The "HEALTH CARE MAFIA" vs. Obama -learn the facts!!! -not the LIES

[muckraker10021]

The for-profit-only US health care industry is spending more than 1.4 million dollars per day to defeat ANY reform of America's broken health care system. 50 million Americans have NO health care coverage. 56% of all personal bankruptcies are due to the inability to pay for life-saving medical operations that the for-profit-only US health care companies refuse to cover. Even if you have health insurance your premium cost have soared more than 35% in the last two years alone.

President Obama's morally responsible & fiscally coherent attempt to start to fix America's fatally flawed health care delivery system is being meet by the most vituperatively vitriolic RepubliKlan hate speech we have seen since the 2008 presidential campaign ended.

"Kill It" is the RepubliKlan mantra about health care for all. The RepubliKlan is not alone in wanting to drive a 'stake in the heart' of ANY reform of the current corrupt health care system. DINO (Democrats In Name Only) like Sen. Joe Lieberman and Sen. Matt Baucus and about 40 "blue-dog" House members, all who have received $$$$ millions from the 'Health Care Mafia', are also wavering in their support of Obama's health care reform plan.

The two videos below are MUST SEES -

In the first video you will see thousands of uninsured people lining up from 4AM in the morning to receive free medical care provided by a non-profit organization and volunteer doctors & dentists.

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In the second video you will hear an interview with a top echelon 'Health Care Mafia' insider who spent 15 years with the 'Health Care Mafia' deliberately & willfully ripping-off and denying health care coverage to as many Americans as they could. The motive? Profit at any cost! Even the cost of dead Americans.

WATCH VIDEO http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

 

[actinanass]

i just love liberal propaganda...

 

[Gunner]

Michael Moore is that you??

 

[thoughtone]

i just love liberal propaganda...

Opposed to Faux Snooze? Oh yea, they admit to their bias. So did Joseph Goebbels.

 

[actinanass]

Opposed to Faux Snooze? Oh yea, they admit to their bias. So did Joseph Goebbels.

don't forget your friends Lenin, and Stalin...OH YEA Marx too!!

 

[Zmaniac723]

The for-profit-only US health care industry is spending more than 1.4 million dollars per day to defeat ANY reform of America's broken health care system. 50 million Americans have NO health care coverage. 56% of all personal bankruptcies are due to the inability to pay for life-saving medical operations that the for-profit-only US health care companies refuse to cover. Even if you have health insurance your premium cost have soared more than 35% in the last two years alone.

President Obama's morally responsible & fiscally coherent attempt to start to fix America's fatally flawed health care delivery system is being meet by the most vituperatively vitriolic RepubliKlan hate speech we have seen since the 2008 presidential campaign ended.

"Kill It" is the RepubliKlan mantra about health care for all. The RepubliKlan is not alone in wanting to drive a 'stake in the heart' of ANY reform of the current corrupt health care system. DINO (Democrats In Name Only) like Sen. Joe Lieberman and Sen. Matt Baucus and about 40 "blue-dog" House members, all who have received $$$$ millions from the 'Health Care Mafia', are also wavering in their support of Obama's health care reform plan.

That's my favorite line. The CBO ripped that claim to shreads.

 

[Lamarr]

I watched both the clips & honestly, I respect a lot of Moyers' work. I have a few concerns for anyone who has more insight into Obama's plan:

1) who will end up paying for this? meaning, if citizens can't afford healthcare right now, what makes anyone think it will all of a sudden be affordable?

2) How will this affect people who value their privacy?

3) To some, healthcare is not a right!

4) Does anyone fear diminished quality of service?

5) Will there be mandatory participation

6) I hear the term "rationing" quite a bit, any reason to be concerned?

Seriously, the thought of the govt overseeing my healthcare scares the crap out of me. But I'm listening to all viewpoints

 

[thoughtone]

don't forget your friends Lenin, and Stalin...OH YEA Marx too!!

GW learned well from his granddad.

 

[thoughtone]

Michael Moore is that you??

You could only wish.

 

[QueEx]

i just love liberal propaganda...

