Floyd Mayweather comes off vacation to face Vicious Victor Ortiz for $40 mill

[merce77]

Oh yeah... I meant to ask you why you would have a problem with Bradley cause of his size. He has already moved up once and he also stated that he plans to move up to welter to get a fight with Pac or Floyd. Come on... Merce come over to the dark side and admit that his skill set/abilities are the determining factor not his size... If he was bigger and would you think he was a better option than Khan or Ortiz?

Nah, dude is like a rougher version of Steve Forbes, no disrespect to Stevie. And he looked pretty unimpressive at welterweight too. And remember I was screaming last year that dude could take over once Pac and Floyd are out the picture. Don't get me wrong, he has a style that could give some pretty good fighters some problems, but dude just has nothing special about him. He's not the best technical boxer in the world but he's pretty good, he doesn't have one punch ko power but he can stun you and wake your ass up with a punch. He's not extremely fast but he's pretty quick. Dude just seems like a lil better than above average. I think when he fights at that elite level, he will need more than that great will power he has, that might get him passed dudes like Alexander but against a guy like Pacquiao it would prolly get him ko'd and Floyd would do him like he was a black, bald version of Ricky Hatton. That ninja got impressive pop with his dome though.

Now if he could punch like a Maidana....whew. He'd be a fuckin problem.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Honestly i don't blame either fighter for this fight not happening, I've been saying, like others here on the board that the culprit is Arum. But I will blame either of them for not taking the best possible fight out there and lately that has been Manny. Everyone was screaming for Floyd to fight Mosley and he did that and walked away, Manny has been fighting guys like Clottey, Margarito and Mosley - guys coming off losses or shitty performances. That "I fight who my promoter puts in front of me" shit is getting real old and even the pro-Manny crowd isn't buying it anymore. At least he's fighting Marquez even if it is a few years and a couple weight classes late. I'd rather Floyd and Manny fought each other but I'm not mad at either choice of opponent.

Yep.

How'd I miss this one? So who would be the vampire in question? Maybe referee Vic DRACUlich would be a good choice? "In case of repeated fouls I'm gonna have to take a pint away guys."

I must be out of the co-sign crew

Just on probation. But I need to find out when you took my place as merce's tag team partner.

I still think Clottey took a dive....

I don't give a fuck what you think as long as you keep posting with that gif, I agree wholeheartedly.

Even if you said WILL instead of FEEL, I don't see what the problem is. It's all opinions anyway, right? Why even care? Should weathermen start saying they "feel" like it's going to rain? Everyone knows they could be wrong. It doesn't mean they don't know the science of what they're talking about. Last night I tried Four Loko for the first time with my wife and we fucked like maniacs on crack. I am convinced that there might be cocaine or something else in that drink. Why did John Ruiz retire? I don't know.

You know you're insane, right?

BUT, as barren as 147 is, right now who is as dangerous or more dangerous that Manny has fought? Manny's fought re-treads at 147, big names, that's it, with the exception of Cotto but even Cotto was damaged goods. At least Floyd is fighting a young up and comer. And even though most of us, myself probably the loudest, questioned Ortiz heart after the Maidana fight, he moved up, fought a bigger bona-fide puncher in Berto his last fight, got dropped, got up and did his thing. Look, we could argue all day about this but just remember that when Floyd came back and whupped Mosley's ass last year, NO ONE of consequence was screaming that Manny was the best at welter or even p4p. It's been a seesaw for a while. Manny fights, looks great, he's the best, Floyd fights, looks great, then they say he's the best. Whether he's fighting or not I don't think there's any question, in my mind at least, who's the better fighter. But everybody has their preference.

That was the moment I knew was coming and I wanted to see how he would respond and he was great. We all know Berto was vulnerable but he and Ortiz were made for each other and Ortiz won a hard tough fight against the welterweight champ.

Yeah, the best fighter has come down to who fought last between Pac and Mayweather. Personally, it's Martinez right now. And he needs to get that Chavez Jr money while it's there.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

BUT, as barren as 147 is, right now who is as dangerous or more dangerous that Manny has fought? Manny's fought re-treads at 147, big names, that's it, with the exception of Cotto but even Cotto was damaged goods. At least Floyd is fighting a young up and comer. And even though most of us, myself probably the loudest, questioned Ortiz heart after the Maidana fight, he moved up, fought a bigger bona-fide puncher in Berto his last fight, got dropped, got up and did his thing. Look, we could argue all day about this but just remember that when Floyd came back and whupped Mosley's ass last year, NO ONE of consequence was screaming that Manny was the best at welter or even p4p. It's been a seesaw for a while. Manny fights, looks great, he's the best, Floyd fights, looks great, then they say he's the best. Whether he's fighting or not I don't think there's any question, in my mind at least, who's the better fighter. But everybody has their preference.

I can't give PBF a pass. He has ever reason to make a fight with Manny. I mean who is giving Ortiz a chance to win on anything but a lucky punch? If that constitutes a good match up then nobody should complain about manny fights. PBF has no fought in a capacity to say he is the best. In every fight he has had a huge advantage over his 5 opponents. He only has one realistic fight that he isn't/ And that fight isn't being made. At least Oscar and GBP came to their senses and admitted they wronged Manny. Manny and PBF are not fighting until the defamation case is resolved. In the meantime sense PBF is overweight and most likely will come in overweight. He should have looked at Sergio for a mega fight. But that actually would have been hard. Because he doesn't have any built in advantages. So we are left with a guy who 2 months ago had no heart to be his next opponent. Crazy.

