News Flash: Papoose has just murdered Kendrick Lamar. It's Over. Damn!
- Thread starter kefta
- Start date
I'm one for complex lyrics but I realize that hearing cats rhyme just for the sake of riddling and rhyming can become boring easily. New York is late to realize this. Lyrics is a requisite but not the only tool in the arsenal. Rhyming just to rhyme was popular when the art form was still growing and people were learning new ways to play with words from the early simple to the later complex (this is when new york shined). You couldn't get enough of it back then. But now hip-hop has pretty much ran the gamut of word play and different ways to play with words.
We know everyone can rhyme now, everyone is doing it, but can you make a song too? You can be super lyrical all day but if you can't make songs that appeal to a wider audience then your audience will remain on a plateau. The thing NY did was sleep on the lyricism of other regions because it wasn't sounding like NY rappers. Big mistake. In it's arrogance NY thought nobody would pay attention to other type of rhyme styles like Snoop Doggs simile rap style. People still argue it today because 2pac wasn't heavy lyricist but look at the impact he made on the culture. He wasn't the most prolific lyricist but he had the passion, subject matter and production in his music and that resonated.
Then look at how once Lil' Wayne changed up his rhyme style and started getting crossover love from NY niggas who said he sound like a NY rapper, people said the same for The Game. Lil Wayne had a southern sound but once he added that extra lyricism to his songs he blew up. Same with The Game. The way you enunciate words and slang from your region can work wonders on your rhyme scheme. Other regions have always valued lyricism and ever searching for artist that could compare to NY's level of lyricism so I don't think any region doesn't demand lyrics because look at the reception of these artist above. I could name others but...
What I'm saying is Hip-Hop has found it's balance between lyrics and the music. Lyrics are cool but that's all they end up being cold, without catchy lines or flavor coupled with it. Not saying NY has no flavor just that lyrical heavy isn't going to keep you the king of hip hop, if that's what they trying to be.
Also I just want to say Kendricks verse really isn't as big as it's being made to be. Yeah he spit some fire and profound shit but I think the KONY line has been taken way out of context. He was pretty much saying he is the next 2pac and the next Biggie with that K.O.N.Y. line. A lot of rappers boast they filled that void after those rappers died. So the KONY line wasn't that big of a thing to me when I first heard it. I think NY is just in a critical place right now in hip-hop that it's grasping for anything to stay relevant in a era that seems to have left them behind.
I didn't mean to write all that shit ^^^^
I hate when I type a lot like that. I know my shit be getting Powell'd.
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yeah he was emotional cuz it shows he held on to envy and jealousy. Kendrick brought Pap out to "headline" Summer Jam this year in NY. ..a west coast artist gave that mfkr shine in pap's own damn city!! that is what ate him up inside all that time. you biggin this man up and talking about how you were cool with him before fame, yet the moment you see a chance to "get at him" you throw shots at him. mfkrs in your own damn city didn't think shit about you, yet he did and that's how you repay him?! Man K dot not responding would kill Paps..that mfkr would be talkin all big an bad on hot 97 like he won, not knowing this game is chess not checkers and you're not even in the building to get on a board.
Dj's from his own town don't respect him
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/p0092oRu8FA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Since when is combat jack a dj?
I'm one for complex lyrics but I realize that hearing cats rhyme just for the sake of riddling and rhyming can become boring easily. New York is late to realize this. Lyrics is a requisite but not the only tool in the arsenal. Rhyming just to rhyme was popular when the art form was still growing and people were learning new ways to play with words from the early simple to the later complex (this is when new york shined). You couldn't get enough of it back then. But now hip-hop has pretty much ran the gamut of word play and different ways to play with words.
We know everyone can rhyme now, everyone is doing it, but can you make a song too? You can be super lyrical all day but if you can't make songs that appeal to a wider audience then your audience will remain on a plateau. The thing NY did was sleep on the lyricism of other regions because it wasn't sounding like NY rappers. Big mistake. In it's arrogance NY thought nobody would pay attention to other type of rhyme styles like Snoop Doggs simile rap style. People still argue it today because 2pac wasn't heavy lyricist but look at the impact he made on the culture. He wasn't the most prolific lyricist but he had the passion, subject matter and production in his music and that resonated.
Then look at how once Lil' Wayne changed up his rhyme style and started getting crossover love from NY niggas who said he sound like a NY rapper, people said the same for The Game. Lil Wayne had a southern sound but once he added that extra lyricism to his songs he blew up. Same with The Game. The way you enunciate words and slang from your region can work wonders on your rhyme scheme. Other regions have always valued lyricism and ever searching for artist that could compare to NY's level of lyricism so I don't think any region doesn't demand lyrics because look at the reception of these artist above. I could name others but...
What I'm saying is Hip-Hop has found it's balance between lyrics and the music. Lyrics are cool but that's all they end up being cold, without catchy lines or flavor coupled with it. Not saying NY has no flavor just that lyrical heavy isn't going to keep you the king of hip hop, if that's what they trying to be.
