Yes, you ARE on the right track. I think that you got thrown for a loop or two, that's all.
HBO Series: Watchmen (2019) (drops 10/20/19) Thread
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Yes, you ARE on the right track. I think that you got thrown for a loop or two, that's all.
Fair enough, but we don't know WHY he did that. Pressure from William Reeves himself, the government or the media. Hopefully they can flesh that out.
Nope just forgot about the tell all book that Captain Metropolis wrote @ViCiouS made sure to remind me though
He did it out of pure bigotry. Reeves hid his identity for his safety and survival but Metropolis knew that a Black man would not be accepted in such a role, nor would any of the other Minutemen have followed the lead or co-lead of a Ni99ar.
Did I miss that?!?!?
No I remember that, I didn't put it together with the bullshyt later at the meat packing warehouse
Another thing is that in the TV show, HJ HAS TO KILL the two FBI Agents, not because they know he's been having sex with Metropolis but more importantly because they made him reveal his identity and was gonna photograph him for the purpose of bribery.
He couldn't let the Agents spread knowledge of his true identity as a Black man because it would spread like wildfire around the Agency and all the way up to Hoover, who is also fucking with Metropolis, but a White dude would've stood a chance of actually getting an even trade of secrecy.
The Agents fucked up by revealing that their actions were covert and nobody else knew that HJ was even there nor why. He had no consequences coming for killing them, only added motivation.
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Yeah white or black they had to die!
She encouraged him originally as a means to process his trauma. She objected to him being used as a mascot and monetization tool for white liberal bigoted hypocrites (not to mention the other shit).
Thats how i chose to view it. Full display of white deceit and betrayal on all levela.
That too.. They show her to be insightful and near cerebral in reading people and their intentions. Its certain she knew about that aspect as well.
Some of us assumed (and hoped) they were taking liberties with the AHS TV show character for dramatization purposes and that just like skin color, sexuality was hijacked and bastardized by the story tellers.
The Massacre of Black Wall Street
In 1921, White rioters destroyed a beacon of Black prosperity and security. They killed as many as 300 black Tulsans, left thousands homeless, and ransacked an entire neighborhood. At the time, there were no prosecutions of the instigators. Almost a century later, there have been no...
Watched the movie last night.
Did I miss it or was Dr. Manhattan the only character whose powers were explained? It was unclear to me what powers these people had and why they had them. And I don't really understand the extent of Dr. Manhattan's powers, such as why he didn't save the Vietnamese girl.
I can see why Rorschach appealed to some in this movie but also see the basis for the alt-right ties.
Thought Adrian's final solution was very obviously flawed.
The alternate history aspect was the coolest part to me, the Night Owl/Silk Spectre II relationship the most boring. Worth watching again some day.
"The violence in the movie version always feels heroic. Even when they're in Vietnam, Manhattan killing people and the Comedian shooting his pregnant love-interest still feels weirdly justified."
Um, I think this says more about the viewer than the movie.
Did I miss it or was Dr. Manhattan the only character whose powers were explained? It was unclear to me what powers these people had and why they had them. And I don't really understand the extent of Dr. Manhattan's powers, such as why he didn't save the Vietnamese girl.
I can see why Rorschach appealed to some in this movie but also see the basis for the alt-right ties.
Thought Adrian's final solution was very obviously flawed.
The alternate history aspect was the coolest part to me, the Night Owl/Silk Spectre II relationship the most boring. Worth watching again some day.
Yo...I thought about this thread after seeing this article a few days ago.
Jason Hellerman
May 3, 2019
How Well Does 'Watchmen' Hold Up 10 Years Later?
"Watchmen" was, at one point, the most famous graphic novel of all time. It took 30 years to make it to the big screen. Now, we look back on the film and look forward toward what's to come.
Zach Snyder's Watchmen came during a flurry of "gritty" comic book movies. It was the anti-hero film with dark themes, adult situations, and moral complexity. It asked a lot of the questions we had been pondering while watching the senseless violence that dominated many of the blockbusters of then and now.
But how does Watchmen feel now that we're a viewing audience guided by the moral subjectivity of the Avengers? Watchmen is set in a parallel-1985, in which heroes existed before the U.S. government banned them. In the opening scene, one of the ex-superheroes is murdered, and a former member of his team decides he’s going to solve the crime.
Today we'll look at how Watchmenholds up a decade after it debuted on the big screen. And we'll look toward the next iteration of Watchmen gracing our small screens soon.
