Haitian President Jovenel Moise has been assassinated
- Thread starter Duece
- Start date
yes
Yes and No.
He is the Haitian equivalent of Saddam Hussein and Ghaddafi. Many disliked him until he was gone and then regretted his firm leadership. He was effective and Haiti thrived under his rule.
He was able to lift Haiti out of disarray and poverty thru really fucked up means. He established a guerrilla police unit called "tonton macoutes" that hacked his enemies/opposition to death. He drove a large group of the light skin ruling class out of Haiti. He brought order and economic stability thru nefarious actions.
Democracy does not work in Haiti. What works was/is a benign tyrant who forces citizens to follow the law and order--and sadly, it worked.
Many but not all Haitians today talk about him as a savior despite what the US and the western media portrays.
François Duvalier - Wikipedia
Read the part "Consolidation and Power"
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In my book, he was great. I was very young in those days, but I ready remember there was law and order. The Haitian dollar was 1-1 against the U.S. He was the first leader to get Haiti recognized around the world. Drove alot of white people/ mixed raced away from power so the media will always bash him. I would equate him as our Castro.
He put the black Haitian people before anybody else which is what your suppose to do!. Your People come first.
Latin America Unrest Forces Biden to Confront Challenges to Democracy Close to Home
U.S. influence began waning in the region over the past decade, as successive administrations turned toward fighting terrorism in the Middle East.
Turmoil in Latin America is forcing the Biden administration to focus on the region more broadly after years of indifference from previous administrations.Credit...Sarahbeth Maney/The New York Times
By Lara Jakes
July 12, 2021Updated 9:04 p.m. ET
WASHINGTON — President Biden took office with bold warnings for Russia and China about human rights as he pressed democracies around the world to stand up against autocracy. But this week, he is facing a string of similar challenges in America’s neighborhood.
On Monday, a day after huge protests across Cuba, Mr. Biden accused officials there of “enriching themselves” instead of protecting people from the coronavirus pandemic, repression and economic suffering.
An hour later, the State Department announced it was revoking visas that had allowed 100 Nicaraguan politicians, judges and their family members to travel to the United States, as punishment for undermining democracy, suppressing peaceful protests or abusing human rights.
By early afternoon, Mr. Biden refocused on Haiti, urging its political leaders to “come together for the good of their country,” less than a week after President Jovenel Moïse was assassinated in his bed.
“The United States stands ready to continue to provide assistance,” Mr. Biden told reporters at the White House. He promised more details on Haiti and Cuba later: “Stay tuned,” he said.
The turmoil presents a potential crisis closer to home, with a possible exodus of Haitians as the Biden administration contends with a surge of migrants at the southwestern border. It is also forcing the White House to focus on the region more broadly after years of indifference — or limited attention — from previous Republican and Democratic administrations.
“The clear trend line is that we’ve been very worried about democratic institutions over time,” Patrick Ventrell, the State Department’s director of Central American policy, said on Monday. He estimated that more than half of the seven countries in Central America were grappling with challenges to freely elected systems of government.
But U.S. influence began waning in the region over the past decade, as it turned toward fighting terrorism in the Middle East and as Russia and especially China moved in to finance projects and offer political support and other incentives.
Ryan C. Berg, a senior fellow and scholar in the Americas program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, said that China was now the top trading partner for at least eight Latin American nations, and that 19 countries in the region were participating in Beijing’s extensive infrastructure and investment project, known as the Belt and Road Initiative.
The United States “took Latin America for granted for decades as a source of stability and strength,” Mr. Berg said.
“We forgot to build on these inchoate democratic movements that would be able to channel some of this anger that we are seeing now, in terms of uprisings, in terms of being able to combat corruption, in terms of being able to offer people real socioeconomic goods,” he said. “We don’t recognize the region in the same way that we used to.”
Image
Haitians gathered at the U.S. Embassy in Tabarre, Haiti, on Saturday to ask for asylum after the assassination of President Jovenel Moïse last week.Credit...Valerie Baeriswyl/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
A decade ago, the United States did not see any “urgent issues” percolating across Latin America and the Caribbean, according to a Brookings Institution analysis.
Although the influx of migrants from the region and crime and drug trafficking close to the border remained concerns, U.S. officials relied on Latin American governments to contain them. The analysis also noted a regional commitment to democracy and other human rights that it described as “noteworthy, in spite of uneven practice.”
