NBA's 50 greatest: most overrated/underated?

So qualities such as humility count for something when it comes to scoring?

i didn't write humility.

i wrote as far as basketball is concerned, men like bernard king and george gervin (aside from being prolific and deadly scorers) also had class, integrity and understood the game.

if you (personally) respect the game of basketball as a profession, i trust that you understood that sentence. if you can't, then i know you can't begin to fathom that sentence. men like bernard king and george gervin didn't score 81 because they didn't want to. but i'm pretty sure you could never figure out why.
 
So let me guess, Scottie Pippen won the titles in Chicago too, huh?

have you not been readng my other responses in this thread?

those Laker teams that went nowhere had very limited talent. He didn't have a player that could compliment him.

or he isn't the player you imagine him to be.

the fact is, that coach jackson didn't have a POST player to complement the TRIPLE POST offense. he had a chucker. insert POST player and voila. .789

Before Smush, he had Chucky Atkins.

oh boy. here comes the scapegoating routine. chucky atkins, that guy who went to the playoffs with boston the year before he became a faker? the same chucky atkins who went to the playoffs with memphis the year after he became a faker? i get it. that bum who was a starting PG on 2 different teams before and after playing with the magnificent engine was whack. right. clearly his fault. after all, any team with lamar odom and caron butler had to be pure basketball hell.

Even Jordan had to learn that. Do you remember his first 6 years in the league?

more popular mummery. that means BULLSHIT, btw. michael jordan didn't have to learn shit. michael jordan needed coach jackson's system. coach jackson was the catalyst. that's why we've reached this point in the thread. over the first 3 pages, lemmings keep talking that nonsense about "jordan and pippen". but they are ignorant. they seem to forget there was "jordan and pippen" for TWO SEASONS under jackass coach collins. what happened then? the success WASN'T "jordan and pippen" or a michael jordan learning curve. the success was "michael jordan and coach jackson".
 
Kobe in the triple post offense >>>>>

Damn they loss less than 20 games with Gasol????

Why doesn't nobody else acknowledge this?
 
lakers got the best bench in the NBA.

And the best Euros.

At can y'all imagine the lakers losing by 30 points with the 2006 Fiba MVP and 2007-2008 Mvp in the playoffs?
 
have you not been readng my other responses in this thread?



or he isn't the player you imagine him to be.

the fact is, that coach jackson didn't have a POST player to complement the TRIPLE POST offense. he had a chucker. insert POST player and voila. .789



oh boy. here comes the scapegoating routine. chucky atkins, that guy who went to the playoffs with boston the year before he became a faker? the same chucky atkins who went to the playoffs with memphis the year after he became a faker? i get it. that bum who was a starting PG on 2 different teams before and after playing with the magnificent engine was whack. right. clearly his fault. after all, any team with lamar odom and caron butler had to be pure basketball hell.



more popular mummery. that means BULLSHIT, btw. michael jordan didn't have to learn shit. michael jordan needed coach jackson's system. coach jackson was the catalyst. that's why we've reached this point in the thread. over the first 3 pages, lemmings keep talking that nonsense about "jordan and pippen". but they are ignorant. they seem to forget there was "jordan and pippen" for TWO SEASONS under jackass coach collins. what happened then? the success WASN'T "jordan and pippen" or a michael jordan learning curve. the success was "michael jordan and coach jackson".

You are stating the obvious. The triangle only works if you have players that can execute. I agree that Kobe fucks it up at times. But Phil Jackson's system is only as good as the players that run it for him. So with your logic, can the Lakers win without Kobe? Kobe is not a big part of the Lakers winning ways. It's all ran through Pau Gasol :rolleyes:

According to you, a chucker in the triple post offense is a liability.

And the Lakers are probably the worst 13 loss team I have ever seen. So the winning percentage of .789 means nothing to me. Could it be that the west isn't as tough as it once was? Pau is soft & Kobe is a chucker. They ain't winning shit. They remind me of the Sonic team that lost to the Nuggets or the Maverick team that got put out by the Warriors.
 
And Phil Jackson does stupid shit as well. He will leave Bynum on the bench for long periods of time to allow the other team back into the game & his rotations are all fucked up. So it isn't just Kobe who's fucking up. It starts at the top.
 