I'm with you. But, can YOU take the statements, one by one, and prove their falsehood ??? Or, are YOU just playing the usual, My Party is better than Your Party kindergarten politics ???

QueEx

 

[thoughtone]

I'm with you. But, can YOU take the statements, one by one, and prove their falsehood ??? Or, are YOU just playing the usual, My Party is better than Your Party kindergarten politics ???

QueEx

Why? You know opinions are more valid than facts.

 

[thoughtone]

I'm with you. But, can YOU take the statements, one by one, and prove their falsehood ??? Or, are YOU just playing the usual, My Party is better than Your Party kindergarten politics ???

QueEx

Why? You know opinions are more valid than facts.

 

[actinanass]

I'm with you. But, can YOU take the statements, one by one, and prove their falsehood ??? Or, are YOU just playing the usual, My Party is better than Your Party kindergarten politics ???

QueEx

First of all, its not about party lines on this one. Don't assume that I follow the straight party line philosophy.

As for proving their falsehood, that would contain me actually wasting energy on an article that I know to be strictly propaganda. Any man with a brain in his head could see the propaganda from a mile away.

For example, whenever they put a demonizing term as "mafia" to describe the opposition to their Lord, and Savior Barack Obama, is a clear sign of propaganda type rhetoric. Should I go on?

I find it funny that only the conservatives are raising the question about nationalize health care when it relates to Congress. I mean, if we want to throw around demonizing terms maybe we need to throw something towards Pelosi's way. Of all people, she is running the congress with a mob-like ambition. Her, Obama, and Reid is running this government like Joe Pesci runs a diamond heist syndicate on Casino. Take everything, fuck everyone, and claim that they are helping everyone.

Since I'm on a roll right now, why do all of this needs to happen so fast? I mean, have we survived THIS long without this type of legislation? Who to say we won't last another 265+ years without it again? Why the hurry Obama supporters? Why not take your time, and make sure you want this type of reform? Could it be that he *your lord, and savior Barack Obama* is actually scared of this becoming a failure?

See, I can use demonizing terms too. I bet the Vegasguy, Thoughtone's of this board would shit bricks if I actually told it like I actually feel about it.

 

[thoughtone]

First of all, its not about party lines on this one. Don't assume that I follow the straight party line philosophy.

As for proving their falsehood, that would contain me actually wasting energy on an article that I know to be strictly propaganda. Any man with a brain in his head could see the propaganda from a mile away.

For example, whenever they put a demonizing term as "mafia" to describe the opposition to their Lord, and Savior Barack Obama, is a clear sign of propaganda type rhetoric. Should I go on?

I find it funny that only the conservatives are raising the question about nationalize health care when it relates to Congress. I mean, if we want to throw around demonizing terms maybe we need to throw something towards Pelosi's way. Of all people, she is running the congress with a mob-like ambition. Her, Obama, and Reid is running this government like Joe Pesci runs a diamond heist syndicate on Casino. Take everything, fuck everyone, and claim that they are helping everyone.

Since I'm on a roll right now, why do all of this needs to happen so fast? I mean, have we survived THIS long without this type of legislation? Who to say we won't last another 265+ years without it again? Why the hurry Obama supporters? Why not take your time, and make sure you want this type of reform? Could it be that he *your lord, and savior Barack Obama* is actually scared of this becoming a failure?
See, I can use demonizing terms too. I bet the Vegasguy, Thoughtone's of this board would shit bricks if I actually told it like I actually feel about it.

Of all people, she is running the congress with a mob-like ambition.

Yea, right! If Nancy Pelosi ran congress half has partisan as Dennis Hastert and Newt Gingrich did, the health care bill would have been passed a long time ago with out any republican consultation, you can bet on that!

Why do all of this needs to happen so fast? I mean, have we survived THIS long without this type of legislation? Who to say we won't last another 265+ years without it again?

Happen so fast? In 1948 Harry Truman asked for this, Clinton asked for it in 1992, obviously you didn’t hear Obama’s speech on the matter. He said even the republicans for years have convened committees of private experts on health care reform, but it gets tabled time after time in politics. Even on this board, we have been debating this subject for at least 2 years. As Thurgood Marshall said, “I believe in gradualism, but, 60 years is too gradual!

