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Spectrum

Elite Poster
BGOL Investor
You just arguing to argue. You literally jumping from one point to the next. You argue that Wade only got rings one minute because he had dominant players

Yeah. He's changing the argument and needling on "washed". His argument was wade didn't win without other dominant players. Shaq was still a good player but nowhere near dominant at that point
 

xxironxx

PhD in Trollin
BGOL Investor
You just arguing to argue. You literally jumping from one point to the next. You argue that Wade only got rings one minute because he had dominant players around him but then not acknowledging Giannis doesn't have that around him....I just hope you looking at this from a realistic perspective and not because Skip Bayless dumb ass said it....You don't have to have a jump shot to be a superstar....
No nigga you're all over the place. Giannis is pose to be that dominant presence 4 his team
 

dtownsfinest

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
These are Shaq's own words. I also said I'm speaking "relative terms". He was "washed" for Shaq. That's still a good player. But you framed it was Wade only won with dominant players. Shaq wasn't dominant when he played with Wade.

"me and D. Wade had a conversation because I didn’t have my Shaq-like Finals. I think that was the beginning of my decline, but it was ok because I still had other guys that were in the same position…[and] we had one guy that could put it all together. "

" What are yall going to do?’ And finally, I told D. Wade, ‘Don’t be nice. Don’t be nice. At this point, I’m going to be a role player. Do it.’"
Exactly. 20 and 10 for Deandre Ayton aight.....20 and 10 for a dude who use to put up 30 points a game.....Shaq's production and minutes got worse and worse ever since that Finals run with Wade....
 

Spectrum

Elite Poster
BGOL Investor
You trippin. Bron ain't past his prime?

Pre-injury this dude didn't look like he lost a step to me. I mean it sounds wild saying that about someone in their18th season. He's not prime but I feel like he's still on his APEX. He's a mutant. He has to conserve his legs and obviously doesn't have the energy he had 10 years ago, but there isn't any significantly decline in his game.
 

dtownsfinest

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
Yeah. He's changing the argument and needling on "washed". His argument was wade didn't win without other dominant players. Shaq was still a good player but nowhere near dominant at that point
Right...whether you feel he was past his prime or washed we can argue on the wording but he knows damn well that Shaq was not dominant at that point....he done talked himself into circles he going against his own points now....
 

xxironxx

PhD in Trollin
BGOL Investor
Pre-injury this dude didn't look like he lost a step to me. I mean it sounds wild saying that about someone in their18th season. He's not prime but I feel like he's still on his APEX. He's a mutant. He has to conserve his legs and obviously doesn't have the energy he had 10 years ago, but there isn't any significantly decline in his game.
Oh I feel you. But to say Bron in his prime still is asinine
 

Spectrum

Elite Poster
BGOL Investor
Exactly. 20 and 10 for Deandre Ayton aight.....20 and 10 for a dude who use to put up 30 points a game.....Shaq's production and minutes got worse and worse ever since that Finals run with Wade....

It's really not an argument. Shaq himself said then and has since said in several interviews that he had significantly declined as a player by 2006 and that was the start of a rapid fall off.

I bet Shaq would have lasted longer had he been in this era with all the sports science and how guys now understand the importance of playing at a lower weight.. but maybe not, he always said that basketball wasn't his entire life so he wasn't worried about it during the offseason.
 

dtownsfinest

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
You trippin. Bron ain't past his prime?

He's still in his prime...the only way I'd say he's at the end of his prime is because of his age and Father Time is undefeated...


So let me get this straight....Shaq put up 13 points and 10 rebounds in the finals....and you claimed he was "Dominant"....Lebron almost averages a triple double.....25 points 7 boards and 7 assists....and he past his prime? Man get your shit together fam. :lol:
 

dtownsfinest

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
Like they use to say about Kevin Love and Andre Drummond. Empty stats
Empty stats because they bitch asses was at home this time of the year...it aint' empty stats in the playoffs and btw Andre Drummond could only dream of scoring 34 points consistently.....
 

xxironxx

PhD in Trollin
BGOL Investor
Empty stats because they bitch asses was at home this time of the year...it aint' empty stats in the playoffs and btw Andre Drummond could only dream of scoring 34 points consistently.....
I got it fam. You ride that Giannis wave. Let's see where it takes you.
 

Spectrum

Elite Poster
BGOL Investor
Oh I feel you. But to say Bron in his prime still is asinine

I can't really call it 'prime'. I'm not sure what to call it though. He's not really in a decline IMO beyond being more susceptible to injury. He's still easily top 5 in the NBA and his production is outrageous.

