New Orleans Police Shoot 6; 5 Dead

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
Just got a call from a reliable source on the ground in N.O. who says police engaged men carrying guns on a bridge shooting 6 or 7 and that 4 or 5 were probably dead.
 
QueEx said:
Just got a call from a reliable source on the ground in N.O. who says police engaged men carrying guns on a bridge shooting 6 or 7 and that 4 or 5 were probably dead.

Sounds like Fallujah. :(
 
turns out its true.

<font size="6"><center>Police shoot to death
at least six in New Orleans</font size></center>

<font size="4"><center>Shootings take place on Danziger Bridge</font size></center>

By BREAKING NEWS
sourceAP.gif

Updated: 5:01 p.m. ET Sept. 4, 2005
NEW ORLEANS - Police shot eight people carrying guns on a New Orleans bridge Sunday, killing five or six of them, a deputy chief said.

Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said the shootings took place on the Danziger Bridge, which connects Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River.

He said he had no other details.

This breaking story will be updated.
 
The more shit changes the more it stays the same!!!!!!

Seriously, good guys and bad guys are armed. They want to disarm folks and send them around 20000 people holed up in a dome where you get jumped for an avian water.

Alot of people do not want to leave, hell they survived for aweek without the fuckers they like we are staying.

Then they saying contractprs got bust at, its crazy. Peole have generators and are scared to turn them on cause thye AINT armed.

ALso there are stories of neighbors coming together and forming "groups" ala survivor, handing out tasks and survivng just fine, even protecting against real looters.
 
gene cisco said:
The more shit changes the more it stays the same!!!!!!

Seriously, good guys and bad guys are armed. They want to disarm folks and send them around 20000 people holed up in a dome where you get jumped for an avian water.

Alot of people do not want to leave, hell they survived for aweek without the fuckers they like we are staying.

Then they saying contractprs got bust at, its crazy. Peole have generators and are scared to turn them on cause thye AINT armed.

ALso there are stories of neighbors coming together and forming "groups" ala survivor, handing out tasks and survivng just fine, even protecting against real looters.

That doesn't sound good, sounds like some Lord of the Flies type of shit.
 
<font size="5"><center>Mercenaries guard homes of the rich in New Orleans</font size></center>

Jamie Wilson in New Orleans
Monday September 12, 2005
The Guardian


Hundreds of mercenaries have descended on New Orleans to guard the property of the city's millionaires from looters.
The heavily armed men, employed by private military companies including Blackwater and ISI, are part of the militarisation of a city which had a reputation for being one of the most relaxed and easy-going in America.

After scenes of looting and lawlessness in the days immediately after Hurricane Katrina struck, New Orleans has turned into an armed camp, patrolled by thousands of local, state and federal law enforcement officers, as well as 70,000 national guard troops and active-duty soldiers now based in the region.

Blackwater, one of the fastest-growing private security firms in the world, which achieved global prominence last year when four of its men were killed and their bodies mutilated in the Iraqi city of Falluja, has set up camp in the back garden of a vast mansion in the wealthy Uptown district of the city.
David Reagan, 52, a semi-retired US army colonel from Huntsville, Alabama, who fought in the first Gulf war and is commander of Blackwater's operations in the city, refused to say how many men he had in New Orleans but indicated it was in the hundreds.

Asked if they had encountered many looters so far, Mr Reagan said that the sight of his heavily armed men - a pump action shotgun was propped against the wall near to where he was standing - was enough to put most people off.

Two Israeli mercenaries from ISI, another private military company, were guarding Audubon Place, a gated community. Wearing bulletproof vests, they were carrying M16 assault rifles.

Gill, 40, and Yovi, 42, who refused to give their surnames, said they were army veterans of the Israeli war in Lebanon, but had been living in Houston for 17 years. They had been hired by Jimmy Reiss, a descendant of an old New Orleans family who made his fortune selling electronic systems to shipbuilders. They had been flown by private jet to Baton Rouge, the capital of Louisiana, and then helicoptered to Audubon Place, they said.