As I stated in a thread when you asked for evidence of my claim, and then disappeared as usual, around 45 million people are uninsured and the number one reasoned people file for bankruptcy is being unable to pay medical bills. People who are out of work cannot afford to continue to pay health insurance and people who are seriously ill get rejected from health issuance. Just because your selfish ass has not been in one of those positions (yet) doesn’t mean that it is not urgent.

scared of this becoming a failure?

This is how right wingers think, getting elected to maintain the status quo. You think this is personal. You and your type think it is personal.

 

[actinanass]

Yea, right! If Nancy Pelosi ran congress half has partisan as Dennis Hastert and Newt Gingrich did, the health care bill would have been passed a long time ago with out any republican consultation, you can bet on that!



Happen so fast? In 1948 Harry Truman asked for this, Clinton asked for it in 1992, obviously you didn’t hear Obama’s speech on the matter. He said even the republicans for years have convened committees of private experts on health care reform, but it gets tabled time after time in politics. Even on this board, we have been debating this subject for at least 2 years. As Thurgood Marshall said, “I believe in gradualism, but, 60 years is too gradual!

As I stated in a thread when you asked for evidence of my claim, and then disappeared as usual, around 45 million people are uninsured and the number one reasoned people file for bankruptcy is being unable to pay medical bills. People who are out of work cannot afford to continue to pay health insurance and people who are seriously ill get rejected from health issuance. Just because your selfish ass has not been in one of those positions (yet) doesn’t mean that it is not urgent.



This is how right wingers think, getting elected to maintain the status quo. You think this is personal. You and your type think it is personal.

1. How many uninsured people are uninsured voluntarily?

2. If they file for bankruptcy, who fault is it?

3. Out of all the people who gets rejected from health insurance, how many have been denied health care whenever they get a serious injury?

My point about opposing this bill is because for a long time *when I was 18-21* I did not have health insurance. In fact, my mom didn't have it at the time *due to her activities*. I fucked around and broke my hand. I went to the emergency room, got a X-ray, put it in a cast *splchk*, went home, and got a bill in the mail. No one denied me because of the injury. In fact, I believe that its illegal to deny patients in the state of Texas. See, me not being on an insurance during that time did not stop me from getting treatment. So, again, why do people need to insured so much by the government again?

 

[thoughtone]

1. How many uninsured people are uninsured voluntarily?

2. If they file for bankruptcy, who fault is it?

3. Out of all the people who gets rejected from health insurance, how many have been denied health care whenever they get a serious injury?

My point about opposing this bill is because for a long time *when I was 18-21* I did not have health insurance. In fact, my mom didn't have it at the time *due to her activities*. I fucked around and broke my hand. I went to the emergency room, got a X-ray, put it in a cast *splchk*, went home, and got a bill in the mail. No one denied me because of the injury. In fact, I believe that its illegal to deny patients in the state of Texas. See, me not being on an insurance during that time did not stop me from getting treatment. So, again, why do people need to insured so much by the government again?

All of these comments are why the republicans began losing in 2006 and will continue to loose numbers.

 

[actinanass]

All of these comments are why the republicans began losing in 2006 and will continue to loose numbers.

...they were questions, not comments.

Damn, I forgot, you can't answer valid questions........

 

[QueEx]

1. How many uninsured people are uninsured voluntarily?

Interesting question. I'd like to know the answer as well. Do you know, or were you merely being sarcastic ???

2. If they file for bankruptcy, who fault is it?

Again, an interesting question and I'd like to know the answer. Do you know, or were you merely being sarcastic ???

3. Out of all the people who gets rejected from health insurance, how many have been denied health care whenever they get a serious injury?

??? Whats the answser ???

My point about opposing this bill is because for a long time *when I was 18-21* I did not have health insurance. In fact, my mom didn't have it at the time *due to her activities*. I fucked around and broke my hand. I went to the emergency room, got a X-ray, put it in a cast *splchk*, went home, and got a bill in the mail.

