Basketball Heads: Who do you choose Harden or Ibaka and teams trap in the new CBA

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As we all know OKC have a choice coming soon. Harden or Ibaka. (Unless both players take a huge paycut)

http://www.hoopsworld.com/six-pack-will-presti-pick-harden-or-ibaka

1. Difficult Decisions Lie Ahead in Oklahoma City
The Oklahoma City Thunder have as bright a future as any organization in the NBA. Kevin Durant is the most potent scoring force in the entire league and is already a perennial MVP candidate. Oh, and he’s 23 years old. Russell Westbrook is one of the most dynamic and explosive point guards to come into the league in very long time. Westbrook is one of just two players to average over 23 points and five assists this season (LeBron James was the other). And Westbrook is just 23 years old. These two young studs represent the true core and foundation of the Thunder franchise. Accordingly, both Durant and Westbrook are locked up via long-term extensions exceeding $80 million.

However, the extremely intriguing question is which other key pieces will Thunder general manager Sam Presti decide to pair with his two superstars long-term? In particular, will Presti be forced to choose between two of the NBA’s more promising young players: Serge Ibaka and James Harden?

Both Ibaka and Harden can be offered contract extensions once free agency begins on July 1. However, if either player doesn’t ink an extension, they will become restricted free agents in the summer of 2013. Obviously, the Thunder’s preference would be to keep both in OKC, but that may not be a realistic possibility.

During the 2013-14 season, Durant will make $17.8 million. Westbrook will earn $15.6 million that year. Extending those two at max dollars was a no-brainer. However, the third highest-paid player on OKC is Kendrick Perkins. Presti signed Perkins to a $36 million contract extension in March of 2011, and while Presti has been an undeniably brilliant executive and team architect, that is one decision that may come back to bite him. Perkins is due $8.4 million in 2013-14, and $9.2 million the following season. Perk played 27 minutes a night for OKC during the regular season, yet averaged below seven rebounds a game for the first time since 2008 and also shot below 49 percent from the floor for just the second time in his career.

The salary cap this past season was set at $58.2 million and the cap is likely stay put next year. Assuming that number stays stable in the near future, the ramifications of three players accounting for nearly $42 million in cap space are significant.

If Harden or Ibaka are allowed to test the waters of free agency in July of 2013, rest assured they will receive immense interest and major offers from salivating suitors.

Harden is coming off the best season of his brief, but budding, career and was just named the NBA’s Sixth Man of the Year. He scored in double figures in all but four of his appearances this year and led all reserves in scoring, averaging 16.8 points. Like all great bench players, he was also incredibly efficient, posting a career-high in field-goal percentage (49.1 percent). Durant and Westbrook get the lion’s share of national media attention, but Harden was often a true x-factor for Oklahoma City; the Thunder posted a 14-1 record in the 15 games Harden scored over 20 points. And how about this factoid (courtesy of Yahoo’s Justin Phan): The only six guards to post a higher PER than James Harden in their age-22 season: Chris Paul, Oscar Robertson, Kobe Bryant, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose and Magic Johnson.

Although Ibaka will never be the equal of Harden offensively, the former brings unparalleled defense and rebounding to the table. Still raw and relatively inexperienced at 22 years of age, the sky is the limit for Ibaka’s defensive prowess. Despite limited playing time, Ibaka led the NBA in blocks – averaging a full 1.5 more rejections than second-place finisher Dwight Howard. In fact, Ibaka averaged a mind-boggling 4.8 blocks per-36 minutes this season. For his career, his per-36 minutes averages are 12.6 points and 10.2 rebounds. He is also shooting 54 percent from the floor for his career, and 70 percent from the free-throw stripe. The upside is undeniable.

