You Must Learn: HIP-HOP STARTED IN JAMAICA... Not The South Bronx!!!

[roster]

Okay does everyone agree that KRS ONE is one of the pioneers of this music? If, you believe that then you must understand that HE HAS STATED in a conference in Toronto that he KRS constantly cites Michie as an early influence on his craft and style..

If you were @ KRS's performance for CMW week you would've heard the heartfelt freestyle he did about Ron & Michie...

Michie definitely helped him see that hiphop and dancehall could be a lethal combination..

Look up Michie Mee on google and remember KRS ONE travels AND has a worldview that someone strictly just in th Bronx won't see. This thread is funny because why are people trying to discredit the pioneers who are making some of these claims? So what Kool Herc says in those articles means nothing I guess. SBX is the birthplace of hip hop in America. No disputing that, but reggae's influence is being downplayed a lot.

Let's go before Kool Herc here. Some are saying he re-constructed American songs. I think it was explained WHY he used American songs because if he didn't use songs familiar to NY he would not caught people's attention. Where did this re-constructing of songs come from? In the 60's Bob Marley and his producers use to do this very thing in Great Britain because the roots rock reggae would have been to raw for that region's ears. Lee "Scratch" Perry and Dave Kelly were the masters behind this infusing American music and "remixing"/re-dubbing it into the Jamaican reggae sound for mass consumption. It wasn't that it was so much influenced by American djs, blues, soul, and jazz artists. It's that they had to incorporate that into the music for the other side(across seas) to even pay any attention to it.

It's like Puffy loving his classic 70's music, but knowing the 90's hip hop artist needed that street hip hop edge to "remixing" the songs for the hip hop generation masses.





-------------------------------Recorded researched information------------------------------
Clement "Sir Coxosone" Dodd made regular trips to the States in search of smokin 45s. The rise of rock n roll made it too exhausting and time consuming to find the right records, so instead of elusive cuts by the likes of Louis Jordan and Ruth Brown, Coxosone and rival soundman Duke Reid decided to cut their own records. They knew how to make the bass fat and round: they knew players who could match those pounding pianos and horny horns. Why not try a ting? By-products of said ting included a herky jerky dance music known as ska. Long before "Rapper's Delight" and "King Tim III". Music so raw it couldn't play on Jamaica's government controlled airwaves. Tunes so tough people(particularly poor people) couldn't live without them. Whether ska or blues, reggae, ragga, or rock steady-all forms of music could find a home in the dancehall.............................The DJ slid his brilliantly bugged out "chik-a-bow" jive into the nooks and crannies of a remix of the Paragons stately "Wear You to the Ball", and the first rap record was pressed in 1969. U Roy as that man.

SOURCE: VIBE HISTORY OF HIP HOP pages 352-355

 

[Rudey]

Let me just say this....

Even Jamaicans themselves know that HIP-HOP NEVER STARTED IN JAMAICA.

Many never even know who Melle Mel and LL Cool J were until the early nineties.

Some of us only heard about graffiti or saw it on TV back then.

Back then it was taboo for us to listen hip hop music,the music was never widely accepted.

Hip hop never sit well with the Jamaican audience until the early nineties.

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

Cats were rapping on old blues songs before my grandfather was born.

Cats in the South were spitting Shine and Stagolee poems in tall tale (lying) contests to each other before my great-grandfather was born.

What Ming keeps missing is that Jamaican DJ and roots / reggae culture itself was tremendously influenced by Black American DJs and Jazz, Blues and Soul artists.

So the very cultural tropes Kool Herc helped bring to America were itself a response to culture (Black) Americans sent over to Jamaica.

How then can you claim hip-hop "started" in Jamaica?

You can't. I understand your motives, Ming but you are flat wrong.

Elements of Jamaican music and DJ culture were brought to the Bronx, fused with elements from all over the place (James Brown, Muhammad Ali, George Clinton, Capoeira, NYC gang culture, Puerto Rican and Dominican salsa, bomba y plena, even Roman graffiti and Egyptian visuals, all sorts of shit) and the stew resulted in hip-hop.

You are denying everyone credit by zeroing in on one contributor and one man.