No one denied me because of the injury. In fact, I believe that its illegal to deny patients in the state of Texas. See, me not being on an insurance during that time did not stop me from getting treatment. So, again, why do people need to insured so much by the government again?

Interesting. You broke your hand; didn't have insurance; went to ER; received treatment; got a bill in the mail; end of story.

Most interesting, however, YOU FAILED TO PAY!

Now who paid that bill ??? I would respectfully submit to you that the People of the Great State of Texas did. YOU, Mr. conservative, LOL, placed a burden on the "Gubment" - - the taxes of the Great State of Texas -- AND -- none other than your good fellow citizens of Texas who pay those taxes to the State of Texas.

Perhaps you're right, why do we need to reform the healthcare system? - when we have people like you all over the country burdening government and the taxpayers - AND - people like us, paying for it ???


Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Now you're going to try say you paid for it right ??? Sure you did. As a so-called conservative, that would have been the first thing you would have pointed out in your story, but you didn't, cause you didn't. AND, you went through great pains to say you "got a bill in the mail" -- which gave you the perfect opportunity to say, and I/my mom paid it. But you didn't, cause you didn't.

QueEx

 

[BigUnc]

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. I'm going to say that my thought's are changing somewhat about this issue.The number 45-50 million uninsured has come into question lately and the rationale for challenging that number has validity.

1)Some are uninsured by choice.
2)Some because, I'll be gentle, their priorities are out of balance.
3)Some because they want it but do not have the money to get it.


The claim is that those truly uninsured are in the 3rd category and represent about 15 million adults and children. These people are most likely:

a. moderate income households whose employer does not offer health insurance.
b. the working poor whose income is just above the threshold for government assistance.

I don't have hard data on this as it's just recently been brought to my attention. It does seem reasonable to me that the breakdown would be similar to this, if true, it has the potential of changing the debate in a constructive manner enabling the focus to be on those that need insurance now.

The focus should be on those adults and children who are most vulnerable to unattended health problems which if caught early could reduce mortality and morbidity and save bucket loads of cash.If health care reform is truly Obama's and the Dems goal then this is the place to start. I'm not convince reform is their goal but that they're using this as a means for a government takeover which means an expansion of government power.

I would appreciate any input others may have.

BigUnc

 

[Lamarr]

The focus should be on those adults and children who are most vulnerable to unattended health problems which if caught early could reduce mortality and morbidity and save bucket loads of cash.If health care reform is truly Obama's and the Dems goal then this is the place to start. I'm not convince reform is their goal but that they're using this as a means for a government takeover which means an expansion of government power.

I would appreciate any input others may have.

BigUnc

how true, Your delivery is so much more eloquent than mine but I'll contribute. If the intent is towards true reform, IMO, they should focus more on preventive-care as opposed to managed-care. When was the last time we saw a cure for somethin'? But Big Pharma got a pill for everything, it just costs $300/wk! I will concede alternative solutions should be explored but it should not come from govt.

I'm still learning about this but I'm concerned about privacy issues, mandatory participation, etc.

 

[thoughtone]

how true, Your delivery is so much more eloquent than mine but I'll contribute. If the intent is towards true reform, IMO, they should focus more on preventive-care as opposed to managed-care. When was the last time we saw a cure for somethin'? But Big Pharma got a pill for everything, it just costs $300/wk! I will concede alternative solutions should be explored but it should not come from govt.

I'm still learning about this but I'm concerned about privacy issues, mandatory participation, etc.

they should focus more on preventive-care as opposed to managed-care.

For the umpteenth time, there is no profit in maintaining good health. How many times do I have to state this!

I'm concerned about privacy issues, mandatory participation, etc

If that is your main sticking point, you should be more concerned now. To get health insurance through your employer, if you have ever read the contract, if you have an injury, you must take a drug test and state if you have ever taken an illegal substance or drug that has been proven to cause harmful side effects, this voids the coverage. Your health information is shared with credit agencies. In short, you have no privacy now!

