What is the Black Position on Illegal Immigration ???

blackbull1970

The Black Bastard
Platinum Member
It seems kinda funny how all of a sudden there is all this talk about Illegal Immigration.

These mofo's been coming over the border since the Pilgrims got off the damn Mayflower......now all of a sudden it's a big issue.

My opinion is that the Republican's are making this a big issue to get mofo's to forget about everything else, like Iraq/Afghanistan, the Economy and other more important things.

Similiar to what they did back during the 2004 campaign screaming and hollering about Stem cell research, Abortion, and Gay Marriage. After the 2004 election, I aint heard jack shit about that stuff.

And I doubt anybody is going to hear shit about illegal immigration after the 2006 Elections.

Peace.
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
[frame]http://obama.senate.gov/press/060515-obama_statement_on_president_bushs_speech_on_immigration_reform/index.html[/frame]
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
<font size="5"><center>Obama Statement on President Bush's Speech
on Immigration Reform</font size></center>


Monday, May 15, 2006
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Washington Contact: Robert Gibbs or Tommy Vietor, (202) 228-5511
Illinois Contact: Julian Green, (312) 886-3506
Date: May 15, 2006

Obama Statement on President Bush's Speech on Immigration Reform

WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) Monday released the following statement about President Bush's speech on immigration reform:

"The first priority of any immigration reform should be to secure our nation's borders. In that respect, the President's proposal has merit as a temporary solution. After three years of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, our National Guard is stretched dangerously thin, and so we must know how long they will be there and when they will be replaced with trained border patrol agents that can provide permanent security.

"We also know that border security is only one side of the equation. Comprehensive immigration reform cannot succeed without a plan to bring the undocumented out of the shadows and offer them a path to citizenship, after they pay a substantial fine and back taxes, learn English, satisfy a work requirement, and pass a background check. Whether or not the President can repair the divisions in his own party so that we can pass this type of reform will be the true test of our ability to secure our borders in the months to come."

http://obama.senate.gov/press/06051...bushs_speech_on_immigration_reform/index.html
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
header.jpg

`


<font size="5"><center>Scott Responds to Bush border plan</font size></center>

Washington, May 16 - Congressman Scott issued the following statement regarding the President's border plan:


I am glad that the President is finally speaking to the nation about this urgent issue. Constituents from all parts of my district continue to share their concerns with illegal immigration with me.

Before we address the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.S, we must secure the porous border between the U.S. and Mexico. I agree with the President that additional security is needed at the border, including the use of the National Guard.

However, this is only a temporary solution. There are 1,000 fewer Border Patrol Agents than were proposed in the 9/11 Act. In fact, the Border Patrol participated in the jobs fair that I hosted this past Friday. I believe that Congress should fully fund the Border Patrol, increase surveillance technology and erect fencing where needed to strengthen the border. Once that is done, we can begin to deal with the immigrants currently in the country.

http://davidscott.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=43741
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
[frame]http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny10_towns/immigration.html[/frame]
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
`


About the publishers of the article above:


[frame]http://watchingamerica.com/about.shtml[/frame]
 

Makkonnen

The Quizatz Haderach
BGOL Investor
:smh: @ that tunisian faggotry

tunisian propaganda said:
In 2004, 72% of America's Black community between the ages of 20 and 30 having had abandoned high school and were unemployed, while only 19% of Hispanics were in a similar position. Latinos survive better because of their accommodating attitude toward employment, which fir in nicely with capitalist ethics: they accept working long hours at low salaries. They hardly ever complain and rarely avail themselves of the social protections that normal employees would.

To summarize, Black Americans are worried and are asking themselves: Will the power of Latino immigrants diminish the value of their secular struggle and speed their marginalization?

WTF????????????? I didnt know 72% of all black americans between the ages of 20 and 30 are high school dropouts and are unemployed

:smh: post some klan shit claiming all blacks are on welfare and carry fried chicken in their pockets
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
Makkonnen said:
:smh: @ that tunisian faggotry



WTF????????????? I didnt know 72% of all black americans between the ages of 20 and 30 are high school dropouts and are unemployed

:smh: post some klan shit claiming all blacks are on welfare and carry fried chicken in their pockets
I saw that and was not sure what was meant. I noted that the article was translated from french - which may have accounted for the poor wording of the sentence. I took it to mean 72% of those who dropped out of school who are now between the ages of 20 and 30 were experiencing unemployment. I arrived at that conclusion because of the poor wording and, like yourself, I know damn well we are not dropping out of school at the rate of 72 damn percent!

On the other hand, I'm not foreclosing the idea that the article had some racial animus. Sometimes, you can't be too damn careful.

QueEx
 

Makkonnen

The Quizatz Haderach
BGOL Investor
QueEx said:
I saw that and was not sure what was meant. I noted that the article was translated from french - which may have accounted for the poor wording of the sentence. I took it to mean 72% of those who dropped out of school who are now between the ages of 20 and 30 were experiencing unemployment. I arrived at that conclusion because of the poor wording and, like yourself, I know damn well we are not dropping out of school at the rate of 72 damn percent!

On the other hand, I'm not foreclosing the idea that the article had some racial animus. Sometimes, you can't be too damn careful.

QueEx
Yeah because it sounds like that black male unemployment figure from the nytimes a few months ago but it reads a hellulalot different.
Agreed also on the racism aspect. Tunis? I'd guess a bullshit islamic nation still corrupted by French Colonialist Racists and their influence still from Algeria. Say what you want about Khaddafi but he'd never let some faggots run down lies or even propaganda with a slant like that even if he didn't practice the same tolerance himself.


