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Movie Debate: Why are modern movies so bad?
- Thread starter playahaitian
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In the 80s there was the thing, the fly, the blob, little shop of horrors.. all remakes and they were all good.. so just cause a movie is remade dosent mean they suck, it just means the people who currently make films suck at making them
They had to be good because those originals were B movies everyone forgot. Their directors couldn't ride the coattails of an established franchise with millions of built-in fans like they do today.
Also, in the '80s remakes were the exception. The decade is better known for films like Terminator, RoboCop, back to the Future, Rambo, and far too many others to name.
By contrast, aside from sinners how many truly great original movies have been made in the last 5 years?
And no, that's not a rhetorical question. I genuinely want to know because I'm tired of watching hot garbage.
You’re talking to the wrong person when asking about modern movies, been said my fave era of movies were 80/90s.. when it come to the 2000s my list is short.. in fact people, especially females have been asking me to send them links of things like good thrillers of the past.. I said lots of movies are terrible in modern times, hence they put more energy into the trailers instead of making good films comment
There is a lot of great observations and opinions in this thread. One I'll add that has really been pissing me off lately is the term 'crowd pleasing' movies.
Whenever I hear thay phrase now, I know that we're mostly likely dealing with a piece of shit. Crowd pleasing basically translates to, "we made sure this shit was middle of the road/generic enough to not offend anyone and filled the spaces in-between with music videos."
Crowd pleasing movies are designed to make a big splash on their opening weekend, and then be easily forgotten because what little story was there isn't worth remembering or discussing with friends.
Superman was a crowd pleasing movie.
Deadpool / Wolverine was a crowd pleasing movie. Both made money as their paper thin storylines went in one ear and out the other. But they definitely made money so expect more of the same.
Whenever I hear thay phrase now, I know that we're mostly likely dealing with a piece of shit. Crowd pleasing basically translates to, "we made sure this shit was middle of the road/generic enough to not offend anyone and filled the spaces in-between with music videos."
Crowd pleasing movies are designed to make a big splash on their opening weekend, and then be easily forgotten because what little story was there isn't worth remembering or discussing with friends.
Superman was a crowd pleasing movie.
Deadpool / Wolverine was a crowd pleasing movie. Both made money as their paper thin storylines went in one ear and out the other. But they definitely made money so expect more of the same.
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Come to think of it I wonder if movies became too big to succeed.
In the '80s and '90s, when movies had seven or eight figure budgets, investing in a picture was a bit like buying penny stock. You put up surplus cash and if the picture did good you'd make five times your investment. If the picture flopped at least you wouldn't lose your shirt.
But now that the budgets are 10 times higher they HAVE to make money no matter what!
So instead of banking on a movie star playing an original character they bank on a B list actor starring in a franchise. Instead of aiming the movie towards an American audience they try to satisfy the whole world and it censors.
In the end you get a movie that's made for everyone and satisfies no one.
Scary movies and comedies have various things in common..historically they are cheap to make and tend to make great flips.. for instance a horror flick can cost 1-10 million and make 40-70 million or more same with comedies.. you depend on the film to be entertaining and for it to grab a cult following… now if you had 200 million dollars, wouldn’t it be better to make 20 + films that generate 40-70 million(or more) , than investing in one flick that you hope makes it big or hits a billion dollars? 20 films is more content, caters to various audiences, and has more options for the consumers to see, also pay… when you have a lower budget you have to work more on it actually being a good film with limited resources.. I rather put out 20 flicks than 1 thing hoping it hits
They can make 10 times their budget, but usually don't. Even with legendary horror directors at the helm.
John Carpenter had a smash hit with Halloween. Doubled his money on Christine. But lost money on ghosts of Mars, and memoirs of an invisible man. The thing was a cult classic, but still lost money anyway.
Wes Craven had a huge success with nightmare on elm Street. People under the stairs had a respectable return. But vampire in Brooklyn was a huge flop.
So your investment could be the next Friday the 13th or it could be the next Jack Frost. Would you rather put your money into that, or a well-established franchise you know will make something even if the movie sucks?
I love this addition. Appreciate you puttin it in the mix
I’ll piggy back off it bec of the horror/comedy discussion that followed
Just came out of WEAPONS - packed house
That movie - as I could easily tell from the script* - is 100% a CROWD PLEASER. (However it’s also well written and well directed.)
It’s just a SLIGHTLY different way of doing the crowd pleaser. Tho it STILL hits some of the "we made sure this shit was middle of the road/generic enough to not offend anyone and filled the spaces in-between with music videos.” modern big dumb crowd pleaser conventions you describe well here.