"I spoke to one of the other owners on the telephone earlier in the week," Yovi said. "I told him how the water had stopped just at the back gate. God watches out for the rich people, I guess."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/story/0,16441,1567656,00.html
 
<font size="5"><center>7 N.O. cops indicted in killings on bridge</font size>
<font size="4">SHOOTING DEATHS CAME 6 DAYS AFTER KATRINA </font size></center>


Times Picayune
Friday, December 29, 2006
By Laura Maggi

Seven New Orleans police officers were indicted Thursday on an array of murder and attempted-murder charges stemming from a shooting on the Danziger Bridge six days after Hurricane Katrina, which victims have portrayed as an ambush by police that left two dead and four wounded.

The state grand jury refuted the New Orleans Police Department account of what happened on Sept. 4, 2005, which had been portrayed by officers as an appropriate response to reports of both sniper fire and people shooting at police officers near the bridge, on Chef Menteur Highway in eastern New Orleans.

The grand jury separately cleared Lance Madison, a man whom police arrested that day and booked with attempted first-degree murder for allegedly shooting at law enforcement.

Four police officers -- Sgt. Kenneth Bowen, Sgt. Robert Gisevius, officer Anthony Villavaso and officer Robert Faulcon -- were charged with the first-degree murder of James Brissette, 19. Faulcon was also charged with the first-degree murder of Ronald Madison, a 40-year-old mentally retarded man whose body was found riddled with seven gunshot wounds to his back. Three more officers face attempted-murder charges.

The charge of first-degree murder carries a potential death sentence, which prosecutors said was warranted because the accused had shot the men while trying to harm or kill others. Chief Judge Raymond Bigelow, who received the grand jury indictments, said he would not set bond for the officers facing the first-degree murder charges.

Criticizing Jordan

In a written statement, the only one he would make about the indictments on Thursday, Orleans Parish District Attorney Eddie Jordan said, "We cannot allow our police officers to shoot and kill our citizens without justification, like rabid dogs. The rules governing the use of lethal force are not suspended during a state of emergency. Everyone, including police officers, must abide by the law of the land."

New Orleans Police Superintendent Warren Riley asked the public to remember that all seven officers will have their days in court. He called the indictments one the saddest days in the department's history.

"I would like to remind everyone, this is but one step in the judicial process that will determine the future of these officers. This is not when it ends," he said at an evening news conference.

Riley also objected to the statement by Jordan that people had been shot "like rabid dogs," calling the phrase "unprofessional, highly prejudicial and highly undignified."

Representatives for both police unions -- the Police Association of New Orleans and the Fraternal Order of Police -- said their groups stand behind the indicted officers, pointing out that grand juries as a practice hear only the prosecution's evidence, and so heard no testimony defending the police.

The four officers facing murder charges also face varying counts of attempted first-degree murder for allegedly shooting other people wounded on the bridge.

In addition, Robert Barrios was charged with four counts of attempted first-degree murder. Michael Hunter was charged with two counts of attempted first-degree murder. Ignatius Hills was charged with one count of attempted second-degree murder. Bigelow gave all the officers 24 hours to turn themselves in to the Sheriff's Office, setting bail at $100,000 for each attempted-murder count.

One-sided hearing?

Only Eric Hessler, the attorney for Gisevius, attended the afternoon proceedings in Bigelow's courtroom. Afterward, Hessler said his client is innocent, pointing out that all of the officers were cleared by an internal Police Department investigation.

"The grand jury only heard evidence that the district attorney wants them to see," Hessler said. The indictments do not lay out prosecutors' case against the seven officers, only charging them with the fatal shooting or attempted murder of specific victims. But the version of events by several people who survived the incident has been detailed in three federal lawsuits brought in late summer against the city government and Police Department.

These lawsuits portray a group of people who were trying to survive with scant food and water after Katrina, stranded along a strip of Chef Menteur that was surrounded by flood waters.

On Sept. 4 about 9 a.m., Ronald and Lance Madison walked near the top of the Danziger Bridge, returning to their brother's dental office on Chef Menteur Highway after a failed attempt to go to their mother's home in eastern New Orleans. Ronald Madison, who was severely retarded, had insisted on staying in the city because he could not bear to leave behind the family dachshunds, Bobbi and Sushi. His older brother, Lance, decided to stay with him, according to the lawsuit.

At the same time, according to the lawsuits, another group of people was walking at the base of the bridge on a trek to a nearby Winn Dixie to retrieve food and water. The group of six had been staying at the Friendly Inn Motel, located next to the dentist's office where the Madisons had camped out.