As vice president during the Obama administration, Mr. Biden oversaw a policy that in 2015 restored full diplomatic relations with Cuba for the first time in more than a half-century. Senior Republicans and some Democrats in Congress quickly denounced the move, and President Donald J. Trump overturned it in 2017, saying the attempt at diplomacy empowered Cuba’s communist government and enriched its repressive military. In the final days of the Trump administration, Cuba was re-designated as a state sponsor of terrorism.
By 2018, elections in Venezuela that were widely believed to be rigged were a stark reminder of how democratic institutions in the region had crumbled.
The Trump administration issued a raft of economic sanctions against President Nicolás Maduro and his advisers, and sought to turn Venezuelans against him by backing Juan Guaidó, then the leader of the country’s Parliament, as their rightful president.
Venezuela, once one of South America’s most prosperous countries, is now one of its poorest, gutted by corruption and sanctions that caused its lucrative oil industry to decay. Mr. Maduro remains in power, with the help of Russian and Cuban backing.
An estimated four million refugees have fled Venezuela since then, in one of the world’s worst humanitarian catastrophes. Nearly half of them are in neighboring Colombia, which this spring grappled with its own domestic unrest, as protesters angry over national taxes and coronavirus fatigue clashed with security forces.
In an interview in May, President Iván Duque Márquez of Colombia said he did not doubt that the United States would continue to support his country, despite human rights concerns about his government’s tactics.
“We have to be all honest and put her hands on our hearts for a certain moment,” Mr. Duque told reporters for The New York Times. “We’re living in very complicated times around the world. We have seen high levels of political polarization. You’re living it in the United States. And you know that when you combine polarization with social media and opinions that sometimes are not based on thorough understanding, they can also generate violence.”
Other Latin American autocrats have followed Mr. Maduro’s lead.
In Nicaragua, President Daniel Ortega has imposed a nationwide crackdown against the news media and civil society before elections in November, in which he will seek a fourth term. On the sidelines of a meeting of Central American foreign ministers last month, Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken discreetly urged Nicaragua’s top diplomat to ensure a free and fair vote.
The next day, Mr. Ortega’s government detained one of his highest-profile political opponents.
U.S. officials later insisted it was important for the Biden administration to put Nicaragua and other Latin American countries on notice of the United States’ growing concern about challenges to democracy. Mr. Ventrell, the State Department official, said the aggression by Mr. Ortega — a former revolutionary and long a thorn in the side of the United States — was proof of how weak his support was among Nicaraguan voters.
But the Biden administration is all too aware of the delicate nature of democracy in the region.
“Let’s be honest: Democracies are fragile things. I fully acknowledge that,” Samantha Power, the administrator of the United States Agency for International Development, said in at a speech last month at Central American University in San Salvador.
Attacks on judges, journalists, election officials and other institutions in the United States underscored that an assault on freedoms and civil liberties could happen anywhere, she said.
That is why, Ms. Power said, “it is so important to stand up against corruption, to stand up against autocratic behavior wherever it occurs — because these actions can quickly grow to threaten stability, to threaten democracy, to threaten prosperity.”
U.S. influence began waning in the region over the past decade, as successive administrations turned toward fighting terrorism in the Middle East.
Turmoil in Latin America is forcing the Biden administration to focus on the region more broadly after years of indifference from previous administrations.Credit...Sarahbeth Maney/The New York Times
By Lara Jakes
July 12, 2021Updated 9:04 p.m. ET
WASHINGTON — President Biden took office with bold warnings for Russia and China about human rights as he pressed democracies around the world to stand up against autocracy. But this week, he is facing a string of similar challenges in America’s neighborhood.
On Monday, a day after huge protests across Cuba, Mr. Biden accused officials there of “enriching themselves” instead of protecting people from the coronavirus pandemic, repression and economic suffering.
An hour later, the State Department announced it was revoking visas that had allowed 100 Nicaraguan politicians, judges and their family members to travel to the United States, as punishment for undermining democracy, suppressing peaceful protests or abusing human rights.
By early afternoon, Mr. Biden refocused on Haiti, urging its political leaders to “come together for the good of their country,” less than a week after President Jovenel Moïse was assassinated in his bed.
“The United States stands ready to continue to provide assistance,” Mr. Biden told reporters at the White House. He promised more details on Haiti and Cuba later: “Stay tuned,” he said.
The turmoil presents a potential crisis closer to home, with a possible exodus of Haitians as the Biden administration contends with a surge of migrants at the southwestern border. It is also forcing the White House to focus on the region more broadly after years of indifference — or limited attention — from previous Republican and Democratic administrations.
