Who Is The Greatest Nba Player Of All Time?
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The Great Rivalries: Russell vs. Wilt; Bird vs. Magic
By Bob Ryan
Bill Russell terrorized the NBA for three seasons. No one had ever seen anything quite like him.
Then came Wilt Chamberlain.
Bigger by at least three inches, stronger, arguably just as quick, and in possession of the greatest offensive skills from the center position the basketball world has yet seen, Chamberlain loomed as a major threat to Russell's supremacy. On the eve of the 1959-60 NBA season, many people automatically assumed that the Russell Era was over, that the next dozen years or so would belong exclusively to Wilt Chamberlain.
Carl Braun was not one of those people. The veteran Knicks guard had played against each of the pivot greats during the exhibition season, and he figured he knew what made Bill Russell tick after watching him play from the moment he entered the NBA, fresh from winning an Olympic gold medal, in December 1956.
"This challenge by Chamberlain is going to make [Russell] better than ever," Braun forecast. "He's got a lot of pride, and nobody is going to knock him off that All-Star team without a fight."
Red Auerbach couldn't have said it better. Nor could Bill Russell, of course. You want to talk about an A-1 prophecy, start with this one: The Bill Russell reign of terror was only beginning.
But so was the greatest individual subplot in American team sports history. For Wilt Chamberlain was every bit as gifted as his advocates believed. He would rewrite the NBA record book many times over. He would become the greatest individual force in the sport's history. And he would prod Bill Russell into playing some of his very best basketball. Absent Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell would have been great. But because of Wilt Chamberlain's terrifying presence, Bill Russell became, as the old Army ad said, all that he could be.
"People say it was the greatest individual rivalry they've ever seen," Russell says. "I agree with that. I have to laugh today. I'll turn on the TV and see the Knicks play the Lakers, and half the time Patrick [Ewing] isn't even guarding Shaq [O'Neal], and vice-versa. Let me assure you that if either Wilt's or Russ' coach had ever told one of them he couldn't guard the other guy, he would have lost that player forever!"
It was the great man-to-man confrontation of the sixties, and, as you will see, unquestionably the greatest individual rivalry in NBA history. But there was one other that certainly qualifies as an easy number two. More than a decade later, we would be treated to the other great meeting of basketball deities—Larry Bird and Earvin Johnson.
Bird and Magic. Unlike Russell and Chamberlain, their competition began in college. Michigan State's triumph over Bird's 33-0 Indiana State team in 1979 remains the highest-rated NCAA Championship Game of all time.
They were rivals caught up in a larger focus: namely, Boston versus L.A., both as teams and as cities. They played at a time when the NBA was firmly established and was gaining popularity, particularly on national television. They had similar skills, with a great love for passing, but Bird was a forward and Magic was a guard, and as such, they seldom guarded each other. Their matchup was more of a one-upsmanship thing, but it was no less passionate than the great Russell and Chamberlain meetings that had enthralled basketball fans in earlier times.
"About the only time we ever guarded each other was on a switch," Bird explains. "He'd be on me, and I'd say, "'Hey, I got a little one.'"
"Always," Magic confirms. "He'd say, 'Bring it here. I've got this little one on me.'"
But by the time Bird and Magic came along, the NBA was a far different place from the days of Russell and Wilt. As much as people want to rhapsodize about the rivalry, because the league had grown in size, the two only played against each other 37 times, with Magic and the Lakers holding a 22-15 edge over Bird and the Celtics.
Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain went at each other—are you ready?—142 times during the 10 years of their rivalry. Russell's Celtics won 85 while Wilt, who was with the Warriors, 76ers and Lakers during that period, was on the winning side 57 times. And that average of more than 14 meetings a year was only during the regular season and playoffs. They also played in many exhibitions against each other.
Now that, friends, is a rivalry.
Bird and Magic had their exhibition battles, too, since it was in the best business interests of both teams as well as the league to showcase these players and to promote this rivalry as much as possible. There was never any doubt where the great players themselves stood.