Suddenly, the people on the bridge were confronted by a hail of gunfire coming from a group of men in "dark clothing" who had emerged from the back of a rental truck at the foot of the bridge, the lawsuits said.

These men turned out to be the seven heavily armed, out-of-uniform police officers indicted on Thursday, although in the lawsuits, the victims say they never identified themselves as such.

In his lawsuit, Jose Holmes Jr. describes jumping behind a concrete barrier to escape the bullets. Officers shot Holmes several times even though he lay prone on the ground, the lawsuit alleges, One officer stood over him and shot him twice in the abdomen, according to the suit.

During the shooting, Holmes' friend James Brissette -- called James Barsett in the lawsuit -- was killed. His uncle, Leonard Bartholomew III, and cousin, Lesha Bartholomew, also were shot several times. His aunt, Susan Bartholomew, lost her arm after being shot by a "large-caliber" weapon. The gunmen also fired on Leonard Bartholomew IV, Holmes' 15-year-old cousin, but missed.

In his portrayal of the events that morning, Lance Madison has backed up police claims that there was gunfire near the bridge, testifying at a Sept. 28, 2005, magistrate court hearing that six teenagers in white T-shirts shot at him and his brother.

"We tried to run for our life," Madison told a magistrate judge.

But then the truckload of NOPD officers appeared, shooting Ronald Madison in the shoulder. Lance Madison testified that the teenagers never shot at police.

Although the Madisons kept trying to run down the bridge to get out of the line of fire, at least one of the officers pursued, shooting Ronald Madison seven times in the back, according to a lawsuit filed by Lance Madison and his mother, Fuki Madison.

Shipped to prison

After his brother was killed, Lance Madison was surrounded by Louisiana State Police officers. A 25-year employee of Federal Express with no criminal record, Madison was arrested and booked that day with eight counts of attempted murder for allegedly shooting at police officers and another man on the bridge that day.

Madison was booked at Camp Greyhound, the temporary jail set up after Katrina and later shipped to Hunt Correctional Center in St. Gabriel. At the Sept. 28 proceeding at Hunt, Orleans Parish Magistrate Court Judge Gerard Hansen found probable cause for Madison's arrest because of a police report that he had tossed a gun into the Industrial Canal from the Danziger Bridge. Police said they found the weapon the next day in the canal.

But at that same hearing, Hansen lowered Madison's bond -- he was later released without any bond -- and said he didn't believe police had caught a guilty man.

"I could be wrong, but I've been doing this for 32 years, and I think I have a gut reaction on this," he said, according to a transcript. "If I actually thought you were up there shooting, I would raise the bond to $2 million."

Police accounts of the events on Sept. 4 have been starkly different from those of Holmes, the Bartholomews and Lance Madison.

A department news release dated Oct. 4, 2005, offered this version of events:

The seven officers rushed to Danziger Bridge in the rental truck in response to radio reports of two police officers who were "down" under the bridge. Police also had a request for assistance from David Ryder, self-identified as a St. Landry Parish sheriff's deputy, who reported that several people on the bridge were shooting at rescue workers. When officers arrived, they were "met with gunfire" from four people on the bridge, the news release stated. At that point, the police returned fire.

In the six-page police report filed for the Madison arrest, Sgt. Arthur Kaufman gave a similar account, although at one point he says 7 people on the bridge that morning "opened fire" on the 7th District officers who arrived on the scene. The report describes two of the shooters continuing to fire as they ran over the Danziger Bridge toward the Friendly Inn Motel, which is where Lance Madison was arrested.

After the "scene was secured," Ryder arrived and identified Lance Madison as one of the people who shot at rescue workers.

Police impersonator?

But according to documents gathered by the attorneys representing Madison and the other victims, Ryder was not in fact a sheriff's deputy, from St. Landry or anywhere else. Indeed, he has a criminal record that includes a conviction for false imprisonment, arrests for battery on a police officer and possession of cocaine, according to court documents from Nacogdoches County, Texas.

"The public expected first responders to stay and protect, and they did that," said Michael Glasser, PANO president.

Both Donovan Livaccari, FOP employee representative, and Glasser called the indictments a political gambit by Jordan to win the allegiance of voters distrustful of police officers. Both also said that Jordan misled several of the officers involved, granting them immunity so they would testify and then indicting them.

For Lance Madison and his family, the indictments proved that he should never have been arrested on the bridge or charged with firing at police, his attorney said Thursday. "They are relieved that Lance has been vindicated," said Mary Howell.