How did Watchmen become a movie?
After development hell, a failed Terry Gilliam adaptation, and sitting in stasis, Watchmen burst onto screens in 2009. Both Paul Greengrass and Darren Aronofsky were attached at one point, too, so it kind of seemed out of the blue that Zach Snyder would emerge as the director of choice. But Snyder had been paving his way since the Dawn of the Dead remake. He had a good reputation for turning small budgets into big payoffs. And he and his wife had become power producers after 300's insane box office take.
Snyder wanted to make a superhero film and set his eyes on the graphic novel people called "unfilmable."
With a production budget of around 130 million, and maybe another 60 in advertisements, the movie scrapes by, earning $185,258,983 worldwide, after opening at just over $55 million in its first weekend.
How does Watchmen hold up?
Visually, I think Watchmen exceeds all expectations. There are direct panels that appear ripped from the comic and thrust onto the screen. Even though there are a lot of Snyder haters out there, I don't think any of them can attack his style with merit. He's almost the definition of a pulp auteur. From his slow motion to his heightened CGI-worlds, he has a distinct look and feel to all his projects.
Watching it today, it's hard to believe these special effects are not from the modern era. It's a beautiful movie that has frames that could be paintings.
Cinematographer Larry Fong and director Zack Snyder reteam to bring the epic graphic novel Watchmen to the big screen. And it took a ton of effort. Fong told American Cinematographer:
“So many locations had some kind of poster, photo or newspaper clipping in the background. I started to shoot that material, but it became a massive undertaking, so our set photographer, Clay Enos, ended up shooting most of it.”
Watchmen's production was as big as the comic. The production called for the construction of some 150 sets. The largest by far was the New York City exterior, built near Canadian Motion Picture Park Studios outside of Vancouver. As far as lighting all these sets, Fong stated, “We tried to make as much of the city light itself as possible,” he says, noting that Snyder suggested Taxi Driver (1976) as a reference. “When you’re shooting at night in a real city, you’re usually trying to take away all the weird colors and the multiple shadows to make your shots look beautiful and controlled. In order to make this look real, I decided to keep it raw.”
So in terms of cinematography, yes, Watchmen holds up.
One thing I think he does better than most filmmakers is a montage. And Watchmen has one of the most beautiful montages of all time. It reminds me of the Harry Potter moving images in the Daily Prophet. It makes the world come to reality and steeps us in world-building. Even people who haven't read the comic understand where the story is at once it begins.
But what about the heart of Watchmen?
That's where Snyder's version gets a little muddled. While the original comic was a dressing down of government failings, masculine bravado, nuclear armament, and violence, Snyder's version never quite captures the hallmarks. My main issue is the violence. While Dr. Manhattan of the comics abhors violence and the inhumanity of war, the movie glorifies the badassery.
Credit: Watchmen - Alan Moore
The violence in the movie version always feels heroic. Even when they're in Vietnam, Manhattan killing people and the Comedian shooting his pregnant love-interest still feels weirdly justified. There, the story misses that second level of complexity. The comic was written to take these thoughts and feelings seriously, but Snyder goes the extra mile and makes it into a Sirkian melodrama. At times, I relish it.
I have to admit I find the entire Nite Owl storyline incredible. And I think there are honor and grace in Rorshach.
But I have serious problems with the movie's treatment of women, especially when it comes to their sexuality. While in the comic, the plotlines of rape, prostitution, and Dr. Manhattan's lack of understanding all feel dated, the movie leans into these pieces without updating or tweaking the tone-deaf parts. Or just shoot and treat them with nuance instead of forcing us to conform to the original versions of them.
I don't think they should have been censored, but it would have been interesting to see Silk Spectre II actually talk about her feelings of lust and pleasure with Dr. Manhattan instead of storming out. There are lots of missed opportunities there. And having the culmination of this be a sex scene with Nite Owl feels both against character and missing the opportunity for something intimate and sweet. AKA the exact thing she'd been denied by Dr. Manhattan...
As Jim Vorel states in Paste Magazine:
"Instead of the comic’s immediate post-sex discussion, where Nite Owl and Spectre display disarming honesty about themselves, the film simply segues directly into plot. It can’t help but make the sex act feel completely cheap and perfunctory."
Does Watchmen stick the landing (of the Octopus)?