If they made a mistake on the wording- fuck em
If they didnt - fuck em
I hope sub saharan africans drive them into the Mediterranean in their exodus to europe. Funny how arab skull bashers have the nerve to think they can write about black american feelings on southern immigration movements, those assholes in Morocco have africans living in the fucking woods and killed a bunch of them and had them strung up on barbedwire a few months back. That's how a rabs fight illegal aliens- with bullets
 
C

Cocoa

Guest
i say ship them mudfuckaz back to where there from, i dont care if there hatian or mexican...How are they going to break the law and sneak in THE United States, then expect to live here happy Ever after. :rolleyes: .There not Citizens and I think they should have NO rights... :rolleyes: If they don't want to follow the laws of our country and become a united states citizen by LAW, they have no business being here, but I have no problem with the LEGAL immigrants. :cool:
 

DraeZ

Potential Star
Registered
Makkonnen said:
That's why you're fuckin ignorant. Go read something about places besides NC that have to deal with massive rates of non-english speaking illegal immigrant children and children of illegal immigrants. Try a state like Texas or California brainiac. Those states have a few more people than NC. :smh: You're pathetic. Why the fuck do you continue to argue regarding your personal feelings and experiences when you obviously don't know shit about the entirety of AMERICA. Either you're ignorant or a pathetic liar. In any case your pushing a position that's clearly bullshit.
You're a fuckin dumbass. The difference between getting a good education and a shitty one is resources. If an already limited supply of resources is further depleted then what happens? :smh: Public education is about federal dollars and local property taxes. Legal immigrants and citizens contribute while illegals don't.
Did I say all our problems are based on mexicans? No so stop trying to pretend that I did. Adding more problems to a fucked up situation is not gonna make fixing it any easier.


You have to throw insults around just to make your point?

The illegals here arent refusing to contribute, they arent able to contribute because of their immigration status.
Give the 11 million here legal status, so that they can contribute to the economy, this will pay for their education.
Thus the supply will increase so that the new demand does not further strain the system.

A lot of these 11 million people here have been here so long its like home to them, if they are shipped back to their country or over the border i guarantee at least half will try to get back.
The cost of finding all the 11million to ship them back and to beef up the boarders will be expensive. Instead of taking a loss, the country should take a gain, and make them pay for their status, like a $2,000 fee. 11million people paying $2,000 each... do the math.
 

DraeZ

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Registered
Cocoa said:
i say ship them mudfuckaz back to where there from, i dont care if there hatian or mexican...How are they going to break the law and sneak in THE United States, then expect to live here happy Ever after. :rolleyes: .There not Citizens and I think they should have NO rights... :rolleyes: If they don't want to follow the laws of our country and become a united states citizen by LAW, they have no business being here, but I have no problem with the LEGAL immigrants. :cool:

How do you propose they round up 11 million illegal immigrants and ship them back? They wont be easy nor cheap to round them all up. The system is fucked up, we just have to step over that and legalize these 11mil that are willing to work. Then secure borders, because its unrealistic to think you can ship 11-12 million people.

You just have to pick the lesser of two evils.
Choice 1: send them all back and still reinforce borders
Choice 2: Let them stay, , and then reinforce borders.

Choice 2 is a lot cheaper, since money will be comming in from the legalized illegal imigrants.
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
DraeZ said:
You have to throw insults around just to make your point?

The illegals here arent refusing to contribute, they arent able to contribute because of their immigration status.
Give the 11 million here legal status, so that they can contribute to the economy, this will pay for their education.
Thus the supply will increase so that the new demand does not further strain the system.

A lot of these 11 million people here have been here so long its like home to them, if they are shipped back to their country or over the border i guarantee at least half will try to get back.
The cost of finding all the 11million to ship them back and to beef up the boarders will be expensive. Instead of taking a loss, the country should take a gain, and make them pay for their status, like a $2,000 fee. 11million people paying $2,000 each... do the math.
Is "contribution" your measure of who is entitled to legal citizenship and who is not ??? The law doesn't seem to mention that as a criteria. Is there something wrong with the law ???

What about the numerous arguments throughout this thread against allowing 11 million illegals to simply be granted your brand of amnesty/citizenship ??? Is there no validity to them ???

QueEx
 

Makkonnen

The Quizatz Haderach
BGOL Investor
DraeZ said:
You have to throw insults around just to make your point?

The illegals here arent refusing to contribute, they arent able to contribute because of their immigration status.
Give the 11 million here legal status, so that they can contribute to the economy, this will pay for their education.
Thus the supply will increase so that the new demand does not further strain the system.

A lot of these 11 million people here have been here so long its like home to them, if they are shipped back to their country or over the border i guarantee at least half will try to get back.
The cost of finding all the 11million to ship them back and to beef up the boarders will be expensive. Instead of taking a loss, the country should take a gain, and make them pay for their status, like a $2,000 fee. 11million people paying $2,000 each... do the math.
mind your own business

If you think you have something valid to say go one by one and argue against my reasoning in every post I have made in this thread, otherwise I'm really not interested. GTFOH

There are 6 PAGES FULL of arguments and you think anyone is interested in your simplistic argument that is nothing but a rehash of something someone else stated when the thread started? :lol: Ohh I get it, your remix is better. :hmm:
 

DraeZ

Potential Star
Registered
QueEx said:
Is "contribution" your measure of who is entitled to legal citizenship and who is not ??? The law doesn't seem to mention that as a criteria. Is there something wrong with the law ???
QueEx

Well contribution is a requreiment for entry into the country. Before you get your passport and visa, they ask what are your reasons for travelling; most people say work. This means they will be making a contribution because of the taxes they pay from working.

If someone said to sell drugs and live off wellfare, they would not be allowed to come because they would not be making a contribution to the system.

QueEx said:
What about the numerous arguments throughout this thread against allowing 11 million illegals to simply be granted your brand of amnesty/citizenship ??? Is there no validity to them ???

You are right about it being unfair to just grant criminals amnesty, but it really is the best option. amensty has been done before so it really isnt that much of a stretch. Isnt this country based on precedent?
The way i see it, there are two options. If you have any other options feel free to mention them.

1. They can spend money trying to round up all the 11 million and send them back, i imagine they would have police officers walking around asking for papers, similar to the hitler's gestepa.