None of this "just another game" stuff for either of them. They were acutely aware of each other's movements.
Andrew D. Bernstein/NBAE/Getty Images
"When the new schedule would come out each year," Magic says, "I'd grab it and circle the Boston games. To me it was The Two and the other 80."
"The first thing I would do every morning was look at the box scores to see what Magic did," counters Bird. "I didn't care about anything else."
Now that's a rivalry.
What made each of these great rivalries take, of course, was that these epic confrontations were generally fought out at the highest level. Russell and Chamberlain (that is to say, Boston and Philadelphia/San Francisco/Los Angeles, due to Wilt's perambulations) played for the Eastern Conference title in 1960, 1962, 1965, 1966, 1967 and 1968, and for the NBA championship in 1964 (San Francisco) and 1969 (Los Angeles). Bird and Magic, each of whom spent his entire career with one team, played for the NBA championship in 1984, 1985 and 1987.
If you were to look at the Russell-Chamberlain rivalry strictly in terms of the individual numbers, you'd say, "What's the fuss?"
Chamberlain averaged exactly 28.7 points and 28.7 rebounds a game during those 142 games, the point totals brought down a bit by his late-in-career transformation from relentless scoring machine to more well-rounded player. In the early years Wilt scored 50 or more points seven times against Russell, including a high of 62 on January 14, 1962. By the time we could start referring to these men as "aging warriors," the numbers were a bit more back to earth. Wilt's high game in their final year was 35, and three times he scored in single figures.
Russell's totals against Wilt were 14.5 points and 23.7 rebounds per game. His highest-scoring game against his arch rival was 37.
But Russell had the ultimate trump card. He wound up on the winning side more often than not. In the 10 years in question, Russell won nine championships to Wilt's one. The argument will rage on forever: Did Wilt just not know how to win, or did he lack the supporting cast that Russell enjoyed?
Take the night he scored the 62. The Celtics won the game, 145-136. The Celtics led by 31 in the fourth quarter. Wilt scored 42 in the second half, but his team was never in the game. Russell fans say that was an all-too-familiar scenario when these two played, especially in the first five or six years of their duels.
Russell would never go there. He had, and has, nothing but the utmost respect for Wilt Chamberlain, who impressed him from the get-go.
"After I played him for the first time," Russell says, "I said, 'Let's see. He's four or five inches taller. He's 40 or 50 pounds heavier. His vertical leap is at least as good as mine. He can get up and down the floor as well as I can. And he's smart. The real problem with all this is that I have to show up!"
His appreciation grew with each passing year. By 1962, the third year of their rivalry, their teams would meet for the Eastern Conference championship. Wilt was pluperfectly monstrous that season, averaging a record 50.4 points per game. The series went seven games, with Russell and friends able to keep the Big Dipper under some kind of control. (In 12 playoff games that year, Wilt averaged 35 points and 27 rebounds.) A Sam Jones jumper with two seconds remaining won the seventh game by a 109-107 score, and Russell (19 points and 26 rebounds a game) immediately requested to be left alone for awhile.
"I haven't had any sleep all week," he said. "Every time I went out on the court, that guy seemed to grow a little taller."
The Celtics' championship tally grew as well, with Chamberlain being on the losing side in '64, '65 and '66. There was no doubt his frustration was mounting, but he was always civil in public when the issue was raised. After a 30-point, 39-rebound performance brought down the Celtics in Game 2 of the 1965 Eastern Conference Finals, for example, Russell heaped praise on his rival.
"The big fella was great, real great," he observed. "That was the best game he ever played against me."
Wilt's response: "I don't want to talk about this being a victory over Russell, but a victory over Boston.
There always was a larger context in both the Russell-Wilt and Bird-Magic rivalries. None of the four played in a vacuum. Russell once played on a team with seven future Hall of Famers, not including himself.
