See, now I'm fucked up. I meant to say "He's not a volume puncher". Now it makes more sense.
Edwin Valero Commits Suicide!!!!!
- Thread starter TJervey
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See, now I'm fucked up. I meant to say "He's not a volume puncher". Now it makes more sense.
Ya'll some disrespectful mufuccas.
Agreed. But it would be kinda questionable to me if he dominates Shane because I could never see him dominating a young Shane and 39 is still 39. But no matter what, Shane is still fighting at an elite level and is an all time great. I just don't see either fighter dominating the other. Both will have their moments. I think the deciding factor for Shane will be Nazim because Shane has been teste and proven agains some really stiff comp. For Floyd, it's sticking to his plan no matter what, don't get lulled into exchanges, that's Shane's realm. And I'mpretty certain Floyd won't.
A good close fight, win or lose, would make him credible to the niccas who call him coward and all that bullshit, like I used to. Actually I really don't see a way Floyd could lose even if he loses. Unless he's straight beat up or ko'd and that is a longshot.
Ya'll some disrespectful mufuccas.
Agreed. But it would be kinda questionable to me if he dominates Shane because I could never see him dominating a young Shane and 39 is still 39. But no matter what, Shane is still fighting at an elite level and is an all time great. I just don't see either fighter dominating the other. Both will have their moments. I think the deciding factor for Shane will be Nazim. For Floyd, it's sticking to his plan no matter what, don't get lulled into exchanges, that's Shane's realm.
A good close fight, win or lose, would make him credible to the niccas who call him coward and all that bullshit, like I used to. Actually I really don't see a way Floyd could lose even if he loses. Unless he's straight beat up or ko'd and that is a longshot.
I don't think he will but that's a worse case scenario for him except a ko loss. A competitive decision loss would be more acceptable in some ways that a decisive, one sided win. You saw how quick he was to stop Shane from even putting out in the ether the words "too old".
Yeah, I caught that shit too.
Old or not, he's still number 3 in the p4p rankings and hasn't really lost much of his handspeed or stamina. I was actually surprised that he looked about as fast as Floyd when he was doing his pad work with brother Nazim.Yeah, I caught that shit too.
Shane's a beast and I really wanted to see him fight Berto (who should ease off the Twitter).
I've always thought Floyd was more sudden than fast. He is fast but when he fought Judah, a faster fighter, I could see the difference.
Mayweather-Pacquiao is the bigger fight but this one is the best.
The best examples of that were his knockdowns of Corrales. Dudes reflexes are stunning.
Berto is a good fighter, I see him as a better Rocky Juarez. Good fighter, can fight against the best, just can't beat them. Watching him with Quintana, I couldn't help but picture him fighting Shane and getting ko'd when he leaps in like he does by a sudden left hook by Mosley. Berto is talented, just undisciplined and too physically tight, it impedes his upper body movement. His defense is also lacking and his chin is still suspect imho. But he has power and great speed and heart.
I think Pac/Mosley would be the best action fight for the public. But this is the best boxing match from a purists standpoint.
Agreed on all points.
We're agreeing too much but I can't think of anything controversial to mess it up.
Here's a question for you Dave. If Cotto loses to Yuri Foreman, what becomes of him? Also does Steward really make a difference at this point in Miguel's career.He's done. Foreman's a real dude but nobody's heard of him, relatively speaking. It would be like losing to a nobody and he's coming off the Pacquiao and Margarito defeats with a narrow win over Clottey, who's been discredited by his Pacquiao performance.
Maybe on Steward.
Maybe on Steward.
The worst thing Cotto and most Puerto Rican fighters do, is stick with their trainers no matter what. Tito could have expanded his game with out his dad and gone back to being the effective boxer puncher he was, working behind the jab. He deteriorated into a left hook first brawler. Wilfred Benitez stuck with his dad and it spelled doom for him as his dad was content to not make his son train and spent his money for him. Cotto refused to go outside his camp after his uncle(who now seems like he had Miguel on the right track) "left". My dad had been telling me that Cotto needed another trainer since right after the Mosley fight which my dad now feels Shane won. (I'll have to watch again as I thought Cotto eeked it out in the last round) I think Steward, as he says, is enough of a fan of Cotto to know exactly what Miguel is doing wrong and try to correct it, it's on Miguel to absorb, work on and utilize all that. If I was Cotto, I'd go into training as if this were my first time walking into the gym, knowing I've got a lot to learn. Stewrd worked wonders for Holyfield and made Lennox Lewis a better fighter, relatively late in their respective careers. Then again Cotto might just be physically fucked-up especially after the beating he recieved from "Hands of Plaster". I mean I never saw a fighter with blood coming out of their ears.
