Before bron Wade was winning close to 50 games by himself.
The years they stunk he was injured.
The years they stunk he was injured.
If Wade continues to perform like this and wins the Finals MVP
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It's nothing dishonest about what I said. In the same post I also said no way Kobe has the worst record in the NBA. It's at the bottom of my original post. When I watch Wade play I never go "Damn he's the best player in the NBA"
Kobe has 5 rings and has been to 6 finals so I'm confused how you can compare him to Wade. No one in the NBA goes "Whoa we play Wade tomorrow let's tailor our game plan to just stop him". But they do that for Kobe.
It's unfortunate that Ainge made that move to trade Perkins and banked on Shaq being healthy, because that had the makings of being an epic matchup in the playoffs.
But by the time the playoffs rolled around it was Boston who was the flawed team, and Miami started to put it together. Rajon Rondo suffering that injury didn't help either.
But it'll be hard to try to compare Wade's two championships and two potential MVPs to Kobe's, as one came from arguably the greatest finals matchup in 20, 25 years. Not to mention the defensive attention Kobe received is much different than what Wade is facing, and the games played (I think more than double the amount of games) is also a factor.
So unless things change in Miami where teams are more worried about Wade than James, and Wade displays more longevity than he has already, he'll probably settle into the third spot.
Which is not a bad position to be in at all.
But by the time the playoffs rolled around it was Boston who was the flawed team, and Miami started to put it together. Rajon Rondo suffering that injury didn't help either.
But it'll be hard to try to compare Wade's two championships and two potential MVPs to Kobe's, as one came from arguably the greatest finals matchup in 20, 25 years. Not to mention the defensive attention Kobe received is much different than what Wade is facing, and the games played (I think more than double the amount of games) is also a factor.
So unless things change in Miami where teams are more worried about Wade than James, and Wade displays more longevity than he has already, he'll probably settle into the third spot.
Which is not a bad position to be in at all.
Eewwll, to me, this is why coaches and players praise guys like Lebron and Kobe more than guys like Wade, Melo, and even Durant.
It's like they feel that if you can overcome all of the extra attention you're given, then it places you on a higher plane. Remember "Come Fly With Me" when Daly was telling the Pistons, "He wants to drive right! He wants to drive right!" Mike proceeded to take the court, drive right, and hit the game winning shot off the backboard. Your damn Pistons wanted to shit that shit talking, high scoring, "over-hyped/ringless" Mike down. It was to the point that they even came up with the "Jordan Rules". This is the type of stuff I'm talking about with a very select few. Teams just want to get in your shit more.
The hype surrounding players creates a great desire to beat them and see them fail. Shit, back when Kobe and T-Mac were battling, I'd see T-Mac play defense he never played any other time of the year. But, he wanted the praise Kobe got, and what better way to do that than to outscore him and shut him down?
I feel like Melo does that with Lebron. I think he feels he's as good as 'Bron, and I see him go extra hard when playing Lebron. Problem is, once a perception is out there, it's pretty much fixed.
This is your original reply
Kobe also, without another star, couldnt get out of the first round.
Just use a better argument next time. The premise is faulty in the first place. I just used your own premise against you easily. Then you committed another logical fallacy by attempting to move the goal post.
It's called "humility." Few current NBA players have it. Just look at the record. Kobe really isn't all that close. MJ is the only one comparable (and even he never did all the things that West did at the position).
And with similarly crappy teams, Lebron won 60.
But it says something about Wade that both Dorrell Wright and Michael Beasely look like much better players after leaving the heat, and for Lebron guys who looked really good with him don't look nearly as good.
Wade can parlay playing with Bron into extending his career, and making him much more efficient, as when he attacks he won't be as fatigued as he would be if he were "on his own"
I can't really put him #3 all time sg ... he has had some years where he would be considered and MVP candidate and #3 ... TRUE ... but that was like a 4 year span ... he hasn't even gotten close to winning an MVP iirc so what are we saying by crowning him #3 all time great sg??
I will say that he is one of the best closers of this era ... he seems to show up when the pressure is on as good or better than any elite player I've seen ... reminds me of Reggie Miller
Lebron's approach to the game allowed sixty wins, but notice they fell flat each year.
By being "Mr. Everything", he won a lot of regular seasons game. Unfortunately, when you're facing high quality teams, and it's PLAYOFF time, "Mr. Everything" needs help. Having relied so much on 'Bron all year, the confidence required to step up in important playoff games was not there.
Really, guys - how much confidence could those Cavs players have in themselves knowing they relied so much on Lebron?
This is the importance of involving teammates. I think Kobe caught a lot of unfair criticism back when they were losing, because by then, he had given up the idea of being "Mr. Everything". He scored 35.4ppg, but where did it get the team? You can spread a twenty pound back of sugar over shit, but it's still shit. When Kobe wouldn't go out in a blaze of glory like he would have when he was in his early twenties, people assumed he quit on the Lakers. I think he did give up, but only because he realized there was no way those teams could compete for a ring.
