A Tasmanian devil is about 20 pounds so yes. The real question is can a 20-pound devil beat an 80-pound devil?
Bruce Lee’s legacy ‘flushed down the toilet’ by Quentin Tarantino says daughter
- Thread starter geechiedan
- Start date
Chuck was not a fan of Bruce. He will never say it publicly, but he wasn't.
This...
How do you know this?
Who wants to take a bet that Tarantino manages to put the n-word somehow in that movie?
I have to find the article I read but the person who wrote it said that even tho chuck norris was multiple times karate champ the fights he participated in weren't like MMA or even kickboxing..they weren't full contact.. it was more like Olympic style karate competitions where form and touches to strike areas were counted.
Neither bruce nor chuck participated in knockdown drag out MMA style fight competitions during their careers or times.
so this whole thing about whose the baddest ass-kicker is really very silly.
Clearly it helps in legend-making and in that regard was a large part of boosting both their acting careers but beyond that its just silly. And if bruce was alive he would downplay alot of that stuff just as chuck does.
It was RULES to the fights just like boxing has rules but you were REALLY punched and kicked
People were hurt in those tournaments
Let me put it like this.
It's like saying Rocky could beat Mike Tyson.....
Rocky is an ACTOR while Mike was really doing it.
Bruce NEVER FOUGHT A REAL FIGHT. All his stuff was Hollywood.
In that case the sports world should just get rid of weight classes since it doesn't matter
I wouldn't say bruce never fought a real fight..theres a couple of amatuer fights he apparently had very early on....but neither one of them did full-contact matches.
Let no man pick on Chuck Norris (Born March 10, 1940). A personal favorite of mine. However, his record as a fighter is not as shiny as a fighter isn’t as grand as fans might hope. His fighting career spanned from 1964-1974. He competed in karate and tang soo do competitions of the time. At this point of time, karate matches in this country were point sparring i.e. one hit and they award a point and restart the fight. That said, they did not wear any kind of pads, and the rules were kind of weird. There seemed to be more contact allowed, and there is one match that Norris won with an Ippon Seoi Nage (shoulder throw). Wikipedia lists his record as being 183-10-2. Other sources give other numbers, but the smallest I could find was 65-5. Sadly Mr. Norris never competed in full contact matches. They only got started in the 1970s and at that point, he was too involved with his movie career.
http://www.sagacombat.com/blog/famous-but-were-they-fighters/
That's what the fights consistent of at that time. One hit is scored and you reset....
Who the FUCK wrote this? Hahahaha.....This is a different time now dogz.....
"rules were kind of weird" really???
Guess they never saw the movie "The Karate Kid"
You still was hit by real kicks and punches.
Anyway, Bruce NEVER fought in any tournament amateur or pro....period
yeah but one hit and reset isn't exactly a fight not in the sense that most people are thinking. So even if that hit hurt the whole thing is too stop-start to really consider it a fight.
Viewed TODAY....Times change. You can't discount his accomplishments
I'm certain the Man could kick ass in full contact too (I'm no fan by the way)
I like Bruce 100x better but we have t be logical here.
The idiot that wrote the article says...."oh he was only 65-5"
Are you serious? You know how many people entered those tournaments?
He won 30 of them
Taratino is many WHITE Millenials safe hip ticket into Black and other Ethnic cultures.
I can't stand that shit.
Not a lot but at the same thing he actually avoided the direct question about him being able to take Lee. Chuck did compete and fight in life while Lee's legendary feats were captured on film, of which Norris later became famous for as well.
I personally don't like Norris. Besides him being a pussy in the military and his other views. Chuck trained with Lee for about 2 years plus and sparred but he never says he could beat him. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Billy Blanks, Jim Kelly woulda whupped him in my opinion and it's not even close who the world thinks is the best. It's Lee.
https://blackbeltmag.com/arts/history-philosophy/chuck-norris-vs-bruce-lee
LMAO
exactly, and back to Ali. I guess people forget that he wasn't just some huge buffoon in the ring throwing haymakers and shit. Ali was not only big, he was fucking fast and agile. One fucking punch and Chuck, Bruce, Billy etc anybody was going to sleep for a long ass time! Shit, Ali's lighfoot (footwork) is legendary as well. MF be stung bobbing and weaving and Ali be dancing around fucking with em. Then BAM! Goodnight!