And Phil Jackson does stupid shit as well. He will leave Bynum on the bench for long periods of time to allow the other team back into the game & his rotations are all fucked up. So it isn't just Kobe who's fucking up. It starts at the top.

nah man, you are wasting your time, its al kobes fault. everything is kobes fault. Remeber when Lebron got swept in the finals, that was kobes fault. Remeber Charles Smith couldnt get that tip in, that was Kobes fault. And lets now forget the shot Jordan hit over Russell, that was kobes fault too. Everything is kobes fault, except when they win.:rolleyes:
 
I am not sure what cranrab is getting at when he says the dynamic duo is jordan and jackson

Yes jackson is a good coach but at the end of the day, its the player that has to go out there and perform. It sure wasnt phil playing pippens defense and scoring in all of those championships. It wasnt phil who had to execute the plays down the stretch. Yea he drew em up but its the players who have to execute period.

The triangle doesnt make the player. The players make the triangle offense work.
 
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According to you, a chucker in the triple post offense is a liability.

Actually, he is. The triangle is based on timed offense with slick cuts to the basket. For the triangle to work, you can't disrupt that.That's why the triangle was run through Shaq and Jordan in the past. Now it run more through Gasol and Odom. They were more willing to set up the play and execute, while Kobe wasn't. Coach Jackson has to throw Kobe a bone every now and then and let him go on on one, but he has been running the plays more ofter now.
 
Actually, he is. The triangle is based on timed offense with slick cuts to the basket. For the triangle to work, you can't disrupt that.That's why the triangle was run through Shaq and Jordan in the past. Now it run more through Gasol and Odom. They were more willing to set up the play and execute, while Kobe wasn't. Coach Jackson has to throw Kobe a bone every now and then and let him go on on one, but he has been running the plays more ofter now.


I'm not going to disagree because I said the same thing. But are you telling me Odom & Gasol are the only reason they are winning these games? Those guys disappear down the stretch. Kobe is the main reason the Lakers win. Period. Fuck the triangle, fuck Odom & Gasol. The triangle also lost them a title to Detroit. Phil Jackson made Payton a jumpshooter (obviously not his strength). He had two of the best pick & roll players alive (Malone & Payton) and would not create any plays for them when Shaq was on the bench.
 
nah man, you are wasting your time, its al kobes fault. everything is kobes fault. Remeber when Lebron got swept in the finals, that was kobes fault. Remeber Charles Smith couldnt get that tip in, that was Kobes fault. And lets now forget the shot Jordan hit over Russell, that was kobes fault too. Everything is kobes fault, except when they win.:rolleyes:

Exactly, Kobe is the reason for this recession also :rolleyes:. You can't please some of these guys. And believe me, I hate Kobe too. I'm just saying look at the facts. But I'm talking to a brick walls, so why bother? You are right.
 
. The triangle also lost them a title to Detroit. .

Please. You just made his point about disrupting the offense. I'm a Pistons fan...shit.everyone in my family is because we are from the D...and even my damn 6 year old cousin realized that Kobe was fucking up the offense when he hijacked it by taking ill-advised jump shots instead of running the triangle...to the point of even were like..damn..this cat is fucking up the series and it was good for my Pistons. Shaq was abusing Wallace and we couldn't do anything with him...and what does Coach Brown do... he tells the team to allow Kobe to get off shots...give him space and let him shoot...even if he hits a shot.it's better than giving the easy buckets to Shaq. Besides Billups completely fucking abusing and embarrassing Payton, this is the reason why the Lakers lost..Kobe's performance also ranks as one of the worst performance in NBA history for the Finals(not making it up.do a google search).

Kobe shot 38 percent from the field... 17 percent from 3 :puke:

Game 1: 10 for 27 :puke:
Game 2: 14 for 27
Game 3: 4 for 13 :puke:
Game 4: 8 for 25 :puke:
Game 5: 7 for 21 :puke:

Plus. He lead the lakers in turnovers every fucking game except game 1 :puke:

This why the Lakers lost. Kobe was more concerned about getting his shots than running the fucking offense through Shaq and getting high percent shots and being efficient.
 
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I didnt know they left the HAWK out....DAMN
connie_hawkins-arton33530-195x262.jpg
:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:
 
This why the Lakers lost. Kobe was more concerned about getting his shots than running the fucking offense through Shaq and getting high percent shots and being efficient.

Not to chop up your quote, but I believe Teyshaun had a lot to do with Kobe's poor performance during that particular series.

