Exactly, you 2 are attacking an idea, what you haven't come to grips with is the actual tactic that was used. Tell me the present US govt doesn't want to impose the same tactic as the Germans and I will stand down but as this dialog continues, I see you or T1 cannot argue the "gun registration" tactic
Sorry, Gun Nuts: Hitler Actually Relaxed Most Gun Laws:
- Thread starter thoughtone
- Start date
Exactly, you 2 are attacking an idea, what you haven't come to grips with is the actual tactic that was used. Tell me the present US govt doesn't want to impose the same tactic as the Germans and I will stand down but as this dialog continues, I see you or T1 cannot argue the "gun registration" tactic
What?
First, you said "Exactly" like we said the same thing. We did not. I am clearly saying that pulling the Hitler is inappropriate even if it's factually accurate, which it appears to not be.
Second
I don't have a problem with universal background checks on purchaser and purchases, which can be seen a registration. The criminals that so many love to cite get their gun from somewhere and it's not even within the boundaries of the imagination to suggest they all have stolen firearms. None of us want or should want the mentally ill or known violent felons to be able to acquire a firearm so when they do, there needs to be an efficient way to find out where they got such a weapon from when they commit a crime.
Background checks are not the same as registration or the federal government keeping a database of gun owners.
I don't think it is which is why I said
Seeing how many love to play the "slippery slope" game, if the gov't has a way of knowing who is trying to and actually buying guns, they have a de facto registration.
No, retaining the data in any way isn't a given.
Different levels of data collection or data restrictions can be written into law.
I'm in favor of universal background checks as well, but not if people like you get their way by making the federal government keep a database of those checked and definitely not keep track of who went ahead and bought a gun.
Inaccurate? Any proof, please explain!
Dog,
You are arguing with the wrong brother. You and T1 go have that duel.
Stop playing the Hitler card.
Not sure if you understand that we agree here.
I don't see the actual difference. Gun shops and their inventory are databased. Each purchase should include a background check, whether in the shop, at a show, or on line. I like the idea of knowing if Person A purchased ____ weapon so in case said weapon is found at the scene of a crime, we can know who to ask about it.
Inaccurate? please explain!
We don't agree. The very nature of a background check isn't a de facto registration.
There is nothing about that scenario that requires a federal database or federal registration.
Again, gun nuts are attempting to prove that where there is gun control, there is genocide.
I haven't found any serious attempt to counter this straw dog argument. However I do know that during the Whiskey Rebellion in 1791, there was absolutely a extremely well armed community and the then new American federal government put down that insurrection quick.
Ban assault rifles and enforce national gun registration!
Negrocons fall in line!
source: Raw Story
Fox News guest: Gun background checks for mental illness will include abortions
A Fox News guest on Tuesday warned that a Democratic plan to expand gun background checks would allow the Ku Klux Klan to control black people and keep firearms out of the hands of women who had an abortion.
Conservative columnist Star Parker told Fox News host Sean Hannity that she had created a web advertisement linking KKK lynchings to gun control because “the Democrats in the Senate are insistent on passing background check laws.”
“I thought it appropriate to remind Americans that we’ve been here before,” she explained. “How is it that 5 percent of the population, the KKK — six million people in a country of more than 100 million — how is it that 5 percent were able to wreak havoc over 4 million new citizens, the former slaves? And one of the ways is because they systematically — the Democrats in power, the Democrats in political power in the South — systematically passed gun control laws in black code so that blacks would not be able to exercise their right to bear arms.”
“Do you think that is the motive of some people now?” Hannity wondered.
“Come on, these are same Democrats that gave us Obamacare,” Parker insisted. “Let me tell you something about this background check discussion that we don’t get to ask about, how do we know what those qualifiers are going to be?”
“Because they’re saying if you’ve had any mental problem in your background, well, does that mean that their going to ask questions about abortion?” she added. “Because people who have had abortion, according to studies, have a tendency to have mental challenges later on.”