Wilt, at various times, played with Nate Thurmond, Paul Arizin, Billy Cunningham, Tom Gola, Hal Greer, Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, who are all in the Hall of Fame, not to mention Chet Walker and Guy Rodgers, who could be. Bird played with Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson and Bill Walton. Magic played with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, James Worthy, Jamaal Wilkes, Norm Nixon, Byron Scott and Michael Cooper.
So very seldom was it all about them as individuals. It usually was about how they fit into the team. That was surely the crux of the Bird-Magic thing—championships.
For awhile there was a nice symmetry. Magic won in '80. Bird won in '81. Magic won in '82. Bird won in '84. Magic won in '85. Bird won in '86.
But Magic and the Lakers took over, even as Bird's body was starting to break down. The favored Lakers won in 1987, but it took a Herculean effort to win the pivotal Game 4. Did someone say "one-upsmanship?" How about Bird drilling a nerveless corner three-pointer to put the Celtics ahead by one with seconds remaining, only to see Magic out-do him with a running hook over Bird, McHale and Parish—yes, all three—a shot Magic called his "junior, junior sky-hook."
Bird even had the last shot, another corner jumper that was a hair long.
"The thing between us was that neither team could ever relax," says Magic. "You never felt the game was over. That night was a great example.
Even after Larry misses, we were afraid to move. It was like . . . we won? . . .With individuals like us, and with two cities going crazy—not just two cities, but the world — there will never be another rivalry like it again."
We'll see. Magic may or may not be right. Shaquille O'Neal or Kevin Garnett vs. Tim Duncan or Alonzo Mourning? Vince Carter vs. Grant Hill? Why not Allen Iverson vs. Stephon Marbury? They're only an hour and a half apart, which helps. So it's possible.
But not probable. No one will ever again play each other 142 times, at least not officially, as did Wilt and Russ. Nor are we likely to get another white guy-black guy, country bumpkin-city slicker matchup with such parallel skills and basketball sensibilities, as Bird-Magic.
Let's just say, with great conviction, that these are the two greatest rivalries in NBA history, and all future ones will be measured against them.
By Bob Ryan
Bill Russell terrorized the NBA for three seasons. No one had ever seen anything quite like him.
Then came Wilt Chamberlain.
Bigger by at least three inches, stronger, arguably just as quick, and in possession of the greatest offensive skills from the center position the basketball world has yet seen, Chamberlain loomed as a major threat to Russell's supremacy. On the eve of the 1959-60 NBA season, many people automatically assumed that the Russell Era was over, that the next dozen years or so would belong exclusively to Wilt Chamberlain.
Carl Braun was not one of those people. The veteran Knicks guard had played against each of the pivot greats during the exhibition season, and he figured he knew what made Bill Russell tick after watching him play from the moment he entered the NBA, fresh from winning an Olympic gold medal, in December 1956.
"This challenge by Chamberlain is going to make [Russell] better than ever," Braun forecast. "He's got a lot of pride, and nobody is going to knock him off that All-Star team without a fight."
Red Auerbach couldn't have said it better. Nor could Bill Russell, of course. You want to talk about an A-1 prophecy, start with this one: The Bill Russell reign of terror was only beginning.
But so was the greatest individual subplot in American team sports history. For Wilt Chamberlain was every bit as gifted as his advocates believed. He would rewrite the NBA record book many times over. He would become the greatest individual force in the sport's history. And he would prod Bill Russell into playing some of his very best basketball. Absent Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell would have been great. But because of Wilt Chamberlain's terrifying presence, Bill Russell became, as the old Army ad said, all that he could be.
"People say it was the greatest individual rivalry they've ever seen," Russell says. "I agree with that. I have to laugh today. I'll turn on the TV and see the Knicks play the Lakers, and half the time Patrick [Ewing] isn't even guarding Shaq [O'Neal], and vice-versa. Let me assure you that if either Wilt's or Russ' coach had ever told one of them he couldn't guard the other guy, he would have lost that player forever!"