This guy did all the time. For real. But not like you think. You made contact with Gracie you was going down
Kimo fucked Gracie up though
25 Pound advantage here, same result
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Bruce Lee is the GOAT martial arts movie star imo but I can't put any martial arts movie stars in the same category as real fighters, i don't mean these Karate point fighting competitions either. I mean in the Ring or Cage in a real boxing, kickboxing, Dutch or Thai Kickboxing etc.
My best friend works directly for Chuck Norris.
There's some truth to what you're saying here...
Bruce wasn't much of a fighter... when chuck and others, including Bruce, would get together and spar Bruce rarely if ever participated.
And chuck knows he would have beat the brakes off Bruce...
Yup. Ask Kareem about that. He'll straight up tell you that's true.
Why Are You Laughing at Bruce Lee?
By Walter Chaw
Mike Moh as Bruce Lee in Quentin Tarantino’s Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Photo: Andrew Cooper/Columbia Pictures
Quentin Tarantino’sOnce Upon a Time in Hollywoodis filled with characters from American mythology. Beyond its primary protagonists — the men who played cowboys in movies past — there’s the murderous Manson Family, a collective bogey for those opposed to sixties counterculture. And there’s the murdered Sharon Tate, a venerated symbol of innocence lost during the decade. These figures are more than human, and in many ways, less than human, too. The side effect of elevating people to archetype, after all, is that they lose their humanity.
Such was the case for another mythological figure of the sixties who appears in Tarantino’s film: Bruce Lee. In the U.S., Lee came to be perceived as an eastern mystic and berserker golem, two ends of an invincible image he himself helped to perpetuate. But in Once Upon a Time, Lee is less the archetype of American popular consciousness and more, well, human. The portrayal has been met with mixed reviews. Shannon Lee, the martial artist’s daughter and chief executive of the Bruce Lee Family Co., called the performance “disheartening” and “unnecessary.” Tarantino, she believes, “seems to have gone out of the way to make fun of my father and to portray him as a kind of buffoon.” Shannon’s mother, Linda Lee Caldwell, dubbed the performance a “caricature” made to be “insultingly ‘Chinesey.’”
When I saw the character of Bruce Lee (played by actor Mike Moh) in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, my immediate reaction was to cry. Lee is my hero and has been since I first saw him, more than three decades ago, on a bootleg VHS my family borrowed from a local Asian grocer. My reverence for him grew as I got older, following him in movies like The Big Boss and Fist of Fury. I took inspiration from the Hong Kong–American’s struggle for acceptance in Hollywood, an industry that tended to ignore nonwhite faces. He was widely known to U.S. audiences as the sidekick Kato in the TV series The Green Hornet, a subordinate role standard for Asian males in Western cinema (something Jackie Chan and Jet Li would later learn the hard way when attempting their own incursions on these shores). But in China, where The Green Hornet was known as The Kato Show, Lee’s leading-man stardom only rose, catapulting his reputation in the States to that of an untouchable fighter from beyond. His career culminated in a starring part in the joint Hong Kong–American movie, Enter the Dragon, which premiered one month after his tragic death at age 32. By that time, Lee’s status in popular consciousness was iconic. There were dozens of imitators, but only one little dragon.
Lee’s scene in Once Upon a Time is brief but noteworthy, in so far as it veers away from this image of Lee as iconic. He appears on the set of The Green Hornet, which in Tarantino’s universe features protagonist-cowboy Rick Dalton, too. Surrounded by a crowd of crew members, Lee bides his time between takes by monologuing on the abilities of “colored” fighters Joe Louis and Cassius Clay. Lee would “cripple” Clay, he cockily tells his onlookers, should the two fighters ever find themselves opponents. In reality, Lee never claimed he could take Clay; rather, he was quoted as saying Clay would handily beat him up. Yet despite the historical inaccuracy, Moh nails Lee — his voice, his look, his mannerisms. Moh portrays Lee as arrogant (he was), didactic (yes), and hot-tempered (famously), embodying the spirit of a man who had to establish himself as smarter and stronger just to earn second-fiddle roles in a racist industry.
LEARN MORE »
Watching Once Upon a Time, we are not operating under the fantasy that Lee never struggled against racism.
Listening from the sidelines during Lee’s speech is Rick Dalton’s stuntman, Cliff Booth, a pastiche of real-life men like Yakima Canutt and Hal Needham. Booth doesn’t think Lee could trounce Clay (or that Lee had to register his hands as “deadly weapons,” as he claimed), and Booth’s audible scoff makes as much clear. Lee responds by challenging Booth to a fight, and the stuntman agrees. At this point, Moh assumes the martial artist’s trademark fighting stance and begins firing off his familiar vocalizations. I don’t know whether he fought with such panache offscreen, but these are the affectations he assumed for his onscreen persona. This is the Bruce Lee we remember. It was at this point that I realized the audience members around me weren’t fighting back sentimental tears at the sight and sound of Lee like I was — they were laughing.
