Proof hotshotting doesn't work (as if we needed more)

SUMMERSLAM BUYRATE WAY DOWN
by Mike Johnson @ 8:15 PM on 9/25/2011

WWE updated their Key Performance Indicators. The preliminary buyrate is only 301,000 buys, WAY below the 2010 buyrate. Based on the breakdown, the buyrate looks to be 174,000 in North America and 127.000 from International markets.
In 2010, the PPV drew 350,00 buys. In 2009, the PPV drew 369,000 buys.

Don't forget the fact that they stupidly promoted only one match during the entire SS build-up.

Savage was the top guy in 88 and the Warrior in 90. Austin missed the first quarter of 2000 with his injuries and they brought him back slowly but by the end of the year, Austin was the top guy again. He then won the Rumble for 01 and Mania over Rock.

They made him the top guy again in wrestling but Rock was way more popular than Austin universally. Rock was on everything from tv shows MTV and that damn Wyclef song:lol:
 
Don't forget the fact that they stupidly promoted only one match during the entire SS build-up.

Yep. They use up so much energy worrying about the main event, they neglect, to their own detriment, what should be a good mid card collection of talent. Then they wonder why they can't get over later.


They made him the top guy again in wrestling but Rock was way more popular than Austin universally. Rock was on everything from tv shows MTV and that damn Wyclef song:lol:

All that counts is wrestling. Austin was out, Rock was able to elevate and remain in the top spot. I felt when Austin came back, they were sharing it instead of it just being Austin as the main guy.
Austin was a guest star on a few tv shows during that time. Being a WWF star was hot at the time.
I liked that song:D Stop hatin'.
 
They didn't even have the IC or the US championships on the line at Summerslam, what sense did that make?
 
All that counts is wrestling. Austin was out, Rock was able to elevate and remain in the top spot. I felt when Austin came back, they were sharing it instead of it just being Austin as the main guy.
Austin was a guest star on a few tv shows during that time. Being a WWF star was hot at the time.
I liked that song:D Stop hatin'.

If that's the case then Savage Sting Punk would've been the top guys, but the reason Hulk & Rock are such legends is how much they accomplished outside of wrestling. Austin was the top guy at one point but let's not make it seem like Rock didn't step up and completely take over, i mean dude has a showed named after his catchphrase.
 
They didn't even have the IC or the US championships on the line at Summerslam, what sense did that make?

None.

If that's the case then Savage Sting Punk would've been the top guys, but the reason Hulk & Rock are such legends is how much they accomplished outside of wrestling. Austin was the top guy at one point but let's not make it seem like Rock didn't step up and completely take over, i mean dude has a showed named after his catchphrase.


Rock didn't completely take over. Once they were ready to go with Austin again, Austin was back on top. They went to the Invasion right after Mania and what Austin would do was a focal point. Rock was filming "The Mummy Returns" and when he came back, he was feuding with Booker T, who they made look like a jobber while Austin got Kurt Angle in the top feud.
I do think it's more accurate to say he passed Austin in 2002 but that was as Austin's body was breaking down and he couldn't go full out, full time anymore.
 
Rock didn't completely take over. Once they were ready to go with Austin again, Austin was back on top. They went to the Invasion right after Mania and what Austin would do was a focal point. Rock was filming "The Mummy Returns" and when he came back, he was feuding with Booker T, who they made look like a jobber while Austin got Kurt Angle in the top feud.
I do think it's more accurate to say he passed Austin in 2002 but that was as Austin's body was breaking down and he couldn't go full out, full time anymore.

I had to highlight this whole statement to point out how much you proved my point. Austin became the top guy again because Rock left to film and the Invasion angle was one of the worst ideas they've ever had. It could've been great but without Sting, Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Hall and Flair it was DOA. Austin/Angle was a good but not great feud mainly because of the shit match at Unforgiven(which also had the infamous B.O.D vs Kronik match), Rock & Booker T had a decent feud that had what i though was a damn good Summerslam match. Rock didn't pass Austin in 02 because both were winding down anyway and that was really the year of Lesnar/Angle and the return of HBK, but come on Dave you know im right in saying Rock was the man in 2000 and in my opinion Taker was #2. BTW off topic but am i the only one that remembers Taker's choice of clothing at Fully Loaded 2000, my whole family:lol:at that shit
 