It was after that season he demanded a trade. Smush as a start PG, and Kwame as your starting C will never cut it.
Kobe realized that one man will not do it alone, and hasn't been a big time scorer in quite some time now. Where will that really get him?
By being "Mr. Everything", he won a lot of regular seasons game. Unfortunately, when you're facing high quality teams, and it's PLAYOFF time, "Mr. Everything" needs help. Having relied so much on 'Bron all year, the confidence required to step up in important playoff games was not there.
Really, guys - how much confidence could those Cavs players have in themselves knowing they relied so much on Lebron?
This is the importance of involving teammates. I think Kobe caught a lot of unfair criticism back when they were losing, because by then, he had given up the idea of being "Mr. Everything". He scored 35.4ppg, but where did it get the team? You can spread a twenty pound back of sugar over shit, but it's still shit. When Kobe wouldn't go out in a blaze of glory like he would have when he was in his early twenties, people assumed he quit on the Lakers. I think he did give up, but only because he realized there was no way those teams could compete for a ring.
It was after that season he demanded a trade. Smush as a start PG, and Kwame as your starting C will never cut it.
Kobe realized that one man will not do it alone, and hasn't been a big time scorer in quite some time now. Where will that really get him?
Cmon
Wright played the same position as Wade. He's getting a chance to shine.
Beasley is nut case. Doesn't play d. He looks like he's doing better because he's on a shitty team.
Well I'm considering the future as well. That if things go the way I think, where he displays more longevity (which is possible considering the load is shared by Bron and Wade), and wins more titles he'll get into the third.
I won't even bother with the MVP award anymore honestly. Shaq has only one when he should have had two MINIMUM, Steve Nash has two when he should have had one MAXIMUM, they never consider any team outside the top three team, and they vote more for story than anything else.
Uh. Dorrell Wright is a SMALL FORWARD. He started ALL 82 games for the warriors at the 3. He's ALWAYS been a small forward.
And beasley, while playing on a crappy team is showing some talent.
He's finished 7th, 5th and 3rd the last 3 years. (Bryant, 4th, 3rd and 2nd.)
If the Heat go on to win this ship it will help solidify Wade's status as an all-time great.
He has easily been regarded as one of the best players in the league for several years ( the 2nd best SG, behind Kobe). It won't catapult him to a top 5 all time but it will certainly cement him as an all-time great.
He has easily been regarded as one of the best players in the league for several years ( the 2nd best SG, behind Kobe). It won't catapult him to a top 5 all time but it will certainly cement him as an all-time great.
This is an example of what I'm talking about:
Now, why did JJ single out Kobe? Kobe didn't push him down. Hell, he was the one who came out publicly and and spoke against what Andrew did. However, it just goes to confirm that players, coaches, and fans are more fixated on guys like Kobe and Lebron. The Lakers lose a game, no one is really thinking about Gasol or Odom. The Heat lose a game, yeah ... they'll talk about Wade, but god forbid Wade is perceived as the hero. People go IN on Lebron.
Lebron has reached the one name status like Kobe where motherfuckers are praying for your downfall. You know, like I'm praying for Lebron's this series.
The difference with me, though...is my "hate" is limited to basketball. Some of these other cats around here ............................
Now, why did JJ single out Kobe? Kobe didn't push him down. Hell, he was the one who came out publicly and and spoke against what Andrew did. However, it just goes to confirm that players, coaches, and fans are more fixated on guys like Kobe and Lebron. The Lakers lose a game, no one is really thinking about Gasol or Odom. The Heat lose a game, yeah ... they'll talk about Wade, but god forbid Wade is perceived as the hero. People go IN on Lebron.
Lebron has reached the one name status like Kobe where motherfuckers are praying for your downfall. You know, like I'm praying for Lebron's this series.
The difference with me, though...is my "hate" is limited to basketball. Some of these other cats around here ............................
could someone tell blunt that MVPs are done by votes not "place" so even if someone finishes second they could have got just one vote .... thus they were no where CLOSE to winning....
yeah he has the potential to be #3 i agree ... could have MAYBE surpassed Kobe at that if he won another ring/s ... and as for MVPs I agree the award itself has lost it's meaning but I don't think he has had many MVP seasons tho his ppg is always top 5 or so ...
That's really lame. Doesn't matter if you only get ONE vote, but finish 2nd. It still gives you an idea of where the player ranks in the league's eyes.
(And Wade got a lot more than just one vote in his recent MVP bids. He received more First Place votes than 2nd Place finisher Kobe in '08-'09.)
Wade has been undervalued for his entire career, and he has accepted that role. He has said it himself, but people who have watched his career understand how great he is.