 

[Alaskanredman]

I can't give PBF a pass. He has ever reason to make a fight with Manny. I mean who is giving Ortiz a chance to win on anything but a lucky punch? If that constitutes a good match up then nobody should complain about manny fights. PBF has no fought in a capacity to say he is the best. In every fight he has had a huge advantage over his 5 opponents. He only has one realistic fight that he isn't/ And that fight isn't being made. At least Oscar and GBP came to their senses and admitted they wronged Manny. Manny and PBF are not fighting until the defamation case is resolved. In the meantime sense PBF is overweight and most likely will come in overweight. He should have looked at Sergio for a mega fight. But that actually would have been hard. Because he doesn't have any built in advantages. So we are left with a guy who 2 months ago had no heart to be his next opponent. Crazy.

I agree about Ortiz, but Manny has no reason to make the fight?

 

[will_right]

Yep.







Just on probation. But I need to find out when you took my place as merce's tag team partner.



Oh yeah i forgot then there's YOU the original tag team Champion

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I agree about Ortiz, but Manny has no reason to make the fight?

I am of the opinion until the defamation case is resolved Manny has no reason to fight PBF. It is PBF who needs manny. PBF needs to show the world he is better. That's my opinion though. If I were manny I wouldn't help make a guy rich who tried to destroy my name with accusations. Now once the case is settled then we would fight.

Glad I could make you laugh.

 

[will_right]

I am of the opinion until the defamation case is resolved Manny has no reason to fight PBF. It is PBF who needs manny. PBF needs to show the world he is better. That's my opinion though. If I were manny I wouldn't help make a guy rich who tried to destroy my name with accusations. Now once the case is settled then we would fight.

Glad I could make you laugh.

C/S What you say to ME makes perfect sense...but be warned others may feel your logic is weak.

 

[merce77]

I can't give PBF a pass. He has ever reason to make a fight with Manny. I mean who is giving Ortiz a chance to win on anything but a lucky punch? If that constitutes a good match up then nobody should complain about manny fights. PBF has no fought in a capacity to say he is the best. In every fight he has had a huge advantage over his 5 opponents. He only has one realistic fight that he isn't/ And that fight isn't being made. At least Oscar and GBP came to their senses and admitted they wronged Manny. Manny and PBF are not fighting until the defamation case is resolved. In the meantime sense PBF is overweight and most likely will come in overweight. He should have looked at Sergio for a mega fight. But that actually would have been hard. Because he doesn't have any built in advantages. So we are left with a guy who 2 months ago had no heart to be his next opponent. Crazy.

Wait your saying that PBF has no realistic advantages over Pacman, you just lost all credibility with this statement, because most every boxer or trainer they ask says that Floyd would beat Manny - this is ignored by the media for some reason and all we hear is that Floyd is scared. Floyd is a better boxer, better defensively, bigger, stronger - anyway Floyd is just a better all-around fighter and that's not opinion, that's
s fact to anyone that has any knowledge of boxing, you, Zef and Will Right can cape up for Manny all you want but you can't bring any legitimate arguments for Manny being a BETTER fighter than Floyd that don't sound ridiculous. Anyway this is moot, if anyone is deserving of the p4p right now it's Sergio who's been fighting real fighters and beating the mortal shit out of them, not retreads and guys that Floyd already beat a couple years ago. I've nothing more to say on this matter.

 

[P03t]

Idk, dude seems to proud for that shit, but $$$$ talks. I just think dude has that Ghanaian fighter syndrome. Hide behind the shell, and because the punches are being picked off by my gloves, they didn't land. Ike Quartey was the same way. I remember when Fernando Vargas boxed circles on that dude he swore he won. They seem to have that same type of style, them dudes from Ghana. Good boxers, but they don't do enough to win, Clottey is world class skill-wise though imo.

Pac was not hurting Clottey at all but his speed was good...and when Josh went on the offensive he look like his power was hurting Pac the few times he decided to fight....

I watched the fight over a few months ago and he would attack....Pac would retreat then all of sudden he would stop the offense....?????

and this was Pac's 1st fight at 147...I didn't get it....I thought he could have done more if he pushed the fight but he stayed in his shell and did nothing....

I know he probaby got some serious $$$$$ it was his biggest fight and dude was living in the BX no telling what he did with that loot....but he look like he took a dive....IMHO of course....

 

[will_right]

Wait your saying that PBF has no realistic advantages over Pacman, you just lost all credibility with this statement, because most every boxer or trainer they ask says that Floyd would beat Manny - this is ignored by the media for some reason and all we hear is that Floyd is scared. Floyd is a better boxer, better defensively, bigger, stronger - anyway Floyd is just a better all-around fighter and that's not opinion, that's
s fact to anyone that has any knowledge of boxing, you, Zef and Will Right can cape up for Manny all you want but you can't bring any legitimate arguments for Manny being a BETTER fighter than Floyd that don't sound ridiculous. Anyway this is moot, if anyone is deserving of the p4p right now it's Sergio who's been fighting real fighters and beating the mortal shit out of them, not retreads and guys that Floyd already beat a couple years ago. I've nothing more to say on this matter.

Calm down merce77 your emotions are starting to show

 

[TJervey]

I am of the opinion until the defamation case is resolved Manny has no reason to fight PBF. It is PBF who needs manny. PBF needs to show the world he is better. That's my opinion though. If I were manny I wouldn't help make a guy rich who tried to destroy my name with accusations. Now once the case is settled then we would fight.

Glad I could make you laugh.

In a sense I do agree with you, Floyd needs this more than Manny. I truly don't think Manny give a shit. Outside of Boxing, who has more going on? Who's after Boxing life seems more secure? Floyd, values himself as the best, GOAT, and all that bullshit, so it will really haunt him to never have the chance to prove it, and always have a segment of the boxing public believing Manny would have beat him. I think not fighting damages his legacy more than Manny's. Plus, like I said before, Manny truly doesn't give a damn I believe. After he's finished, he will be an old ass man, widely viewed as a damn national hero!!! With all of the money he is making, a career in congress... Who does this fight really matter to the most?!?!?! Once their careers are over, that 'He wouldn't take the test' shit will start to ring more and more hollow, and it's Floyd's mental which will be more fucked up by the doubt that he could beat Manny, than Manny's being fucked up the other way...

