With All These Threads About Kobe

[RunawaySlave]

No one's gonna talk about what happened in game seven?!!?
You guy's are letting me down....

Without taking a shot, that was one of the MOST selfish displays
in playoff history.....

Maybe it was so obvious, that the Pro-Kobe crowd don't wanna
address it and the Anti-Kobe crowd don't wanna say,"I Told Ya
So"??

Could that be it??


I will admit that I was wrong about Nash.....He may not be the MVP
of the league, but he is clearly the Suns MVP

Tim Thomas is STILL a bum though.....It's just that he played against
a bigger bum on the Lakers

 

[TimRock]

I was wondering the same thing. I thought people would be ripping him left and right. I logged on right after the game was over and not even Cran was giving his usual updates. I was shocked.

But if you saw the post-game show with Kenny, Charles and Ernie, I agree with what Kenny said. No matter what kobe does, he will be criticized for it. He shoots the ball 35 times and they lose, its his fault. He shoots it 16 times and they lose, its still his fault. Whenever the Lakers lose a game, its always his fault. He can go 24 for 25, have 5 assists, 5 rebounds and like 4 TO's, they lose by 1 point, and its his fault. So when he starts to pass the ball more, people get upset for him not taking shots. What is he supposed to do? Im not taking up for him or saying what he did was right, cause i'm a laker fan. But I didnt want to see them go down like that, even though i did say it would be a blow out. He should just retire.

But anyway, this will be my last Laker/Kobe comment untill next season. They are no longer in, so theres no need to bring them up. The rest of the playoffs should be very interesting. The only team, IMO, that can guarantee a trip to the conference finals is Detroit. All the other series will be very interesting. Let's see how much Phoenix has left against the other LA team. Is Kurt Thomas coming back for this? They will need him against Elton and Kaman.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Kenny Smith was right, but there is also another thing he always
says about how it can be considered selfish when you DON'T take
an open shot and pass it to a man out of position

The reason why this can be considered selfish is not because Kobe
didn't shoot the ball, but what he would do AFTER he passed the
ball to a teammate

We all know the Lakers run the triangle....the triangle is dependent
upon MOTION from all five players. When one player doesn't do
his part, the entire offense bogs down....

If you noticed, whenever Kobe passed the ball, all he did was
stand in the EXACT same spot and wait. No motion whatsoever
Therefore, the Suns were able to play a zone against the rest
of the squad

I've seen him do this before, but to do it in a game 7..........

 

[cranrab]

With All These Threads About tobe

No one's gonna talk about what happened in game seven?!!?
You guy's are letting me down....

Without taking a shot, that was one of the MOST selfish displays
in playoff history.....

sorry, i was having too much heckling the tobe lovers on bgol...

Maybe it was so obvious, that the Pro-Kobe crowd don't wanna address it

tobe lovers are too basketball-challenged (in much the same way that i am baseball challenged) to understand what they witnessed...

and the Anti-Kobe crowd don't wanna say,"I Told Ya
So"??

i haven't had time to digest all of game 7... it's a train wreck... both breathtaking and sickening at the same time...

 

[SpiritualPorn]

No one's gonna talk about what happened in game seven?!!?
You guy's are letting me down....

Without taking a shot, that was one of the MOST selfish displays
in playoff history.....

Maybe it was so obvious, that the Pro-Kobe crowd don't wanna
address it and the Anti-Kobe crowd don't wanna say,"I Told Ya
So"??

Could that be it??


I will admit that I was wrong about Nash.....He may not be the MVP
of the league, but he is clearly the Suns MVP

Tim Thomas is STILL a bum though.....It's just that he played against
a bigger bum on the Lakers

Thats where I stand.

There is nothing left to say. It should be obvious by now what Kobe is......



A BITCH


Look at the posts.. If basketball was the Earth, our analysis of Kobe, now TOBE, would be Revelations.

I always said...we'll see..... and now we saw.

I've been waiting for Cran to sock it to him. The press is not calling Kobe out. If Shaq had done the same thing they would ask him to resign.

It was nice to see Barkley call him out. So did Bucher, and Kobe was his MVP choice. Bucher even brought up the Detroit series which some idiot told me Kobe didn't throw that series. OOOOOKKKKKAYYYYYYYYY.

If I was Phil I would look to pull off a trade for Kobe. I would straight get rid of him. Thats what I think Phil was planning anyway. Let Kobe fuck up then ask his Daddy in Law for a favor.

Who can they get for Kobe?

I would try for Lebron. Kobe showed that he is a quitter and a punk. After Raja punked him he was soft face to face. The fans started saying "Kobe Sucks" and it shook him.

Game 7 and this bitch QUITS.

I really hope those stupid Kobe > Jordan talk stops right now.

This punk ass said Bell couldn't stop him yet he fails to score(2nd Half). Can't have it both ways Tobe.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

I was wondering the same thing. I thought people would be ripping him left and right. I logged on right after the game was over and not even Cran was giving his usual updates. I was shocked.

But if you saw the post-game show with Kenny, Charles and Ernie, I agree with what Kenny said. No matter what kobe does, he will be criticized for it. He shoots the ball 35 times and they lose, its his fault. He shoots it 16 times and they lose, its still his fault. Whenever the Lakers lose a game, its always his fault. He can go 24 for 25, have 5 assists, 5 rebounds and like 4 TO's, they lose by 1 point, and its his fault. So when he starts to pass the ball more, people get upset for him not taking shots. What is he supposed to do? Im not taking up for him or saying what he did was right, cause i'm a laker fan. But I didnt want to see them go down like that, even though i did say it would be a blow out. He should just retire.

But anyway, this will be my last Laker/Kobe comment untill next season. They are no longer in, so theres no need to bring them up. The rest of the playoffs should be very interesting. The only team, IMO, that can guarantee a trip to the conference finals is Detroit. All the other series will be very interesting. Let's see how much Phoenix has left against the other LA team. Is Kurt Thomas coming back for this? They will need him against Elton and Kaman.

I guess he had bigger fish to fry, he had to get started early.

Tim, I guess you have nothing else to say. You rode Kobe all year and when the Kobe we told you about shows up,you have excuses.