Kobe was competing with Shaq at that point but Tey was a freakin' problem defensively.

That's why I big up AK-47 a lot. I'm a fan of the octopus. That's my favorite creature: long at times, compact at times, mobile, and able to adapt.

These type of defenders give Kobe fits.

When Ginobili first came into the league, he was a "Kobe stopper."
 
You are stating the obvious. The triangle only works if you have players that can execute. Phil Jackson's system is only as good as the players that run it for him. So with your logic, can the Lakers win without Kobe?

you had 3+ seasons to see what tobe in the triple post does. what happened?

you had 90 games to see what pau gasol in the triple post does. what happened?

you advocate looking at the facts. you might want to try it some time.

According to you, a chucker in the triple post offense is a liability.

a chucker in any offense is frequently a liability. in the triple post, which requires patience and discipline, the negatives a chucker brings are even more glaring. if you are familiar with the triple post (which i doubt, because 99% of BGOL has no clue about it), watch how the fakers run it and observe how the transition D is left out of position after tobe's poor shot selection.

Could it be that the west isn't as tough as it once was? Pau is soft & Kobe is a chucker.

you're clearly unfamiliar with my past posts. i've been the sole voice on BGOL outing the weakness of the WORSTern conference. LONG before road rage. pau gasol is soft and tobe is a chucker. we agree. but the triple post O masks a lot of poor habits.

Phil Jackson does stupid shit as well. He will leave Bynum on the bench for long periods of time to allow the other team back into the game & his rotations are all fucked up.

i must've missed my own post in which i stated that coach jackson is perfect. i don't recall writing that because i never have.

but he's the best coach in the modern era. 9 championships in 11 seasons says a lot.

maybe you are confused because you equate "best" with "perfect". those words are not synonymous.

on a side note, some of what the public perceives as "mistakes" are actually examples of one of coach jackson's strengths. coach jackson uses regular season games as proving grounds where players are tested to problem solve in real-time game situations: the lineup experiments, the no calling time outs, etc.

jackson is a good coach but at the end of the day, its the player that has to go out there and perform. It sure wasnt phil playing pippens defense and scoring in all of those championships. It wasnt phil who had to execute the plays down the stretch. Yea he drew em up but its the players who have to execute period.

what i've been trying to say is that the winning COMBINATION was michael jordan and coach jackson. the winning COMBINATION was shaquille o'neal and coach jackson.

what did "jordan and pippen" do together with a lesser coach? right. scottie pippen is NOT the variable that brought success to the chicago bulls. coach jackson was.

what did "shaq and tobe" do together with a lesser coach? right. tobe is NOT the variable that brought success to the los angeles fakers. coach jackson was.

now i hear the herd of sheep donning their capes and running to the rescue, claiming i'm discounting scottie pippen. before they open their pie holes and expel something stupid, let me say this: scottie pippen was a good player, and made valueable contributions to the success of the bulls. that said, we all remember 1994-95 and part of 1995-96.

The triangle doesnt make the player. The players make the triangle offense work.

:lol:

sadly, you are mistaken.

how did michael jordan do under coach loughery? coach albeck? how far did michael jordan go under jackass coach collins?

the triple post offense harnesses and focuses the skills of talented POST players. it reigns them in and makes them better by providing opportunities that otherwise aren't available.

are you telling me Odom & Gasol are the only reason they are winning these games?

absolutely not. i subscribe to the TEAM concept. it appears that you do not. tobe can be a positive contributor to TEAM success when he limits and rations his horrendous play. all of the fakers losses this season bear his signature. i'll let you figure it out since you extoll the virtues of examining FACT.

Please. You just made his point about disrupting the offense.

thank you. but he's not trying to hear me though. it's like attempting to communicate with a brick wall. of course you were there 4+ years ago when i explained that shit while it was happening, so you remember.
 
Not to chop up your quote, but I believe Teyshaun had a lot to do with Kobe's poor performance during that particular series.

Yeah...agreen..especially if you get baited into shooting jumpers... Prince is a problem because he's tall as hell and has that long ass wingspan...he can force you into bad shots and/or always at least challenge your shot..
 
BGOL basketball fans always got jokes.

2004-05 pau gasol takes the memphis grizzlies to a better record and the post-season. tobe has the fakers in the pussific division cellar and watching the playoffs.

okay 1 year when Butler, Lamar Odom and Kobe all missed games, Kobe missed a month with an injury AND

2005-06 pau gasol takes the memphis grizzlies to a better record and the post-season. tobe and pau gasol both get ousted in the 1st round.