 

[P03t]

Wait your saying that PBF has no realistic advantages over Pacman, you just lost all credibility with this statement, because most every boxer or trainer they ask says that Floyd would beat Manny - this is ignored by the media for some reason and all we hear is that Floyd is scared. Floyd is a better boxer, better defensively, bigger, stronger - anyway Floyd is just a better all-around fighter and that's not opinion, that's
s fact to anyone that has any knowledge of boxing, you, Zef and Will Right can cape up for Manny all you want but you can't bring any legitimate arguments for Manny being a BETTER fighter than Floyd that don't sound ridiculous. Anyway this is moot, if anyone is deserving of the p4p right now it's Sergio who's been fighting real fighters and beating the mortal shit out of them, not retreads and guys that Floyd already beat a couple years ago. I've nothing more to say on this matter.

PREACH BRUH...!

I remember Teddy Atlas said PBF will beat Pac.....cats were acting like he said some blasphemous shit..."How dare you say Floyd will beat Pacman"....

the media hates Floyd with a passion so fans follow the same sentiment...

Micheal Wilbon calls Floyd a coward anytime PBF names comes up on PTI...its pretty annoying now....

I wonder when Wilbon and Floyd haters going to lace up some 16 oz gloves and step into the ring and do what Floyd has been doing since a child....

I always said Floyd will beat Manny he has the skill set....

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I can't give PBF a pass. He has ever reason to make a fight with Manny. I mean who is giving Ortiz a chance to win on anything but a lucky punch? If that constitutes a good match up then nobody should complain about manny fights. PBF has no fought in a capacity to say he is the best. In every fight he has had a huge advantage over his 5 opponents. He only has one realistic fight that he isn't/ And that fight isn't being made.

What welterweight of the last couple years doesn't he have an advantage on? People wanted to see him fight Shane Mosley and when the Pacquiao fight fell through, he pushed for it. Shane was far from his prime but he was coming off the Margarito demolition (and long layoff since Pacquiao refused to fight him) and was the top welterweight at the time. He had two major fights to make when he came back and he made one of them.

At least Oscar and GBP came to their senses and admitted they wronged Manny. Manny and PBF are not fighting until the defamation case is resolved. In the meantime sense PBF is overweight and most likely will come in overweight. He should have looked at Sergio for a mega fight. But that actually would have been hard. Because he doesn't have any built in advantages. So we are left with a guy who 2 months ago had no heart to be his next opponent. Crazy.

Where did you get that? Did he come in overweight for the Mosley fight? Has he ever come in overweight (not a catchweight but the 147 limit) for any fight?
I like Sergio. I think he's the best in the world but he's not a mega fight anymore than Ortiz and doesn't anymore name value than Victor.

Yep.







Just on probation. But I need to find out when you took my place as merce's tag team partner.



Oh yeah i forgot then there's YOU the original tag team Champion

See, at least someone respects positions around here.

I am of the opinion until the defamation case is resolved Manny has no reason to fight PBF. It is PBF who needs manny. PBF needs to show the world he is better. That's my opinion though. If I were manny I wouldn't help make a guy rich who tried to destroy my name with accusations. Now once the case is settled then we would fight.

Glad I could make you laugh.

Floyd Mayweather is first ballot HoF right now and was already while Manny was chopping up his leftovers in DLH and Hatton. We want the fight but he doesn't need the fight. Same for Manny at this point.

PREACH BRUH...!

I remember Teddy Atlas said PBF will beat Pac.....cats were acting like he said some blasphemous shit..."How dare you say Floyd will beat Pacman"....

the media hates Floyd with a passion so fans follow the same sentiment...

Micheal Wilbon calls Floyd a coward anytime PBF names comes up on PTI...its pretty annoying now....

I wonder when Wilbon and Floyd haters going to lace up some 16 oz gloves and step into the ring and do what Floyd has been doing since a child....

I always said Floyd will beat Manny he has the skill set....

I wonder what was the last non-Mayweather/Pacquiao fight Wilbon watched. These dudes who haven't watched boxing since Mike Tyson retired have no credibility.

Keep posting, P.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Wait your saying that PBF has no realistic advantages over Pacman, you just lost all credibility with this statement, because most every boxer or trainer they ask says that Floyd would beat Manny - this is ignored by the media for some reason and all we hear is that Floyd is scared. Floyd is a better boxer, better defensively, bigger, stronger - anyway Floyd is just a better all-around fighter and that's not opinion, that's
s fact to anyone that has any knowledge of boxing, you, Zef and Will Right can cape up for Manny all you want but you can't bring any legitimate arguments for Manny being a BETTER fighter than Floyd that don't sound ridiculous. Anyway this is moot, if anyone is deserving of the p4p right now it's Sergio who's been fighting real fighters and beating the mortal shit out of them, not retreads and guys that Floyd already beat a couple years ago. I've nothing more to say on this matter.

Exactly. Floyd has definite physical advantage over Manny too so I guess they shouldn't fight either.

 

[Zeferino]

Wait your saying that PBF has no realistic advantages over Pacman, you just lost all credibility with this statement, because most every boxer or trainer they ask says that Floyd would beat Manny - this is ignored by the media for some reason and all we hear is that Floyd is scared. Floyd is a better boxer, better defensively, bigger, stronger - anyway Floyd is just a better all-around fighter and that's not opinion, that's
s fact to anyone that has any knowledge of boxing, you, Zef and Will Right can cape up for Manny all you want but you can't bring any legitimate arguments for Manny being a BETTER fighter than Floyd that don't sound ridiculous. Anyway this is moot, if anyone is deserving of the p4p right now it's Sergio who's been fighting real fighters and beating the mortal shit out of them, not retreads and guys that Floyd already beat a couple years ago. I've nothing more to say on this matter.