Hell by design Coogler has said “grilled cheese” lol otherwise known as — SINNERS is intended as a crowd pleaser.
but it and I think Weapons also proves that doesn’t have to be a bad thing. Cut your modern crowd pleaser from the JAWS cloth… and you’ll be alright.
Also, genre movies by definition follow certain formulas and in that sense they kind of HAVE to be some type of crowd pleaser
And genre movies/stories are (even if independent) almost all that can get made/distributed in Hollywood/American studios right now - the non genre movies in the Oscar etc award nominations were about the only non genre flicks that came out in any of the last years.
I think I like Neon and when I have seen one Miramax on the indie side. But on the largest scale (with the arguable exception of the post Nolan DKnight superhero movies) I see Warner Bros doing the most rn in terms of finding the balance as a studio by working projects that intentionally push the creative boundaries of what has become the formulaic crowd pleaser. From Minecraft. To Sinners. To FD:Bloodlines. To Weapons. And more similar flicks just this year.
They are supporting/investing in filmmakers who elevate this shit. And another thing is that when shit don’t seem like it’s connecting… they are ready to pivot
The new trailer for DiCaprio flick- something about ANOTHER BATTLE EVERY DAY…? — It’s way the fuck more uptempo. First trailer was tryin to lean into the comedic. Shit was flat. This leans into the “battlefield” of it all - smartly using the Kendrick/Beyonce “Freedom” song to appeal to a very different much wider audience.
Hope these ramblings add some value to the discussion. I feel like this thread only exists bec niggas care and/or are themselves creatives. So if nothing else, I will say that my intended takeaway is that
- there is inspiration in the past (your favorite old flicks and the best you haven’t yet gotten around to seeing…),
- there is inspiration in the present (most loved it but love/hate/or bland and indifferent, SINNERS by itself was/is too big of a moment culturally not to stir you up)
- and maybe with all this inspiration, get more serious about learning and/or exercising the craft of storytelling yourself
American Fiction was imo fantastic. And it, even more than Erasure (adapted novel) before it, was born of caring about stories and being mad fuckin frustrated with the dumb lazy sick sad “crowd pleasing” state of the American storytelling industry
*check the EBooks thread and props to @HellBoy for reposting the screenplay if you’re interested
Saw cost 1 million to make and made 55 million in the us and 102 million worldwide.. saw 2 cost 4 million and gross 87 million in the us and made 147 million worldwide.. I’ll take the movie that flips 100 times my investment or 36 times my investment.. that series has generated over a billion dollars being a low budget film
All valid points.
I will say there is a stark difference between filling the space with space music videos and using music to advance the narrative.
In Sinners and 40 Arces, the music is used very much as a center piece to move the narrative. The ending scene in 40 Arces helps perfectly end the narrative and show the character finding their way back to faith & God. The music in Sinners help tie all the narratives of the story to the real world in a way that ALL CULTURES can relate to.
Whereas in movies like Superman, we have scenes like the Green Lantern/ Justice Friends fight. It's literally the actor Nathan Filliot walking from the left to right, looking cool and posing, while the CGI artists go crazy in the background and the director plays with his Ipod.
Deadpool and Wolverine made 1.3 billion the highest grossing rated r ever! It might not have been a well written movie but it definitely didn’t go out one ear and the other!
That movie came out and suddenly every white bride wanted "bye bye bye" at their wedding. Crazy Canadian Ryan Reynolds almost single-handedly created a 2000s boy band revolution.
Never go against the kid @playahaitian
Look whose number 1 at the box office hehehe..like I said horror flicks and comedies the best flip
Box Office: ‘Weapons’ Impresses With $42.5 Million Debut, ‘Freakier Friday’ Starts Strong With $29 Million Opening
'Weapons' tops the box office with $42.5 million, 'Freakier Friday' opens strong with $29 million.
variety.com
Hehe
Box Office: ‘Weapons’ Impresses With $42.5 Million Debut, ‘Freakier Friday’ Starts Strong With $29 Million Opening
'Weapons' tops the box office with $42.5 million, 'Freakier Friday' opens strong with $29 million.
variety.com
Does anyone remember any other songs or moment from the musical part of that movie that stood out?
Genuinely asking?
I thought the opening with Bye, Bye, Bye was the funniest/ most clever part of the movie. It just sucked that the song ended and the moment was over, the movie keep going for another 2 hours.
I had no idea the movie caused a resurgence in popularity for the song and I couldn't care less that it made over a billion. Unless someone had money riding on the product, I'm not sure what box office numbers has to do in a conversation about quality.
Couldn't tell you. I gave up during that long ass time continuum explanation.
But a lot of songs get revived in movies and end up becoming wedding classics, especially amongst the whites.
