Your Commander and Chief...what do you do about Iraq...?

[illdog]

The situation is pretty complex but, lets keep it simple...

 

[QueEx]

Interesting poll. I like your second alternative. Nos. 3 and 4 seem unreasonable to me. I just can't see how (as in No. 3) you just up and pull out; I think Colin Powell was right (before the invasion) when he told Bush, "If you break it, you own it." The Iraqis didn't place themselves in a civil or near-civil war, we did. Training the Iraqis to take over is the minimum we owe Iraq. Humpty Dumpty may never be put back together again; but we broke it and we have to own up to it.

QueEx

P.S.

It would be intersting if each person that votes also gives his/her reasons.

`

 

[actinanass]

I say we bump up the troop levels, only because I feel that we can still make a difference over there. I have cousins over there right now, and they really don't want to leave Iraq like it is. I say TAKE OFF THE GLOVES on tactics. Right now, NOONE RESPECTS US. If we start knocking some heads around, maybe people will wake up over there.

Now, I don't believe in doing ALL the work. The Iraqis should be right along side of OUR troops when we go fuck up shit. We need the Iraqi military to know how to defend their country. Pulling out in anyway right now would be a failure.

 

[hgbdark]

I Pack It Up And Bring ThE Troops Home. I Go On National Tv And Confess That Me, Dick Cheney, And Our Oil Cronies And Haliburton Partners Cooked The Whole Wmd Story So We Could Get Rich And Change The Face Of The Middle East. Well We Did Get Rich...and We Did Change The Face Of The Middle East. But We Didnt Expect To Create The Kind Of Chaos And Destruction That Will Go On For Decades/generations....we Thought We Could Go In And Fuck Up Sadaam For Trying To Kill My Daddy And Then Be Praised As Liberators. We Forgot That The Worst Thing You Can Do Is To Get Involved In Another Families Mess Cause They Are 'all' Gonna Turn Around And Whip My Ass When The Shit Is Over. We Fucked Up And Didnt Understand The Dynamics Of A Centuries Old Conflict. We Know THat History Is Gonna Tear Us A New Asshole When All Of The Facts Come Out. We Deceived Colin Powell And He Told On Us.we Deceived Condi And Her Power Hungry Ass Went Aong With The Program Like A Good Little Negress.we Are Sorry America And Like Freda Payne Once Said..we Are Bringing The Boys Home!!!!!

 

[modified]

I voted for gradual withdrawal it makes the most amount of people happy. At the rate were going it will be a 15+ year war with no discernible outcome other than chaos. This seems similar to the war on drugs the ability to make a difference but unable to due to unseen conflicts of interest. The cycle of violence continues. The US imo should stop playing referee and let them handle the situation and find a true winner. The US can protect their strategic interest and we'll deal with whomever is left. You can't make everyone happy no matter how hard you try and you won't stop the killing.

Going a little deeper yeah I know. There are a lot of ways to look at the situation and understand our involvement in it. Think about china's growing influence in money(makes everything)/military(shot down satellite) could the US continued involvement be a cover to fund new strategic projects to circumvent China or even Europe?

Could the US be using Iraq solely as a new Base to prevent Iran from developing Nukes to attack Israel and encouraging compliance in the region?

Could the Oil[one of the largest reserve's??] be the reason why we continue to try and find a "simple" solution to a complex problem of security/stability?

Could this war be a way to further shrink and privatize the social services we've been accustomed to for many years? [Reduction in money for Highway projects, and other infrastructure/technology upgrades for the US]

I stand by my original decision but would like to know other's take on the orig question taking all these things into account.

 

[dacrazydeafdawg]

shyt...i would gradually withdraw.... why if we bailed the fuck out ... think what the fuck happen to us in vietnam....

second i see shyt hasnt change since vietnam.. i am not a veteran but just a histroy bluff.

u cant expect our troops which are trained for conventional warfare to do battle in a civil war torn country.

bush fucked up... didnt we invade the county to get them wod?? then to set the iraqi free?? hell them sunni mofo dont get along we cant expect everybody to be like the good ole usa where ebony and ivory coexist in perfect harmony and the latino are being treated like the black folks were in the 60's...

shyt...case in point these insurgents are terrorrists. they dont after the miltary they just want to blow up the mofo they cant stand.. shyt if u ask me that is genocide and on some nazi shyt.... hell i rather send our troops to africa where they been in some damn civil wars forever!!!