The worst thing Cotto and most Puerto Rican fighters do, is stick with their trainers no matter what. Tito could have expanded his game with out his dad and gone back to being the effective boxer puncher he was, working behind the jab. He deteriorated into a left hook first brawler. Wilfred Benitez stuck with his dad and it spelled doom for him as his dad was content to not make his son train and spent his money for him. Cotto refused to go outside his camp after his uncle(who now seems like he had Miguel on the right track) "left". My dad had been telling me that Cotto needed another trainer since right after the Mosley fight which my dad now feels Shane won. (I'll have to watch again as I thought Cotto eeked it out in the last round) I think Steward, as he says, is enough of a fan of Cotto to know exactly what Miguel is doing wrong and try to correct it, it's on Miguel to absorb, work on and utilize all that. If I was Cotto, I'd go into training as if this were my first time walking into the gym, knowing I've got a lot to learn. Stewrd worked wonders for Holyfield and made Lennox Lewis a better fighter, relatively late in their respective careers. Then again Cotto might just be physically fucked-up especially after the beating he recieved from "Hands of Plaster". I mean I never saw a fighter with blood coming out of their ears.
Agree again. Boring.
If Cotto can absorb what Steward's trying to tell him, he should be fine. I thought he would help Jermaine Taylor but they were obviously not a good match.
It's bad with PRs but I think a lot of fighters could use, if not new trainers, new eyes during training. Paul Williams probably needs a new voice in training. Kelly Pavlik definitely needs one. Most of the great fighters make some changes somewhere in their corner. Shane and Roy Jones even cut their pops.
I had Shane winning that fight too but it was close. I didn't have much respect Cotto before that fight and just when he started to get it from me, he got on his bike in the last 2 rounds and stopped engaging like he had in the first 10. I think the first rounds of his Pacquiao fight are overrated but his entire fight with Mosley is underrated.
Agree again. Boring.
If Cotto can absorb what Steward's trying to tell him, he should be fine. I thought he would help Jermaine Taylor but they were obviously not a good match.
It's bad with PRs but I think a lot of fighters could use, if not new trainers, new eyes during training. Paul Williams probably needs a new voice in training. Kelly Pavlik definitely needs one. Most of the great fighters make some changes somewhere in their corner. Shane and Roy Jones even cut their pops.
I had Shane winning that fight too but it was close. I didn't have much respect Cotto before that fight and just when he started to get it from me, he got on his bike in the last 2 rounds and stopped engaging like he had in the first 10. I think the first rounds of his Pacquiao fight are overrated but his entire fight with Mosley is underrated.
Agreed. Again.
He's definitely the biggest name but more because people want to witness him lose than just based on his amazing skill set. I must say, when you compare him and the interest in him now to the first half of his career, he definitely is a marketing and PR genius! I remember earlier in his career there were discussions on how he should be more well known based on his talent. I can't hate on him, he does what he does well, both boxing and PR!!!
Controversy?
Sven Ottke could have beaten any of the Super Six. By knockout!!!!!!!!! Beat that.
Not Abraham. That cat would have hit him dirty and then blamed him for it.
How about
Considering his reach and height advantages, I think either Klitschko could beat Muhammad Ali by ko in 8. Either one. And Ali in 67 when he was butchering Terrell, not Ali '81.
He's definitely the biggest name but more because people want to witness him lose than just based on his amazing skill set. I must say, when you compare him and the interest in him now to the first half of his career, he definitely is a marketing and PR genius! I remember earlier in his career there were discussions on how he should be more well known based on his talent. I can't hate on him, he does what he does well, both boxing and PR!!!
