Netflix: Luke Cage Season 2 (Discussion Thread) - Spoilers Approved (Update Cancelled!!)
- Thread starter fonzerrillii
- Start date
Personally, I do not think any of these cancelled shows will be coming back on Disney's upcoming streaming service. 
Because Disney content caters to G, PG and PG-13 audiences.
And Luke Cage doesn't fit into those 'family friendly' categories, because it has too much cussing, too much violence, blood, sex & adult themes. (and too much usage of the word "nigga".)
And Daredevil & The Punisher are EVEN WORSE when it comes to blood & violence.
If they get cancelled soon also... I don't see them getting picked up by Disney either.
In order to add a show like Luke Cage (or Daredevil, or The Punisher) into their upcoming digital platform... Disney would have to create a whole section of the Streaming Service called "Disney for Adults", or some shit... but that goes completely against their whole (current) business model.
Because Disney content caters to G, PG and PG-13 audiences.
And Luke Cage doesn't fit into those 'family friendly' categories, because it has too much cussing, too much violence, blood, sex & adult themes. (and too much usage of the word "nigga".)
And Daredevil & The Punisher are EVEN WORSE when it comes to blood & violence.
If they get cancelled soon also... I don't see them getting picked up by Disney either.
In order to add a show like Luke Cage (or Daredevil, or The Punisher) into their upcoming digital platform... Disney would have to create a whole section of the Streaming Service called "Disney for Adults", or some shit... but that goes completely against their whole (current) business model.
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Upsetting
I hope this is just a move to port the show over to Disney streaming service.
Where Do the Luke Cage and Iron Fist Cancellations Leave Marvel and Netflix?
By Abraham Riesman@abrahamjoseph
Photo: Courtesy of Netflix
We don’t know, nor are we likely ever to know, the full story behind why Netflix chose to cancel Marvel’s Iron Fist and Luke Cage. The streamer is an infamously opaque mystery box that releases no data on viewership and is astoundingly tight-lipped with reporters. The Hollywood Reporter has a source who said the Luke Cage axing was the result of “creative differences and the inability to agree to terms for a third season of the show,” but that’s one anonymous person, so who knows? With Iron Fist, we have an even more glaring paucity of information. That show got ripped apart by criticsand never shook the early bad buzz about its casting of a white dude as a martial-arts master, so one assumes that the ratings just weren’t there for season two, but who can really say? It’s astoundingly hard to get anyone involved to talk, even off the record, because the NDAs and surveillance involved in working on a Marvel project are nigh totalitarian.
But even if we can’t figure out the reasoning behind these abrupt disappearances (both within a few days of the unveiling of a new Marvel Netflix season, Daredevil’s third — the Cage news came on release day!), we can still survey the landscape that they leave behind. The cancellations leave us with a Marvel Netflix slate devoid of clean-living, respectable protagonists. What remains, for better or worse, are the bastards.
Here are the Marvel Netflix shows that are still on the docket: Jessica Jones, The Punisher,and Daredevil. (Crossover team-up series The Defenders has also gone the way of the dodo, but as Krysten Ritter told me last year, there might never have been a plan for more than one season of it.) Let’s go through their respective lead heroes, shall we? Jessica, God bless her, is an asshole and a drunk, congenitally incapable of getting her act together or not alienating everyone around her. The Punisher is, well, the freaking Punisher: Whatever the righteousness of his cause might be, his bloodlust and amoral leanings make him the image you put next to the dictionary definition of “anti-hero.” Even Daredevil, devoted Catholic that he may be, is a prideful nightmare of a friend who has way too much fun beating the hell out of people.
respectability politics. Although the second season of his show tried to present him as a guy struggling with anger management and left him off having made a devil’s bargain to become a crime lord, there was something that always rang false whenever showrunner Cheo Hodari Coker tried to make him seem morally questionable. Perhaps it’s just the way actor Mike Colter oozes decency, but one always felt that the Hero for Hire was an honest man doing the best he could. And as for Danny Rand, the Immortal Iron Fist: Holy schnikes was that guy a goody two-shoes or what? His whole deal was his status as a naïf, raised on a steady diet of monastic lessons about virtue and separated from the corrupting influences of the outside world. Sure, he could be irritating, but part of the irritation was his constant effort to do right by the world and be a nice guy while doing it.
Now, both of those figures are bereft of their own shows. Marvel has emphasized that their stories can still go on in other forms, which makes cameos in future seasons of the surviving Netflix shows a probability. But the stories they’d be intruding upon are ones that err on the grim-and-gritty side. It’s somewhat disheartening, to be honest. Even if you were never that much of a fan of Cage or Fist, their loss means that Marvel’s Netflix projects will, for the time being, probably be an enterprise where “maturity” is defined by how dark you can go and how far you can push your characters toward unforgivable acts of violence. It’s a problem that superhero comics have periodically run into, and it’s always frustrating to see that sludginess become predominant.
It’s also a problem that Marvel’s eternal rival, DC, has faced in the construction of its movie universe. Man of Steel, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice,and Suicide Squad were all lambasted for being excessively cynical about (super)human nature and left the DC brand with a reputation for going too hard on the brooding and not hard enough on the laughs. Ironically, Marvel has been the alternative to that approach when it comes to the Cineplex, offering up Marvel Cinematic Universe movies that shine with a sometimes-cloying optimism and protagonists to whom you want to give a big ol’ hug. Are we now looking at a fully DC-ified Marvel operation on Netflix?
If so, that would make the TV situation a bizarre counterpoint to the film one, in that DC has generally been sunny in its offerings on the CW: Supergirl, The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow,and the like. Arrow can get a bit broody, but the schmaltz and quirk quotients are still high; same goes for Black Lightning. The one big exception to that rule is Titans, the new DC series available only on a branded DC app, which is bleak and horrifying enough to make The Punisher look like The Great British Baking Show. But for now, its relegation to the walled garden of a streaming platform makes it a minor factor in the overall DC brand.