The Madisons hope additional witnesses will come forward now that charges have been filed against police officers, a sentiment echoed by Anthony Radosti with the Metropolitan Crime Commission, a watchdog group that has been directing potential witnesses to the district attorney's office. "We know that there were a lot of people out there who saw and heard what happened," said Howell.

. . . . . . .

Staff writer Gwen Filosa contributed to this report.

Laura Maggi can be reached at lmaggi@timespicayune.com or at (504) 826-3316.

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-7/116737516647820.xml&coll=1&thispage=1
 
They Say America The Beautiful, I Say America The Land Of The Sin And Hatred.
 
<font size="5"><center>
Cops could face death in post-Katrina shootings</font size>


<font size="4">Four New Orleans police officers accused of gunning down two unarmed
people in the chaotic aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in the latest twist for a
corruption-plagued department that already faces several federal investigations. </font size></center>


PH2008082901665.jpg

A symbolic burial service in honor of the unclaimed bodies
left behind by Hurricane Katrina. The solemn ceremonies
mark the third anniversary of the killer storm.



By MICHAEL KUNZELMAN
The Associated Press
Wednesday, July 14, 2010; 6:14 AM

NEW ORLEANS -- Four New Orleans police officers could face the death penalty after being accused of gunning down two unarmed people in the chaotic aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in the latest twist for a corruption-plagued department that already faces several federal investigations.

The four officers were charged along with two others in a 27-count indictment unsealed Tuesday.

The indictment charges Sgts. Robert Gisevius and Kenneth Bowen, officer Anthony Villavaso and former officer Robert Faulcon with deprivation of rights under color of law and use of a weapon during the commission of a crime. They could face the death penalty if convicted, though U.S. Attorney Jim Letten said prosecutors haven't decided whether to seek that punishment.

Five former New Orleans police officers already have pleaded guilty to helping cover up the shootings on the Danziger Bridge that left two men dead and four wounded just days after the August 2005 hurricane that devastated the city. In one instance, a mentally disabled man was allegedly shot in the back and stomped before he died.

Prosecutors say officers fabricated witness statements, falsified reports and planted a gun in an attempt to make it appear the shootings were justified. It was a shocking example of the violence and confusion that followed the deadly hurricane.

The case is one of several probes of alleged misconduct by New Orleans police officers that the Justice Department opened after the storm. Last month, five current or former officers were charged in the shooting death of 31-year-old Henry Glover, whose burned body turned up after Katrina.

With 80 percent of New Orleans underwater, officers from a department with a history of corruption were forced to battle rampant crime, and some became criminals themselves. Dozens of officers were fired or suspended for abandoning their posts.

In the bridge shooting case, seven officers were charged with murder or attempted murder in December 2006 but a state judge threw out all the charges in August 2008. Federal authorities then stepped in a month later to launch their own investigation.

So far, five former New Orleans police officers have pleaded guilty to lesser charges of helping cover up the shootings on the Danziger Bridge and await sentencing.

The latest indictments come shortly after the city's new mayor replaced its former police chief and invited a Justice Department team to overhaul the police department.

Attorney General Eric Holder said the Justice Department is working with city officials to restore residents' trust in the police department.

"Put simply, we will not tolerate wrongdoing by those who are sworn to protect the public," Attorney General Eric Holder said Tuesday in New Orleans.

Sgt. Arthur Kaufman and retired Sgt. Gerard Dugue, who helped investigate the shootings, were charged with participating in a cover-up to make it appear the shootings were justified. Charges against them include obstruction of justice.

It's not the first time the Justice Department has intervened. In the 1990s, the Justice Department investigated several high-profile police corruption cases, including a police officer convicted of arranging a woman's 1994 murder.

The new batch of federal probes are bearing fruit as the city welcomes a new mayor, Mitch Landrieu, and his new police superintendent, Ronal Serpas. At Landrieu's request, the Justice Department launched the top-to-bottom review of the department.

Mary Howell, a civil rights attorney who represents relatives of one of the Danziger bridge shooting victims, said the police department has been plagued by a pattern of "episodic crises" that have eluded lasting reforms.

"There is either a refusal or inability by local authorities to take care of them," she said. "I think it's a question of leadership. This stuff requires institutional changes that require the political leadership of the community to make it last."