Growing up as a Chinese kid in a predominantly white area, one of the most common ways people mocked me was by mimicking the noises Lee made. The reaction to Moh’s performance — the chuckles that followed his impression of Lee — felt like a similarly racist gesture. In truth, until very recently, the vast majority of appearances by Asian characters in mainstream American films carried with them the same potential for unintended, racially motivated laughter. (Think: cartoonish figures like Pai Mei, played by Gordon Liu, or Long Duk Dong, played by Gedde Watanabe.) I was less concerned with Tarantino’s depiction of Lee or the outcome of the fight onscreen — Tarantino chose to have Cliff, a fictional member of the director’s Hollywood dream pantheon, best the supposedly unstoppable Lee by throwing him into a car — than with the hardwired reaction to his appearance. I have no doubt there was a portion of my audience laughing at Lee in exhilaration or with nostalgia, just as I have no doubt that the larger portion was laughing because they’ve been programmed to do so. Lee’s legacy, far from insulating him from a white audience’s mocking, actually focuses it.
In the days following Once Upon a Time’s release, it became clear that some people — maybe even some of the people I heard laughing in the theater — wished that Moh’s Lee had thrown Cliff into the sun, perhaps after dislocating all of his joints and ripping out his heart in the process. But I would argue Tarantino’s decision to have Booth fight Lee to a draw doesn’t doesn’t take the air out of Lee; it takes the air out of the constructed mystique that Lee was forced to maintain. That by allowing Lee to regain a portion of his humanity, Tarantino is offering a different, more generous kind of Asian-American representation onscreen. Watching Once Upon a Time, we are not operating under the fantasy that Lee never struggled against racism, or that he wasn’t forced into an outsider role in Hollywood. Here, Lee understands that his status depends on a carefully constructed reputation for supernatural indestructibility. At the end of his fight with Tarantino’s imaginary superhero, Moh’s Lee says “nobody beat the shit out of Bruce.” While some critics saw this as another example of Hollywood doing its best to humiliate an Asian legend, I see it as a man doing his best to hold on to the key to the kingdom.
In real life, when Roman Polanski learned his wife and three houseguests had been murdered, perhaps by a single person, he immediately suspected Lee. Who else, after all, could kill four people with his bare hands? Already, and in his lifetime, the sanctification of Lee’s legend was doing Lee no favors. So Once Upon a Time in Hollywood opted not to perpetuate that image, and instead turns Lee into one of Tarantino’s numerous objects of reclamation, otherwise stuck in our collective, sometimes poisonous American dreamworld. If Tarantino’s not entirely successful here, he has at least revealed the desperate lengths many will go to preserve the viability of an illusion. I am entirely empathetic with the Lee family’s concerns about Lee’s portrayal in this film — hearing audiences laugh for the wrong reasons at a loved one can only be a painful experience. But for me, if only me, watching this attempt to reconfigure a god as a man is as emotional a moment as any in the film. Lee could have quit, but he fought. His legend is amplified by his imperfections, not diminished.
By Walter Chaw
Mike Moh as Bruce Lee in Quentin Tarantino’s Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Photo: Andrew Cooper/Columbia Pictures
Quentin Tarantino’sOnce Upon a Time in Hollywoodis filled with characters from American mythology. Beyond its primary protagonists — the men who played cowboys in movies past — there’s the murderous Manson Family, a collective bogey for those opposed to sixties counterculture. And there’s the murdered Sharon Tate, a venerated symbol of innocence lost during the decade. These figures are more than human, and in many ways, less than human, too. The side effect of elevating people to archetype, after all, is that they lose their humanity.
Such was the case for another mythological figure of the sixties who appears in Tarantino’s film: Bruce Lee. In the U.S., Lee came to be perceived as an eastern mystic and berserker golem, two ends of an invincible image he himself helped to perpetuate. But in Once Upon a Time, Lee is less the archetype of American popular consciousness and more, well, human. The portrayal has been met with mixed reviews. Shannon Lee, the martial artist’s daughter and chief executive of the Bruce Lee Family Co., called the performance “disheartening” and “unnecessary.” Tarantino, she believes, “seems to have gone out of the way to make fun of my father and to portray him as a kind of buffoon.” Shannon’s mother, Linda Lee Caldwell, dubbed the performance a “caricature” made to be “insultingly ‘Chinesey.’”