but the thing is only the seals elite special forces us rangers and jack bauer are equipped to do battle against the insurgents not the troops them mofo are more trained ... but i hate to say this but too many lifes being wasted to roadside bombing.. last i check they didnt train u to check for roadside bomb in boot camp?

sending more troops isnt going to alleviate the problem it just like sending a needle in a haystack... the iraqi army and po po gonna need to handle it themselves

i vote to gradually to withdraw in stages...let our allies withdraw now...because if we fuck up and too prideful to admit it that a damn shame... but last i check nixon/ford wasnt too prideful when we left sagion.

some day we win a battle some day we lose but to prolong a needless war is bullshyt

rumfield fucked up because he an asshole who nothing but a con man that operates on smoke and mirrors

too many young bloods wasted for bs.. i understand the 9/11 thangy but sadam didnt order the hit on the twin towers and pentagon... osama bin linden did.... we should gone 50,000 deep on that mofo... and the fuck up thing is they dont know if he dead or not

as far as a war.. it was over as soon we touchdown in baghad.. h ow come the mofo didnt have the common sense to withdraw as soon the new government went up... i swear we aint no damn babysitters... grow up and get some balls i wanna go back home and watch the super bowl with my boys from the hood burbs or whatever

but seriously this is the 21st century... the games has change and the rules of engagement is different

our generals need to raise up and change up.... general macarthur.. patton...and even the admirals and all the gr eat soilders of the past would disagree with the way shyt is going.. hell even julius casear wouldnt be in iraq that damn long

personally i think iran and north korea and china are the biggest enemies of the usa

russia about to do an about face and go back to the cold war...


war isnt glamorous but does this war has a purpose?

hell fucking no!!!

hell no we wont go!

an immediate withdrawal would sum it up to an of cowardice and defeat
an gradual withdrawal means we did what we have to do now yall mofo on your own.

just let us have a base on the border of iran and we be straight lol

 

[hgbdark]

i'll offer thes last few comments and leave this subject alone. the fact is that we had/have no business in iraq in the first place. the bush administration continues to play upon the sympathies of decent americans by playing 'the support the troops card' when the fact is that every young american who dies in thisbullshit war should haunt bush for all eternity. we can stay there for another 5 years and the only result wll be more dead soldiers. our own military is now stepping up and telling the truth that this is not a war we can win. that is a fact because we supposedly went there to disarm sadaam only to find that he didnt have anything to be disarmed from. 'we' created this shit war and gave militant islamist around the world a battleground that didnt exist. if someone-anyone can tell me how we can 'win' this war in a county that doesnt want us there anyway,with troops who dont want to fight a war so much as they do kill there religous enemies, with a country torn apart by religious separtism and bigotry....i'll shut the fuck up and not say another word. i saw vietnam up close and although there are fundamental differences between that conflict and this.the similarities are startling.we can win..most wars are fought over land,territiory and shit........and when this is all said and done nothing, absolutely nothing will have been accplished except the complete and utter destabilization of the entire middle east. bush has set into motion forces that will not be quieted for decades and for one more american to die is senseless. its easy for people to talk about spending a little more time fighting and training the iraquis, but the fact is that you could do this shit for ten more years and the results would be the same. leave that hell hole and bring our troops home............

 

[NnubianN]

Check it if Bush Sr had done the job the first time there'd be no need to be up in there this time. Back in '91 the Coalition Forces had driven Saddam from Kuwait, wiped out his Air Force, his Ground Force and their fighting spirit. All that was left btn our forces and Bagdad was a retreating Republican Guard who didn't have a chance. But the other Arab members of the Coalition would've withdrawn their support if America took out Saddam so we backed down and created No Fly Zones. That left Saddam free to continue killing Khurds and keeping an oppressive thumb on Iraq.