“The clear trend line is that we’ve been very worried about democratic institutions over time,” Patrick Ventrell, the State Department’s director of Central American policy, said on Monday. He estimated that more than half of the seven countries in Central America were grappling with challenges to freely elected systems of government.
But U.S. influence began waning in the region over the past decade, as it turned toward fighting terrorism in the Middle East and as Russia and especially China moved in to finance projects and offer political support and other incentives.
Ryan C. Berg, a senior fellow and scholar in the Americas program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, said that China was now the top trading partner for at least eight Latin American nations, and that 19 countries in the region were participating in Beijing’s extensive infrastructure and investment project, known as the Belt and Road Initiative.
The United States “took Latin America for granted for decades as a source of stability and strength,” Mr. Berg said.
“We forgot to build on these inchoate democratic movements that would be able to channel some of this anger that we are seeing now, in terms of uprisings, in terms of being able to combat corruption, in terms of being able to offer people real socioeconomic goods,” he said. “We don’t recognize the region in the same way that we used to.”
Image
Haitians gathered at the U.S. Embassy in Tabarre, Haiti, on Saturday to ask for asylum after the assassination of President Jovenel Moïse last week.Credit...Valerie Baeriswyl/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
A decade ago, the United States did not see any “urgent issues” percolating across Latin America and the Caribbean, according to a Brookings Institution analysis.
Although the influx of migrants from the region and crime and drug trafficking close to the border remained concerns, U.S. officials relied on Latin American governments to contain them. The analysis also noted a regional commitment to democracy and other human rights that it described as “noteworthy, in spite of uneven practice.”
As vice president during the Obama administration, Mr. Biden oversaw a policy that in 2015 restored full diplomatic relations with Cuba for the first time in more than a half-century. Senior Republicans and some Democrats in Congress quickly denounced the move, and President Donald J. Trump overturned it in 2017, saying the attempt at diplomacy empowered Cuba’s communist government and enriched its repressive military. In the final days of the Trump administration, Cuba was re-designated as a state sponsor of terrorism.
By 2018, elections in Venezuela that were widely believed to be rigged were a stark reminder of how democratic institutions in the region had crumbled.
The Trump administration issued a raft of economic sanctions against President Nicolás Maduro and his advisers, and sought to turn Venezuelans against him by backing Juan Guaidó, then the leader of the country’s Parliament, as their rightful president.
Venezuela, once one of South America’s most prosperous countries, is now one of its poorest, gutted by corruption and sanctions that caused its lucrative oil industry to decay. Mr. Maduro remains in power, with the help of Russian and Cuban backing.
An estimated four million refugees have fled Venezuela since then, in one of the world’s worst humanitarian catastrophes. Nearly half of them are in neighboring Colombia, which this spring grappled with its own domestic unrest, as protesters angry over national taxes and coronavirus fatigue clashed with security forces.
In an interview in May, President Iván Duque Márquez of Colombia said he did not doubt that the United States would continue to support his country, despite human rights concerns about his government’s tactics.
“We have to be all honest and put her hands on our hearts for a certain moment,” Mr. Duque told reporters for The New York Times. “We’re living in very complicated times around the world. We have seen high levels of political polarization. You’re living it in the United States. And you know that when you combine polarization with social media and opinions that sometimes are not based on thorough understanding, they can also generate violence.”
Other Latin American autocrats have followed Mr. Maduro’s lead.
In Nicaragua, President Daniel Ortega has imposed a nationwide crackdown against the news media and civil society before elections in November, in which he will seek a fourth term. On the sidelines of a meeting of Central American foreign ministers last month, Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken discreetly urged Nicaragua’s top diplomat to ensure a free and fair vote.
The next day, Mr. Ortega’s government detained one of his highest-profile political opponents.
U.S. officials later insisted it was important for the Biden administration to put Nicaragua and other Latin American countries on notice of the United States’ growing concern about challenges to democracy. Mr. Ventrell, the State Department official, said the aggression by Mr. Ortega — a former revolutionary and long a thorn in the side of the United States — was proof of how weak his support was among Nicaraguan voters.
But the Biden administration is all too aware of the delicate nature of democracy in the region.
“Let’s be honest: Democracies are fragile things. I fully acknowledge that,” Samantha Power, the administrator of the United States Agency for International Development, said in at a speech last month at Central American University in San Salvador.