If this was one game then I might agree. This however is a pattern of behavior.

Kobe is the typical bully. Big and bad when things go his way, a true punk bitch when he gets challanged.

Jordan had the same criticsm when he couldn't get past detroit. You never saw Jordan quit in a game seven.

Kobe quit. Plain and simple. Anyone who doesn't see that does not know sports in general. When someone quits,you see it in their eyes, their walk and the way they play.

That arrogant shit he said in the press conference about Bell was just more of the same kobe I can't stand.

No Kobe...we dont hate your swagger, we dont hate your game, we just love basketball, a sport you think should be lucky to have you.

No Kobe. We have seen your type come and go. You are not that special.

No Kobe, we know you are a punk ass. You elbow in a slick way but when challanged straight up. You laid down on the floor like a punk bitch who got what he deserved.

I hope LA trades Kobe's punk ass.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

The truth hurts. The Lakers played nearly flawless through the first four games, then it all came crashing down. There isn't too much to say that hasn't been said of Game 7. Defense was atrocious as we all saw. But Kobe did indeed throw in the towel and I would disagree that Kobe wouldn't throw a game 7. This guy has some sort of mental block or a sickness or something. So the Suns were throwing 2 guys at him. Teams have been doing that all season!! It never stopped him then. He gave up. He quit on his team. A very real possibility was that Kobe didn't want to take the blame for the loss when in all actuality he had a MAJOR role. The Suns aren't known for their D if I'm not mistaking. He had been playing well throughout the series being double teamed quite often. So why all of a sudden, down 20 in Game 7, quit? I am really unsure. As Nash said, he doesn't understand this guy sometimes. I don't think there is anyone who does. Its all about Kobe looking good and not being responsible for the loss. I'm sure Kobe's throwing in the towel was taken real well by his teammates, who already probably don't like him. Enjoy your summer Laker fans! The curse of Shaq lives on!

From the LA times blog

 

[TimRock]

Tim, I guess you have nothing else to say. You rode Kobe all year and when the Kobe we told you about shows up,you have excuses.

I didnt ride kobe at all. I just argued with you guys. How many kobe threads did i start? Zero. Who said the words Kobe, Toby, Tobe, Lakers or Fakers the most? Look it up, it wasnt me, and i'm a fan. I never once compared Kobe to Jordan, don't believe me, look at all my posts. I didn't make up any excuses, I just agreed with what Kenny Smith said. Thats all. Is that wrong? I mean, you guys seem more upset with kobe than all the lakers fans. Why do you care about what he did, if you don't support him? You all are taking it kind of personal. I mean, if someone i didn't like got eliminated from the playoffs, i wouldn't care how he played. Good riddance. So tell me, if you guys hate kobe, don't like his game, his personality, or whatever else, why are yall so mad about what he did? We see who the real "Tobe" fans are now.

Don't worry, Lebron is still playing. Lets get some Lebron threads started.

 

[TimRock]

From the LA times blog

Is someone listening to the media?

 

[cranrab]

With All These Threads About tobe

I was wondering the same thing. I thought people would be ripping him left and right.

why? did you see tobe do something that he should be ripped left and right for?

I logged on right after the game was over and not even Cran was giving his usual updates. I was shocked.

damn. where's kenny smith to defend ME when i need it? damned if i post unflattering TRUTH about tobe, damned if i don't...

boo hoo...

BTW, i'm flattered that you'd seek out my opinion so faithfully.

But if you saw the post-game show with Kenny, Charles and Ernie, I agree with what Kenny said. No matter what kobe does, he will be criticized for it. He shoots the ball 35 times and they lose, its his fault.

YES. it is tobe's fault when he shoots more than a reasonable amount of FGAs (for example, > 25 FGAs). you were paying attention during the regular season, so you KNOW that the fakers were a MARKEDLY superior team (.600+ winning percentage) in games where tobe shot 25 or fewer FGAs.

what casual fans don't understand about basketball is that there are GENERALLY a handful of negative consequences that are attached to having one player CONSISTENTLY take an inordinate amount of shots.

negative consequence 1: the physical aspect. some teammates need to have touches and shots to get warm. tobe tends to shoot without passing first, AND early in the shot clock, so he denies his teammates their rightful opportunity to get warm and enter the flow of games.

negative consequence 2: the mental aspect. ALL teammates need to feel involved and rewarded and BOTH ends of the floor. tobe REGULARLY abandons a PROFOUNDLY SUCCESSFUL STRUCTURED O in order to pursue selfish ego-drive scoring binges, thereby ROBBING his teammates of their participation and reward.

negative consequence 3: the experience aspect. NEW teammates need playing time in a new system to grasp its nuances and find comfort zones within the O. tobe tends to abandon the O, shoots without passing first, AND early in the shot clock, so he retarded the growth and development of his teammates. STUPID people unfamiliar with basketball claimed that tobe's teammates would simply pass him the ball, then sit back and wait for tobe to score. NO. tobe's teammates were passing him the ball, then became befuddled when they saw him break formation.

negative consequene 4: the opposition aspect. when tobe abandons the O, the opposition is THRILLED. the opposition no longer has to DEFEND against the multi-layered JUGGERNAUT that is the triangle. SMART COACHES entice tobe to shoot. tobe was the scoring leader BECAUSE TEAMS LET HIM SHOOT, and tobe is TOO DUMB TO FIGURE OUT THAT HE IS BEING BAITED. STUPID people unfamiliar with basketall claimed that opponents would use the strategy of "let tobe do his thing, and stop the other 4". NO. if you let tobe do his thing, tobe stops the other 4 BY HIMSELF. see consequences 1, 2 and 3 for explanation.