As Media Matters noted on Tuesday, a 2008 American Psychological Association task force found “no credible evidence” that “having a single abortion causes mental health problems.”
Watch this video from Fox News’ Hannity, broadcast March 19, 2013.
<IFRAME class=video-embed height=360 src="http://mediamatters.org/embed/static/clips/2013/03/19/29318/fnc-hannity-20130319-hannitygunsabortion" frameBorder=0 width=480 scrolling=no allowfullscreen></IFRAME>
source: Raw Story
Fox News guest: Gun background checks for mental illness will include abortions
A Fox News guest on Tuesday warned that a Democratic plan to expand gun background checks would allow the Ku Klux Klan to control black people and keep firearms out of the hands of women who had an abortion.
Conservative columnist Star Parker told Fox News host Sean Hannity that she had created a web advertisement linking KKK lynchings to gun control because “the Democrats in the Senate are insistent on passing background check laws.”
“I thought it appropriate to remind Americans that we’ve been here before,” she explained. “How is it that 5 percent of the population, the KKK — six million people in a country of more than 100 million — how is it that 5 percent were able to wreak havoc over 4 million new citizens, the former slaves? And one of the ways is because they systematically — the Democrats in power, the Democrats in political power in the South — systematically passed gun control laws in black code so that blacks would not be able to exercise their right to bear arms.”
“Do you think that is the motive of some people now?” Hannity wondered.
“Come on, these are same Democrats that gave us Obamacare,” Parker insisted. “Let me tell you something about this background check discussion that we don’t get to ask about, how do we know what those qualifiers are going to be?”
“Because they’re saying if you’ve had any mental problem in your background, well, does that mean that their going to ask questions about abortion?” she added. “Because people who have had abortion, according to studies, have a tendency to have mental challenges later on.”
As Media Matters noted on Tuesday, a 2008 American Psychological Association task force found “no credible evidence” that “having a single abortion causes mental health problems.”
Watch this video from Fox News’ Hannity, broadcast March 19, 2013.
<IFRAME class=video-embed height=360 src="http://mediamatters.org/embed/static/clips/2013/03/19/29318/fnc-hannity-20130319-hannitygunsabortion" frameBorder=0 width=480 scrolling=no allowfullscreen></IFRAME>
I'm pretty sure you know he doesn't acknowledge anything black if it disagrees with him.
No switch was necessary.
For every Malcolm that has existed, there has always been a thoughtone.
let him disagree with this! It wasn't that long ago, when did "the switch" happen?
Sure wasn't. How did he die?
More importantly, How did he live? definately.......NOT LIKE A SLAVE
point 2, it wasn't the NRA that killed him
After he was killed and other high profile people, the NRA supported gun control big time.
Defending the NRA?
Is there a smiley for hitting your head against a wall?
Pay attention
I believe that as well but I can easily see how those that always engage in "slippery slope" arguments will go that route.
Doesn't matter if it's federal or state. But with the way guns from other states keep popping up in NY and Illinois, it's bound to lead to a larger, probably federal database of some kind.
Why is this so hard?
source: Salon
Is gun control racist?
A new ad from a black conservative group sees echoes of Jim Crow in proposals to expand background checks
If you’ve been paying attention to the hardline elements in the pro-gun crowd lately, you probably already know that gun control leads to genocide, and rape — but is it also racist? That’s what some on the right say, including a group of black conservatives who recently released an ad comparing background checks to Jim Crow-era laws restricting African Americans’ rights to firearms.
“A call for background checks evokes painful memories of Jim Crow and black codes,” somber text in the ad reads between black and white images of Klan rallies and a lynching. “Never again,” the controversial ad concludes, borrowing the term from Holocaust survivors.
<IFRAME height=315 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uMV1hNXt1JM" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>
The campaign, organized by Star Parker and her Center for Urban Renewal and Education (CURE) is clearly meant to be provocative, and Parker helped crank up the controversy this week when she told Sean Hannity that women who have had abortions may be prohibited from by buying guns because the procedure is linked (erroneously) with mental illness.