It was the great man-to-man confrontation of the sixties, and, as you will see, unquestionably the greatest individual rivalry in NBA history. But there was one other that certainly qualifies as an easy number two. More than a decade later, we would be treated to the other great meeting of basketball deities—Larry Bird and Earvin Johnson.
Bird and Magic. Unlike Russell and Chamberlain, their competition began in college. Michigan State's triumph over Bird's 33-0 Indiana State team in 1979 remains the highest-rated NCAA Championship Game of all time.
They were rivals caught up in a larger focus: namely, Boston versus L.A., both as teams and as cities. They played at a time when the NBA was firmly established and was gaining popularity, particularly on national television. They had similar skills, with a great love for passing, but Bird was a forward and Magic was a guard, and as such, they seldom guarded each other. Their matchup was more of a one-upsmanship thing, but it was no less passionate than the great Russell and Chamberlain meetings that had enthralled basketball fans in earlier times.
"About the only time we ever guarded each other was on a switch," Bird explains. "He'd be on me, and I'd say, "'Hey, I got a little one.'"
"Always," Magic confirms. "He'd say, 'Bring it here. I've got this little one on me.'"
But by the time Bird and Magic came along, the NBA was a far different place from the days of Russell and Wilt. As much as people want to rhapsodize about the rivalry, because the league had grown in size, the two only played against each other 37 times, with Magic and the Lakers holding a 22-15 edge over Bird and the Celtics.
Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain went at each other—are you ready?—142 times during the 10 years of their rivalry. Russell's Celtics won 85 while Wilt, who was with the Warriors, 76ers and Lakers during that period, was on the winning side 57 times. And that average of more than 14 meetings a year was only during the regular season and playoffs. They also played in many exhibitions against each other.
Now that, friends, is a rivalry.
Bird and Magic had their exhibition battles, too, since it was in the best business interests of both teams as well as the league to showcase these players and to promote this rivalry as much as possible. There was never any doubt where the great players themselves stood.
None of this "just another game" stuff for either of them. They were acutely aware of each other's movements.
Andrew D. Bernstein/NBAE/Getty Images
"When the new schedule would come out each year," Magic says, "I'd grab it and circle the Boston games. To me it was The Two and the other 80."
"The first thing I would do every morning was look at the box scores to see what Magic did," counters Bird. "I didn't care about anything else."
Now that's a rivalry.
What made each of these great rivalries take, of course, was that these epic confrontations were generally fought out at the highest level. Russell and Chamberlain (that is to say, Boston and Philadelphia/San Francisco/Los Angeles, due to Wilt's perambulations) played for the Eastern Conference title in 1960, 1962, 1965, 1966, 1967 and 1968, and for the NBA championship in 1964 (San Francisco) and 1969 (Los Angeles). Bird and Magic, each of whom spent his entire career with one team, played for the NBA championship in 1984, 1985 and 1987.
If you were to look at the Russell-Chamberlain rivalry strictly in terms of the individual numbers, you'd say, "What's the fuss?"
Chamberlain averaged exactly 28.7 points and 28.7 rebounds a game during those 142 games, the point totals brought down a bit by his late-in-career transformation from relentless scoring machine to more well-rounded player. In the early years Wilt scored 50 or more points seven times against Russell, including a high of 62 on January 14, 1962. By the time we could start referring to these men as "aging warriors," the numbers were a bit more back to earth. Wilt's high game in their final year was 35, and three times he scored in single figures.
Russell's totals against Wilt were 14.5 points and 23.7 rebounds per game. His highest-scoring game against his arch rival was 37.
But Russell had the ultimate trump card. He wound up on the winning side more often than not. In the 10 years in question, Russell won nine championships to Wilt's one. The argument will rage on forever: Did Wilt just not know how to win, or did he lack the supporting cast that Russell enjoyed?