Why you gotta bring me into this man? You just feel like going to war today or something? Just because you're on the Cosign Crew team doesn't mean everyone else has to be on some kind of team. I like being a loner. The lone wolf. It confirms my originality for me. Now you want to fuck it up and put me on a team. Anyway, back to boxing. I actually agree that Mayweather probably shaves all of his body hair and is also a better straight up "boxer" than Pacquiao. However, I think Pacquiao is the better "fighter" in the sense of the guy that is willing to get in your ass and pull out the victory. Whose legacy am I respecting more right now? Pacquiao's. Pacquiao's beaten more top ten welters than Mayweather has in probably half the time.

 

[merce77]

Calm down merce77 your emotions are starting to show

OK so here are some facts for your ass, 7 ways that Floyd is a better fighter and let's not forget that this boxing, not the UFC where dudes stand toe to toe and just swing wildly

Mayweather's straight/lead right is the best in the business, lead rights are a well known weapon against charging southpaws and I challenge anyone to name a fighter that has a better one - it's one of the reasons Marquez has looked great against Manny in the past. Marquez pretty much touched Manny at will with the counter and lead right and knocked him around pretty good when he landed it. Floyd is bigger, faster, stronger puncher than Marquez.

Floyd's jab and left hook are underused laser beams but best believe he will put them to good use against Manny, also Floyd's lead left hook is the punch that dropped Ricky Hatton while he was rushing in, let's not forget. Floyd also circles which will negate Manny's ability to come in from all types of angles - he's able to do that angles shit because all of his other opponents move straight back against him - even Marquez the 4 times he was dropped got caught 3 of those times while moving straight back.
Floyd will circle and we all know Manny's lack of geometric prowess when it comes to fighters who circle and Floyd will also change directions on him.

Floyd's precision punching is the best in the game, he doesn't throw as many punches as Manny but he's far more accurate. Let's take a 12 round fight against a common opponent. Floyd landed 44% against Mosley to Pacman's 31%. And I don't want to hear that Mosley ran shit because Floyd also had to move forward and make the fight against Mosley. Nothing stopped Pacman from cutting off the ring except......

Ring Generalship, Floyd is the best in the game, he can adapt to anything a fighter does in the ring, place his opponents where he wants them and make them do what he wants, he's proven this over and over again. Huge, relentless punchers like Corrales and Castillo(2nd fight) have been reduced to following him around and eating leather the whole fight while only landing in the single digits every round. Ring generalship and boxing IQ go to Floyd by a longshot. Whereas Manny couldn't figure out a great boxer like Marquez, Floyd, regardless of size, was by far the better boxer in the ring against Marquez.


Elusiveness, defense. Again, Floyd by a long shot. Poet made a point that Clottey landed only over 100 punches on Manny but Manny's entire head was bandaged up after that fight, he catches punches with his face. I won't even go into Floyd's defensive mastery as it is obvious and a fact and not a matter of FEELINGS.

Size and strength, again this goes to Floyd, height and reach advantages also go to Floyd.

Floyd's mental game, Manny seems like a pretty serene
(but not too bright) cat but I don't buy it. Floyd got under his skin with the racist video rant, the accusations of PED's and Roach was quoted as saying that Floyd's statement of "I will crush him" bothered Manny a great deal. This is not based on fact as it is mental and Manny doesn't really shit talk but it would be telling if Floyd could get him to do that or get him looking riled up or pissed at the press conference.


So we're left with footwork. I hate to keep repeating myself but Manny's vaunted unorthodox footwork was negated by a 40 year old has-been with no legs circling in the same direction almost the entire fight. Manny's footwork is great if he's moving forward or backward but his lateral movement is shit. By contrast Floyd footwork always keeps him in a position to block or slip punches or counterpunch. But I will give Manny that he seemingly can throw a power shot no matter how his feet are planted and that's rare.

So, it's my educated OPINION that anyone who says that Floyd has no clear advantages over Manny is just WRONG.

Oh and Will right you do realize that EMOTIcons are used to convey emotions right?

 

[Alaskanredman]

I am of the opinion until the defamation case is resolved Manny has no reason to fight PBF. It is PBF who needs manny. PBF needs to show the world he is better. That's my opinion though. If I were manny I wouldn't help make a guy rich who tried to destroy my name with accusations. Now once the case is settled then we would fight.

Glad I could make you laugh.

Come on son... They need each other.

Who is Manny fighting after Marquez... let me guess, Ortiz? Berto? Cotto II? There aren't many guys left with names, who are non-threats and are bigger fighters?

For the past two years people have been saying Floyd doesn't want to fight anymore and for the past 5 years I've been hearing that Floyd doesn't want any real challenges. Floyd is afraid of Manny. Floyd doesn't care about boxing or the fans... if all of this is true... why does he need Manny? He has the out that he wants according to many of you guys. He can argue that Manny was scared of the test and just fight other guys or retire.

 

[P03t]

I wonder what was the last non-Mayweather/Pacquiao fight Wilbon watched. These dudes who haven't watched boxing since Mike Tyson retired have no credibility.

Keep posting, P.

fam...its crazy how they hang on Tysons nuts yrs after he retired....Boxing has moved on....these clowns wish they could do 1/2 the shit Floyd has accomplished....how many yrs consecutively has PBF been top 5/10 P4P....

some of the hate towards Floyd and Boxing in general is really ridiculous...I can understand a casual saying some dumb shit like "Boxing is Dead" "Floyd is corny all he do is run"....but its really crazy when sports analyst says the same nonsense.....

 

[merce77]

Why you gotta bring me into this man? You just feel like going to war today or something? Just because you're on the Cosign Crew team doesn't mean everyone else has to be on some kind of team. I like being a loner. The lone wolf. It confirms my originality for me. Now you want to fuck it up and put me on a team. Anyway, back to boxing. I actually agree that Mayweather probably shaves all of his body hair and is also a better straight up "boxer" than Pacquiao. However, I think Pacquiao is the better "fighter" in the sense of the guy that is willing to get in your ass and pull out the victory. Whose legacy am I respecting more right now? Pacquiao's. Pacquiao's beaten more top ten welters than Mayweather has in probably half the time.