Eric Hessler, a lawyer for Gisevius, said the indictment wasn't a surprise.

"We have long anticipated that this day may come," he said.

Claude Kelly, a lawyer for Dugue, called it "a travesty" and denied his client participated in a cover-up.

"This is just overreaching, Monday morning quarterbacking by the government," Kelly said.

Faulcon, who resigned from the department shortly after the storm, was arrested at his home in Houston. Gisevius, Bowen and Villavaso surrendered at FBI headquarters in New Orleans.

U.S. Attorney Jim Letten said prosecutors will ask for all four of them to be detained.

Some of the defense attorneys bristled at the arrest of Faulcon.


"They really didn't have to do that," said Frank DeSalvo, a lawyer for Bowen. "Nobody is going anywhere. We've never thought about doing anything other than face these charges."

Kaufman and Dugue weren't arrested. A date for the men's initial court appearances wasn't immediately set.

The indictment claims Faulcon shot 40-year-old Ronald Madison, who had severe mental disabilities, in the back as he ran away on the west side of the bridge. Bowen is charged with stomping and kicking Madison while he was lying on the ground, wounded but still alive.

His brother, Lance Madison, was arrested and charged with trying to kill police officers. He was jailed for three weeks and released without being indicted.

Bowen, Gisevius, Faulcon and Villavaso also are accused of shooting at an unarmed family on the east side of the bridge, killing 17-year-old James Brissette and wounding four others.

All six officers are charged with participating in the cover-up.

Dugue retired from the force earlier this year. Kaufman has been on paid sick leave.

---

Associated Press writer Kevin McGill contributed to this report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/14/AR2010071400494.html
 
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<font size="5"><center>
New Orleans police under scrutiny
after killing verdict</font wsize></center>



_50375218_010819840-1.jpg

Henry Glover's family and friends had to push to
have his killing investigated



By Iain Mackenzie
BBC News, New Orleans
10 December 2010


New Orleans witnessed many macabre spectacles in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

Few could have been more bizarre and chilling than the death of Henry Glover.

The 31-year-old had survived the flooding that claimed more than 1,800 lives in his city.

Four days after the storm, on 2 September 2005, he was shot by New Orleans police officer David Warren.

Some reports say Mr Glover was collecting stolen goods at the time - a criminal act, but not one normally punished by death.

Mr Glover's friends and a passerby drove him to a local school that was being used as a police base.

Instead of receiving help, the men claimed they were beaten up, while Mr Glover was left to die from his wounds.

Later, one of the officers drove the car to an area of scrubland next to the Mississippi river and set fire to it, with Mr Glover's body inside.


<font size="3">Conspiracy theory</font size>

His friends and family tried to have the case investigated, but got nowhere with the police.

"I tried to go to the media. They called me a raving lunatic," said William Tanner, one of the men who tried to help Mr Glover.

Three years later, the case came to the attention of the FBI, which brought charges under civil rights laws.

David Warren was accused of murder, four other officers were also implicated.

"The government tried to paint it as a broad conspiracy by cops," said Brendan McCarthy, a reporter with the New Orleans Times-Picayune.

"In their closing arguments they noted that there were a lot of bodies after the storm. Only one was burned up, and he just happened to have been shot by a cop," he added.

David Warren was eventually found guilty of manslaughter.

Officer Greg McRae was convicted of setting fire to Mr Glover's body and obstruction of justice.

Their colleague, Travis McCabe was found guilty of falsifying paperwork and lying to the FBI.

However the jury did not believe the claims that police officers beat up Mr Glover's friends.

Two senior officers, Lt Dwayne Scheuermann and ex-Lt Robert Italiano, were also cleared of involvement.


<font size="3">Ethical questions</font size>

Following the verdicts, prosecutor Jim Letten called the case "a critical phase in the recovery and healing of this city".

But scrutiny of the New Orleans Police Department and its post-Katrina activities is far from over.

Thirteen other members of the force are either awaiting trial or have pleaded guilty over similar incidents.

In June 2011, six officers are due to stand trial over the Danziger Bridge shootings, in which two unarmed civilians were killed and four others injured.

The debate over ethics in times of extreme crisis continues, according to Brendan McCarthy: "How does law change during the storm?

"Many will say the law tweaks a little bit. In this case prosecutors have argued Hurricane Katrina does not change our law.