I had to highlight this whole statement to point out how much you proved my point. Austin became the top guy again because Rock left to film and the Invasion angle was one of the worst ideas they've ever had. It could've been great but without Sting, Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Hall and Flair it was DOA. Austin/Angle was a good but not great feud mainly because of the shit match at Unforgiven(which also had the infamous B.O.D vs Kronik match), Rock & Booker T had a decent feud that had what i though was a damn good Summerslam match. Rock didn't pass Austin in 02 because both were winding down anyway and that was really the year of Lesnar/Angle and the return of HBK, but come on Dave you know im right in saying Rock was the man in 2000 and in my opinion Taker was #2. BTW off topic but am i the only one that remembers Taker's choice of clothing at Fully Loaded 2000, my whole family:lol:at that shit

I'm glad Taker had gotten away from the "Dead Man" gimmick for a while but I was never a big fan of "Booger Red" (remember that nickname?:D)
2000 was Rock's year but he was sharing it with HHH and to a lesser extent with Taker. But as soon as Austin was ready to go, he was put back in the top spot.
 
I'm glad Taker had gotten away from the "Dead Man" gimmick for a while but I was never a big fan of "Booger Red" (remember that nickname?:D)
2000 was Rock's year but he was sharing it with HHH and to a lesser extent with Taker. But as soon as Austin was ready to go, he was put back in the top spot.

:angry:Yes big evil was a much better nickname and his theme song was great(The instrumental version)also "The Deadman" to me became corny when i turned 13 and i thought when he became "99 Ministry Taker" that's when he really took off, but it sucked that he got injured though.

HHH was the top heel but i've always felt he needed Foley Rock Austin way more than they needed him.
 
:angry:Yes big evil was a much better nickname and his theme song was great(The instrumental version)also "The Deadman" to me became corny when i turned 13 and i thought when he became "99 Ministry Taker" that's when he really took off, but it sucked that he got injured though.

HHH was the top heel but i've always felt he needed Foley Rock Austin way more than they needed him.

He did, I agree. They were ahead of him so they were used to elevate him from the midcard. He was no longer the guy Shawn Michaels said on Raw, "He only hangs around World champions, he's never been one."
WWE/F used to be good at elevating guys. Now when they fuck up, it's the boys' fault even though management controls everything more now than at any other time I can remember.
 
He did, I agree. They were ahead of him so they were used to elevate him from the midcard. He was no longer the guy Shawn Michaels said on Raw, "He only hangs around World champions, he's never been one."
WWE/F used to be good at elevating guys. Now when they fuck up, it's the boys' fault even though management controls everything more now than at any other time I can remember.

Yep, "We have nothing for you" translates into "My job is more important than yours even though i fucked up":smh:
 
Yep, "We have nothing for you" translates into "My job is more important than yours even though i fucked up":smh:

:yes: Bill Watts fired Ernie Ladd, after years of success as booker and talent, because he couldn't come up with something for Terry Allen-Magnum TA but now Vince fires the wrestlers when his writers can't find something for them, even though he has hours and hours of tv time to fill.

Beth Phoenix is getting another shot? There are two Divas of Doom, why not give a shot to Natalya and come back to Beth?
 
:yes: Bill Watts fired Ernie Ladd, after years of success as booker and talent, because he couldn't come up with something for Terry Allen-Magnum TA but now Vince fires the wrestlers when his writers can't find something for them, even though he has hours and hours of tv time to fill.

Beth Phoenix is getting another shot? There are two Divas of Doom, why not give a shot to Natalya and come back to Beth?

I've always been a fan of Ernie Ladd although i had to look at old vhs tapes my uncle kept to watch him. Guys like him a Brody were favorites of mine because they came off real and they were legit badass unlike so called badasses like Orton & HHH. Vince will fire a wrestler if he can't make a gimmick like Assy McAss work because he thought it was a million dollar idea:smh:

Beth may be getting another shot because of Punk idk, but they might be setting up for a storyline with Beth and Nattie.
 
Another thing that helped the Rock in 2000 he got better as a worker with the matches with Angle and Benoit
 
True, I can never look at Benoit the same but he was one of the greatest pure wrestlers of all time.

