Florida Court Says Teen Not 'Mature' Enough For Abortion, So Must Bear Child

[Piff Henderson]

It's very relevant. Why? Because rape and incest keeps getting brought up. So, if we are going to have a genuine conversation, then we must rely on the data. For most people who are in favor of full abortion access, the default response to data is citing the extreme situations. "What if she was raped?" Or "What if she was involved in incest?" So, I say sure. The data does show that 1-2% of abortions are due to rape and incest. Now, lets talk about the other 97-98%.

I'm not actively attempting to stop any woman from killing her and the father's child. I just don't agree with it and would never support abortions without stringent limitations.

I'm not one of those people. I believe abortion should be available regardless of the reason.

My point is you don't know the circumstances of this girl's impregnation. Those statistics doesn't mean she wasn't raped. Statistics are pointless when discussing an individual case where the details are unknown except to the people who were involved.

As others have said, it's not your business either way. It's not anyone's business except hers to be honest. If she wants to end her pregnancy, regardless of how she got into that condition or her motivation for ending it, that's her prerogative.

 

[Non-StopJFK2TAB]

Stop asking questions and punch them in their face. These people aren’t interested in logic or reasoning.

 

[Tito_Jackson]

you keep bringing up this point. If it as rare as you keep stating, why not have the exceptions in ALL cases? it makes no sense to make it difficult/impossible to have a late(r) term abortion under those specific circumstances if the data shows that that those instances are rare. Correct?

I think that it would make it easier. I think it is ignorant for politicians to have an all or nothing policy. There has to be some common sense conversation regarding rape and incest.

In my opinion, all rape victims should be prescribed plan b. Additionally, all those who are found pregnant by rape or incest should be given until week 10 to decide whether to keep the child or not.

I'm not one of those people. I believe abortion should be available regardless of the reason.

So, if a woman lost her job and decided at one week before her delivery date that she wanted to have an abortion, you would be ok with this?

My point is you don't know the circumstances of this girl's impregnation.

Neither do you. So, people should stop with the "what if" game regarding her circumstances and deal primarily with the known facts. Remember, I didn't enter the rape "what if" into the conversation.

Those statistics doesn't mean she wasn't raped. Statistics are pointless when discussing an individual case where the details are unknown except to the people who were involved.

That's not how statistics work.

We use statistics to make educated assumptions regarding the likelihood of a situation and its possible outcomes. When we take about abortion, regardless if we know the specifics of the cases, we can speak generally regarding what the data shows. We know that in general, most people do not get abortions due to rape, incest, or health complications. Most people get abortions to avoid an inconvenience in their lives.

As others have said, it's not your business either way. It's not anyone's business except hers to be honest. If she wants to end her pregnancy, regardless of how she got into that condition or her motivation for ending it, that's her prerogative.

That's ignorance. That like saying, a person shouldn't have fought to end slavery if they never own slaves or were a slave themselves. A person shouldn't want to end drug abuse unless they are either buying, selling, or using. A person shouldn't care about immigration unless they are an immigrant or have been directly effected by an immigrant. A person should care about murder unless you have committed the murder or are the person being murdered.

I can care and have an opinion about an issue that I observe as a member of the society. We do it all the time with everything else. But, regarding the life of the unborn, why is there an exception to the rule?

Stop asking questions and punch them in their face. These people aren’t interested in logic or reasoning.

Sounds extreme.

 

[Piff Henderson]

So, if a woman lost her job and decided at one week before her delivery date that she wanted to have an abortion, you would be ok with this?

Yes. That should be obvious based on what I said. Anyway, scenarios like this never happen in reality. The vast majority of late-term abortions are done to preserve the mother's life not to end a pregnancy.

Neither do you. So, people should stop with the "what if" game regarding her circumstances and deal primarily with the known facts. Remember, I didn't enter the rape "what if" into the conversation.

You'd have a point if I used a "what if" argument. Instead, I used the it's-not-your-damn-business argument.

We use statistics to make educated assumptions regarding the likelihood of a situation and its possible outcomes. When we take about abortion, regardless if we know the specifics of the cases, we can speak generally regarding what the data shows. We know that in general, most people do not get abortions due to rape, incest, or health complications. Most people get abortions to avoid an inconvenience in their lives.

Again statistics are irrelevant in individual cases like this. How she most likely became pregnant isn't necessarily how she actually became pregnant.