Working with screenwriters David Hayter and Alex Tse, Snyder worked to adapt Watchmen into an ending that he felt fit more with what had been set up with the characters. At the end of the original comic, Adrian Veidt tries to avert a nuclear war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union by dropping a huge squid on Manhattan and killing thousands, which unites the world against feared alien invaders and calms troubles amongst ourselves.
In the movie, Veidt builds a machine that imitates the powers of Dr. Manhattan which sets off an atom-bomb-like explosion and unites the world against Dr. Manhattan.
This was a controversial choice. And I think I like it. I love how it keeps the story centered on heroes and their place in the world. By Making Dr. Manhattan the villain, humanity was no longer picking apart each other. It's almost as if they let their racist and xenophobic tendencies save themselves, by placing them not on fellow humans but directing them toward metahumans.
Here's a more in-depth excerpt of why it was changed from a podcast interview with the screenwriters as covered by First Showing:
"It takes a lot of setup to introduce an interdimensional space squid, it just does…You can't just say, oh there it is, and look, there's my squid… The difference between the novel and the movie, and this is the real difference, is, we don't have the appendices afterwords. And the whole thing with that storyline is all set up in the Wizard magazine, the stories about the comic book, and it's also set up in Tales of the Black Freighter, to a certain extent - there's stuff about the secret island, these artists…That's all stuff that I would have to spend screen time explaining at the end of a movie where I've already spent two hours explain a lot. Clearly, the movie does not shy away from piling information on top of you. But I felt that that was going to come out of nowhere."
"For all of the infinite possibilities of film, I believe, you have to be very circumspect about the number of magical things that happen in your movie." Hayter tangents onto X-Men and the mutant gene briefly, then continues. "You have Dr. Manhattan, who was your element of magic in the story, and then you have the squid, who came out of another dimension and could cast psychic waves of destruction, and that seemed like an extra bit of magic that came in at the end, and needs a lot of setup to justify it. So, it became obvious that if you use Dr. Manhattan, well, it's already set up, and he is the force, and he is the outside threat that has been throwing the whole world into chaos anyways, he has thrown off history. So in the end, it seemed to make sense."
Read the Watchmen Screenplay!
Watchmen is coming to HBO
I think we can agree that although I have a more generous and fond love of the movie than most, So what's next for Watchmen? Well, it's not TV...it's HBO. HBO's television adaptation is shepherded forward by Lost and The Leftovers mastermind Damon Lindelof. He's also my personal writing hero but that probably doesn't matter to you.
In his statement about why Watchmen and why now, Lindelof said, "What we think about superheroes is wrong...I love the Marvel movies, we saw Justice League, and I'm all for Wonder Woman and Batman and I grew up on these characters, I love these characters. But we should not trust people who put on masks and say that they are looking out for us. If you hide your face, you are up to no good."
The show features an all-star cast headlined by Regina King and Jeremy Irons, and Jean Smart. Lindelof has stated his vision of Watchmen will honor and take place within the universe established by the graphic novel, without remaking it outright. That feels like the best version of an adaptation. you don't have to honor the opus and you can play with the tones and the themes.
This is how HBO puts it:
"Based on the Alan Moore graphic novel, Watchmen is set in an alternate history where “superheroes” are treated as outlaws. And while Lindelof (The Leftovers) plans to embrace the nostalgia of the original groundbreaking graphic novel, the series will also attempt to break new ground of its own. He announced his intentions earlier this spring on Instagram."
Another reason to get excited, Nine Inch Nails' Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross will be creating the original music for the series.
Credit: HBO
What's next? What if Blade saved Marvel?
Marvel's 22 films have comprised one of the most successful franchises ever. We give a lot of credit to Iron Man for making it happen, but what if it was actually "Blade"? It's hard to believe, but DC Comics ruled the box office for much of the 20th Century. But it squandered all the good hope Batman and Superman movies had with Batman & Robin. Things were dismal for superheroes at the box office and no one expected Marvel to make any splashes. Their only foray into the fray, Howard the Duck, wasn't just a flop, it put the entire company on ice. The studio was bankrupt. It was licensing characters. They needed a bailout.
Enter Blade, a movie no one cared about. Click the link to read more!
"The violence in the movie version always feels heroic. Even when they're in Vietnam, Manhattan killing people and the Comedian shooting his pregnant love-interest still feels weirdly justified."
Um, I think this says more about the viewer than the movie.
They don't have powers
That's something the movie fucked up from the first scene, they made it look like the comedian had super strength
Ozymandias just trained his body like Batman to be able to push himself more than normal.
