If Wade continues to perform like this and wins the Finals MVP

[Spectrum]

What will that do for his legacy?

I have never really seen him discussed as an all-time great guard...will that begin(especially considering he is still in his prime). I know this may be a bit premature as there are a lot of games left in this series.

I know that even now, Lebron is leading the team in playoffs points, assists, steals and tied for the lead in rebounds...so this is not a knock on Lebron...and playing with Lebron makes things a bit easier on both sides of the ball but Wade looks extremely comfortable in the moment.

Wade is well on his way to having two NBA Finals that completely overshadows anything Kobe Bryant, for instance, has been able to produce in the Finals thoughout his career despite having two Finals MVP trophies. Im talking about offensive efficiency (like game 3 with zero turnovers, shooting percentage) and also hitting the boards hard and causing problems on the defensive end. Wade is the one playing like Michael as Jordan always elevated his production during the finals (except for maybe the one series against Seattle where he struggled with his shooting).

To quote the stats:

He's arguably in the midst of a more impressive Finals performance than his original, when his average of 34.7 points was boosted by 75-of-97 shooting from the line in the six-game series, including a whopping 46 attempts in the past two games. He's put up 29.0 points per game to help the Heat take a 2-1 lead in this series, posting better numbers in field goal percentage (56.7), 3-point percentage (40.0), rebounds (8.7) and assists (5.0) than he did against the Mavs five years ago.

 

[therealjondoe]

Top 5 shooting guard of all time.

 

[Blunt]

I have never really seen him discussed as an all-time great guard ...

Huh???

 

[malaki]

yes he is an all time great but I think his body is breaking down and he won't be able to maintain high level production for the same # of years as guys like Jordan and Kobe. also, arguably if he gets this ring both of his rings were based on riding a big horse (Shaq, LeBron) to the big game then taking over in the clutch. which isn't a knock, but Jordan and Kobe were clear #1s on their title teams (kobe on the last 2).

 

[therealjondoe]

Top 5 shooting guard of all time.

 

[Spectrum]

Huh???

Where do you rank him on the all-time shooting guard list?... he is often an afterthought despite his talent-level and body of work.

Even when he was the best player in the NBA, he was rarely recognized as such.

 

[therealjondoe]

yes he is an all time great but I think his body is breaking down and he won't be able to maintain high level production for the same # of years as guys like Jordan and Kobe. also, arguably if he gets this ring both of his rings were based on riding a big horse (Shaq, LeBron) to the big game then taking over in the clutch. which isn't a knock, but Jordan and Kobe were clear #1s on their title teams (kobe on the last 2).

Kobe rode Shaq and gasol.

 

[Les W]

Wade is a closer he is a big stage player ... he's made it to the finals with two of if not the greatest in our generation (Shaq and Lebron) and out shined them each time ...

I don't think this does THAT much for him on the all-time great list ... not anymore than Robert Horry hitting big shots does for his legacy .. helps a lot but you need consistency to be that dude

 

[killa kadafi191]

Top 5 shooting guard of all time.

Ehhhhhhhhhhh not yet. Hall of fame player yet but top 5 ever???

 

[8SD8-retired_member]

Kobe rode Shaq and gasol.

 

[killa kadafi191]

Where do you rank him on the all-time shooting guard list?... he is often an afterthought despite his talent-level and body of work.

Even when he was the best player in the NBA, he was rarely recognized as such.

Exactly again the nba is hard on their players when it comes to their legacies.

Look at reggie miller. Look at various players who have yet to enter the hall of fame.

Look how long it took for Rodman and remember how many records he set. Average 18 boards a game at his height?????

Wade will be judge hard watch.

 

[TheKingofVa]

It will do nothing, Wade is Bron's sidekick. He couldn't get out the 1st round of the playoffs without another star, he's no better than Paul Pierce.

 

[Les W]

yes he is an all time great but I think his body is breaking down and he won't be able to maintain high level production for the same # of years as guys like Jordan and Kobe. also, arguably if he gets this ring both of his rings were based on riding a big horse (Shaq, LeBron) to the big game then taking over in the clutch. which isn't a knock, but Jordan and Kobe were clear #1s on their title teams (kobe on the last 2).

I am not ready to tag the all-time great on him yet ... definitely top 3 of his era ... but just too much talent all-time for him to be a LOCK

I put him below Dr. J and above say Reggie Miller ... prolly a future Hall of Famer

edit Killa K beat me to it

 

[Blunt]

Where do you rank him on the all-time shooting guard list?... he is often an afterthought despite his talent-level and body of work.

He's still only 29, and has played just 7 years. Folks aren't gonna be eager to rank him at such an early stage, but no one has ever denied his status as one of the greatest shooting guards of the era.

Even when he was the best player in the NBA, he was rarely recognized as such.

Don't know why you say that. He's been a consistent All-NBA selection, and garnered a bushel of MVP votes over the years. The only knock on him has been the "one-man-show" aspect of being the dominant player on a good, though not great, team.