Speaking of streaming: The elephant in the room is the fact that Disney plans to roll out its own service to compete with Netflix in the not-too-distant future. One has to imagine that was a factor in Netflix’s decisions to part ways with Marvel on Cage and Fist. Viewership may have been low, creative differences may have been had, but if Netflix felt true ownership over the shows, it might have had a higher tolerance for such hiccups. As it stands, however, Marvel has a foot out the door already. I have no idea if that fact has caused strains in the Marvel/Netflix relationship, but I can’t imagine that it helped make the case for keeping the shows on the digital air.
The real question is what happens once this much-discussed Disney video platform launches. Presumably, the House of Mouse will want to cram as much original Marvel content into it as is feasible, what with that being one of its primary cash cows and all. That could lead to an interesting situation, in that the platform will reportedly host shows featuring MCU movie talentand that are helmed by Marvel Studios — the movie division — rather than Marvel Television, which handles the Netflix offerings (as well as Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Runaways, and Cloak & Dagger). Could Cage or Fist be rebooted there? Or maybe refashioned along the lines of the comics adventures of their protagonists, thus giving way to a Luke/Danny Power Man and Iron Fist show or a team-up between Cage’s Misty Knight and Fist’s Colleen Wing in the form of Daughters of the Dragon? One hopes so, in the name of diversity. There’s the diversity of ethnicity, of course: Everyone except Danny in that quadruplet is a person of color, while the prime players in the remaining Marvel Netflix shows are almost entirely white. But there’s also the diversity of tone. Until this mythical digital beast launches, Marvel’s streaming offerings will be a pouty lot, indeed.
By Abraham Riesman@abrahamjoseph
Photo: Courtesy of Netflix
We don’t know, nor are we likely ever to know, the full story behind why Netflix chose to cancel Marvel’s Iron Fist and Luke Cage. The streamer is an infamously opaque mystery box that releases no data on viewership and is astoundingly tight-lipped with reporters. The Hollywood Reporter has a source who said the Luke Cage axing was the result of “creative differences and the inability to agree to terms for a third season of the show,” but that’s one anonymous person, so who knows? With Iron Fist, we have an even more glaring paucity of information. That show got ripped apart by criticsand never shook the early bad buzz about its casting of a white dude as a martial-arts master, so one assumes that the ratings just weren’t there for season two, but who can really say? It’s astoundingly hard to get anyone involved to talk, even off the record, because the NDAs and surveillance involved in working on a Marvel project are nigh totalitarian.
But even if we can’t figure out the reasoning behind these abrupt disappearances (both within a few days of the unveiling of a new Marvel Netflix season, Daredevil’s third — the Cage news came on release day!), we can still survey the landscape that they leave behind. The cancellations leave us with a Marvel Netflix slate devoid of clean-living, respectable protagonists. What remains, for better or worse, are the bastards.
Here are the Marvel Netflix shows that are still on the docket: Jessica Jones, The Punisher,and Daredevil. (Crossover team-up series The Defenders has also gone the way of the dodo, but as Krysten Ritter told me last year, there might never have been a plan for more than one season of it.) Let’s go through their respective lead heroes, shall we? Jessica, God bless her, is an asshole and a drunk, congenitally incapable of getting her act together or not alienating everyone around her. The Punisher is, well, the freaking Punisher: Whatever the righteousness of his cause might be, his bloodlust and amoral leanings make him the image you put next to the dictionary definition of “anti-hero.” Even Daredevil, devoted Catholic that he may be, is a prideful nightmare of a friend who has way too much fun beating the hell out of people.
respectability politics. Although the second season of his show tried to present him as a guy struggling with anger management and left him off having made a devil’s bargain to become a crime lord, there was something that always rang false whenever showrunner Cheo Hodari Coker tried to make him seem morally questionable. Perhaps it’s just the way actor Mike Colter oozes decency, but one always felt that the Hero for Hire was an honest man doing the best he could. And as for Danny Rand, the Immortal Iron Fist: Holy schnikes was that guy a goody two-shoes or what? His whole deal was his status as a naïf, raised on a steady diet of monastic lessons about virtue and separated from the corrupting influences of the outside world. Sure, he could be irritating, but part of the irritation was his constant effort to do right by the world and be a nice guy while doing it.
Now, both of those figures are bereft of their own shows. Marvel has emphasized that their stories can still go on in other forms, which makes cameos in future seasons of the surviving Netflix shows a probability. But the stories they’d be intruding upon are ones that err on the grim-and-gritty side. It’s somewhat disheartening, to be honest. Even if you were never that much of a fan of Cage or Fist, their loss means that Marvel’s Netflix projects will, for the time being, probably be an enterprise where “maturity” is defined by how dark you can go and how far you can push your characters toward unforgivable acts of violence. It’s a problem that superhero comics have periodically run into, and it’s always frustrating to see that sludginess become predominant.
It’s also a problem that Marvel’s eternal rival, DC, has faced in the construction of its movie universe. Man of Steel, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice,and Suicide Squad were all lambasted for being excessively cynical about (super)human nature and left the DC brand with a reputation for going too hard on the brooding and not hard enough on the laughs. Ironically, Marvel has been the alternative to that approach when it comes to the Cineplex, offering up Marvel Cinematic Universe movies that shine with a sometimes-cloying optimism and protagonists to whom you want to give a big ol’ hug. Are we now looking at a fully DC-ified Marvel operation on Netflix?
