its not....if nonwhite people are paranoid about racism its because we were made to react that way. Theres a ALOT of precedents to go on.
Bruce Lee’s legacy ‘flushed down the toilet’ by Quentin Tarantino says daughter
- Thread starter geechiedan
- Start date
@playahaitian actually Sessue Hayakawa a japanese dude was Hollywood's 1st sex symbol and had all types of white american women over him, he was making $2mil a yr all the way back during the silent film era but I get your point, Bruce Lee to this day is still the biggest Asian Star ever in America
I do not think I wrote anything questioning Bruce Lee greatness. All I said was the critics particuliarly white males seem to be defending that sequence HEAVY...
and while I aint SEEN it yet?
I can COMPLETELY understand why Bruce fans are pissed
and yeah I can ALSO see it as of course a silly exaggerated fantasy scene. But Tarantino KNOWS what a scene like that in HIS hands can be recieved as.
Again I feel dumb going this deep when I only saw the sequence OUTSIDE the entire film.
Bruce Lee’s daughter, Shannon Lee, is responding to director Quentin Tarantino’s latest comments regarding her father’s portrayal in the film “Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.”
“He could shut up about it,” she told Variety when asked how Tarantino could rectify the controversy. “That would be really nice. Or he could apologize or he could say, ‘I don’t really know what Bruce Lee was like. I just wrote it for my movie. But that shouldn’t be taken as how he really was.'”
Tarantino recently defended his depiction of the Asian American martial arts legend (portrayed by Mike Moh) as an arrogant blowhard. “Bruce Lee was kind of an arrogant guy,” Tarantino said at a recent press junket in Moscow. “The way he was talking, I didn’t just make a lot of that up. I heard him say things like that, to that effect. If people are saying, ‘Well he never said he could beat up Muhammad Ali.’ Well, yeah, he did. Not only did he say that, but his wife, Linda Lee, said that in her first biography I ever read. She absolutely said that.”
Not the case, Shannon Lee says.
“One of the things that’s troubling in his response is that, on the one hand, he wants to put this forward as fact and, on the other hand, he wants to stay in fiction,” she added.
Lee said that her father’s confidence could be mistaken for arrogance and does not call him a “perfect man.” However, she noted that the kind of criticism Tarantino draws on is one that she has heard before, primarily from other white men who were in martial arts and in Hollywood.
The passage in his wife Linda Lee Cadwell’s book, “Bruce Lee: The Man I Only Knew,” that Tarantino appears to refer to is a quote from a critic, who wrote that “Those who watched [Bruce] Lee would bet on Lee to render Cassius Clay senseless,” and not from the author herself (Clay was later known as Muhammad Ali).
“[Tarantino] can portray Bruce Lee however he wanted to, and he did,” Shannon Lee said. “But it’s a little disingenuous for him to say, ‘Well, this is how he was, but this is a fictional movie, so don’t worry too much about it.’”
Bruce Lee’s protégé and training partner Dan Inosanto also rejected the idea that Lee would have bragged about being able to defeat Muhammad Ali in a previous interview with Variety.
https://variety.com/2019/film/news/...on-lee-interview-1203302850/#article-comments
As a fan and follower of Bruce Lee & his philosophies and having seen the movie, I have to say that anyone who took offense to that movie can eat a dick with AIDS on the tip. This PC or WANTING TO BE OFFENDED mindset is out of control. It’s a fucking Tarantino movie... SuSpension of disbelief. When your watch his movies it’s like reading a book, you leave reality and enter Tarantino’s world.
In everyone of Bruce’s movies, he’s always been portrayed as the badass, from the Big Boss(the best one in my opinion) to Game of Death. Just the fact that he is in one movie that doesn’t keep perpetuating Bruce’s badass narrative, and the film happen to be directed by a white dude ppl try to spin shit as if racist /bigotrist intentions were afoot. Get the fuck out of here.
Tarantino did his thing with that movie. Cinematography, Editing, Writing, Sound Design was on point. I was more concerned about Tarantino showing the Tate murders, which had everyone in the theater on their seat until Cliff opened that door. Now if the Studios had given the OK to show those murders in the fashion that Tarantino usually shows violence this would be a WHOLE different thread... TRUST ME.
In everyone of Bruce’s movies, he’s always been portrayed as the badass, from the Big Boss(the best one in my opinion) to Game of Death. Just the fact that he is in one movie that doesn’t keep perpetuating Bruce’s badass narrative, and the film happen to be directed by a white dude ppl try to spin shit as if racist /bigotrist intentions were afoot. Get the fuck out of here.
