You Must Learn: HIP-HOP STARTED IN JAMAICA... Not The South Bronx!!!

[kain]

A lot of Jamaicans/JA Americans did have an early hand in what we today know as hip-hop but for all intents and purposes, the shit started in the Bronx.Yea it has influences from Dub music, Reggae, the DJ (Selector) all that shit..James Brown..Muhammed Ali got dammnit LOL...but the shit started in the Bronx.Out in the Park.

This statement is the gospel of hip hop.
I truly grew up on the shit.
Elements of it can be found in artists named as well as my favorite George Clinton.

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

This topic is extremely stupid

1, hip hop is a lot more than just rap. I suggest you dumb fucks watch Style Wars and Wildstyle. You'll also see that latinos and whites were involved.
2, Kool Herc was from Jamaica, but they weren't actually rapping and park jams were done before him. If anything he changed the DJ concept. Today a DJ is about as extinct as breakin.
3, You can base rap off scatting or simple poetry. That's like saying jazz came from classical music. Everything had a forefather. Rock had blues.

In the words of Kanye West, am, you "can't get much wronger".

1- Everybody knows Whites & Latinos were involved in NYC Hip-Hop... that's not being disputed. And anyone who has to watch Style Wars and Wildstyle to know that isn't qualified to speak on the subject.

2- Kool Herc was a DJ, but it was also he who introduced rappin'/emceeing/battling via the Jamaican tradition of toasting. ot to mention Kool Herc wasn't the only Jamaican in the Bronx obviously. NYC has the heaviest concetration of Jamaicans in America. They ALL along with Herc transpoted their tradtions to NYC, where (along with other NYC cultures, styles etc) it evolved into what we now call Hip-Hop.

3- Rap ISN'T based solely off of improvised vocals, but even if it was there's no comparison between Jazz and Classical_ not a great analogy there. Still, if you're willing to concede that "everything has a forefather", why then challenge the proven facts that Hip-Hop's forefather was rooted in Jamaican culture... not just one Jamaican man (Kool Herc)?

Look fellas, face the facts... Hip-Hop did START in Jamaica, but that's NOT to strip away all of the obvious influences S.BX. played in it becoming what we now know as Hip-Hop. It's not an either or situation. You cats really need to learn how to share with the other kids. LOL

 

[harlem1nyc]

why weep...it's all African....down to the Puerto Rican congas..uhhhhh....Get it...conga/CONGO....All from Africa....we started it all....

 

[Rudey]

Some of the comments are pathetic and destructively ignorant

Enough said!

 

[unda_line]

Fuck that. I'm tired of having to blend in with these lazy faggots. I was raised here because my parents wanted a better life economically but black america has devolved into cultural depravity. No standards. All the worst ones do is sit back and wait for a handout. They think Obama is going to send Mana from heaven from the White House and when he doesn't they'll call him a sell out. I'm a Jamaican-American who's tired of being caught between two worlds. Black Americans too dumb to understand that racism is a captialist smoke screen, reparations are a pipe dream and that the only person who can "save" you is YOU. And Jamaicans who don't understand that America isn't paved with streets of Gold. I'm glad Ming started this thread so cats can finally see Jamaica's worth and contributions to the WORLD.

Every BLACK man No matter where they come from has a contribution to make to the world. Now for the LAZY black American comment. Being a BLACK AMERICAN that lived in Brooklyn for 10 years (left about 5 years ago) I have met plenty of lazy Jamaicans too and in fact a lot of the projects in the BK have people of West Indian descent.
However, many of the best friends that I made in NYC were all West Indian.

What West Indians do though that pisses me off is use that 10% or 15% of African Americans that have given up to represent the other 85% that are doing their thing JUST LIKE WHITE PEOPLE!!!

I live in a city of 200,000 and if one Ninja decides to shoot another Ninja that somehow represents everyone.

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

why weep...it's all African....down to the Puerto Rican congas..uhhhhh....Get it...conga/CONGO....All from Africa....we started it all....

