So LeBron couldn't think for himself?
I'm not in the locker room however the narrative that a guy as hard working as LeBron can't make his own adjustments is a bit off-putting.
Coach Killer: Miami Heat Minority Owner Says LeBron James Wanted Erik Spoelstra Fired
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I'm not in the locker room however the narrative that a guy as hard working as LeBron can't make his own adjustments is a bit off-putting.
I think too much power could be causing him a problem. The Heat provided him with restraint (Riley and Wade). This is not a knock on Lebron either. There are great players who would have fucked up their teams if allowed. Jordan wanted to ship Pippen out because of how he kept folding in the big games (he just needed more time to develop). Luckily for him that he was at a strong organization that didn't allow him to ship off a future hall of famer and perfect compliment. The league was a lit different then too. Lebron holds Cleveland hostage with the 1 year deals. So they ultimately have to do whatever he wants. That's not a good thing in most cases. I think he's too close to it to see what he needs. The things that caused him problems down the stretch in Miami are still lingering (he went out of his way to recreate in Cleveland... even took some of the old ass players from there with him).
It's the same reason why a good board of directors can help a ceo. It's the same reason why a good executive team can help a ceo. it's the same way a good manager can bring out the best in their team.
Lebron thought Irving and Love could recreate what he had with Wade and Bosh when they won the back to back. Neither one of those players is as good as they two and even Wade's never healthy ass is more dependable than Love or Irving (health-wise). But they're both also bad defenders so Lebron set himself up in a situation where he has to do even more than what he had to do in Miami in that final season (when Wade was hurt).
Should have stayed in Miami?
After they got blown out by the Spurs, the heat had the typical end of year meetings. Riley holds a press conference basically airing out in house discussions. It seemed to me that he was going at LeBron specifically. Talking shit about manning up, it's tough being great, etc.
What most fail to realize is that when a LeBron team loses, LeBron gets the blame. No matter who is hurt all year, who is coaching, who the GM is, who the President is, the shit falls on LeBron.
Kobe can lose and it's the teammates, the coach, the GM, hell, even the owner.
LeBron shows up every game, guards everyone, assists, rebounds, and blocks shots, yet he gets the blame for whatever goes wrong.
Blatt passed over way more qualified coaches for his position. They get blown out by the Dubs and everyone knew Blatt had to go.
Yet, That is Lebrons doing. Maybe it is. So.
Same Spo has won without him. Problem is tho, without Spo Bron still winning 60 games and competing for titles. Meanwhile Spo ain't even make the postseason without Bron.When you get to LeBrons level regular season records aren't the measure of success. They had better records with LeBron, but tell me, how many chips has LeBron won without Spol or when he was given the ability to weigh in on personnel and coaching decisions?
Spo was along for the ride. Spo is interchangeable. Bron ain't.
This is a issue of value. And as the most valuable part of the whole, Bron should be entitled to certain inputs and suggestions.
Why you guys have issue with him exercising that earned privilege is beyond me.
The guy single handedly increased Dan Gilbert's net worth a couple hundred million, and you guys are offended that he may have played a part in some lame duck coach getting fired? Weird.
Never blamed Lebron for losing.
I said he won't win another ring.
I said he should have stayed in Miami.
I said he isn't a GM.
Never said it was his fault when his teams lost.
Be clear.
I get your point, however, hasn't LeBron kept most of his day ones around?
I think LeBron is way more accommodating than we are hearing.
Why is it that he can recruit people to take pay cuts and less minutes?
People are acting like he got Phil Jackson or Pop fired.
Not caping for dude cause i was pissed when he left us down here but I get it.
I still don't get how he got all that noise for fulfilling his contract and leaving when other players can force trades mid season and it's not treated the same.
So without Spol up to this point LeBron hasn't won't any Chips. Thanks for clearing that up.
Riddle me this, what is the difference between LeBron 60 win team and the Heat at the end of the season if neither wins the Chip?
Im guessing LeBron will be a Laker in the next two years.
Spo is a bad coach lol he shouldve been fired. he didn't do shit to win the titles. he had lebron bosh and wade healthy.
they didn't even live up to their potential which is crazy to say with 4 straight finals appearances. but just look at simple shit.
warriors run a pick and roll with curry and green and kill shit
that simple thing done with bosh and lebron would have meant the end of every single game they played because you can't stop it period.
spo sucks
they didn't even live up to their potential which is crazy to say with 4 straight finals appearances. but just look at simple shit.
warriors run a pick and roll with curry and green and kill shit
that simple thing done with bosh and lebron would have meant the end of every single game they played because you can't stop it period.
spo sucks
The way Miami's season (lebron's final season) ended was more about Wade being unhealthy during the second half of the year. All you need was a healthy Wade and a couple of younger guys in the rotation. He might have left Miami a couple of seasons too early.