Nite Owl I (Hollis Mason) wrote the book. So he couldn't speak on who he was since he never saw him without his hood.
Yeah, that was firmly set in my mind from that point.
Not buying it but at least I know what they're selling now.
word...i was like come the fuck on ....
name a 100 tv shows n 95 have some fag shit in it ...
fags got us running scared to call them on their bullshit ...
all we do is bitch n complain on here ...
real spit tho how these moms n pops not speaking up on this shit...?
u know they know these tv shows force feeding this shit down their kids throat tht same sex is cool ...
come out with it b gay n proud....smh.. . so many G rated n PG rated sit have fag shit in em shit getting ridiculous...
anyway ..militant that was funny ...lol...shit was so out of place it made no fucking sense at all..
You are correct about Dr. Manhattan being the only one who had powers.
Another aspect that led me to question what powers they had was Rorschach's mask with the ever-shifting inkblot. I guess it could be some mysterious (and convenient and dubious) form of technology but that was a weird feature not to explain.
I did not piece that together.
Could be an obsession. Dr. Manhattan said he left to possibly create life. He also made the smartest man in the world question himself before he left.
I saw the movie and not the comic, I appreciated the post.
At worst, stuff like that can be posted with spoiler tags if people are offended. But, as you said, it is back story, it absolutely is not a spoiler for this continuation of the story.
Its been explained. If I remember correctly, it's a heat-reactive fluid in the mask that changes in response to differences in rorscach's facial temperature and expressions.
Just finishing watching the whole motion comic series. Yesterday. A must watch. It's 12 chapters total with some animation enhancements and I can see why it's considered one the greatest novels of the 20th century. It's pretty amazing how well the capture the comic the 2009 movie. Yeah, the Watchmen movie isn't perfect, but they got it pretty damn close in the time span they used. The writing is so good, they really didn't have to deviate at all. Still the comic gives you a better perspective of the main characters. I was hoping to get a better insight on Hooded Justice, but he wasn't really in the comic like that either. Anyway, I highly recommend watching the whole series. Took a whole day an just sat in front of the TV watching this and it didn't disappoint.
The Massacre of Black Wall Street
In 1921, White rioters destroyed a beacon of Black prosperity and security. They killed as many as 300 black Tulsans, left thousands homeless, and ransacked an entire neighborhood. At the time, there were no prosecutions of the instigators. Almost a century later, there have been no...
It was explained in the movie? (I don't think so but could be wrong.) Or where?
In the comic it’s simply explained as a material created by Dr Manhattan. It’s a viscous fluid between two layers of latex. Rorschach made from a dress that was commissioned by a lady that got murdered.
I don't think the show is presenting an excuse not to do reparations.
That's like saying the craziness and hate of the Trump era is an argument against voting for Obama in 2008. His election is obviously backlash against the election of a black president-- What you do with that reality is up to you. Through episode 3, where I am, I think it's a pretty smart portrayal of blacklash.
Movie ending > book ending
The squid shit is stupid, wish they went with the movie version which was actually pretty cool.
Cal Is Doctor Manhattan
This theory is bold, but one that has been posited by several Reddit users. Through six episodes, Doctor Manhattan has made only brief appearances either in dialogue, on TV screens, twisted theatrical productions, and via one, uh, big blue dildo. But Doctor Manhattan is set to appear in full at some point—we know as much from one of the season’s trailers.
Cal, Angela’s stay-at-home husband, has also been one of the series’ most mysterious characters. We know that he and Angela met in Saigon, Vietnam, and that something happened to him there that Angela didn’t want him talking about to Agent Blake, but we know little of his background beyond that.
As ksendor outlines, there are a few stand-out instances that suggest that Cal could be the blue god himself: He’s quick to affirm that Doctor Manhattan can’t pretend to be human in a conversation with Angela; Laurie has taken a liking to Cal and mentions him to Angela on several occasions; the camera holds a shot on Cal’s surprised face when he sees Laurie at Chief Crawford’s funeral; and at the end of the graphic novel, Doctor Manhattan suggests he has a renewed interest in humanity.