When I saw the character of Bruce Lee (played by actor Mike Moh) in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, my immediate reaction was to cry. Lee is my hero and has been since I first saw him, more than three decades ago, on a bootleg VHS my family borrowed from a local Asian grocer. My reverence for him grew as I got older, following him in movies like The Big Boss and Fist of Fury. I took inspiration from the Hong Kong–American’s struggle for acceptance in Hollywood, an industry that tended to ignore nonwhite faces. He was widely known to U.S. audiences as the sidekick Kato in the TV series The Green Hornet, a subordinate role standard for Asian males in Western cinema (something Jackie Chan and Jet Li would later learn the hard way when attempting their own incursions on these shores). But in China, where The Green Hornet was known as The Kato Show, Lee’s leading-man stardom only rose, catapulting his reputation in the States to that of an untouchable fighter from beyond. His career culminated in a starring part in the joint Hong Kong–American movie, Enter the Dragon, which premiered one month after his tragic death at age 32. By that time, Lee’s status in popular consciousness was iconic. There were dozens of imitators, but only one little dragon.
Lee’s scene in Once Upon a Time is brief but noteworthy, in so far as it veers away from this image of Lee as iconic. He appears on the set of The Green Hornet, which in Tarantino’s universe features protagonist-cowboy Rick Dalton, too. Surrounded by a crowd of crew members, Lee bides his time between takes by monologuing on the abilities of “colored” fighters Joe Louis and Cassius Clay. Lee would “cripple” Clay, he cockily tells his onlookers, should the two fighters ever find themselves opponents. In reality, Lee never claimed he could take Clay; rather, he was quoted as saying Clay would handily beat him up. Yet despite the historical inaccuracy, Moh nails Lee — his voice, his look, his mannerisms. Moh portrays Lee as arrogant (he was), didactic (yes), and hot-tempered (famously), embodying the spirit of a man who had to establish himself as smarter and stronger just to earn second-fiddle roles in a racist industry.
LEARN MORE »
Watching Once Upon a Time, we are not operating under the fantasy that Lee never struggled against racism.
Listening from the sidelines during Lee’s speech is Rick Dalton’s stuntman, Cliff Booth, a pastiche of real-life men like Yakima Canutt and Hal Needham. Booth doesn’t think Lee could trounce Clay (or that Lee had to register his hands as “deadly weapons,” as he claimed), and Booth’s audible scoff makes as much clear. Lee responds by challenging Booth to a fight, and the stuntman agrees. At this point, Moh assumes the martial artist’s trademark fighting stance and begins firing off his familiar vocalizations. I don’t know whether he fought with such panache offscreen, but these are the affectations he assumed for his onscreen persona. This is the Bruce Lee we remember. It was at this point that I realized the audience members around me weren’t fighting back sentimental tears at the sight and sound of Lee like I was — they were laughing.
Growing up as a Chinese kid in a predominantly white area, one of the most common ways people mocked me was by mimicking the noises Lee made. The reaction to Moh’s performance — the chuckles that followed his impression of Lee — felt like a similarly racist gesture. In truth, until very recently, the vast majority of appearances by Asian characters in mainstream American films carried with them the same potential for unintended, racially motivated laughter. (Think: cartoonish figures like Pai Mei, played by Gordon Liu, or Long Duk Dong, played by Gedde Watanabe.) I was less concerned with Tarantino’s depiction of Lee or the outcome of the fight onscreen — Tarantino chose to have Cliff, a fictional member of the director’s Hollywood dream pantheon, best the supposedly unstoppable Lee by throwing him into a car — than with the hardwired reaction to his appearance. I have no doubt there was a portion of my audience laughing at Lee in exhilaration or with nostalgia, just as I have no doubt that the larger portion was laughing because they’ve been programmed to do so. Lee’s legacy, far from insulating him from a white audience’s mocking, actually focuses it.
In the days following Once Upon a Time’s release, it became clear that some people — maybe even some of the people I heard laughing in the theater — wished that Moh’s Lee had thrown Cliff into the sun, perhaps after dislocating all of his joints and ripping out his heart in the process. But I would argue Tarantino’s decision to have Booth fight Lee to a draw doesn’t doesn’t take the air out of Lee; it takes the air out of the constructed mystique that Lee was forced to maintain. That by allowing Lee to regain a portion of his humanity, Tarantino is offering a different, more generous kind of Asian-American representation onscreen. Watching Once Upon a Time, we are not operating under the fantasy that Lee never struggled against racism, or that he wasn’t forced into an outsider role in Hollywood. Here, Lee understands that his status depends on a carefully constructed reputation for supernatural indestructibility. At the end of his fight with Tarantino’s imaginary superhero, Moh’s Lee says “nobody beat the shit out of Bruce.” While some critics saw this as another example of Hollywood doing its best to humiliate an Asian legend, I see it as a man doing his best to hold on to the key to the kingdom.