Bush Jr fucked up when he didn't deploy enough troops and support to hold Iraq once we took it. For whatever wrong reason we went in there, WE WENT IN THERE! To pull out now shows the rest of the world that America has no stomach for a protracted war, NO MATTER HOW WRONG WE WERE for invading in the first place! I hate Hillary Clinton. The bitch leans whichever way the opinion polls blow. She's now against the war and wants our troops home tomorrow. Bitch! If we pull out before securing Iraq, running away with our guns dragging on the ground, the NEXT war we fight will be on US soil! Running away will embolden China against Taiwan. Slinking out of Iraq will tell Russian President Vladamir Putin that we are wimps and he can step up his campaign to regain lost ground during the Cold War. It'll tell Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that Iraq is his for the plucking. We'll lose face and credibility all around the world which will embolden the European Union to be more aggressive against our economic holdings around the world, especially if a Hillary Clinton is elected in '08, the weak bitch! Pull out of Iraq now and America will be able to count the years on two hands that she will remain a dominant power in the world. No matter how much we as Blacks despise the white political and economic structure that combines to hold us in check, we live in this country and what affects America affects us. WE MUST STAY AND FIGHT AND WIN!

 

[max-dawg]

i think by now that MOST people, with any comprehension of global economics, can NOW understand that we're fighting to save our economy... aka the "petro-dollar."

there was a recent meeting on the euro in europe because it had gotten TOO strong against the dollar and british pound.

saddam was HUNG for his decision to trade oil based on the euro.
iran is being vilified right now for their decision to do the same back in april 06... and they are STILL defying the WORLD by continuing to do so.

meanwhile, our economy is basically on pins & needles until this shit pans out... and if it takes war, there's gonna be war cause whitey ain't fixing to lose his one true love = $$$.

this shit is SUPER complex because there are GLOBAL implications for ALL involved... from norway to nigeria... venezuela to canada... saudi arabia to wall street.

 

[S_a_b_o_q]

Manifest Destiny

I feel the true plan is to have as many american G.I.'s impregnate as many Iraq woman as possible.

You have to look three generation down the road for my theory to make sense.

Also

America needs to bomb the fuck out of Iran

Fuckers going to say

I ran away when America nuked Tehran

 

[Solar7]

i think by now that MOST people, with any comprehension of global economics, can NOW understand that we're fighting to save our economy... aka the "petro-dollar."

there was a recent meeting on the euro in europe because it had gotten TOO strong against the dollar and british pound....this shit is SUPER complex because there are GLOBAL implications for ALL involved... from norway to nigeria... venezuela to canada... saudi arabia to wall street.

It has been and always be about positioning...the dollar dressed as democracy, which are the same. It was a trip a year and a half or so when the euro states voted down a euro constitution of sorts that would have ripped the shit out of the US economy...the dollar would been the same a waste paper over there. Anyway...I say pull them out eventually, but continue to fund the shit out of thier economy, and drop in a few US based companies.

Now, the better question is what will the US participation/occupation in Africa do? The US will be based in Germany until a location can be established (I see Liberia). There are two "good" reasons for the Africa role...China is contributing to African economies with very little strings attached, and oh yeah, there is oil there...

 

[slim3406]

I've experienced the political side of Iraq and its not a pretty sight. If we decide to stay the long term we will probably be involved in this tug of war for years to come.

If we decide to gradually leave they will finish each other off once we leave.

If we decide to leave all a sudden the country will be doomed because IRAN will probably invade them because they are un-experienced soldiers and police.

I suggest we build a DMZ like Korea and seperate them. Let them build their own defenses and have theyre own negotiations sometime in the future. Keep a minimum U.N. force to train and protect the neutral side.

 

[Makkonnen]

none of the above

I'd assemble the leaders/reps of all factions - sunni, shia, kurds, terrorist groups. Come to an agreement about how things should proceed including letting IRAQIs rebuild Iraq. Phased withdrawal as Iraqis take over.

Right now Iraqis have
no clean water
4 hours of electricity
no safety

At the table for the meeting of all factions would be league of arab nations rep, syrian rep, iranian rep and a un rep.

Remember how diplomacy used to work when retards trying to wring the dollars out of everything werent at the wheel?

 

[The Black HHH]

The US fucked their country up.... only solution is to get the fuck out and pay them reparations.
They have no power, water, no security. They don't even have access to their fuel.
The US has killed over 100,000 civilians, there is no military there. Incited a civil war, destabilized an entire region, and convinced other nations that the only way to protect themselves from the US is to get nukes (see N. Korea)

 

[histick]

If I were Commander in Chief, Iraq never would of happened. I would of allocated resources to fight against terrorist groups but not in such a broad military scale. None of those resources would of gone to Iraq.

I have already stated my feeling regarding the war but I will mention a few of them again.