2.The country profit financially off fees to gain legal status, and the taxes paid once they are legal.
 
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DraeZ

Potential Star
Registered
Makkonnen said:
mind your own business

If you think you have something valid to say go one by one and argue against my reasoning in every post I have made in this thread, otherwise I'm really not interested. GTFOH

There are 6 PAGES FULL of arguments and you think anyone is interested in your simplistic argument that is nothing but a rehash of something someone else stated when the thread started? :lol: Ohh I get it, your remix is better. :hmm:

Im sorry Oh Great post guideline creater, let me avert my eyes as i type to you. :hmm:
I skimmed some pages and your argument caught my attention, i addressed your supply and demand problem, instead of complaining, comment on my answer.

and by the way the simplest answer is often the best, just like in math.
 

Brown Pride

Star
Registered
QueEx said:
Yeah, that is where things get really complicated and contradictory. Most of the "Reconquista" people aren't original as there are few original people left. I keep noting that the <u>leadership</U> of the "Illegal Movement" seems to have a lot of European influence - Vicente himself a prime example. That leadership doesn't seem to have roots as mgrant pickers. But hell, so long as they have a tinge of brown, they're people of color, regardless of their politics.

QueEx

Que keep you mouth shut,Mexico is 30% pure indegenous,60% mixed 9%Spanish and 1% other.What do you know about Mexicans,prolly the same things Whites Know about Blacks........don't open your mouth about Mexicans because you are not one.That's like White people talking about Black life............Your a joke.............Ban me again ..............and keep doinf=g this for Whitey ........ :dance: :dance: :dance: :smh:

Pinche simp............... :lol: :yes:
 

Makkonnen

The Quizatz Haderach
BGOL Investor
Brown Pride said:
Que keep you mouth shut,Mexico is 30% pure indegenous,60% mixed 9%Spanish and 1% other.What do you know about Mexicans,prolly the same things Whites Know about Blacks........don't open your mouth about Mexicans because you are not one.That's like White people talking about Black life............Your a joke.............Ban me again ..............and keep doinf=g this for Whitey ........ :dance: :dance: :dance: :smh:

Pinche simp............... :lol: :yes:
hey nacho libre!!!!!!!!!! thanks for coming back! youre great! especially the way you never talk about racist mexicans!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Dolemite

Star
Registered
some people should reread this entire thread and note who cannot provide evidence to back up their assertions
 

Brown Pride

Star
Registered
Dolemite said:
some people should reread this entire thread and note who cannot provide evidence to back up their assertions

wHORESON CALLATE LA VOCA.................. :dance: :dance: :dance: ALL YOU DO IS THIS FOR THEM CRACKKKAS YOU LOVE SO MUCH............. :dance: :dance: :dance: ..i KEEP ON DANCIN ,i KEEP ON DANCIN.......yOUR FAVORITE SONG IS ......i LOVE THEM CRACKKAS AND WILL KILL mEXICANS FOR THEM................U ignrant racist crackkka lovin dolemaricon.................. :dance: :dance: :dance:
 

Brown Pride

Star
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Dolemite said:
some people should reread this entire thread and note who cannot provide evidence to back up their assertions

Hey kingfish,why do u post in the same threads under two names,do you suffer from some sort of mental problem.And keep tossing out all them racial slurs.
 

Brown Pride

Star
Registered
Dolemite said:
some people should reread this entire thread and note who cannot provide evidence to back up their assertions

Hey kingfish,why do u post in the same threads under two names,do you suffer from some sort of mental problem.And keep tossing out all them racial slurs.Could it be your a racist?
 

Makkonnen

The Quizatz Haderach
BGOL Investor
Brown Pride said:
Hey kingfish,why do u post in the same threads under two names,do you suffer from some sort of mental problem.And keep tossing out all them racial slurs.Could it be your a racist?
why were we friends sending each other PMs and talking about unity until you came on the political board calling black men nig-er and other racial slurs?

answer that
 

Fuckallyall

Support BGOL
Registered
Interesting article from The Christian Science Monitor.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico
By John Dillin
WASHINGTON

George W. Bush isn't the first Republican president to face a full-blown immigration crisis on the US-Mexican border.

Fifty-three years ago, when newly elected Dwight Eisenhower moved into the White House, America's southern frontier was as porous as a spaghetti sieve. As many as 3 million illegal migrants had walked and waded northward over a period of several years for jobs in California, Arizona, Texas, and points beyond.

President Eisenhower cut off this illegal traffic. He did it quickly and decisively with only 1,075 United States Border Patrol agents - less than one-tenth of today's force. The operation is still highly praised among veterans of the Border Patrol.

Although there is little to no record of this operation in Ike's official papers, one piece of historic evidence indicates how he felt. In 1951, Ike wrote a letter to Sen. William Fulbright (D) of Arkansas. The senator had just proposed that a special commission be created by Congress to examine unethical conduct by government officials who accepted gifts and favors in exchange for special treatment of private individuals.

General Eisenhower, who was gearing up for his run for the presidency, said "Amen" to Senator Fulbright's proposal. He then quoted a report in The New York Times, highlighting one paragraph that said: "The rise in illegal border-crossing by Mexican 'wetbacks' to a current rate of more than 1,000,000 cases a year has been accompanied by a curious relaxation in ethical standards extending all the way from the farmer-exploiters of this contraband labor to the highest levels of the Federal Government."

Years later, the late Herbert Brownell Jr., Eisenhower's first attorney general, said in an interview with this writer that the president had a sense of urgency about illegal immigration when he took office.

America "was faced with a breakdown in law enforcement on a very large scale," Mr. Brownell said. "When I say large scale, I mean hundreds of thousands were coming in from Mexico [every year] without restraint."

Although an on-and-off guest-worker program for Mexicans was operating at the time, farmers and ranchers in the Southwest had become dependent on an additional low-cost, docile, illegal labor force of up to 3 million, mostly Mexican, laborers.