 

[KrafMatik]

Wade is not an all time great guard. He has done and is doing the same thing Lebron gets criticized for. People forget Shaq had an MVP year when they won back in '06. Hell when Shaq left and it was solely Wades team they were garbage.....playing for the top pick in the draft. At least Lebron had his team in contention every year with lackluster help.

 

[TheKingofVa]

Top 5 shooting guard of all time.

Hell no, You can't put him over Jordan, Jerry West, Kobe, Drexler, Iverson, Hondo, Oscar (if you count him as a sg), George Gervin, David Thompson, and Earl Monroe. Players in this era so overrated

 

[Blunt]

It will do nothing, Wade is Bron's sidekick. He couldn't get out the 1st round of the playoffs without another star, he's no better than Paul Pierce.

WTF?? That's like saying Jordan never went anywhere without Pippen. This is just about recognizing talent, and not about team-building, which hasn't usually been the athlete's responsibility (until "The Decision").

 

[TheKingofVa]

Wade is not an all time great guard. He has done and is doing the same thing Lebron gets criticized for. People forget Shaq had an MVP year when they won back in '06. Hell when Shaq left and it was solely Wades team they were garbage.....playing for the top pick in the draft. At least Lebron had his team in contention every year with lackluster help.

Yup, Wade was an after thought the last few years. He isn't an all-time great

 

[killa kadafi191]

Kobe rode Shaq and gasol.

It will be some judges who see that. Then remember everything Kobe has done. He scored 81. Most 3 pointers in a game. I could go on but they will look at the records he has set and broken. How many times he scored 50. How fast he rose to one of the top scorers.

That right there will be enough to place him among the goats.

Sadly wade will be judge the same way

 

[TheKingofVa]

WTF?? That's like saying Jordan never went anywhere without Pippen.

How can you compare the two? Jordan played in the golden era, of course he wasn't going to beat the 80's Celtics or Lakers by him self. But I expect Dwade to be able to beat the Atlanta Hawks by himself if he's an all time great. Also no team with an all-time great guard would have the worst record in the NBA

 

[Blunt]

Hell no, You can't put him over Jordan, Jerry West, Kobe, Drexler, Iverson, Hondo, Oscar (if you count him as a sg), George Gervin, David Thompson, and Earl Monroe. Players in this era so overrated

He's ALREADY better than Drexler, Iverson, Gervin, Thompson and Monroe, with a long way to go. There haven't been many 25-5-6 shooting guards in the league's history.

 

[Spectrum]

He couldn't get out the 1st round of the playoffs without another star, he's no better than Paul Pierce.

Cant the same thing be said about Kobe Bryant?

 

[BadNewzDarby]

If Wade gets the Finals MVP, it will propel Wade into All-time status and simultaneously hurt Lebron's legacy. So far, Wade is outplaying Lebron WHEN IT MATTERS MOST! That means something.

 

[Nobody]

Hm. If he wins a second title and second finals MVP he definitely vaults himself up the list of all time shooting guards.

But. Consider his finals competition, and his teams. The same way people always make sure to mention his role on the three peat lakers, Wade has won a title and is on the way to winning a title playing opposite a very favorable matchup.

Also he's playing alongside a teammates he's getting the majority of the defensive attention.

With that said I had him pegged as finishing his career as the 3rd best sg ever a few years ago, behind MJ and Kobe.

He has a chance to pass Kobe, but it'll depend on his production from here out.

 

[Les W]

You know what I don't hear enough talk of ????

The Wade-Bron tag team ... seems like they compliment each others weaknesses ... like when one is having an off night the other balls OUTRAGEOUS ... a lot ... they like the WWE cats ... Bron for several reasons seemed hesitant against boston in Game 1 ... but Wade really hit us in the jugular that first game though he was struggling in the 1st round iirc ....



@kingofVA I am a die hard Paul Pierce fan ... that's my dude ...
Wade ... I can't stand the guy and when he suplexed rondo it was officially a WRAP for me ever rooting him on .... BUT Pierce is not seeing Wade like that ... Wade is better ... and by himself keep the Heat relevant ... Pierce couldn't do that with the C's ... Don't get me wrong Pierce is a great but never been as athletic as Wade and talent wise he has a better jumper and Wade is a better driver ... I'd give the slight edge to Wade

 

[8SD8-retired_member]

Anyway...


Wade has flown under the megastar radar his entire career. Everyone knows he's great, but he's not celebrated like Lebron and Kobe. Never has been. Why? Media doesn't push him, for one. He didn't come in with great hype and great expectations.

Wade does not get the obsessive defensive focus that Kobe has gotten. Most people won't accept that, but I've noticed it, and commentators pointed it out more than once. Back when Stephen Jackson was on Indiana, and Brian Shaw was still in the league, Stephen Jackson stopped Kobe from penetrating two plays in a row. A few minutes later, however, a 36 year-old Brian Shaw managed to blow by him two plays back to back, and hit lay-ups. Bill Walton said, "Waaaait a minute. You play excellent defense on Kobe Bryant, but you let Brian Shaw blow by you two plays in a row?"