-An insecure border with Mexico poses a bigger national security threat than any middle eastern terrorist group can muster.

-$400 billion dollars used for war, of which much has gone to waste or has been squandered, could of been used to change the way we use energy. More specificly, gasoline used by vehicles. This would of given the U.S. more leverage in dealing with oil producing countries which routinely butt heads with the U.S. Venezuela comes to mind.

-Ignoring the working middle class in lieu of increasing the wealth of the already wealthy is not building an economy. Clinton and Bush both failed in securing the economy in the U.S. Our economic strength on a global scale is weakening: our dollar is quickly becoming trash, our products are inferior, and our work ethic and ethics in general could be questioned as a country.

If were Commander in Chief, my foot would be up America's and Mexico's ass not Iraq's. Honestly, invading Mexico would of made more sense than Iraq. Why worry about oil half around the country when there is a nice supply down south? I don't the U.N. would give a fuck about South America.

 

[Mello Mello]

B
U
M
P

 

[Spectrum]

i think by now that MOST people, with any comprehension of global economics, can NOW understand that we're fighting to save our economy... aka the "petro-dollar."

there was a recent meeting on the euro in europe because it had gotten TOO strong against the dollar and british pound.

saddam was HUNG for his decision to trade oil based on the euro.
iran is being vilified right now for their decision to do the same back in april 06... and they are STILL defying the WORLD by continuing to do so.

meanwhile, our economy is basically on pins & needles until this shit pans out... and if it takes war, there's gonna be war cause whitey ain't fixing to lose his one true love = $$$.

this shit is SUPER complex because there are GLOBAL implications for ALL involved... from norway to nigeria... venezuela to canada... saudi arabia to wall street.

Exactly. Max-Dawg.. read this post I made years ago on the old board after I came back from Iraq. I was on the first non-military flight from Jordan to Baghdad in.Oct 2003

I'm posting this in response the the Iraq-bin ladin connection article i read today...Really to make a point why that is irrelevent anyway. I think it is sad the people really don't understand why we ever went there in the first place. There are many important events that effect our everday lives that people just have little understanding of. Most people don't understand how the Patriot Act(s), HOmeland Security acts, etc effect our everyday lives and are a drastic invasion of privacy and UNCONSTITUTIONAL. They only got passed because of the Chaos of the 9/11 and the war on "Terrorism"...but i digress. I hope this stimulates some nice conversation.

...but I think people really need to understand what this was all about. . I've been to Iraq and seen this first hand and I wasn't on a military assisgnment. I speak Arabic and went with an Iraqi Chaldean delegation..met with Brehmer's administration, other senators that were there and the whole nine yards. I was there in October and November. If you have more interest about what I saw..ask questions because I saw some interesting things...like when they bombed Wolfiwitz's hotel. It was across the Babylon river ..across from their hotel.I stayed at the Babylon Hotel. I went to old fedayeen camps..even ate at Saddam's favorite restaurant where he would do under the table oil deals with the French government...seen some interesting things. I left right before it got really out of control with the car bombings, etc.

This war in iraq was effectively about Oil and its impeding effect on the world's economy.(peak oil...read www.peakoil.org to learn more. But not for the reasons that people would think.This isn't about greedy corporations. It is much more serious than that. It is about Oil and the Euro.Without getting into a dissertation about the alarming U.S. national debt(12 trillion), the growing budget deficit, our growing consumption of oil, and the world's twindling supply of oil reserves, and the fact that all oil trading is done with the U.S. dollar, I can still l make a point that should be easily understood.

The world's reserve currency is the U.S. dollar. The U.S. is bankrupt but because the world currency is the U.S dollar and we have the printing press with the federal reserves..we can essentially print money at will in our currency and float it in the market to buy goods like Oil. We can create "fiat money" out of thin air because the world's reserve currency is our currency and we have a monopoly on its production. The world is pretty much financing our country. With the shrinking oil supply( search for peak oil), the fact the Iraq went to the euro to take payments and other countries were considering it( it would DEMOLISH our country)..If they convinced opec and other countries, which was happening, to go to the euro, our u.s. dollar is no longer the worlds reserve currency, the dollar would disastrously plummet as people would convert their U.S.dollars to Euros and convert their securities as well to Euro based securities..and because we are essentially a debtor nation and bankrupt and we don't have a printing press on euro. We could not buy oil.