"In fact law and principles matter more during these stressful times."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11968374
 
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On a related note, this underscores the need for strong 2nd amendment protections. The actions of the police may have been fought off by an armed citizenry. Of course, the cops knew that, and that is why they were randomly disarming its own citizens.
 
On a related note, this underscores the need for strong 2nd amendment protections. The actions of the police may have been fought off by an armed citizenry. Of course, the cops knew that, and that is why they were randomly disarming its own citizens.

Do you have hard statistics to back the underscored argument ? ? ?

I’m also a bit surprised bro that you would pretend to know what was in the minds of those members of the New Orleans police force on September 4, 2005 at the Danziner Bridge. :confused:
 
Do you have hard statistics to back the underscored argument ? ? ?

I’m also a bit surprised bro that you would pretend to know what was in the minds of those members of the New Orleans police force on September 4, 2005 at the Danziner Bridge. :confused:

First off, I did not mean to infer that I am reading the minds of those murderers. What I mean is that if those folks were armed, they may have stood a much better chance of living.

Second, there were orders issued by the Chief of Police to disarm. I will find some back-up and post it after I finish breakfast.
 
What . . . if those folks were armed, they may have stood a much better chance of living.

If they had been armed, changes are, many more of them could/would have been killed -- simply because they would have presented more targets with a more compelling arguments, rightfully or wrongfully (and the actual shooting itself proves that those police on that occassion didn't need a "right" reason) on behalf of the police to engage those who were armed including those whom the police believed to be armed, (whether or not they were), and those whom the police might argue somehow appeared to be aiding and abetting those who were armed and who appeared to pose a danger to them (the police). Its not a stretch, in my mind, to see a calamitous situation of armed people, including the police, with various misunderstandings running between them, resulting in untold numbers of people shot and possibly killed.

I'm one of those who believe that the fewer "illegal guns" out there, the better. And, I don't agree with those who argue that the Second Amendment confers an absolute right to bear arms.

QueEx
 
If they had been armed, changes are, many more of them could/would have been killed -- simply because they would have presented more targets with a more compelling arguments, rightfully or wrongfully (and the actual shooting itself proves that those police on that occassion didn't need a "right" reason) on behalf of the police to engage those who were armed including those whom the police believed to be armed, (whether or not they were), and those whom the police might argue somehow appeared to be aiding and abetting those who were armed and who appeared to pose a danger to them (the police). Its not a stretch, in my mind, to see a calamitous situation of armed people, including the police, with various misunderstandings running between them, resulting in untold numbers of people shot and possibly killed.

I'm one of those who believe that the fewer "illegal guns" out there, the better. And, I don't agree with those who argue that the Second Amendment confers an absolute right to bear arms.

QueEx

I undestand your point, but i do not agree. Sometimes you need to repel an attack until back up can arrive. Even if you are tried for a gun crime, you at least have a chance to tell your side of the story. There is an old saying - "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six."

Also, attached are some links related to the confiscation of arms during the Katrina catastrophe:





Here are links to two articles talking about the legislative fallout from the seizures:

http://http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=198836[/URL]

Reason Magazine article on the confiscations
 
I undestand your point, but i do not agree. Sometimes you need to repel an attack until back up can arrive.

I believe it is safe to say that we understand the position of each other, though WE disagree.

I certainly believe in the notion of self-defense. I believe the law of self defense in most jurisdictions in this country only permits the use of deadly force (i.e., a firearm), in self defense, to protect one's life or the life of another, when either is being immediately threatened with deadly force. Arguably, if there were fewer guns, there would be fewer lives threatened by guns and, therefore, fewer situations to repel deadly force, especially where firearms are at issue.

I also believe that permitting the entire populace to be armed is tantamount to an invitation to chaos.


Even if you are tried for a gun crime, you at least have a chance to tell your side of the story. There is an old saying - "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six."
Perhaps, but that dead child just beyond the som-bitch you were shooting at won't take any solace from your side of the story.


Also, attached are some links related to the confiscation of arms during the Katrina catastrophe

Okay, but I don't see the relevance. The police officers involved in the Danziger Bridge murders didn't give a shit whether their victims were armed or not or whether others in the crowd or near the occurrence were armed. If any had been and they pulled their weapons, they may very well have been fatalities themselves, instead of witnesses living with their families and able to tell us today what happened on the 4th day of September, 2005.
 