He shoots it 16 times and they lose, its still his fault.

well, YES, it is tobe's fault, but not simply because he had 16 FGAs.

tobe was 8-13 in the first half of game 7. tobe scored 23 points but the fakers found themselves down by 15 at halftime.

did you watch tobe demoralize his own teammates by barking orders throughout the game?

did you watch tobe make an ass of himself by losing raja bell (and giving up scores) on D BECAUSE HE WAS TOO BUSY pointing fingers at his teammates? watch the film, it's there...

did you watch tobe make a bigger ass of himself by losing leandro barbosa (and giving up scores) on D BECAUSE HE WAS TOO BUSY pointing fingers at his teammates? watch the film, it's there...

did you watch tobe fail to rotate on D from the weakside because he was too SCARED to give up the release valve pass along the baseline?

did you watch tobe abandon the O in the first half to launch shots from behind the arc? watch the film, it's there...

so tobe scored 23 in the 1st half... so what? during the halftime interview, shawn marion laughed out loud about how stupid tobe was to fall into that trap...

Whenever the Lakers lose a game, its always his fault.

nobody said that. the fakers lost 2 games to utah this season and tobe never even stepped foot on the court...

He can go 24 for 25, have 5 assists, 5 rebounds and like 4 TO's, they lose by 1 point, and its his fault.

let's not get carried away with the over dramatic exaggerations here. you show why your basketball thinking is remedial. NOT a dig at you AT ALL. just talking FACT.

24-25 FGAs is a great FG%. but you have to ask more of your hypothetical. were those 25 shots taken WITHIN THE O? did tobe demonstrate and maintain GOOD SHOT DISCIPLINE? again, tobe lovers and fakers fans do NOT understand that NOT ALL MADE SHOTS ARE GOOD SHOTS.

So when he starts to pass the ball more, people get upset for him not taking shots.

tell us. as a fakers fan, did YOU get upset because tobe didn't take more shots in the 2nd half?

the fakers were down by only 15 points entering the 2nd half; you don't think tobe pulled a bitch move and tanked the 2nd half because he got scolded during halftime?

tobe did a HUGE disservice to the team, his teammates and the fans. he should have sat down and benched himself instead of tanking the 2nd half. let someone who WANTS to play and WANTS to win have the opportunity to go to battle. put 5 warriors on the floor who WANT to compete; don't handcuff the four brave fighters on the floor by saddling them with a primadonna punk...

What is he supposed to do?

sit on the bench. be a 6th man. it's the only CORRECT thing to do. with fewer minutes played, tobe's incredibly poor decision making won't be as much of a liability as it currently is. with fewer minutes played, tobe's incredibly poor shot selection won't be as much of a liability as it currently is. entering the game with the 2nd squad, tobe's putrid lack of discipline and heart won't be able to contaminate the effort and morale of the starters.

Let's see how much Phoenix has left against the other LA team. Is Kurt Thomas coming back for this? They will need him against Elton and Kaman.

ok. this again, is NOT a dig directed at you. but i think casual fans show their lack of knowledge when they parrot what announcers have speculated about the clippers alleged size advantage over the suns.

the game plan devised by coach jackson was created with FAKERS personnel in mind. NOT the clippers personnel. simply stated, coach jackson created that game plan because the fakers have the talent to carry it out.

kwame brown has the size, strength and mobility that chris kaman does not. chris kaman has better defensive focus and fewer confidence issues, and i would put him on my squad before kwame brown, but that doesn't mean he can get position, seal his defender and finish as strong as kwame brown.

lamar odom had the size and ball handling ability to be the featured option of coach jackson's spread offense. elton brand has length and a tremendous post game, but he plays with his back to the basket a lot.

bottom line? front court size advantage yes, but vastly different players. don't expect the same game plan.

the clippers have defensive issues to address... how do sam cassell, cuttino mobley and shaun livingston intend to combat the speed and penetration of leandro barbosa and steve nash? can chris kaman defend either tim thomas or boris diaw on the perimeter? off the dribble? will quentin ross continue to start? or is corey maggette ready to enter the starting lineup for additional athetic firepower?

 

[cranrab]

With All These Threads About tobe

If I was Phil I would look to pull off a trade for Kobe. I would straight get rid of him. Thats what I think Phil was planning anyway.

coach jackson tried to trade tobe for jason kidd years ago. the good doctor buss didn't want to.

Who can they get for Kobe?

stephon marbury and eddie curry

 

[TimRock]

Ok, let me set the record straight. I don't claim to know everything, and I don't act like i know everything. What I say is simply my opinion, not facts.

tell us. as a fakers fan, did YOU get upset because tobe didn't take more shots in the 2nd half?

Truthfully, and this is the honest truth. I wasn't upset at all. I posted that the Lakers would lose by 18, but i was off. I knew they were gonna lose. Just like i had a feeling they would lose game 6. If you look back, you will see that after maybe game 1 or 2, i didnt make any comments on this series. Did I notice that Kobe wasn't shooting the ball much in the second half or try to take over. Yes I did. Was I mad? No. Im not that emotional when it comes to sports. I don't get anything if they win. Whats the most I can get out the Laker winning something. I get to come on here and argue with you guys some more. Its no big deal to me. I never said Kobe was the greatest or anything like that. I may have said he's a great player, but not THE greatest. So no, i was not mad at all. And honestly, i watched every minute of second half (I was out during the first half, recorded it, but no point in watching it) until the buzzer sounded in the fourth. I actually sayt there and watched them get blown out by 30 points. Thats not something a mad person would do.

ok. this again, is NOT a dig directed at you. but i think casual fans show their lack of knowledge when they parrot what announcers have speculated about the clippers alleged size advantage over the suns.

Again, this is just my opinion. I'm not Stephen A Smith or Greg Anthony. Im just stating an opinion. If I'm wrong, so what. Whats gonna happen. Its going to be a good series and I'm looking forward to it.

Also, I think Kobe should be traded. He should be traded to a team that has players that wont stand for his attitude and his method of playing. Nobody on the Lakers will tell Kobe this. Maybe he should go to a team LIKE San Antonion where his type of play will not be allowed.

Although I am a Kobe fan, i do recognize his faults, and i have acknowledged them. I even made a remark a while back that Kobe does not deserve to be in the HOF. But thats just my opinion.

Cran, I respect you knowledge of the game. And i will not be afraid to admit that you are more knowledgeable about the game than I am. I didnt play basketball as much as others. I just watch. But remember, i'm just giving my opinion. Thats all.