Take the night he scored the 62. The Celtics won the game, 145-136. The Celtics led by 31 in the fourth quarter. Wilt scored 42 in the second half, but his team was never in the game. Russell fans say that was an all-too-familiar scenario when these two played, especially in the first five or six years of their duels.
Russell would never go there. He had, and has, nothing but the utmost respect for Wilt Chamberlain, who impressed him from the get-go.
"After I played him for the first time," Russell says, "I said, 'Let's see. He's four or five inches taller. He's 40 or 50 pounds heavier. His vertical leap is at least as good as mine. He can get up and down the floor as well as I can. And he's smart. The real problem with all this is that I have to show up!"
His appreciation grew with each passing year. By 1962, the third year of their rivalry, their teams would meet for the Eastern Conference championship. Wilt was pluperfectly monstrous that season, averaging a record 50.4 points per game. The series went seven games, with Russell and friends able to keep the Big Dipper under some kind of control. (In 12 playoff games that year, Wilt averaged 35 points and 27 rebounds.) A Sam Jones jumper with two seconds remaining won the seventh game by a 109-107 score, and Russell (19 points and 26 rebounds a game) immediately requested to be left alone for awhile.
"I haven't had any sleep all week," he said. "Every time I went out on the court, that guy seemed to grow a little taller."
The Celtics' championship tally grew as well, with Chamberlain being on the losing side in '64, '65 and '66. There was no doubt his frustration was mounting, but he was always civil in public when the issue was raised. After a 30-point, 39-rebound performance brought down the Celtics in Game 2 of the 1965 Eastern Conference Finals, for example, Russell heaped praise on his rival.
"The big fella was great, real great," he observed. "That was the best game he ever played against me."
Wilt's response: "I don't want to talk about this being a victory over Russell, but a victory over Boston.
There always was a larger context in both the Russell-Wilt and Bird-Magic rivalries. None of the four played in a vacuum. Russell once played on a team with seven future Hall of Famers, not including himself.
Wilt, at various times, played with Nate Thurmond, Paul Arizin, Billy Cunningham, Tom Gola, Hal Greer, Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, who are all in the Hall of Fame, not to mention Chet Walker and Guy Rodgers, who could be. Bird played with Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson and Bill Walton. Magic played with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, James Worthy, Jamaal Wilkes, Norm Nixon, Byron Scott and Michael Cooper.
So very seldom was it all about them as individuals. It usually was about how they fit into the team. That was surely the crux of the Bird-Magic thing—championships.
For awhile there was a nice symmetry. Magic won in '80. Bird won in '81. Magic won in '82. Bird won in '84. Magic won in '85. Bird won in '86.
But Magic and the Lakers took over, even as Bird's body was starting to break down. The favored Lakers won in 1987, but it took a Herculean effort to win the pivotal Game 4. Did someone say "one-upsmanship?" How about Bird drilling a nerveless corner three-pointer to put the Celtics ahead by one with seconds remaining, only to see Magic out-do him with a running hook over Bird, McHale and Parish—yes, all three—a shot Magic called his "junior, junior sky-hook."
Bird even had the last shot, another corner jumper that was a hair long.
"The thing between us was that neither team could ever relax," says Magic. "You never felt the game was over. That night was a great example.
Even after Larry misses, we were afraid to move. It was like . . . we won? . . .With individuals like us, and with two cities going crazy—not just two cities, but the world — there will never be another rivalry like it again."
We'll see. Magic may or may not be right. Shaquille O'Neal or Kevin Garnett vs. Tim Duncan or Alonzo Mourning? Vince Carter vs. Grant Hill? Why not Allen Iverson vs. Stephon Marbury? They're only an hour and a half apart, which helps. So it's possible.
But not probable. No one will ever again play each other 142 times, at least not officially, as did Wilt and Russ. Nor are we likely to get another white guy-black guy, country bumpkin-city slicker matchup with such parallel skills and basketball sensibilities, as Bird-Magic.