Tarantino did his thing with that movie. Cinematography, Editing, Writing, Sound Design was on point. I was more concerned about Tarantino showing the Tate murders, which had everyone in the theater on their seat until Cliff opened that door. Now if the Studios had given the OK to show those murders in the fashion that Tarantino usually shows violence this would be a WHOLE different thread... TRUST ME.
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Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Bruce Lee Was My Friend, and Tarantino's Movie Disrespects Him
8:08 AM PDT 8/16/2019 by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Alamy Stock Photo
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bruce Lee during the filming of 'Game of Death,' released in 1978.
The NBA great and Hollywood Reporter columnist, a friend of the late martial arts star, believes the filmmaker was sloppy, somewhat racist and shirked his responsibility to basic truth in 'Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.'
Remember that time Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. kidney-punched a waiter for serving soggy croutons in his tomato soup? How about the time the Dalai Lama got wasted and spray-painted “Karma Is a Beach” on the Tibetan ambassador’s limo? Probably not, since they never happened. But they could happen if a filmmaker decides to write those scenes into his or her movie. And, even though we know the movie is fiction, those scenes will live on in our shared cultural conscience as impressions of those real people, thereby corrupting our memory of them built on their real-life actions.
That’s why filmmakers have a responsibility when playing with people’s perceptions of admired historic people to maintain a basic truth about the content of their character. Quentin Tarantino’s portrayal of Bruce Lee in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood does not live up to this standard. Of course, Tarantino has the artistic right to portray Bruce any way he wants. But to do so in such a sloppy and somewhat racist way is a failure both as an artist and as a human being.
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This controversy has left me torn. Tarantino is one of my favorite filmmakers because he is so bold, uncompromising and unpredictable. There’s a giddy energy in his movies of someone who loves movies and wants you to love them, too. I attend each Tarantino film as if it were an event, knowing that his distillation of the ’60s and ’70s action movies will be much more entertaining than a simple homage. That’s what makes the Bruce Lee scenes so disappointing, not so much on a factual basis, but as a lapse of cultural awareness.
Bruce Lee was my friend and teacher. That doesn’t give him a free pass for how he’s portrayed in movies. But it does give me some insight into the man. I first met Bruce when I was a student at UCLA looking to continue my martial arts studies, which I started in New York City. We quickly developed a friendship as well as a student-teacher relationship. He taught me the discipline and spirituality of martial arts, which was greatly responsible for me being able to play competitively in the NBA for 20 years with very few injuries.
SONY PICTURES ENTERTAINMENT
Mike Moh as Bruce Lee in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
During our years of friendship, he spoke passionately about how frustrated he was with the stereotypical representation of Asians in film and TV. The only roles were for inscrutable villains or bowing servants. In Have Gun - Will Travel, Paladin’s faithful Chinese servant goes by the insulting name of “Hey Boy” (Kam Tong). He was replaced in season four by a female character referred to as “Hey Girl” (Lisa Lu). Asian men were portrayed as sexless accessories to a scene, while the women were subservient. This was how African-American men and women were generally portrayed until the advent of Sidney Poitier and blaxploitation films. Bruce was dedicated to changing the dismissive image of Asians through his acting, writing and promotion of Jeet Kune Do, his interpretation of martial arts.
That’s why it disturbs me that Tarantino chose to portray Bruce in such a one-dimensional way. The John Wayne machismo attitude of Cliff (Brad Pitt), an aging stuntman who defeats the arrogant, uppity Chinese guy harks back to the very stereotypes Bruce was trying to dismantle. Of course the blond, white beefcake American can beat your fancy Asian chopsocky dude because that foreign crap doesn’t fly here.
I might even go along with the skewered version of Bruce if that wasn’t the only significant scene with him, if we’d also seen a glimpse of his other traits, of his struggle to be taken seriously in Hollywood. Alas, he was just another Hey Boy prop to the scene. The scene is complicated by being presented as a flashback, but in a way that could suggest the stuntman’s memory is cartoonishly biased in his favor. Equally disturbing is the unresolved shadow that Cliff may have killed his wife with a spear gun because she nagged him. Classic Cliff. Is Cliff more heroic because he also doesn’t put up with outspoken women?
I was in public with Bruce several times when some random jerk would loudly challenge Bruce to a fight. He always politely declined and moved on. First rule of Bruce’s fight club was don’t fight — unless there is no other option. He felt no need to prove himself. He knew who he was and that the real fight wasn’t on the mat, it was on the screen in creating opportunities for Asians to be seen as more than grinning stereotypes. Unfortunately, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood prefers the good old ways.
8:08 AM PDT 8/16/2019 by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
- EMAIL ME
Alamy Stock Photo
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bruce Lee during the filming of 'Game of Death,' released in 1978.