Thats like saying the United States began in Virginia because ONE or TWO of the Founders, Washington and Jefferson, were Virginians.

Thats just flat wrong, I'm sorry, but I understand why you are trying to make this big fuss. You feel Jamaicans dont get enough credit, so be it but this is overcorrecting for the problem.

You DO realize that most of your counter-points are actually my points. I know it's 7 pages and counting, but I've already said what you've said. as for my motive: I'm watching my plan unfold ingeniously! LOL! Your post alone is bringing my plan into fruition. But there will be ample time for me to lay it all out on the table...

Carry on gentleman.

 

[Complex]

Cats were rapping on old blues songs before my grandfather was born.

Cats in the South were spitting Shine and Stagolee poems in tall tale (lying) contests to each other before my great-grandfather was born.

What Ming keeps missing is that Jamaican DJ and roots / reggae culture itself was tremendously influenced by Black American DJs and Jazz, Blues and Soul artists.

So the very cultural tropes Kool Herc helped bring to America were itself a response to culture (Black) Americans sent over to Jamaica.

How then can you claim hip-hop "started" in Jamaica?

You can't. I understand your motives, Ming but you are flat wrong.

Elements of Jamaican music and DJ culture were brought to the Bronx, fused with elements from all over the place (James Brown, Muhammad Ali, George Clinton, Capoeira, NYC gang culture, Puerto Rican and Dominican salsa, bomba y plena, even Roman graffiti and Egyptian visuals, all sorts of shit) and the stew resulted in hip-hop.

You are denying everyone credit by zeroing in on one contributor and one man.

Thats like saying the United States began in Virginia because ONE or TWO of the Founders, Washington and Jefferson, were Virginians.

Thats just flat wrong, I'm sorry, but I understand why you are trying to make this big fuss. You feel Jamaicans dont get enough credit, so be it but this is overcorrecting for the problem.

He's just trying to spam with this bullshit topic like Trojan Horse does

 

[roster]

Let me just say this....

Even Jamaicans themselves know that HIP-HOP NEVER STARTED IN JAMAICA.

Many never even know who Melle Mel and LL Cool J were until the early nineties.

Some of us only heard about graffiti or saw it on TV back then.

Back then it was taboo for us to listen hip hop music,the music was never widely accepted.

Hip hop never sit well with the Jamaican audience until the early nineties.

May I ask WHICH Jamaicans?

If KRS ONE even said he borrowed from reggae, why are some trying to discredit legitimate pioneer's claims? Why are some ignoring reserached recorded history by legitimate press that is American? You know VIBE which is associated with Quincy Jones? Or will people ignore friggin Quincy Jones and his accomplishments to black music as well?

You know there are some Americans who will argue that hip hop in America did not start in south bronx either doesn't mean they have any idea what they are talking about.

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

He's just trying to spam with this bullshit topic like Trojan Horse does

May I ask WHICH Jamaicans?

If KRS ONE even said he borrowed from reggae, why are some trying to discredit legitimate pioneer's claims? Why are some ignoring reserached recorded history by legitimate press that is American? You know VIBE which is associated with Quincy Jones? Or will people ignore friggin Quincy Jones and his accomplishments to black music as well?

You know there are some Americans who will argue that hip hop in America did not start in south bronx either doesn't mean they have any idea what they are talking about.

 

[Rudey]

May I ask WHICH Jamaicans?

If KRS ONE even said he borrowed from reggae, why are some trying to discredit legitimate pioneer's claims? Why are some ignoring reserached recorded history by legitimate press that is American? You know VIBE which is associated with Quincy Jones? Or will people ignore friggin Quincy Jones and his accomplishments to black music as well?

You know there are some Americans who will argue that hip hop in America did not start in south bronx either doesn't mean they have any idea what they are talking about.

As if KRS was the first rapper.

Not a good point to validate your claim!

Kid,I grew up in Jamaica and spend most of my life there.

You cannot tell me about what started in Jamaica.

Back then Hip Hop music was term as yankee music that only uptown kids in Jamaica listen.Majority of Jamaicans didn't embrace Hip hop music.

In the ,70's and 80's majority of Jamaicans didn't give a shit about Hip Hop.FACT!