An even better question is where does Cotto stand if he wins? especially If he squeaks by on that Clottey shit. Is the nigga's career still in the gutter at that point? I like Foreman, but this isn't going to give him much points outside of boxing fans. He might as well fought a nobody w/o skills and got an easy knockout win.
Good point.
The worst thing Cotto and most Puerto Rican fighters do, is stick with their trainers no matter what. Tito could have expanded his game with out his dad and gone back to being the effective boxer puncher he was, working behind the jab. He deteriorated into a left hook first brawler. Wilfred Benitez stuck with his dad and it spelled doom for him as his dad was content to not make his son train and spent his money for him. Cotto refused to go outside his camp after his uncle(who now seems like he had Miguel on the right track) "left". My dad had been telling me that Cotto needed another trainer since right after the Mosley fight which my dad now feels Shane won. (I'll have to watch again as I thought Cotto eeked it out in the last round) I think Steward, as he says, is enough of a fan of Cotto to know exactly what Miguel is doing wrong and try to correct it, it's on Miguel to absorb, work on and utilize all that. If I was Cotto, I'd go into training as if this were my first time walking into the gym, knowing I've got a lot to learn. Stewrd worked wonders for Holyfield and made Lennox Lewis a better fighter, relatively late in their respective careers. Then again Cotto might just be physically fucked-up especially after the beating he recieved from "Hands of Plaster". I mean I never saw a fighter with blood coming out of their ears.
Respect to your pops but there is no way Shane won. I thought once Shane won... it would set up PBF v Shane, but I was shocked to see Shane get schooled. I watched the fight a lot and there is no way you can score it for Shane in my opinion. It was close but that is one thing you can't take from Cotto.
If Berto was smart he would step out the way of Pac and Floyd and go after Shane. Of the three Berto has his best chance with Shane. Pacman is too much of a beast and Floyd would pick the nigga apart... Shane is tough to beat, but the nigga isn't the fighter he used to be. Even if he loses... I don't see a blow out or complete domination. Plus taking a strongly contended L to HOF won't hurt his career too much.
If Pac and Floyd fight... I see a trilogy and those niggas will retire each other. Win or Lose to Shane, Berto will be at the top of a dead division... where he can dominate the niggas that are left.
Not Abraham. That cat would have hit him dirty and then blamed him for it.
How about
Considering his reach and height advantages, I think either Klitschko could beat Muhammad Ali by ko in 8. Either one. And Ali in 67 when he was butchering Terrell, not Ali '81.
Jack Dempsey would've beaten both Klitschkos at the same time, he would've hit Vitali over the head with Vlad and jumped in the crowd and slapped Jack Johnson with a leather glove.
Very true, but he is a Bob Arum fighter and so is Yuri. Arum and Yuri are both Jews. In essence, Bob thinks he's feeding Cotto to the wolves to give Yuri a big name on his resume.
To get beack on track, Cotto has to either beat up Yuri really bad or ko him and then fight a guy like maybe Berto or Collazo and do the same thing. Actually Luis and Cotto or Berto and Cotto could make for a couple nice fights. Perhaps at a 150 catchweight. Good point though.
And slapped Jack Johnson???? See, I knew you knew nothing about boxing and this proves it.
That feels better.
Yep. I'd like to see either fight. But if Cotto's taking jr. middleweight fights, he should probably stay there and I don't see Berto moving up to fight him when he's the guy in the best position to benefit from the Mosley-Mayweather-Pacquiao scenarios. He's going to fight one of them by year's end, January at the latest.
I diasgree totally, the wort ass whuppin Berto would get is from Mosley. I think Mosley is a better fighter than he was when he fougt Cotto. What are you basing this on, and please don't say the fight with Mayorga. Styles make fights and certain styles mix and produce wack ass fights. Imo Pac is the overrated nicca in the division, not Shane or Floyd. Pac usually fights niccas who've been recently beat up or coming off losses. Why didn't he stay at 135 and complete the trilogy with MArquez when everyone and their mom was screaming that he lost that fight. I don't see a Pac/May trilogy. Neither is going to bend on that steroid shit. They walked away from the biggest payday of any two fighters yet. I doubt we'll ever see that fight. I don't care about seeing that shit anyway. Mosley and Floyd I've been waiting for over 10 years. Fuck that nicca Manny, he didn't wanna fight Shane and he didn't wanna fight Floyd, whoever wins this fight should leapfrog Manny for #1.