If so, that would make the TV situation a bizarre counterpoint to the film one, in that DC has generally been sunny in its offerings on the CW: Supergirl, The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow,and the like. Arrow can get a bit broody, but the schmaltz and quirk quotients are still high; same goes for Black Lightning. The one big exception to that rule is Titans, the new DC series available only on a branded DC app, which is bleak and horrifying enough to make The Punisher look like The Great British Baking Show. But for now, its relegation to the walled garden of a streaming platform makes it a minor factor in the overall DC brand.
Speaking of streaming: The elephant in the room is the fact that Disney plans to roll out its own service to compete with Netflix in the not-too-distant future. One has to imagine that was a factor in Netflix’s decisions to part ways with Marvel on Cage and Fist. Viewership may have been low, creative differences may have been had, but if Netflix felt true ownership over the shows, it might have had a higher tolerance for such hiccups. As it stands, however, Marvel has a foot out the door already. I have no idea if that fact has caused strains in the Marvel/Netflix relationship, but I can’t imagine that it helped make the case for keeping the shows on the digital air.
The real question is what happens once this much-discussed Disney video platform launches. Presumably, the House of Mouse will want to cram as much original Marvel content into it as is feasible, what with that being one of its primary cash cows and all. That could lead to an interesting situation, in that the platform will reportedly host shows featuring MCU movie talentand that are helmed by Marvel Studios — the movie division — rather than Marvel Television, which handles the Netflix offerings (as well as Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Runaways, and Cloak & Dagger). Could Cage or Fist be rebooted there? Or maybe refashioned along the lines of the comics adventures of their protagonists, thus giving way to a Luke/Danny Power Man and Iron Fist show or a team-up between Cage’s Misty Knight and Fist’s Colleen Wing in the form of Daughters of the Dragon? One hopes so, in the name of diversity. There’s the diversity of ethnicity, of course: Everyone except Danny in that quadruplet is a person of color, while the prime players in the remaining Marvel Netflix shows are almost entirely white. But there’s also the diversity of tone. Until this mythical digital beast launches, Marvel’s streaming offerings will be a pouty lot, indeed.
So, what's the cliff note version?
Just found out.... Yeah 2nd season wasnt great, bit it was still pretty damn good....
Hopefully thos sets up the Iron Fist team up, not that I liked IF, but I hate to see Mike out of a job.
Question for the fam.... If Lewis Tam(sp?) was Iron Fist, do you think any of this would be happening?
Hopefully thos sets up the Iron Fist team up, not that I liked IF, but I hate to see Mike out of a job.
Question for the fam.... If Lewis Tam(sp?) was Iron Fist, do you think any of this would be happening?
As long as Scott Buck was showrunner for IF S1 was bound to fail no matter who was cast...
Not familiar with him, what's the issue?
that show-runner KILLED Iron Fist from the get go...aint he do Inhumans too?
He's notoriously known as a show killer. He finishes them on time and under budget... execs love him ...
He killed Dexter final season, Inhumans only season and Iron Fist S1...
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Was surprised to hear this about Cage. Sweet Christmas. Netflix ain't shit. Fuck yall. Jessica Jones
Yup, he also fucked up Dexter. Scott Buck was show runner of Dexter for seasons 6-8 and the ending was one of the worst in TV history.
Another Marvel/Dexter connection, Melissa Resenberg, show runner of Jessica Jones, is one of the 3 executive producers for Dexter's first 4 seasons.
Ahh, I didn't realize it was that guy. In that case iron fist season 1 may have been some of his best work lol.
Personally, I do not think any of these cancelled shows will be coming back on Disney's upcoming streaming service.
Because Disney content caters to G, PG and PG-13 audiences.
And Luke Cage doesn't fit into those 'family friendly' categories, because it has too much cussing, too much violence, blood, sex & adult themes. (and too much usage of the word "nigga".)
And Daredevil & The Punisher are EVEN WORSE when it comes to blood & violence.
If they get cancelled soon also... I don't see them getting picked up by Disney either.
In order to add a show like Luke Cage (or Daredevil, or The Punisher) into their upcoming digital platform... Disney would have to create a whole section of the Streaming Service called "Disney for Adults", or some shit... but that goes completely against their whole (current) business model.
But Disney Land/World have sections for adults. I can see these shows going over to their streaming services. DC launched it's service and their Titan show is adult themed. I just see Marvel/Disney leaving A LOT of money on the table if they keep their service PG-13 and under. Or MarvEl launches a separate service within the Disney infrastructure.
Point taken.
To avoid leaving money on the table... Disney will probably use Hulu, I guess.
Luke Cage & Iron Fist are both rated TV-MA... which is equivalent to content in an R-rated film. These Marvel/Netflix shows (ie Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, The Punisher & The Defenders) all contain graphic violence, strong language, and some sex & nudity. These show are intended for an "adult only" audience.
When Disney first announced their plans for creating their own Streaming Service, they said it would not include any R-Rated Movies/Content.
And The New York Times reported a few months ago (back in August 2018) that Disney will instead focus on producing content exclusively aimed at families, without the inclusion of mature shows and movies.
https://goo.gl/NeCakm
https://goo.gl/9FSXkM
This past summer, Disney acquired 21st Century Fox's Movie and TV studios... which included Fox's 30% percent stake in the Hulu streaming service.
So Disney now owns 60% of Hulu, Comcast owns 30%, and AT&T owns 10%.
Since Disney owns the 'majority stake' in Hulu... I think they will most likely steer adults toward the Hulu platform
for all the TV-MA / and R-Rated content that is geared for 'mature audiences'. (Which will also include R-Rated movies from 20th Century Fox's archives)Unless Disney creates something entirely new (specifically for adults).
now that is GREAT info!
WTF
Charlemagne talking about?
Personally, I do not think any of these cancelled shows will be coming back on Disney's upcoming streaming service.