The NBA great and Hollywood Reporter columnist, a friend of the late martial arts star, believes the filmmaker was sloppy, somewhat racist and shirked his responsibility to basic truth in 'Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.'
Remember that time Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. kidney-punched a waiter for serving soggy croutons in his tomato soup? How about the time the Dalai Lama got wasted and spray-painted “Karma Is a Beach” on the Tibetan ambassador’s limo? Probably not, since they never happened. But they could happen if a filmmaker decides to write those scenes into his or her movie. And, even though we know the movie is fiction, those scenes will live on in our shared cultural conscience as impressions of those real people, thereby corrupting our memory of them built on their real-life actions.
That’s why filmmakers have a responsibility when playing with people’s perceptions of admired historic people to maintain a basic truth about the content of their character. Quentin Tarantino’s portrayal of Bruce Lee in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood does not live up to this standard. Of course, Tarantino has the artistic right to portray Bruce any way he wants. But to do so in such a sloppy and somewhat racist way is a failure both as an artist and as a human being.
ADVERTISING
This controversy has left me torn. Tarantino is one of my favorite filmmakers because he is so bold, uncompromising and unpredictable. There’s a giddy energy in his movies of someone who loves movies and wants you to love them, too. I attend each Tarantino film as if it were an event, knowing that his distillation of the ’60s and ’70s action movies will be much more entertaining than a simple homage. That’s what makes the Bruce Lee scenes so disappointing, not so much on a factual basis, but as a lapse of cultural awareness.
Bruce Lee was my friend and teacher. That doesn’t give him a free pass for how he’s portrayed in movies. But it does give me some insight into the man. I first met Bruce when I was a student at UCLA looking to continue my martial arts studies, which I started in New York City. We quickly developed a friendship as well as a student-teacher relationship. He taught me the discipline and spirituality of martial arts, which was greatly responsible for me being able to play competitively in the NBA for 20 years with very few injuries.
SONY PICTURES ENTERTAINMENT
Mike Moh as Bruce Lee in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
During our years of friendship, he spoke passionately about how frustrated he was with the stereotypical representation of Asians in film and TV. The only roles were for inscrutable villains or bowing servants. In Have Gun - Will Travel, Paladin’s faithful Chinese servant goes by the insulting name of “Hey Boy” (Kam Tong). He was replaced in season four by a female character referred to as “Hey Girl” (Lisa Lu). Asian men were portrayed as sexless accessories to a scene, while the women were subservient. This was how African-American men and women were generally portrayed until the advent of Sidney Poitier and blaxploitation films. Bruce was dedicated to changing the dismissive image of Asians through his acting, writing and promotion of Jeet Kune Do, his interpretation of martial arts.
That’s why it disturbs me that Tarantino chose to portray Bruce in such a one-dimensional way. The John Wayne machismo attitude of Cliff (Brad Pitt), an aging stuntman who defeats the arrogant, uppity Chinese guy harks back to the very stereotypes Bruce was trying to dismantle. Of course the blond, white beefcake American can beat your fancy Asian chopsocky dude because that foreign crap doesn’t fly here.
I might even go along with the skewered version of Bruce if that wasn’t the only significant scene with him, if we’d also seen a glimpse of his other traits, of his struggle to be taken seriously in Hollywood. Alas, he was just another Hey Boy prop to the scene. The scene is complicated by being presented as a flashback, but in a way that could suggest the stuntman’s memory is cartoonishly biased in his favor. Equally disturbing is the unresolved shadow that Cliff may have killed his wife with a spear gun because she nagged him. Classic Cliff. Is Cliff more heroic because he also doesn’t put up with outspoken women?
I was in public with Bruce several times when some random jerk would loudly challenge Bruce to a fight. He always politely declined and moved on. First rule of Bruce’s fight club was don’t fight — unless there is no other option. He felt no need to prove himself. He knew who he was and that the real fight wasn’t on the mat, it was on the screen in creating opportunities for Asians to be seen as more than grinning stereotypes. Unfortunately, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood prefers the good old ways.
Did it ever occur to anyone that Linda was most likely exaggerating to perpetuate and maintain her dead husband's legend and myth? Maybe because the Bruce Lee mystique is not only how that family makes money from his estate but it has real meaning in inspiring people all over the world to try to be something more what the world tells them they can be. We keep forgetting that Bruce was the first Asian man to do what he did in terms of international superstardom and even popularity in the states. Remember HOLLYWOOD DID NOT MAKE BRUCE LEE. He himself in his life nor his family today have no reason to hold allegiance to or act beholden to that industry. As much as everyone wants to act above it all...RACE MATTERS IN AMERICA. Particularly in its entertainment industry. The same Hollywood that held him at arm's length is the same one that would rather give a show about an Asian man to white guy rather than him...is the same industry that portrayed people who looked like him as koolies and servants.