That's just it... it's not the JA's doing the 'weeping'. Why is it SO hard to acknowledge the simple phrase 'start'? Cats make it seem like I'm silly enough to say BX didn't do shit. Like JA just handed Hip-Hop over to NYC as is. That's ridiculous. It's a simple fact. What we know as Hip-Hop today, started in Jamaica 'yesterday'. That's it... STARTED... as in originated. Period. Everyone keeps saying that everything has a source, but then keep side stepping JA as Hip-Hop's source, even though ALL the evidence is clear. What's up with that?

 

[truemagic1000]

Hip Hop was created by a Jamaican named Kool Herc aka Clive. He used his culture to help create hip hop. But where he created was in the South Bronx. So therefore hip-hop started in the South Bronx. End of story.

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

Every BLACK man No matter where they come from has a contribution to make to the world. Now for the LAZY black American comment. Being a BLACK AMERICAN that lived in Brooklyn for 10 years (left about 5 years ago) I have met plenty of lazy Jamaicans too and in fact a lot of the projects in the BK have people of West Indian descent.
However, many of the best friends that I made in NYC were all West Indian.

What West Indians do though that pisses me off is use that 10% or 15% of African Americans that have given up to represent the other 85% that are doing their thing JUST LIKE WHITE PEOPLE!!!

I live in a city of 200,000 and if one Ninja decides to shoot another Ninja that somehow represents everyone.

For cryin' out loud, HOW THE HELL DID THIS TURN INTO A JAMAICANS VS AMERICANS THREAD?! It sounds like some of you cats in here (on both sides) have some serious Willie Lynch issues! Some of type shit being said about our own people in this thread is just down right embarassing.

Even punk rockers will admit that Punk started in Jamaica via Ska. But, brothers have THIS nuc of an issue sharing the creation Hip-Hop? WTF is wrong with you people?

Blues man Robert Johnson is hailed by ALL Classic Rock artists/bands as the father of Rock music. NO, he didn't sound shit like Led Zepplen, but without him there would be no Led Zepplen... LZ gladly embraces that fact. Why the fuck is it SO hard for Black muthafuckas to fuckin' SHARE?!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

Hip Hop was created by a Jamaican named Kool Herc aka Clive. He used his culture to help create hip hop. But where he created was in the South Bronx. So therefore hip-hop started in the South Bronx. End of story.

Wrong. Kool Herc was only one of many Jamaicans who live in S.BX.. He just happened to be the one who introduced their culture to the masses. Yes, he presented their thriving culture in Jamaica to the NYC masses. Hip-Hop was not one man's brain child... It was one people's culture represented by one of their own in a foreign land from their/it's origin.

 

[unda_line]

Wrong. Kool Herc was only one of many Jamaicans who live in S.BX.. He just happened to be the one who introduced their culture to the masses. Yes, he presented their thriving culture in Jamaica to the NYC masses. Hip-Hop was not one man's brain child... It was one people's culture represented by one of their own in a foreign land from their/it's origin.

Thats my point.... The way that this post was set up it sets up an US VS THEM atmoshpere. KRS-1 even said that HIP-HOP started in the BX and he is supposedly "The Teacher".

You might have been better received If you said that the Freestyle battle started in Jamaica.

Because Hip Hop....IS The Music, Graffiti, The Dancing (B-Boys) which came from all over. I'm an old cat and really don't care too much about this thread and HIP-HOP while having a love hate relationship with it (Listening to Gang-Starr in car now) cause it has turned into bullshit.

That Said...Could you grace us with a thread that highlights the greatest contributers to HIP-HOP Every year from 1981 with your knowledge base

 

[34real]

HOW THE HELL DID THIS TURN INTO A JAMAICANS VS AMERICANS THREAD?!

Simple when you have a bunch of Jamaicans who come on here and say a bunch of stupid shit that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and black americans take offence to and start throwing back some dirt,stones and some more shit,THIS IS THE RESULT.