Oh. I'm not even commenting on the Blatt situation. My first comment was that I'm not even commenting on the coach-killing stuff.
I'm just talking about being a GM as a player. I don't think most players can do it.
I don't think it's a coincidence that he won his titles with Riley. Riley pulled the hoe shit towards the end with outing Lebron's family situation, etc but I think he would have built a better team around Lebron (If the owner was willing to pay the luxury tax).
I'm not convinced that Kyrie and Love are the types of guys you want to go to war with considering they've never won shit and they're always hurt.
Spo was Riley's guy.. So he was not going anywhere
You keep asking questions but refuse to answer the ones posed to you.
But I'll play along.
The difference is Bron is still relevant and competing for titles. This again shows his value and worth as the one piece that is not interchangeable. That earns him certain privileges that others don't have.
Spo was along for the ride. Meanwhile Cavs went from lottery doormat to conference champs. And in a dollars and cents business , that's worth a shit load of money.
I actually did answer your question, but cool so understanding what you're saying, a player who is getting paid maximum money and millions, should also be given carte blanche to make all personnel decisions, overstep the coach and general manager, after only signing a one year contract? So that player, should be allowed to make decisions that could negatively impact that team for years without making a long term commitment to the team?! That actually makes a lot of sense, what the hell was I thinking?
i know that it don't make him a good coach though lol.
he ain't ive never liked him.
Bosh was out half of the damn season. That's why they didn't go to the playoffs. Come on man
Not really seeing the logic. Both Miami and GSW where dominate and we're clearly above teams in the NBA. Golden state has the luxury of a deep team because Steph Curry is coming at a steep discount.
That's the point Bron wasn't moving that needle with Riley when it came too GM and coaching decisions lol
Same goes for MJ. Bring him going 1-9 in the playoffs pre-Pippen and its "his teammates sucked, he lost to the greatest teams ever". Bring up him losing to Detroit 3 years in a row even going up 2-1 in one of those series and its "Pippen is the reason they lost MJ did all he could". Bring up 95, its "he was rusty", bring up the Wizards its "his teammates sucked, he was old blah blah blah" despite he actually was the GM who put that team together. But when he won? Oh it was ALL him. Thats what seperates Bron from those 2 he's always blamed for his losses, those guys are shielded from it.
No. You didnt answer any of them.. And apparently you still dont get it... He hasnt been given "carte blanche to make all personnel decisions" and there is no proof he overstepped anyone.. You're pulling shit out of your ass and making extreme assumptions and passing them off as fact. And why does he owe anyone a long term deal when he gave that same team 7 years the first go round and they failed miserably to give him competent parts to succeed. And the moment he left they went from conference champion and contender to lottery laughing stock? And we he returns, profits and value sky rocket and they return to conference champs and contender..
Again, he has earned certain privileges. Not sure how anyone can dispute that from a pure business aspect..
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Lebron earned the right to influence decisions but that doesn't mean he is good at it
He is just a great player so that masks all the other shit
He is just a great player so that masks all the other shit
Cleveland needs to call Lebron's bluff and take back their power. What is Lebron going to do? Leave again? No way. He would kill all the goodwill reclaimed. The reality of those 1-year deals is so Lebron can get as much dough as he rightfully deserves. But it's a bluff he also uses to control the franchise. He is having his cake and eating it. God bless.
Gilbert and Griffin need to go back to calling the shots.
Gilbert and Griffin need to go back to calling the shots.
Bron responds...
Too late they have already traded Wiggins for Love bum ass and given Tristian Thompson a full max deal along with firing a very replaceable coach considering how the team is being ran
Minus whale keep it going cuz we all know who is running the show so if it doesn't work we know why
And im cool with this. Ive called him a bad GM myself. But to act offended and outraged because he has the perceived power or influence from a player position is fucking ridiculous. He absolutely should have input and allowed to share his preferences and opinions. Thats good business.
Yep.
I get it. And it's an even bigger problem because who would really completely trust Cleveland to do things correctly? He's not a good GM though. It's rare for great players to be good at those things. I think average to bad players (make for better coaches/GMs) understand how to get more out of players and to identify talent because it was something they had to be much more conscious about as players.
This is organization man... Lebron decided to go back to that organization. Winning one there would by far be his greatest achievements. Certain organizations just having losing baked into their souls. I know as a Lions' fan. He should have gone back w/ the stipulation that Cleveland get Jerry West as GM or something
I get your point and as always, a debate with you remains respectful and dignified.