Also I just want to say Kendricks verse really isn't as big as it's being made to be. Yeah he spit some fire and profound shit but I think the KONY line has been taken way out of context. He was pretty much saying he is the next 2pac and the next Biggie with that K.O.N.Y. line. A lot of rappers boast they filled that void after those rappers died. So the KONY line wasn't that big of a thing to me when I first heard it. I think NY is just in a critical place right now in hip-hop that it's grasping for anything to stay relevant in a era that seems to have left them behind.
I didn't mean to write all that shit ^^^^
If this shit has found it's balance between lyrics and music? Then what the fuck is Kendrick talking about? What are all the dissatisfied fans talking about? The songs/albums are ass because the lyrics are way sub par. If you like it now where these Chief Keef dudes can be relevant with short bus music then you should be mad at Kendrick for trying to get rappers to step their game up.
We don't know everyone can rhyme now because they barely show any skills and that is fine because no one requires it from them.
And let's stop talking about Wayne in any hip hop discussions because he did sound nice until Gillie started writing for him and shortly after Gillie left... Wayne's "Lyricism" fell apart.
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If this shit has found it's balance between lyrics and music then what the fuck is Kendrick talking about? What are all the dissatisfied fans talking about? The songs/albums are ass because the lyrics are way sub par. If you like it now where these Chief Keef dudes can be relevant with short bus music than you should be mad at Kendrick for trying to get rappers to step their game up.
We don't know everyone can rhyme now because they barely show any skills and that is fine because no one requires it from them.
And let's stop talking about Wayne in any hip hop discussions because he did sound nice until Gillie started writing for him and shortly after Gillie left... Wayne's "Lyricism" fell apart.
i think wayne's decline has more to do with being a drug addict.
some people create better when they're high.. wayne is the opposite
basically. new york radio dj's control who gets played in nyc.
people in new york are loving these outsiders because no new york young artists are stepping up.
and the new, new york young artists don't want to sound like traditional new york.
what it comes down to is make good, impacting music period.
you make that then it'll do something.
lyrics ain't the problem, people will still listen to lyrics but it better have a good beat...that's not dated.. and the hook better be on point.. simple formula. same formula it's always been.
So Wayne was around those junkies for years but didn't start getting high until shortly after his ghost writer left?
wanye was underage for most of those years.
there is a clear difference in him then and him now outside of rapping.
Dj's from his own town don't respect him
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/p0092oRu8FA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Dj's from his own town don't respect him
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/p0092oRu8FA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Dj's from his own town don't respect him
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/p0092oRu8FA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
got-damn
alexw said:
Exactly....
All these jokers cheering and defending Kendrick Lamar are the ones, who like Joe Budden said, made Trindad James hot, while they only watch Mos Def on YouTube.
So you believe being underage somehow stops someone from getting high?
The difference is he was ass, then out of nowhere he was nice and then he went from some timey to ass again. During the time he was nice Gillie said he wrote for the man which explains how Wayne started to have east coast bars along with Gillie's mannerisms when he rapped. After Gillie left, the man has put together some decent bars but the majority has been struggle bars and he seemed to be going through an identity crisis.
Regardless this all goes back to another point about how hip hop is the way it is. There used to be unwritten rules to the shit about what was respectable and what wasn't. Having a ghost writer should have ended his career. Even if you refuse to believe it, sounding like another rapper should have ended his career. Putting out wack shit after wack shit should have ended his career, but lyrics don't matter anymore. So Wayne can say any odd ball thing over a hot beat and it still sell records.
im saying anyone with eyes and a brain can see that lil wayne was at least alert and coherent
and then became so dazed and high and fucked off that he's had how many seizures and shit?
his life is in shambles personally cause of his addiction money be damned.
Wayne was spitting before Gillie even came into the picture. Niggas don't know about the SQ7 days or Wayne first and second albums
If Gillie is so nice why his career never became much?
Wayne was spitting before Gillie even came into the picture. Niggas don't know about the SQ7 days or Wayne first and second albums
You're a idiot!
Wayne was spitting before Gillie even came into the picture. Niggas don't know about the SQ7 days or Wayne first and second albums
He wasn't nice, but if you believe he was then why did Gillie start writing for him?
Also why do people act like nice niggas don't fall through the cracks all the fucking time? Especially now, because it doesn't matter if you nice anymore. Shit it hasn't mattered for a decade at least.
So you are saying this had more of an affect on the quality of his raps than his ghost writer leaving?
If this shit has found it's balance between lyrics and music? Then what the fuck is Kendrick talking about? What are all the dissatisfied fans talking about? The songs/albums are ass because the lyrics are way sub par. If you like it now where these Chief Keef dudes can be relevant with short bus music then you should be mad at Kendrick for trying to get rappers to step their game up.
We don't know everyone can rhyme now because they barely show any skills and that is fine because no one requires it from them.
And let's stop talking about Wayne in any hip hop discussions because he did sound nice until Gillie started writing for him and shortly after Gillie left... Wayne's "Lyricism" fell apart.
Kendrick is talking about taking it back to more prolific lyrics.
Everyone and they mothers brother raps now skill level is debatable but the point is most in the game know how to run a few rhyming words together. Barely showing skills isn't devoid of skills it's just not super lyrical. Then you got the ones that are super lyrical who think they should be on.