Let's just say, with great conviction, that these are the two greatest rivalries in NBA history, and all future ones will be measured against them.
do ya'll have any idea how slow niggas was in the 50s and 60s? blocking all them white boys must of felt real nicebill russell and wilt my ass. Some of today's powerfowards and Center's would dominate they ass in their prime. Their build is just way different today. so not sure how anyone can classify them as greatest of all time.
Agreed. Back then the athleticism was nowhere near where it is today, and the shooting was atrocious. If this was the BEST team, you can just imagine how awful the others were.
Also, there were only 8 teams back then, and 2 playoff rounds.. a best of 5, and best of 7. The physical toll on the players was nowhere near what Jordan faced 35 to 40 years later.
wow... i did cut everything else, including how great russell was, but damn I might not average 50 points a game vs a team of 5 foot tall girls!
You mean it was more diluted by expansion. More scrubs per team than ever before.
2 but what's your point? oh i get it. in your feeble mind you equate rings with being better. ok einstein here'e one for yah. how many rings does robert horry have? i'll answer that for you. 7. is Horry > better than any one mentioned?
11× NBA Champion (1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969)
5× NBA MVP (1958, 1961–1963, 1965)
12× NBA All-Star (1958–1969)
3× All-NBA First Team Selection (1959, 1963, 1965)
8× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1958, 1960–1962, 1964, 1966–1968)
1× NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1969)
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1963)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
NBA 35th Anniversary Team
NBA 25th Anniversary Team
listen russel is one of my favorite players of all time but come on man him and wilt were like the only good players in the league in their time and a small handfull of other players
lets just put it like this
i guarantee that in the 50's and 60's i couldve been an nba all star
i know for a fact that i couldve been one of the top 15 to 20 players in the nba in 50's and 60's
i found a great comparison chart of most of the nba players people mention when they think about who is the g.o.a.t.
greatest of all time comparison chart
from looking at this chart i see that oscar robertson had 181 triple doubles that is fucking crazy
greatest of all time comparison chart
from looking at this chart i see that oscar robertson had 181 triple doubles that is fucking crazy
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You funny...Jordan was the greatest individual player...Russell the greatest team player.
I used to say Mike now I say Magic, might go back to Mike later.
I used to say Mike cause I seen Mike play, I seen the teams he beat and what not....then I started researching. To be honest man most people say Mike because he made basketball what it is, today, Mainstream successful.
Michael and Magic both played in the 80's which is unarguably the best decade in basketball competition wise. Magic went to the Finals what 8 times in the 80's? won 5 chips in the golden era.
Mike didnt win shit. People talk about how Kobe plays in a "soft" league opposed to Mike but Mike was the origin of the "soft" rules. People talk about Mike beat Magic in Finals which makes his team better...Come on that wasnt Showtime. The Bulls that won those Finals wouldnt have won one championship 80-90.
Jordan is definitely the biggest force to ever come to the NBA and probably sports because of what he did for the game. But in terms of accomplishment, I hold Magics higher. The same way no matter if Kobe wins 7, cats are gonna say "Michael did it
I used to say Mike cause I seen Mike play, I seen the teams he beat and what not....then I started researching. To be honest man most people say Mike because he made basketball what it is, today, Mainstream successful.
Michael and Magic both played in the 80's which is unarguably the best decade in basketball competition wise. Magic went to the Finals what 8 times in the 80's? won 5 chips in the golden era.
Mike didnt win shit. People talk about how Kobe plays in a "soft" league opposed to Mike but Mike was the origin of the "soft" rules. People talk about Mike beat Magic in Finals which makes his team better...Come on that wasnt Showtime. The Bulls that won those Finals wouldnt have won one championship 80-90.