Yep Shameful. But i will say this about the Rock he use to apply the worst sharpshooter i ever saw lol like Randy Orton doing the Lou Thesz Press lol
 
Yep Shameful. But i will say this about the Rock he use to apply the worst sharpshooter i ever saw lol like Randy Orton doing the Lou Thesz Press lol

I use to call Rock's Sharpshooter the "Ankle Shooter":lol:

This song reminds me of the good old days back when Smackdown was killing Raw
 
Another thing that helped the Rock in 2000 he got better as a worker with the matches with Angle and Benoit

Yep.

I've always been a fan of Ernie Ladd although i had to look at old vhs tapes my uncle kept to watch him. Guys like him a Brody were favorites of mine because they came off real and they were legit badass unlike so called badasses like Orton & HHH. Vince will fire a wrestler if he can't make a gimmick like Assy McAss work because he thought it was a million dollar idea:smh:

Beth may be getting another shot because of Punk idk, but they might be setting up for a storyline with Beth and Nattie.

Amen on that Vince shit.

Maybe on Beth and Nattie but it would be crazy to break them up any time soon.

True, I can never look at Benoit the same but he was one of the greatest pure wrestlers of all time.


Yep. Same with Angle, though he can be batshit at times too.

Yep Shameful. But i will say this about the Rock he use to apply the worst sharpshooter i ever saw lol like Randy Orton doing the Lou Thesz Press lol

:lol::lol::lol: So we can add that to the Orton Thesz Press and the Cena STF (damn, can nobody pull off a Thesz move anymore, that's two right there).

I will partially take back what I said about WWE not being able to elevate guys. They have done good jobs with Miz and Mark Henry in the last year and they seem to be working something out with Cody Rhodes but the list of failures is much longer than the list of successes: Drew McIntyre, Dolph Ziggler, Wade Barrett, Kofi Kingston, Jack Swagger, Tyson Kidd, John Morrison (he's partly to blame for his shit), Chris Masters, Luke Gallows, and on and on. Everyone doesnt have to be world champ but Tito Santana, Greg Valentine, Rick Steamboat, HonkyTonk Man, Magnificent Muraco are all HoFers and none of them were world champs. Can you see any of the guys in the midcard now being thought of on the same level?
 
Yep.



Amen on that Vince shit.

Maybe on Beth and Nattie but it would be crazy to break them up any time soon.




Yep. Same with Angle, though he can be batshit at times too.



:lol::lol::lol: So we can add that to the Orton Thesz Press and the Cena STF (damn, can nobody pull off a Thesz move anymore, that's two right there).

I will partially take back what I said about WWE not being able to elevate guys. They have done good jobs with Miz and Mark Henry in the last year and they seem to be working something out with Cody Rhodes but the list of failures is much longer than the list of successes: Drew McIntyre, Dolph Ziggler, Wade Barrett, Kofi Kingston, Jack Swagger, Tyson Kidd, John Morrison (he's partly to blame for his shit), Chris Masters, Luke Gallows, and on and on. Everyone doesnt have to be world champ but Tito Santana, Greg Valentine, Rick Steamboat, HonkyTonk Man, Magnificent Muraco are all HoFers and none of them were world champs. Can you see any of the guys in the midcard now being thought of on the same level?

Re-read that line you type about Beth/Nattie and then remember what company we're talking about.

Kofi could've easily been that guy but because of Orton and his bitch tendencies that ship has probably sailed.
 
Re-read that line you type about Beth/Nattie and then remember what company we're talking about.

Kofi could've easily been that guy but because of Orton and his bitch tendencies that ship has probably sailed.

Yep that ship has sailed and its a damn shame also. Another thing about Vince I just think is full of shit. Its that he want somebody that looks Bad Ass and that why Morrison's Push was stalled ( and him acting like a simp didn't help). But the Miz pushed as a Badass is a joke when he was WWE champ was a joke lol.
 
I will partially take back what I said about WWE not being able to elevate guys. They have done good jobs with Miz and Mark Henry in the last year and they seem to be working something out with Cody Rhodes but the list of failures is much longer than the list of successes: Drew McIntyre, Dolph Ziggler, Wade Barrett, Kofi Kingston, Jack Swagger, Tyson Kidd, John Morrison (he's partly to blame for his shit), Chris Masters, Luke Gallows, and on and on. Everyone doesnt have to be world champ but Tito Santana, Greg Valentine, Rick Steamboat, HonkyTonk Man, Magnificent Muraco are all HoFers and none of them were world champs. Can you see any of the guys in the midcard now being thought of on the same level?