Alright Zef, alright...with your crazy ass. I ain't got no beef with you brother. But I don't agree about this legacy crap. When all the Manny hoopla dies down people will bring up the fact that most of his opponents were coming off losses or were past their best or just Floyd's leftovers from a couple years back. It's already starting to happen and he's not even finsihed yet, it's why they were forced to choose between the lesser of two evils between Mayweather and Marquez, they chose the smaller, older guy.

 

[P03t]

OK so here are some facts for your ass, 7 ways that Floyd is a better fighter and let's not forget that this boxing, not the UFC where dudes stand toe to toe and just swing wildly

Mayweather's straight/lead right is the best in the business, lead rights are a well known weapon against charging southpaws and I challenge anyone to name a fighter that has a better one - it's one of the reasons Marquez has looked great against Manny in the past. Marquez pretty much touched Manny at will with the counter and lead right and knocked him around pretty good when he landed it. Floyd is bigger, faster, stronger puncher than Marquez.

Floyd's jab and left hook are underused laser beams but best believe he will put them to good use against Manny, also Floyd's lead left hook is the punch that dropped Ricky Hatton while he was rushing in, let's not forget. Floyd also circles which will negate Manny's ability to come in from all types of angles - he's able to do that angles shit because all of his other opponents move straight back against him - even Marquez the 4 times he was dropped got caught 3 of those times while moving straight back.
Floyd will circle and we all know Manny's lack of geometric prowess when it comes to fighters who circle and Floyd will also change directions on him.

Floyd's precision punching is the best in the game, he doesn't throw as many punches as Manny but he's far more accurate. Let's take a 12 round fight against a common opponent. Floyd landed 44% against Mosley to Pacman's 31%. And I don't want to hear that Mosley ran shit because Floyd also had to move forward and make the fight against Mosley. Nothing stopped Pacman from cutting off the ring except......

Ring Generalship, Floyd is the best in the game, he can adapt to anything a fighter does in the ring, place his opponents where he wants them and make them do what he wants, he's proven this over and over again. Huge, relentless punchers like Corrales and Castillo(2nd fight) have been reduced to following him around and eating leather the whole fight while only landing in the single digits every round. Ring generalship and boxing IQ go to Floyd by a longshot. Whereas Manny couldn't figure out a great boxer like Marquez, Floyd, regardless of size, was by far the better boxer in the ring against Marquez.


Elusiveness, defense. Again, Floyd by a long shot. Poet made a point that Clottey landed only over 100 punches on Manny but Manny's entire head was bandaged up after that fight, he catches punches with his face. I won't even go into Floyd's defensive mastery as it is obvious and a fact and not a matter of FEELINGS.

Size and strength, again this goes to Floyd, height and reach advantages also go to Floyd.

Floyd's mental game, Manny seems like a pretty serene
(but not too bright) cat but I don't buy it. Floyd got under his skin with the racist video rant, the accusations of PED's and Roach was quoted as saying that Floyd's statement of "I will crush him" bothered Manny a great deal. This is not based on fact as it is mental and Manny doesn't really shit talk but it would be telling if Floyd could get him to do that or get him looking riled up or pissed at the press conference.


So we're left with footwork. I hate to keep repeating myself but Manny's vaunted unorthodox footwork was negated by a 40 year old has-been with no legs circling in the same direction almost the entire fight. Manny's footwork is great if he's moving forward or backward but his lateral movement is shit. By contrast Floyd footwork always keeps him in a position to block or slip punches or counterpunch. But I will give Manny that he seemingly can throw a power shot no matter how his feet are planted and that's rare.

So, it's my educated OPINION that anyone who says that Floyd has no clear advantages over Manny is just WRONG.

Oh and Will right you do realize that EMOTIcons are used to convey emotions right?

Floyds Ring Generalship is amazing to watch very underrated....he will shut you down control that pace and where/when the fight takes place....you are finished after that...be ready for a long night of straight rights ....ask Shane, JMM, Zab, Baldo etc....

 

[merce77]

Nobody's mentioning the game Floyd played on Pacman though. Weeks ago, before the Mosley/Pac fight, there were rumors that Floyd was coming back to fight Ortiz, nobody knew for sure. And I mean practically the day after the fight, Manny's team surprisingly announced they were gonna fight MArquez. Now since when have they ever announced Pac's next official opponent, contract negotiations and all immediately after a fight? They didn't even wait to see if Floyd was really coming back, if the fight had already been set with Ortiz, if there was a possibility of making the fight with Floyd next - they went straight for Marquez.
Arum nipped that in the bud real quick before Floyd announced his official return.

 

[Zeferino]

Alright Zef, alright...with your crazy ass. I ain't got no beef with you brother. But I don't agree about this legacy crap. When all the Manny hoopla dies down people will bring up the fact that most of his opponents were coming off losses or were past their best or just Floyd's leftovers from a couple years back.

Usually, when the hoopla dies and guys retire, their legends actually grow. There will always be some hardcore fans and historians that will look deep into a guys resume and fine dubious competition. The same can be said for 99% of most legendary fighters. Joe Louis fought mostly corny weak white guys and even got embarrassingly knocked out by Schmeling. However, his legend is ridiculously off the charts and most lists have him 1 or 2 all time at heavyweight. Marciano fought a bunch of old has beens and his legend is sick as well.

We can go on and on with this. Manny and Pac have generally done well regarding the circumstances and the available competition of the day. Mayweather started on the right foot but ever since he stepped into welterweight several years ago, he greatly reduced his activity as a boxer. Pac has generally faced the best opposition not named Mayweather available to him at welterweight. What more could one ask for if Mayweather is not available in their own weight class? Ortiz just became relevant and of course Mayweather waited until Pac had another fight signed to choose to fight Ortiz. This order of events seems to be the norm lately. Anyway, Mayweather and Pac will both go down as legends. Even Arturo Gatti is a legend.