Jordan is definitely the biggest force to ever come to the NBA and probably sports because of what he did for the game. But in terms of accomplishment, I hold Magics higher. The same way no matter if Kobe wins 7, cats are gonna say "Michael did it
Jordan was the greatest individual player...Russell the greatest team player.
How can you call Russell a better team player than Magic? Please dont use that rings argument. Competition was alot different. Basketball itself was a fledgling sport in this country at that time. Alot of good players were not allowed in the league.
If we talking stats, I'm a stats guy it's Kareem Abdul Jabaar do the maths
/end thread
* Holds NBA career record for:
o Most points - 38,387
o Most minutes played (57,446)
o Most field goals made (15,837)
o Most field goals attempted (28,307)
o Most All-Star selections (19)
o Most All-Star games played (18)
* Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (May 15, 1995)
* College:
o Player of the Year (1967, 1969)
o Three-time First Team All-American (1967-69)
o Three-time NCAA champion (1967, 1968, 1969)
o Most Outstanding Player in NCAA Tournament (1967, 1968, 1969)
o Naismith College Player of the Year (1969)
o National Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame (2007)[19]
* National Basketball Association:
o Rookie of the Year (1970)
o Six-time NBA champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
o Six-time Most Valuable Player (1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1980)
o Sporting News NBA MVP (1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1980)
o Sports Illustrated magazine's "Sportsman of the Year" (1985)
o One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996)
o First player in NBA history to play 20 seasons
/end thread
* Holds NBA career record for:
o Most points - 38,387
o Most minutes played (57,446)
o Most field goals made (15,837)
o Most field goals attempted (28,307)
o Most All-Star selections (19)
o Most All-Star games played (18)
* Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (May 15, 1995)
* College:
o Player of the Year (1967, 1969)
o Three-time First Team All-American (1967-69)
o Three-time NCAA champion (1967, 1968, 1969)
o Most Outstanding Player in NCAA Tournament (1967, 1968, 1969)
o Naismith College Player of the Year (1969)
o National Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame (2007)[19]
* National Basketball Association:
o Rookie of the Year (1970)
o Six-time NBA champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
o Six-time Most Valuable Player (1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1980)
o Sporting News NBA MVP (1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1980)
o Sports Illustrated magazine's "Sportsman of the Year" (1985)
o One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996)
o First player in NBA history to play 20 seasons
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11× NBA Champion (1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969)
5× NBA MVP (1958, 1961–1963, 1965)
12× NBA All-Star (1958–1969)
3× All-NBA First Team Selection (1959, 1963, 1965)
8× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1958, 1960–1962, 1964, 1966–1968)
1× NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1969)
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1963)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
NBA 35th Anniversary Team
NBA 25th Anniversary Team
, the bottom line is the game was so different back then, that it would be impossible to try to imagine a big man from back then competing on the same floor as today's ballers.
Kareem was a great player also, but may have been another product of his era, because back then the rules were different, and the game in the paint was called more stricter, thus making the sport less physical. Today, Kareem would have a hard time establishing position, close enough to the rim to be able to attempt his pertinent sky hook. I think that today's elite centers are just too big and powerful to allow such a skinny and light Kareem to be able to consistently set up in the paint. Take away his sky hook, and Kareem is a much lesser player.
the correct answer is nobody is the greatest.
less physical?
if any of the centers in the nba could develop a sky hook or any type of hook shot they would be unstoppable
The way you stop a sky hook, is to push the center and keep him out of his shooting range, no one is going to let you set up a sky hook in the paint, with out trying to physically push you away from the rim. Back in Kareem's days they were quicker to call a foul on such physicality, but today it is all part of the game. This is why you see players do a running hook instead, a shot where you don't have to have your feet set up at a specific location.
Note: later on in his career, when the game changed, this is how the physical teams such as Boston and Detriot used to defend Kareem, and it did seem to have an effect on his shot.