Because Disney content caters to G, PG and PG-13 audiences.
And Luke Cage doesn't fit into those 'family friendly' categories, because it has too much cussing, too much violence, blood, sex & adult themes. (and too much usage of the word "nigga".)
And Daredevil & The Punisher are EVEN WORSE when it comes to blood & violence.
If they get cancelled soon also... I don't see them getting picked up by Disney either.
In order to add a show like Luke Cage (or Daredevil, or The Punisher) into their upcoming digital platform... Disney would have to create a whole section of the Streaming Service called "Disney for Adults", or some shit... but that goes completely against their whole (current) business model.
damn
you make a great point....
HOWEVER
almost ALL the FOX properties are PG and up
even animated content
and Avengers and Agents of SHIELD and Once Upon a Time...
X-Files etc...
I think it will be fine.
EW ranks Every Marvel-Netflix season...wait till you see number 1
EW’s Chancellor Agard and Christian Holub have watched every single Marvel/Netflix superhero series, and recappedmost of them. Now, in the wake of Daredevil’s stellar third season and the cancellations of Iron Fist and Luke Cage, they present their ranking of every season so far.
https://www.bgol.us/forum/threads/p...ix-season-wait-till-you-see-number-1.1024144/
EXCLUSIVE: Iron Fist & Luke Cage Cancellation Reason Revealed By Netflix Viewer Data
Netflix viewing figures provided exclusively to Screen Rant have explained just why the streaming service canceled Iron Fist and Luke Cage. The recent high-profile cancellations left Marvel fans shocked, not least because Netflix pulled the plug on Iron Fist just a month after the release of a much-improved season 2. No reason for the cancellations has ever been officially presented; it's generally believed Iron Fist was canceled because of poor viewing figures, while there are reports of behind-the-scenes conflict between Marvel and Netflix over Luke Cage.
Screen Rant has spoken exclusively to Jumpshot, a San Francisco-based analytics company. Their anonymized global panel tracks five billion actions a day across 100 million devices to deliver insights into online consumer behavior. Jumpshot has looked at the viewing behavior and activity of their US members in order to get a sense of just how the Netflix Originals are performing. There are limitations to this data - it's US-specific and based on clicks rather than viewing habits - but given Netflix's secrecy over ratings, it's probably the best indication available of how viewers are responding to the Marvel shows.
Related: What Luke Cage & Iron Fist Seasons 3 Would Have Been About
According to Jumpshot, both Iron Fist and Luke Cage lost two-thirds of their viewers between their first and second seasons. Compared to their first seasons, Luke Cage lost 59 percent of its viewers, while Iron Fist lost 64 percent. Jumpshothas provided an index indicating how the different Marvel Netflix shows performed in their first weeks, compared against Daredevil season 2 (the first series they measured). Here's how Iron Fist and Luke Cage look:
These figures give a sense of the sheer scale of the drop in viewership. In the case of Luke Cage, they explain reports that Netflix wanted to renegotiate their deal with Marvel and book a 10-episode series rather than the normal 13 episodes; these shows are expensive, even allowing for New York's generous tax breaks, and the show wasn't getting enough viewers to make a 13-episode series worthwhile. Meanwhile, Iron Fist's cancellation is even easier to understand; although season 2 was praised by viewers and critics alike for having redeemed the character of Danny Rand, it looks as though people just didn't choose to watch it. According to Jumpshot's data, viewership for Iron Fist took less than a month to drop back to baseline levels. That certainly explains the speed with which Netflix canceled the series.
This data is the first solid hint that the partnership between Marvel and Netflix may not be quite so productive as had previously been believed. But is the issue specific to Iron Fist and Luke Cage, or does it affect the entire Marvel Netflix slate? Jumpshot has provided Screen Rant with more exclusive information on all the Marvel Netflix shows, that we'll be exploring in detail over the coming days.
@ansatsusha_gouki
@ViCiouS
@largebillsonlyplease
@fonzerrillii
ain't it SUSPICIOUS these numbers leaking ALL OF SUDDEN? when they used to keep these things locked up like Fort Knox?
- BY THOMAS BACON
- – ON OCT 31, 2018
- IN SR ORIGINALS
Netflix viewing figures provided exclusively to Screen Rant have explained just why the streaming service canceled Iron Fist and Luke Cage. The recent high-profile cancellations left Marvel fans shocked, not least because Netflix pulled the plug on Iron Fist just a month after the release of a much-improved season 2. No reason for the cancellations has ever been officially presented; it's generally believed Iron Fist was canceled because of poor viewing figures, while there are reports of behind-the-scenes conflict between Marvel and Netflix over Luke Cage.
Screen Rant has spoken exclusively to Jumpshot, a San Francisco-based analytics company. Their anonymized global panel tracks five billion actions a day across 100 million devices to deliver insights into online consumer behavior. Jumpshot has looked at the viewing behavior and activity of their US members in order to get a sense of just how the Netflix Originals are performing. There are limitations to this data - it's US-specific and based on clicks rather than viewing habits - but given Netflix's secrecy over ratings, it's probably the best indication available of how viewers are responding to the Marvel shows.