 

[merce77]

Floyds Ring Generalship is amazing to watch very underrated....he will shut you down control that pace and where/when the fight takes place....you are finished after that...be ready for a long night of straight rights ....ask Shane, JMM, Zab, Baldo etc....

One of the best ever.

 

[merce77]

Usually, when the hoopla dies and guys retire, their legends actually grow. There will always be some hardcore fans and historians that will look deep into a guys resume and fine dubious competition. The same can be said for 99% of most legendary fighters. Joe Louis fought mostly corny weak white guys and even got embarrassingly knocked out by Schmeling. However, his legend is ridiculously off the charts and most lists have him 1 or 2 all time at heavyweight. Marciano fought a bunch of old has beens and his legend is sick as well.

We can go on and on with this. Manny and Pac have generally done well regarding the circumstances and the available competition of the day. Mayweather started on the right foot but ever since he stepped into welterweight several years ago, he greatly reduced his activity as a boxer. Pac has generally faced the best opposition not named Mayweather available to him at welterweight. What more could one ask for if Mayweather is not available in their own weight class? Ortiz just became relevant and of course Mayweather waited until Pac had another fight signed to choose to fight Ortiz. This order of events seems to be the norm lately. Anyway, Mayweather and Pac will both go down as legends. Even Arturo Gatti is a legend.

Wrong, read my previous post, then go back and check the date of the thread weeks ago when the Ortiz/Mayweather rumors started, you have it backwards.

 

[Zeferino]

Nobody's mentioning the game Floyd played on Pacman though. Weeks ago, before the Mosley/Pac fight, there were rumors that Floyd was coming back to fight Ortiz, nobody knew for sure. And I mean practically the day after the fight, Manny's team surprisingly announced they were gonna fight MArquez. Now since when have they ever announced Pac's next official opponent, contract negotiations and all immediately after a fight? They didn't even wait to see if Floyd was really coming back, if the fight had already been set with Ortiz, if there was a possibility of making the fight with Pacquiao next - they went straight for Marquez.
Arum nipped that in the bud real quick before Floyd announced his official return.

All that depends on who you believe. Before any fight was signed by either party there were reports of $65 million dollars being offered to Floyd to face Pac and it was reported that Mayweather refused it. Is this true, I have no idea. A well known trainer in Philly said on the Boxingtalk website today that he was told off the record by credible people close to Mayweather that the fight with Pac hasn't come off simply because Mayweather didn't want to fight Pac. That would seem like the most obvious reason. It's not like Mayweather has been a very active fighter at all recently.

 

[Zeferino]

Wrong, read my previous post, then go back and check the date of the thread weeks ago when the Ortiz/Mayweather rumors started, you have it backwards.

How's it backwards? Didn't Pac sign to fight Marquez first only to be followed by Mayweather's signing just yesterday? Sure the rumors started earlier but nothing was finalized until yesterday. There were even rumors that May would fight Spadafora so the rumors don't even really mean anything.

 

[merce77]

How's it backwards? Didn't Pac sign to fight Marquez first only to be followed by Mayweather's signing just yesterday?

On the sixth of May before the fight with Mosley it was announced that Floyd was coming back to fight probably Ortiz - it was made official yesterday. Ortiz being Floyd's next opponent has been on Boxrec over a month now. The next day after the Mosley fight it was announced that Manny's next fight would be Marquez, officially. When have they ever announced Manny's next official opponent so quickly? They heard Floyd was coming back and blocked that fight being made by agreeing to the Marquez fight is the logical explanation. Again this conjecture but it seems fishy.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/chrono/29086665

May 5, 2011 2:24 pm

quote by another poster on CBSSPORTS
"Looks like Ortiz is Mayweathers next opponent. Although, most want to see Pacman Vs. Mayweather, is there any issues with Ortiz? I don't have an issue with it. If this is the truth, and pacman is fighting Marquez again. True boxing fans have to to be honest. Bob Arum don't want that fight. All Pacman has to do is take the test. All this BS about Mayweather only fighting one fight. Why fight more then one fight when you fight the top contenders and still gross more money & PPV then an opponent that won't prove he's not on drugs."

 

[P03t]

Usually, when the hoopla dies and guys retire, their legends actually grow. There will always be some hardcore fans and historians that will look deep into a guys resume and fine dubious competition. The same can be said for 99% of most legendary fighters. Joe Louis fought mostly corny weak white guys and even got embarrassingly knocked out by Schmeling. However, his legend is ridiculously off the charts and most lists have him 1 or 2 all time at heavyweight. Marciano fought a bunch of old has beens and his legend is sick as well.

We can go on and on with this. Manny and Pac have generally done well regarding the circumstances and the available competition of the day. Mayweather started on the right foot but ever since he stepped into welterweight several years ago, he greatly reduced his activity as a boxer. Pac has generally faced the best opposition not named Mayweather available to him at welterweight. What more could one ask for if Mayweather is not available in their own weight class? Ortiz just became relevant and of course Mayweather waited until Pac had another fight signed to choose to fight Ortiz. This order of events seems to be the norm lately. Anyway, Mayweather and Pac will both go down as legends. Even Arturo Gatti is a legend.

Marg, Clottey, Mosley best opposition?

with weight stipulations?

dude took Cotto's 147 belt under 147....

wanted to do the same with Martinez wanted him to shrink down to nothing to grab another belt with his catch weight B/S...

no hate Zef....

I like both fighters...I just hate the bias shit towards both fighters...got them saying he was better than Hammering Henry Armstrong who fought in an age with only 8 weight classes!....and was a 3 weight class champ FW, LW, WW and almost grabbed the MW title too!

and was a force no advantages like team Pac always desires....

its a joke how they downplay the technical talent of one man but praise the other man like he's the greatest of all time....