This thread needs to be deleted,finished with,If you going to school people or younger dudes such as myself you have to do it in such away that it make sense because right now it doesn't.The bronx is the "Birth place",some motherfuckers dont even know that so how in the fuck do you expect for people to grasp the idea of it all started in Jamaica?I understand about the SOUND STYSTEMS the dj yapping over the mic in JA but that was the sprankle of rain before the storm that we now know as hiphop music.
Hiphop started in Jamaica because the man who started if from there?
A bunch of hiphop artist parents are from Jamaica so that helps the arguement?
The Bronx is considered the birthplace of hiphop because It was started in Jamaica?
Why can you understand that HipHop started in Jamaica?Ok and who started started DJing, rapping,break dancing and doing graffiti in jamaica,who?
Its a bold statement that you threw out there but you didn't have nothing of substance to back it up or nothing to connect the two,except for one man who is now fighting to save the BIRTH PLACE OF HIPHOP

Birthplace Of Hip-Hop Still Up For Sale
Despite having survived a previous take-over attempt that would have resulted in the displacement of several low income families, the building widely accepted as the birthplace of Hip-Hop remains in danger.



On Wednesday, New York City and State politicians rallied alongside tenants of 1520 Sedgwick Avenue in the Bronx, protesting the proposed sale of the historical building that would result in unaffordable rents for the 100-unit building’s current residents.



For close to two years, the tenants have been fighting to maintain the building’s status as one of the last remaining affordable housing complexes in the West Bronx.



"We’ve got to keep the fire burning," DJ Kool Herc told The New York Daily News.



Kool Herc is credited with laying the groundwork for the invention of Hip-Hop during a party at the legendary building on Sedgwick and Cedar.



"It’s not just happening here, people got problems in all five boroughs. We’re going to keep up the fight," DJ Kool Herc said.



The tenants celebrated a brief victory in February, when the New York City Department of Housing Preservation and Development denied a proposal by the building’s owners to sell the property to real estate developer Mark Karasick for $9 million.



According to The New York Daily News, the price, which the city says exceeded the value of the building, would have been the first step in a practice known as “predatory equity."



The unscrupulous practice allows banks and mortgage lenders to make loans they cannot support as a motive to later sell the properties to private investors, often leaving current tenants out in the cold.



The 1520 Sedgwick Ave. Tenants’ Association still hopes to raise funds in time to purchase the building themselves, a move which, last December, the building’s owners said they would not oppose.

 

[34real]

HOW THE HELL DID THIS TURN INTO A JAMAICANS VS AMERICANS THREAD?!

Simple when you have a bunch of Jamaicans who come on here and say a bunch of stupid shit that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and black americans take offence to and start throwing back some dirt,stones and some more shit,THIS IS THE RESULT.

This thread needs to be deleted,finished with,If you going to school people or younger dudes such as myself you have to do it in such away that it make sense because right now it doesn't.The bronx is the "Birth place",some motherfuckers dont even know that so how in the fuck do you expect for people to grasp the idea of it all started in Jamaica?I understand about the SOUND STYSTEMS the dj yapping over the mic in JA but that was the sprankle of rain before the storm that we now know as hiphop music.
Hiphop started in Jamaica because the man who started if from there?
A bunch of hiphop artist parents are from Jamaica so that helps the arguement?
The Bronx is considered the birthplace of hiphop because It was started in Jamaica?
Why can you understand that HipHop started in Jamaica?Ok and who started started DJing, rapping,break dancing and doing graffiti in jamaica,who?
Its a bold statement that you threw out there but you didn't have nothing of substance to back it up or nothing to connect the two,except for one man who is now fighting to save the BIRTH PLACE OF HIPHOP

Birthplace Of Hip-Hop Still Up For Sale
Despite having survived a previous take-over attempt that would have resulted in the displacement of several low income families, the building widely accepted as the birthplace of Hip-Hop remains in danger.



On Wednesday, New York City and State politicians rallied alongside tenants of 1520 Sedgwick Avenue in the Bronx, protesting the proposed sale of the historical building that would result in unaffordable rents for the 100-unit building’s current residents.



For close to two years, the tenants have been fighting to maintain the building’s status as one of the last remaining affordable housing complexes in the West Bronx.



"We’ve got to keep the fire burning," DJ Kool Herc told The New York Daily News.



Kool Herc is credited with laying the groundwork for the invention of Hip-Hop during a party at the legendary building on Sedgwick and Cedar.



"It’s not just happening here, people got problems in all five boroughs. We’re going to keep up the fight," DJ Kool Herc said.



The tenants celebrated a brief victory in February, when the New York City Department of Housing Preservation and Development denied a proposal by the building’s owners to sell the property to real estate developer Mark Karasick for $9 million.