According to the Handbook of Texas Online, published by the University of Texas at Austin and the Texas State Historical Association, this illegal workforce had a severe impact on the wages of ordinary working Americans. The Handbook Online reports that a study by the President's Commission on Migratory Labor in Texas in 1950 found that cotton growers in the Rio Grande Valley, where most illegal aliens in Texas worked, paid wages that were "approximately half" the farm wages paid elsewhere in the state.

Profits from illegal labor led to the kind of corruption that apparently worried Eisenhower. Joseph White, a retired 21-year veteran of the Border Patrol, says that in the early 1950s, some senior US officials overseeing immigration enforcement "had friends among the ranchers," and agents "did not dare" arrest their illegal workers.

Walt Edwards, who joined the Border Patrol in 1951, tells a similar story. He says: "When we caught illegal aliens on farms and ranches, the farmer or rancher would often call and complain [to officials in El Paso]. And depending on how politically connected they were, there would be political intervention. That is how we got into this mess we are in now."

Bill Chambers, who worked for a combined 33 years for the Border Patrol and the then-called US Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), says politically powerful people are still fueling the flow of illegals.

During the 1950s, however, this "Good Old Boy" system changed under Eisenhower - if only for about 10 years.

In 1954, Ike appointed retired Gen. Joseph "Jumpin' Joe" Swing, a former West Point classmate and veteran of the 101st Airborne, as the new INS commissioner.

Influential politicians, including Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson (D) of Texas and Sen. Pat McCarran (D) of Nevada, favored open borders, and were dead set against strong border enforcement, Brownell said. But General Swing's close connections to the president shielded him - and the Border Patrol - from meddling by powerful political and corporate interests.

One of Swing's first decisive acts was to transfer certain entrenched immigration officials out of the border area to other regions of the country where their political connections with people such as Senator Johnson would have no effect.

Then on June 17, 1954, what was called "Operation Wetback" began. Because political resistance was lower in California and Arizona, the roundup of aliens began there. Some 750 agents swept northward through agricultural areas with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions a day. By the end of July, over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states. Another 488,000, fearing arrest, had fled the country.

By mid-July, the crackdown extended northward into Utah, Nevada, and Idaho, and eastward to Texas.

By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 illegals had left the Lone Star State voluntarily.

Unlike today, Mexicans caught in the roundup were not simply released at the border, where they could easily reenter the US. To discourage their return, Swing arranged for buses and trains to take many aliens deep within Mexico before being set free.

Tens of thousands more were put aboard two hired ships, the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried the aliens from Port Isabel, Texas, to Vera Cruz, Mexico, more than 500 miles south.

The sea voyage was "a rough trip, and they did not like it," says Don Coppock, who worked his way up from Border Patrolman in 1941 to eventually head the Border Patrol from 1960 to 1973.

Mr. Coppock says he "cannot understand why [President] Bush let [today's] problem get away from him as it has. I guess it was his compassionate conservatism, and trying to please [Mexican President] Vincente Fox."

There are now said to be 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens in the US. Of the Mexicans who live here, an estimated 85 percent are here illegally.

Border Patrol vets offer tips on curbing illegal immigration
One day in 1954, Border Patrol agent Walt Edwards picked up a newspaper in Big Spring, Texas, and saw some startling news. The government was launching an all-out drive to oust illegal aliens from the United States.

The orders came straight from the top, where the new president, Dwight Eisenhower, had put a former West Point classmate, Gen. Joseph Swing, in charge of immigration enforcement.

General Swing's fast-moving campaign soon secured America's borders - an accomplishment no other president has since equaled. Illegal migration had dropped 95 percent by the late 1950s.

Several retired Border Patrol agents who took part in the 1950s effort, including Mr. Edwards, say much of what Swing did could be repeated today.

"Some say we cannot send 12 million illegals now in the United States back where they came from. Of course we can!" Edwards says.

Donald Coppock, who headed the Patrol from 1960 to 1973, says that if Swing and Ike were still running immigration enforcement, "they'd be on top of this in a minute."

William Chambers, another '50s veteran, agrees. "They could do a pretty good job" sealing the border.

Edwards says: "When we start enforcing the law, these various businesses are, on their own, going to replace their [illegal] workforce with a legal workforce."

While Congress debates building a fence on the border, these veterans say other actions should have higher priority.

1. End the current practice of taking captured Mexican aliens to the border and releasing them. Instead, deport them deep into Mexico, where return to the US would be more costly.

2. Crack down hard on employers who hire illegals. Without jobs, the aliens won't come.

3. End "catch and release" for non-Mexican aliens. It is common for illegal migrants not from Mexico to be set free after their arrest if they promise to appear later before a judge. Few show up.

The Patrol veterans say enforcement could also be aided by a legalized guest- worker program that permits Mexicans to register in their country for temporary jobs in the US. Eisenhower's team ran such a program. It permitted up to 400,000 Mexicans a year to enter the US for various agriculture jobs that lasted for 12 to 52 weeks.
 

histick

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DraeZ said:
You have to throw insults around just to make your point?

The illegals here arent refusing to contribute, they arent able to contribute because of their immigration status.
Give the 11 million here legal status, so that they can contribute to the economy, this will pay for their education.
Thus the supply will increase so that the new demand does not further strain the system.

A lot of these 11 million people here have been here so long its like home to them, if they are shipped back to their country or over the border i guarantee at least half will try to get back.
The cost of finding all the 11million to ship them back and to beef up the boarders will be expensive. Instead of taking a loss, the country should take a gain, and make them pay for their status, like a $2,000 fee. 11million people paying $2,000 each... do the math.

That is a bad idea. That type of plan would only promote illegal immigration. Afterall, once an immigrant gets in, $2000 buys you citizenship. $2000 isn't that much really. Immigrants will pool money together to bring others across and it will be like a big pyramid scheme. With this scheme, everyone participating wins. Those that get shipped back DO try to come back. So pretty much a $5000 gamble with odds in your favor to illegally cross then legally stay. Yeah good job.

