Where Does Lebron Rank All-Time For You As Of Today?
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I definitely understand what you're saying... but Michael Jordan never invested in prisons.
Get a jump shot, get some moves,
Any list with Jordan and Kareem at the top is legit.
Any list with Jordan and Kareem at the top is legit.
People act like Kareem which JUST ANOTHER NBA legend. That's because the NBA hype machine didn't chose him to push. But as they say, men and women lie ... but them numbers and accolades do not....
Why isn't Russell on your list then
The Dream and Shaq ahead of LeBron? Really?
You wrote alot about stat stuffing but you got Wilt at 4?
Im too tired to list all these dudes weaknesses... maybe tomorrow.
....and while Kobe is my favorite player ever, I picked Lebron over him for no reason other than efficiency. Kobe fired very indiscriminately and very frequently. Be it one minute into the first quarter, or one minute left in the 4th, Kobe would take a fall-away, triple pump fake jumper over two defender like it was a good shot. Like I tell people, I'm surprised his FG% was what it was. Too erratic, tho'.. Also, I feel he was a very underrated passer, but Kobe didn't help himself with that perception of him with his gunning.
I wish I could give Kobe's Lebron concern for efficiency. Maybe not to that same extreme, because the one thing that endeared Kobe to me was his unpredictable nature - but there was a way to dial it down and still be exciting.
I wish I could give Kobe's Lebron concern for efficiency. Maybe not to that same extreme, because the one thing that endeared Kobe to me was his unpredictable nature - but there was a way to dial it down and still be exciting.
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He's always played the point because he is a control freak who refuses to relinquish control of the point position. Now, Kyrie is a too short 2 guard, not a point guard. He has the handles for the position, but not the desire to assist. LeBron plays the point in Cleveland largely because Kyrie is inept at handling the task (never seen a GOOD PG with as many 1-2 assist complete games as Kyrie). Since HS he's always had the ball in his hands. Always.
It takes balls and skill to say, "LeBron, this is my position. I got you. Go over there." I've seen Mo Williams do it, but haven't seen any other PG he played with do it, and believe me, if Mo had the talent that Kyrie has LeBron either would not be playing point or he'd be pouting like a bitch.
Russell played with the most stacked teams ever, and shot 44 percent from the FG as a post player. Those rings, to me, are very overrated because he had way more help than anybody else, and a legendary post-player should never have the same FG percentage for the career as Kobe: A guard, with little to no concern for efficiency.
No way Larry is better than LeBron, Magic is great but he played on some of the best teams in the history of the NBA, and other than assist his personal numbers are no where near James, Wilt track record vs Russel is disturbing and had most of his numbers padded playing in a era filled of women, Dream had two great seasons, same two years Jordan was out, coincident, tell me, Shaq got housed by a smaller Piston team while he played on a team full of superstars... My top ten is Jordan, Russel, LeBron, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Duncan, Oscar, Kobe and Bird...
Who would you rather play point??? Wade, Chalmers, Irving, JR, Shumpert, Allen, help me give me some names.....
I'm dyyyiiiinn over here!!!! Dude's name preceeds him like a motherfucker don't it!?!?!
If Shaq had shot the paltry numbers that LeBron does from the line, 73%, he would have been un-fucking-stopable. IDK how much it knocks him down in my eyes, but it does knock him down a peg or two.
I'm spoiled. I grew up in Cleveland with Mark Price. He said, "My dad always told me, 'It's just you and the rim. That's it. Nobody else in the gym matters. Not the players, not the fans'." Price shot 90% and I think his brother did, too, or close. It's the easiest part of the game that Shaq never eally seemed to want to. I bet you that if Jordan had a Grand Canyon-sized hole in his game like that it would be fixed by the 2nd summer if not the first summer after it was pointed out. But Jordan was dat dude. That motherfucker would make the Titanic impervious to water AND icebergs.
You know how retarded this sounds coming from the person who created this topic in the first place...
You are right. He didn't HAVE anybody...but maybe he wanted it that way. Motherfuckers don't like to invite competition to their position. I know it's another sport, but one football player said he only looked at ONE THING after the NFL Draft..."did they draft someone in my position. No? Then I don't give a shit."
I didn't address this thread to KingT - I addressed it to BGOL. He can comment, and vote, but I have no interest in debating Lebron James with anyone who gave Lebron his own unique nickname.
I'm not even interested in debating you. I remember you neglecting to go to sleep that night the Heat lost Game 1 of the Finals that year against the Spurs. You were like a crazed man trying to convince us that the A/C going out was a conspiracy to slow down Lebron. You was in that motherfucker defending Lebron looong after everyone had gone to sleep. I got up 6 or something, and you was still at it.
It may be outside the realm of your ability to understand why I wouldn't want to engage in a debate with you about Lebron, but some things just don't make sense to do.
I'm not even interested in debating you. I remember you neglecting to go to sleep that night the Heat lost Game 1 of the Finals that year against the Spurs. You were like a crazed man trying to convince us that the A/C going out was a conspiracy to slow down Lebron. You was in that motherfucker defending Lebron looong after everyone had gone to sleep. I got up 6 or something, and you was still at it.
It may be outside the realm of your ability to understand why I wouldn't want to engage in a debate with you about Lebron, but some things just don't make sense to do.
Do you know how wild what you just typed sounds??? Even if he didn't want talent around him so that he could shine, were true, for him to win as many games as he did, with that little talent and still get it done, would make him even better than where I placed him...
Dude trust me, he nor anyone who has ever played is that great...