Look at his numbers from 2015 in Cleveland and then this season. They don't look that much different besides the injuries

2015: 25.3 points 7.4 rebounds. 6.8 assists per game
2021: 25.0 points 7.7 rebounds. 7.8 assists per game

he might not be "prime" but he's still giving you "prime" production. The dude's a mutant.
 

xxironxx

PhD in Trollin
BGOL Investor
I can't really call it 'prime'. I'm not sure what to call it though. He's not really in a decline IMO beyond being more susceptible to injury. He's still easily top 5 in the NBA and his production is outrageous.

Look at his numbers from 2015 in Cleveland and then this season. They don't look that much different besides the injuries

2015: 25.3 points 7.4 rebounds. 6.8 assists per game
2021: 25.0 points 7.7 rebounds. 7.8 assists per game

he might not be "prime" but he's still giving you "prime" production. The dude's a mutant.
Oh no doubt. I'm not trying to say he's fell off at all. It's just no way we're saying a nigga in year 18 still in his prime. That's all. Was my leading candidate 4 mvp pre injury
 

4 Dimensional

Rising Star
Platinum Member
These are Shaq's own words. I also said I'm speaking "relative terms". He was "washed" for Shaq. That's still a good player. But you framed it was Wade only won with dominant players. Shaq wasn't dominant when he played with Wade.

"me and D. Wade had a conversation because I didn’t have my Shaq-like Finals. I think that was the beginning of my decline, but it was ok because I still had other guys that were in the same position…[and] we had one guy that could put it all together. "

" What are yall going to do?’ And finally, I told D. Wade, ‘Don’t be nice. Don’t be nice. At this point, I’m going to be a role player. Do it.’"

i read that in Shaq’s voice
 

Spectrum

Elite Poster
BGOL Investor
t's just no way we're saying a nigga in year 18 still in his prime. That's all.

Maybe he still is though? I'm not sure. Maybe he's just THAT damn good and keeps himself in that great of shape and his game has evolved that much. I thought his "physical prime" was when he was with the Heat. His motor was just ridiculous. But the game isn't just about physicality. He doesn't have the legs, but I feel he still has the same type of impact on games (in a different way though) that he had 10 years ago. So maybe he's not "prime" physically but you're getting "prime production".

If he plays for two more years and puts up similar stats...it's like this dude's entire 20 year career is just elite basketball from start to finish... makes no sense.
 

xxironxx

PhD in Trollin
BGOL Investor
Maybe he still is though? I'm not sure. Maybe he's just THAT damn good and keeps himself in that great of shape and his game has evolved that much. I thought his "physical prime" was when he was with the Heat. His motor was just ridiculous. But the game isn't just about physicality. He doesn't have the legs, but I feel he still has the same type of impact on games (in a different way though) that he had 10 years ago. So maybe he's not "prime" physically but you're getting "prime production".
If he doesn't have the legs you can't then say he's still in his prime. But yes he definitely gives "prime production" you cannot deny that
 

KingTaharqa

Greatest Of All Time
BGOL Investor
Oh no doubt. I'm not trying to say he's fell off at all. It's just no way we're saying a nigga in year 18 still in his prime. That's all. Was my leading candidate 4 mvp pre injury

This is old man Bron which is still the best in the league, with the highest expectations, and the still the biggest draw to the sport.

When KD or any of these dudes becomes the biggest draw I'll crown them the best. When Magic was the best he was the biggest draw, when Bird was the best he was the biggest draw, Jordan was the biggest draw when he was the best, Kobe, etc. You cant be legit the best player in the game with another player and or players having a bigger spotlight than you.
 

Spectrum

Elite Poster
BGOL Investor
If he doesn't have the legs you can't then say he's still in his prime. But yes he definitely gives "prime production" you cannot deny that

There are some older players that weren't the horses they were in their 20s that still played their best ball and were in their prime later in their career.

There is a lot that goes into what is considered "prime" outside of just pure physical shape.

Not really arguing with you just commenting.. but figuring out Lebron's "peak" is a weird game to play. His arc is just "different".
 

KingTaharqa

Greatest Of All Time
BGOL Investor
Wtf are yall talking about wade was never as good as 06 finals?
He won the scoring title and multiple all nba after that

Post a series he won where he played that well ever again. He lives off 1 Finals and being LGBT friendly.

He was compared to and likened to Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan when he teamed up with LeBron. :smh:
 

jasonblacc

Rising Star
Registered
Wtf are yall talking about wade was never as good as 06 finals?
He won the scoring title and multiple all nba after that

As good well maybe. My argument is he gets passes that Melo and Cp3 don’t get when it comes to winning but he’s never gotten to an ECF without a dominate player beside him. Be it Shaq or Lebron. Now go and argue Shaq was past his prime but the year before he should’ve won the MVP. While maybe not prime Shaq he was still Shaq that’s why he should’ve won the MVP the year before.
 

xxironxx

PhD in Trollin
BGOL Investor
There are some older players that weren't the horses they were in their 20s that still played their best ball and were in their prime later in their career.