Even in today’s NBA, where the new CBA is supposed to dampen spending, both Harden and Ibaka will likely fetch offers up to, and possibly exceeding, $10 million a year. Yes, the Thunder would have “Bird Rights” on both players, but even if Presti was able to pare down the roster (Eric Maynor will also become a RFA next summer and Cole Aldrich has a team option for $3.3 million for 2013) to create enough cap space before hitting the salary “apron,” which essentially works as a hard cap of $74 million; it remains unknown if OKC ownership be willing be venture that far into luxury tax territory. Historically, few “small market” teams have been willing to wade into luxury tax territory.

If, in fact, OKC is forced to choose between Ibaka and Harden, it represents an incredibly intriguing quagmire. For my money, I think I’d lean towards Ibaka. Taking nothing away from Harden, the fact of the matter is Westbrook and Durant will always supply plenty of offense. In order for the Thunder to take that next step and become NBA champions, they’ll need to get crucial, fourth-quarter stops. Losing the NBA’s best young defensive big could be catastrophic.

Presti has been a nearly flawless in his decision making thus far, but his most important decision may be forthcoming. Stay tuned…

I gotta go with Ibaka.

also the new CBA has had owners like Jim Buss, Mark Cuban and Paul Allen scared shitless here are the teams are trapped in the new CBA where it will be near impossible to improve their team with a major signing

When it comes to free agency in the NBA, much of the focus is placed on which teams have the most cap space available to spend or which teams can afford the top-tier players. These teams get the press because they get to make the glamorous signings, but at the other end of the spectrum are the teams pushing up against the luxury tax line.

These teams are faced with how to make their team better with limited resources (yes, typically because of previous trades or free agent signings that raised the payroll). Their situation may be a product of their own decisions, but it’s the situation they are in. Some teams are adamant they will not pay luxury tax. Some teams will pay the tax if the player they add is worth it.

The teams below face some difficult decisions this summer because of those decisions and because of restrictions placed on teams by the new collective bargaining agreement. For example, teams over the luxury tax don’t have the Bi-Annual Exception to offer a free agent. Those same teams are limited to a smaller Mid-Level Exception as well (three years starting at $3.09 million for 2012-13 as opposed to three years starting at $5 million). Also, that doesn’t affect just teams over the tax but also teams close to the tax; if signing a player to the $5 million MLE pushes the team over $74.3 million in salary commitments ($4 million over the tax level, or “apron”), they can only offer the smaller one.

The seven teams below face constraints this summer when it comes to trying to make their teams better, to get them over the hump.

Atlanta Hawks

The Hawks are currently sitting at $60.9 million for next season, owed to just six players. Add in five minimum salary cap holds ($2.4 million) and the 23rd pick in the draft ($1.0 million) and the Hawks are pushing the tax line, something they have been adamant they will not cross. They could use amnesty if they want to clear some room, but they aren’t a team apt to pay a player to go away. Say the Hawks sign a player to the full MLE and their first-round pick, giving them eight players under contract. They will have $66.9 million in salaries, plus four cap holds at the rookie minimum salary ($473,604), putting them at $68.8 million. If they want to sign veteran minimum salaries – like how they signed Tracy McGrady, Vladimir Radmanovic, Jason Collins, Jerry Stackhouse, Willie Green and Jannero Pargo last summer – they will be in the luxury tax because that $473,604 number becomes $854,389 (the taxable amount for a minimum salary to a player with two or more seasons of experience). That’s going to make it very difficult for the Hawks to get better than they were this past season.

Chicago Bulls

Right now the Bulls are tax payers in 2012-13, sitting on $76.0 million to 10 players. The 29th pick in the draft will add about a million and tack on a minimum salary cap hold. They can use the mini-MLE, but it will cost them $6 million to do so with the tax. They can lower their obligations significantly if they waive Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer and C.J. Watson (the latter two by July 10th). They will pay just $500,000 to Korver instead of a combined $12.6 million. However, considering how good the Bulls were this past year, does it make sense to waive those players? They would still be over the cap so they would be limited to exception money (MLE and BAE) plus minimum salary deals to replace that trio. It’s unlikely that would make the team better. Amnesty is still an option for the Bulls.