 

[TimRock]

Re: With All These Threads About tobe

stephon marbury and eddie curry

Thats funny.

I don't think the Lakers would except that.

 

[cranrab]

Re: With All These Threads About tobe

Ok, let me set the record straight. I don't claim to know everything, and I don't act like i know everything. What I say is simply my opinion, not facts.

i've never said otherwise. maybe you're confusing me with spiritualporn... just as he has mistaken you on occasion for trojansfan...

i was SINCERE when i said my comments were NOT digs at you...

 

[TimRock]

Re: With All These Threads About tobe

i've never said otherwise. maybe you're confusing me with spiritualporn... just as he has mistaken you on occasion for trojansfan...

i was SINCERE when i said my comments were NOT digs at you...

Yeah I know, im not directing that at anyone in particular. I just wanted to state that before I went any further.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

I didnt ride kobe at all. I just argued with you guys. How many kobe threads did i start? Zero. Who said the words Kobe, Toby, Tobe, Lakers or Fakers the most? Look it up, it wasnt me, and i'm a fan. I never once compared Kobe to Jordan, don't believe me, look at all my posts. I didn't make up any excuses, I just agreed with what Kenny Smith said. Thats all. Is that wrong? I mean, you guys seem more upset with kobe than all the lakers fans. Why do you care about what he did, if you don't support him? You all are taking it kind of personal. I mean, if someone i didn't like got eliminated from the playoffs, i wouldn't care how he played. Good riddance. So tell me, if you guys hate kobe, don't like his game, his personality, or whatever else, why are yall so mad about what he did? We see who the real "Tobe" fans are now.

Don't worry, Lebron is still playing. Lets get some Lebron threads started.

That is true

You have never said he is as good as Jordan.

I guess because you kinda defend Kobe, you kinda catch the wrath

I was rooting for Washington to beat LeBron and the refs. Didn't happen. However in the loss I gained a lot of respect for Gilbert Arenas. He played every minute and never quit.

I gained respect for The Kings and I always hated them from my LA days.

Whatever respect I had for tobe is gone wayyyyyyyy down. He played the blame game.

 

[DCMC]

Hopefully, the Jordan comparison stops.

 

[cranrab]

winners never quit, and quitters never win...

Hopefully, the Jordan comparison stops.

and hopefully, the roberto duran comparisons begin...

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: With All These Threads About tobe

why? did you see tobe do something that he should be ripped left and right for?



damn. where's kenny smith to defend ME when i need it? damned if i post unflattering TRUTH about tobe, damned if i don't...

boo hoo...

BTW, i'm flattered that you'd seek out my opinion so faithfully.



YES. it is tobe's fault when he shoots more than a reasonable amount of FGAs (for example, > 25 FGAs). you were paying attention during the regular season, so you KNOW that the fakers were a MARKEDLY superior team (.600+ winning percentage) in games where tobe shot 25 or fewer FGAs.

what casual fans don't understand about basketball is that there are GENERALLY a handful of negative consequences that are attached to having one player CONSISTENTLY take an inordinate amount of shots.

negative consequence 1: the physical aspect. some teammates need to have touches and shots to get warm. tobe tends to shoot without passing first, AND early in the shot clock, so he denies his teammates their rightful opportunity to get warm and enter the flow of games.

negative consequence 2: the mental aspect. ALL teammates need to feel involved and rewarded and BOTH ends of the floor. tobe REGULARLY abandons a PROFOUNDLY SUCCESSFUL STRUCTURED O in order to pursue selfish ego-drive scoring binges, thereby ROBBING his teammates of their participation and reward.

negative consequence 3: the experience aspect. NEW teammates need playing time in a new system to grasp its nuances and find comfort zones within the O. tobe tends to abandon the O, shoots without passing first, AND early in the shot clock, so he retarded the growth and development of his teammates. STUPID people unfamiliar with basketball claimed that tobe's teammates would simply pass him the ball, then sit back and wait for tobe to score. NO. tobe's teammates were passing him the ball, then became befuddled when they saw him break formation.

negative consequene 4: the opposition aspect. when tobe abandons the O, the opposition is THRILLED. the opposition no longer has to DEFEND against the multi-layered JUGGERNAUT that is the triangle. SMART COACHES entice tobe to shoot. tobe was the scoring leader BECAUSE TEAMS LET HIM SHOOT, and tobe is TOO DUMB TO FIGURE OUT THAT HE IS BEING BAITED. STUPID people unfamiliar with basketall claimed that opponents would use the strategy of "let tobe do his thing, and stop the other 4". NO. if you let tobe do his thing, tobe stops the other 4 BY HIMSELF. see consequences 1, 2 and 3 for explanation.



well, YES, it is tobe's fault, but not simply because he had 16 FGAs.

tobe was 8-13 in the first half of game 7. tobe scored 23 points but the fakers found themselves down by 15 at halftime.

did you watch tobe demoralize his own teammates by barking orders throughout the game?

did you watch tobe make an ass of himself by losing raja bell (and giving up scores) on D BECAUSE HE WAS TOO BUSY pointing fingers at his teammates? watch the film, it's there...

did you watch tobe make a bigger ass of himself by losing leandro barbosa (and giving up scores) on D BECAUSE HE WAS TOO BUSY pointing fingers at his teammates? watch the film, it's there...

did you watch tobe fail to rotate on D from the weakside because he was too SCARED to give up the release valve pass along the baseline?

did you watch tobe abandon the O in the first half to launch shots from behind the arc? watch the film, it's there...

so tobe scored 23 in the 1st half... so what? during the halftime interview, shawn marion laughed out loud about how stupid tobe was to fall into that trap...



nobody said that. the fakers lost 2 games to utah this season and tobe never even stepped foot on the court...



let's not get carried away with the over dramatic exaggerations here. you show why your basketball thinking is remedial. NOT a dig at you AT ALL. just talking FACT.