So how can hip hop started in Jamaica,is this some secret that majority of the Jamaican population didn't know?



Just because elements of Reggae are in Hip Hop early stage doesn't mean Hip was started in Jamaica.

Did you read what DaleMabry typed.

So I guess the fact that Bob Marley,Peter tosh and Jimmy Cliff and other reggae pioneers borrowed from R&B,Rock N Roll does that mean Reggae was started in America?

Not to mention ska music,that borrowed elements from American jazz and rhythm and blues,does that mean ska was started in America?

HIP HOP DIDN'T START IN AMERICA.FACT not an opinion.

SOONER OR LATER PPL ARE GOING TO SAY REGGAE STARTED IN AFRICA.

 

[Jamaone]

If you feel like NOT READING YOU WON’T learn anything so pass on. I am surprised and disappointed at the same time with these comments. Jamaicans did not CREATE HIP HOP MUSIC BUT we had GREAT INFLUENCE ON IT.

Think for a moment. What is DANCEHALL (bounty killer, beanie man, buju banton) music and HIP HOP (Nas, Jayz, etc).

They are both doing the same time just is different VOICES/ACCENTs. Hip Hop nas is Rapping/ toasting over a beat in his American accent.

Buju banton is Rapping/toasting over a Jamaican beat in his Jamaican accent. It’s the same thing just difference of speech is it coincidences I do not thing so.

WHAT JAMAICANS brought to hip hop music is SOUND SYSTEMS WITH A DJ and the MAN RAPPING/ TOASTING=same thing different accent. In Jamaica the DJ is actually the MC. And the DJ in Jamaica is called the Selecta. So in essence we help to bring the American hip hop its DJ and the RAPPER/ TOASTER. It would be hard to have hiphop without the dj and the rapper in my opinion but American music have great influence on Jamaican music too.

Keep in mind that Jamaican music that lead to influencing HIP HOP. Jamaican was influence by Rock and Roll.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toasting

In the late 1960s and early 1970s a strain of Jamaican music called deejay toasting was developed. Deejays working for producers would play the latest hits on traveling sound systems at parties and add their "toasts" or vocals to the music. These "toasts" consisted of boastful commentaries, chants, half-sung rhymes, rhythmic chants, squeals, screams, and rhymed storytelling. [1]

Osbourne Ruddock (aka King Tubby) was a Jamaican sound recording engineer who created vocal-less rhythm backing tracks that were used by DJs doing "toasting" by creating one-off vinyl discs (also known as dub plates) of songs without the vocals and adding echo and sound effects[citation needed].

Late 1960s toasting deejays included U-Roy and Dennis Alcapone, the latter known for mixing gangster talk with humor in his toasting. In the early 1970s, toasting deejays included I-Roy (his nickname is an homage to U-Roy) and Dillinger, the latter known for his humorous toasting style. In the late 1970s, Trinity became a popular toasting deejay.

The rhythmic rhyming of vocals in Jamaican deejay toasting influenced the development of rapping in African-American hip-hop, [2] and the development of the Dancehall style. [1] (e.g., hip-hop pioneer and Jamaican ex-patriate DJ Kool Herc and Phife Dawg of A Tribe Called Quest). Jamaican deejay toasting also influenced various types of dance music, such as jungle music, and UK garage. Dancehall artists that have achieved pop hits with toasting-influenced vocals include Shabba Ranks, Shaggy and Sean Paul. Another up and coming Jamaican Toasting star is Damian Marley, son of reggae legend Bob Marley.

 

[roster]

As if KRS was the first rapper.

Not a good point to validate your claim!

Kid,I grew up in Jamaica and spend most of my life there.

You cannot tell me about what started in Jamaica.

Back then Hip Hop music was term as yankee music that only uptown kids in Jamaica listen.Majority of Jamaicans didn't embrace Hip hop music.

In the ,70's and 80's majority of Jamaicans didn't give a shit about Hip Hop.FACT!

So how can hip hop started in Jamaica,is this some secret that majority of the Jamaican population didn't know?



Just because elements of Reggae are in Hip Hop early stage doesn't mean Hip was started in Jamaica.