Los Angeles Lakers

The Lakers sit at $83.8 million for next season to nine players. Ramon Sessions can reduce that number by one player and $4.6 million if he declines his Player Option. Andrew Goudelock’s $0.8 million is not guaranteed, but that won’t affect whether or not the Lakers pay the tax. Andrew Bynum’s $16.1 Team Option would, but the chances the Lakers decline that are somewhere between slim and none. That means L.A.’s only way to get under the luxury tax would be use amnesty on Pau Gasol or Kobe Bryant, and that’s not happening either. This almost forces the Lakers to re-sign Sessions with Bird Rights and then use the mini-MLE on a veteran who can contribute. Then again, paying the tax has never been something that bothered this franchise.

Memphis Grizzlies

The Grizzlies have $63.4 million committed next season to 10 players. Normally that wouldn’t put them on this list, but they also potentially have three restricted free agents if they make all three Qualifying Offers by June 30th: O.J. Mayo, Marreese Speights and Darrell Arthur. If they don’t make the Qualifying Offers, they will probably lose the players as unrestricted free agents. If they do issue QOs, they may not be able to match an offer sheet signed with another team without going into luxury tax territory. Speights and Mayo in particular were key members of the team this past season (Speights because of the Zach Randolph injury). Will the Grizzlies be willing to pay what it takes to keep this team together? Amnesty is still an option for Memphis as well.

Miami HEAT

Miami has $78.1 million on the books to 11 players, which probably isn’t a surprise to anyone. In fact, their obligations already sit in the luxury tax for the next three seasons and in 2015-16 they have $65.8 million going to Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade and LeBron James. The HEAT know this – they knew it would be this way when they signed the trio – and know they now have to draft better than everyone else and get the best player they can for the mini-MLE in order to get better, just as they have the past two summers after the big signings. Nothing will change for them going forward. Miami still has the option to amnesty a player.

New York Knicks

The Knicks are an interesting case study. They have $63.0 million in commitments for 2012-13 to eight players. They could clear $1.5 million if they waived Jerome Jordan and Josh Harrelson, but that would just mean minimum salaries to replace them. J.R. Smith has a $2.6 million Player Option he will likely not invoke. Even if all of that happened, the Knicks would still be over the cap and limited only to spending exception money (MLE and BAE). However, the Knicks also have two players who can be restricted free agents and fall under the so-called “Gilbert Arenas Provision” of the CBA: Jeremy Lin and Landry Fields. What that means is that other teams can only offer these restricted free agents up to the MLE in an offer sheet, but the Knicks have to use their MLE to match such an offer sheet. The assumption is they will pay Lin the MLE, one way or another, which means there likely isn’t money left for Fields unless he is willing to sign for the BAE. Or they can use the BAE on someone else. The end result of all of this is the Knicks can’t keep Lin, Fields and Smith unless all of them combine to sign under market value. If Lin is kept for the MLE, the Knicks must fill out their roster with a BAE player and minimum salaries. Will that make them better than they were in 2011-12? Truly, the Knicks are probably the team on this list that’s the most stuck. The Hawks are limited as well, but they don’t have to face the decision of deciding which young talent they want to keep while watching the other leave.

Orlando Magic

The Magic sit at $66.7 million to 11 players. Von Wafer’s $1.1 million is non-guaranteed, as is J.J. Redick’s $6.2 million if he is waived by July 8th. If Earl Clark and Jameer Nelson both decline their Player Options, that would clear another $9.0 million, so the Magic could have just $50.4 million for seven players, but it’s not likely. The Magic sit just far enough under the tax line that they can use the full MLE, but then will lose the BAE (even if they waive Wafer). Considering the pressure being placed – both internally and externally – on the Magic front office to make the “right” decisions leading to a re-signed Dwight Howard, that means they must make the right decisions.
 
This has been a huge sports radio topic here in OKC. The word is they will amnesty Perk and keep Ibaka and Harden. That is contingent on The Beard taking slightly less than he can get elsewhere as Lebron did.
 