Related: What Luke Cage & Iron Fist Seasons 3 Would Have Been About
According to Jumpshot, both Iron Fist and Luke Cage lost two-thirds of their viewers between their first and second seasons. Compared to their first seasons, Luke Cage lost 59 percent of its viewers, while Iron Fist lost 64 percent. Jumpshothas provided an index indicating how the different Marvel Netflix shows performed in their first weeks, compared against Daredevil season 2 (the first series they measured). Here's how Iron Fist and Luke Cage look:
- Daredevil season 2: 100
- Luke Cage season 1: 92
- Iron Fist season 1: 80
- Luke Cage season 2: 38
- Iron Fist season 2: 29
These figures give a sense of the sheer scale of the drop in viewership. In the case of Luke Cage, they explain reports that Netflix wanted to renegotiate their deal with Marvel and book a 10-episode series rather than the normal 13 episodes; these shows are expensive, even allowing for New York's generous tax breaks, and the show wasn't getting enough viewers to make a 13-episode series worthwhile. Meanwhile, Iron Fist's cancellation is even easier to understand; although season 2 was praised by viewers and critics alike for having redeemed the character of Danny Rand, it looks as though people just didn't choose to watch it. According to Jumpshot's data, viewership for Iron Fist took less than a month to drop back to baseline levels. That certainly explains the speed with which Netflix canceled the series.
This data is the first solid hint that the partnership between Marvel and Netflix may not be quite so productive as had previously been believed. But is the issue specific to Iron Fist and Luke Cage, or does it affect the entire Marvel Netflix slate? Jumpshot has provided Screen Rant with more exclusive information on all the Marvel Netflix shows, that we'll be exploring in detail over the coming days.
@ansatsusha_gouki
@ViCiouS
@largebillsonlyplease
@fonzerrillii
ain't it SUSPICIOUS these numbers leaking ALL OF SUDDEN? when they used to keep these things locked up like Fort Knox?
What Luke Cage & Iron Fist Seasons 3 Would Have Been About
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What would have happened in the now-cancelled third seasons of Luke Cage and Iron Fist? October has been a difficult month for fans of the popular Marvel Netflix shows. On the one hand, the eagerly-anticipated Daredevil season 3 has finally released, to popular and critical acclaim. Unfortunately, this was against the backdrop of two major cancellations, with Netflix bringing both Iron Fist and Luke Cage to an end after two seasons.
The reasons for the cancellations are believed to have been slightly different. In the case of Iron Fist, it's generally believed that the show never recovered from a critically-panned first season, in spite of the best efforts of new showrunner Raven Metzner. In contrast, there have been reports that talks on Luke Cage season 3 went to the wire, with reports of "creative differences" between Marvel and Netflix. The streaming service apparently wasn't comfortable with the direction Marvel intended to take the series, and they wanted a shorter 10-episode series than Marvel was prepared to make.
Related: Why Luke Cage & Iron Fist Won't Go To Disney Play
It's possible that Luke Cage and Iron Fist will be replaced by team-up showslike Daughters of the Dragon and Heroes for Hire. By now, though, it's quite clear that this wasn't the original plan. Key members of the cast, and even the two showrunners, have taken to social media to thank their fans for following them, and there's a definite sense of sorrow to their comments. Daredevil showrunner Erik Oleson, a close friend of Metzner's, gave a sense of just how difficult a time it's been for the Marvel teams. "The Marvel shows are a family," he explained. "I took Raven out for drinks on Saturday night and we commiserated. It was heartbreaking news."
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So what were Marvel's plans for Luke Cage and Iron Fist seasons 3? This article will look at the ideas set up in the shows, and the (sparse) comic book precedents, and attempt to deduce what was going to happen.
Luke Cage season 2 ended with a whole new status quo for Harlem's Hero. He'd inherited Harlem's Paradise, and had concluded he could do more good for his neighborhood as a crime boss who was attempting to keep the peace. It's an approach Luke has never taken in the comics, which makes it pretty difficult to guess where showrunner Cheo Hodari Coker was planning to take the series. The only solid hint has been given by Mike Colter, who described something of a "fall from grace" arc:
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"I think the plan for season 3 is to explore Luke's ability to govern and be fair. At the end, we talk about there being a new sheriff in town, a new king in Harlem. We're going to see how he deals with this power, because we know absolute power can corrupt absolutely. And sometimes when you don't have someone checking you, someone to put you in place, someone to tell you 'you can't do that,' we sometimes get out of control. We see that everywhere."
Part of this involves the fact that Luke's old friendships and relationships are breaking down. Although Rosario Dawson was willing to reprise the role of Claire Temple, Luke's lover and moral conscience, she stressed that it may not be possible due to personal commitments. "My daughter is in high school," Dawson pointed out, "so I kinda wanna not be 3,000 miles away for work." Meanwhile, Luke's new role as a crime boss will inevitably cause conflict with Misty Knight, who's been offered a promotion and would be in charge of bringing an end to Luke's burgeoning criminal empire. Season 2 ended with Luke alone in his office, signifying that he'd lost everyone and everything that could keep him on the straight and narrow.
Dialogue in Iron Fist season 2 strongly suggested that Misty would call in her friend Colleen Wing to help against Luke. Colleen has become New York's new Iron Fist, and she could well be the key to stopping Luke. After all, as Misty noted, Colleen now has "one of the few weapons that might make a dent in that man." A flash-forward scene at the end of Iron Fist season 2 suggested that Colleen will learn how to channel her Chi through other weapons, most notably her katana, and that's an absolute game-changer. The Defenders already confirmed that a punch thrown with the power of the Iron Fist can knock Luke Cage down; that means, in theory, that Colleen's sword can be used to cut him too. Making matters worse, Luke wouldn't necessarily find out that Colleen was a threat to him until she was ready to take him on. It's important not to overemphasize Colleen's importance to the plot, though; Marvel would have been hoping she'd be needed for both Luke Cage and Iron Fist seasons 3, so scheduling alone would have meant she had a limited role in Luke Cage.
The arc sounds vaguely similar to that of the Shadowland event, a comic book miniseries that saw Daredevil make the same kind of mistakes Luke is guaranteed to make. At the same time, though, it's likely the resolution would have been slightly different; rather than seeing Luke beaten by his friends, it would have probably involved him realizing what he was becoming, presumably after making a big mistake. There would be a certain poetry if Luke Cage season 3 were to end with Harlem's "bulletproof black guy" going back to jail, but this time for crimes he really did commit.
WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN IRON FIST SEASON 3?
Iron Fist season 3 would probably have had a different focus; the mythology of the Iron Fist. It would have divided its time between Danny Rand's quest in Asia and Colleen Wing's new career as the Iron Fist of New York, but a single thread of discovery would clearly weave between the different plots. After all, the flash-forward scene reveals that Danny Rand will somehow become a second Iron Fist, and that both he and Colleen will learn to channel their Chi through weapons like guns or blades. It may be that Danny even discovers another dragon, explaining how he gets his powers back. It's uncertain whether or not Marvel would take that approach, though, given Netflix budgets didn't exactly make for a strong Shou-Lao in Iron Fist season 1.
The "months later" scene name-dropped a major figure from Iron Fist mythology, Orson Randall. In the comics, Randall was Danny's predecessor as the Iron Fist, who abandoned his duties and faked his own death. Randall is a fairly recent addition to the Iron Fist mythology, created by Ed Brubaker and David Aja back in 2013. It was Randall who told Danny about the existence of the Seven Capital Cities of Heaven, introducing the concept of the Immortal Weapons, the cities' sacred defenders. His signature move was channeling his Chi through guns - the very skill Danny seems destined to pick up.
Meanwhile, another aspect of the plot would probably have involved Colleen learning her family history. Iron Fist season 2 suggested that she was descended from Wu Ao-Shi, the "Pirate Queen of Pinghai Bay," the first female Iron Fist. It's likely that, at first, Colleen will attempt to use the Iron Fist in a diplomatic way, attempting to keep the peace between the different gangs. Little by little, though, she'll wind up taking to the streets as a vigilante. Interestingly enough, there was actually no reason for Colleen to channel her Chi in that scene set "months later," so it may be she'll find the power of the Iron Fist every bit as addictive as Danny did. It could be that Danny's quest ultimately unlocks the secret of truly mastering the Iron Fist, rather than forever struggling to avoid being mastered by it.
One final plot thread was surely intended to be a key part of Iron Fist season 3: Typhoid Mary's third personality. Season 2 teased that a third personality was buried deep within Mary Walker's psyche, a brutal and bloody killer. In the comics, that third personality is the misandrist Bloody Mary, and she's the most terrifying and dangerous of all Mary's alters. At the same time, though, Marvel may well have decided to hold off on that plot for another show; the character is usually associated with Daredevil, and it would definitely be thrilling to see Alice Eve's Typhoid Mary go up against Charlie Cox's Daredevil.
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With Iron Fist and Luke Cage sadly canceled, what's next for the two heroes? There's a lot of speculation that Marvel and Netflix will pivot to two spinoffs, Daughters of the Dragon and Heroes for Hire. Luke Cage could potentially even be the villain in Daughters of the Dragon, which would focus on Misty and Colleen; he'd then transition over to Heroes for Hire for a redemption arc, teaming up with Danny Rand.
At the moment, though, that's just speculation. Whatever Marvel insiders may say, there's no guarantee will sign up to this approach. For now, there's a real danger that the stories of Luke Cage and Danny Rand - and, indeed, their tremendous supporting characters - will be left incomplete.
- BY THOMAS BACON
- – ON OCT 28, 2018
- IN SR ORIGINALS
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What would have happened in the now-cancelled third seasons of Luke Cage and Iron Fist? October has been a difficult month for fans of the popular Marvel Netflix shows. On the one hand, the eagerly-anticipated Daredevil season 3 has finally released, to popular and critical acclaim. Unfortunately, this was against the backdrop of two major cancellations, with Netflix bringing both Iron Fist and Luke Cage to an end after two seasons.
The reasons for the cancellations are believed to have been slightly different. In the case of Iron Fist, it's generally believed that the show never recovered from a critically-panned first season, in spite of the best efforts of new showrunner Raven Metzner. In contrast, there have been reports that talks on Luke Cage season 3 went to the wire, with reports of "creative differences" between Marvel and Netflix. The streaming service apparently wasn't comfortable with the direction Marvel intended to take the series, and they wanted a shorter 10-episode series than Marvel was prepared to make.
Related: Why Luke Cage & Iron Fist Won't Go To Disney Play
It's possible that Luke Cage and Iron Fist will be replaced by team-up showslike Daughters of the Dragon and Heroes for Hire. By now, though, it's quite clear that this wasn't the original plan. Key members of the cast, and even the two showrunners, have taken to social media to thank their fans for following them, and there's a definite sense of sorrow to their comments. Daredevil showrunner Erik Oleson, a close friend of Metzner's, gave a sense of just how difficult a time it's been for the Marvel teams. "The Marvel shows are a family," he explained. "I took Raven out for drinks on Saturday night and we commiserated. It was heartbreaking news."
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So what were Marvel's plans for Luke Cage and Iron Fist seasons 3? This article will look at the ideas set up in the shows, and the (sparse) comic book precedents, and attempt to deduce what was going to happen.
- This Page: What Would Have Happened In Luke Cage Season 3?
- Next Page: What Would Have Happened In Iron Fist Season 3?
Luke Cage season 2 ended with a whole new status quo for Harlem's Hero. He'd inherited Harlem's Paradise, and had concluded he could do more good for his neighborhood as a crime boss who was attempting to keep the peace. It's an approach Luke has never taken in the comics, which makes it pretty difficult to guess where showrunner Cheo Hodari Coker was planning to take the series. The only solid hint has been given by Mike Colter, who described something of a "fall from grace" arc:
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"I think the plan for season 3 is to explore Luke's ability to govern and be fair. At the end, we talk about there being a new sheriff in town, a new king in Harlem. We're going to see how he deals with this power, because we know absolute power can corrupt absolutely. And sometimes when you don't have someone checking you, someone to put you in place, someone to tell you 'you can't do that,' we sometimes get out of control. We see that everywhere."