It’s true that, at least in the comics, Doctor Manhattan can’t pretend to be human. But the mere fact the show would explicitly say as much certainly leaves open the possibility that they’re misdirecting—just as they did with the false narrative in the show-within-the-show, American Hero Story, Cal’s line could’ve simply been a tactic to misdirect the audience. Even more, Doctor Manhattan is, again, pretty much a god—it’s been 30 years since we’ve last seen what the good doctor is capable of, so it wouldn’t be surprising to see that he’s figured out how to disguise himself as a human. On the other hand, Laurie’s interest in Cal could simply be related to the fact that, as she’s suggested herself, Cal’s hot.
In the comic, Doctor Manhattan did tell Adrian Veidt that he’d regained interest in humanity, but he also said, “I’m leaving this galaxy for one less complicated.” To that, Adrian responded, “But you’d regained interest in human life,” and Manhattan replied: “Yes, I have. I think perhaps I’ll create some.”
I like this theory, but my guess is that Doctor Manhattan will tie into the show as the god that created all the servants that Adrian has been hanging out with on the Jupiter moon Europa (or wherever the hell the other side of that portal leads to), rather than unveiling himself to secretly be Angela’s husband. There’s a lot left to be learned about Cal (and from the looks of this next episode’s teaser, it seems we’ll soon learn some answers about what happened in Vietnam), and it’s still unclear what exactly happened to him on the White Night, but it might be too much of a thermodynamic miracle for Doctor Manhattan to be living among the humans as Mr. Abar.
This theory is bold, but one that has been posited by several Reddit users. Through six episodes, Doctor Manhattan has made only brief appearances either in dialogue, on TV screens, twisted theatrical productions, and via one, uh, big blue dildo. But Doctor Manhattan is set to appear in full at some point—we know as much from one of the season’s trailers.
Cal, Angela’s stay-at-home husband, has also been one of the series’ most mysterious characters. We know that he and Angela met in Saigon, Vietnam, and that something happened to him there that Angela didn’t want him talking about to Agent Blake, but we know little of his background beyond that.
As ksendor outlines, there are a few stand-out instances that suggest that Cal could be the blue god himself: He’s quick to affirm that Doctor Manhattan can’t pretend to be human in a conversation with Angela; Laurie has taken a liking to Cal and mentions him to Angela on several occasions; the camera holds a shot on Cal’s surprised face when he sees Laurie at Chief Crawford’s funeral; and at the end of the graphic novel, Doctor Manhattan suggests he has a renewed interest in humanity.
It’s true that, at least in the comics, Doctor Manhattan can’t pretend to be human. But the mere fact the show would explicitly say as much certainly leaves open the possibility that they’re misdirecting—just as they did with the false narrative in the show-within-the-show, American Hero Story, Cal’s line could’ve simply been a tactic to misdirect the audience. Even more, Doctor Manhattan is, again, pretty much a god—it’s been 30 years since we’ve last seen what the good doctor is capable of, so it wouldn’t be surprising to see that he’s figured out how to disguise himself as a human. On the other hand, Laurie’s interest in Cal could simply be related to the fact that, as she’s suggested herself, Cal’s hot.
In the comic, Doctor Manhattan did tell Adrian Veidt that he’d regained interest in humanity, but he also said, “I’m leaving this galaxy for one less complicated.” To that, Adrian responded, “But you’d regained interest in human life,” and Manhattan replied: “Yes, I have. I think perhaps I’ll create some.”
I like this theory, but my guess is that Doctor Manhattan will tie into the show as the god that created all the servants that Adrian has been hanging out with on the Jupiter moon Europa (or wherever the hell the other side of that portal leads to), rather than unveiling himself to secretly be Angela’s husband. There’s a lot left to be learned about Cal (and from the looks of this next episode’s teaser, it seems we’ll soon learn some answers about what happened in Vietnam), and it’s still unclear what exactly happened to him on the White Night, but it might be too much of a thermodynamic miracle for Doctor Manhattan to be living among the humans as Mr. Abar.
Gonna have to disagree with you there. I still think that the only way to possibly have any type of peace on Earth is to have to a common enemy. And it has to be something not from here. And the way it was teased throughout the books made it make more sense. The Comedian has seen all type of shit and it would need to be something really fucked up to make him lose his mind.
Words matter... it should read White Terrorist destroyed a beacon of Black prosperity and security.The Massacre of Black Wall Street
In 1921, White rioters destroyed a beacon of Black prosperity and security. They killed as many as 300 black Tulsans, left thousands homeless, and ransacked an entire neighborhood. At the time, there were no prosecutions of the instigators. Almost a century later, there have been no...www.theatlantic.com
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