Wayne is relevant to this discussion because NY niggas wasn't paying no attention to him until he started rapping the way Gillie taught him. And you just said he did sound nice at one point. Wayne found his balance with lyrics and song making that garnered him his current success.
Music as it stands now is hook, beat, and dance music. Some shit people can club to. Just enough lyrics to make you say "That's tight".
Thing is asking people to appreciate lyricism is like asking everyone to appreciate the art form. Mother fuckers don't want hip hop to return to those days anymore but we'll see.
The fans that appreciate real or heavy lyricism are few and there will always be those few artist that spit that super lyrical shit to keep shit balance. You think because hip hop has grown so popular that it's fans respects it as an art form at it's most basic element, lyricism, but they don't. A few get it. Most hip-hop fans just want some feel good shit they can bounce party and club to. Kendrick will hold it down for now with the lyrics but I expect hip hop to go back to loving some half rapping ass thug like another 50 Cent or Jeezy type after this. Hip-hop is funny like that.
Kendrick is talking about taking it back to more prolific lyrics.
Everyone and they mothers brother raps now skill level is debatable but the point is most in the game know how to run a few rhyming words together. Barely showing skills isn't devoid of skills it's just not super lyrical. Then you got the ones that are super lyrical who think they should be on.
Wayne is relevant to this discussion because NY niggas wasn't paying no attention to him until he started rapping the way Gillie taught him. And you just said he did sound nice at one point. Wayne found his balance with lyrics and song making that garnered him his current success.
Music as it stands now is hook, beat, and dance music. Some shit people can club to. Just enough lyrics to make you say "That's tight".
Thing is asking people to appreciate lyricism is like asking everyone to appreciate the art form. Mother fuckers don't want hip hop to return to those days anymore but we'll see.
You think because hip hop has grown so popular that it's fans respects it as an art form at it's most basic element, lyricism, but they don't. A few get it. Most hip-hop fans just want some feel good shit they can bounce party and club to. Kendrick will hold it down for now with the lyrics but I expect hip hop to go back to loving some half rapping ass thug like another 50 Cent or Jeezy type after this. Hip-hop is funny like that.
I see what you are typing but it isn't connecting. If the majority of people don't care about lyrics, how is there a balance? Hip hop has become a shallow art form represented in the most one dimensional way when it used to be a once intricate art culture. MCing became the most relevant element only to get watered down into something that anyone can do... talent or no talent.
I remember the late 90's early 2000's when hip hop heads lost their say in this shit. When heads would call out so many rappers for being mediocre and then the word "hating" became a debate ender. I remember niggas shutting up Ice T for telling the truth about Soulja Boy. Now the new standard for mediocre is really terrible and the buzz has died out on a lot of the stars from that time. The music industry is slowly dying and it is getting to the point were people are getting fed up with the wack shit. Hopefully the underground Renaissance overtakes the whole industry and lyrics become important again. For me I can't take a rapper seriously if I think I can put words together better than them. Sorry I went on a separate rant.
Also I love when people do this shit with Wayne or ghost writing in general. Gillie didn't teach that man, he wrote for that man. People loved Wayne's image and allure, hip hop heads loved Gillie's lyrics. Without Gillie's writtens Wayne wouldn't have gotten the credibility that he got.
I say it's a balance because one artist like Kendrick can weigh a lot and even the industry out. Hip Hop now is just enough to keep the true hip-hop fans listening, and the casual fans interested in what comes next. That's why I say it's a balance. Of course you still got the underground as a part of hip-hop this keeps true fans hopeful one someone from the underground blows mainstream.
As for the Soulja boys go. Terrible rap is still terrible they just found a market for it.
His coke might have been raw but he was terrible in that booth and Gillie fixed that malfunction over there.
you really think this is hot? come on dude said you were sitting on a man's lap...it was him as a baby. only a fatherless nigga would say that. this shit sucked. you want to know what, no one wins with a direct response. no one. I'm assuming new yorkers really upset about the king of new york line, but has anyone taken it into context with the entire verse?
that's what you say. and that's fine.
He did used to go in on those Squad Up mixtapes tho'.
nah he wasn't on hits before gillie apparently. he didn't do those squad up tapes.. he just hired gillie and gillie became the rap whisperer.
wayne being a junkie has fucked up his career imo
On behalf of myself... and many of my fellow New Yorkers...
A word from Doggie Diamonds and the good brothers at forbezdvd.com...
I AM VANDAMATION... AND I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE...
A word from Doggie Diamonds and the good brothers at forbezdvd.com...
I AM VANDAMATION... AND I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE...
Yall the same type of niggas that fucked with No Limit back in the day but won't even admit to yourselves now they had some of the worst rappers ever.
Pap always does that. He would be better if it was shorter.
Joell's is still the benchmark.
Niggas saying gillie wrote for Wayne are the same niggas that watch an Illuminati vid on youtube from some random person and believe that shit just because they said its true. If you wasn't in the studio or around Wayne how would you know this?? Oh yea, gillie said it so its true lmao
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