Dudes want to stop Kobe. Not only does the media hype him up as "unguardable", but he's also hated/envied by a number of his peers because of his accomplishments + his extreme self-confidence. He believes he can kill anyone, at any given moment, and that causes many guys to want to REALLY want to shut his ass down. Shit, Shane Battier had a fucking statistical breakdown of Kobe's game printed out, and he studied it for their playoff series a few years back. Who claimed to do that for Wade? It's not that dudes are letting Wade score, but Wade doesn't make coaches and players obsess over trying to stop him.

Shit, the Spurs even said Bowen was brought in to be a "Kobe stopper". Ruben Patterson was the self-proclaimed "Kobe stopper". This, ultimately, makes shit a lot harder for Kobe on the offensive end.

People talk about Kobe's low clutch shooting percentages, but they forget that his rep as the "greatest closer in the game" make coaches and players want to stop him more than anyone else. You can't manufacture that kind of intensity. Kobe naturally brings it up out of people. Hell, look at cranrab. Do you think, if he guarded Kobe, he'd guard him more intensely than any player in the league? Of course he would.

 

[Spectrum]

But. Consider his finals competition, and his teams. The same way people always make sure to mention his role on the three peat lakers, Wade has won a title and is on the way to winning a title playing opposite a very favorable matchup.
.

This cant be denied. There is no matter matchup for Wade than the Mavs.

 

[Blunt]

With that said I had him pegged as finishing his career as the 3rd best sg ever a few years ago, behind MJ and Kobe.

Jerry West is 2nd behind MJ.

 

[TheKingofVa]

Cant the same thing be said about Kobe Bryant?

Wade is no Kobe. A team with Kobe on it has never had the worst record in the NBA

 

[ukNoWwHo]

Wade is not an all time great guard. He has done and is doing the same thing Lebron gets criticized for. People forget Shaq had an MVP year when they won back in '06. Hell when Shaq left and it was solely Wades team they were garbage.....playing for the top pick in the draft. At least Lebron had his team in contention every year with lackluster help.

You mean that year that wade was hurt?

 

[Spectrum]

Anyway...

Wade has flown under the megastar radar his entire career. Everyone knows he's great, but he's not celebrated like Lebron and Kobe. Never has been. Why? Media doesn't push him, for one. He didn't come in with great hype and great expectations.

.

I guess that is my point. His career is still very young and he has recent some praise. But my point is this, are we witnessing a great player who has just had favorable matchups in the Finals and/or an all-time great player who does what the greatest of players do... have their best performances on the big-stage (like Reggie Mr. October Jackson).

Game 3 was one of the best games ive seen Wade play. Im not talking about overall point production..I really dont care about that.. But he literally controlled the flow of the game on both sides of the ball and eliminated two of his biggest problems (bad shots and turnovers).. he took no bad shots and committed no turnovers...that was almost a perfect game for Wade.

 

[8SD8-retired_member]

Jerry West is 2nd behind MJ.

 

[Spectrum]

Wade is no Kobe. A team with Kobe on it has never had the worst record in the NBA

I really dislike dishonest arguments. You are now moving the goal-post. Your original post said this

He couldn't get out the 1st round of the playoffs without another star, he's no better than Paul Pierce.

Without another star, not only did Kobe get bounced out of the playoffs in the first round every season, the Lakers also did not make the playoffs.

So are you withdrawing your original statement, because by the criteria, kobe fits right in Paul Pierce.

 

[8SD8-retired_member]

I guess that is my point. His career is still very young and he has recent some praise. But my point is this, are we witnessing a great player who has just had favorable matchups in the Finals and/or an all-time great player who does what the greatest of players do... have their best performances on the big-stage (like Reggie Mr. October Jackson).

Game 3 was one of the best games ive seen Wade play. Im not talking about overall point production..I really dont care about that.. But he literally controlled the flow of the game on both sides of the ball and eliminated two of his biggest problems (bad shots and turnovers).. he took no bad shots and committed no turnovers...that was almost a perfect game for Wade.

Well, again, the hype machine was not there in the beginning. Same with Durant. Great player, but people are very modest in their praise of him. He doesn't create fanaticism - be it love or hate - like 'Bron and Kobe.

I want Lebron to lose this Finals. I don't give a shit about Wade even getting number 2, though. I'll bet my bottom dollar Wade doesn't bring out the same intensity in defenders that Lebron does. Lebron is all in the media. He's "King James"; the "Chosen 1". Dudes want to see him fall flat on his face.

Wade?

If the media isn't hyping you up, people don't really care all that much.

 

[Spectrum]

Well, again, the hype machine was not there in the beginning. Same with Durant. Great player, but people are very modest in their praise of him. He doesn't create fanaticism - be it love or hate - like 'Bron and Kobe.

I want Lebron to lose this Finals. I don't give a shit about Wade even getting number 2, though. I'll bet my bottom dollar Wade doesn't bring out the same intensity in defenders that Lebron does. Lebron is all in the media. He's "King James"; the "Chosen 1". Dudes want to see him fall flat on his face.

Wade?

If the media isn't hyping you up, people don't really care all that much.

Agreed.