Did you read what DaleMabry typed.

So I guess the fact that Bob Marley,Peter tosh and Jimmy Cliff and other reggae pioneers borrowed from R&B,Rock N Roll does that mean Reggae was started in America?

Not to mention ska music,that borrowed elements from American jazz and rhythm and blues,does that mean ska was started in America?

HIP HOP DIDN'T START IN AMERICA.FACT not an opinion.

SOONER OR LATER PPL ARE GOING TO SAY REGGAE STARTED IN AFRICA.

Who are you calling a kid first of all? WOW you grew up in Jamaica, so what? I have relatives who are Jamaican and I was born in the West Indies, so mute your born in Jamaica point. You say most kids did not embrace hip hop in the 70's? Again, the shit wasn't called hip hop at the beginning.

Please tell me where I said hip hop started in Jamaica? Or do you call borrowing ELEMENTS the same thing? Again I saw what DaleMabry wrote. Did YOU READ what was stated by people IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS? PRODUCERS who WORKED back in those days with these musicians. I can see how history can be altered and ignored and stolen and people being ignorant to it now.

AGAIN? Where did I say KRS was the first rapper? Please READ!!! Calling him one of the pioneers is not the same thing as saying he's the FIRST RAPPER.

Your trying to discredit "my claim" when I gave references for the stuff that can be found in any library. ELEMENTS! ELEMENTS!

It's like a cook making chicken soup, but then just saying it's just soup and not counting the ELEMENT of chicken in the soup.

 

[roster]

If you feel like NOT READING YOU WON’T learn anything so pass on. I am surprised and disappointed at the same time with these comments. Jamaicans did not CREATE HIP HOP MUSIC BUT we had GREAT INFLUENCE ON IT.

Think for a moment. What is DANCEHALL (bounty killer, beanie man, buju banton) music and HIP HOP (Nas, Jayz, etc).

They are both doing the same time just is different VOICES/ACCENTs. Hip Hop nas is Rapping/ toasting over a beat in his American accent.

Buju banton is Rapping/toasting over a Jamaican beat in his Jamaican accent. It’s the same thing just difference of speech is it coincidences I do not thing so.

WHAT JAMAICANS brought to hip hop music is SOUND SYSTEMS WITH A DJ and the MAN RAPPING/ TOASTING=same thing different accent. In Jamaica the DJ is actually the MC. And the DJ in Jamaica is called the Selecta. So in essence we help to bring the American hip hop its DJ and the RAPPER/ TOASTER. It would be hard to have hiphop without the dj and the rapper in my opinion but American music have great influence on Jamaican music too.

Keep in mind that Jamaican music that lead to influencing HIP HOP. Jamaican was influence by Rock and Roll.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toasting

In the late 1960s and early 1970s a strain of Jamaican music called deejay toasting was developed. Deejays working for producers would play the latest hits on traveling sound systems at parties and add their "toasts" or vocals to the music. These "toasts" consisted of boastful commentaries, chants, half-sung rhymes, rhythmic chants, squeals, screams, and rhymed storytelling. [1]

Osbourne Ruddock (aka King Tubby) was a Jamaican sound recording engineer who created vocal-less rhythm backing tracks that were used by DJs doing "toasting" by creating one-off vinyl discs (also known as dub plates) of songs without the vocals and adding echo and sound effects[citation needed].

Late 1960s toasting deejays included U-Roy and Dennis Alcapone, the latter known for mixing gangster talk with humor in his toasting. In the early 1970s, toasting deejays included I-Roy (his nickname is an homage to U-Roy) and Dillinger, the latter known for his humorous toasting style. In the late 1970s, Trinity became a popular toasting deejay.

The rhythmic rhyming of vocals in Jamaican deejay toasting influenced the development of rapping in African-American hip-hop, [2] and the development of the Dancehall style. [1] (e.g., hip-hop pioneer and Jamaican ex-patriate DJ Kool Herc and Phife Dawg of A Tribe Called Quest). Jamaican deejay toasting also influenced various types of dance music, such as jungle music, and UK garage. Dancehall artists that have achieved pop hits with toasting-influenced vocals include Shabba Ranks, Shaggy and Sean Paul. Another up and coming Jamaican Toasting star is Damian Marley, son of reggae legend Bob Marley.