We don't have the money. We just print fiat money through the federal reserve system (create from Jeckyll Isle) to finance everything. With our 12 trillion in debt, huge oil appetite, etc etc...you are talking about making the great depression look like disneyland(for a case study on what happens when you can't buy oil..look at what happened to north korea). Essentially we would have to announce bankrupty because of our oil appetite and our astronomical debt load which we will essentially never be able to repay anyway(but the position of the U.S. dollars is the only thing that keep us afloat..we haven't been the worlds economic superpower for quite some time..it is a world economy)..the country would come to standstill from inflation and increased interests rates because of high oil prices..We would go into insolvency.Iraq has the second largest proven oil reserves and was venerable because of Saddam. We had to stop him from taking transactions on the euro and convincing other countries to do so. Opec would love nothing more than to convert to the Euro. Every dollar they receive and store in U.S. currency continues to lose a tremendous amount of value because of the continuous drag of the U.S. dollar. However, no one has the power to go against the will of our military. Challengers only have to think of Saddam as an illustration of our will if it goes unopposed. The U.S.(neo conservs are in power) could give two shits about Saddam and his internal politics, disastrous human rights policy, weapons of mass destruction ( he is one of many of dictactors with the same record). Saddam was strategic to a movement that has a belief in the statement "the ends justifies the means". . This administration and the neoconservatives are all student of Nikkolo Machievelli, the man who penned the phrase. Only need to know his history to understand the type of element that is currently in power. These statements aren't speculation but verifiable facts. To understand the elements of the current policy in regards to Iraq is to see that this war was inevitable and planned by this administration. 9/11 was the disaster that the needed to implement this plan under the tag of a war against "terrorism". To understand the goal of this administration is to understand what our policy will be in Iraq and in the middle east in general and for Israel in general. One can easily determine what will happen and why...makes it very easy to understand why we picked a character like Chalibi for leadership and one doesn't need to media to understand why he has been disenfranchised.

So the reasons why we are in Iraq:

1. If the world began using the Euro to trade in oil our country would lose economic control and Saddam was pushing this.
2. Iraq has the worlds second largest oil reserves in the new era of PEAK OIL (you can do a search on google to learn about this monumental event in the world's history.
3. We needed to have a democratic government in the heart of this part of the world because of the coming world's oil crisis.

This is about the survival of America as the World's SUPERPOWER. That is what these people want to remain.

There was NO CONNECTION between 9/11 and Iraq. There we NO weapons of mass destruction. WE KNEW this and just used it as an excuse to invade Iraq. We needed the world trade center bombing to do this.

Someone asked my with knowing that the U.S. ecomony was crashing and I was president and Iraq was the solution..would I have made the war on Iraq? My response was this:This is my issue with going to War though it may end being something that almost seemed necessary.

I don't believe that the ends justifies the mean..i.e...you can't be immoral in the name of morality..that constitutes a contradiction of terms. Contradictions don't exist. If you check one of your premises you will find that one of them is wrong, but that is a philophical argument.

But no. The problem is with our ever growing state of our mixed economy. We are moving more away from capitalism and more towards fascism. Iraq just buys time.

Going to Iraq is like trying to cure a dying tree by examining the leaves. You need to examine the roots. Our problem is the lose of value of the U.S. dollar. We need to get off the unconstitutional quasi public-private institution of the Federal Reserve System. It is the #1 problem with our economy and has contributed nothing bury us in debt from the day of its inception. It is virus that will lead to our death. We need to have government issued currency. Government issued currency was our constitution right. If you don't understand the nature of the federal reserve, you should do some research.


Number 2...cut the increasing government spending deficit. Again, the only way this is possible because we have access to unlimited fiat money through the federal reserve.

Begin to clean the system of non essential government instituations that are rooted in socialism. Essentially everything began with Hoover and then extended with Nixon. Our government is drastically oversized.

Place economists in the key positions that are educated in Austrian economists(especially that of Ludwig von Mises). Our country has been lead astray by Keynesians.

The U.S. hasn't been the world economic power for quite sometime now. It is a world economy, with Europe and now India becoming very strong because it is a knowledge center. Someone mentioned China being a power to be watched. The Yen is undervalued now, but china faces HUGE problems moving forward..i.e..it has over 1 billion people, but only 1.2 million have college educations, privatization issues, etc.