Personally, I don't think this is a Mexican immigration problem[although it is because of the shared border]. Immigration in itself is a problem and a benefit. Legal immigrants are documented and can be held accountable for crimes and must pay taxes. Illegal immigrants are not accountable for crimes and could give a fuck about taxes. I have yet to meet a legal immigrant who did not have desire to work and go to college. Illegal immigrants are a mixed bag. Personally I could care less if they want to work and go to school here. There is a process for that and it should be followed.

Mexican border hopping is a big problem but imagine the US sharing a border with Africa or say China. You will have lots of AIDS/HIV infected people coming from Africa. Most will be uneducated and poor. I'm sure people will be pissed about that statement but it is the TRUTH. I can't even begin to imagine the insane amount of Chinese that would try to border hop if China shared a border with the US. Most Chinese are poor and uneducated too.

I would like to see the borders locked down and would like to see all illegals booted out of the country regardless of race. They can learn English and apply for legal status. If that's too much for them, then fuck them.

Not trying to hate...just hate dealing with people who can't be found accountable for anything in a society where people already don't want to be held accountable.

:angry:
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
<font size="5"><center>4 Los Angeles Latino Gang Members Convicted
of Anti-Black Conspiracy</font size>

<font size="4">The jury finds that the defendants terrorized
African Americans to try to drive them from the neighborhood</font size></center>

Los Angeles Times
By Joe Mozingo, Times Staff Writer
August 2, 2006


Four members of a Latino gang in Highland Park were found guilty Tuesday of unleashing a barrage of assaults and killings to push African Americans out of the predominantly Latino community in northeast Los Angeles.

The verdicts in a downtown federal courtroom marked the first time a street gang had been convicted of breaking federal hate crime laws, traditionally employed against white supremacist groups like skinheads and the Ku Klux Klan.

"I'm glad the truth is out," said Luisa Prudhomme, whose 21-year-old son, Anthony, was killed when Avenues members allegedly kicked open his door and shot him in the head as he lay on a futon.

"This wasn't just regular gang activity as usual," she said. "This was hate crime. They promoted hatred and racism and ignorance."

The four defendants — Gilbert "Lucky" Saldana, 27; Alejandro "Bird" Martinez, 28; Fernando "Sneaky" Cazares, 25; and Porfirio "Dreamer" Avila, 31 — face life in prison without the possibility of parole for their roles in the conspiracy. Sentencing for the first three was set for Oct. 23; for Avila, the date is Nov. 20.

Defense attorneys did not return calls for comment Tuesday, but one of them said in a previous conversation that there were numerous grounds for appeal.

From the start, the defense argued that prosecutors Alex Bustamante and Bobbi Bernstein had stretched civil rights statutes and Reconstruction-era anti-slavery laws way beyond their intended purposes to bring the case under federal jurisdiction. The judge denied their motions to dismiss the indictment on this basis, but the arguments will surely come up again in appeals court.

The Avenues date back to the 1950s and get their name from the numbered avenues that traverse the hills and ravines of Highland Park. The defendants on trial were part of the Tiny Locos, younger members of a clique called Avenues 43.

The compendium of crimes laid out against the gang members blended the most chilling aspects of old-time Deep South bigotry with a modern interracial rancor that has developed — to some extent — in struggling pockets of urban Los Angeles.

But unlike other racial gang strife in the city, the Avenues' violence was deliberately aimed at African Americans with no gang affiliations, including women and children. The gang scrawled threats and racial epithets in graffiti on walls.

Among crimes committed by the defendants from 1995 to 2001, according to testimony, were shooting a 15-year-old boy riding a bike; hitting a jogger in the head with a pistol; drawing outlines of human bodies in chalk on a family's driveway, along with a racial slur; and knocking a woman off her bike, threatening her husband with a box cutter, and saying, "You ------s have been here long enough."

One night in April 1999, the defendants were riding in a van and came upon a black man, Kenneth Wilson, parking his Cadillac. When Martinez asked if anyone wanted to kill a black man, three of them jumped out, ran up to Wilson's windows and opened fire, witnesses said. A shot to the head killed him before the car had even rolled to a stop.

Saldana bragged later that he just wanted to test out his new 9-millimeter Ruger.

Another black man, Christopher Bowser, was harassed and beaten up by the defendants for years. In December 2000, he filed a police report saying Martinez had assaulted and robbed him at a bus stop near his house. A week later, Bowser was shot to death at the same bus stop on Figueroa Street.

Five days later, Avila told a fellow gang member, in a taped phone call from jail, that he and Martinez had been beating up mayates for weeks, using a Spanish-language epithet for blacks. After mentioning Bowser, he added, "That fool is gone." Avila was convicted in state court of the murder.

Throughout the nearly monthlong trial, defense attorneys tried to discredit the prosecutors' key witnesses — two imprisoned members of the Avenues who testified against their brethren — as well as two police officers who took the case to the FBI and U.S. attorney. The lawyers introduced black witnesses who said they had never had any problems in Highland Park.

And in a bid to show there was no gang policy of racism, they brought in two black women — the girlfriend of defendant Saldana when he lived in Arizona and the wife of an Avenues member who had nothing to do with the conspiracy and only vaguely knew the defendants.

As evidenced by the verdict, the jury did not buy the defense's line.

The defendants sat casually throughout the testimony, wearing shirts, ties, sweaters and reading glasses, hair neatly combed.

But prosecutors tarnished their junior executive image by displaying photos showing their hidden tattoos on a screen directly above their heads. Jurors studied the large chest tattoos of the gang's logo — a bullet-pierced skull wearing a fedora and a fur collar. More damaging: the slogan "43 Kills for Thrills" etched on Martinez's shaved head.

In her closing argument, Bernstein, a deputy chief in the civil rights division of the Justice Department, painted a picture of inhuman brutality, sometimes killing on a whim.

"These defendants and their co-conspirators riddled [Kenneth Wilson's] car with bullets and shot him through the carotid artery, and they sped away and left him to bleed to death in front of his nephew because he was black and he dared to park his car on their street," she said.