Very true but Gasol team got swept and extended his career streak of not winning a playoff game in his career.While Kobe took the higher seeded team to brink with 3 wins.

and remember, tobe had HOF coach jackson. pau gasol had over-achieving midget coach fratello. and yes, it does make a huge difference. because in almost 2 decades of head coaching at the professional level, coach fratello only made it to the 2nd round twice. TWICE. and never advanced.

stop slandering Fratello with this nonsense, the grizz were good enough to have had a better record yet couldn't win at least 1 playoff game with Gasol come on stop with the bullshit excuses please.

so exactly what 2 years were the memphis grizzlies WITH pau gasol in the lottery? you DO remember that pau gasol became a faker in 2007-08, right?

:smh:

I misspoke here it was one season when Gasol only won 22 games and the following year he was headed back there so yeah my bad before the Lakers rescued him.






wrong again. i hope you're not a fakers fan talking out your neck like this.

remember that coach tomjanovich was only around for the 1st 43 games of the season. tobe was having career WORST productivity under coach tomjanovich, BUT THE FAKERS WERE WINNING. tobe's bitch-made ego couldn't have that hit to his public image. check it yourself. especially FG%, scoring, TOs.

This is the worst bullshit here. Rudy T started getting ill and drinking coaching the lakers and bailed, but Kobe wasn't having career worst anything. Lakers were in the same spot they were with Rudy that they were when PJ rejoined them so what does it mean. nothing.

he had 2 season's of worse fg% shootinng and 6 worse season's scoring so what the fuck are you talking about.

and how the fuck can the Lakers be gasol's team when he hasn't won a playoff game. Kobe had won some without him by himself, Gasol hadn't so shut this dumbass shit the fuck up man please.

Gasol tasted playoff vicotry after joining Kobe.

AFTER being the keyword.
 
Yeah...agreen..especially if you get baited into shooting jumpers... Prince is a problem because he's tall as hell and has that long ass wingspan...he can force you into bad shots and/or always at least challenge your shot..

Bullshit Prince's defensive effectivness goes only as far as the bigs behind him blocking shots. When he had 2 shot blockers in Sheed and Ben thats when he was able to make it hard on Kobe when Ben left and Sheed stopped giving effort where has Prince's defense been then, Kobe has scored 40, 39 and 38 pts in games against the Piston's since that Finals.

And Prince routinely gets killed by Pierce and Lebron so stop overhyping Prince's defense.

He is like Bowen he jams guys on the perimeter and funnels guys into shot blockers. When the shot blockers aren't there he's just an average defender not capable of bothering shit.

Like Artest and Battier found out 2 better defenders than Prince the other night guarding Kobe. when he lit they ass up.
 
Bullshit Prince's defensive effectivness goes only as far as the bigs behind him blocking shots.

Another over-sensitive ass Kobe stan.

First off , I didn't even initiate the talk about Prince. And my response was this

"Yeah...agreed..especially if you get baited into shooting jumpers.."

And Rasheed has never been a defensive threat. We had one defensive threat in the middle..Ben Wallace and been Wallace and shit but 6 foot 9 really. The Pistons were always small in the middle...our defensive key was always staying with our man as not to need to double-up much AND challenging very shot..Coach Brown always has teams that play good defense...especially on the perimeter.

The reality of the matter is that if you stick to playing on the perimeter and shooting jumpers, you play right into Prince's hands because he is a superior defender on the perimeter. Prince has never been a player that funnels players to the pain to get help.I don't know what the fuck you've been watching. If you want to beat prince, you need to penetrate and/on post up because he's thin as a fucking rail and can be overpowered in the paint...and that series was 5 years ago.. Kobe should have 3 games near 40 points and this team is not even remotely the same defensive team as it was 5 years ago...it hasn't been the same since Coach Brown left.

But this is just more typical smoke-screen Kobe fan shit... instead of dealing with that shitty ass Finals series, you want to jump on some other shit. Nothing changes that fact that one player shot a team out of a series.
 
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Another over-sensitive ass Kobe stan.