Bruce was an American citizen but only barely so in reality...he was born in San Francisco but mostly lived and grew up in hong kong and came back to the states to claim his citizenship as he had to by the time he was 18. So when Hollywood passed him over he went back to his father's country and literally changed the action cinema game. And because he popularized martial arts in a way that made look not just lethal but relatable and doable and cool as fuck..it bought with it this veneer of badassery. Immigrants and minorities loved Bruce Lee because he represented a nonwhite person kicking ass and taking names and that was relatable and needed. Joey Diaz tells this funny story but there's a lot of truth in it:
That kind of stuff fueled his legend of being a bad-ass. Which was embraced by Asian people and people abroad but when that wave of popularity washed up on American shores it was unprecedented because that kind of mantle is usually reserved for white men like John Wayne and Steve McQueen, and going back to the old west legends like Billy the Kid and Doc Halliday, etc.
The thing is that no one tries to challenge the myth and legends of white men. Tarantino is supposed to be a big fan of Bruce Lee yet what he did is described as a "deconstruction of his myth"....WHY? Bruce Lee represents something REAL to many people so why deconstruct it? Would he ever do a movie where he shows John Wayne being less than JOHN WAYNE and taken down a peg or two? How about Chuck Norris who in the last 20 years has had whole invincibility memes about him...How about he does of a scene of Chuck NOT being the steely-eyed ass-kicking machine we know him as. It wouldn't even occur to QT to do something like that. And as a nonwhite person growing up in a society with a long history of going out of its way to downplay nonwhite people and showing them as less than... the visual of seeing a REGULAR WHITE MAN BATTLE THE GREAT BRUCE LEE TO A DRAW just comes off as white America's way of taking down yet another great nonwhite person (for their own good).
So yeah I can see why Shannon Lee would have issues with it and be highly protective of her father's image on more levels than just financial.
Did it ever occur to anyone that Linda was most likely exaggerating to perpetuate and maintain her dead husband's legend and myth? Maybe because the Bruce Lee myth is not only how that family makes money from his estate but it has real meaning in inspiring people all over the world to try to be something more what the world tells them they can be. We keep forgetting that Bruce was the first Asian man to do what he did in terms of international superstardom and even popularity in the states. Remember HOLLYWOOD DID NOT MAKE BRUCE LEE. He himself in his life nor his family today have no reason to hold allegiance to or act beholden to that industry. As much as everyone wants to act above it all...RACE MATTERS IN AMERICA. Particularly in its entertainment industry. The same Hollywood that held him at arm's length is the same one that would rather give a show about an Asian man to white guy rather than him...is the same industry that portrayed people who looked like him as koolies and servants.
Bruce was an American citizen but only barely so in reality...he was born in San Francisco but mostly lived and grew up in hong kong and came back to the states to claim his citizenship as he had to by the time he was 18. So when Hollywood passed him over he went back to his father's country and literally changed the action cinema game. And because he popularized martial arts in a way that made look not just lethal but relatable and doable and cool as fuck..it bought with it this veneer of badassery. Immigrants and minorities loved Bruce Lee because he represented a nonwhite person kicking ass and taking names and that was relatable and needed. Joey Diaz tells this funny story but there's a lot of truth in it:
That kind of stuff fueled his legend of being a bad-ass. Which was embraced by Asian people and people abroad but when that wave of popularity washed up on American shores it was unprecedented because that kind of mantle is usually reserved for white men like John Wayne and Steve McQueen, and going back to the old west legends like Billy the Kid and Doc Halliday, etc.
The thing is that no one tries to challenge the myth and legends of white men. Tarantino is supposed to be a big fan of Bruce Lee yet what he did is described as a "deconstruction of his myth"....WHY? Bruce Lee represents something REAL to many people so why deconstruct it? Would he ever do a movie where he shows John Wayne being less than JOHN WAYNE and taken down a peg or two? How about Chuck Norris who in the last 20 years has had whole invincibility memes about him...How about he does of a scene of Chuck NOT being the steely-eyed ass-kicking machine we know him as. It wouldn't even occur to QT to do something like that. And as a nonwhite person growing up in a society with a long history of going out of its way to downplay nonwhite people and showing them as less than... the visual of seeing a REGULAR WHITE MAN BATTLE THE GREAT BRUCE LEE TO A DRAW just comes off as white America's way of taking down yet another great nonwhite person (for their own good).