Don't believe me next time you play pick up ball, delibratly choose the biggest scrubs on your squad, and try to be the start at everything, then tell me how that works out for you..
You know how retarded this sounds coming from the person who created this topic in the first place...
The only thing I pointed about about the A.C. was that it was a old Boston Celtic trick, that they used to beat the Lakers,.. Folks here, especially the younger ones doubted me assuming I was lying when in actuality the Cetlics admitted to doing it... I never said it was done on purpose, I said, go back to the tread and read again, that the only other time I can recall this shit happening was that Boston game, where the home team wound up slowing down the quicker Lakers team with the old A.C. trick...
I just said it was suspicious especially knowing it happened before...
Say what you want, every thing I said that day was 100% facts..
Honestly, bruh. I'm a football guy. You ask me to diagram a zone blitz, a post corner route, or the Jerry Rice slant and I got you all day. Basketball I don't always understand what I am seeing. I know he dribbles the air out of the ball waving everybody off, which causes his teammates to stand around half the time with their thumb up their asses. I know he's not a great jump shooter, or 3 point shooter, but he wants to be REAALLY really bad. I also know that he doesn't submit to coaching because thinks he knows every damned thing. Maybe he did know more than a coach or two in his past, but as Iverson said as he was doing the HOF rounds, "I wish I would have listened to Larry Brown." LeBron, if he's honest will have a similar revelation.
He's a great player. I am not doubting that. But he could be so much greater, like Shaq if he's learned to shoot 70% from the line. Jordan was an above average player with Legendary work ethic. That turned a skinny boy into a player who would not be denied. Not saying he's Rudy, but what he had was HONED, it wasn't natural (I'm gonna get a lot of flack, but the logic is sound if you think about it).
With me its not his free throw shooting. Its the laziness. Phil got Shaq right for a few years. Beyond that Shaq didnt give a fuck. Him and Kobe should have had ten rings together. Shaq could have had more MVPs then Kareem. He just didnt care. ALL of his numbers SHOULD have been better.
Hakeem is my favorite center of all time. He missed the playoffs in his prime. Think about that. Hakeem was a beast one on one but he couldnt pass so offensively he was a black hole for a majority of his career. He peaked at the perfect time (MJ retired) and he could claim he was the best center of his era, but his career just doesnt match up. The Rockets were not consistently contenders and often got embarrassed in the playoffs.In the same number of years, forgetting team accomplishments, Hakeem has 6 all-nba first team and James has 10.
I totally agree with you about Shaq's laziness. That's the main thing that pissed off Kobe. Like, "Motherfucker TRY." You are right, he should have been better. Shaq with 80% from the line? Oh My FUCKING GAWD!
Hakeem Olajuwon made it to the Finals very early in his career, then years later when Mike retired.
What does that tell me? If he had been surrounded with the right pieces, he would have contended more. Those two rings mean a lot, even if Mike wasn't around. He wasn't teamed up with multiple All-Stars, yet did a back to back? Look at how competitive the West was back then when he was winning and when he wasn't.
All rings are not created equal in my world.
That's to say nothing of the fact that, he retired top 10 in points, rebounds, blocks, and STEALS. Nobody has EVER done that. EVER. Not only that, but dude offensive skills were ridiculous.
I remember a session of Open Court, and the way the players talked about him, you could tell that they regarded him more highly than most fans did, and thats because they actually had to play him. No one can do it alone, but what all he brought to the table individually, we ain't gon' see that again for awhile.
What does that tell me? If he had been surrounded with the right pieces, he would have contended more. Those two rings mean a lot, even if Mike wasn't around. He wasn't teamed up with multiple All-Stars, yet did a back to back? Look at how competitive the West was back then when he was winning and when he wasn't.
All rings are not created equal in my world.
That's to say nothing of the fact that, he retired top 10 in points, rebounds, blocks, and STEALS. Nobody has EVER done that. EVER. Not only that, but dude offensive skills were ridiculous.
I remember a session of Open Court, and the way the players talked about him, you could tell that they regarded him more highly than most fans did, and thats because they actually had to play him. No one can do it alone, but what all he brought to the table individually, we ain't gon' see that again for awhile.
Who's #1 and #2?
Russell is the most overrated player EVER. I get that he helped to break through racial barriers, and that should be applauded. But damn if his offensive game wasn't horrible by any standards. At 6'9" and with his length, he should have been shooting 60 percent back then(especially before Wilt came on the scene). Watching him play on the offensive side of the floor will make your eyes bleed.
He has some nice numbers because of PACE. Players were just chucking up shots back then and weren't nearly as good as shooters(on average) as today's players. Damn, he was shooting 45 percent in the late 50s before Wilt came into the league playing against slow cacs.
Seriously, what big man shoots 45 percent and gets to be all-time great? In the NBA of the 80s through today, Bill Russell probably averages 10-12 pts per game and somewhere around 12 rebounds. He's a great defensive player, but is lack of offense disqualifies him from being up there with a lot of other players.
Bill just has a lot of respeck on his name from the great Celtic squads Red put together. Red only cared about winning and helped break racial barriers. Celtics had the first black starting five. That was in the age of racial quotas.
As for Lebron, he is top 5 right now. Not only has he lead 2 final winning teams(the heat teams) in points, rebounds, and assists. He came back with the Cavs and lead BOTH teams in every major category. Sheer fucking dominance.
hows your new gig going skip?
who do you have over him and have all of them been to six straight finals and carry a bum team to the NBA Finals by themselves?
wade, bosh, kyrie, love, boozer, ray allen, shaq, jr smith def sound like a bunch of bums... luke walton, kwame brown def sound like some winners