Bingo
i like wade....but
this is tru.....
n to brons credit....he made it to the finals with bums ....
couldnt win it but atleast he made it....
I never understoof why Kobe gets a pass for not doing shit wihtout a #2 but everyone else doesnt
Dude quit on a series and demanded a trade cuz his team wasnt good enough
Gasol comes and they go right to the finals and win the next two years
That aint no damn coincidence
You need LEGIT help in the NBA
Dude quit on a series and demanded a trade cuz his team wasnt good enough
Gasol comes and they go right to the finals and win the next two years
That aint no damn coincidence
You need LEGIT help in the NBA
That statement was not true. '06 was not that long ago fellas...
Wade should've won the MVP year before last. You niggas memories is short as fuck.
http://www.jockjerseys.com/flash/nba/lebron-james-wins-2008-2009-nba-mvp-award/1731/
Nice try .... and you almost had me.... to think ... I was gonna be lazy and admit I was wrong
... don't u EVARRRR test me again blunt next time I won't be so civil ... I'm not on your level ok ... got that???
I have addressed you and now you have been warned ... you can go play troll now
How can you compare the two? Jordan played in the golden era, of course he wasn't going to beat the 80's Celtics or Lakers by him self. But I expect Dwade to be able to beat the Atlanta Hawks by himself if he's an all time great. Also no team with an all-time great guard would have the worst record in the NBA
DWade was hurt that whole year, I think he only played like 20 games that year!!
No one "moved the goal post". In my original reply I also stated "Kobe would never be on a team with the worst record and Wade was"
This is your original reply below
There is nothing else there. I have not edited it. You changed the criteria in a LATER response. That is called moving the goal post.
WHOAAAAAAAAAA....I'm not the biggest Pierce fan by a mile but STOP it. Relevant? Even though they didn't win the title Pierce AT LEAST made the conference finals when it was his team. The Heat Have not been relevant at ALL since 06... Pierce alone kept the Celtics more relevant than Wade with the Heat.
This
Wade played a fair amount of games that year so I don't wanna hear that bullshit about how hurt he was. I know damn well he played more than the 15-17 games they won that year.
Kobe took a team with fucking Kwame Brown as a starter, and that bum smush parker to the playoffs and played arguably the best Suns team of the decade with Nash(MVP)/Amare/Marion destroying niggas that season. And you put Wade on those LA teams and them niggas would be full of lotto picks, and not sniffing the playoffs.
Wade will never be a top 5 SG because he doesn't make anyone on his team better, he had talent on those Heat teams (Beasley, Marion, Wright, and I believe J'Oneal was still above average before comming to MIA) them dudes wasn't beasts but were certainly better than what LBJ or Kobe took to the playoffs with over .500 records. Wade is a good player but all he is is a scorer, he'd never win shit without a MVP candidate with him. He's looking good in the playoffs yes, but that's like saying Tony Parker or Manu Ginobli are top 5 because everytime they went to the ship they were playing bonkers, yall niggas need to hop off dudes nuts, he ain't on the GOAT list.
Far as this thread it will say what Wade has proven already, when he can get single coverage the team will excel. This is no different from 06. Shaq got doubled in 06, Lebron in 11. It ALSO shows that the Dallas Mavericks have not changed in their defense of him. But they reallly have no choice. 06 Shaq was still a VERY DANGEROUS force and to be honest they had to double him and Lebron is the most dangerous force in the league so they have to double him, leaving only ONE person on Wade all the time with help being paralyzed by having to pay attention to Lebron.
The only way this would have changed my opinion of Wade would be if only Bosh came to Miami or something like that. Wades 2 Finals MVPs will come along side 2 of the most dominant players of the past 30 years on his team....
The only way this would have changed my opinion of Wade would be if only Bosh came to Miami or something like that. Wades 2 Finals MVPs will come along side 2 of the most dominant players of the past 30 years on his team....
It's making me sick how fucking right you are my nigga! You can't be a fucking number 2 and be considered a GOAT. If that's the case then Pip should be on the list, but he ain't because he didn't do shit without MJ! By these niggas on BGOL Manu and Tony Parker are better than Timmy based on their finals performances...
True to an extent. With Wade he is the type of player that gets better with talent around him, much like a Horry or even Pippen for that matter, in this aspect he does it perhaps as good as anyone in the game. I contrast that with James who is the type of player who makes his teammates play better, but not necessarily play better with better talent. Wade and James are apples and oranges, but also very similar to each other and complement each other style.
So if you have to mention one as being the best all time, you have to also mention the other, even though their game may be different from each other.
oh damn forgot about that ... but that team was deep though but I digress ... you got me I was wrong ... Don't tell Beeeii
But I'd still take Wade over Pierce as far as talent year in and year out ... Pierce had out played Kobe and Lebron in 2008 ... and he is a lot like wade come to think of it as far as taking charge and being a go to guy ...
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