This should make it clear as day right here!

 

[Rudey]

Who are you calling a kid first of all? WOW you grew up in Jamaica, so what? I have relatives who are Jamaican and I was born in the West Indies, so mute your born in Jamaica point. You say most kids did not embrace hip hop in the 70's? Again, the shit wasn't called hip hop at the beginning.

Please tell me where I said hip hop started in Jamaica? Or do you call borrowing ELEMENTS the same thing? Again I saw what DaleMabry wrote. Did YOU READ what was stated by people IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS? PRODUCERS who WORKED back in those days with these musicians. I can see how history can be altered and ignored and stolen and people being ignorant to it now.

AGAIN? Where did I say KRS was the first rapper? Please READ!!! Calling him one of the pioneers is not the same thing as saying he's the FIRST RAPPER.

Your trying to discredit "my claim" when I gave references for the stuff that can be found in any library. ELEMENTS! ELEMENTS!

It's like a cook making chicken soup, but then just saying it's just soup and not counting the ELEMENT of chicken in the soup.

wtf is this bullshit

Kid, you shouldn't reply to me in the first place because this post prove that you are really not saying much.

Just blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

I addressed the issue that Hip Hop never started in Jamaica and you started to blah blah blah about which Jamaicans? KRS borrowed from Reggae, VIBE quincy Jone and more blah blah.

"my claim" do you even have one....

Since you never said or implied that hip hop started in Jamaica what exactly are you saying?



lol @relatives and you borned in the West Indies!

 

[roster]

wtf is this bullshit

Kid, you shouldn't reply to me in the first place because this post prove that you are really not saying much.

Just blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

I addressed the issue that Hip Hop never started in Jamaica and you started to blah blah blah about which Jamaicans? KRS borrowed from Reggae, VIBE quincy Jone and more blah blah.

"my claim" do you even have one....

Since you never said or implied that hip hop started in Jamaica what exactly are you saying?



lol @relatives and you borned in the West Indies!

Reading is your enemy I see(blah blah blah you say). I see your little game. Jamaone posted all that needs to be posted. I'm not the original poster, so what is your point? I didn't start this thread. You quoted "my claim" because I was being sarcastic about you trying to invalidate "claims" you think came from my own imagination instead of people who are apart of the history of the music genre. I'll take their words of wisdom over your ignorance and inability to understand articles, meaning of words, and history. Bro you don't even know me, yet you want to discard me about being born of West Indies descent. It's okay, proceed with your ignorance. You will tell me next the sky is pink regardless of the fact that is presented to you.

But to you this last paragraph is blah blah blah.

 

[roster]

wtf is this bullshit

Kid, you shouldn't reply to me in the first place because this post prove that you are really not saying much.

Just blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

I addressed the issue that Hip Hop never started in Jamaica and you started to blah blah blah about which Jamaicans? KRS borrowed from Reggae, VIBE quincy Jone and more blah blah.

"my claim" do you even have one....

Since you never said or implied that hip hop started in Jamaica what exactly are you saying?



lol @relatives and you borned in the West Indies!

Reading is your enemy I see(blah blah blah you say). I see your little game. Jamaone posted all that needs to be posted. I'm not the original poster, so what is your point? I didn't start this thread. You quoted "my claim" and missed the joke on you because I was being sarcastic about you trying to invalidate "claims" you think came from my own imagination instead of people who are apart of the history of the music genre. I'll take their words of wisdom over your ignorance and inability to understand articles, meaning of words, and history. Bro you don't even know me, yet you want to discard me about being born of West Indies descent. It's okay, proceed with your ignorance because I know how Jamaica loves to call other islands small island and so on. You will tell me next the sky is pink regardless of the fact that is presented to you.

But to you this last paragraph is blah blah blah.