The WWE has done a great job with Mark Henry for the very reason that they fucked up with the other guys you mentioned.They gave a push and continued it without any stalling.They even put him in the ring with one of their golden boys and had him win clean.These other guys didn't get that decisive win to put them over.Swagger got to beat Orton but only after jobbing him out while he was World Champ.McIntyre was undefeated but never got a signature win.Barrett was in great shape but they decided to have Nexus lose too early in their run and didn't put the belt on Barrett when it would've been easiest to pull it off and then made him look like a fool to end his feud with Cena.Kidd got little chance to do shit after his turn.One week he has muscle and is talking reckless on Raw,the next him and his muscle are getting their asses kicked.And with the amount of jobbing they had Kofi do he should be eligible for overtime.
If you're going to push a guy sustain the push.

Also am I the only guy who finds this HHH authority figure shit inconsistent.On one hand he's telling Cody about how he got Orton back for attacking his wife and on the other he's fining guys for touching refs and announcers things that he did on a regular basis.For awhile he was beating Earl Hebner's ass every week.And he's beaten Jim Ross' ass more times than most people can count including "breaking his arm".


 
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The WWE has done a great job with Mark Henry for the very reason that they fucked up with the other guys you mentioned.They gave a push and continued it without any stalling.They even put him in the ring with one of their golden boys and had him win clean.These other guys didn't get that decisive win to put them over.Swagger got to beat Orton but only after jobbing him out while he was World Champ.McIntyre was undefeated but never got a signature win.Barrett was in great shape but they decided to have Nexus lose too early in their run and didn't put the belt on Barrett when it would've been easiest to pull it off and then made him look like a fool to end his feud with Cena.Kidd got little chance to do shit after his turn.One week he has muscle and is talking reckless on Raw,the next him and his muscle are getting their asses kicked.And with the amount of jobbing they had Kofi do he should be eligible for overtime.
If you're going to push a guy sustain the push.

Also am I the only guy who finds this HHH authority figure shit inconsistent.On one hand he's telling Cody about how he got Orton back for attacking his wife and on the other he's fining guys for touching refs and announcers things that he did on a regular basis.For awhile he was beating Earl Hebner's ass every week.And he's beaten Jim Ross' ass more times than most people can count including "breaking his arm".




This is the WWE we're talking about. Those events you posted never happened :rolleyes::rolleyes: Just like this never happened...:hmm:


:lol::lol:
 
Yep that ship has sailed and its a damn shame also. Another thing about Vince I just think is full of shit. Its that he want somebody that looks Bad Ass and that why Morrison's Push was stalled ( and him acting like a simp didn't help). But the Miz pushed as a Badass is a joke when he was WWE champ was a joke lol.


I thought the Miz' push was great. They gave him a feud with Lawler, a guy who could bring him along and get him over without sacificing anyone, and he got all the heat on Cena going into Mania and still won. Miz is awesome.

This is the WWE we're talking about. Those events you posted never happened :rolleyes::rolleyes: Just like this never happened...:hmm:


:lol::lol:


That's enough hating on Shockmaster, the shit is historic!:angry:

Now Davey Boy's "We're cooking!" promo had me :lol::lol::lol:. I forgot how bad that was.
 
I thought the Miz' push was great. They gave him a feud with Lawler, a guy who could bring him along and get him over without sacificing anyone, and he got all the heat on Cena going into Mania and still won. Miz is awesome.



That's enough hating on Shockmaster, the shit is historic!:angry:

Now Davey Boy's "We're cooking!" promo had me :lol::lol::lol:. I forgot how bad that was.

I think it was the Michael Cole dick riding that was fuckin annoying . And i never bought him as WWE champ lol
 
I think it was the Michael Cole dick riding that was fuckin annoying . And i never bought him as WWE champ lol

The Cole shit was over the top and a disaster which is why they have backed down on it some.

If you didn't, I understand but I was converted. Like Alberto, they didn't build him up before he cashed in the briefcase and once he was champ he had that horrible match with Randy Orton (like everyone else at that time) but the Lawler feud and his beating on Cena week after week was good stuff. I'm still surprised he beat Cena at Mania.
 