Look I like Mosley but Mosley has had better days. I was basing it on two things the Mayorga fight and the Cotto fight. As fast as Mosley used to be or may still be... I thought the Mosley/Cotto fight would be a mismatch based on Mosley's speed, but Cotto made the nigga look like he lost a step. That whole fight Mosley looked like he was playing catch up to a quicker fighter. Granted Cotto is a better pure boxer at this point than Berto, but I think Berto might be faster than Shane now. In the Mayorga fight, I saw Shane getting out point by a fighter who Shane should have every advantage over whether we talking offense/defense skills or natural talent such as speed/power/agility.
Yes, both Pac and Floyd are overrated welters but they aren't overrated boxers. I think Pac will meet his match in the power department against Shane or Berto but I don't know about speed and agility. I know you are a critic of Floyd but the skill set is too much. Of course, all of our questions will be answer on 05/01/2010.
Also if Floyd beats Shane... the demand for PBF V. Pac will reach an insane level. Someone will cave for the money and it should be Pac... Once that money is out there... we all know how boxing goes, these motherfuckers will have no choice but to double and triple dip.
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I still maintain that Mosley is a different fighter and would crush MAyorga right now and forget about Cotto, I think he would ko Cotto late now. I really don't think Mosley has lost much of a step. And you forget that Cotto was on his way to being THE man at welter before Margarito. Cotto put it all together in that Mosley fight and it will be his first and last great performance. Styles make fights. I look at Mosley in those 2 fights as a stale fighter not a washed up one. He needed a new trainer, he probably didn't even want the Mayorga fight. And as garbage as people claim Mayorga to be, the nicca owns 2 wins over Vernon Forrest, one by ko. I maintain Shane is a different fighter. Also Berto gets away with a myriad of mistakes against a guy with no fighting spirit like Quintana. Berto would have been ko'd against Shane. This ain't gonna be MArquez/Mayweather. And I always wondered why everyone was so impressed with Floyd's performance against him. He really didn't do shit. I'm not a Pacfan, but he's the man at welter right now. Also I'm a critic of Floyd, but not his skills. It's just if everyone is expecting Floyd to do a Floyd all night against Shane, I think they are seriously mistaken. Floyd has gotten older and slower to the point where he and Mosley ae pretty even in the speed department. He's also an easy study because he fights the same way every fight. I'm sure Shane and brother Nazim have a very good plan. Executing it is another story, we'll see on 05/01/2010 like you said.
I do agree with Merc assessment of Shane. While he looked bad in his loses to Wright and Forrest, it was more of a style issue than him falling off. Also, even though he has been around for a minute, he has never really been beaten up a lot during his career and with the periodic layoffs he is not a true 38 year old, sort of like Vitaly. I really see this as a physical matchup and even though I give Floyd a slight edge it is the slightest of edges. I am damn near seeing this as a pick em fight. I don't expect Shane to get old over night, primarily due to the fact that Fliyd doesn't have the style or work rate to cause that type of a fight.
on a side note, Floyd may or may not be the biggest name in boxing my he for damn sure is the biggest boxing name on BGOL! You guys are aware that Valero committed suicide right?!?!
good convo though fellas, real rap!
on a side note, Floyd may or may not be the biggest name in boxing my he for damn sure is the biggest boxing name on BGOL! You guys are aware that Valero committed suicide right?!?!
good convo though fellas, real rap!
I do agree with Merc assessment of Shane. While he looked bad in his loses to Wright and Forrest, it was more of a style issue than him falling off. Also, even though he has been around for a minute, he has never really been beaten up a lot during his career and with the periodic layoffs he is not a true 38 year old, sort of like Vitaly. I really see this as a physical matchup and even though I give Floyd a slight edge it is the slightest of edges. I am damn near seeing this as a pick em fight. I don't expect Shane to get old over night, primarily due to the fact that Fliyd doesn't have the style or work rate to cause that type of a fight.
on a side note, Floyd may or may not be the biggest name in boxing my he for damn sure is the biggest boxing name on BGOL! You guys are aware that Valero committed suicide right?!?!
good convo though fellas, real rap!