This has been a huge sports radio topic here in OKC. The word is they will amnesty Perk and keep Ibaka and Harden. That is contingent on The Beard taking slightly less than he can get elsewhere as Lebron did.

Honestly I can see Harden take less even though I been reading people have been advising him not to.

Thanks for the info that makes sense. Perkins might have to be a casualty. Amnesty Perk and get both players to take a little less. This way OKC can avoid being one of the teams in CBA hell in 2014
 
Dont take a huge paycut.....Go get paid harden.......get ur paper today....they will not love you tomorrow.....

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
I'd probably go with Harden

Regardless they need another scorer, or at least a Jeff Green type

They need to go after someone with their mid level
 
Dont take a huge paycut.....Go get paid harden.......get ur paper today....they will not love you tomorrow.....

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

:yes:

He deserves to get paid more and start, but dude seem real humble so I'm not sure where his head will be.
 
I'd keep Harden if it was absolutely one or the other. And then maybe make a run at somebody like Asik or even Oden. If I'm getting rid of anybody it would be Perkins.
 
:yes:

He deserves to get paid more and start, but dude seem real humble so I'm not sure where his head will be.

exactly look at ben gordon. He went for money and has been in a horrible situation and the Pistons can't wait to get rid of him.

OKC reminds me of the Spurs. Manu Tim and Tony took paycuts (nothing huge) to remain together and help keep their team under the cap.

Harden is in the perfect situation. Joe Johnson went for his money but we found out he isn't a player that is worth the money or can carry a team.
 
my bulls :smh: need a scorer. I have no idea what they can do to make their team better. :confused: I don't want to see anybody go but if so brewer and watson can def be replace also w/ kyle korver but we need that three man so i opt for him to stay. Harden would be a good look for the bulls but i don't think they can afford him. :smh:
 
If I absolutely have to pick one or the other, Im keeping Ibaka. They simply need his inside presence more.

The thing is, even if you amnesty Perkins, you still have to ask BOTH Ibaka and Harden to take less. Lots of teams are looking for guys with their skill sets. The offers coming their way will be HUGE, and if I was either guy's agent, there is no way Im not testing free agency.
 
If I absolutely have to pick one or the other, Im keeping Ibaka. They simply need his inside presence more.

The thing is, even if you amnesty Perkins, you still have to ask BOTH Ibaka and Harden to take less. Lots of teams are looking for guys with their skill sets. The offers coming their way will be HUGE, and if I was either guy's agent, there is no way Im not testing free agency.

Exactly. There agents will be looking iut for their players best interest
 
I'm also in agreement of them keeping Ibakamainly because they need that defensive pressence in the paint, Harden should go to the highest bidder because you never know who much longer he'll be able to play, especially if he keeps elbowed in the head by World Peace
 
I think the Lakers going to go after Harden hard... he's a perfect fit to take over the reigns from Kobe.
 
I agree let Perk get Amnisted he will prob got back to the smelltics

and speaking on MIA... they have enough to add mle players.. Nash will def take a paycut cause he want that ring. Also they can go after Novak for 2.5 mill.. way more than he will get on the open market especially how MIA nutralized him in the playoffs.. so teams will not be knocking down his door to sign him to a major deal.

for him its either stay in NY but I think NY will let him walk.. He needs a player to get him the rock off screens.. MIA will be the best fit for him especially if they sign Nash.
 
:hmm::hmm::hmm:.....Harden's going to the Net's isn't he?

D-Will, Harden, Dwight. THAT's what's going to happen.

:lol::lol::lol::lol: who said that??? Wow nothing personal but you seem to be salty because the Bulls are at home watching the playoffs along with the Nets.

freeman-he-mad.jpg


You letting your emotions show. No one mention the Nets. They won't even have the cap space to sign Harden. I think you should focus on how your team will get better because the way the Heat is shaping up the Bulls look like they will be the Knicks and Pacers of the 90. A great team but when the playoffs come will likely lose to the same team in their conference.