24-25 FGAs is a great FG%. but you have to ask more of your hypothetical. were those 25 shots taken WITHIN THE O? did tobe demonstrate and maintain GOOD SHOT DISCIPLINE? again, tobe lovers and fakers fans do NOT understand that NOT ALL MADE SHOTS ARE GOOD SHOTS.



tell us. as a fakers fan, did YOU get upset because tobe didn't take more shots in the 2nd half?

the fakers were down by only 15 points entering the 2nd half; you don't think tobe pulled a bitch move and tanked the 2nd half because he got scolded during halftime?

tobe did a HUGE disservice to the team, his teammates and the fans. he should have sat down and benched himself instead of tanking the 2nd half. let someone who WANTS to play and WANTS to win have the opportunity to go to battle. put 5 warriors on the floor who WANT to compete; don't handcuff the four brave fighters on the floor by saddling them with a primadonna punk...



sit on the bench. be a 6th man. it's the only CORRECT thing to do. with fewer minutes played, tobe's incredibly poor decision making won't be as much of a liability as it currently is. with fewer minutes played, tobe's incredibly poor shot selection won't be as much of a liability as it currently is. entering the game with the 2nd squad, tobe's putrid lack of discipline and heart won't be able to contaminate the effort and morale of the starters.



ok. this again, is NOT a dig directed at you. but i think casual fans show their lack of knowledge when they parrot what announcers have speculated about the clippers alleged size advantage over the suns.

the game plan devised by coach jackson was created with FAKERS personnel in mind. NOT the clippers personnel. simply stated, coach jackson created that game plan because the fakers have the talent to carry it out.

kwame brown has the size, strength and mobility that chris kaman does not. chris kaman has better defensive focus and fewer confidence issues, and i would put him on my squad before kwame brown, but that doesn't mean he can get position, seal his defender and finish as strong as kwame brown.

lamar odom had the size and ball handling ability to be the featured option of coach jackson's spread offense. elton brand has length and a tremendous post game, but he plays with his back to the basket a lot.

bottom line? front court size advantage yes, but vastly different players. don't expect the same game plan.

the clippers have defensive issues to address... how do sam cassell, cuttino mobley and shaun livingston intend to combat the speed and penetration of leandro barbosa and steve nash? can chris kaman defend either tim thomas or boris diaw on the perimeter? off the dribble? will quentin ross continue to start? or is corey maggette ready to enter the starting lineup for additional athetic firepower?

Thats exactly how I see it.

Your analysis is great as usual Cran

I really think that team ball is a head thing. If I can't catch a pass and shoot you better beleive that I wont be diving on the floor for loose balls or jumping up an extra time for a rebound.

Your point about made shots not being good shots is valid. I see plenty of times where guys are one on three on the break and pull up for a three with no other teammates under the rim/ Even if they make the three it is not a good shot to take.

I seriously don't think anyone should underestimate the Suns again.
It's about heart. The Suns now don't think they are out of any series or game. That is a dangerous thing to face.

What could the Lakers get for Kobe? Was Phil thinking about a trade with his "big changes" comment.

What is Shaq thinking right now? I would love to hear his comments.

Dallas and SA.... who ya got.

Miami tonight...Shaq attack

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Ok, let me set the record straight. I don't claim to know everything, and I don't act like i know everything. What I say is simply my opinion, not facts.



Truthfully, and this is the honest truth. I wasn't upset at all. I posted that the Lakers would lose by 18, but i was off. I knew they were gonna lose. Just like i had a feeling they would lose game 6. If you look back, you will see that after maybe game 1 or 2, i didnt make any comments on this series. Did I notice that Kobe wasn't shooting the ball much in the second half or try to take over. Yes I did. Was I mad? No. Im not that emotional when it comes to sports. I don't get anything if they win. Whats the most I can get out the Laker winning something. I get to come on here and argue with you guys some more. Its no big deal to me. I never said Kobe was the greatest or anything like that. I may have said he's a great player, but not THE greatest. So no, i was not mad at all. And honestly, i watched every minute of second half (I was out during the first half, recorded it, but no point in watching it) until the buzzer sounded in the fourth. I actually sayt there and watched them get blown out by 30 points. Thats not something a mad person would do.



Again, this is just my opinion. I'm not Stephen A Smith or Greg Anthony. Im just stating an opinion. If I'm wrong, so what. Whats gonna happen. Its going to be a good series and I'm looking forward to it.

Also, I think Kobe should be traded. He should be traded to a team that has players that wont stand for his attitude and his method of playing. Nobody on the Lakers will tell Kobe this. Maybe he should go to a team LIKE San Antonion where his type of play will not be allowed.

Although I am a Kobe fan, i do recognize his faults, and i have acknowledged them. I even made a remark a while back that Kobe does not deserve to be in the HOF. But thats just my opinion.

Cran, I respect you knowledge of the game. And i will not be afraid to admit that you are more knowledgeable about the game than I am. I didnt play basketball as much as others. I just watch. But remember, i'm just giving my opinion. Thats all.

This is one LA fan I can respect

For the record, Tim did predict they would lose Game 7 big. I honestly thought they would win this series because of Phil's game plan. If the game plan is dependent on Kobe's maturity as a team leader than we have a problem.

I really thought Kobe would get past this arrogant ego bullshit. I guess I was wrong.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: With All These Threads About tobe

coach jackson tried to trade tobe for jason kidd years ago. the good doctor buss didn't want to.



stephon marbury and eddie curry

It's that bad?

Damn

I think Eric Snow and Damon Jones might be available.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

From the LA times:

Today's this-hallway-isn't-big-enough-for-both-of-us edition of The Sporting Muse:

Kobe Bryant's value just keeps increasing.

Seriously. We all know how omnipotent he became in the eyes of Lakers owner Jerry Buss when the owner chose to side with the young star in the Shaquille O'Neal showdown.

Even if you believe it was the right decision for a lot of reasons, and believe that Shaq isn't going to ever win a title again, either, it still made no sense from a competitive point of view. We wouldn't be talking about the Lakers blowing a 3-1 series lead against Phoenix if the two were still teammates. We might be talking about Shaq's weight and Kobe's attitude, but it would be en route to the conference finals.

Now we can see that he's even more valuable in the context of his play with the Lakers. When he's motivated to be the best he can be, he can soar over a team by himself. And when his motivations ebb, he can suck the life out of a moment quicker than Ted Kennedy on C-SPAN.