"These defendants and their co-conspirators tortured Christopher Bowser. They beat him and harassed him and chased him, and they warned him and threatened him and shot him in the face," Bernstein said.

"They left that man to die in the street like a dog because he was black and dared to live on Avenue 44.

"That's what this case is about."

The defense claimed that police had concocted the conspiracy by linking a bunch of random attacks — thus inflating common gang violence into a conspiracy against civil rights.

"This indictment was meant to grab headlines," said Manuel Araujo, representing Saldana, in his closing arguments. "It was based on a fiction."

The jury deliberated for two days.

Joe R. Hicks, vice president of the Los Angeles civil rights group Community Advocates, said the Highland Park racial violence was unique in the city. He said there have been deadly turf wars between black and Latino gangs in Venice and in the Harbor Gateway neighborhood, but never such violence targeting innocent people solely because of their race.

However, what happened in Highland Park stems from a broader racial tension in the city, he said. In some parts of Los Angeles, blacks feel Latinos are taking over their neighborhoods, displacing them to "the bottom of the market." Latinos, particularly immigrants, sometimes harbor anti-black prejudice that they or their parents carried over the border, he said. And these notions harden in high school, where racial fights are not uncommon, and become truly ominous in prison.

The old dynamic of a powerful white majority oppressing a black minority is way too simple, and increasingly obscure, these days, he said.

"You step back and ask: Can black folks be bigots? Can Latinos be bigots? It's clear that these gang members had an animus against blacks, Hicks said. "With the diversity of today's world, we have to look at racism in a more encompassing way."

The case started with LAPD officers who hit some obstacles in state court. They took their evidence to FBI agent Jerry Fradella and Assistant U.S. Atty. Thomas P. O'Brien, who brought in Bernstein to help them make the civil rights case.

In court papers, prosecutors said they had a witness who would testify that the Mexican Mafia, which controls many local Latino gangs, ordered the Avenues to carry out the attacks on African Americans. But the defense was ready to rip into that witness' credibility; ultimately, the government never brought him to the stand.

The question now is whether federal law enforcement has gained a powerful tool against gangs, particularly ones doing the bidding of race-based prison gangs.

O'Brien, who is now chief of the criminal division in Los Angeles, compared the civil rights laws with laws on narcotics, guns and racketeering that also help them prosecute gang members in the federal realm.

He said his office is looking at other cases "where gang members are assailing individuals due to their race."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-avenues2aug02,0,6797351.story?page=1
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
<font size="5"><center>Caucus lists steps for reform</font size>
<font size="4">Blacks' immigration ideas like Democrats'</font size></center>


By Mary M. Shaffrey
JOURNAL WASHINGTON BUREAU
Sunday, August 6, 2006

WASHINGTON - The Congressional Black Caucus has formally entered the debate on illegal immigration by outlining a series of steps needed to ensure immigration reform, according to a two-page document.

The "statement of principles" is broad and does not differ significantly from what Democrats and some Republicans have called for in reforms of immigration law.

"It's a consensus set of views," said Rep. Mel Watt, D-12th, the chairman of the 43-member CBC, who added that the group tried not to get too specific because of the diversity of opinions among the members.

Watt said that the group, which is made up entirely of Democrats, had been working on the document for several months, but was often sidetracked. It was finished shortly before the House of Representatives left for August recess.

The four main points of the document are:

? Increased funding for border security.

? A pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants, with a special emphasis on reunification of families and employment history.

? Greater economic opportunities as well as increased wages for legal workers.

? And greater emphasis on diversifying the pool of immigrants, such as increasing emigration opportunities for those from Africa and the Caribbean.

The black caucus does not recommend how to pay for any of the ideas or set a specific amount of time for how long an immigrant must have been in the country to be permitted a chance at citizenship.

Under the Senate immigration bill passed in May, a proposal supported by President Bush, an immigrant must have been in the U.S. for a minimum of two years to use the citizenship process. The House of Representatives passed its own immigration bill late last year, but it does not allow for any pathway to citizenship.

Both bills, however, have stalled, and many - including Watt - are not optimistic about immigration reform being passed before the elections in November.

"All of this to our Republican colleagues is a charade, I just don't think they want a bill," Watt said.

The majority of Republicans in the House of Representatives and Senate want a strict enforcement-only policy. House Republicans are holding a series of hearings across the country this month to gauge public support for their proposal, as opposed to the bill that passed in the Senate. Neither side, however, has shown a willingness to compromise because each expects to use it as a campaign issue in the fall.

Since the immigration debate began earlier this year, minority groups have been relatively quiet on the issue, and Watt acknowledged that there are divisions among black-caucus members.

"We decided we wanted to keep this pretty simple. If you go individual by individual, you will get a fair amount of different (opinions)," he said.

Ronald Walters, the director of the African-American Leadership Institute at the University of Maryland, said that blacks have to walk a fine line when advocating for certain rights for immigrants

"African-Americans should support immigrants' calls for human rights, but I don't think we can realistically support their citizenship (rights). That's a process they have to go through on their own," he said.

A study released earlier this month by the Journal of Politics, a publication of the Southern Political Science Association, said that relations between the two groups in the South are likely to be cool as an increasing number of immigrants, both legal and illegal, move to the region.

"Relations between black Americans and Latino immigrants are likely to be one of conflict rather than a joining together based on shared minority status in the South," concluded the report, which was written by several North Carolina academics.

According to U.S. Census figures released by the government on Friday, blacks make up about 22 percent of North Carolina's population.

By contrast, the Hispanic population is just over 6 percent.

Overall, North Carolina has the fastest-growing Hispanic population in the country. From 1990 to 2000, according to the census, the state had nearly a 500 percent increase in the number of Hispanic residents.

The number of black residents, however, has remained steady at 22 percent since the 1970s, according to the N.C. Rural Economic Development Center.

Watt said he believes that the two minorities can work together and that they do share similar interests.