The Heat. Let's keep it on basketball.
 
I think the Lakers going to go after Harden hard... he's a perfect fit to take over the reigns from Kobe.

No cap space. The Lakers would have to amnesty Kobe and not resign Bynum in order to have space to offer Harden money.


The new CBA is proving to be what Stern wanted. If a player wants max dollars he will have to likely entertain offers from teams with cap space. Meaning lower teams.

One reason I feel Harden will take a cut and stay with OKC. Though I will say this if he doesn't sign an extension by november ummmmmm I forgot the deadline then I think he will be gone or force OKC hand to give him a max contract
 
No cap space. The Lakers would have to amnesty Kobe and not resign Bynum in order to have space to offer Harden money.


The new CBA is proving to be what Stern wanted. If a player wants max dollars he will have to likely entertain offers from teams with cap space. Meaning lower teams.

One reason I feel Harden will take a cut and stay with OKC. Though I will say this if he doesn't sign an extension by november ummmmmm I forgot the deadline then I think he will be gone or force OKC hand to give him a max contract

Stern is a bitch...

all the lower teams will have cap space.. but its only reserved for niggas who don't give a fuck about winning.. ie Howard and Melo..

I think its going to come to a point where cats take a pay cut to stay on contenders and make up the lost dollars in endorsements
 
Stern is a bitch...

all the lower teams will have cap space.. but its only reserved for niggas who don't give a fuck about winning.. ie Howard and Melo..

I think its going to come to a point where cats take a pay cut to stay on contenders and make up the lost dollars in endorsements

Thing is how many players are marketable??? Players like Lebron and Wade are willing but look at what Dwill said.

Deron has said he will let his agent Jeff Schwartz handle the negotiations. (Which is code for get him the biggest deal he can get.) Asked if there was a perfect situation for him in free agency, Deron Williams replied, "No, not with enough cap space to sign a max player" Williams was the first player to sign overseas during the lockout for 5 million.

Deron could sign for less to join a contender but as he just stated he isn't interested. He wants money first. This is what they are hoping will be the case for others. Legal Tender tried to put me on this but I didn't listen. I thought some players would be willing to sacrifice 30 mil in order to win
 
Stern actually think this is going to make a BETTER NBA? The Hornets and Bobcats will STILL never be shit. Parity never has and never will work in the NBA.
 
Stern actually think this is going to make a BETTER NBA? The Hornets and Bobcats will STILL never be shit. Parity never has and never will work in the NBA.

:lol::lol::lol:

exactly

There is no such thing as Parity when your league is 66 years old and two teams have 33 championships between them.
 
:lol::lol::lol::lol: who said that??? Wow nothing personal but you seem to be salty because the Bulls are at home watching the playoffs along with the Nets.

freeman-he-mad.jpg


You letting your emotions show. No one mention the Nets. They won't even have the cap space to sign Harden. I think you should focus on how your team will get better because the way the Heat is shaping up the Bulls look like they will be the Knicks and Pacers of the 90. A great team but when the playoffs come will likely lose to the same team in their conference.

The Heat. Let's keep it on basketball.

OK...where is all this coming from? :dunno:
You're acting like some nigga just walked in on you fuckin your girl.

Anyway I see OKC trading Harden to either a weak down in the dump team (ie- Pistons or Raptors)or a weak team that could get good with the right moves (such as the Nets or Wolves).

Did I pull the wrong curtain?
Jesus...:smh:
 
OK...where is all this coming from? :dunno:
You're acting like some nigga just walked in on you fuckin your girl.

Anyway I see OKC trading Harden to either a weak down in the dump team (ie- Pistons or Raptors)or a weak team that could get good with the right moves (such as the Nets or Wolves).

Did I pull the wrong curtain?
Jesus...:smh:

that's what I was asking you brought up the Nets Dwight and Deron in a thread speaking about James Harden. Who said Harden would be on the Nets. Who said he was even an option. I didn't get your remark.