 

[Lamarr]

For the umpteenth time, there is no profit in maintaining good health. How many times do I have to state this!

then maybe that is where the govt should focus their efforts, if they have such well-intentions. 2) what should our expectations be if the govt takes over healthcare, Haven't I been the one on this forum informing others about the "unintended consequences" of govt intervention in regards to economic policy? Healthcare, it makes no difference because special interests will make the rules & leave the people holding the bill, everytime! Imagine healthcare being run similar to TARP? c'mon Thought?

If that is your main sticking point, you should be more concerned now. To get health insurance through your employer, if you have ever read the contract, if you have an injury, you must take a drug test and state if you have ever taken an illegal substance or drug that has been proven to cause harmful side effects, this voids the coverage. Your health information is shared with credit agencies. In short, you have no privacy now!

Lets start there, the priority should be to make the govt accountable & protect our rights to privacy. The Constitution was written to restrain the force/power of govt. & to protect the civil liberties of all. (got that from Kucinich!) But since you give in to the notion that companies can already invade your privacy, might as well let the govt do it too, it saddens me, Where's the fight against the "establishment"? What you've seen since Nixon has been one concerted effort towards Facism, (you know, when companies partner with the govt to stifle the people. ) Now this is the ultimate power grab. Some people, including myself, don't want the govt interfering with our health. Sorry for goin off on a tangent but what we have at stake is the "core" of freedom!

As you know, I'm still learning about this subject & I'm blessed with good health but the dialog that govt will fix all of our problems baffles me.

 

[thoughtone]

then maybe that is where the govt should focus their efforts, if they have such well-intentions. 2) what should our expectations be if the govt takes over healthcare, Haven't I been the one on this forum informing others about the "unintended consequences" of govt intervention in regards to economic policy? Healthcare, it makes no difference because special interests will make the rules & leave the people holding the bill, everytime! Imagine healthcare being run similar to TARP? c'mon Thought?

If you have been paying attention, the bill does focus on preventive measures. Now if you have an ache or pain, you have to wait until it is substantial. The plan is to prevent emergency room visits, MRI test and the like. These are the things that raise costs because they are big budget procedures.

Lets start there, the priority should be to make the govt accountable & protect our rights to privacy. The Constitution was written to restrain the force/power of govt. & to protect the civil liberties of all. (got that from Kucinich!) But since you give in to the notion that companies can already invade your privacy, might as well let the govt do it too, it saddens me, Where's the fight against the "establishment"? What you've seen since Nixon has been one concerted effort towards Facism, (you know, when companies partner with the govt to stifle the people. ) Now this is the ultimate power grab. Some people, including myself, don't want the govt interfering with our health. Sorry for goin off on a tangent but what we have at stake is the "core" of freedom!

Business privacy reports? Did you know prior to the law being passed several years ago, you actually had to pay for copies of your credit report from the major credit rating agencies? Now they are obligated by law to give you free reports upon request three times a year. And yet, they are still trying to scam you. You have seen the commercial “Free Credit Report.com”? Once you go to their site, they try to sell you something that is available to you free by law. You are so ingrained in ideology, that your logic is being clouded. I understand that healthy mistrust of the “government” is normal and wise, but again, as I have stated many, many, many times before, business’s goal is to make a profit. Generally your only recourses to redress grievances from a profit making entity is to request information. They are not obligated to you for anything other than what the law (i.e. the government) mandates them to do. You do as a citizen have recourse from the government, at least thru your representative and of course, voting. Get it!

As you know, I'm still learning about this subject & I'm blessed with good health but the dialog that govt will fix all of our problems baffles me.

Never said government will fix all problems. The government is tool granted to us by the constitution. Business interests use it to their advantage (which is debated in many circles if businesses should have the same rights as individual citizens, (this conflict of interests are the main cause of a lot of our problems today, but that is another debate you and your ilk avoid) why can individuals use it to their advantage?

You continually claim you are “still learning” about this issue. I have posted many things like who is funding for and against health reform. I could post more but some posters claim it as propaganda because they are too fucking lazy to think for themselves an post counter FACTS! Other than the net, the public library (oh no another government creation) has tons of info if you truly want to be up on things.

 

[Lamarr]

You continually claim you are “still learning” about this issue. I have posted many things like who is funding for and against health reform. I could post more but some posters claim it as propaganda because they are too fucking lazy to think for themselves an post counter FACTS! Other than the net, the public library (oh no another government creation) has tons of info if you truly want to be up on things.