According to The New York Daily News, the price, which the city says exceeded the value of the building, would have been the first step in a practice known as “predatory equity."



The unscrupulous practice allows banks and mortgage lenders to make loans they cannot support as a motive to later sell the properties to private investors, often leaving current tenants out in the cold.



The 1520 Sedgwick Ave. Tenants’ Association still hopes to raise funds in time to purchase the building themselves, a move which, last December, the building’s owners said they would not oppose.

 

[34real]

sorry double post.

 

[34real]

sorry,

 

[34real]

........

 

[34real]

....

 

[34real]

How did this post so many times.

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

34real, you couldn't possibly be reading my replies if that's your assessment of my position. I'm not resting everything on one man's shoulders. Not to mention your accounts of the origin of the elements are incorrect. It's not just freestyle battles that existed in Jamaica before Hip-Hop existed in NYC. But, no matter how much substantiating proof of that that's supplied some people will simply NOT concede to the point. But, I'm not exactly a youngin' either and this thread took on a really ig'nant tone quick... There's no reasonable excuse for showing love to the Jamaican heritage of Hip-Hop (without denying it's American heritage) to turn into the bullshit in this thread.

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

How did this post so many times.

Yeah, damn... What's up with the board?
My reply jammed up on me too. Server issue, perhaps.

 

[knightmelodic]

There is nothing new here. Like most new art forms, hip-hop was a conglomeration of several things. Toasting or dubbing being just one of them. (BTW, call and response and "rapping" was being done in the memphis area and the black belt before herc was born.) I was there. I never remember Herc playing any raggae shit. He played old JB samples and Stax and even Motown breaks. But that was in the Bronx, my brotha. NYC. Soon the other boroughs picked it up. Jamaica was a very tiny part of the equation. It's a stretch to even suggest hip-hop started in jamaica.

 

[P03t]

There is nothing new here. Like most new art forms, hip-hop was a conglomeration of several things. Toasting or dubbing being just one of them. (BTW, call and response and "rapping" was being done in the memphis area and the black belt before herc was born.) I was there. I never remember Herc playing any raggae shit. He played old JB samples and Stax and even Motown breaks. But that was in the Bronx, my brotha. NYC. Soon the other boroughs picked it up. Jamaica was a very tiny part of the equation. It's a stretch to even suggest hip-hop started in jamaica.

my fam is from the West indies and yeah your right...it did not start in JAMROCK but BX, NYC...

Reggae like other Genres influence Hip Hop...it did not...I repeat did not start in Jamaica....

it did have a mjor influence tho...

 

[Mrfreddygoodbud]

Re: You Must Learn: Hip Hop Started In Jamaica... Not The South Bronx!!!

yeah ok a fuckin backspin to a 1990 to spinning on your head started in jamaica..

I do agree there is a large reggae that was later infused with hip hop, but cold crush, charley chase, Flash, Funky Four there was nobody in jamaica rapping at that time....

i think herc is reachin and a lil piss because it seemed as though hip hop only took a couple of pioneers with it..flash and the furious five and left him behind...

I dont know of too many american songs taken directly from reggae, but there are tons of reggae songs, just straight up SOUL redone verbatim with a reggae sound..

I also think R&B and soul influenced reggae more than reggae influenced hip hop..
but I wouldnt be surprised because the only think that separates a Jamaican brother from and American brother were the stops on the slave ship....

so its all connected!!!

FIYA HAVE FI BUN!!!

BULLET!!!!!!

BANANNA CLIP!!!

 

[WorldEX]

All of the top black rappers in the game are Jamaican descent. i am not Jamaican but give props when it's due.
KRS ONE
Biggie
Busta
Heavy D
Kool Herc

Just to name a few.

 

[34real]

All of the top black rappers in the game are Jamaican descent. i am not Jamaican but give props when it's due.
KRS ONE
Biggie
Busta
Heavy D
Kool Herc

Just to name a few.

Statements like this is what has gotten to post so boggled down with bullshit because this means nothing,it adds nothing to the equation.Ok I get that...props to their parents for fucking in jamaica and bringing their ass on usa dirt and dumping them off because without them I dont know where or if there would be a hiphop.

