has been. He was placed at power forward because the Spurs felt it was inappropriate to sit David Robinson when Duncan came into the league. It is the same as calling Ralph Sampson a 7-5 power forward because he played with Hakeem. They were both centers.
You young guys that are bringing up Bird, Baylor and Worthy have to know that they all played small forwards that posted at times a la Adrian Dantley and Mark Aguirre. There are some people that were left off this list. Bob Pettit, Elvin Hayes, Gus "Honeycomb" Johnson, Kevin McHale etc.
Out of the ones that are listed other than Duncan I would have to pick Malone. But I have issues with him because although he was probably a better power forward but Barkley was a better player and really can't be pigeon holed as either a power forward or a small forward.
As for Rodman. Please, he was a great rebounder and a great defender at times but he was not on these other guys' level.
You young guys that are bringing up Bird, Baylor and Worthy have to know that they all played small forwards that posted at times a la Adrian Dantley and Mark Aguirre. There are some people that were left off this list. Bob Pettit, Elvin Hayes, Gus "Honeycomb" Johnson, Kevin McHale etc.
Out of the ones that are listed other than Duncan I would have to pick Malone. But I have issues with him because although he was probably a better power forward but Barkley was a better player and really can't be pigeon holed as either a power forward or a small forward.
As for Rodman. Please, he was a great rebounder and a great defender at times but he was not on these other guys' level.
in this list i vote Tim (even tho he should be @ center) but my real vote is RODMAN
just because he is a 7-footer doesn't automatically make him a center. using that argument would mean that Magic would be a PF and Barkley a SG. Height don't mean jack.
and even after Robinson, there was always a center playing alongside Duncan whether it was Nazr, Oberto, or Nesterovic. you're calling these guys PFs?