 

[Zeferino]

On the sixth of May before the fight with Mosley it was announced that Floyd was coming back to fight probably Ortiz - it was made official yesterday. Ortiz being Floyd's next opponent has been on Boxrec over a month now. The next day after the Mosley fight it was announced that Manny's next fight would be Marquez, officially. When have they ever announced Manny's next official opponent so quickly? They heard Floyd was coming back and blocked that fight being made by agreeing to the Marquez fight is the logical explanation.

haha. This whole situation is crazy. So damn. What kind of game is this? Is it even a game? It looks like they just chose to fight different people and not each other, as usual. What fight was Pacquiao trying to block if Mayweather said he was coming back against someone else anyway?

 

[Zeferino]

Marg, Clottey, Mosley best opposition?

with weight stipulations?

dude took Cotto's 147 belt under 147....

wanted to do the same with Martinez wanted him to shrink down to nothing to grab another belt with his catch weight B/S...

no hate Zef....

I like both fighters...I just hate the bias shit towards both fighters...got them saying he was better than Hammering Henry Armstrong who fought in an age with only 8 weight classes!....

and was a force no advantages like team Pac always desires....

its a joke how they downplay the technical talent of one man but praise the other man like he's the greatest of all time....

Yeah, some people compare Pacquiao to Armstrong but at least Pac's not doing it himself. Mayweather himself straight up said he was better than Leonard and I can't remember if he mentioned Ali and Robinson as well. I think that was actually more offensive than someone comparing Pac to Armstrong.

Also, yes, Pac has fought the best and most reasonable opposition at welterweight not named Mayweather. Not being biased, right? Then if we're going to use the whole catchweight thing to penalize Pac, then we have to penalize Hopkins heavily, De La Hoya, and even Mayweather himself.

 

[P03t]

Yeah, some people compare Pacquiao to Armstrong but at least Pac's not doing it himself. Mayweather himself straight up said he was better than Leonard and I can't remember if he mentioned Ali and Robinson as well. I think that was actually more offensive than someone comparing Pac to Armstrong.

Also, yes, Pac has fought the best and most reasonable opposition at welterweight not named Mayweather. Not being biased, right? Then if we're going to use the whole catchweight thing to penalize Pac, then we have to penalize Hopkins heavily, De La Hoya, and even Mayweather himself.

how many titles did B-Hop snatch up with catchweight stipulation?

the catch weight with DLH was DLH decision because Hopkins was a bigger fighter....DLH was MW champ...B-Hop was Super MW champ....DLH wanted another belt in another weight class and underestimated the genius of Bernard and got KO'ed by a body shot....

B-Hop took DLH's strap and later lost it to Taylor....

and Mayweather's last catchweight fight was against JMM who is going to be blown up against Pac who can make 140 but doesn't want to he wants an advantage.....

I doubt May can make 140 now like PAC can...hell Pac is eating a ton of food to make 147 and complains about it....

May gave up those 2 lbs and $$$$$ because he didn't want to lose speed draining his body to make weight against JMM.....

 

[will_right]

OK so here are some facts for your ass, 7 ways that Floyd is a better fighter and let's not forget that this boxing, not the UFC where dudes stand toe to toe and just swing wildly

Mayweather's straight/lead right is the best in the business, lead rights are a well known weapon against charging southpaws and I challenge anyone to name a fighter that has a better one - it's one of the reasons Marquez has looked great against Manny in the past. Marquez pretty much touched Manny at will with the counter and lead right and knocked him around pretty good when he landed it. Floyd is bigger, faster, stronger puncher than Marquez.

Floyd's jab and left hook are underused laser beams but best believe he will put them to good use against Manny, also Floyd's lead left hook is the punch that dropped Ricky Hatton while he was rushing in, let's not forget. Floyd also circles which will negate Manny's ability to come in from all types of angles - he's able to do that angles shit because all of his other opponents move straight back against him - even Marquez the 4 times he was dropped got caught 3 of those times while moving straight back.
Floyd will circle and we all know Manny's lack of geometric prowess when it comes to fighters who circle and Floyd will also change directions on him.

Floyd's precision punching is the best in the game, he doesn't throw as many punches as Manny but he's far more accurate. Let's take a 12 round fight against a common opponent. Floyd landed 44% against Mosley to Pacman's 31%. And I don't want to hear that Mosley ran shit because Floyd also had to move forward and make the fight against Mosley. Nothing stopped Pacman from cutting off the ring except......

Ring Generalship, Floyd is the best in the game, he can adapt to anything a fighter does in the ring, place his opponents where he wants them and make them do what he wants, he's proven this over and over again. Huge, relentless punchers like Corrales and Castillo(2nd fight) have been reduced to following him around and eating leather the whole fight while only landing in the single digits every round. Ring generalship and boxing IQ go to Floyd by a longshot. Whereas Manny couldn't figure out a great boxer like Marquez, Floyd, regardless of size, was by far the better boxer in the ring against Marquez.


Elusiveness, defense. Again, Floyd by a long shot. Poet made a point that Clottey landed only over 100 punches on Manny but Manny's entire head was bandaged up after that fight, he catches punches with his face. I won't even go into Floyd's defensive mastery as it is obvious and a fact and not a matter of FEELINGS.

Size and strength, again this goes to Floyd, height and reach advantages also go to Floyd.

Floyd's mental game, Manny seems like a pretty serene
(but not too bright) cat but I don't buy it. Floyd got under his skin with the racist video rant, the accusations of PED's and Roach was quoted as saying that Floyd's statement of "I will crush him" bothered Manny a great deal. This is not based on fact as it is mental and Manny doesn't really shit talk but it would be telling if Floyd could get him to do that or get him looking riled up or pissed at the press conference.