In Game 6 of the Suns series, Kobe scored 50 points and his team had a late lead and lost in overtime. So how does it track that he takes just three shots and scores one point in the second half of their Game 7 loss Saturday?

Phoenix didn't do anything in Game 7 they didn't do in Game 6. They pressed Kobe and dared him to pass. In Game 6, Bryant rose to the challenge and scored. In Game 7, he pouted? Gave up? Wanted to make a point about his worth? Wanted to get home to his new baby? All of the above?

Anyone talking about Bryant being the MVP of anything other than his own closet is merely as myopic as Al Davis. I define a MVP by wins, and Bryant hasn't won anything since Shaq left other than Buss' affection.

And I don't think he ever will. If you liked this year's Lakers team, you'll love them next year, too, because the chance of them acquiring better parts is remote. Not only is the free-agent class spotty, but they have nothing to offer anyone in a trade.

No one wants Lamar Odom, no one in their right mind would take Kwame Brown, Smush Parker returned to his rightful level, and the rest of the cast works hard and wins often enough to shade the right side of .500. And that's that.

But, hey, Kobe had that 81-point game. Pop that in the VCR and see how well it plays now if you can pull yourself away from the TV and the Clippers' telecasts.

Phoenix can't depend on the Clippers being as accommodating as the Lakers when it comes to defense and a lack of options.

Elton Brand and Chris Kaman are not going to allow Shawn Marion and Boris Diaw to have a steady inside presence, Quinton Ross is an upgrade defensively on Steve Nash, and Sam Cassell, Cuttino Mobley and Corey Maggette give the backcourt plenty of firepower.

TOLD YA SO

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: winners never quit, and quitters never win...

and hopefully, the roberto duran comparisons begin...

On tha real

Kobe was telling Raja "No Mas"

Kobe said okay I'll go fishing

The punk ass B__II_OOO__TT__CC__HHH

 

[xfactor]

No one's gonna talk about what happened in game seven?!!?
You guy's are letting me down....

Without taking a shot, that was one of the MOST selfish displays
in playoff history.....

I'm still at that performance by the MDP in Game 7. People might call me a 'Wobe hater' but in reality I was a long time Lakers fan from '91 -'04. I just cant support that bum because his garbage style of play enables for the other team to get a heavy advantage during games. It's like playing 4 on 6 when Wobe is on the court because his lack of D, shot selection, and lack of focus harm the team. This should be a testament to the fact that the guy's lack of leadership will never allow for him to be the primary focus on a team and like I've said before, he is suited much better to be the 2nd option in an offense because he isnt smart enough to be the primary figure.

As far as watch Kenny Smith said, he was right to a degree except he failed to mention Wobe would get blamed for not shooting because when he doesnt shoot, its almost always to prove that the team cant be successful without him taking his normal trash shots and his lack of movement in the O and his constant passing up of open shots is why he harms the team whether he shoots or not. The idiot is too stupid to find a middle that can be both helpful to his numbers and the teams wins.

Maybe it was so obvious, that the Pro-Kobe crowd don't wanna
address it and the Anti-Kobe crowd don't wanna say,"I Told Ya
So"??

Like cranrab said, it seems like most people who support Wobe cant comment because they dont understand. If people actually watched the game, they would see how disruptive he was to the team on O (jacking FGA early in the shot clock, standing around, passing up open shots -which he did a lot in the 2h) and on D (going under screens against 3 point shooters, not playing Barbosa with a proper gap to allow him to get beat at will) then miscellanous things like yelling at teammates, QUITTING on the team at the end, then being a poor sport at the end walking off the court without congratulating the Suns.


Wobe Marbury is a cancer and Im almost convinced that if they traded him for even a DECENT shooting guard that understands the team concept (Joe Johnson comes to mind -with matching salaries) the current team could win 50 wins and the division.

As a matter of fact, trade Wobe to the Hawks for JJ and a 1st round pick and watch how the Lakers improve.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Not THAT'S more like it...You guys make me proud
The pros AND the cons. I like the way shit got
broken down here

Unfortunately, I missed most of the first half, I only
caught the second where all Kobe did was pass and
stand. Now I understand why....nice breakdown Cran


and hell yea...I would of benched him too. But there
are some politics involved in benching him....it would
almost definitely lead to him leaving town and I don't
believe that would be decided in that quick of an instance


I just feel bad for the rest of the team. They have to pay
the consequences for his actions....or rather his INactions

 

[TimRock]

I just feel bad for the rest of the team. They have to pay
the consequences for his actions....or rather his INactions

I don't. The same way Gary Payton and Wade got into it, someone needs to get into it with Kobe. His ego is getting bigger, and there's no one to calm him down. Not even Phil. Phil is getting his 10 mil, so what does he care. Who's gonna grab Kobe and yell at him? Sasha? If they had more of an enforcer on their team, he wouldnt get away with what hes doing. When Fox, Shaw and Grant were on the team, he never did these types of things. Time for some major player movement in LA.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

I don't. The same way Gary Payton and Wade got into it, someone needs to get into it with Kobe. His ego is getting bigger, and there's no one to calm him down. Not even Phil. Phil is getting his 10 mil, so what does he care. Who's gonna grab Kobe and yell at him? Sasha? If they had more of an enforcer on their team, he wouldnt get away with what hes doing. When Fox, Shaw and Grant were on the team, he never did these types of things. Time for some major player movement in LA.

Thats the whole point.

BJ Armstrong always told a story of Jordan punking out Bill Cartwright. After practice Bill pulls Jordan aside and told him "If you ever talk to me like that again, I will break your legs". I don't think it was that intense however the story conveys how a vetran will put a young gun in his place.

Most NBA players will tell you (Cran , jump in anytime) that when they went from High School to the College level it was a humbling experience. They were the all star at their High School and took every shot and was the hero. They get to colloge everyone was "The MAN" on their team. They had to adjust real quick. Sometimes they had to come off the bench and practice hard to earn playing time. This is a humbling experience.

I don't think Kobe has ever had to deal with that. He comes out of High School with alot of hype and to an ideal situation. He wins Championships and felt like he is the man. From there his ego grew out of control.