Just like I would never tell you about the Pistons in the 90's, I have been going to Heat games when they played in the Miami Arena and you parked on peoples lawns for 20 dollars.
That doesn't mean I am more qualified in my opinions, however I have done much homework.
Do we forget how Riley left New York with a fax? How he did Van Gundy when Shaq was here? (Even though Shaq wanted "master of panic gone").How he ran the Heat into the ground and then went back upstairs? Riles held a press conference down here one time and said he is not that great. He said he walked into Magic and Kareem the year after they won the ship.I love Riles however he gets credit sometimes that he really doesn't deserve. This came from Riles own mouth. That doesn't mean Riles isn't great, but this gangster Godfather image is something he buys into to a detriment.
Additionally, he was still taking shots at Lebron after last season ended. Trying to imply Lebron is not honorable. Four straight Finals and the man still has to talk shit about the man?
Players lobby for players and coaches all the time. Remember when Phil Jackson became available and Shaq (I think Kobe as well) campaigned hard for him? You really think Kobe didn't get consulted about Chris Paul?
I'm not really sure the extent of LeBron's GMing. Are those back channels dumping on him?
I just fail to see how a player that increases the bottom line of a whole downtown area shouldn't have say so.
I think if we are talking about GM Jerry West that's a different story.
The one thing about sports (that's not fixed) is that the games have to be played. How do we really know that Wiggins would have developed in Cleveland? Love is having trouble adjusting just like Bosh said he would.
We shall see.
Thanks for the convo. I appreciate your perspective.
I don't know why cats are upset. Players have always gotten coaches fired. Riles even got ran out of the Lakers. The Heat players didn't even want Riles back when they signed Lebron. The players are the talent. if superstar player doesn't want to play or doesn't respect the coach then the coach has to go. No ifs, ands or buts. The only coach that hasn't been run off is Pop.
Now, Lebron probably needs to be reigned in a little but that is where good management comes into play. He should have input but not final say. It seems that he may be getting final say in certain decisions. I am all for player empowerment, but you have to be accountable. Anyone will abuse it if they are not accountable. That doesn't make Lebron a bad guy. It just makes him human. You need people to tell you no or that your idea is dumb, shut the fuck up or whatever.
Now, Lebron probably needs to be reigned in a little but that is where good management comes into play. He should have input but not final say. It seems that he may be getting final say in certain decisions. I am all for player empowerment, but you have to be accountable. Anyone will abuse it if they are not accountable. That doesn't make Lebron a bad guy. It just makes him human. You need people to tell you no or that your idea is dumb, shut the fuck up or whatever.
I think the move to get Love was the obvious one where you could see it happening before it happened. We knew what was coming when he made his initial statement and acknowledged everyone on the team besides the recently drafted Andrew Wiggins. Wiggins wasn't there because Lebron didn't want him there. Love is there because that's the guy he wanted. I've always thought Love was overrated and he's clearly one of the worst defenders of all time. I just felt that was only going to make Lebron work harder on the defensive end..which was one of the reasons he wanted out of Miami.
Lebron is a basketball savant.... but sometimes shit can be clear as day to people who are on the outside looking in.
I actually hate that he's losing prime years with guys like Love... like i wouldn't be shocked if Love got hurt again and missed the playoff run like last season. On the surface, love looks like a replacement for Bosh and Lebron probably thought he would replace his scoring + give them more rebounding... but I don't think most people (even savants like Lebron) really understood how bad of a defender that guy is.
I'm not knocking Lebron. He's not done anything wrong. I just wish that 1) he had a better coach and gm around 2) he could trust those guys and focus on playing.
Think of how lucky both the Spurs and Duncan have been...or Brady and BB..... wish dude had that type of environment so he could just play ball.
Lets get the record strait James is in his 13th season and now is on his 4th coach and Blatt is the only one that has ever been fired while James played..... But he's black and brown shit said it, so I guess that make him a coach killer!
Nah... It is just something to talk about to keep people talking.
J Kidd is the coach killer. He started in college.
This cat said "I have a huge basketball IQ"
But couldn't figure out how to score on JJ Barea
But couldn't figure out how to score on JJ Barea
I definitely respect him speaking up... In addition, he showed a lot of character by influencing Miami to take Napier knowing he fully intended to bounce. Also, being directly involved with giving up Wiggins and influencing the wack TT deal... Dude is a straight birch if he rolls this season after influencing decisions that make screwed this team and this city for years...Bron responds...
This cat said "I have a huge basketball IQ"
But couldn't figure out how to score on JJ Barea
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