Seriously, that's pretty much how I see this matchup. Btw, much respect due to ya'll, always coming with different viewpoints and good convo like TJervey said, word. People, in my opinion, are making a bit too much of this layoff of Mosley's. Once you get to his age, it's actually beneficial to the fighter to only fight once a year. Much less wear and tear on the body, less weight fluctuations. Especially guys like B-Hop, Mosley, and Marquez who've stayed in the gym working and never balloon up in weight. Being relatively inactive, that is compared to a guy like Pac who usually fights every 3 or 4 months, is a benefit at that age imho. Peep how quickly downhill Roy went because of the weight fluctualtions and trying to fight 3 or 4 times a year at 36 or 37. I think Mosley's going to show about as much ring rust as Floyd did vs J.M. Marquez.
That is, very slight, and after the first minute and a half of round 1, I don't think it'll be noticeable at all. I keep saying that if Zab could give Floyd as many problems as he did before he imploded and even had the quickness and power to knock him down, Shane is going to be worse, it'll be on Floyd to figure him out and shut him down. This is a fight where neither can afford even a bullshit knockdown or points deduction.
I would agree except we haven't seen Nazim's Mosley vs a quick fighter. Mosley looked good against Collazo, but everyone else has been sluggish brawlers or an L added to his record.
Floyd fights the same which is true, but he hasn't had to change up. I think Shane will force a different Floyd to show up, but I agree with Nazim that PBF will go hard with his back against the wall.
I want to ask you... who do you think will be Berto best match up out the three?
The one thing I don't get is how you can down play Shane's performance against Mayorga... when a last round KO save him from a terrible lost, but turn around and talk so highly about the 1 or 2 rounds the Zab looked decent against Floyd. Zab didn't do anything spectacular... he just held his own.
You guys are aware that Valero committed suicide right?!?!
good convo though fellas, real rap!
yeah, and....
the nigga probably killed his wife so... he had it coming.
He fucked up some interesting boxing match ups.
I'm glad you said this shit first!!! After it settle in I felt sad for the families and shit but my FIRST reaction was.. "Fuck, now he's never gonna be able to fight in the US!!!! Shit!!!! We are some twisted Dudes on BGOL sometimes!!!
People, in my opinion, are making a bit too much of this layoff of Mosley's. Once you get to his age, it's actually beneficial to the fighter to only fight once a year. Much less wear and tear on the body, less weight fluctuations. Especially guys like B-Hop, Mosley, and Marquez who've stayed in the gym working and never balloon up in weight. Being relatively inactive, that is compared to a guy like Pac who usually fights every 3 or 4 months, is a benefit at that age imho. Peep how quickly downhill Roy went because of the weight fluctualtions and trying to fight 3 or 4 times a year at 36 or 37. I think Mosley's going to show about as much ring rust as Floyd did vs J.M. Marquez.
That is, very slight, and after the first minute and a half of round 1, I don't think it'll be noticeable at all. I keep saying that if Zab could give Floyd as many problems as he did before he imploded and even had the quickness and power to knock him down, Shane is going to be worse, it'll be on Floyd to figure him out and shut him down. This is a fight where neither can afford even a bullshit knockdown or points deduction.
It's funny but Floyd talk has hijacked about 20 threads on this Jawn!!!
I can see it now, a thread titled "Iceland Volcano shuts down European Air Travel", and Niggas on BGOL leave posts like "Damn, this shit might cause them to Postpone PPV overseas which might Fuck up Floyd's money and shit!!! 
"""
He did more than hold his own, had that been a four round fight, Floyd would've lost.
And it wasn't so much a case of Floyd figuring that nicca out, Zab fucked himself in everyone of the big fights he lost, Floyd did nothing special in that fight and it was his biggest fight to date against a guy who could match his physical talents. Mosley is that times 2. Styles make fights, I saw a stale Shane against Mayorga. Like I said Mayorga beat Vernon Forrest twice. Oscar looked like shit against Mayorga except for the knockout and it took Tito severely beating that nigga for eight rounds for him to stop him. You actually had MAyorga winning that fight when Shane ko'd him?!?!?!?