That's ignorance. That like saying, a person shouldn't have fought to end slavery if they never own slaves or were a slave themselves. A person shouldn't want to end drug abuse unless they are either buying, selling, or using. A person shouldn't care about immigration unless they are an immigrant or have been directly effected by an immigrant. A person should care about murder unless you have committed the murder or are the person being murdered.

Abortion is nothing like any of the things you mentioned so it's a moot point. This is closer to the issue of allowing single people to use birth control.

You may have an opinion on that too but, again, it's none of your business.

I can care and have an opinion about an issue that I observe as a member of the society. We do it all the time with everything else. But, regarding the life of the unborn, why is there an exception to the rule?

Obviously. People are constantly weighing in on things that don't concern them.

 

[Tito_Jackson]

You'd have a point if I used a "what if" argument. Instead, I used the it's-not-your-damn-business argument.

You chimed in while I was addressing someone else who introduced the infamous "what if it was rape" scenario.

Again statistics are irrelevant in individual cases like this. How she most likely became pregnant isn't necessarily how she actually became pregnant.

Again, that is not how statistics work. She's 16 and pregnant. Those are the facts. She's a statistic and statistics can be used to discuss the situation.

Abortion is nothing like any of the things you mentioned so it's a moot point. This is closer to the issue of allowing single people to use birth control.

False. You are equating abortion to birth control. And that is far from what the abortion conversation is. Abortion is not birth control and should not be used as a form of birth control.

You may have an opinion on that too but, again, it's none of your business.

The same can be said to you.

You also have an opinion and it is none of your business.

Obviously. People are constantly weighing in on things that don't concern them.

It is our lack of concern that is contributing to the downward spiral of black communities. Your "mind your business" attitude is what feeds the "dont snitch" narrative.

Both are equally ignorant.

Yes. That should be obvious based on what I said.

At least you are honest. Killing a child that is one week from delivery is the same as killing a two year old.

It's scary that you and people like you have such a warped view of life.

I'm sure that even most pro-abortion folk on this board would agree that your stance is sick.

 

[cnc]

My G, if you have been around here long enough, you should know I NEVER quote numbers without having the source available. 97-98% percent off ALL abortions are for reasons other than rape or incest.

From the source:

In both surveys, 1% indicated that they had been victims of rape, and less than half a percent said they became pregnant as a result of incest.

Source: https://www.guttmacher.org/journals...ons-quantitative-and-qualitative-perspectives

My "misguided" opinion is based upon science and data.

While one source and 18 year old data can be cherry-picked to death, I WILL give you credit for providing a source.

Now that said, this young lady who you’ve pegged as getting pregnant because she was just bangin’ around, she could be of the 1% that this particular 18 year old study states reports that the reason for the abortion was due to rape. Your POV on her sexual habits are odds based speculation. The kid is a teenager and until fact are know, deserves multiple angles of the benefit of the doubt.

 

[ballscout1]

She was mature enough to make the baby, she's mature enough to have the baby. Abortion should not be used as birth control.

She is mature enough to be fucking raw though.

These are some dumb ass responses.

It doesn't take maturity to get fucked and in fact, if she was mature she most likely wouldn't have been fucking and if she was she wouldn't have gotten pregnant. Listening to some knucklehead mofokr talking about he'll pull out.

But it damn sure takes maturity to raise a child..Otherwise you just keep adding to the sad state of much of the youth who never had a chance

 

[Piff Henderson]

You chimed in while I was addressing someone else who introduced the infamous "what if it was rape" scenario.

That's how message boards work. I still didnt make that argument so the reply doesn't apply to me.

Again, that is not how statistics work. She's 16 and pregnant. Those are the facts. She's a statistic and statistics can be used to discuss the situation.

So, according to statistics she wasn't raped or taken advantage by an older man or male relative?

Statistics also show that comprehensive sex education reduces teen pregnancy but I don't see FL enacting that anytime soon.

False. You are equating abortion to birth control. And that is far from what the abortion conversation is. Abortion is not birth control and should not be used as a form of birth control.

This shows your ignorance about recent history. Abortion has always been linked to birth control. The Roe decision relied on precedent set by Griswold which was about, you guessed it, birth control.

The same can be said to you.

You also have an opinion and it is none of your business.

What's none of my business? I clearly said this girl's decision is no one's business except hers.