In real life, when Roman Polanski learned his wife and three houseguests had been murdered, perhaps by a single person, he immediately suspected Lee. Who else, after all, could kill four people with his bare hands? Already, and in his lifetime, the sanctification of Lee’s legend was doing Lee no favors. So Once Upon a Time in Hollywood opted not to perpetuate that image, and instead turns Lee into one of Tarantino’s numerous objects of reclamation, otherwise stuck in our collective, sometimes poisonous American dreamworld. If Tarantino’s not entirely successful here, he has at least revealed the desperate lengths many will go to preserve the viability of an illusion. I am entirely empathetic with the Lee family’s concerns about Lee’s portrayal in this film — hearing audiences laugh for the wrong reasons at a loved one can only be a painful experience. But for me, if only me, watching this attempt to reconfigure a god as a man is as emotional a moment as any in the film. Lee could have quit, but he fought. His legend is amplified by his imperfections, not diminished.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/h...utm_source=m.facebook.com&utm_medium=referral
Tarentino basically said bruce was cockey and did say he could cripple ali according to bruce's wife's biography.
Tarentino basically said bruce was cockey and did say he could cripple ali according to bruce's wife's biography.
Laila Ali and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar have told a couple of excellent stories about Ali thus far, but one of our favorites comes to us courtesy of Mass Appeal, which dug up an old Ali tale from the 1970s. The story actually comes from the 1987 book, The Making of Enter the Dragon, and it features Enter the Dragon director Robert Clause talking about what Bruce Lee told him once while the two were filming their 1973 movie. At that time, there were many people who debated about what would happen if Ali crossed paths with Lee. Some people thought Lee would be able to dominate Ali in a fight, while others argued Ali would knock Lee out easily. According to Clause, Lee considered both sides of the argument and even practiced fighting Ali by using a full-length mirror. His conclusion? He probably wouldn't have stood a chance.
Here is an excerpt from the book:
Another time Yeung, aka [Bolo] went to see Bruce at Golden Harvest Studios. Bruce was screening a Cassius Clay [Muhammad Ali] documentary. Ali was world heavyweight champion at the time and Bruce saw him as the greatest fighter of them all. The documentary showed Ali in several of his fights. Bruce set up a wide full-length mirror to reflect Ali’s image from the screen. Bruce was looking into the mirror, moving along with Ali.
Bruce’s right hand followed Ali’s right hand, Ali’s left foot followed Bruce’s left foot. Bruce was fighting in Ali’s shoes. “Everybody says I must fight Ali some day.” Bruce said, “I’m studying every move he makes. I’m getting to know how he thinks and moves.” Bruce knew he could never win a fight against Ali. “Look at my hand,” he said. “That’s a little Chinese hand. He’d kill me."
https://www.complex.com/sports/2016/06/bruce-lee-said-muhammad-ali-kill-him-fight
Every fighter is cocky. It’s what they do. Whup ass. Quentin lying and is therefore a fucking faggot for saying that shit. Lee never said he could beat Ali. Ol lemon head mf injecting his own bullshit into his films, as usual. Black men raping or being raped by other men? Fuck Quentin dumbass.
Quentin Tarantino Responds to Controversy Surrounding ‘Once Upon a Time’s Bruce Lee Scene
BY MATT GOLDBERG AUGUST 13, 2019
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Spoilers ahead for Once Upon a Time…in Hollywood.
Like pretty much all Quentin Tarantino movies, Once Upon a Time…in Hollywoodhas invited its fair share of controversies. While the studio probably expected the ending to garner an intense response (hence the desire to crack down on spoilers), there’s also been a lot of talk surrounding the scene involving Bruce Lee (Mike Moh). In the scene, stuntman Cliff Booth (Brad Pitt) flashes back to when he met Lee and the two fought to a draw, which some saw as insulting to Lee’s legacy—to have him appear arrogant and cocky only to be taken down by some stuntman. Some have argued that this is just Cliff providing a sheen to his own memory, but while doing press for the film in Moscow, Tarantino broke down his depiction of Lee and why he was evenly matched with Cliff.