But, Iraq is not a solution. We still don't know how that situation will play out. Iraq will NEVER be a democracy..NEVER. at best it will be a Republic. However, at this point, we don't know if we can accomplish our puppet government so it may all have been for nothing.

 

[BadKredyt]

Voted for the Troop levels.

I think this whole Iraq thing is the closest example of nation building our generation has ever witnessed (I'm 30). You begin to really see how money and guns shapes the world. Pulling our troops out will leave a void of both. At that point it becomes open season on a lucrative section of the world, and that’s not in the best interests of my kids.

To allow political, cultural, financial, or military influences other then our own to saturate that region, will create another enemy of our state. I fully believe that. The policies of the people fighting in that region do not emulate ours in anyway. So while that is a case for leaving, it is also the case for staying. The Viet Cong didn't want to take over the world, they just wanted Vietnam. The resources found in the oil in the Middle East instantly make any regime who governs it, a player in international affairs. And when it comes to that, if you can be choosy about you sits at the big table, you do that.

Now, I'm no advocate for staying forever. Another 10 years, and we'll end up like the USSR, broke and fighting over seceding states. But we cannot take the posture of even a slowly withdrawing force, because that will only give those who plan to strike a date to do so. It, like most things, IS a numbers game. And if 20k, or even 50k more soldiers will allow there to be such a stifling presence on the streets of Baghdad that a mouse can't shit without permission, then that is what we need. We've got to train up the military, the police, and the people, to take matters into their own hands in ways WE consider civilized. The infrastructure necessary to combat the corruption needs to be in place. Until a street level policeman can call his superior and rat out a coworker/insurgent, and not have his house and family bombed, we've got a job to do.

With that said, I'm not a Bush baby. We shouldn't be there in the first place. But, 3000 soldiers, in 4 years is, by military standards a walk in the park. I don’t want to be there forever, but at this point, I think turning up the heat by saturating the area with a suffocating presence is our best plan for making anything we deem positive come out of this.

Don't forget, should we leave, not only would a civil war that will last forever replace our presence, but an entire generation of gangster killing ass military minded youngins will grow up and be taught that the Americans did this to his country and his people. Now, we might not have an immediate issue with whoever takes power over there, as it will take time for whoever gets the keys to really get things rolling. But in time, most likely the time of my old age, and my children’s prime, the repercussions will be felt. And all these old pricks that caused all this shit will be dead and gone.

Just how they planned it.

 

[hgbdark]

bush jr. was playing games attempting to secure a legacy for his clan other than 911 an his daddy's failed policies. his gamble failed and he has upset the world order. sadaam's murderous ass kept the balance of power in the middle east in check and now that he is gone they are running amok. he was a shithead, but so are dozens of other despots in the region. we got enough shit to worry about and now that we are pre-occupied with this shit china and north korea are revving their engines. it's easy to talk about only 3000 amercan casualties, but dont forget the wounded and the countless 1000's of iraquis who have died..their lives have value too. i am a student of history and it will take a decadeor so before the ';truth' actually is revealed and bush will then be listed in the ranks of the worst president inamerican history. what is happening today will haunt america for generations and you can take that to the bank.

 

[nittie]

1. Withdraw from the cities,
2. Build bases on the perimeter
3. Observe what happens
4. Let the Iraqi army stand on their own
5. Put every family on welfare
6. Give every single man a govt. job
7. Let capitalism do it's job

 

[badmutherfukr]

As a u.s. soldier i must support the chain of command. Iraq is very touchy subject. The current situation in iraq we have to insure stability with training of iraqi security forces. Until they can maintain the country and curtail the sectarian violence we will remain. If we pull our forces out the country will fall apart. We are still facing opposition in afghanistan with the tailban. We cannot look to engage iran....too many fronts

 

[Chitownheadbusa]

As a u.s. soldier i must support the chain of command. Iraq is very touchy subject. The current situation in iraq we have to insure stability with training of iraqi security forces. Until they can maintain the country and curtail the sectarian violence we will remain. If we pull our forces out the country will fall apart. We are still facing opposition in afghanistan with the tailban. We cannot look to engage iran....too many fronts

Did you play in that Manchurian Candidate movie?