OK, lets look at some FACTS.


http://www.downsizedc.org/blog/new-campaign-the-dirty-secret-about-expensive-health-insurance
Do you need health insurance coverage for . . .

* Maternity care, if you're a single male
* Infertility, if you don't want a family
* Alcoholism, if you don't drink

If you live in New York state then you (or your employer) must pay for all these things, by law, or go without health insurance.

It's even worse in New Jersey, where the law only permits four basic health insurance plans, each with its own cluster of mandatory coverages. As a result, family premiums run from $2,631.41 to $6,467.58, per month. (Source: "America's Health Care Crisis Solved" by J. Patrick Rooney and Dan Perrin, page 113).

People who can't afford those premiums (and few can) must go without health insurance.

Similar situations exist in other states . . .

* In 2008 The Council for Affordable Health Insurance found 1,961 examples of state mandated coverage
* And there's an excellent list of some of the worst cases in Chapter 16 of The Cato Institute's "Handbook for Policy Makers."

Health insurance is too expensive because the politicians have made it that way. They've bowed to lobbyists who want to use the coercive power of government to mandate coverage for . . .

* The medical equivalent of oil changes and tire rotations
* Or things like maternity care for single males, infertility treatments for people who don't want families, and alcoholism therapy for people who don't drink.

These laws corrupt the very nature of insurance. Insurance is supposed to cover unlikely but expensive procedures, NOT simple blood tests, or massages, or acupuncture, or chiropractic adjustments, or anything else we could afford to pay out of pocket, if only so many of us weren't being gouged by legally inflated insurance premiums.

Now the politicians want to redesign the entire American health care system from the top down, in one giant step, to supposedly fix a problem they created in the first place. But, instead of enacting a "grand plan" that will impact, and potentially harm, everyone, and that we may never get rid of once it's in place, the politicians should start by taking a few simple steps to clean up the mess they've made.

Fortunately, not all states have mandatory coverage laws as bad as New York and New Jersey. True major medical coverage is still available in many states, but only if you happen to live in one of those places. Congress can fix this problem very easily. They should pass a law permitting you or your employer to buy insurance regulated by other states. This would . . .

* Enable you or your employer to shop for better deals across state lines
* Put pressure on state governments to liberalize their insurance regulations

Dr. Mary Ruwart has a plan that would reduce healthcare costs by 80% overnight... without costing taxpayers $2 trillion. So why isn't anyone talking about this?

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[QueEx]

OK, lets look at some FACTS . . .

I'm curious. Are the statements in your post above yours, or someone else's ? ? ?

QueEx

 

[actinanass]

Interesting question. I'd like to know the answer as well. Do you know, or were you merely being sarcastic ???




Again, an interesting question and I'd like to know the answer. Do you know, or were you merely being sarcastic ???




??? Whats the answser ???




Interesting. You broke your hand; didn't have insurance; went to ER; received treatment; got a bill in the mail; end of story.

Most interesting, however, YOU FAILED TO PAY!

Now who paid that bill ??? I would respectfully submit to you that the People of the Great State of Texas did. YOU, Mr. conservative, LOL, placed a burden on the "Gubment" - - the taxes of the Great State of Texas -- AND -- none other than your good fellow citizens of Texas who pay those taxes to the State of Texas.

Perhaps you're right, why do we need to reform the healthcare system? - when we have people like you all over the country burdening government and the taxpayers - AND - people like us, paying for it ???


Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Now you're going to try say you paid for it right ??? Sure you did. As a so-called conservative, that would have been the first thing you would have pointed out in your story, but you didn't, cause you didn't. AND, you went through great pains to say you "got a bill in the mail" -- which gave you the perfect opportunity to say, and I/my mom paid it. But you didn't, cause you didn't.

QueEx

the first 3 questions weren't out of sarcasm. They were legitimate questions. I really do not know the answer to these questions.