One of the key aspects of the black-caucus platform, he said, is the need to increase economic opportunities and job training to legal workers so that there won't be unfair competition from illegal workers taking lower wages.

"We put a major emphasis on economic and educational training. If this is accomplished (for all legal workers) then the impact of (illegal workers) is minimized," he said.

• Mary M. Shaffrey can be reached in Washington at 202-662-7672 or at mshaffrey@wsjournal.com.

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/S...1149189832265&path=!localnews&s=1037645509099
 

Greed

Star
Registered
<a href="http://papers.nber.org/papers/w12518">Immigration and African-American Employment Opportunities: The Response of Wages, Employment, and Incarceration to Labor Supply Shocks</a></strong><br />by George J. Borjas, Jeffrey Grogger, Gordon H. Hanson</span></p><p><span style="font-family:arial;">The employment rate of black men, and particularly of low-skill black men, fell precipitously from 1960 to 2000. At the same time, the incarceration rate of black men rose markedly. This paper examines the relation between immigration and these trends in black employment and incarceration. Using data drawn from the 1960-2000 U.S. Censuses, we find a strong correlation between immigration, black wages, black employment rates, and black incarceration rates. As immigrants disproportionately increased the supply of workers in a particular skill group, the wage of black workers in that group fell, the employment rate declined, and the incarceration rate rose. Our analysis suggests that a 10-percent immigrant-induced increase in the supply of a particular skill group reduced the black wage by 3.6 percent, lowered the employment rate of black men by 2.4 percentage points, and increased the incarceration rate of blacks by almost a full percentage point.</span>
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
<font size="5"><center>A Racial Rift That Isnt Black and White</font size></center>


BY RACHEL L. SWARNS
NEW YORK TIMES
October 3, 2006

WILLACOOCHEE, Ga. The ministers close their eyes and raise their voices to the heavens and, for a moment, they are colorless. Two men who grew up desperately poor, who picked tobacco in the fields and hauled boxes at Wal-Mart and whose life journeys ultimately led them to the Lord and to each other.

Its like praying with a brother, said the Rev. Harvey Williams Jr., 54, who is black.

He looks out for me and I look out for him, said the Rev. Atanacio Gaona, 45, who is a Mexican immigrant. In the eyes of the Lord, there are no colors.

In this immigrant boomtown in Atkinson County, about 45 miles north of the Florida border, the ministers have forged a rare friendship that transcends the deep divide between blacks and Hispanics here.

For centuries, the South has been defined by the color line and the struggle for accommodation between blacks and whites. But the arrival of hundreds of thousands of Hispanic immigrants over the past decade is quietly changing the dynamics of race relations in many Southern towns.

The two pastors find that the fault lines that separate their communities sometimes test their friendship and challenge their efforts to bring blacks and Hispanics closer together.

Blacks here, who had settled into a familiar, if sometimes uneasy, relationship with whites, are now outnumbered by Hispanics. The two groups, who often live and work side by side, compete fiercely for working-class jobs and government resources. By several measures, blacks are already losing ground.

The jobless rate for black men in Georgia is nearly triple that of Hispanic men, labor statistics show. More blacks than Hispanics fail to meet minimum standards in Atkinson County public schools. And many blacks express anguish at being supplanted by immigrants who know little of their history and sometimes treat them with disdain as they fill factory jobs, buy property, open small businesses and scale the economic ladder.

If you have 10 factory openings, I would say Hispanics would get the majority of the jobs now, said Joyce Taylor, the Atkinson County clerk, who is black. And if you look at the little grocery stores, there are more Hispanic businesses than black businesses.

Its kind of scary, said Ms. Taylor, 44, whose daughter was laid off from a factory here. My children, looking forward, it may be harder for them.

Some Hispanics say African-Americans treat them with hostility and disparage them with slurs, even though blacks know the sting of racism all too well. They say many blacks are jealous of their progress and resent the fact that whites, who dominate the business sector, look increasingly to Hispanics to fill work forces. Blacks say employers favor immigrants because they work for less money.

An Area of Intense Feelings

The killing of six Mexican farm workers in a robbery last year in Tifton, about 30 miles away and the arrest of four black men in the case has heightened the friction. Nothing so violent has occurred here, but some Hispanics say black criminals focus on immigrants in this town, too.

Speaking of blacks, Benito González, 51, a Mexican who has worked alongside them at a poultry plant, said: They dont like to work, and theyre always in jail. If theres hard work to be done, the blacks, they leave and they dont come back. Thats why the bosses prefer Mexicans and why there are so many Mexicans working in the factories here.

Such images stoke the debate over how to overcome tensions, which flared nationally this year when some African-Americans expressed anger and unease as immigrant groups hailed efforts to legalize illegal immigrants as a new civil rights movement. Although the push in Congress to create a guest-worker program has stalled, concerns about competition between black and immigrant low-wage workers remain.

Those feelings resonate with particular intensity in the South, home to the nations largest share of African-Americans and its fastest-growing population of immigrants, according to an analysis of census data by William H. Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution.

The two Pentecostal ministers who pray together are men of faith who say they believe that blacks and Hispanics should be allies in the struggle to overcome discrimination and economic adversity, even though they acknowledge that interethnic unity is often hard to come by.

Mr. Williams, a thoughtful man who studied psychology in community college, ruminates in a weekly newspaper column on topics like spirituality, ethnic relations and his recovery from cocaine addiction 20 years ago.

Mr. Gaona, whose boyish looks belie his intensity, left school after second grade to help his father work the fields in Mexico. He entered the United States illegally and started picking tobacco here when he was 24. Over the past decade, he has received his citizenship and built his church from the ground up.

The two men met working on a Wal-Mart warehouse floor in neighboring Coffee County around 1993 when Mr. Gaona was starting to deepen his faith and Mr. Williams, already a pastor, was looking for a ride to work.

Neither expected much from the acquaintanceship.