With regards to his depiction of Lee as cocky and arrogant, Tarantino explains [via Variety]:
Photo courtesy of Sony Pictures
Of course, the issue isn’t with Lee being cocky (a lot of great athletes have that arrogance, and people rarely hold that bravado against them since they have the skills to back up their words). The issue is with Cliff being able to hold his own against a martial arts legend. Tarantino continues:
The purpose of the scene is to make Cliff seem lethal, a payoff that lends credence to the accusation that Cliff killed his wife, but also helps sell the conclusion of the movie when Cliff kills Manson Family members. However, the controversy of the scene doesn’t deal with who would win, but why this comes at the expense of Bruce Lee. For a film that clearly adores Sharon Tate (Margot Robbie), a talent that died far too young, Lee is not afforded the same glowing treatment. Instead, he serves to burnish Cliff’s image, and in so doing, is rendered smaller. For fans of Lee, that’s where they take umbrage.
BY MATT GOLDBERG AUGUST 13, 2019
SHARE TWEET
Spoilers ahead for Once Upon a Time…in Hollywood.
Like pretty much all Quentin Tarantino movies, Once Upon a Time…in Hollywoodhas invited its fair share of controversies. While the studio probably expected the ending to garner an intense response (hence the desire to crack down on spoilers), there’s also been a lot of talk surrounding the scene involving Bruce Lee (Mike Moh). In the scene, stuntman Cliff Booth (Brad Pitt) flashes back to when he met Lee and the two fought to a draw, which some saw as insulting to Lee’s legacy—to have him appear arrogant and cocky only to be taken down by some stuntman. Some have argued that this is just Cliff providing a sheen to his own memory, but while doing press for the film in Moscow, Tarantino broke down his depiction of Lee and why he was evenly matched with Cliff.
With regards to his depiction of Lee as cocky and arrogant, Tarantino explains [via Variety]:
“The way he was talking, I didn’t just make a lot of that up. I heard him say things like that, to that effect. If people are saying, ‘Well he never said he could beat up Muhammad Ali,’ well yeah, he did. Not only did he say that, but his wife, Linda Lee, said that in her first biography I ever read. She absolutely said that,”
Photo courtesy of Sony Pictures
Of course, the issue isn’t with Lee being cocky (a lot of great athletes have that arrogance, and people rarely hold that bravado against them since they have the skills to back up their words). The issue is with Cliff being able to hold his own against a martial arts legend. Tarantino continues:
“Could Cliff beat up Bruce Lee? Brad [Pitt] would not be able to beat up Bruce Lee, but Cliff maybe could,” said Tarantino. “If you ask me the question, ‘Who would win in a fight: Bruce Lee or Dracula?’ It’s the same question. It’s a fictional character. If I say Cliff can beat Bruce Lee up, he’s a fictional character so he could beat Bruce Lee up. The reality of the situation is this: Cliff is a Green Beret. He has killed many men in WWII in hand-to-hand combat. What Bruce Lee is talking about in the whole thing is that he admires warriors. He admires combat, and boxing is a closer approximation of combat as a sport. Cliff is not part of the sport that is like combat, he is a warrior. He is a combat person.”
Tarantino concluded, “If Cliff were fighting Bruce Lee in a martial arts tournament in Madison Square Garden, Bruce would kill him. But if Cliff and Bruce were fighting in the jungles of the Philippines in a hand-to-hand combat fight, Cliff would kill him.”
Tarantino concluded, “If Cliff were fighting Bruce Lee in a martial arts tournament in Madison Square Garden, Bruce would kill him. But if Cliff and Bruce were fighting in the jungles of the Philippines in a hand-to-hand combat fight, Cliff would kill him.”
The purpose of the scene is to make Cliff seem lethal, a payoff that lends credence to the accusation that Cliff killed his wife, but also helps sell the conclusion of the movie when Cliff kills Manson Family members. However, the controversy of the scene doesn’t deal with who would win, but why this comes at the expense of Bruce Lee. For a film that clearly adores Sharon Tate (Margot Robbie), a talent that died far too young, Lee is not afforded the same glowing treatment. Instead, he serves to burnish Cliff’s image, and in so doing, is rendered smaller. For fans of Lee, that’s where they take umbrage.
thank you. Dude posted chucks record as if he was fighting in k1 or some shit lol dude is a point fighter. That’s just glorified sparring, Chuck Norris was a doughy that 70s show reject looking white boy.(just look at the way each man moves and tell me there’s similar athleticism) Neither are pros but my money would be on Bruce who actually practiced grappling with judo gene and broadened his art last the traditional. To me it would be like a karate point fighter vs an early mma fighter.