There is a lot that goes into what is considered "prime" outside of just pure physical shape.

Not really arguing with you just commenting.. but figuring out Lebron's "peak" is a weird game to play. His arc is just "different".
No doubt. No arguing here. Think we're both in agreement that Bron ain't like anybody that's done it b4
 

Spectrum

Elite Poster
BGOL Investor
My argument is he gets passes that Melo and Cp3 don’t get when it comes to winning but he’s never gotten to an ECF without a dominate player beside him. Be it Shaq or Lebron.

Because it's a horrible argument. Shaq wasn't dominant in 2006. We've already been through this.
 

therealjondoe

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
Post a series he won where he played that well ever again. He lives off 1 Finals and being LGBT friendly.

He was compared to and likened to Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan when he teamed up with LeBron. :smh:
So he has to top his own top 5 all time nba finals performance or hes trash ok?
:lol:
 

jasonblacc

Rising Star
Registered
Because it's a horrible argument. Shaq wasn't dominant in 2006. We've already been through this.

coming off the MVP year and averaging 20 and 10? While he may not have been as “dominate” as previous years he was still viewed as dominate. Nobody going into that year would’ve said Shaq wasn’t dominate especially coming off the year before.
 

therealjondoe

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
As good well maybe. My argument is he gets passes that Melo and Cp3 don’t get when it comes to winning but he’s never gotten to an ECF without a dominate player beside him. Be it Shaq or Lebron. Now go and argue Shaq was past his prime but the year before he should’ve won the MVP. While maybe not prime Shaq he was still Shaq that’s why he should’ve won the MVP the year before.
[/QUOTE
You could say shaq never won without someone beside him.
In the 05 ecf against the pistons wade got hurt.
Why didn't shaq lead the team to victory?
 

Spectrum

Elite Poster
BGOL Investor
coming off the MVP year and averaging 20 and 10? While he may not have been as “dominate” as previous years he was still viewed as dominate. Nobody going into that year would’ve said Shaq wasn’t dominate especially coming off the year before.

Shaq was still "good" that year. he wasn't anywhere near dominant. it's not even about not being "as dominant". He wasn't dominant in any way at that point. At that point, you were lucky to get 50 games out of shaq. Shaq talks about that season a lot. He said it was the start of his serious decline. His body was breaking down. If he's saying it himself, why should we disagree with him. He played 58 games that season and this is what his next 4 seasons looked like

39
61
33
28
 

KingTaharqa

Greatest Of All Time
BGOL Investor
So he has to top his own top 5 all time nba finals performance or hes trash ok?
:lol:

No just show us consistency. Wade was NEVER consistently great or consistently healthy as a #1 player of an NBA franchise. He played what? 2-3 full seasons as THE guy? And that performance is NOT a top 5 all timer, that shit NEVER gets mentioned or referenced or shown on TV due to blatantly lop sided officiating. 97 free throws? C'mon man.
 

therealjondoe

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
As good well maybe. My argument is he gets passes that Melo and Cp3 don’t get when it comes to winning but he’s never gotten to an ECF without a dominate player beside him. Be it Shaq or Lebron. Now go and argue Shaq was past his prime but the year before he should’ve won the MVP. While maybe not prime Shaq he was still Shaq that’s why he should’ve won the MVP the year before.
One could say shaq never won without someone beside him.
In the 05 ecf vs the pistons wade got injured.
Why didn't shaq lead them to victory?
 

therealjondoe

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
No just show us consistency. Wade was NEVER consistently great or consistently healthy as a #1 player of an NBA franchise. He played what? 2-3 full seasons as THE guy? And that performance is NOT a top 5 all timer, that shit NEVER gets mentioned or referenced or shown on TV due to blatantly lop sided officiating. 97 free throws? C'mon man.
What are you talking about it.
Its brought up as one of the greatest finals performances of all time.
 

Spectrum

Elite Poster
BGOL Investor
coming off the MVP year and averaging 20 and 10?

Fam, I think you're confusing the seasons. Shaq won MVP in the 99' season. This was 7 seasons later. The year before, when we knocked the Heat out of the playoffs, Shaq put up 20 and 7 in the ECF against the Pistons. People were already questioning his impact at that point. He was clearly way past his prime. We're talking in relative terms, a past his prime Shaq is still good, but he wasn't dominant at that point. 20 and 7 isn't special...no one putting up numbers like that as a center would ever be called anywhere close to dominant.
 
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