I certainly believe in the notion of self-defense. I believe the law of self defense in most jurisdictions in this country only permits the use of deadly force (i.e., a firearm), in self defense, to protect one's life or the life of another, when either is being immediately threatened with deadly force. Arguably, if there were fewer guns, there would be fewer lives threatened by guns and, therefore, fewer situations to repel deadly force, especially where firearms are at issue.

I also believe that permitting the entire populace to be armed is tantamount to an invitation to chaos.

There are a couple of things I disagree with:

A: If the reduction of guns were the issue, cities would be safer places. They are not. It is just the law abiding who are not armed well.

B: There are many countries that have a high gun to person ratio but have much less gun violence than here.

If you look through history, you will find that the chaos often begins with the disarming of the people.

Perhaps, but that dead child just beyond the som-bitch you were shooting at won't take any solace from your side of the story.

That scenario is very rare. It is usually a person already engaged in criminal behavior that shoots the innocent.

The police officers involved in the Danziger Bridge murders didn't give a shit whether their victims were armed or not or whether others in the crowd or near the occurrence were armed. If any had been and they pulled their weapons, they may very well have been fatalities themselves, instead of witnesses living with their families and able to tell us today what happened on the 4th day of September, 2005

Maybe, or, they would have retreated and called for back-up, and then a surrender could have been negotiated, at which point the story still would have been told.

My point is that we should not make the decision on how other people should protect themselves, but let them make that decision.

Those cops were fucking murderous thugs, and I think that just being at thier mercy through being disarmed goes against self preservation.
 
There are a couple of things I disagree with:

A: If the reduction of guns were the issue, cities would be safer places. They are not. It is just the law abiding who are not armed well.

B: There are many countries that have a high gun to person ratio but have much less gun violence than here.

If you look through history, you will find that the chaos often begins with the disarming of the people.

I was waiting for the historical evidence.



Those cops were fucking murderous thugs, and I think that just being at thier mercy through being disarmed goes against self preservation.


I could not agree more with the first part of that statement; the second part I believe is troubling.

With respect to the second part and your earlier comments/opinions that if the civilians had been armed to the teeth, this shooting may not have occured, the following, I believe is telling:

Robert Faulcon, testifying in the trial of five officers accused in the 2005 shooting, admitted he fired the shotgun that killed Ronald Madison, a 40-year-old man with a mental disability, even though Madison had not fired at him.

Faulcon said he had see]n civilians with guns when he first arrived at the bridge, and he believed his life was in danger.

"I became paralyzed with fear, really, that we were going to be shot at," he said.​

The shooting occurred when a dozen officers responded to a radio call that police had been fired on and that the shooters were headed toward the Danziger Bridge. Faulcon was among the officers who jumped into a rental truck and sped to the scene.

"I knew we were going into a bad situation. I just expected to be shot at," he said.​

Faulcon, who rode in the back of the truck, said when he heard the initial shots he couldn't tell where they were coming from. When he jumped to the ground he caught sight of two people with handguns, he said, and that's when he first fired his Mossberg shotgun.
"I feel horrible," he said. "When I saw guns, I might have been right and I might have been wrong, but I wouldn't have shot at unarmed people."

Of course, Officer Faulcon could be (and probably is) a lying sack of shit - - now trying to save his ass. But the truth of his testimony notwithstanding (we don't know what Faulcon and the other 4 officers really felt, thought or saw at the time), his statements above do not appear to stand for the proposition, however, that more civilian guns make police less likely to shoot, on the contrary, they appear to stand for the proposition that more civilian guns make it more likely police will shoot.

Hence, my belief: fewer illegal civilian guns and better police selection/hiring & training.
 

Five Former NOPD Officers Sentenced to 6 to 65
Years in Prison for Danziger Bridge Shootings



WWNO
(University of New Orleans)
April 5, 2012



Five former New Orleans police officers will serve from six to 65 years in prison
for their parts in a notorious shooting after Hurricane Katrina in 2005. Two
unarmed civilians were killed and four others injured.