I'm saying elements to stop your confusion Young Buck

 

[Rudey]

Reading is your enemy I see(blah blah blah you say). I see your little game. Jamaone posted all that needs to be posted. I'm not the original poster, so what is your point? I didn't start this thread. You quoted "my claim" because I was being sarcastic about you trying to invalidate "claims" you think came from my own imagination instead of people who are apart of the history of the music genre. I'll take their words of wisdom over your ignorance and inability to understand articles, meaning of words, and history. Bro you don't even know me, yet you want to discard me about being born of West Indies descent. It's okay, proceed with your ignorance. You will tell me next the sky is pink regardless of the fact that is presented to you.

But to you this last paragraph is blah blah blah.

More blah blah blah,you are basically saying nothing.

Little boy go play dolly house with your siblings and stop type fuckery.

You are wasting your own time.

"Jamaone posted all that needs to be posted" DUH!

Too bad you lack the knowledge to post anything that make sense that you have to run and c/s behind what ppl posted.

Like I said you shouldn't respond to me in the first place since I was only addressing the original poster claim.Go find some other way to increase your post count.

 

[Moore]

The Telegraph did a story about Jamaica's influence there. Read and weep haters!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/04/12/bmengland112.xml

An England Story: how Jamaica changed the voice of teenage Britain
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 12/04/2008



In the US, Jamaican-style MCs created hip hop. In the UK, says Peter Lyle, their influence has been subtler but just as strong

Listen to Tippa Irie's hit 'Complain Neighbour'
It is one of the mysteries of modern life.


'Maddest comedian is Kenny Everett': Papa Levi, who took British MCing to number one in Jamaica
How on earth did a peculiar kind of mockney patois become the default spoken English of a generation of British kids - white, black, Asian; rural, urban; posh, poor (and Ali G)? A new CD offers one solution. An England Story, a musical anthology that charts the impact of Jamaican reggae on British pop culture, is a fascinating survey of the musical scene in which that patois first took hold on these shores.

Jamaican MCing - also known as toasting, chatting, and, confusingly, deejaying - has been around since the late Sixties. As Jamaica's DJs invested in ever grander and louder equipment, the sound systems sought to outdo each other with both raw power and exclusive material. This led not only to the invention of the modern remix, but also the rise of the live MC, whose job was to enliven the crowd and insult rivals.

Jamaican expats in New York took these elements and turned them into something new: hip-hop. In Britain, though, their localisation was slower, more subtle, and truer to their roots.

An England Story started life as a mix by the DJ duo the Heatwave (Gabriel Myddelton and Gervase de Wilde) who wanted to make an aural history of the British reggae MC. Over the 25 years that the compilation covers, the consistent thread, Myddelton says, is "a feeling that you're the underdog and up against it. It is to some extent anti-authority, kicking out at being poor and living in some s*** place."

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From Tippa Irie's Complain Neighbour ("Turn that noise down!") to Things Change, a new track by Warrior Queen ("London no bed o' rose…me have to wipe me runny nose"), the lyrics contain a lingering resentment of the law, the lifestyle and the weather that greeted Jamaican immigrants to this country. Crucially, there is always humour, too - this was Saturday night music; even when they wanted to moan, MCs had to make their listeners want to party.

British dialects, particularly cockney, are a frequent source of comedy in the music, as are the delights of belonging to two cultures. "Sweetest singer is Sugar Minott/Maddest comedian is Kenny Everett," rhymes Papa Levi on My God My King, the 1984 single that put British MCs on the map. With its new, super-speedy style of MCing, it topped the British reggae charts, became the first Jamaican number one by a British MC, and had an audible influence on Jamaican stars. Soon after, Irie made the top 10, and fellow funnyman Smiley Culture won a cameo in Absolute Beginners.

That was probably the scene's pop peak. Soon, American rap would muscle in and present music-making Britons of Caribbean descent with an alternative, angrier sound to aspire to, and a harder one to make their own. Rodney P - an MC who toured with Big Audio Dynamite when he was 15, and has since worked with Roots Manuva and Björk - found a way. In 1988, his London Posse released Money Mad, a record that crudely but brilliantly spliced rap, reggae and local observation into a gleefully noisy new sound that finally gave British rap an identity of its own.

"We had been to New York by then," he recalls. "In New York, I became very nationalistic: I'm English, I'm not American. I was speaking more cockney." It's remarkably similar to the way Damon Albarn was later to define Blur's invention of Britpop as a response to US grunge.