But this is just more typical smoke-screen Kobe fan shit... instead of dealing with that shitty ass Finals series, you want to jump on some other shit. Nothing changes that fact that one player shot a team out of a series.

in either case presented (tayshaun prince as 1-on-1 defender or good at using help), it doesn't change the fact that a super chucker took the bait.

shaquille o'neal DESTROYING the pistons shooting 63.1% in that series and the "magnificent engine" is busy hoisting bricks.

an intelligent player would have recognized (a) what was WORKING and (b) what wasn't.

but some people stay allergic to FACT.

simply put, if tobe was the baller people imagine him to be, he would have recognized that shaquille o'neal was pissing on the pistons, and would've stopped with the masonry.

oh wait, i forgot that 38.1% is better than 63.1% in a fakers universe.
 
shaquille o'neal DESTROYING the pistons shooting 63.1% in that series and the "magnificent engine" is busy hoisting bricks.

As good of a defender as Wallace was, he was just too damn small to guard Shaq one on one. The Pistons had the same problem when we faced the Heat. But in that the 2004 Finals..when the series started, Shaq was getting too deep in the paint because he outweighed Wallace by damn near 100 pounds and was getting EASY buckets. PLUS, Coach Brown doesn't like to double team...especially against a good passing center like Shaq. Then, Kobe starting shooting and hijacked the Lakers offense...the basketball fan in me was like :angry::angry::angry:....the Pistons fan in my was like :dance::dance: at that point, I knew the series was over.

But getting back to the point of your I quoted.. You have a guy shooting 63% and he stops getting the rock or it doesn't go back down in the repost..:smh::smh::smh:

How difficult is to see that player shooting 60+% should be getting more attempts than the player only shooting 30+%

I don't even know how Kobe fans reconcile that shit...seriously. He shot them out of a title.
 
stop slandering Fratello with this nonsense, the grizz were good enough to have had a better record yet couldn't win at least 1 playoff game with Gasol come on stop with the bullshit excuses please.

slander? excuses?

WTF you talking about, J?

that's HISTORY, not slander or excuse. coach fratello had those greyhound squads with trees (no pun intended) on the front line, but could only get out of the 1st round twice. TWICE. and never out of the semis.

that should tell you a lot about his coaching.

Rudy T started getting ill and drinking coaching the lakers and bailed, but Kobe wasn't having career worst anything. Lakers were in the same spot they were with Rudy that they were when PJ rejoined them so what does it mean. nothing.

he had 2 season's of worse fg% shootinng and 6 worse season's scoring so what the fuck are you talking about.

1st, let me say, don't be so quick to drink the kool-aid. ill? drinking? damn, i didn't know dr. buss was so generous that he'd give an alcoholic $4M to quit. and then keep him on payroll beyond that.

i cite history with coach fratello; you call coach tomjanovich a drunk. who's doing the slander again?

:smh:

and you have to stop talking out your ass. really, man.

tobe under coach tomjanovich was shooting 40.6%. to this day, that still remains his all time career low FG%. even lower than his rookie season.

cats on BGOL can never come to the table prepared to discuss basketball.

:smh:
 
.

cats on BGOL can never come to the table prepared to discuss basketball.

:smh:

It's something very peculiar about Kobe stans in particular. I've never seen this with fans of any other athlete or team. They are revisionists and have a complete and utter disregard for facts...but again..not only do they have a disregard for facts, they revise history and actually make up shit that never happened...I mean..you can go through post after post and correct Kobe fans where they type incorrect years, incorrect stats, illogical arguments, etc... it's almost like reality can't support their arguments so they just create this alternate universe:rolleyes:

For instance... they think of every excuse in the world why the Lakers lost to the Pistons but refuse to even consider that maybe Kobe shooting 25 shots a game at 38 percent had something to do with it.
 
It's something very peculiar about Kobe stans in particular. I've never seen this with fans of any other athlete or team. They are revisionists and have a complete and utter disregard for facts...but again..not only do they have a disregard for facts, they revise history and actually make up shit that never happened...I mean..you can go through post after post and correct Kobe fans where they type incorrect years, incorrect stats, illogical arguments, etc... it's almost like reality can't support their arguments so they just create this alternate universe:rolleyes:

For instance... they think of every excuse in the world why the Lakers lost to the Pistons but refuse to even consider that maybe Kobe shooting 25 shots a game at 38 percent had something to do with it.

or they refuse to believe that tobe averaged 4.44 turnovers per game under coach tomjanovich. to date, that is tobe's career HIGH in turnovers.
 
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