Example of chucks bullshit fighting record
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trailers looked terrible, he’s been trash since sally menke died(makes you wonder)
Lol @ supporting Tarantino at this point
Quentin Tarantino Responds to Controversy Surrounding ‘Once Upon a Time’s Bruce Lee Scene
BY MATT GOLDBERG AUGUST 13, 2019
SHARE TWEET
Spoilers ahead for Once Upon a Time…in Hollywood.
Like pretty much all Quentin Tarantino movies, Once Upon a Time…in Hollywoodhas invited its fair share of controversies. While the studio probably expected the ending to garner an intense response (hence the desire to crack down on spoilers), there’s also been a lot of talk surrounding the scene involving Bruce Lee (Mike Moh). In the scene, stuntman Cliff Booth (Brad Pitt) flashes back to when he met Lee and the two fought to a draw, which some saw as insulting to Lee’s legacy—to have him appear arrogant and cocky only to be taken down by some stuntman. Some have argued that this is just Cliff providing a sheen to his own memory, but while doing press for the film in Moscow, Tarantino broke down his depiction of Lee and why he was evenly matched with Cliff.
With regards to his depiction of Lee as cocky and arrogant, Tarantino explains [via Variety]:
“The way he was talking, I didn’t just make a lot of that up. I heard him say things like that, to that effect. If people are saying, ‘Well he never said he could beat up Muhammad Ali,’ well yeah, he did. Not only did he say that, but his wife, Linda Lee, said that in her first biography I ever read. She absolutely said that,”
Photo courtesy of Sony Pictures
Of course, the issue isn’t with Lee being cocky (a lot of great athletes have that arrogance, and people rarely hold that bravado against them since they have the skills to back up their words). The issue is with Cliff being able to hold his own against a martial arts legend. Tarantino continues:
“Could Cliff beat up Bruce Lee? Brad [Pitt] would not be able to beat up Bruce Lee, but Cliff maybe could,” said Tarantino. “If you ask me the question, ‘Who would win in a fight: Bruce Lee or Dracula?’ It’s the same question. It’s a fictional character. If I say Cliff can beat Bruce Lee up, he’s a fictional character so he could beat Bruce Lee up. The reality of the situation is this: Cliff is a Green Beret. He has killed many men in WWII in hand-to-hand combat. What Bruce Lee is talking about in the whole thing is that he admires warriors. He admires combat, and boxing is a closer approximation of combat as a sport. Cliff is not part of the sport that is like combat, he is a warrior. He is a combat person.”
Tarantino concluded, “If Cliff were fighting Bruce Lee in a martial arts tournament in Madison Square Garden, Bruce would kill him. But if Cliff and Bruce were fighting in the jungles of the Philippines in a hand-to-hand combat fight, Cliff would kill him.”
The purpose of the scene is to make Cliff seem lethal, a payoff that lends credence to the accusation that Cliff killed his wife, but also helps sell the conclusion of the movie when Cliff kills Manson Family members. However, the controversy of the scene doesn’t deal with who would win, but why this comes at the expense of Bruce Lee. For a film that clearly adores Sharon Tate (Margot Robbie), a talent that died far too young, Lee is not afforded the same glowing treatment. Instead, he serves to burnish Cliff’s image, and in so doing, is rendered smaller. For fans of Lee, that’s where they take umbrage.
Did it ever occur to anyone that Linda was most likely exaggerating to perpetuate and maintain her dead husband's legend and myth? Maybe because the Bruce Lee mystique is not only how that family makes money from his estate but it has real meaning in inspiring people all over the world to try to be something more what the world tells them they can be. We keep forgetting that Bruce was the first Asian man to do what he did in terms of international superstardom and even popularity in the states. Remember HOLLYWOOD DID NOT MAKE BRUCE LEE. He himself in his life nor his family today have no reason to hold allegiance to or act beholden to that industry. As much as everyone wants to act above it all...RACE MATTERS IN AMERICA. Particularly in its entertainment industry. The same Hollywood that held him at arm's length is the same one that would rather give a show about an Asian man to white guy rather than him...is the same industry that portrayed people who looked like him as koolies and servants.