These kinds of provocative claims are nothing new for Parker and her segment of the black conservative movement that often seems to prize shocking people over convincing them. Parker has also compared abortion to slavery and genocide. “They are specifically targeting a human race in the society in the guise of choice. It’s Holocaust levels, it’s genocide levels,” she said on a Christian TV show.
That echoes a controversial campaign from a different black conservative group that tries to equate abortion with “black genocide,” saying it’s as bad or worse than the Holocaust.
In an interview with Salon, Daniel Landolfi, a spokesperson for CURE, defended tying gun laws to Jim Crow. The problem is not background checks (which something like 90 percent of American support), per se, but the slippery slope of what it leads to, he said.
Pointing to the mission creep of other government agencies like the TSA, he explained, “If we go by the assumption that once they get the background checks, they’re going to be satisfied, that’s being naive.”
But how is that discriminatory against African-Americans in particular, and not all gun owners? “The key is: Who is going to be disqualified from owning a gun?” he said.
Perhaps, Landolfi posited, the government will bar people from owning guns who live in high crime areas in an effort to lower crime rates. Or perhaps they’ll prohibit anyone who has had a misdemeanor conviction (currently, most states bar only violent felons from owning guns). Since African Americans disproportionately live in high crime areas and are more likely to have a criminal record, the laws would be a way of disarming them, Landolfi explained.
Despite the controversial nature of the ad, Landolfi said they’ve been “getting nothing but great support,” especially from black pastors. He noted that they haven’t had to delete any negative comments on the YouTube video because there are none.
Commenters at the white supremacist message board StormFront don’t quite know what to make of the effort, torn between their racism and opposition to gun control. “Another token conservative black,” one wrote. “I actually think that is pretty good,” another countered.
The idea that gun control has its roots in Jim Crow-era laws has long been a fringe theory on the right, but it’s never received much mainstream attention until recently. Dave Kopel, a prominent conservative legal researcher who testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee on gun control in January, wrote a paper in 2011 arguing that “in one important part of American life, Jim Crow continues to thrive—the legal foundation of restrictive and oppressive gun control that was built by Jim Crow.
But CURE’s ad has taken the meme to a new level. Fox News has given the campaign at least two segments worth of attention, and the ad got favorable coverage on many major conservative blogs when it came out earlier this month. Jim Hoft called it a “MUST SEE VIDEO,” The Blaze called it “hard-hitting.”
Still, the historical basis is less than rock solid. While some Black Codes and Jim Crow-era laws prohibited African Americans from owning guns, it was not universal. Moreover, the meme has the same chicken and egg problem with the Hitler gun control myth: Gun restrictions were a symptom of the real problem — the repression of the Jews of blacks, as the case may be — not the other way around.
Gun control advocate Ladd Everitt has a lengthy debunking of the meme from 2010, and his boss at the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, Executive Director Josh Horwitz, pointed out the legacy of Jim Crow could work in the opposite direction of what the gun rights advocates claim.
“Not only is the claim that gun rights could have stopped the Jim Crow system a falsehood, but it covers up the even more important insight that [this argument] is a continuation of a concerted effort, born and nurtured in the antebellum South, to limit the federal government’s effectiveness in protecting the democratic rights of the most vulnerable Americans,” he said.
Is gun control racist?
A new ad from a black conservative group sees echoes of Jim Crow in proposals to expand background checks
If you’ve been paying attention to the hardline elements in the pro-gun crowd lately, you probably already know that gun control leads to genocide, and rape — but is it also racist? That’s what some on the right say, including a group of black conservatives who recently released an ad comparing background checks to Jim Crow-era laws restricting African Americans’ rights to firearms.
“A call for background checks evokes painful memories of Jim Crow and black codes,” somber text in the ad reads between black and white images of Klan rallies and a lynching. “Never again,” the controversial ad concludes, borrowing the term from Holocaust survivors.