Considering I'm not trying to stop this girl from getting an abortion, what, exactly, "is none of my business"?

It is our lack of concern that is contributing to the downward spiral of black communities. Your "mind your business" attitude is what feeds the "dont snitch" narrative.

A difference of opinion does not mean a "lack of concern." If I lacked concern I wouldn't be in this thread engaging with you.

We're concerned about two different things but it's obvious neither of us "lack concern."

At least you are honest. Killing a child that is one week from delivery is the same as killing a two year old.

It's scary that you and people like you have such a warped view of life.

I'm sure that even most pro-abortion folk on this board would agree that your stance is sick.

You conveniently ignored the fact that most late-term abortions are done for the health of the mother. This is telling coming from a man who pulls statistics out his ass at the drop of hat.

And, no, a fetus isn't equivalent to a toddler. Anyone who believes such a thing is completely warped. Two-year-olds can speak, have memories, personalities, relationships, preferences, and opinions. They're not fetuses.

I'm sure any anti-abortion person on this board can agree your stance is sick and insane.

 

[Dr. Truth]

LOL at y’all debating that coon like you expect a legit response

 

[crossovernegro]

thanks for answering. I disagree about it actually being murder, but at least you gave an honest answer. ...and I do hope that those states do prosecute and imprison, because that will most certainly not work out the way they are thinking it will.

I believe that people have to abide by the laws of their state. If you knowingly break the law, you should be punished. Regarding murder, I do believe that the unborn child is a live person. Ending that life is murder. In my opinion, if a man was to punch his pregnant girlfriend in the stomach or engage in any action that leads to the termination of the pregnancy, he should be charged with murder. The same goes for a woman who engages in terminating the pregnancy in a state where abortions are illegal, whether at home or with a professional. I also believe that any professional that performs an abortion in a state where abortions are illegal should be charged and lose their license. This is excluding extreme circumstances.

There has to be more of an effort to normalize condoms and other forms of birth control. Also, fathers have to father. Young girls are being conditioned to use sex as a tool for advancement. While also being conditioned to believe that the number of sexual partners a woman has doesn't matter, when in fact it does.

 

[Tito_Jackson]

she could be of the 1% that this particular 18 year old study states reports that the reason for the abortion was due to rape.

Again, this is speculative. There is no information provided anywhere that suggests this. Therefore, we have to operate off of the information provided. She is 16, had sex, and got pregnant. Those are the facts.

But it damn sure takes maturity to raise a child.

You are correct. It absolutely takes maturity to raise a child.

Otherwise you just keep adding to the sad state of much of the youth who never had a chance

But killing children does not fix the underlying problems. It's only a grotesque bandaid.

That's how message boards work. I still didnt make that argument so the reply doesn't apply to me.

Yet you still reference rape below??

So, according to statistics she wasn't raped or taken advantage by an older man or male relative?

According to the data, there is a less than 2% likelihood of her pregnancy is from rape or an older male relative.

Also, according to the information provided, she was not raped or was involved in incest.

Statistics also show that comprehensive sex education reduces teen pregnancy but I don't see FL enacting that anytime soon.

Florida is stupid. I can not speak for what ignorant politicians do.

This shows your ignorance about recent history. Abortion has always been linked to birth control. The Roe decision relied on precedent set by Griswold which was about, you guessed it, birth control.

False, abortion has always been about eugenics. Margaret Sanger, the racist CAC that convinced black folk to accept abortions called black folk "weeds that needed to be exterminated."

What's none of my business? I clearly said this girl's decision is no one's business except hers.

If the government is paying for the abortion, then it is far from just her business.

Considering I'm not trying to stop this girl from getting an abortion, what, exactly, "is none of my business"?

I'm not trying to stop her either.

A difference of opinion does not mean a "lack of concern." If I lacked concern I wouldn't be in this thread engaging with you.

True

We're concerned about two different things but it's obvious neither of us "lack concern."

True

You conveniently ignored the fact that most late-term abortions are done for the health of the mother. This is telling coming from a man who pulls statistics out his ass at the drop of hat.

The number of late term abortions was not the question. You stated that you are in favor of abortions for ANY reason. I was simply seeing where you drew the line. And your response was a woman should be able to kill the baby whenever she wanted even if it is one week from the due date. You said it's her decision regardless of the reason or when.