Victims were crossing the Danziger Bridge, seeking shelter after the hurricane
left the city in chaos. Police responding to reports of shots fired at officers at
the bridge opened fire on the civilians. A mentally disabled man and a teenaged
boy were killed; four others were seriously hurt. Victims spoke at the sentencing
in federal court of their sorrow. Witnesses for the former officers testified of the
strain they were under after the storm. Four officers will serve decades for their
role in the shootings. One will serve six years for helping stage a cover-up.




http://www.wwno.org/post/five-former-nopd-officers-sentenced-danziger-bridge-shootings

 
bullies want a fight....fuck your March....niggro


fight me back or imma fuck with you everyday see you

try all that Martin Luther King shit all you want

and if you kneel to pray you are getting kicked in the back of your head.

Now!
 

Five Former NOPD Officers Sentenced to 6 to 65
Years in Prison for Danziger Bridge Shootings



WWNO
(University of New Orleans)
April 5, 2012



Five former New Orleans police officers will serve from six to 65 years in prison
for their parts in a notorious shooting after Hurricane Katrina in 2005. Two
unarmed civilians were killed and four others injured.

Victims were crossing the Danziger Bridge, seeking shelter after the hurricane
left the city in chaos. Police responding to reports of shots fired at officers at
the bridge opened fire on the civilians. A mentally disabled man and a teenaged
boy were killed; four others were seriously hurt. Victims spoke at the sentencing
in federal court of their sorrow. Witnesses for the former officers testified of the
strain they were under after the storm. Four officers will serve decades for their
role in the shootings. One will serve six years for helping stage a cover-up.




http://www.wwno.org/post/five-former-nopd-officers-sentenced-danziger-bridge-shootings


Good bump. I like that they sentenced not just the shooters but people complicit in the coverup. Police have to realize that those "bad apples" in their midst make all of them look bad and make the job more dangerous for every one of them. These are not your "brothers in blue", these are thugs in matching uniforms no different than gangbangers with matching colors.
 
. . . "bad apples" in their midst make all of them look bad and make the job more dangerous for every one of them. These are not your "brothers in blue", these are thugs in matching uniforms no different than gangbangers with matching colors.

Precisely!
 
source: ABC News

Judge Throws Out Conviction of Hurricane Katrina Cops Who Killed on Bridge


The family members of an unarmed man who was shot and killed on a highway bridge during the chaos of Hurricane Katrina said today that their "wound" has been reopened after a judge overturned the convictions of police officers who killed him.

The guilty verdicts against five New Orleans police officers for shooting and killing two men on the Danziger Bridge after Katrina were thrown out by federal Judge Kurt Engelhardt on Tuesday after prosecutors were found to have made anonymous comments online about the case during the trial.

The "Danziger Bridge" case became emblematic of a chaotic New Orleans rife with government and law enforcement problems in the weeks after Katrina struck the city in 2005. Five former NOPD officers, including Kenneth Bowen, Robert Gisevius, Robert Faulcon and Anthony Vallavaso were convicted for their roles in firing upon unarmed civilians on the bridge on Sept. 4, 2005.

The officers killed two individuals and injured others, including Lance Madison, who was arrested for attempting to kill police officers and later released.

A sixth cop, Arthur Kaufman, was convicted of helping to cover up the crime.
The family of one victim, Ronald Madison, said they were "extremely disappointed" in Engelhardt's decision.

"It has been over eight years since our brother Ronald was shot and killed on the Danziger Bridge and our brother Lance was falsely arrested and framed on eight counts of murder," the family said in a statement obtained by ABC News affiliate WGNO. "This decision reopens this terrible wound not only for our family, but our entire community."

Engelhardt issued a 129-page decision explaining his reasons for overturning the officers' convictions. He noted that three government attorneys allegedly posted comments anonymously on NOLA.com about the case, including former U.S. prosecutors Sal Perricone, Jan Mann and Karla Dobinski. Engelhardt also said former U.S. Attorney Jim Letten knew about it and did nothing.

Among the "inflammatory" comments cited by Engelhardt were Perricone's anti-police postings on the website that continued through the trial, in which he called the NOPD "corrupt and ineffectual, totally dysfunctional" and "a joke for a long time," according to court documents.

Perricone and Mann resigned in 2012 when the allegations of online misconduct first surfaced, the U.S. Attorney's office said today.

The Department of Justice was unsure of the employment status of Dobinski, who was based in Washington, D.C.

The U.S. Attorney's Office in New Orleans said in a statement that it was disappointed with Engelhardt's ruling and was considering its options. It could appeal the decision or decide to retry the former officers.
 
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