I actually paid for it when I became a full time employee for the post office. For your information, I take care of my mom. So yea, I can't go off and ask her to pay a bill I created. Just like I told gunner not to assume that Thoughtone is jobless, I'm going to tell you the same thing. Because I may be merely 25 years old do not mean I'm a typical 25 year old man. I have responsibilities that many 30/40 year old men would cringe at.

Maybe I'm burying the lead of your comment?

You said "When we have people like you all over the country burdening government and the taxpayers - AND - people like us, paying for it ???"

The first rule of understanding a liberal mindset *even when they play the objective card* is to see who they need to blame first. Right now, you are basically blaming a person like me *during the time when I didn't care about health insurance* of messing up the medical system. In your argument, I'M THE antagonist. I'm the one that had the audacity to NOT do what everyone wants me to do, including you. Liberalism needs someone to blame to make their argument. What you are missing, Mr/Ms. Que, is the fact that I had a choice in what I wanted to do. I chose not to have insurance because I valued other things. THAT WAS MY CHOICE. Who gives you, Obama, or any other liberal the right to impose anything on me? I'm not calling you a liberal Que, but that was some liberal shit you just posted.

 

[Lamarr]

I'm curious. Are the statements in your post above yours, or someone else's ? ? ?

QueEx

I'm afraid I don't understand. Is this some type of 'trick' question

 

[thoughtone]

OK, lets look at some FACTS.


http://www.downsizedc.org/blog/new-campaign-the-dirty-secret-about-expensive-health-insurance
Do you need health insurance coverage for . . .

* Maternity care, if you're a single male
* Infertility, if you don't want a family
* Alcoholism, if you don't drink

If you live in New York state then you (or your employer) must pay for all these things, by law, or go without health insurance.

It's even worse in New Jersey, where the law only permits four basic health insurance plans, each with its own cluster of mandatory coverages. As a result, family premiums run from $2,631.41 to $6,467.58, per month. (Source: "America's Health Care Crisis Solved" by J. Patrick Rooney and Dan Perrin, page 113).

People who can't afford those premiums (and few can) must go without health insurance.

Similar situations exist in other states . . .

* In 2008 The Council for Affordable Health Insurance found 1,961 examples of state mandated coverage
* And there's an excellent list of some of the worst cases in Chapter 16 of The Cato Institute's "Handbook for Policy Makers."

Health insurance is too expensive because the politicians have made it that way. They've bowed to lobbyists who want to use the coercive power of government to mandate coverage for . . .

* The medical equivalent of oil changes and tire rotations
* Or things like maternity care for single males, infertility treatments for people who don't want families, and alcoholism therapy for people who don't drink.

These laws corrupt the very nature of insurance. Insurance is supposed to cover unlikely but expensive procedures, NOT simple blood tests, or massages, or acupuncture, or chiropractic adjustments, or anything else we could afford to pay out of pocket, if only so many of us weren't being gouged by legally inflated insurance premiums.

Now the politicians want to redesign the entire American health care system from the top down, in one giant step, to supposedly fix a problem they created in the first place. But, instead of enacting a "grand plan" that will impact, and potentially harm, everyone, and that we may never get rid of once it's in place, the politicians should start by taking a few simple steps to clean up the mess they've made.

Fortunately, not all states have mandatory coverage laws as bad as New York and New Jersey. True major medical coverage is still available in many states, but only if you happen to live in one of those places. Congress can fix this problem very easily. They should pass a law permitting you or your employer to buy insurance regulated by other states. This would . . .

* Enable you or your employer to shop for better deals across state lines
* Put pressure on state governments to liberalize their insurance regulations

Dr. Mary Ruwart has a plan that would reduce healthcare costs by 80% overnight... without costing taxpayers $2 trillion. So why isn't anyone talking about this?

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Quote of the Day: "If Obama scews up health care where will the Canadians go?" -- sign seen at a protest event

Yea, the Canadians are storming across the boarder to get lower cost perception drugs because of lack of completion in the pharmaceutical industry. Oh wait, those are the Americans!

 

[Lamarr]

Yea, the Canadians are storming across the boarder to get lower cost perception drugs because of lack of completion in the pharmaceutical industry. Oh wait, those are the Americans!