Moving right along......

 

[Complex]

In the words of Kanye West, am, you "can't get much wronger".

1- Everybody knows Whites & Latinos were involved in NYC Hip-Hop... that's not being disputed. And anyone who has to watch Style Wars and Wildstyle to know that isn't qualified to speak on the subject.

2- Kool Herc was a DJ, but it was also he who introduced rappin'/emceeing/battling via the Jamaican tradition of toasting. ot to mention Kool Herc wasn't the only Jamaican in the Bronx obviously. NYC has the heaviest concetration of Jamaicans in America. They ALL along with Herc transpoted their tradtions to NYC, where (along with other NYC cultures, styles etc) it evolved into what we now call Hip-Hop.

3- Rap ISN'T based solely off of improvised vocals, but even if it was there's no comparison between Jazz and Classical_ not a great analogy there. Still, if you're willing to concede that "everything has a forefather", why then challenge the proven facts that Hip-Hop's forefather was rooted in Jamaican culture... not just one Jamaican man (Kool Herc)?

Look fellas, face the facts... Hip-Hop did START in Jamaica, but that's NOT to strip away all of the obvious influences S.BX. played in it becoming what we now know as Hip-Hop. It's not an either or situation. You cats really need to learn how to share with the other kids. LOL

Again, you don't seem to get this...hip hop just isn't rap.

That destroys your basic premise

If YOU had watched Wild Style or Style Wars, you wouldn't keep defining rap as hip hop. So obviously YOU have not seen them

And there were also Dominicans and Puerto Ricans in the Bronx, who's culture added to hip hop, what the fuck does that have to do with the price of tea in china.

There's no comparison between jazz and classical Which music form existed first? Do you know? You think jazz just existed? Bad analogy Jazz came from slaves learning to play european instruments like the violin and piano.

Do you know anything about scatting, which is based in jazz? Which is from the 20's? Which comes from West African culture.

Going by your bullshit definition hip hop started in Africa. Who invented graf? What about breakin? Do you know, or is that not a part of hip hop

Again, this topic is amazingly stupid

 

[uptownharlem]

HIP HOP is not only mc'ing....

what about graph? dj'ing? b-boying? beatboxing?

did jamaica create that too??

this is the dumbest fucking shit ive seen on bgol in a minute.

 

[WorldEX]

Statements like this is what has gotten to post so boggled down with bullshit because this means nothing,it adds nothing to the equation.Ok I get that...props to their parents for fucking in jamaica and bringing their ass on usa dirt and dumping them off because without them I dont know where or if there would be a hiphop.

Moving right along......

JA+USA=HIPHOP
USA+USA=Soulja Boy
here is my Equation

 

[34real]

USA+USA=Soulja Boy

Soulja boys parents are of Jamaican descent,so crank that soulja boy & yooooooouuuuuuuu.........you notice how he rocks the flag every so often right or the color yellow?Island Love

 

[WorldEX]

Soulja boys parents are of Jamaican descent,so crank that soulja boy & yooooooouuuuuuuu.........you notice how he rocks the flag every so often right or the color yellow?Island Love

prove that Not because he rock the flag or colors.

 

[DaleMabry]

There is nothing new here. Like most new art forms, hip-hop was a conglomeration of several things. Toasting or dubbing being just one of them. (BTW, call and response and "rapping" was being done in the memphis area and the black belt before herc was born.) I was there. I never remember Herc playing any raggae shit. He played old JB samples and Stax and even Motown breaks. But that was in the Bronx, my brotha. NYC. Soon the other boroughs picked it up. Jamaica was a very tiny part of the equation. It's a stretch to even suggest hip-hop started in jamaica.

Cats were rapping on old blues songs before my grandfather was born.

Cats in the South were spitting Shine and Stagolee poems in tall tale (lying) contests to each other before my great-grandfather was born.

What Ming keeps missing is that Jamaican DJ and roots / reggae culture itself was tremendously influenced by Black American DJs and Jazz, Blues and Soul artists.

So the very cultural tropes Kool Herc helped bring to America were itself a response to culture (Black) Americans sent over to Jamaica.

How then can you claim hip-hop "started" in Jamaica?

You can't. I understand your motives, Ming but you are flat wrong.