 

[NnubianN]

Over 3000 dead since declaring war on Afghanistan, 23,000 injured, many crippled for life. Terrible numbers. Let's do a comparison. In Viet Nam, another unpopular war, 57,000 Americans died between 1963 and 1975. 140,000 died between 1950 and '53 and over 400,000 during the 4 year period of World War 2. Americans can't stand to see its men and women dying and when the media gives an update every day of how many died it seems more horrible than it is. War isn't a game of tidily winks. People die.

eewwll put things in perspective with his views/facts stating the probable reasons for this conflict and it seems he's against us being there. I'm against us being there too but we are there because the citizens of the United States failed to stand up to the policy makers years before all this came about. Be it ignorance or whatever reason, we are in this debt-ridden, fake money making situation and now it's too late to stop the bus from rolling downhill so we might as well strap ourselves in and look out the window. The numbers seem to add up. The national debt is closer to 9 trillion than 12 but that's still a horrific figure. The world of economics is run on dollars so if the currency were to be switched we'd be fucked. Add to this a jerk sitting atop one of the largest oil reserves in the world who wants to change up the money...well if you saw your house about to be burned to the ground what would you do? And like it or not, with all the fucked up policies and greedy bastards running our country into the ground, when our very existance (not just Peckerwood Pete but Sammy Spearchucker too) is being threatened what would you do? Storm the White House and hand Bush over to the UN War Crimes Unit? What EXACTLY can we do to change the WHOLE SCOPE, not just Iraq? As long as our economic plight is tied to our outstanding debt and need for oil not very much. Fight on America...fight on.

 

[histick]

As a u.s. soldier i must support the chain of command. Iraq is very touchy subject. The current situation in iraq we have to insure stability with training of iraqi security forces. Until they can maintain the country and curtail the sectarian violence we will remain. If we pull our forces out the country will fall apart. We are still facing opposition in afghanistan with the tailban. We cannot look to engage iran....too many fronts

Thank you for serving in our military. I am prior service myself. 54B then 31U in a light infantry unit.

I think what you and many others need to understand is that from an economic standpoint, Iraq is the fool's answer to strengthening our economy. A fool's answer which only serves to increase the wealth of a minor portion of our economy. More than anything it is just a cockblock manuever to make sure other countries life Iran do have influence over Iraq.

Imagine that Iraq, by the end of the year, was a peaceful and stable country. We do business with them and all is great. Who benefits from this? Most of you will not aside from stable gas prices at the pump. Unless you are near the top of corporation doing business with a new stable Iraq, you get nothing out of it.

Intelligent people in office would of, instead of wage war in Iraq, kicked our country's ass into third gear and push our economy forward. Intelligent people are a very scarce commodity and much more important than oil to the United States.

BTW I just read an article that the majority of Black voters support Clinton as the leading Democratic canidate. I hope that article is false. This country does not need another Clinton in office especially during these critical times.

 

[KingFlip]

this is good..

 

[QueEx]

I agree, it is good - no matter which side the comments come down on.

QueEx

 

[$pooky]

Manifest Destiny

I feel the true plan is to have as many american G.I.'s impregnate as many Iraq woman as possible.

That's real there.

 

[Jam_Jam]

The posts by eewwll and max-dawg hit the nail on the head. This is a war about economics. The American dollar is rapidly losing its value. Saddam was trading oil with the Euro and so is Iran. War with Iran is inevitable. We can also expect some future turmoil with Venezuela. A lot of people hate the war, as do I. It's beyond repulsive the human suffering that has to take place in order for the earth to continue on its axis as America knows it. This war is not about fighting for our safey, it is about fighting for our way of life. People say that President Bush is the right man at the right time and they are correct. Clinton could not have done what Bush is doing. You have to be a certain type of person to condone war and death to justify your means on such a massive scale. It's almost as if you have to sell your soul to the devil to run this country. Innocent people have died and will continue to die so that America can continue to relish in the glory of her rightful position as a world superpower. If you go Europe today, you will be paying over $6 U.S. dollars for a can of coke. We are living in desperate times and we reap what we sow. As far as Iraq goes, we will leave there..........when every drop of oil has been harvested from that land. Until then, sit back, relax and watch evil continue to wreak havoc over God's lands. Cornel West said it best. "America will fall, lets hope it doesn't happen on our watch."

