(the Wire)who Was The Man Avon,stringer Or Marlo

[Sirius BlackNY]

or you missed mine completely.

avon made his bones.

marlo was pussy and waited until avon was hemmed up to make his move.

avon created.

marlo bit.

avon was genuine, the real deal.

marlo was bootleg.

I see what you are saying but Avon cared to much and to be in the type of business they were in , you have to be cold like Marlo. Do you think Marlo would let his number two (Stringer/Chris) kill his family and let that slide?? Marlo had his soldiers in line. any thought of being a traitor or a snitch they were dealt with. that fear is what kept them in line. Avon, Wee-Bay are in jail the real loyal soldier that had some heart was Bodie and Marlo got him too. Avon may have laid the foundation but Marlo jacked it and out did him and again Avon is in jail, Marlo is free with his money.

 

[LeroyDibiase]

The towers were def big, but no one knows what Joe was holding, cuz the show wasn't about his area. They def portrayed him as the eastide version of Avon.

In fact the OFFICIAL Wire website calls Joe "eastside narcotics kingpin" and says Avon is his "Westside Rival."

Don't make me define the word rival. Suffice to say, Joe WAS on Avon's level.
http://www.hbo.com/thewire/cast/characters/prop_joe.shtml

Lemme say this slow. The westside was Aaaaaaaa-von. Only.

The eastside was a fucking co-op of niggas. As in MORE THAN ONE. And I counted at least 15 niggas in the Co-op. The Co-op didn't have westside until Stringer joined. B, prop was second, probably a distant second in terms of real estate, just because he had to share with so many people.

Now excuse me, I finna go get nut-deep in some random (not really random) pussy

/Bunk (the REALEST nigga on the show)

 

[Rawness]

Lemme say this slow. The westside was Aaaaaaaa-von. Only.

False.


When the towers fell, they show the Barksdales spreading out to all the corners and getting the bosses to take the package. Only Marlo refuses. Several others accept.


Now y'all are just making shit up.

 

[LeroyDibiase]

Prop Joe wanted him in there, cuz string was trying to get him.




I know this. The Towers fell at the beginning of Season 3. They went to war with Marlo when he didn't want to take their package. This was all AFTER the Co-Op was in existence.

And they also had Omar in sight, unarmed, are you gonna try to convince me they could handle Omar, too?

Please read what you wrote and then read what I wrote. You're mixing seasons up. Or just restate your point cause it's shifting.

 

[cranrab]

Marlo had his soldiers in line. any thought of being a traitor or a snitch they were dealt with. that fear is what kept them in line. Avon, Wee-Bay are in jail the real loyal soldier that had some heart was Bodie and Marlo got him too.

excellent point. which is why i made reference to machiavelli a few posts above. sadly, not many people will catch the allusion, because they think someone's talking about tupac.

the writers did a FANTASTIC job with a treatment of the prince.

Avon may have laid the foundation but Marlo jacked it and out did him and again Avon is in jail, Marlo is free with his money.

IMO, that's the short sighted view.

avon built an organization that was still running things even with number 1 inside. avon built something that LASTED. that's true strength and power.

marlo may have been "free", but where was everything he had worked for?

avon was coca-cola. marlo wasn't even diet shasta.

 

[cranrab]

Lemme say this slow. The westside was Aaaaaaaa-von. Only.

The eastside was a fucking co-op of niggas. As in MORE THAN ONE. And I counted at least 15 niggas in the Co-op. The Co-op didn't have westside until Stringer joined. B, prop was second, probably a distant second in terms of real estate, just because he had to share with so many people.

False.


When the towers fell, they show the Barksdales spreading out to all the corners and getting the bosses to take the package. Only Marlo refuses. Several others accept.


Now y'all are just making shit up.

LD,

you do know the proverb about arguing with fools on the side of the road, right?

 

[Rawness]

Please read what you wrote and then read what I wrote. You're mixing seasons up. Or just restate your point cause it's shifting.

Nah, you right about that.