Maybe I read your comment wrong but it seem like you were trying to say that I was saying Harden is going to join Dwight and Deron with the Nets. Where it's not even a lock those two will be there. If I'm wrong I apologize. Again your comment came out of no where and made no sense
 
Ibaka... To me its all about defense first n he brings that presence to a team that needs that one enforcer!
 
that's what I was asking you brought up the Nets Dwight and Deron in a thread speaking about James Harden. Who said Harden would be on the Nets. Who said he was even an option. I didn't get your remark.

Maybe I read your comment wrong but it seem like you were trying to say that I was saying Harden is going to join Dwight and Deron with the Nets. Where it's not even a lock those two will be there. If I'm wrong I apologize. Again your comment came out of no where and made no sense

If you say so.
 
Stern actually think this is going to make a BETTER NBA? The Hornets and Bobcats will STILL never be shit. Parity never has and never will work in the NBA.

:lol::lol::lol:

exactly

There is no such thing as Parity when your league is 66 years old and two teams have 33 championships between them.


The sad truth but parity is the only thing that will save the NBA in my opinion. I mean think about it, more teams contending draws more casual fan interest. That's why the MLB added a extra wild card. The most common reason that most casual fans don't watch the NBA is because they don't care to see the same teams winning all the time. What's the fun of reading a book if you already know the ending? Hardcore fans loved the Celtics-Lakers rivalry but I would've hated it. Glad I wasn't born then.:smh:

I mean I have always said that I would love to see parity in the NBA in which most folks replied saying parity won't work in the NBA. Well if that is true than the NBA will never evolve as a spectator sport. The intrigue of the Lakers and Celtics is almost gone. Magic aint walking through that door and neither is Bird.

Kobe is near retirement, and honestly who outside of LA will want to watch a Lakers team without Kobe? The NBA doesn't have that many stars and the stars that the NBA does have play on the same teams nowadays.

The NBA's high ratings last year I think were due to the rising of a new breed in the NBA. The Thunder, Heat, Grizzlies, Mavs winning again. This year the NBA has benefited from the Clippers, Knicks, and even the Nuggets in the early going and now in the playoffs, giving the fans something to talk about and be exited about.

The NBA needs parity and all y'all old nostalgic folks need to adopt and accept it. Seriously, do you think that the Heat and Thunder would be acceptable to watch year after year?
 
If you say so.

my bad so you didn't say

:hmm::hmm::hmm:.....Harden's going to the Net's isn't he?

D-Will, Harden, Dwight. THAT's what's going to happen.

Cause again this statement seems strange. No one brought up the Nets and from past post you seem to know what you talking about concern basketball so it seem weird to bring up a scenario like this unless it was to take a shot at me.

Because no way could Harden Dwight and Deron be on the same team.

So again if you really felt that Deron Harden and Dwight will end up on the Nets I will apologize cause I'm in the wrong
 
Presti signed Perkins to a $36 million contract extension in March of 2011, and while Presti has been an undeniably brilliant executive and team architect, that is one decision that may come back to bite him.
This is the albatross around the neck of the franchise i said it would be when they made this ridiculous deal. The trade was questionable as Perk was always a poor fit, but the contract was flat out horrendous, especially considering Bostons last official offer was 4years for 22million (though rumors were of 4yrs for 30million).

OKC has two options= 1) Let Harden walk. Keep Serge, and replace Harden with low cost offensive minded players (Jeff Green can get a minimum deal to come back if his health allows). 2) Amnesty Perk and hope James and Ibaka will take deals similar to the one they gave Perk.
 
Keep Harden.

People are mesmerized by the block totals for Ibaka when really he is currently a mediocre defender.

Also, Harden better not fall for that bullshit over fuzzy feelings and team loyalty. This is a business...........at least thats what teams and GM's are quick to trot out when they are ready to trade your ass, amnesty your ass or you pick up an injury......

Look after your financial future.
 
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