Bruce was an American citizen but only barely so in reality...he was born in San Francisco but mostly lived and grew up in hong kong and came back to the states to claim his citizenship as he had to by the time he was 18. So when Hollywood passed him over he went back to his father's country and literally changed the action cinema game. And because he popularized martial arts in a way that made look not just lethal but relatable and doable and cool as fuck..it bought with it this veneer of badassery. Immigrants and minorities loved Bruce Lee because he represented a nonwhite person kicking ass and taking names and that was relatable and needed. Joey Diaz tells this funny story but there's a lot of truth in it:
That kind of stuff fueled his legend of being a bad-ass. Which was embraced by Asian people and people abroad but when that wave of popularity washed up on American shores it was unprecedented because that kind of mantle is usually reserved for white men like John Wayne and Steve McQueen, and going back to the old west legends like Billy the Kid and Doc Halliday, etc.
The thing is that no one tries to challenge the myth and legends of white men. Tarantino is supposed to be a big fan of Bruce Lee yet what he did is described as a "deconstruction of his myth"....WHY? Bruce Lee represents something REAL to many people so why deconstruct it? Would he ever do a movie where he shows John Wayne being less than JOHN WAYNE and taken down a peg or two? How about Chuck Norris who in the last 20 years has had whole invincibility memes about him...How about he does of a scene of Chuck NOT being the steely-eyed ass-kicking machine we know him as. It wouldn't even occur to QT to do something like that. And as a nonwhite person growing up in a society with a long history of going out of its way to downplay nonwhite people and showing them as less than... the visual of seeing a REGULAR WHITE MAN BATTLE THE GREAT BRUCE LEE TO A DRAW just comes off as white America's way of taking down yet another great nonwhite person (for their own good).
So yeah I can see why Shannon Lee would have issues with it and be highly protective of her father's image on more levels than just financial.
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Did it ever occur to anyone that Linda was most likely exaggerating to perpetuate and maintain her dead husband's legend and myth? Maybe because the Bruce Lee myth is not only how that family makes money from his estate but it has real meaning in inspiring people all over the world to try to be something more what the world tells them they can be. We keep forgetting that Bruce was the first Asian man to do what he did in terms of international superstardom and even popularity in the states. Remember HOLLYWOOD DID NOT MAKE BRUCE LEE. He himself in his life nor his family today have no reason to hold allegiance to or act beholden to that industry. As much as everyone wants to act above it all...RACE MATTERS IN AMERICA. Particularly in its entertainment industry. The same Hollywood that held him at arm's length is the same one that would rather give a show about an Asian man to white guy rather than him...is the same industry that portrayed people who looked like him as koolies and servants.
Bruce was an American citizen but only barely so in reality...he was born in San Francisco but mostly lived and grew up in hong kong and came back to the states to claim his citizenship as he had to by the time he was 18. So when Hollywood passed him over he went back to his father's country and literally changed the action cinema game. And because he popularized martial arts in a way that made look not just lethal but relatable and doable and cool as fuck..it bought with it this veneer of badassery. Immigrants and minorities loved Bruce Lee because he represented a nonwhite person kicking ass and taking names and that was relatable and needed. Joey Diaz tells this funny story but there's a lot of truth in it:
That kind of stuff fueled his legend of being a bad-ass. Which was embraced by Asian people and people abroad but when that wave of popularity washed up on American shores it was unprecedented because that kind of mantle is usually reserved for white men like John Wayne and Steve McQueen, and going back to the old west legends like Billy the Kid and Doc Halliday, etc.
The thing is that no one tries to challenge the myth and legends of white men. Tarantino is supposed to be a big fan of Bruce Lee yet what he did is described as a "deconstruction of his myth"....WHY? Bruce Lee represents something REAL to many people so why deconstruct it? Would he ever do a movie where he shows John Wayne being less than JOHN WAYNE and taken down a peg or two? How about Chuck Norris who in the last 20 years has had whole invincibility memes about him...How about he does of a scene of Chuck NOT being the steely-eyed ass-kicking machine we know him as. It wouldn't even occur to QT to do something like that. And as a nonwhite person growing up in a society with a long history of going out of its way to downplay nonwhite people and showing them as less than... the visual of seeing a REGULAR WHITE MAN BATTLE THE GREAT BRUCE LEE TO A DRAW just comes off as white America's way of taking down yet another great nonwhite person (for their own good).
So yeah I can see why Shannon Lee would have issues with it and be highly protective of her father's image on more levels than just financial.
Well damn.
Every white male crutic has dismissed this as viewers being too dumb to dumb to understand that the scene is obviously a romanticized version of events from the stunt mans perspective...
I have NOT scene the entire movie so I'm gonna wait to fully comment
But from what ive READ so far?
It aint THAT simple.
I have NOT scene the entire movie so I'm gonna wait to fully comment
But from what ive READ so far?
It aint THAT simple.
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