Avon opposed the Co-Op, and String realized they were too weak to hold on to them with that weak product, but Marlo wasn't the threat. I mixed that part up. I didn't even mean to say that. My point, otherwise, still stands. I don't think the Barkdales could've held the towers had some other crew came through with better product and stronger muscle.

 

[beantowns_finest]

the wire was such a great show..sad that the last season was so weak compared to the rest

 

[34real]

excellent point. which is why i made reference to machiavelli a few posts above. sadly, not many people will catch the allusion, because they think someone's talking about tupac.

the writers did a FANTASTIC job with a treatment of the prince.

Excellent point but ruling with an iron fist can prove to be deadly,aka nino brown.Thats one of the reasons why I chose Avon over Marlo because he ruled more like a general than a dictater.When your a dictater theres usually a thinline between love(respect) and hate.

 

[LeroyDibiase]

Yes, some of the corners were not Avon's but they were indy niggas with one or two corners and Stringer basically told them to get down or lay down.

As for your point about the Towers, WHO would dare come at Avon? Marlo tried, and failed. If it wasn't for Snitchin ass Stringer, Marlo would be DEAD. And barksdale had money. They hired muscle. You never saw Marlo hire niggas, he had kids. That nigga Avon could reach out into Philly and NYC and Jerz and as far south as Virginia for muscle if it was a war.

Aight I'm out for real.

 

[cranrab]

String realized they were too weak to hold on to them with that weak product.

stringer falsely concluded that "they" were too weak to hold onto their territory. he was PUSSY, and his fear decided his action (and ultimately his fate).

MOST of stringer's calculations were WRONG (albeit ambitious) and he was exposed as a panicky bitch. had stringer been cut of a stronger stock (like avon), he would have had the wisdom and the nuts to hold his water and think situations through more clearly.

 

[LeroyDibiase]

Excellent point but ruling with an iron fist can prove to be deadly,aka nino brown.Thats one of the reasons why I chose Avon over Marlo because he ruled more like a general than a dictater.When your a dictater theres usually a thinline between love(respect) and hate.

Exactly Mike was already questioning Marlo, give it a few years and I swear he woulda ace'd that nigga.

 

[LSN]

Marlo...

 

[LSN]

Fuck Stringer he was a b*tch to the full extent, snitching on his boy because of a bruise ego rflmao

100%...

 

[cranrab]

Excellent point but ruling with an iron fist can prove to be deadly,aka nino brown.Thats one of the reasons why I chose Avon over Marlo because he ruled more like a general than a dictater.When your a dictater theres usually a thinline between love(respect) and hate.

then you must be familiar with the centuries old question raised in the book:

love or fear?

and the wire (and these discussions) bear out the author's conclusions.

 

[34real]

then you must be familiar with the centuries old question raised in the book:

love or fear?

and the wire (and these discussions) bear out the author's conclusions.

He said its better for them to fear you rather than love you-But Im saying thats not true.What is needed is "equilibrium" because to much of either one,love or hate can be deadly so you do what Avon did and find a ballance between the two,espacially for the people in your own circle.

The best example of this is a pack of wolves,you have your alfa male but if he violates or rules the pack to hard,he's probably gonna end up getting chased away or killed by his own pack.

 

[cranrab]

He said its better for them to fear you rather than love you-But Im saying thats not true.What is needed is "equilibrium"

ah, but that IS what machiavelli suggested. in his own words "both".

but when pressed to choose 1, he did favor fear.

"Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.
Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well being feared whilst he is not hated, which will always be as long as he abstains from the property of his citizens and subjects and from their women. But when it is necessary for him to proceed against the life of someone, he must do it on proper justification and for manifest cause, but above all things he must keep his hands off the property of others, because men more quickly forget the death of their father than the loss of their patrimony. Besides, pretexts for taking away the property are never wanting; for he who has once begun to live by robbery will always find pretexts for seizing what belongs to others; but reasons for taking life, on the contrary, are more difficult to find and sooner lapse."