Part of this involves the fact that Luke's old friendships and relationships are breaking down. Although Rosario Dawson was willing to reprise the role of Claire Temple, Luke's lover and moral conscience, she stressed that it may not be possible due to personal commitments. "My daughter is in high school," Dawson pointed out, "so I kinda wanna not be 3,000 miles away for work." Meanwhile, Luke's new role as a crime boss will inevitably cause conflict with Misty Knight, who's been offered a promotion and would be in charge of bringing an end to Luke's burgeoning criminal empire. Season 2 ended with Luke alone in his office, signifying that he'd lost everyone and everything that could keep him on the straight and narrow.
Dialogue in Iron Fist season 2 strongly suggested that Misty would call in her friend Colleen Wing to help against Luke. Colleen has become New York's new Iron Fist, and she could well be the key to stopping Luke. After all, as Misty noted, Colleen now has "one of the few weapons that might make a dent in that man." A flash-forward scene at the end of Iron Fist season 2 suggested that Colleen will learn how to channel her Chi through other weapons, most notably her katana, and that's an absolute game-changer. The Defenders already confirmed that a punch thrown with the power of the Iron Fist can knock Luke Cage down; that means, in theory, that Colleen's sword can be used to cut him too. Making matters worse, Luke wouldn't necessarily find out that Colleen was a threat to him until she was ready to take him on. It's important not to overemphasize Colleen's importance to the plot, though; Marvel would have been hoping she'd be needed for both Luke Cage and Iron Fist seasons 3, so scheduling alone would have meant she had a limited role in Luke Cage.
The arc sounds vaguely similar to that of the Shadowland event, a comic book miniseries that saw Daredevil make the same kind of mistakes Luke is guaranteed to make. At the same time, though, it's likely the resolution would have been slightly different; rather than seeing Luke beaten by his friends, it would have probably involved him realizing what he was becoming, presumably after making a big mistake. There would be a certain poetry if Luke Cage season 3 were to end with Harlem's "bulletproof black guy" going back to jail, but this time for crimes he really did commit.
WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN IRON FIST SEASON 3?
Iron Fist season 3 would probably have had a different focus; the mythology of the Iron Fist. It would have divided its time between Danny Rand's quest in Asia and Colleen Wing's new career as the Iron Fist of New York, but a single thread of discovery would clearly weave between the different plots. After all, the flash-forward scene reveals that Danny Rand will somehow become a second Iron Fist, and that both he and Colleen will learn to channel their Chi through weapons like guns or blades. It may be that Danny even discovers another dragon, explaining how he gets his powers back. It's uncertain whether or not Marvel would take that approach, though, given Netflix budgets didn't exactly make for a strong Shou-Lao in Iron Fist season 1.
The "months later" scene name-dropped a major figure from Iron Fist mythology, Orson Randall. In the comics, Randall was Danny's predecessor as the Iron Fist, who abandoned his duties and faked his own death. Randall is a fairly recent addition to the Iron Fist mythology, created by Ed Brubaker and David Aja back in 2013. It was Randall who told Danny about the existence of the Seven Capital Cities of Heaven, introducing the concept of the Immortal Weapons, the cities' sacred defenders. His signature move was channeling his Chi through guns - the very skill Danny seems destined to pick up.
Meanwhile, another aspect of the plot would probably have involved Colleen learning her family history. Iron Fist season 2 suggested that she was descended from Wu Ao-Shi, the "Pirate Queen of Pinghai Bay," the first female Iron Fist. It's likely that, at first, Colleen will attempt to use the Iron Fist in a diplomatic way, attempting to keep the peace between the different gangs. Little by little, though, she'll wind up taking to the streets as a vigilante. Interestingly enough, there was actually no reason for Colleen to channel her Chi in that scene set "months later," so it may be she'll find the power of the Iron Fist every bit as addictive as Danny did. It could be that Danny's quest ultimately unlocks the secret of truly mastering the Iron Fist, rather than forever struggling to avoid being mastered by it.
One final plot thread was surely intended to be a key part of Iron Fist season 3: Typhoid Mary's third personality. Season 2 teased that a third personality was buried deep within Mary Walker's psyche, a brutal and bloody killer. In the comics, that third personality is the misandrist Bloody Mary, and she's the most terrifying and dangerous of all Mary's alters. At the same time, though, Marvel may well have decided to hold off on that plot for another show; the character is usually associated with Daredevil, and it would definitely be thrilling to see Alice Eve's Typhoid Mary go up against Charlie Cox's Daredevil.
-
With Iron Fist and Luke Cage sadly canceled, what's next for the two heroes? There's a lot of speculation that Marvel and Netflix will pivot to two spinoffs, Daughters of the Dragon and Heroes for Hire. Luke Cage could potentially even be the villain in Daughters of the Dragon, which would focus on Misty and Colleen; he'd then transition over to Heroes for Hire for a redemption arc, teaming up with Danny Rand.
At the moment, though, that's just speculation. Whatever Marvel insiders may say, there's no guarantee will sign up to this approach. For now, there's a real danger that the stories of Luke Cage and Danny Rand - and, indeed, their tremendous supporting characters - will be left incomplete.
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Why Luke Cage & Iron Fist Won't Go To Disney Play
In just a fortnight we've seen Netflix cancel two of their popular Marvel shows, Iron Fist and Luke Cage, which a lot of fans hope will stream on the upcoming Disney streaming service, but that's simply not going to happen. While the characters may well return as cameos, or potentially as co-stars in new spinoffs, they won't be switching from Netflix to a rival streaming service.