Elements of Jamaican music and DJ culture were brought to the Bronx, fused with elements from all over the place (James Brown, Muhammad Ali, George Clinton, Capoeira, NYC gang culture, Puerto Rican and Dominican salsa, bomba y plena, even Roman graffiti and Egyptian visuals, all sorts of shit) and the stew resulted in hip-hop.

You are denying everyone credit by zeroing in on one contributor and one man.

Thats like saying the United States began in Virginia because ONE or TWO of the Founders, Washington and Jefferson, were Virginians.

Thats just flat wrong, I'm sorry, but I understand why you are trying to make this big fuss. You feel Jamaicans dont get enough credit, so be it but this is overcorrecting for the problem.

I dont know of too many american songs taken directly from reggae, but there are tons of reggae songs, just straight up SOUL redone verbatim with a reggae sound..

I also think R&B and soul influenced reggae more than reggae influenced hip hop..

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

Again, you don't seem to get this...hip hop just isn't rap.

That destroys your basic premise

If YOU had watched Wild Style or Style Wars, you wouldn't keep defining rap as hip hop. So obviously YOU have not seen them

Are you blind or just illiterate, cuz? I never said Hip-Hop is just Rap. Quote me where I said ONCE that Hip-Hop was just Rap. The only premise getting destroyed here in the false premise you're attribiting to me.

And btw, I've seen both of theose flicks. And?

And there were also Dominicans and Puerto Ricans in the Bronx, who's culture added to hip hop, what the fuck does that have to do with the price of tea in china.

There you go again with redundant info that I've already conceded to from jump street. Reading is fundamental.

There's no comparison between jazz and classical Which music form existed first? Do you know? You think jazz just existed? Bad analogy Jazz came from slaves learning to play european instruments like the violin and piano.

You're a fool.

Do you know anything about scatting, which is based in jazz? Which is from the 20's? Which comes from West African culture.

Going by your bullshit definition hip hop started in Africa. Who invented graf? What about breakin? Do you know, or is that not a part of hip hop

You really think you droppin' science right now!

Again, this topic is amazingly stupid

Nah, kid, the only thing amazingly stupid here is...

 

[Complex]

I'm discussing shit with a person who has no idea about the history of music or rap for that matter

Look at YOUR title idiot

Does it say, rap started in jamaica? Does it say, DJin started in Jamaica. What does it say

Fuckin dumb ass idiot

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

I'm discussing shit with a person who has no idea about the history of music or rap for that matter

Look at YOUR title idiot

Does it say, rap started in jamaica? Does it say, DJin started in Jamaica. What does it say

Fuckin dumb ass idiot

Are you drunk?

 

[hairysnatcheater]

MEGATRON SNATCHY SAYS"UR A DICKHEAD" BIG UP TO THE JAMAICANS AND ALL BLACK PEOPLE..... AND MY WHITE GIRLS TOO

 

[Black Sexxxploitation]

Cats were rapping on old blues songs before my grandfather was born.

Cats in the South were spitting Shine and Stagolee poems in tall tale (lying) contests to each other before my great-grandfather was born.

What Ming keeps missing is that Jamaican DJ and roots / reggae culture itself was tremendously influenced by Black American DJs and Jazz, Blues and Soul artists.

So the very cultural tropes Kool Herc helped bring to America were itself a response to culture (Black) Americans sent over to Jamaica.

How then can you claim hip-hop "started" in Jamaica?

You can't. I understand your motives, Ming but you are flat wrong.

Elements of Jamaican music and DJ culture were brought to the Bronx, fused with elements from all over the place (James Brown, Muhammad Ali, George Clinton, Capoeira, NYC gang culture, Puerto Rican and Dominican salsa, bomba y plena, even Roman graffiti and Egyptian visuals, all sorts of shit) and the stew resulted in hip-hop.

You are denying everyone credit by zeroing in on one contributor and one man.

Thats like saying the United States began in Virginia because ONE or TWO of the Founders, Washington and Jefferson, were Virginians.

Thats just flat wrong, I'm sorry, but I understand why you are trying to make this big fuss. You feel Jamaicans dont get enough credit, so be it but this is overcorrecting for the problem.

Great post, especially the parts in bold.