 

[dzlkdd]

Omar little was that nigga thought Like in season four when he went to get cereal and cigarettes in his pajamas with no tools and folk still yelling omar coming omar coming and then too rob all the drug dealers of the reup and then to sell there shit back to them was poetic. Omar could find the drug dealers and there peoples houses with the quickness.

That's what I'm saying. Everybody in that game, can catch a bullet. The only two who had a shot of living through it would've been Joe and String, because they were the two who could've left it behind.

But if blind dude hadn't been killed, Omar woulda been off one some island fuckin dudes til he kicked.


But I disagree with all of y'all dissing String. The whole point of his character was to get away from the false bravado you all worship and move on to the next level of business. Y'all likin' Marlo because he killed the most people. But Marlo was too reckless. He didn't have long, he just got pure lucky. Plus he was scared of Omar.

 

[O.Red]

Plus he was scared of Omar.

Some of you niggas baffle me.

How was Marlo scared of Omar?

 

[BDR]

Exactly Mike was already questioning Marlo, give it a few years and I swear he woulda ace'd that nigga.

[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/N2JjP8ATI7s[/FLASH]

 

[Bumpee]

Answer the question, what real estate did the Barksdales have?

You think they're bigger than they are, cuz that's who the show focused on.

The Co-op showed a room full a muh'fuckas gettin it on Avon's level. Fat Face Rick, (who we know little to nothing about) was making million dollar deals with the city. He was def on Avon's level, but we never saw his holdings.

Another thing that suggest Joe was on Avon's level: Levi represented all of em (Avon, Joe and Rick)

I'm late to the game, but fuck it. It was determined in season one that Avon ahd plenty of real estate. THat's the route Freamon and Prez were taking when their detail in season one got shut down. They were gettin too close for comfort.

Prop Joe was very clever, but he was also opportunistic, and a bit of a pussy. All you have to do is look at the promo clip for season 5 when they showed him as a youngster. Dude chumped him for the answers to the test, and what does he do? Snitch on dude to the teacher. Those promos were real in that they gave u a glimpse into what the characters stood for(Omar and his code, for instance).

The show drew a lot of parrallels between the "good" characters and the bad. Almost every cop/peacekeeper had their counterpart on the criminal side. Prop actually reminded me of Valcheck(sp). Very opportunistic, and looking to get in wherever he could fit in.

 

[456.North.side]

...

 

[cranrab]

But I disagree with all of y'all dissing String. The whole point of his character was to get away from the false bravado you all worship and move on to the next level of business.

or maybe the whole point of stringer's character was to show how foolish youth can be.

or how just because you make ends off the sweat of another man, it doesn't mean you're qualified or ready to run the show yourself.

russell bell's character was all about pretense and play-acting. pretending he was smart enough to be #1 (avon) - he wasn't. play acting that he was smart enough to run the show without avon - he wasn't. and most of all, it showed that he was WAY WAY WAY out of his league when he tried to jump into the water with the politicians.

stringer was the BIGGEST failure and fraud of them all, because he couldn't compete on ANY level; not smart enough for avon, not hood enough for marlo, and not experienced enough to get down with clay davis.

the fact that stringer set up his boy (and in doing so, weakening his own position) is just more icing on the cake.

 

[Sirius BlackNY]

excellent point. which is why i made reference to machiavelli a few posts above. sadly, not many people will catch the allusion, because they think someone's talking about tupac.

the writers did a FANTASTIC job with a treatment of the prince.



IMO, that's the short sighted view.

avon built an organization that was still running things even with number 1 inside. avon built something that LASTED. that's true strength and power.

marlo may have been "free", but where was everything he had worked for?

avon was coca-cola. marlo wasn't even diet shasta.

Avon did build something but before he went to jail he was letting to many things slide. stringer was out of control and again, when he told avon he was the one that order d'angelo killed in jail avon should not have let him live another day. how can avon keep respect when his number 2 soldier stringer bell was making moves unchecked? Marlo would not have that Michale was one of the few that questioned Marlo's tactics. even then he still had his number 2 soldier chris defend marlo and as much as chris liked michale, if marlo orders him to kill michale chris would. avaon was losing loyalty and respect from his crew marlo was on top of his game.