 

[nittie]

Whether we agree with the war or not over 3000 Americans died on 9-11. Islamic terrorist hijacked American airliners and flew them into our buildings, killed our people and almost ruined our economy. It's clear Bush manipulated the facts for war but what was the alternative. America can't allow extremist to do whatever they want to and get away with a slap on the wrist. Besides Bush had overwhelming support for invading Iraq. His performance during the war is inexcusable, our troops deserve better, but if this country doesn't show strength and resolve against Islamist this country can end up in the same position Russia is in today, a former superpower.

 

[QueEx]

Whether we agree with the war or not over 3000 Americans died on 9-11. Islamic terrorist hijacked American airliners and flew them into our buildings, killed our people and almost ruined our economy. It's clear Bush manipulated the facts for war but what was the alternative. America can't allow extremist to do whatever they want to and get away with a slap on the wrist. Besides Bush had overwhelming support for invading Iraq. His performance during the war is inexcusable, our troops deserve better, but if this country doesn't show strength and resolve against Islamist this country can end up in the same position Russia is in today, a former superpower.

Regarding the part I highlighted in bold above: What you're saying is that the invasion of Iraq was justified, purely and simply, because of the people who died on 9-11 -- without any connection of any kind or character whatsoever, to Iraq. I agree that this country has to stand strong against "Legitimate" threats but, contrary to your view, I think the country stands quicker to fall chasing the expensive and misguided dreams of those who wish to use our precious resources, men and materiel to reshape the world in their own image and pocketbooks.

QueEx

 

[Whipes13]

ROME fell eventually,

I agree with some of the previous post above... I honestly don't think there is a right answer for Iraq. We can't leave because of pride and all out destruction and our presence there just instigates the problem. Unfortunately, this Conflict in Iraq gives Iran, and all other countries, groups and organizations in the Middle East fuel for further hatred of America for decades to come.

In the mean time, the BIGGEST threat to America (CHINA) economically and militarily is growing quickly in the shadows. I believe that we should have been and should be more focused on countering China economically. It's not in their interest to have conflict with us today. However, 10 to 20 years from now CHINA will be able to call our bluff for example by going after Taiwan and we won't have the scrotum to defend Taiwan Militarily.

 

[nittie]

Regarding the part I highlighted in bold above: What you're saying is that the invasion of Iraq was justified, purely and simply, because of the people who died on 9-11 -- without any connection of any kind or character whatsoever, to Iraq. I agree that this country has to stand strong against "Legitimate" threats but, contrary to your view, I think the country stands quicker to fall chasing the expensive and misguided dreams of those who wish to use our precious resources, men and materiel to reshape the world in their own image and pocketbooks.

My point is, after 9-11 the world is going to be shaped in either Al Qaeda's image or G.W. Bush's. I applaud Bush for having the audacity to do what no other U.S. President would do, attempt to fundamentally re-shape the Middle East, unfortunately his abilities so far haven't been as good as they should be.

 

[QueEx]

Seems to me nittie, your point is the invasion of Iraq was justified: (1) because so many people died on 9-11 despite any credible evidence, whatsoever, that Iraq had any connection with 9-11; and (2) because we needed to "re-shape the Middle East" by force. Do I have it right now ???


QueEx

 

[nittie]

Seems to me nittie, your point is the invasion of Iraq was justified: (1) because so many people died on 9-11 despite any credible evidence, whatsoever, that Iraq had any connection with 9-11; and (2) because we needed to "re-shape the Middle East" by force. Do I have it right now ???


QueEx

I'm saying 9-11 changed things. The invasion wouldn't be possible without it. Saddam's previous crimes made Iraq a viable target. There were other options, we could have stopped with outing the Taliban and focused on the Palestinian situation but Iraq was the best option for establishing democracy in the region.

 

[QueEx]

I'm saying 9-11 changed things. The invasion wouldn't be possible without it. Saddam's previous crimes made Iraq a viable target. There were other options, we could have stopped with outing the Taliban and focused on the Palestinian situation but Iraq was the best option for establishing democracy in the region.

Brother,

This has been a good thread and I don't won't to ruin it with talk about whether it was a good thing or even necessary to take Saddam out by invasion. I would suggest that it was not. Nevertheless, you could start a new thread on the subject of "whether Saddam rated an invasion" or whatever you want to call it --- but I suspect I already know 98% of the responses.

QueEx

P.S.

Reasonably people may differ on whether it Saddam rated an invasion. So, why don't you start that thread, we may both be suprised by the response.

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