The streaming giant is never forthcoming about the business reasons for its decisions, but it's generally believed Iron Fist was canceled due to poor viewing figures. In contrast, reports indicate that conflict between Marvel and Netflix led to the cancellation of Luke Cage, with the partners wanting to push the show in different creative directions. These decisions don't necessarily write Danny Rand and Luke Cage out of potential cameos or even new Netflix spinoffs, of course, but they most certainly leave their future uncertain and Marvel's Netflix slate substantially diminished. That's led to intense speculation that Disney is trying to get the Defenders franchises for its own streaming service, which will launch in late 2019.
Related: Every Exclusive Movie & TV Show Coming To Disney's Streaming Service
We may not know what the future has in store for Luke Cage and Danny Rand, but one thing seems certain - they're not going to the Disney streaming service, reportedly called Disney Play. According to the New York Times, Disney Play is largely being driven by ascendant Disney executive Ricky Strauss. He's been given creative oversight of programming, and is responsible for - in Disney's own words - driving "the strategic content vision." Strauss is believed to favor family-friendly programming, and that Disney Play shouldn't involve R-rated and mature content; he doesn't think that's how people interact with the Disney brand. That means the Marvel Netflix shows wouldn't fit; they're aimed at a different demographic to Disney Play's expected audience.
In the cases of Luke Cage and Iron Fist, the situation is even worse. Disney hopes to make the streaming service a major competitor, launching a massive range of original content. Do they really want to risk turning it into the place Marvel shows go when they've been canceled by networks or rival streaming sites? That problem is especially potent for Iron Fist. In spite of a dramatically improved second season, it's still the most controversial Marvel Netflix show to date. We don't have any idea of viewing figures for season 2 - Netflix never likes to go public about stats like that - but it's assumed to have performed poorly. It's safe to assume that any Marvel Television original content designed for Disney Play will be high-budget, high-quality. After all, it will be sitting next to original content from Marvel Studios, spinoff eight-to-ten-episode shows starring actors like Tom Hiddleston and Elizabeth Olsen. Content that's failed on another platform is highly unlikely to be relaunched on Disney Play.
No doubt the relationship between Marvel Television and Netflix is growing a little more strained due to the upcoming launch of Disney Play; that may be contributing to problems in a partnership that, up till now, has been extremely productive. But Disney Play won't be picking up the canceled Marvel Netflix shows.
- BY THOMAS BACON
- – ON OCT 23, 2018
- IN SR ORIGINALS
In just a fortnight we've seen Netflix cancel two of their popular Marvel shows, Iron Fist and Luke Cage, which a lot of fans hope will stream on the upcoming Disney streaming service, but that's simply not going to happen. While the characters may well return as cameos, or potentially as co-stars in new spinoffs, they won't be switching from Netflix to a rival streaming service.
The streaming giant is never forthcoming about the business reasons for its decisions, but it's generally believed Iron Fist was canceled due to poor viewing figures. In contrast, reports indicate that conflict between Marvel and Netflix led to the cancellation of Luke Cage, with the partners wanting to push the show in different creative directions. These decisions don't necessarily write Danny Rand and Luke Cage out of potential cameos or even new Netflix spinoffs, of course, but they most certainly leave their future uncertain and Marvel's Netflix slate substantially diminished. That's led to intense speculation that Disney is trying to get the Defenders franchises for its own streaming service, which will launch in late 2019.
Related: Every Exclusive Movie & TV Show Coming To Disney's Streaming Service
We may not know what the future has in store for Luke Cage and Danny Rand, but one thing seems certain - they're not going to the Disney streaming service, reportedly called Disney Play. According to the New York Times, Disney Play is largely being driven by ascendant Disney executive Ricky Strauss. He's been given creative oversight of programming, and is responsible for - in Disney's own words - driving "the strategic content vision." Strauss is believed to favor family-friendly programming, and that Disney Play shouldn't involve R-rated and mature content; he doesn't think that's how people interact with the Disney brand. That means the Marvel Netflix shows wouldn't fit; they're aimed at a different demographic to Disney Play's expected audience.
In the cases of Luke Cage and Iron Fist, the situation is even worse. Disney hopes to make the streaming service a major competitor, launching a massive range of original content. Do they really want to risk turning it into the place Marvel shows go when they've been canceled by networks or rival streaming sites? That problem is especially potent for Iron Fist. In spite of a dramatically improved second season, it's still the most controversial Marvel Netflix show to date. We don't have any idea of viewing figures for season 2 - Netflix never likes to go public about stats like that - but it's assumed to have performed poorly. It's safe to assume that any Marvel Television original content designed for Disney Play will be high-budget, high-quality. After all, it will be sitting next to original content from Marvel Studios, spinoff eight-to-ten-episode shows starring actors like Tom Hiddleston and Elizabeth Olsen. Content that's failed on another platform is highly unlikely to be relaunched on Disney Play.
In any case, there's another practical reason Disney would be unwilling to produce further seasons of Luke Cage and Iron Fist on Disney Play. Previous seasons are Netflix Originals; Netflix paid for them, and they possess the distribution rights on a permanent basis. Assuming Disney made a third season of Luke Cage or Iron Fist, then, you'd also need to be subscribing to their biggest competitor in order to make sense of it. They'd have limited potential for picking up brand new viewers.
No doubt the relationship between Marvel Television and Netflix is growing a little more strained due to the upcoming launch of Disney Play; that may be contributing to problems in a partnership that, up till now, has been extremely productive. But Disney Play won't be picking up the canceled Marvel Netflix shows.
It's not suspicious it's dont look at us
Also they're just numbers we have no proof they're the actual numbers lol
there was a STRONG rumor this was going to happen awhile back...
but they decided to just create their own
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