 

[the_jinx_one]

Fuck what yall say the realest nicca was Silm Charles. He was the realest one on The Wire. As far as the Man, Stringer Bell was the Man. I agree with the other cat he had vision. Avon wouldn't back him up. When he was trying the to keep that good good by letting go of the real estate. That's what got him tripped up. He told Avon everything was under control. Avon sent Brother Mozone. The shit went downhill from there. They tore down the projects. The real answer was quit while you ahead and legitimize. Let the young ones live that life. You bankroll them until they can fly by themselves. Wash their money. An get the whole team out the hood. Remeber KRS ONE "loves gonna get you." Love got'em. They shoulda just got Marlo too.

 

[cranrab]

just noticed that the 5 season box set will be released the 2nd week of december, just in time for christmas, if anyone is interested.

 

[Mello Mello]

Well let me say this. If we are going to judge who was the man we need to set some perimeters of what defines THE MAN. Feel me.

 

[Complex]

Omar, no homo

But my favorite was probably Bodie

 

[keone]

just noticed that the 5 season box set will be released the 2nd week of december, just in time for christmas, if anyone is interested.

 

[DaleMabry]

I'm late to the game, but fuck it. It was determined in season one that Avon ahd plenty of real estate. THat's the route Freamon and Prez were taking when their detail in season one got shut down. They were gettin too close for comfort.

Prop Joe was very clever, but he was also opportunistic, and a bit of a pussy. All you have to do is look at the promo clip for season 5 when they showed him as a youngster. Dude chumped him for the answers to the test, and what does he do? Snitch on dude to the teacher. Those promos were real in that they gave u a glimpse into what the characters stood for(Omar and his code, for instance).

The show drew a lot of parrallels between the "good" characters and the bad. Almost every cop/peacekeeper had their counterpart on the criminal side. Prop actually reminded me of Valcheck(sp). Very opportunistic, and looking to get in wherever he could fit in.

good post

 

[geist]

I want to say Marlo, but he really didn't fit in the business world and I know he would eventually get sucked back into the streets.

Overall, all of them had their moments since they were archetypes.

Avon was more about the streets and he seemed to be the archetypal 80's/early 90's kingpin. He was good at that and like in the show, the game has changed so he couldn't stay on top for long. If there was a season 0 that showed how they took the Towers, people would say he was the man.

Stringer seemed to have the best plan for getting out. But he didn't see the Clay Davis thing. He was actually trying to organize kats into something like the Mafia's commision, it kind of worked until Marlo got involved.

Marlo, he survived. He had his own code, was ruthless and got the money and walked away. But like I said, he will get sucked back into the streets every once in a while and I could see him taking an L just from testing himself. But unlike Stringer he knows he doesn't belong in the business world. So what's a kat that has a lot of money, no other skills going to do but do something dumb eventually.

 

[TheKingofVa]

Stringer

 

[keone]

I'm late to the game, but fuck it. It was determined in season one that Avon ahd plenty of real estate. THat's the route Freamon and Prez were taking when their detail in season one got shut down. They were gettin too close for comfort.

Prop Joe was very clever, but he was also opportunistic, and a bit of a pussy. All you have to do is look at the promo clip for season 5 when they showed him as a youngster. Dude chumped him for the answers to the test, and what does he do? Snitch on dude to the teacher. Those promos were real in that they gave u a glimpse into what the characters stood for(Omar and his code, for instance).

The show drew a lot of parrallels between the "good" characters and the bad. Almost every cop/peacekeeper had their counterpart on the criminal side. Prop actually reminded me of Valcheck(sp). Very opportunistic, and looking to get in wherever he could fit in.

 

[HisFlyness]

Is the box set out yet?

It comes out Dec. 9th.

http://store.hbo.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3166613&cp=1885652

 

[LeroyDibiase]

Lemme just say man, I love spirited debates like these on BGOL. Keep it up.