Britpop is long gone, but the comic, kitchen-sink vernacular of British MCs still has echoes in the storytelling style of Lily Allen and Mike Skinner.

"You kind of forget, in England, that though reggae isn't really mainstream, it is all around," says Myddelton. "The places where reggae was really important - Southampton, Birmingham, London - are the places where things like garage and dubstep took off later." It's no coincidence: grime, jungle, and other dance scenes also owe the bulk of their DNA to the conventions of the reggae sound system.

An England Story is released by Soul Jazz, an independent label that, since the mid-1990s, has put out a series of compilations focused around specific strands of rap, reggae, soul, Latin and gospel music that have been otherwise neglected. "The reason we're still going," says its founder, Stuart Baker, "is that there are still areas of music that we want to go on to."

Tippa Irie's neighbour probably has some ideas for where they might look for their next release. "This reggy they play," he declares on Complain Neighbour as An England Story approaches its end, "is worser than opera."

An England Story is available now from www.souljazz.co.uk

 

[roster]

More blah blah blah,you are basically saying nothing.

Little boy go play dolly house with your siblings and stop type fuckery.

You are wasting your own time.

"Jamaone posted all that needs to be posted" DUH!

Too bad you lack the knowledge to post anything that make sense that you have to run and c/s behind what ppl posted.

Like I said you shouldn't respond to me in the first place since I was only addressing the original poster claim.Go find some other way to increase your post count.

Why u mad son?

 

[Wobble Wobble]

Crabs in a barrell, indeed. I speak as a part West Indian, part North American (North Carolina by way of Harlem and Plainfield) living part of my time in three countries.

The author of the original article has taken a few facts and conflated them into a thesis. He's wrong. The clearest declaration of Hip Hop's origins is on Criminal Minded. It's not for nothing that KRS1 did "Da Bridge is Ova" over a reggae beat. South Bronx is where it started. It's a thesis in and of itself.

A few other things: Malcolm X's mother was from Grenada. (someone already said it, but I want it to sink in)

Louis Farrakhan was a calypso singer in the 50s who travelled all over the United States, playing to... "Americans". Harry Belafonte was just more famous. Louis has multinational Caribbean heritage (and if one wants to be technical, Caribbean diaspora heritage). His mother is from St. Christopher and Nevis, his father from Jamaica and while Louis was born in the US, he spent the first year of his life in St. Kitts, the next six in Bermuda and the rest in New York and Boston. His father is buried in Bermuda and Louis still has family in Bermuda.

Caribbean people have always emigrated to the UK, France, Holland and North America because of the economic conditions and exploitation at home. Black people from the Caribbean were a part of all the major black American political movements, I'll say even beyond Prince Hall's induction in masonry. Hall was from Barbados, by the way. We served in the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Civil War and every one since - right down to the USMC's Shaggy in the Gulf War.

 

[PimpJuice]

A lot of Jamaicans/JA Americans did have an early hand in what we today know as hip-hop but for all intents and purposes, the shit started in the Bronx.Yea it has influences from Dub music, Reggae, the DJ (Selector) all that shit..James Brown..Muhammed Ali got dammnit LOL...but the shit started in the Bronx.Out in the Park.

Well spoken. I'm Jamaican and recognize that fact.

 

[Malegobia]

I tried readin that shit....didn't make it.
Check out my music fam

http://www.bgol.us/board/showthread.php?t=292714

 

[bigpaul]

So explain to me how a person's nationality has anything to do with the geographical starting point that such a person would begin something. He started dong his thing in the Bronx. No more discussion.
Now as far as Jamaican influence in the music... There is no debate. Just Ice, Foxy Brown, Beenie Man and so on...
Can we talk about something that is relevant today? Or a positive movement that's going on right now? Props to all who participated in getting Hip Hop where it is today, but what I want to know is...
How come we have sacrificed Hip Hop's creativity? We let mainstream radio and corporate record companies tell us what is hot. Which usually means simple, repetitive, negative and blatantly ignorant. Not all, but most. Let's bring it back.
I'm talking about like De La Soul, Beastie Boys, LL Cool J, Pharcyde, Leaders of the New School, A Tribe Called Quest, KRSONE, RUNDMC, DJ Jazzy Jeff & Fresh Prince, Common, Mos Def, Das EFX, EPMD and the list goes on and on.
Are you telling me that we cannot creatively talk about getting money, strippers, jewelry and how many guns you have?
Oh yeah, since I have a chance to say something here...
Why in the hell do we now have all of these hood dudes who are now incredibly wealthy and no longer have to live the way they used to still getting arrested over stupid shit?
Holla Back!