So yeah I can see why Shannon Lee would have issues with it and be highly protective of her father's image on more levels than just financial.
Great fucking post...
Ppl forget Raymond Chow made Bruce Lee the superstar we know and love. If it wasn’t for him and his business acumen of how to distribute movies to the West, then the Shaw Brothers would’ve done it and Gordon Liu or Alexander Fu Sheng would’ve been the hottest shit during that time. Shoot the Shaw Brother had films out way before Bruce got into cinema. Matter fact when the Shaw Brothers were laying the foundation down in China, Bruce was doing soap operas. The Shaw Brothers just didn’t have the vision that Raymond Chow & Golden Harvest had at the time. But thanks to Raymond Chow & Golden Harvest work, they laid the foundation for more authentic Asian movies from the East to reach the West.
Yep..I did a video on it.
I agree that the stage was set for Bruce to capitalize but I dunno if Gordon Liu or Alexander Fu Sheng would have had the same impact if Bruce hadn't come along. Bruce's cinematic treatment of martial arts wasn't the same as those others. Because he was literally the first MMA type martial artist he added western style boxing and generally just had a flair and style to how he presented his style of kung fu that was VERY distinctive to himself.
You can tell when someone is imitating Bruce Lee...I don't its as clear when someone is imitating Gordon Liu or Alexander Fu Sheng.
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I'm tired of these CAC and then seeing black people defend them. Tarantino loves doing racist shit and passing it off as art. Fuck him.
I can listen to Migos and Gucci say nigga 100x a song and pay them for it at a concert. I don't want to see a bunch of white guys randomly talking down about black people and calling them ******* at a diner table, and then every CAC saying its an awesome scene with 10 white dudes sit at a diner and it last for 20 minutes while they plan a robbery and casually talk about ****** this and ****** that.
Hollywood has a hard on for disrespecting asians as well as blacks.
Old jewish pervert industry. Fuck Hollywood
I can listen to Migos and Gucci say nigga 100x a song and pay them for it at a concert. I don't want to see a bunch of white guys randomly talking down about black people and calling them ******* at a diner table, and then every CAC saying its an awesome scene with 10 white dudes sit at a diner and it last for 20 minutes while they plan a robbery and casually talk about ****** this and ****** that.
Hollywood has a hard on for disrespecting asians as well as blacks.
Old jewish pervert industry. Fuck Hollywood
China delays release of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood
Bruce Lee's daughter has reportedly objected to her father's depiction in Quentin Tarantino's film.
By Clark Collis
October 18, 2019 at 02:09 PM EDT
FBTwitterMore
The Chinese release of director Quentin Tarantino‘s Once Upon a Time in Hollywood has been put on hold because of the film’s portrayal of Bruce Lee, according to THR, which first reported the news. In the movie, Lee (Mike Moh) is shown boasting that he could defeat Cassius Clay (a.k.a. Muhammad Ali) in a fight and is subsequently bested in a physical contest by the Brad Pitt-played stuntman, Cliff Booth.
The movie’s release has been “indefinitely put on hold,” according to sources speaking to THR, because Lee’s daughter Shannon filed a complaint to China’s National Film Administration about the onscreen depiction of her late father. Speaking to Variety, one exhibitor source said “As long as Quentin can make some cuts, it will be released as planned.”
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was set for an Oct. 25 debut in Chinese cinemas. The film also stars Leonardo DiCaprio as fictional actor Rick Dalton and Margot Robbie as the real-life actress, Sharon Tate.
Bruce Lee's daughter has reportedly objected to her father's depiction in Quentin Tarantino's film.
By Clark Collis
October 18, 2019 at 02:09 PM EDT
FBTwitterMore
The Chinese release of director Quentin Tarantino‘s Once Upon a Time in Hollywood has been put on hold because of the film’s portrayal of Bruce Lee, according to THR, which first reported the news. In the movie, Lee (Mike Moh) is shown boasting that he could defeat Cassius Clay (a.k.a. Muhammad Ali) in a fight and is subsequently bested in a physical contest by the Brad Pitt-played stuntman, Cliff Booth.
The movie’s release has been “indefinitely put on hold,” according to sources speaking to THR, because Lee’s daughter Shannon filed a complaint to China’s National Film Administration about the onscreen depiction of her late father. Speaking to Variety, one exhibitor source said “As long as Quentin can make some cuts, it will be released as planned.”
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was set for an Oct. 25 debut in Chinese cinemas. The film also stars Leonardo DiCaprio as fictional actor Rick Dalton and Margot Robbie as the real-life actress, Sharon Tate.
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