<IFRAME height=315 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uMV1hNXt1JM" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>
The campaign, organized by Star Parker and her Center for Urban Renewal and Education (CURE) is clearly meant to be provocative, and Parker helped crank up the controversy this week when she told Sean Hannity that women who have had abortions may be prohibited from by buying guns because the procedure is linked (erroneously) with mental illness.
These kinds of provocative claims are nothing new for Parker and her segment of the black conservative movement that often seems to prize shocking people over convincing them. Parker has also compared abortion to slavery and genocide. “They are specifically targeting a human race in the society in the guise of choice. It’s Holocaust levels, it’s genocide levels,” she said on a Christian TV show.
That echoes a controversial campaign from a different black conservative group that tries to equate abortion with “black genocide,” saying it’s as bad or worse than the Holocaust.
In an interview with Salon, Daniel Landolfi, a spokesperson for CURE, defended tying gun laws to Jim Crow. The problem is not background checks (which something like 90 percent of American support), per se, but the slippery slope of what it leads to, he said.
Pointing to the mission creep of other government agencies like the TSA, he explained, “If we go by the assumption that once they get the background checks, they’re going to be satisfied, that’s being naive.”
But how is that discriminatory against African-Americans in particular, and not all gun owners? “The key is: Who is going to be disqualified from owning a gun?” he said.
Perhaps, Landolfi posited, the government will bar people from owning guns who live in high crime areas in an effort to lower crime rates. Or perhaps they’ll prohibit anyone who has had a misdemeanor conviction (currently, most states bar only violent felons from owning guns). Since African Americans disproportionately live in high crime areas and are more likely to have a criminal record, the laws would be a way of disarming them, Landolfi explained.
Despite the controversial nature of the ad, Landolfi said they’ve been “getting nothing but great support,” especially from black pastors. He noted that they haven’t had to delete any negative comments on the YouTube video because there are none.
Commenters at the white supremacist message board StormFront don’t quite know what to make of the effort, torn between their racism and opposition to gun control. “Another token conservative black,” one wrote. “I actually think that is pretty good,” another countered.
The idea that gun control has its roots in Jim Crow-era laws has long been a fringe theory on the right, but it’s never received much mainstream attention until recently. Dave Kopel, a prominent conservative legal researcher who testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee on gun control in January, wrote a paper in 2011 arguing that “in one important part of American life, Jim Crow continues to thrive—the legal foundation of restrictive and oppressive gun control that was built by Jim Crow.
But CURE’s ad has taken the meme to a new level. Fox News has given the campaign at least two segments worth of attention, and the ad got favorable coverage on many major conservative blogs when it came out earlier this month. Jim Hoft called it a “MUST SEE VIDEO,” The Blaze called it “hard-hitting.”
Still, the historical basis is less than rock solid. While some Black Codes and Jim Crow-era laws prohibited African Americans from owning guns, it was not universal. Moreover, the meme has the same chicken and egg problem with the Hitler gun control myth: Gun restrictions were a symptom of the real problem — the repression of the Jews of blacks, as the case may be — not the other way around.
Gun control advocate Ladd Everitt has a lengthy debunking of the meme from 2010, and his boss at the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, Executive Director Josh Horwitz, pointed out the legacy of Jim Crow could work in the opposite direction of what the gun rights advocates claim.
“Not only is the claim that gun rights could have stopped the Jim Crow system a falsehood, but it covers up the even more important insight that [this argument] is a continuation of a concerted effort, born and nurtured in the antebellum South, to limit the federal government’s effectiveness in protecting the democratic rights of the most vulnerable Americans,” he said.
What's funny is how color blind/race neutral/whatever term you want to use universal background checks are. The Right seems more than willing to use scare tactics and all manners of tactics they lambaste the Left for supposedly using to achieve their mystifying goal of no new gun safety laws at all.
But I get it. Parker and her ilk want to cash in like the crazy White conservatives so they'll try to top them in outrageous rhetoric.
But I get it. Parker and her ilk want to cash in like the crazy White conservatives so they'll try to top them in outrageous rhetoric.
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