Attacks on judges, journalists, election officials and other institutions in the United States underscored that an assault on freedoms and civil liberties could happen anywhere, she said.
That is why, Ms. Power said, “it is so important to stand up against corruption, to stand up against autocratic behavior wherever it occurs — because these actions can quickly grow to threaten stability, to threaten democracy, to threaten prosperity.”
This is what I thought....thanks for the knowledge.. brah
Not a a problem brah. He ruled with an ironed fist, not to be fucked with, talked bad about him or the government, your ass would in prison that same day. The problem was he came in two power at 57 years old, and was a doctor. He came into power so old, he died in the mid 80s and his son took over but he was only 18 yrs old when the father died. That's when everything went crazy. Just imagine any 18 yr having all that power, you couldn't tell him shit, so the country suffered. The country is still suffering from some the shit the son did. He walked away with a very large sum when he was exiled.
My experience with Haitians has primarily been in the Boston area.
They are generally rude as hell, and have ZERO respect for African Americans.
It took a week before I went back to the apt of the friend I was visiting, and shaking my head, related
that everyone in the area I encountered, Guatemalans, Brazilians, Ecuadorians, etc., were friendly and cool as hell...
except the Haitians.
They seemed to take great pleasure in letting me know what they though about black people in the USA. His words: "So, you finally figured it out. They are shoe-leather black, yet look at you as a n#gga."
Just food for thought.
They are generally rude as hell, and have ZERO respect for African Americans.
It took a week before I went back to the apt of the friend I was visiting, and shaking my head, related
that everyone in the area I encountered, Guatemalans, Brazilians, Ecuadorians, etc., were friendly and cool as hell...
except the Haitians.
They seemed to take great pleasure in letting me know what they though about black people in the USA. His words: "So, you finally figured it out. They are shoe-leather black, yet look at you as a n#gga."
Just food for thought.
I met some cool Haitians. You do have some that think are some how better then you. But at the end of the day they come from a banana boat and there country is a shithole so there the last group of people to look down on someone.
It’s kinda like talking shit about Brazilians but you live in Brazil.
Something's off about this, Why were they let in after shouting they were DEA. How did they manage to assassinate him and leave the compound without a gunfight and only to be stopped by the road block? where were all his bodyguards and people around the compound. This all sounds like an inside job.
There are stupid and dumb people from any culture including Haitians. You just have to dismiss the dumb ones you encounter. I rarely deal with white people, so the number of times I've heard the phrase "stupid Haitian" coming up in South Florida and that's from black Americans, I can't count. We hate our own more than the enemy sometimes. Stupid shit
This is true.
I brought it up only because it is common for African Americans to feel kinship with others who hail from Africa.
Unfortunately, the feeling is very often NOT mutual, on the contrary, it is generally the opposite.
I get it. Having gone through school in the U.S., there's a different understanding you get about the country and the people. Older black people that migrate here don't get that opportunity. A lot of them will look at black americans as squandering the opportunities they have in this country while not knowing how deep this racism shit goes and have gone. That's really where it starts with some of that bs. And with many of them being so under-educated they fall for all the propaganda white media tosses up. Just a thought.
Haitian Bostonians are super cool with African Americans.
The culture is intermixed and we move collectively.
Maybe it's you.
This story sounds like bullshit.
I fuck with the Haitian community hard...fuck Cacs...and what they thank...brah
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Question for the board though, is this what we need for Blacks in America with all these knuckleheads out in the street? Or do we just need the government to pass commonsense laws for guns and stop being so fucking racist at every fucking opportunity? But at the end of the day, this guy seemed to have got folks in order by showing his people something they probably never seen before..blood and gore. Niggas got straight real quick I bet.
...MY short answer is yes.
Riff-raffs continue to oppose and violate established laws because the punishments for their societal infractions are not severe enough to deter uncivilized behavior. Leaders who put the development of their nation or people first must be grounded in unwavering strength and conviction. If that means eradicating undesirables via imprisonment or harsher means, then so be it. Many humans do not have the ability to properly govern themselves when given the opportunity. They function best under laws created for them to follow. People routinely surrender their agency and autonomy in favor of guidance and leadership if it proves beneficial to their living condition or progressive to the society at large.
several south american flags were created off of Haitis !! this is a much swept under the rug flag !! 100%
my father taught me this as a kid ! its why i always have deep love for my haitian fam despite all the hate they get, n closely know some of the ruling class fam i grew up with in NY ! why history n teching it is so important , hence deep disappointment in the foreign south american fall guy mercenaries they caught
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yes they do!