Now he is the poster boy for athletes with attitudes.

You're alright Tim. You're the only Laker fan that is somewhat objective.

I would like to see the Lakers do something bold in the off season. The best trade would be Lebron for Kobe.

 

[TimRock]

Thats the whole point.

BJ Armstrong always told a story of Jordan punking out Bill Cartwright. After practice Bill pulls Jordan aside and told him "If you ever talk to me like that again, I will break your legs". I don't think it was that intense however the story conveys how a vetran will put a young gun in his place.

Most NBA players will tell you (Cran , jump in anytime) that when they went from High School to the College level it was a humbling experience. They were the all star at their High School and took every shot and was the hero. They get to colloge everyone was "The MAN" on their team. They had to adjust real quick. Sometimes they had to come off the bench and practice hard to earn playing time. This is a humbling experience.

I don't think Kobe has ever had to deal with that. He comes out of High School with alot of hype and to an ideal situation. He wins Championships and felt like he is the man. From there his ego grew out of control.

Now he is the poster boy for athletes with attitudes.

You're alright Tim. You're the only Laker fan that is somewhat objective.

I would like to see the Lakers do something bold in the off season. The best trade would be Lebron for Kobe.

Isnt Lebron gonna be a free agent? I doubt cleveland would sign and trade Lebron for Kobe. Kobe and Larry Hughes? Nah. They love him there. I wonder if he will leave. I don't even know what the lakers need to do this summer. But i know they need some veteran leadership, a veteran that can still get the job done. Jim Jackson was ok, but he didnt get much playing time. Aaron McKie.......did he ever play? If Jim Jackson played more time, he would be a good fit. But then that would also mean, that either Luke Walton or Deveon George wouldnt see much playing time. Although, with Luke having a good season, i expect Deveon to be moved this season, along with Mihm. Hopefully, they can get something good in return, like a back-up shooting guard and a power forward. But if Kobe is moved (which i doubt), a Paul Pierce for Kobe (if the salaries fit) would be fine with me. I wouldn't be opposed to Kobe coming to NY either.

 

[cranrab]

With All These Threads About tobe

I don't. The same way Gary Payton and Wade got into it, someone needs to get into it with Kobe. His ego is getting bigger, and there's no one to calm him down. Not even Phil.

the problem, TR, is that the fakers organization (by that i mean the owner, GM, and coach) INSTRUCT ALL PLAYERS to coddle tobe... veterans and rookies alike are told that they MUST praise his play and CAN NOT speak poorly about him in the media... players are REQUIRED to stroke tobe's fragile BITCH ego to prevent a kwame brown like meltdown (which results in shot boycotts and game 7 type surrenders)...

coach jackson couldn't even speak his mind about tobe until AFTER he got canned and published a book...

shaquille o'neal spoke his mind about tobe and became the fakers scapegoat...

EDIT: forgot to add one of my FAVORITE points. most tobe fans are too young to accurately remember that tobe only STARTED 7 GAMES in his FIRST TWO FULL SEASONS...

the reason why?

coach harris KNEW (as i did also) that tobe was TOO STUPID to play the game correctly (both offensively, and ESPECIALLY on D)... that didn't sit well with jerry buss, who had become infatuated with the earning potential of a marketing tool which would allow him to tap into the pockets of young nba fans... well, we all know what happened to coach harris in YEAR THREE of tobe's career don't we?

jerry buss FORCED coach harris to START tobe AGAINST coach harris' wishes, and 12 games into the season, coach harris was FIRED because he wanted what was best for the TEAM: keep tobe on the bench...

it should come as NO coincidence that during THAT SAME SEASON where tobe became a STARTER under jerry buss' ORDER, the fakers had their WORST start of the shaquille o'neal era (6-6). that season, where tobe STARTED every game, was the SECOND WORST (.620) in the ENTIRE SPAN of the shaquille o'neal era. what was the WORST season of the shaquille o'neal era? you guessed it. THE ONLY OTHER SEASON IN WHICH TOBE STARTED EVERY GAME (.610).

 

[Spectrum]

Re: winners never quit, and quitters never win...

and hopefully, the roberto duran comparisons begin...

oooww that´s low..but true

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Isnt Lebron gonna be a free agent? I doubt cleveland would sign and trade Lebron for Kobe. Kobe and Larry Hughes? Nah. They love him there. I wonder if he will leave. I don't even know what the lakers need to do this summer. But i know they need some veteran leadership, a veteran that can still get the job done. Jim Jackson was ok, but he didnt get much playing time. Aaron McKie.......did he ever play? If Jim Jackson played more time, he would be a good fit. But then that would also mean, that either Luke Walton or Deveon George wouldnt see much playing time. Although, with Luke having a good season, i expect Deveon to be moved this season, along with Mihm. Hopefully, they can get something good in return, like a back-up shooting guard and a power forward. But if Kobe is moved (which i doubt), a Paul Pierce for Kobe (if the salaries fit) would be fine with me. I wouldn't be opposed to Kobe coming to NY either.

Kobe and Larry Brown??????????

That would be something to see.

George needs to be moved for sure.

I really wonderded why JJ didn't play more minutes. He is ususally solid for some offense.

PP had a good season . He would do damage with Odom and Brown.

I am starting to see why Cran always says that Odom should be the primary option in the triangle. Whit Odom's diversity he would run it with precision. With a Paul P,

Phil said there would be BIG changes? I wonder if that meant Kobe?

McKie? I always remember as a defensive guy. I don't think he can run with these kids today.Mhim? Keep.

Luke...Keeper. You don't want to have to teach the triangle all over again.

Something needs to be done.

This was Kobe's best chance to prove the Lakers did the right thing in keeping him over Shaq and he quit on his team.

 

[cranrab]

With All These Threads About tobe

George needs to be moved for sure.

i've always like devean george... he's a hustler for loose balls and rebounds, a slasher, a finisher and a decent threat from distance... he should've flown the coop when the mass exodus began: robert horry, shaquille o'neal, gary payton, karl malone, derek fisher...