Mr. Gaona, who said his perceptions of black Americans were shaped in Mexico by news reports of crime and violence in poor urban areas, recalled, I was thinking: Hes black. Who knows what he wants from me? I was just trying to keep my distance.

Mr. Williams said he never envisioned a friendship because he had never known blacks and Hispanics to be friends.

I think I probably saw him as being a Hispanic, he said, and I was only going to get so close.

Over the next five years, in their hourlong weekday commuting trip in Mr. Gaonas 1988 Oldsmobile and later in Mr. Williamss 1982 Ford station wagon, they discovered common ground. Both are divorced fathers. Mr. Williams has two sons and two daughters. Mr. Gaona has five boys.

Both grew up poor, working in the fields. And both were trying to advance at Wal-Mart and searching for pathways to God. It was Mr. Williams who helped persuade Mr. Gaona to quit Wal-Mart to open the first Spanish-language church in this town.

Today, the men are remarried, full-time ministers who chat by telephone and disregard the diners at local restaurants who still gawk at the sight of a black man and a Hispanic man eating together.

But they also remain painfully aware of the fear and prejudice that remain in their communities.

Mr. Williams, who leads a working- and middle-class congregation of teachers, Civil Service workers and factory workers at the Union Holiness House of Deliverance, shakes his head as he describes the jokes about Mexicans with poor hygiene that circulate among some black people he knows.

It was not so long ago that we were the object of jokes, Mr. Williams said. Im constantly having to remind people.

Mr. Gaona, whose flock at the Iglesia Alfa y Omega is dominated by factory and farm workers, says his members often describe American blacks as moyos, a derogatory Spanish term that sometimes refers to a black insect. He used the term, too, he admits, before he found God and his friend Mr. Williams.

Every now and then, I remind them that we need to respect people, no matter how they look or their color, Mr. Gaona said. "But mostly, we dont know them, and they dont know us. Theres no real communication going on.

Gaps and Similarities

The tension simmers just below the surface in the quiet communities of bungalows and trailers where the two churches are situated. Five years ago, these neighborhoods were overwhelmingly black. Today, Hispanics and blacks account for 21 percent and 19 percent of the county population of about 8,000, respectively.

Lyrical Spanish chatter competes with the sweet Georgia drawl as blacks and Hispanics share streets, assembly lines, classrooms and hardships that could prove to be the basis of community and political alliances. The two groups appear more likely to be poor than whites. About 36 percent of Hispanics and 31 percent of blacks live in poverty in Atkinson County, census data shows; 17 percent of whites are poor.

The two ethnic groups report experiencing some discrimination from non-Hispanic whites, who account for 60 percent of the population, and they view the blue-collar jobs in the factories that manufacture industrial fabrics and mobile homes as steppingstones to prosperity.

School administrators and sociologists suggest that the gap between blacks and Hispanics in employment and education may stem in part from immigrant parents who push their children harder to succeed in schools and the immigrant zeal to find work, regardless of how much it pays.

Many black adults, who typically have more formal education than new immigrants, seethe at the disparities. In a town where neighborliness is entrenched, blacks and Hispanics often treat one another warily.

It is hard to envision such tension in the ministers friendship, particularly as they laugh amid the wooden pews in Mr. Williamss church. But in many ways, they, too, keep their distance.

Despite more than 10 years friendship, the two have never dined in each others home. Their wives and children have never met, nor have their congregations.

Mr. Gaona does not know the black families who live near him. And he has never addressed Mr. Williamss congregation, even though his friend has invited him several times. The minister says he feels uncomfortable preaching in English.

Mr. Williams, who has spoken at his friends church twice, says there is more to it. (Mr. Gaonas English, after all, is quite good.)

Theres still a barrier there, Mr. Williams said.

He said the worshippers in Mr. Gaonas church seemed reluctant to mingle with him after his guest sermons there several years ago.

They are like standing on the side, you know, with their heads down as if waiting for me to leave, he recounted. Theyre uncomfortable. And thats one reason for not visiting him any more than I do.

Its one of my goals in life, to break down these nationality walls. But people are pretty divided. I just dont know if thats going to change.

Mr. Williams concedes that he, too, strives to do better. He does not know the name of the Hispanic family that lives near him. For a time, he refused to wave to Hispanic drivers on the road because they often hurt his feelings by ignoring him and the Southern tradition of greeting strangers. He has since decided to wave no matter what.

His wife, who did not grow up around immigrants, still feels a bit uncomfortable socializing with Hispanics, despite his long friendship with the Hispanic pastor.

A Shoulder to Lean On

Mr. Gaona said he was recently taken aback when his 5-year-old came home from school and described his black classmates as moyos, the aspersion.

Why you need to call them like that? Mr. Gaona said he asked his son. Im trying to share with him thats not right. But thats what he hears.

Still, on most days the two men put aside such awkwardness and focus on supporting each other.

When Mr. Gaonas computer became infected with a virus, he called Mr. Williams, who stopped by to help repair it. When state officials refused to renew his brothers driving license because his immigration papers were not in order, Mr. Gaona called Mr. Williams in frustration.

Mr. Williams relies on Mr. Gaona to interview Hispanic immigrants who ask to rent his churchs social hall for parties. And it was his respect for the Hispanic pastor that helped persuade him to use his newspaper column to chastise Americans who disparaged the newcomers.

I believe that rather than be angry or envy those who have came to America and found success, we ought to be learning from them, Mr. Williams wrote.

As the ministers meandered through their changing neighborhoods one afternoon, they considered taking their friendship to another level by preaching a joint service for their congregations. Though they knew it might never happen, they envisioned Spanish speakers and English speakers, newcomers and long timers holding hands and praying beneath the oak trees.

On that sultry summer afternoon, it felt good to dream about the possibility. Somehow, it felt like it just might be the start of something.

Well get together one day soon and do one out in the open, Mr. Gaona said.

Mr. Williams replied: That sounds good. That sounds good. Well do that.




Last modified: October 03. 2006 12:00AM

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