This is why I hate the Hell in the Cell ppv: it forces HitC matches for feuds that have no build. If they had left Cena and Punk alone, they could have had a great one on one HitC match AND THEN Alberto cashes in on the winner after the match. But instead we have a three way that has no business being in a Cell match.
Henry and Orton could be Cell worthy but they probably should have cut Christian-Orton short and gotten the Henry feud going sooner.

Anyway, enough bitching, name your favorite Cell match
I had to think about it and I went with Taker vs Edge. Taker and Foley has the two biggest spots but it's not the best match since one of them was unconscious for most of it. HHH vs Batista was pretty good too.
 
This is why I hate the Hell in the Cell ppv: it forces HitC matches for feuds that have no build. If they had left Cena and Punk alone, they could have had a great one on one HitC match AND THEN Alberto cashes in on the winner after the match. But instead we have a three way that has no business being in a Cell match.
Henry and Orton could be Cell worthy but they probably should have cut Christian-Orton short and gotten the Henry feud going sooner.

Anyway, enough bitching, name your favorite Cell match
I had to think about it and I went with Taker vs Edge. Taker and Foley has the two biggest spots but it's not the best match since one of them was unconscious for most of it. HHH vs Batista was pretty good too.

Hotshotting will always kill an angle which is why they never work, i mean how long were we left wondering if Taker & Kane were in cahoots?(i still laugh at how Vince would say that)

As far as best HIAC nothing will ever top Taker vs HBK although Michaels was getting up too quickly at times. Aside from that one i would have to say the Armageddon 2000 one was my 2nd followed by Taker/Foley. I hated how HHH tried to make that match his when they've admitted they had Taker in mind when they came up with it.
 
Hotshotting will always kill an angle which is why they never work, i mean how long were we left wondering if Taker & Kane were in cahoots?(i still laugh at how Vince would say that)


They're trying to do that with the Conspiracy angle with Nash and Lauranitis but, like Russo and Bischoff in TNA, it comes off as trying to recreate the 90s instead of going in different, fresh ways. Cena-Punk was red hot, go with it. Leave Punk as a heel and finally make Cena an underdog, like Punk has his number, and let them headline Hell in the Cell for the third match. How is this hard?

As far as best HIAC nothing will ever top Taker vs HBK although Michaels was getting up too quickly at times. Aside from that one i would have to say the Armageddon 2000 one was my 2nd followed by Taker/Foley. I hated how HHH tried to make that match his when they've admitted they had Taker in mind when they came up with it.

Taker-Michaels was good.
I checked and HHH's record in Cell matches is much better than Taker's. They don't really say it but that is "his" match more than Taker's.
 
Taker-Michaels was good.
I checked and HHH's record in Cell matches is much better than Taker's. They don't really say it but that is "his" match more than Taker's.

Record doesn't matter history does and most highlights make Taker the focal point followed by the clip of HHH doing a back body drop to Foley.
 
This is why the WWE is struggling as a business.Short term thinking in terms of their product,not being willing to go all the way in establishing new stars even at the expense of their current top stars who honestly can afford to take a loss these gimmick centric PPV's like Hell in a Cell which is damaged because you're taking away the feeling that the match is something special.And while it's bad enough to have a PPV every month they're doing this 2 weeks after the previous PPV with little to no build.And then the lack of blood takes away from the match as well which is characterized as a match that will take years off of a top guy's career and as absolutely brutal.

I haven't seen most of the HIAC's but I enjoyed Takers matches with Edge and with Brock Lesnar.
 
This is why I hate the Hell in the Cell ppv: it forces HitC matches for feuds that have no build. If they had left Cena and Punk alone, they could have had a great one on one HitC match AND THEN Alberto cashes in on the winner after the match. But instead we have a three way that has no business being in a Cell match.
Henry and Orton could be Cell worthy but they probably should have cut Christian-Orton short and gotten the Henry feud going sooner.

Anyway, enough bitching, name your favorite Cell match
I had to think about it and I went with Taker vs Edge. Taker and Foley has the two biggest spots but it's not the best match since one of them was unconscious for most of it. HHH vs Batista was pretty good too.
Taker-HBK, and Taker-Brock
 
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