And, no, a fetus isn't equivalent to a toddler. Anyone who believes such a thing is completely warped. Two-year-olds can speak, have memories, personalities, relationships, preferences, and opinions. They're not fetuses.

Your logic is flawed. There are full grown adults that can not speak, lack memories, personalities, relationships, preferences, and opinions. So, are they less human?

A fetus that is one week from birth is no different than a fetus as it is being born and an infant that was born 1 minute ago. You are killing a person. And if you are ok with killing a baby that is one week from birth, you are ok with killing a 1 or 2 year old. Why stop there? Why not kill teenagers?

LOL at y’all debating that coon like you expect a legit response

Shut yo lame ass up. Grown folk are talking.

thanks for answering. I disagree about it actually being murder, but at least you gave an honest answer. ...and I do hope that those states do prosecute and imprison, because that will most certainly not work out the way they are thinking it will.

This is possible.

 

[ballscout1]

But killing children does not fix the underlying problems. It's only a grotesque bandaid.

We have been through this before.

They aren't children. (yet)

and as i said before unless the fetus can survive outside the womb it isn't a baby.

I also showed you proof the last time you were on this that even at 24-25 weeks with all the modern medical marvels the odds of surviving are minimal...

And being born into the system is a slow killing.

Black babies don't get adopted.

The adoption process makes it almost impossible for those who would adopt a black baby.

I used to read the classifieds almost every day, and what they want are white newborns...

 

[D24OHA]

Not mature enough for an abortion but mature enough to raise a damn kid for the rest of their lives?!!

REALLY?!

 

[Da Backshot Champ]

It use to be an alright state, but it's the Mecca for old racist East Coast Cacs to retire.

LOL, I know at least 20 families who moved out of NYC the last 10 years and only one went to Florida. To hear motherfuckers down there NYers are trying to take over, but that is some honkey shit. Blacks I know moves to NC, GA, and VA. All the Hispanice moved to upstate, NJ or CT.

 

[Piff Henderson]

Yet you still reference rape below??

That was a point about the limitations of statistics. Personally, I believe she should have access to abortion regardless of if she was raped or not.

According to the data, there is a less than 2% likelihood of her pregnancy is from rape or an older male relative.

Irrelevant in a case-by-case basis.

Also, according to the information provided, she was not raped or was involved in incest.

I'll have to read it again because I don't recall the article giving the circumstances surrounding her impregnation.

Florida is stupid. I can not speak for what ignorant politicians do.

Except you agree with them on the abortion issue.

False, abortion has always been about eugenics. Margaret Sanger, the racist CAC that convinced black folk to accept abortions called black folk "weeds that needed to be exterminated."

Bullshit. Abortion has been practiced since antiquity. Eugenics dates to the late 19th Century at the earliest. I'm not letting you get away with that misinformation.

And to repeat: abortion has always been linked to birth control.

If the government is paying for the abortion, then it is far from just her business.

Then you should concern yourself with government funding for abortion. Abortion that isn't paid for by the government shouldn't be your business, right?

I'm not trying to stop her either.

Now, you're not being honest. You have no power to stop her but you would stop her if you could.

The number of late term abortions was not the question. You stated that you are in favor of abortions for ANY reason. I was simply seeing where you drew the line. And your response was a woman should be able to kill the baby whenever she wanted even if it is one week from the due date. You said it's her decision regardless of the reason or when.

The fact that your hypothetical had to be so extreme shows that scenarios like statistically (I use them too) never happen.

So, if you're going to use an extreme hypothetical, I'll give you an "extreme" answer. I would support her decision to the end the pregnancy a week from the due date.

Your logic is flawed. There are full grown adults that can not speak, lack memories, personalities, relationships, preferences, and opinions. So, are they less human?

Humans? Sure. Are they people? That's debatable. What you're describing is essentially a person in a vegetative state. I, personally, believe euthanasia should be an option for people in this condition. The decision being left to their next of kin.

A fetus that is one week from birth is no different than a fetus as it is being born and an infant that was born 1 minute ago. You are killing a person. And if you are ok with killing a baby that is one week from birth, you are ok with killing a 1 or 2 year old. Why stop there? Why not kill teenagers?

I disagree with your premise that a fetus is equivalent to a toddler or a teenager. I'm not OK with killing infants, children, teens, or adults because I don't advocate murder.

 

[christop]

 

[praetor]

 

[crossovernegro]

If they could get a planB ban passed, they would.


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