boom!! people love to manufacture narrative to further their agenda and we all know who they are ! like that came out of nowhere , no one asked but yet they volunteer their bs, here we are all discussing our fellow black folks plight n here they come with their (rightwing styled )manufactured narrative to divert us from the discussion at hand !
doesnt nuance & understanding go both ways or is it a one way street ? where ppl can just blanket a whole immigrant community without nuance or context and go on to manufacture a whole narrative
noticed how they conveniently skipped over ur experience of "dumb haitian" to further the agenda of "they hate us "? (without proof, context or understanding ) so they can push their agenda of "we must hate immigrants to feel better about ourselves"
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One of my buddies is Haitian, met his mom, brother, treated me like family. Mama even had a little crush on me and shit. I couldnt comprehend hate coming from someone from there. Wouldn't make sense. Never heard anyone else express this sentiment. Strange.
I have family in Boston and they mixed with AA community like it was one and the same.
people need to manufacture narratives to push their agenda , is every hatian a a saint ? is every AA a saint ? is every black immigrant down to 3-5generations a saint ? No !!we know this but here we are trying to debunk something thats manufactured that doesnt even need a discussion..
Props your father man. The history is so rich man it's crazy.several south american flags were created off of Haitis !! this is a much swept under the rug flag !! 100%
my father taught me this as a kid ! its why i always have deep love for my haitian fam despite all the hate they get, n closely know some of the ruling class fam i grew up with in NY ! why history n teching it is so important , hence deep disappointment in the foreign south american fall guy mercenaries they caught
Very true.
The fact that you do not like my narrative does not mean it was manufactured.
I grew up in a community that is more than 85% black. Chaldeans (Catholic Arabs, primarily from Iraq)
control their food supply to this day, as they own ALL of the convenience stores ( we call them party stores where
I come from) and they have zero respect for black people.
Until very recently, it was not uncommon to walk into their stores and see porn CD covers in the window for sale, uncensored,
where black children buy candy, pop, and other items. Selling expired meat was also not uncommon, nor was selling cigarettes and alcohol to minors. Who cares? They are only black people, after all. This is particularly evil when
one considers that many people in the neighborhoods they "serve" do not have reliable transportation; they have limited options when it comes to buying food.
Again, as a group, it is clear to anyone paying attention that they have little regard for black people.
That being said, it is TO THIS DAY, not uncommon to hear black people in the neighborhood refer to these merchants
as "mamma" and "pops". "My nigga", "dog" and other euphemisms are typically used when addressing black people,yet 19 year old WHITE students are referred to as "sir".
So, what is the point?
Not some conspiracy to turn black people against one another.
The point is that, instead of reaching out and demanding/assuming/fantasizing about kinship with
peoples who originated in Africa, why not assert oneself as the standard, the one who demands respect
and is respected? Why not be proud of being African American? Why is that not enough? Why must you seek
validation from other black people who do not even consider your deluded ass black?
You are sniffing around, trying to be like by people who do not even respect you.
THIS is why other races and nationalities regard you as nothing more than clowns with the potential for violence.
What about this behavior is deserving of respect?
My response to this lack of respect afforded African Americans is this: were it not
for the ancestors of those same African Americans, Haitians, Nigerians, Ghanaians, etc., would not be able
to bring their black asses over here to talk shit.
It is called dignity. Something that the Jamaican community still has.
I lived in a row house owned by a very cool Haitian. He was Americanized to a degree, and clearly of the
upper classes in Haiti, which explains why he was able to afford to study, live and work here. But that was in DC.
I made no attempt to denigrate an entire nationality. I simply related my experience.
Nobody asked, but nobody asked YOU for a response either. I will leave that alone...
So, you can happily keep pretending I am somehow fixated on undermining you.
You sound just like and old friend who lived in DC, who was FOREVER kissing Ethiopian ass.
Even when they made it clear he was never regarded and "one" with them, he kept up his fantasy
of Pan Africanism.
The fact is, if you are African American, you likely have so much Native and European blood that
Africans do NOT consider you African.
But keep up your fantasy if you like. This conversation will be had again at some point, perhaps
long after we are all dead.
And nothing will have changed.
So...go ahead, let the "cac" '"cracka" "must be republican" bullshit fly. It affects me not.
I know who I am, and retain my sense of dignity. Can you say the same?
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Same, bruh.
The black community up here runs tight.
Even Nigerians stay on code. lol