Like Steelers wheel's "stuck in the middle with you" was a long forgotten one hit wonder until reservoir dogs came out. 40 years later couples are still putting it on their wedding playlists.
The whites forgot all about Al Green after that horrible Amy Lennox duet, but then Marcellus Wallace gets introduced to "let's stay together" and now it's hard to play a wedding ceremony without it.
Then look at how many '90s movies had HOP's "jump around" or "alright" by supergrass. Feed the whites enough liquor and guess what happens.
I don't think "bye bye bye" will be quite as enduring. Haven't had a couple request it yet this season. But it's still pretty impressive for a movie based on corpse raping fan service.
And how many more did leprechaun in the hood numbers?Never go against the kid @playahaitian
Look whose number 1 at the box office hehehe..like I said horror flicks and comedies the best flip
Box Office: ‘Weapons’ Impresses With $42.5 Million Debut, ‘Freakier Friday’ Starts Strong With $29 Million Opening
'Weapons' tops the box office with $42.5 million, 'Freakier Friday' opens strong with $29 million.
A STANDARD movie ticket is 20.49 at Union Square... not including fees.
25.99 for RPX
That's ridiculous.
25.99 for RPX
That's ridiculous.
Now you understand free.com existence and why many are going towards that light
If leprechaun in the hood is your template of lower budget good films than a serious conversation can’t be made with you
Another movie to look out for next month..is the long walk.. another under 40 million dollar film that probably make 8-9 figs.. just like I predicted weapons to do
Hey playa look who won the box office back to back weeks hehehe.. didn’t I say horror and comedies are the flip kings.. didn’t I say weapons was gonna be a 8-9 figs moneymaker..they continue to deny niggadamaus
Box Office: ‘Weapons’ Slays ‘Nobody 2’ With $25M, Sydney Sweeney’s ‘Americana’ Drops $500K Bomb
Disney's 'Freakier Friday' also beat the $9.3 million domestic opening of Bob Odenkirk's action-comedy 'Nobody' sequel with a second-weekend haul of $14.5 million.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Captain Tall Black Beard >>>>>
Hey playa look who won the box office back to back weeks hehehe.. didn’t I say horror and comedies are the flip kings.. didn’t I say weapons was gonna be a 8-9 figs moneymaker..they continue to deny niggadamaus
Box Office: ‘Weapons’ Slays ‘Nobody 2’ With $25M, Sydney Sweeney’s ‘Americana’ Drops $500K Bomb
Disney's 'Freakier Friday' also beat the $9.3 million domestic opening of Bob Odenkirk's action-comedy 'Nobody' sequel with a second-weekend haul of $14.5 million.
UNDEFEATED
I thought nobody 2 was gonna do much better it did good.
2 weeks in 120 million worldwide.. 71 million domestic 49 million international… made over 3 times its budget
If you want to talk about low budget horror films you can't just look at the winners. Because if every $6 million movie made 10 times its budget that's all Hollywood would make
Nope.. it’s been proven some like making big blockbusters.. they like making hundreds of millions… 100 million for 300 million or more… they don’t like lil flips on what they considered.
It’s like gambling some people would be happy to turn $10 into 300 bucks while others would rather turn $1000 into 2000… one person goes I’m happy with making 30 times my money , while another would look at making less than a thousand at the casino as a waist of time.. they would rather turn 1000 into 2000
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The casino is a good analogy because the odds of doubling your money are WAY higher than a 30x flip. Even then it's less than 50/50.
And that's my point. The last 70 years are littered with with shlock that bankrupted studios and ruined actor's careers. The only people making money off these films are Youtubers shit talking them for content.
That's assuming it even comes out. A lot of these budgets are so tight The smallest mistake can shut down production for good.
Dude there’s literally 2 films that were either called off or told to trim the budget cause directors been asking for to much… they wanted to make heat 2 and were asking for 200+ million, tom cruise wanted to make some deep sea movie and was asking for 275 million for the budget( this does not include the promotion budget).. see what I’m saying they been asking and wanting even more money for films than ever b4.. instead of making cheaper better films.. let’s just say last month I was around the set of Spider-Man 4 and they were literally tossing $500 checks to random people in some buildings and kinda off the street to be extras , doing less than 10 mins of work just acting like they running from chaos.. I personally know several people that got paid this.. this the type of money they working with now.. 20 yrs ago I remember getting paid $150 to do extra work and we had to do more than 10 mins of work.. there’s more money pumping out than b4
Because investors understand the power of franchise a lot better than they did 20 years ago.
And so do movie makers.
For instance, they know if Disney scraps a green lantern sequel in favor of a streaming series they're not doing it to make better art. They're milking the IP. So directors, production managers, actors, all the way down to extras do the same.
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