Back in Russel's days there was only two teams that were relevant, the Lakers and Boston and both were loaded with the best players in the NBA, so for the Celtics to win that many titles, wasn't nearly as hard as it would be to win it today. Plus back then there was very few 7ft players in the league so if you did have some size and some ability, you was at a tremendous advantage over the other players. Plus back then they had crazy rules, like the no-dunck rule
Agreed.
I heard the arguments ad nauseum for Russells case but the shit feels like special pleading. The league at the time Wilt and Russel were playing was filled with far less caliber -speed/strength- of players than in the 80s on up and thus it isnt really fair to compare the two eras. What you get when you try is a whole mishmash of individual objective facts to support a case woven together by a subjective premise. Ergo, the shit really boils down to an opinion.
I feel relatively informed about Russells era even tho I wasnt alive back in those days and my opinion goes as follows:
1. Michael Jordan -greatest individual player
2. Magic Johnson -greatest team player
3. Oscar Robertson -greatest all around player
4. Bill Russell
5. Larry Bird
6. Kareem Abdul Jabar
7. Wilt Chamerlain
8. Julius Irving
9. Kobe Bryant -on the come up
10. Bob Cousy/Jerry West
Why those players and in that order? Cause I said so muhfucka!
Seriously tho it shouldnt matter but to the point it does there are so many variables that can contribute it gets muddled. I personally judge based on game intelligence, performance, effect on teammates, killer instinct and so on. Those things cant be easily contained by talkin bout scoring titles or # of rings or stats or off court dealings.
I would agree tho that Russell v. Wilt was the greatest basketball rivalry ever and will proabaly never be superceded.
And oh yeah MJs 95-96 Bulls (72-10) would crush any other team in history. They could have easily gone for 75-80 if they werent conserving for the playoffs. Lost a few by 1/2 points and 3 of em came in the last couple weeks of the season if my memory serves correct.
Hell, no!!!! The league was awful that year, and during that whole '90s era.
The '85-'86 Celtics would crush those Bulls, as would the '66-'67 Sixers and '71-'72 Lakers.
Back in Russel's days there was only two teams that were relevant, the Lakers and Boston and both were loaded with the best players in the NBA, so for the Celtics to win that many titles, wasn't nearly as hard as it would be to win it today. Plus back then there was very few 7ft players in the league so if you did have some size and some ability, you was at a tremendous advantage over the other players. Plus back then they had crazy rules, like the no-dunck rule
Actually you could add Philly to that list,when they had Wilt with Luke Jackson at the forward spot.
But I understand your point...there was not the wear and tear on the body.
There was never a no-dunk rule in the NBA...
As for few seven-footers...there are few today,that can play.
We just got thru watching ILLgauskas
And you simply cannot compare eras...it's not fair to say Russell could not play today,even tho I think he could.
Just because they are better athletes,does not mean they are better basketball players...
Ok, but to me:
Everyone is a product of their era, my theory is that there is always a bar and you have to raise it to be great
Jordan did this and he has his OWN ERA
which we are seeing come to an end in 2-5 years or so (maybe once guys like Dwight Howard and Yao Ming type players start shooting 40% 3pts while dominating the paint 
)But imo the bottom line is that it is what it is and Kareem DOMINATED the sport for about 30 years in High School, Street Ball (O.G. Rucker baller) College, and the Pros, I don't know any basketball player with a better resume, any time or any league in any country.
No. Hell No. and Goddamit No.
85 Celts and 86 Lakers were some dangerous teams no doubt and they would make for good competition but those 96 Bulls would have mopped the floor with them bitches. Only team that might compete would be the original dream team or some fantasy team off of NBA Live.
Only thing I would say in defense of that argument is that the overall talent was more distributed in the 70s and 80s and started becoming more concentrated in the 90s and still is for the most part.
But I must inquire of your royal bluntship -what is your rationale for claiming the 90s was weak?
If you lived through it you'd know it. Too much expansion (6 new teams between '88 and '96!!). The level of play was mediocre overall. The '80s was clearly the greatest era.
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