 

[sammy]

Bunch of nobody's. Go back to Jamaica and don't come back. Yea, they Jamaica but got their styles from black Americans. West Indians use our style too, we don't really use theirs.

THE BLACK MAN IN AMERICA IS THE MOST COPIED MAN ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET...BAR NONE

-Paul Mooney


[/B]

Do you even know where you get your style from ? baggy jeans was also introduce to America by shabba ranks.

So i'm pretty sure alot of those styles you thinking of were actually started in Jamaica.

 

[Sparks Po]

good post

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

I forgot I posted this pic...

 

[Majestic Lion]

ha @ this even bein' a debate.

 

[Narcotraffic]

Lazy. You punk muthafuckas want to come to America because Black Americans made life better for you smelly Jamaicans. You can finally use soap to wash up in. Show me were West Indians better off than Black Americans. Were are your West Indian or Jamaican Universities? You bad smelling fools were not here in the 1960s fighting and now you put down AMerican blacks. Shame on you. You'd still be living in a hut, if it was not for us.

Jamaica's a shit hole plain and simple. Go back there and don't come back. If you like it so much. This is my country. You would still be in Jamaica with little or no clothes on hunting fish rabbit for dinner.

do you know anything about the civil rights mov't?...the caribbean put much strength behind the blacks in america...talkin bout soap and shit...you think making stupid comments makes you right?

you sound like a white guy telling ******s to go back to africa...you're a cariccature son...you're sad and you don't even know it...

 

[smax51]

if ur parents are from one place and ur born in another, but u claim that place where ur parents are from, go the fuck back.

 

[Narcotraffic]

of course hip-hop didn't start in jamaica...but the most important elements of hip-hop were brought over from jamaica...that's a fact...without jamaica hip-hop wouldn't be hip-hop...fact...also without big band and soul music from america, reggae wouldn't be reggae...fact...we are all linked, the hate and ignorance is really disheartening...the other day i say a photo of stevie wonder chilling and laughing with bob marley...i'm sure those great men would weep at this thread (sorry stevie, let bob read it to you)

 

[Narcotraffic]

So explain to me how a person's nationality has anything to do with the geographical starting point that such a person would begin something. He started dong his thing in the Bronx. No more discussion.

no...he began doing his thing in kingston then put niggaz in the BX on to some new shit and they ran with it...learn!

 

[Narcotraffic]

if ur parents are from one place and ur born in another, but u claim that place where ur parents are from, go the fuck back.

born and raised in jamaica...i'm in kingston right now living it up sitting on almost an acre smoking the real shit...i hated the 8 years i spent in america but i love the $$$ i brought back...thanks guys!

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

 

[P03t]

Third world muthafuckas.

hold up I thought you said you weren't going to be ignorant when it came to foriegn blks...you stated this in this very thread and others....?

now you back on your "I Hate Foriegn Blacks" Bullshit....

amazing....black man still getting gun the fuck down by pigs and you continue with this outraegous rhetoric

 

[P03t]

You know, I'm not gonna make anymore negative comments about West Indians. I think I did enough. I was clowning around then I took it to the other level. So I aint gonna clown around no more.

 

[HarlemPerv]

If hip-hop started in Jamaica, then let me ask one question: Why are The Last Poets and Gil Scott Heron considered the beginnings of rap?

 

[P03t]

If hip-hop started in Jamaica, then let me ask one question: Why are The Last Poets and Gil Scott Heron considered the beginnings of rap?

it didn't...reggae is one of Hip Hop influences....it was created in the BX....

many genres have roots in Hip Hop...let this thread die with the ignorance and bullshit...

some of us are fucking retarded fight each other for nothing...