So we're left with footwork. I hate to keep repeating myself but Manny's vaunted unorthodox footwork was negated by a 40 year old has-been with no legs circling in the same direction almost the entire fight. Manny's footwork is great if he's moving forward or backward but his lateral movement is shit. By contrast Floyd footwork always keeps him in a position to block or slip punches or counterpunch. But I will give Manny that he seemingly can throw a power shot no matter how his feet are planted and that's rare.

So, it's my educated OPINION that anyone who says that Floyd has no clear advantages over Manny is just WRONG.

Oh and Will right you do realize that EMOTIcons are used to convey emotions right?

Yeah i realize EMOTIcons as you so put it are used for such..but do YOU realize that people like Alaskanredman and upgrade Dave use them more than just about ANY poster in this thread?

 

[Zeferino]

how many titles did B-Hop snatch up with catchweight stipulation?

the catch weight with DLH was DLH decision because Hopkins was a bigger fighter....DLH was MW champ...B-Hop was Super MW champ....DLH wanted another belt in another weight class and underestimated the genius of Bernard and got KO'ed by a body shot....

B-Hop took DLH's strap and later lost it to Taylor....

and Mayweather's last catchweight fight was against JMM who is going to be blown up against Pac who can make 140 but doesn't want to he wants an advantage.....

I doubt May can make 140 now like PAC can...hell Pac is eating a ton of food to make 147 and complains about it....

May gave up those 2 lbs and $$$$$ because he didn't want to lose speed draining his body to make weight against JMM.....

Catchweight fights can benefit both fighters in different ways. Hopkins definitely benefitted from the catchweight fight with Oscar because he got to fight a smaller man legitimately just like when Terry Norris fought Meldrick Taylor at a catchweight. Norris made the catch weight but still looked huge and powerful against Taylor. Watch that fight and tell me if you think Norris was drained from having to come down 5 pounds to meet Taylor. Cotto had to weigh just one pound less than he did in his previous fight and off that many assume he was weight drained although there was absolutely no sign of that.

Whether the catchweight is beneficial all depends on the fighter and how they deal with whatever weight is going to be fought at. That's why I don't believe that a catchweight fight instantly means somebody had to come in weight drained or something like that. Margarito and Cotto looked physically as strong as ever in their fights with Pac but just got their asses beat.

Bernard Hopkins vs Kelly Pavlik @ 170lbs CatchWeight 2008.
Bernard Hopkins vs Winky Wright @ 170lbs CatchWeight 2007
Bernard Hopkins vs Oscar Dela Hoya @ 156lbs CatchWeight 2004 -For Oscar's WBO Middleweight Title
Bernard Hopkins vs John David Jackson @ 156lbs CatchWeight 1997

To answer your question, Pac won two titles in catchweight fights. The fights against Cotto and Margarito. Hopkins won one in a catchweight. Not much of a difference to me.

 

[P03t]

Catchweight fights can benefit both fighters in different ways. Hopkins definitely benefitted from the catchweight fight with Oscar because he got to fight a smaller man legitimately just like when Terry Norris fought Meldrick Taylor at a catchweight. Norris made the catch weight but still looked huge and powerful against Taylor. Watch that fight and tell me if you think Norris was drained from having to come down 5 pounds to meet Taylor. Cotto had to weigh just one pound less than he did in his previous fight and off that many assume he was weight drained although there was absolutely no sign of that.

Whether the catch weight is beneficial all depends on the fighter and how they deal with whatever weight is going to be fought at. That's why I don't believe that a catch weight fight instantly means somebody had to come in weight drained or something like that. Margarito and Cotto looked physically as strong as ever in their fights with Pac but just got their asses beat.

Bernard Hopkins vs Kelly Pavlik @ 170lbs CatchWeight 2008.
Bernard Hopkins vs Winky Wright @ 170lbs CatchWeight 2007
Bernard Hopkins vs Oscar Dela Hoya @ 156lbs CatchWeight 2004 -For Oscar's WBO Middleweight Title
Bernard Hopkins vs John David Jackson @ 156lbs CatchWeight 1997

To answer your question, Pac won two titles in catchweight fights. The fights against Cotto and Margarito. Hopkins won one in a catchweight. Not much of a difference to me.

'97 for real Zef ...and it was DLH who wanted the catchwieght and he put his belt on the line as well...so did B-Hop...DLH wanted the Super MW belt...he requested the Catchweight not the other way around...plz don't let me upload vidz

next how many belts did Hopkins get with a catchweight stipulation I'm waiting......next Pac can make 140 against JMM but doesn't want too....for an advantage...

he won 2 straps with catch weights and continues to use catchweight stipulation in every fight...he wanted to use that B/S against Martinez but his camp decided it was too much of a risk...now JMM is going to have to blow up for this fight....

catchweight King....Floyd will fight him at 54 will Pac ask for another advantage?

 

[Zeferino]

'97 for real Zef ...and it was DLH who wanted the catchwieght and he put his belt on the line as well...so did B-Hop...DLH wanted the Super MW belt...he requested the Catchweight not the other way around...plz don't let me upload vidz

next how many belts did Hopkins get with a catchweight stipulation I'm waiting......next Pac can make 140 against JMM but doesn't want too....for an advantage...

he won 2 straps with catch weights and continues to use catchweight stipulation in every fight...he wanted to use that B/S against Martinez but his camp decided it was too much of a risk...now JMM is going to have to blow up for this fight....

catchweight King....Floyd will fight him at 54 will Pac ask for another advantage?

In reality, it doesn't matter who requests it or even if a belt is in play as in Hopkins' fights with Pavlik and Wright. Whether Hopkins requested a catchweight or not, he did benefit because he got to legitimately fight a smaller man and unify the middleweight titles. To answer your question, Hopkins won the WBO title in catchweight bout with DLH. After that, he continued to fight catchweight bouts against the aforementioned Wright and Pavlik.


You mention Martinez not wanting to cede to a catchweight fight against Pac but did you know that Martinez's last fight with Paul Williams was at a catchweight? I'm just saying, you said you weren't biased so let's look at the whole picture and what everybody is doing.