I am starting to see why Cran always says that Odom should be the primary option in the triangle. Whit Odom's diversity he would run it with precision. With a Paul P,

while i do enjoy watching paul pierce create O with the ball in his hands, i'm still not sold on his ability to function within a structured O. plus, he loves his life in boston...

McKie? I always remember as a defensive guy. I don't think he can run with these kids today.Mhim? Keep.

aaron mckie never recovered from his injury... even if he gets a spot on a roster, it's not likely that he'll see many minutes anywhere he ends up...

This was Kobe's best chance to prove the Lakers did the right thing in keeping him over Shaq and he quit on his team.

two things about this.

game 7 happened in phoenix, with coach k and jerry colangelo sitting in the stands... think coach k was happy to see that kind of play from tobe? think jerry colangelo is kicking himself for not demanding a LARGER BRIBE from nike for HANDING tobe a spot on the USA olympic squad?

last night during TNT's broadcast of the suns v. clippers, ernie johnson said that tobe had 'communicated' with charles barkley about his unflattering post game 7 remarks. anybody got the video? or a link to the transcript?

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: winners never quit, and quitters never win...

oooww that´s low..but true

eewwll

I've been waiting to hear your commentary on Kobe's mindset.

Will the Heat beat your beloved Pistons? (or NJ for that matter)

I have the Heat in 6.

Can Lebron rebound?

How bout them Suns!!!!!!

Dallas over SA??

 

[cranrab]

from the l.a. times

From the Los Angeles Times
T.J. SIMERS
Bryant Just Quit, and the Suns and Clippers Play On
T.J. Simers

May 9, 2006

PHOENIX — Great news here, of course, for the Clippers who began round two of the playoffs without Kobe Bryant.

How awful would it have been for the Clippers to have signed the guy, finally make the playoffs — only then to learn Bryant is liable to tank it at any time?

The fact is, after the Lakers' last performance, the best scorer in the game can no longer be trusted.

In the seventh game of a playoff series, a game in which Bryant scored 23 points in the first half, Bryant returned to the floor with the Lakers down by 15 to take three shots and score one point.

What if he had taken the same approach a few years back when the Lakers found themselves down by 15 in the fourth quarter only to rally, win and eventually claim an NBA title?

Amazingly, the media in L.A. gave Bryant nothing but a free ride after the Lakers went dead against the Suns.

HEY, THE GREATEST CLOSER IN THE GAME TOOK THREE SHOTS IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SEVENTH GAME OF A PLAYOFF SERIES AND SCORED ONE POINT!

That's a shocking story!

Something had to be said at halftime inside the Laker locker room to irritate Bryant, igniting the immaturity that apparently still rests deep inside, thereby throwing him into a full-blown pout. And we've seen that before. Sacramento a few years back immediately comes to mind.

I guess we'll have to wait for Phil Jackson's next book to learn what really happened behind closed doors.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SOME PEOPLE liken Bryant to Michael Jordan, but help me here, can anyone point to a moment in Jordan's career when he tanked it with the season on the line?

It's one thing to shoot and miss and lose the big game, they have both done that. But to shut it down, only pass the ball — and finish with one assist, Bryant cheated every Laker fan who sat there telling his friends, "You watch, Kobe will bring us back."

Forget about the score, the inept play of Bryant's inconsistent teammates, the Lakers' chances to eventually win that game. It's all irrelevant.

There is nothing short of knowing that his leg has been sawed off to think Bryant, the "Love me or hate me" and "Just do it!" competitor that everyone has known him to be, would be limited to three shots in the second half of a seventh game of a playoff series.

One of the assistant coaches in this building for the Clipper-Sun playoff game said he had lost all respect for Bryant after witnessing him quit Saturday night, and if memory serves, this guy was one of Bryant's biggest promoters.

so who was the assistant coach?

Jim Eyen
Kim Hughes
Rory White
Neal Meyer
Marc Iavaroni
Alvin Gentry
Phil Weber
Dan D'Antoni
Todd Quinter

 

[cranrab]

from the hartford courant

The Big Story



By MATT EAGAN
Courant Staff Writer

May 8 2006

Kobe Bryant is not Michael Jordan. He is the Bizarro Jordan.

Jordan started his professional career as a high-scoring, acrobatic phenom who struggled to win respect as a champion.

Finally, the Bulls surrounded him with enough talent and he became, next to Bill Russell, the greatest winner in NBA history.

Bryant had the great fortune to be surrounded by talent early in his NBA career.

He helped the Lakers to three championships but eventually forced out anyone else who might demand the ball.

Now Bryant is free to score 81 points in a game but can't get out of the first round of the playoffs.

Against Phoenix, in a Game 7 loss Saturday, Bryant scored 24 points - 23 in the first half.

He took only three shots after halftime as the Suns ran to a 31-point victory.

"If we were going to get back into this type of game, we have to have everybody contributing," Bryant said after the game.

He apparently did not notice the irony of his statement.

Bryant, through his personality, has made sure the Lakers don't have anyone else ready to contribute in such a spot.

And yet, there are those who will tell you that Bryant is the best player in the NBA.

They will tell you that Bryant, not Shaquille O'Neal, was the star of the Lakers during their championship run.

Such is O'Neal's curse.

When Orlando was winning, Penny Hardaway was on his way to becoming NBA royalty.

Then it was Bryant.

Now it's Dwyane Wade.

One might think people would notice that Orlando and Los Angeles fell off the map after O'Neal left and that Miami wasn't on it before he arrived.

One might think people would notice that O'Neal is still playing this week.

Phoenix's victory did more than expose Bryant's limitations.

The Los Angeles Clippers are a sympathetic group working against the franchise's history of futility, but NBA fans should root for the Suns in this series.

Nothing against the Clippers, but for the last several years the NBA has been waking from the slow-motion nightmare of the late 1990s and early 2000s.

All that is necessary to open a new era of exciting, expansive basketball is playoff success for Phoenix, which favors the end-to-end style above all others.

If the Suns can reach the NBA Finals, other teams will begin to copy their style, and with players such as LeBron James (the true heir to Air Jordan) reaching maturity the league should have an exciting product to sell for the next decade.