Thought, all you could gather from that article was a wack-azz joke? What about the link from the Cato Institute's handbook for Policy changes, it was a lot of informative info in there talking about how the policy makers created this mess, which supports all my claims.

BTW, I think we have the best healthcare on the planet and yes, people that can afford it, flock to the US. Even I know they're not coming for pharmaceuticals

 

[thoughtone]

Thought, all you could gather from that article was a wack-azz joke? What about the link from the Cato Institute's handbook for Policy changes, it was a lot of informative info in there talking about how the policy makers created this mess, which supports all my claims.

I responded with that because that sums up the rhetoric against heath care reform. The Cato institute is a source, yes. A so called libertarian Think Tank that in my opinion is at times more extreme than the Heritage Foundation. They believe everything should be privatized. They were among the first to back the privatization of state toll roads in the US. Have you seen the price of traveling the Indiana Toll Road since it was privatized?

BTW, I think we have the best healthcare on the planet and yes, people that can afford it, flock to the US. Even I know they're not coming for pharmaceuticals

I think we have the best healthcare on the planet

Base on what? Access, life span, costs, total amount of population covered? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

and yes, people that can afford it,

Yes people are coming here to get boob jobs, nose jobs and tummy tucks. Cosmetic surgery is some thing that we have plenty of. And that is a hell of a conclusion, “people that can afford it.” If you could afford it you would have your own private doctor on hand to administer drugs to you when you requested them, oh, that was Michael Jackson and you see what his money did for him!

 

[QueEx]

I'm curious. Are the statements in your post above yours, or someone else's ? ? ?

QueEx

I'm afraid I don't understand. Is this some type of 'trick' question

You're killing me.

No. I simply wanted to know whether the statements and conclusions in your post were yours, or whether they were someone else's. Thats straight forward, isn't it?

If they were someone else's, you should have provided the link, that way, I and anyone else could go to the source. If they are your words, and someone refutes or distinguishes them, you don't get to say you were just posting what someone else said.

Thats all.

QueEx

 

[Lamarr]

I responded with that because that sums up the rhetoric against heath care reform. The Cato institute is a source, yes. A so called libertarian Think Tank that in my opinion is at times more extreme than the Heritage Foundation. They believe everything should be privatized. They were among the first to back the privatization of state toll roads in the US. Have you seen the price of traveling the Indiana Toll Road since it was privatized?

So you have a pre-disposition about the Cato Institute without exploring what they had to say in regards to health care? What about Mary Ruwart, who is an 'insider' in the pharmacuetical industry? What about alternative medicines? This is a heavy debate and I'd like to explore all choices. All in all, you know I'm consistent and I'm on the side of freedom. And No, I don't know their stance on the roads, I need to research that

[/QUOTE]

 

[Lamarr]

You're killing me.

No. I simply wanted to know whether the statements and conclusions in your post were yours, or whether they were someone else's. Thats straight forward, isn't it?

Thats all.

QueEx

Let me just say I recognize your "gift" for wordplay. So I'm kinda cautious ever since Thought's "loaded" question a couple weeks ago..................we don't have to bring that up again

 

[thoughtone]

So you have a pre-disposition about the Cato Institute without exploring what they had to say in regards to health care? What about Mary Ruwart, who is an 'insider' in the pharmacuetical industry? What about alternative medicines? This is a heavy debate and I'd like to explore all choices. All in all, you know I'm consistent and I'm on the side of freedom. And No, I don't know their stance on the roads, I need to research that

[/QUOTE]

No pre-disposition about the Cato Institute. I listen to several radio programs and they have had several reps from Cato laying out where they are and what they want to do about health care reform as well as other topics. Ironically they had little to say about health care reform until recently when they knew something was going to get done either way. Their view is like yours, in short, if you have it and can afford the best great, if not, fuck you, you are on your own!

 

[thoughtone]

Let me just say I recognize your "gift" for wordplay. So I'm kinda cautious ever since Thought's "loaded" question a couple weeks ago..................we don't have to bring that up again

Ha, now it's my fault! Just speak your piece. Your issue is you try to appear objective, but as you said, you learned from the Hannity board.